By accident I learned that my municipality's building codes require that I
obtain a building permit (with payment and inspection) for the following
activities, even when they are performed by appropriately licensed contractors
or tradesmen:

1. Replacing a water heater with an identical unit
2. Installing a ceiling fan
3. Replacing an HVAC unit
4. Adding gas logs in a fireplace

Maybe I'm out of touch, but the water heater requirement seems ludicrous. It is
such a trivial matter to replace one. (I did not get a permit that last time I
replaced one since I didn't know it was required.)

On 1/24/2010 3:05 PM mcp6453 spake thus:

By accident I learned that my municipality's building codes require that I
obtain a building permit (with payment and inspection) for the following
activities, even when they are performed by appropriately licensed contractors
or tradesmen:

1. Replacing a water heater with an identical unit
2. Installing a ceiling fan
3. Replacing an HVAC unit
4. Adding gas logs in a fireplace

Maybe I'm out of touch, but the water heater requirement seems ludicrous. It is
such a trivial matter to replace one. (I did not get a permit that last time I
replaced one since I didn't know it was required.)

Easy solution: just replace it and don't tell anyone about it. What they
don't know can't hurt you. (This works in all cases except those where
an inspector is likely to be on the premises, like during a remodel, and
may spot the new heater or fireplace.)

That's what everyone else I know does.


--
You were wrong, and I'm man enough to admit it.

- a Usenet "apology"

"mcp6453" wrote in message
...
By accident I learned that my municipality's building codes require that I
obtain a building permit (with payment and inspection) for the following
activities, even when they are performed by appropriately licensed
contractors
or tradesmen:

1. Replacing a water heater with an identical unit
2. Installing a ceiling fan
3. Replacing an HVAC unit
4. Adding gas logs in a fireplace

Maybe I'm out of touch, but the water heater requirement seems ludicrous.
It is
such a trivial matter to replace one. (I did not get a permit that last
time I
replaced one since I didn't know it was required.)

Mostly it is just a source of revenue for them.

You and I do disagree though. The potential to screw up a water heater
install would be the greater risk.

How many have I seen without a proper pop off discharge. To cold to take my
shoes off and continue the count.

Colbyt

On Jan 24, 5:05*pm, mcp6453 wrote:
By accident I learned that my municipality's building codes require that I
obtain a building permit (with payment and inspection) for the following
activities, even when they are performed by appropriately licensed contractors
or tradesmen:

1. Replacing a water heater with an identical unit
2. Installing a ceiling fan
3. Replacing an HVAC unit
4. Adding gas logs in a fireplace

Maybe I'm out of touch, but the water heater requirement seems ludicrous. It is
such a trivial matter to replace one. (I did not get a permit that last time I
replaced one since I didn't know it was required.)

Many codes are bs but some for a better purpose, keeping inocent folks
safe from hacks, we had a well known plumber install a water heater
and did not use screws on the exauhast pipe, it fell down years later
and they refused to fix it. Ive heard of alot of stories like roofing,
boilers, furnaces, that were done be hacks and the home owner was
screwed. For many jobs they are great and you dont pay until its
inspected, often the inspector saves you money in the long run finding
faults. My ACs 120v wires shake in the conduit on startup, I bet an
inspector would have made them use the proper gauge wiring, I mean I
can hear them rattle when the condensor kicks in, I should have gotten
a permit, the insstaler said it was fine.

mcp6453 wrote:
By accident I learned that my municipality's building codes require that I
obtain a building permit (with payment and inspection) for the following
activities, even when they are performed by appropriately licensed contractors
or tradesmen:

1. Replacing a water heater with an identical unit
2. Installing a ceiling fan
3. Replacing an HVAC unit
4. Adding gas logs in a fireplace

Maybe I'm out of touch, but the water heater requirement seems ludicrous. It is
such a trivial matter to replace one. (I did not get a permit that last time I
replaced one since I didn't know it was required.)

I would think that installing a ceiling fan is even easier, but then
again, I tend to be more comfortable with electricity than with gas.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On 1/24/2010 16:28, Nate Nagel wrote:

I would think that installing a ceiling fan is even easier, but then
again, I tend to be more comfortable with electricity than with gas.

The electrical connection is just one of the potential safety risks when
installing a ceiling fan. It must be attached to the structure more
securely than a standard lighting fixture, and there must be adequate
head clearance.

Bob wrote:
On 1/24/2010 16:28, Nate Nagel wrote:

I would think that installing a ceiling fan is even easier, but then
again, I tend to be more comfortable with electricity than with gas.

The electrical connection is just one of the potential safety risks when
installing a ceiling fan. It must be attached to the structure more
securely than a standard lighting fixture, and there must be adequate
head clearance.

Well, sure, but it ain't rocket surgery. I mean, even the guys at That
Orange Colored Store can point you directly towards the fan-rated
ceiling boxes, and if you're dumb enough to put a ceiling fan on a 7
foot ceiling...

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On Jan 24, 7:28*pm, Nate Nagel wrote:
mcp6453 wrote:
By accident I learned that my municipality's building codes require that I
obtain a building permit (with payment and inspection) for the following
activities, even when they are performed by appropriately licensed contractors
or tradesmen:

1. Replacing a water heater with an identical unit
2. Installing a ceiling fan
3. Replacing an HVAC unit
4. Adding gas logs in a fireplace

Maybe I'm out of touch, but the water heater requirement seems ludicrous. It is
such a trivial matter to replace one. (I did not get a permit that last time I
replaced one since I didn't know it was required.)

I would think that installing a ceiling fan is even easier, but then
again, I tend to be more comfortable with electricity than with gas.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Because the ceiling fan is heavy and because it vibrates at it moves
installing it should be left to someone who knows what they are doing.
It is worth the money imo to have it inspected as well. You do not
want it to come crashing
down on-top of anyone or anything.
Small price to pay for a piece of mind.

On 1/24/2010 16:53, Nate Nagel wrote in response to a discussion
regarding the requirement for a building permit to install a ceiling fan:

Well, sure, but it ain't rocket surgery. I mean, even the guys at That
Orange Colored Store can point you directly towards the fan-rated
ceiling boxes, and if you're dumb enough to put a ceiling fan on a 7
foot ceiling...

Most likely, someone complained to city hall after visiting a shorter
person's home and getting clubbed by a fan. Then the town saw another
revenue source and the rest is history.

On Jan 24, 6:05*pm, mcp6453 wrote:
By accident I learned that my municipality's building codes require that I
obtain a building permit (with payment and inspection) for the following
activities, even when they are performed by appropriately licensed contractors
or tradesmen:

1. Replacing a water heater with an identical unit
2. Installing a ceiling fan
3. Replacing an HVAC unit
4. Adding gas logs in a fireplace

Maybe I'm out of touch, but the water heater requirement seems ludicrous. It is
such a trivial matter to replace one. (I did not get a permit that last time I
replaced one since I didn't know it was required.)

They are probably talking about a gas water heater.

On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 19:28:27 -0500, Nate Nagel
wrote:

mcp6453 wrote:
By accident I learned that my municipality's building codes require that I
obtain a building permit (with payment and inspection) for the following
activities, even when they are performed by appropriately licensed contractors
or tradesmen:

1. Replacing a water heater with an identical unit
2. Installing a ceiling fan
3. Replacing an HVAC unit
4. Adding gas logs in a fireplace

Maybe I'm out of touch, but the water heater requirement seems ludicrous. It is
such a trivial matter to replace one. (I did not get a permit that last time I
replaced one since I didn't know it was required.)

I would think that installing a ceiling fan is even easier, but then
again, I tend to be more comfortable with electricity than with gas.

nate
But installing a 35 lb ceiling fan on a box that was designed to hold
a simple 1 lb bedroom fixture is a VERY BAD IDEA.
Hense the permit and inspection.

Not saying I think it is right.

mcp6453 wrote in
:

By accident I learned that my municipality's building codes require
that I obtain a building permit (with payment and inspection) for the
following activities, even when they are performed by appropriately
licensed contractors or tradesmen:

1. Replacing a water heater with an identical unit
2. Installing a ceiling fan
3. Replacing an HVAC unit
4. Adding gas logs in a fireplace

Maybe I'm out of touch, but the water heater requirement seems
ludicrous. It is such a trivial matter to replace one. (I did not get
a permit that last time I replaced one since I didn't know it was
required.)


1. Replacing a water heater with an identical unit.

Installing an identical gas unit identicially can be a bad install. For
instance, areas like where I am now require a new install gas water
heater to have a specific flame box if it's to sit on the floor or be on
a pedistal xx" off the ground.

Then there's the fact that some jaboni could use the wrong thread tape or
vent it goofy and kill people.

2. Installing a ceiling fan

People like to attach them to whatever box is in the ceiling be it
plastic, broken, nailed, etc. Things get nasty when it falls while
spinning on to the bed...where the baby was put for a second. Besides,
most guys don't want a ceiling fan ripping into their ass when they were
having such a good time :-)

3. Replacing an HVAC unit

Lots of room for a Bozo to do potentially deadly things with electrical
and/or gas connections. Then there's less obvious requirements such as
here where a 110 Outdoor GFCI must be within xx feet of any outdoor unit
which makes sure any service people have protected power available.

4. Adding gas logs in a fireplace

Here you have gas connections with nearby flame, inside, as well as the
potential of oxygen depletion or poisoning if sized/vented wrong.


I'm not saying a lot of inspection/permit requirements are just revenue
generation and job security. It's just that they can't just make them
required for idiots only. Some people honestly believe if they can get
something installed then it must be right.

If you are installing everything to the latest codes, then no problem, the
inspector will come over and pass everything. Then if there is a problem,
there will not be a problem with your insurance company because everything
was installed to code and passed inspection!

If something does not pass inspection, then good! The inspector will be
pointing out something you should do to make the installation safe or
protect your property from fire/flooding damage or protect the lives of the
people in your family.

That's why they have building codes in the first place. Someone dies in a
fire, a home gets flooded, a water heater explodes and causes all sorts of
damage, someone gets electrocuted, etc. Then there is public outrage to "do
something" so these tragedies will not happen again.

Well they did something, then made building codes and hired inspectors.

Water heater explodes...
http://www.seattlepi.com/local/33094_boom28.shtml

Water heater fumes kill man...
http://articles.latimes.com/1988-04-...618_1_dead-man

Electrocuted when ungrounded water heater shorted...
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...4_shock03.html

Man electrocuted when a ceiling fan fell on him...
http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/..._10062900.html

Flood-Damaged HVAC systems can cause explosions or fire...
http://www.prlog.org/10353330-floodd...s-or-fire.html

Etc., etc., etc...

P.S. My local building inspection office is *losing* money. (Costs a bit
more to operate than it brings in with fees.) It is a public service.

Homeowner handiwork examples...
(What home inspectors find....)

http://www.ashireporter.org/articles...s.aspx?id=1747

http://www.ashireporter.org/articles...s.aspx?id=1461

http://www.ashireporter.org/articles...s.aspx?id=1803

http://www.ashireporter.org/photos/t..._11/outlet.jpg

http://www.ashireporter.org/articles...es.aspx?id=537

http://www.ashireporter.org/articles...s.aspx?id=1202

http://www.ashireporter.org/articles...es.aspx?id=842

http://www.ashireporter.org/articles...s.aspx?id=1038

http://www.ashireporter.org/articles...s.aspx?id=1440

"Red Green" wrote in message
...
mcp6453 wrote in
:

By accident I learned that my municipality's building codes require
that I obtain a building permit (with payment and inspection) for the
following activities, even when they are performed by appropriately
licensed contractors or tradesmen:

1. Replacing a water heater with an identical unit
2. Installing a ceiling fan
3. Replacing an HVAC unit
4. Adding gas logs in a fireplace

Maybe I'm out of touch, but the water heater requirement seems
ludicrous. It is such a trivial matter to replace one. (I did not get
a permit that last time I replaced one since I didn't know it was
required.)


1. Replacing a water heater with an identical unit.

Installing an identical gas unit identicially can be a bad install. For
instance, areas like where I am now require a new install gas water
heater to have a specific flame box if it's to sit on the floor or be on
a pedistal xx" off the ground.

Then there's the fact that some jaboni could use the wrong thread tape or
vent it goofy and kill people.

2. Installing a ceiling fan

People like to attach them to whatever box is in the ceiling be it
plastic, broken, nailed, etc. Things get nasty when it falls while
spinning on to the bed...where the baby was put for a second. Besides,
most guys don't want a ceiling fan ripping into their ass when they were
having such a good time :-)

3. Replacing an HVAC unit

Lots of room for a Bozo to do potentially deadly things with electrical
and/or gas connections.

Aren't most of them over on alt.hvac, circle-jerking each other while
drinking beer?

A good way to tell is to offer the contractor a 6 pack for the job -- if he
accepts, he's from alt.hvac.
--
EA




Then there's less obvious requirements such as
here where a 110 Outdoor GFCI must be within xx feet of any outdoor unit
which makes sure any service people have protected power available.

4. Adding gas logs in a fireplace

Here you have gas connections with nearby flame, inside, as well as the
potential of oxygen depletion or poisoning if sized/vented wrong.


I'm not saying a lot of inspection/permit requirements are just revenue
generation and job security. It's just that they can't just make them
required for idiots only. Some people honestly believe if they can get
something installed then it must be right.

Soundhaspriority wrote in
:

wrote in message


Aren't most of them over on alt.hvac, circle-jerking each other while
drinking beer?

I'm not much of a beer drinker, but if there is going to be a circle
jerk, count me in!

"I don't really have a replacement career, it's a very gnawing thing."

Bob Morein
(215) 646-4894





count me in!

The middle?

mcp6453 wrote:
By accident I learned that my municipality's building codes require that I
obtain a building permit (with payment and inspection) for the following
activities, even when they are performed by appropriately licensed contractors
or tradesmen:

1. Replacing a water heater with an identical unit
2. Installing a ceiling fan
3. Replacing an HVAC unit
4. Adding gas logs in a fireplace

Maybe I'm out of touch, but the water heater requirement seems ludicrous. It is
such a trivial matter to replace one. (I did not get a permit that last time I
replaced one since I didn't know it was required.)

Ignorance of the law is no excuse. I'll bet you tore the tag off your
mattress too. The SWAT team is on its way to you now, don't resist or
they'll TASER you. If you are thinking of resisting with violence, just
remember, they have machine guns. We just picked up an electrical permit
for a small job we have tomorrow and I'll bet an inspector never shows up.

TDD