That unit you found, does not go with urinals.
If you use 1.6 GPF on urinal, the government
will shut you down and fine you severely.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


wrote in message
...
So I am getting my parts list together for a installation of a urinal and it
dawned on me that I could use ebay for a lot of this. This is going to go in
my man cave when everything is said and done. It is also meant to be
something of a learning project.

So I found this :

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sloan-Regal-...em27ce68 64c4

and it is cheaper by about 60% than all the others I found; nut what kind of
urinal goes with it? Can I find one for cheap?

Is this a good deal?

-Vonny

On 01-04-2013 21:19, Stormin Mormon wrote:
That unit you found, does not go with urinals.
If you use 1.6 GPF on urinal, the government
will shut you down and fine you severely.

More than that is illegal in a house, where it will be flushed three or
four time per day. To conserve water, the 3.2 GPFs are only legel in
businesses, where they get flushed twenty or more time a day.

--
Wes Groleau

UPS CURRIER SERVICE IS HERE TO SERVE YOU MORE BETTER YOUR SATISFACTION
IS OUR CONCERN
(So type your cradit card # in our website imediatley!)

Waterless urinals are an option too.
You don't flush them.

The waste just runs through a trap with a little oil

Sounds goofy but we've installed a number of these at work and they are doing fine.

The biggest problem is that some clown comes along and dumps a mop bucket, not knowing what kind of urinal it is. That washes the trap dry, and then sewer smells get out. But in your own mancave you can control that.

There's another variation we saw in German train stations. Weird looking, but effective for large crowds. Europe has very heavy passenger train usage. Basically, the wall has a sheet of water continuously flowing down, and you eliminate into the stream. here's a photo
http://www.urinal.net/dusseldorf_train_sta/

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
That unit you found, does not go with urinals.
If you use 1.6 GPF on urinal, the government
will shut you down and fine you severely.

Not sure if you're referring to residential or businesses but that's not the
case in our place of business (college campus). We use Low Flow 1.3gpf
urinals in some restrooms.

What is the reason you believe the gov will disapprove?

IMO and the opinion of our campus plumber, the waterless urinals suck.
Though, it may differ in a more controlled area as a home, the stench
eventually builds up and you are correct about the trap and water, it ruins
the entire thing. Some custodians thought they could clean the urinal and
did the same. Those traps aren't cheap.

"Meanie" wrote in message ...


IMO and the opinion of our campus plumber, the waterless urinals suck.
Though, it may differ in a more controlled area as a home, the stench
eventually builds up and you are correct about the trap and water, it
ruins the entire thing. Some custodians thought they could clean the
urinal and did the same. Those traps aren't cheap.

I remember the smell in the old men's rooms at the local drive in theaters
where the whole wall was the urinal, and it was tiled, with about two foot
of the floor tiled. They always stank. Or those hand made sheet metal
troughs found in Mexican bars.

Steve

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
That unit you found, does not go with urinals.
If you use 1.6 GPF on urinal, the government
will shut you down and fine you severely.

Probably the only person in this newsgroup who would go down and pull a
permit to put this in his own bathroom at his own house. Screw the
government. I do what I want at my house.

Most of the time, anyway.

Steve

Steve B wrote:
"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
That unit you found, does not go with urinals.
If you use 1.6 GPF on urinal, the government
will shut you down and fine you severely.

Probably the only person in this newsgroup who would go down and pull a
permit to put this in his own bathroom at his own house. Screw the
government. I do what I want at my house.

Most of the time, anyway.

Steve


Hmm,
I assume you do have house insurance?

"Tony Hwang" wrote in message
...


Steve B wrote:
"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
That unit you found, does not go with urinals.
If you use 1.6 GPF on urinal, the government
will shut you down and fine you severely.

Probably the only person in this newsgroup who would go down and pull a
permit to put this in his own bathroom at his own house. Screw the
government. I do what I want at my house.

Most of the time, anyway.

Steve


Hmm,
I assume you do have house insurance?

Your question did not go on to elaborate a point. Is there one?

This ain't my first rodeo. I have five houses in three states, four of them
income vacation properties. My wife is a CPA.

I have adequate replacement cost insurance. And all my work is done by
myself (a former contractor), or contractors or contractor grade subs. All
to code. Owner contractors are allowed to do a tremendous range of work if
they are informed, and they don't require a contractor license. But you
knew that, right?

We so far have remodeled totally our 3,000 sf + house, and only pulled a
permit to build the mother-in-law residence. Other than that, I live in an
agricultural zone in rural Utah, and permits are very lax. All electrical
by a union electrician of 37 years. Other contractors similar, chosen by
reputation , license, insurance certificate, and bid.

Had a hot water heater changed yesterday. Rheem 40 gallon heater for $550
installed. A simple install, since we put fittings instead of sweats on the
in lines, something that costs more, and cheapie homeowners and know
nothings usually sweat on because flex hoses with fittings cost a few bucks
more. All heaters and lines isolated with Whitey 90 degree valves, so that
one can fail, and we can use the other until repair, which we didn't have to
do since my contractor neighbor came over and did it all in one day. You
only have to worry about **** if you do **** work, or hire people who do
**** work and don't know that you're getting **** work.

I hear that a lot here.

Steve

On Sat, 05 Jan 2013 11:09:50 -0700, Tony Hwang wrote:



Steve B wrote:
"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
That unit you found, does not go with urinals.
If you use 1.6 GPF on urinal, the government
will shut you down and fine you severely.

Probably the only person in this newsgroup who would go down and pull a
permit to put this in his own bathroom at his own house. Screw the
government. I do what I want at my house.

Most of the time, anyway.

Steve


Hmm,
I assume you do have house insurance?

Why do you need insurance for a urinal? About the only (possible)
insurable accident I could think of would be if some drunk vomited in
the urinal, then drowned in his own vomit, face down in the urinal....
* That would likely get posted to Youtube too....

The urinals I see in stores are typically 1.0 GPF. If you hook up a 1.6
flush valve to a 1.0 urinal, you'd be wasting.

You know how our modern government regulates every thing.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Meanie" wrote in message ...

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
That unit you found, does not go with urinals.
If you use 1.6 GPF on urinal, the government
will shut you down and fine you severely.

Not sure if you're referring to residential or businesses but that's not the
case in our place of business (college campus). We use Low Flow 1.3gpf
urinals in some restrooms.

What is the reason you believe the gov will disapprove?

wrote

Why do you need insurance for a urinal? About the only (possible)
insurable accident I could think of would be if some drunk vomited in
the urinal, then drowned in his own vomit, face down in the urinal....
* That would likely get posted to Youtube too....

Wasn't there a case like that in California already?

Steve ;-)

On Fri, 4 Jan 2013 21:29:12 -0800 (PST), TimR
wrote:

Waterless urinals are an option too.
You don't flush them.

The waste just runs through a trap with a little oil

Sounds goofy but we've installed a number of these at work and they are doing fine.

The biggest problem is that some clown comes along and dumps a mop bucket, not knowing what kind of urinal it is. That washes the trap dry, and then sewer smells get out. But in your own mancave you can control that.

There's another variation we saw in German train stations. Weird looking, but effective for large crowds. Europe has very heavy passenger train usage. Basically, the wall has a sheet of water continuously flowing down, and you eliminate into the stream. here's a photo
http://www.urinal.net/dusseldorf_train_sta/

In a home? They *stink* like hell.

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
The urinals I see in stores are typically 1.0 GPF. If you hook up a 1.6
flush valve to a 1.0 urinal, you'd be wasting.

You know how our modern government regulates every thing.

Ahh, I wasn't thinking the other way. I was thinking you were indicating the
1.3 was too low. My bad.

On 01-05-2013 11:33, Meanie wrote:
IMO and the opinion of our campus plumber, the waterless urinals suck.
Though, it may differ in a more controlled area as a home, the stench
eventually builds up and you are correct about the trap and water, it ruins
the entire thing. Some custodians thought they could clean the urinal and
did the same. Those traps aren't cheap.

One installed in a restaurant near here came with a large plaque stating
that maintenance was to pour a certain amount of something into it once
per month.

The plaque has been gone for a few months, but the thing does not smell.

--
Wes Groleau

There ain't no right wing,
there ain't no left wing.
There's only you and me and we just disagree.
(apologies to Jim Krueger)

On Sat, 05 Jan 2013 22:19:01 -0500, Wes Groleau
wrote:

On 01-05-2013 11:33, Meanie wrote:
IMO and the opinion of our campus plumber, the waterless urinals suck.
Though, it may differ in a more controlled area as a home, the stench
eventually builds up and you are correct about the trap and water, it ruins
the entire thing. Some custodians thought they could clean the urinal and
did the same. Those traps aren't cheap.

One installed in a restaurant near here came with a large plaque stating
that maintenance was to pour a certain amount of something into it once
per month.

The plaque has been gone for a few months, but the thing does not smell.

We have them at work and they *stink*. They seem to have a lot of
maintenance problems, too. I'm sure they aren't saving any money,
even assuming the lie on the plaque (40,000gal/yr of water saved) were
true.

One of the limits of a text only communication network. Maybe I didn't
supply enough detail. Oh, wait, I should have flamed you, that's it. Flaming
seems to be the only communication style left on Usenet.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Meanie" wrote in message ...

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
The urinals I see in stores are typically 1.0 GPF. If you hook up a 1.6
flush valve to a 1.0 urinal, you'd be wasting.

You know how our modern government regulates every thing.

Ahh, I wasn't thinking the other way. I was thinking you were indicating the
1.3 was too low. My bad.

On 01-05-2013 23:53, wrote:
wrote:
One installed in a restaurant near here came with a large plaque stating
that maintenance was to pour a certain amount of something into it once
per month.

The plaque has been gone for a few months, but the thing does not smell.

We have them at work and they *stink*. They seem to have a lot of
maintenance problems, too.

Is it possible this is because no one is pouring a certain amount of
something into it once per month?

--
Wes Groleau

Armchair Activism: http://www.breakthechain.org/armchair.html

On Mon, 07 Jan 2013 00:01:06 -0500, Wes Groleau
wrote:

On 01-05-2013 23:53, wrote:
wrote:
One installed in a restaurant near here came with a large plaque stating
that maintenance was to pour a certain amount of something into it once
per month.

The plaque has been gone for a few months, but the thing does not smell.

We have them at work and they *stink*. They seem to have a lot of
maintenance problems, too.

Is it possible this is because no one is pouring a certain amount of
something into it once per month?

****? There's a lot of that being poured in them and it smells
accordingly. I've *never* seen one that didn't stink. If you like
that sort of thing in your house, you might just as well get a dozen
tomcats.

On Saturday, January 5, 2013 11:53:03 PM UTC-5, wrote:
We have them at work and they *stink*. They seem to have a lot of maintenance problems, too. I'm sure they aren't saving any money, even assuming the lie on the plaque (40,000gal/yr of water saved) were true.

They were all over Germany when we lived there. I never ran into one that smelled except.....sigh..........one in an American run office building.

But remember, there is no separate trap with these. The trap is the cylinder in the bottom, filled with salad oil and a little blue food coloring. As long as that trap is full, no problems. As soon as it empties or is flushed with a bucket, sewer gas comes up from the line.

One advantage of these is the ability to snake the line. That little trap/cylinder pops out, and you can go straight in with no p trap to get past.

Do urinals need snaking? Bad or hard water?
When I worked at McD, one of the urinals would
overflow if flushed twice, too soon.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"TimR" wrote in message
...

They were all over Germany when we lived there. I never ran into one that
smelled except.....sigh..........one in an American run office building.

But remember, there is no separate trap with these. The trap is the
cylinder in the bottom, filled with salad oil and a little blue food
coloring. As long as that trap is full, no problems. As soon as it empties
or is flushed with a bucket, sewer gas comes up from the line.

One advantage of these is the ability to snake the line. That little
trap/cylinder pops out, and you can go straight in with no p trap to get
past.

On Mon, 7 Jan 2013 09:34:07 -0800 (PST), TimR
wrote:

On Saturday, January 5, 2013 11:53:03 PM UTC-5, wrote:
We have them at work and they *stink*. They seem to have a lot of maintenance problems, too. I'm sure they aren't saving any money, even assuming the lie on the plaque (40,000gal/yr of water saved) were true.

They were all over Germany when we lived there. I never ran into one that smelled except.....sigh..........one in an American run office building.

But remember, there is no separate trap with these. The trap is the cylinder in the bottom, filled with salad oil and a little blue food coloring. As long as that trap is full, no problems. As soon as it empties or is flushed with a bucket, sewer gas comes up from the line.

It's *not* sewer gas.

One advantage of these is the ability to snake the line. That little trap/cylinder pops out, and you can go straight in with no p trap to get past.

On Saturday, January 5, 2013 11:30:06 AM UTC-5, Meanie wrote:
What is the reason you believe the gov will disapprove?

He's just being a facetious dick about the whole situation. Technically, it's "illegal" to sell "inefficient" fixtures new. Everything existing is "grandfathered in."

You can't buy anything "illegal" new off the shelf, and there's nothing stopping you from recycling old fixtures. Nobody is going to come into your home and shut you down.

And while you're at it, what's my favorite color?

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

wrote in message
...
On Saturday, January 5, 2013 11:30:06 AM UTC-5, Meanie wrote:
What is the reason you believe the gov will disapprove?

He's just being a facetious dick about the whole situation. Technically,
it's "illegal" to sell "inefficient" fixtures new. Everything existing is
"grandfathered in."

You can't buy anything "illegal" new off the shelf, and there's nothing
stopping you from recycling old fixtures. Nobody is going to come into your
home and shut you down.

On Sat, 5 Jan 2013 14:06:36 -0700, "Steve B" wrote:


wrote

Why do you need insurance for a urinal? About the only (possible)
insurable accident I could think of would be if some drunk vomited in
the urinal, then drowned in his own vomit, face down in the urinal....
* That would likely get posted to Youtube too....

Wasn't there a case like that in California already?

Steve ;-)


It wouldn't surprise me any.....
I've heard of drunks drowning in a toilet bowl too...
Kind of amazing how someone can drown in not much over a gallon of
water.

If you really want a urinal in your home (I don't) then I submit that you already have one.

Use the bathroom sink. Run just as much water as you need from the tap, typically not that much. The sink is easier to clean and gets cleaned more often than a toilet or urinal.

The height means the splash sound will never be heard. If you remember to shut the door quietly, SWMBO will never know.

On Tue, 08 Jan 2013 00:50:28 -0500, Wes Groleau
wrote:

On 01-07-2013 09:28, wrote:
wrote:
On 01-05-2013 23:53, wrote:
wrote:
One installed in a restaurant near here came with a large plaque stating
that maintenance was to pour a certain amount of something into it once
per month.

The plaque has been gone for a few months, but the thing does not smell.

We have them at work and they *stink*. They seem to have a lot of
maintenance problems, too.

Is it possible this is because no one is pouring a certain amount of
something into it once per month?

****? There's a lot of that being poured in them and it smells
accordingly. I've *never* seen one that didn't stink. If you like

I've only seen one and it didn't. Since your experience is the
opposite, I attribute the difference to someone following the
maintenance instructions.

Since you only have a sample of one, I suggest either the one sample
had more than usual ventilation or you have no nose.

On Tue, 08 Jan 2013 02:12:48 -0600, wrote:

On Sat, 5 Jan 2013 14:06:36 -0700, "Steve B" wrote:


wrote

Why do you need insurance for a urinal? About the only (possible)
insurable accident I could think of would be if some drunk vomited in
the urinal, then drowned in his own vomit, face down in the urinal....
* That would likely get posted to Youtube too....

Wasn't there a case like that in California already?

Steve ;-)


It wouldn't surprise me any.....
I've heard of drunks drowning in a toilet bowl too...
Kind of amazing how someone can drown in not much over a gallon of
water.

It's amazing that people drown in 5gal buckets, too.

On Tuesday, January 8, 2013 9:15:18 AM UTC-5, wrote:
Since you only have a sample of one, I suggest either the one sample had more than usual ventilation or you have no nose.

I've seen a sample of about 30, one of which smelled.

I blamed that on poor maintenance. But it's not impossible there are other factors. For example, a strong exhaust fan and a tight door might draw smells up through a marginal trap. There might be unusually high or low usage bathrooms that wouldn't work.

I'm not really suggesting waterless for home use. But it does have the advantage of not having to run a water line. And if your pressure is low, and/or your supply lines small, you can't run a flush valve and will have to fit a tank for a normal urinal to work.

"TimR" wrote in message
...
On Saturday, January 5, 2013 11:53:03 PM UTC-5, wrote:
We have them at work and they *stink*. They seem to have a lot of
maintenance problems, too. I'm sure they aren't saving any money, even
assuming the lie on the plaque (40,000gal/yr of water saved) were true.

They were all over Germany when we lived there. I never ran into one that
smelled except.....sigh..........one in an American run office building.

The house we bought 5 years ago came with a urinal installed in the
basement. I noticed it did indeed smell. I have since filled a large squeeze
bottle with about a 1/20 part mix of bleach/water and give the urinal a
healthy 4-5 second squeeze after each use. No more odor and have encountered
no maintenance problems.

On 01-08-2013 09:15, wrote:
Since you only have a sample of one, I suggest either the one sample
had more than usual ventilation or you have no nose.

:-) Having tried to teach two sons to aim better, I am well aware that
my nose is functional! The ventilation is a possibility, but given the
shape of the restaurant restroom, I don't think that's it.

Urinary salts will definitely build up on surfaces if not dealt with.
But the instructions for taking care of this thing sounded like they
would be sufficient.

--
Wes Groleau

Can we afford to be relevant?
http://www.cetesol.org/stevick.html

Urinals exist for speed. In an area where many people need to use bathrooms in a short period of time, and most only need #1, it is more efficient to install urinals than toilet stalls.

That problem really doesn't occur in the average home.

On Wed, 09 Jan 2013 00:10:48 -0500, Wes Groleau
wrote:

On 01-08-2013 09:15, wrote:
Since you only have a sample of one, I suggest either the one sample
had more than usual ventilation or you have no nose.

:-) Having tried to teach two sons to aim better, I am well aware that
my nose is functional! The ventilation is a possibility, but given the
shape of the restaurant restroom, I don't think that's it.

Urinary salts will definitely build up on surfaces if not dealt with.
But the instructions for taking care of this thing sounded like they
would be sufficient.

Normal urinals don't have the same problem. If they require some
abnormal maintenance, they hardly save money.

On 01-09-2013 10:57, wrote:
On Wed, 09 Jan 2013 00:10:48 -0500, Wes Groleau
wrote:

On 01-08-2013 09:15, wrote:
Since you only have a sample of one, I suggest either the one sample
had more than usual ventilation or you have no nose.

:-) Having tried to teach two sons to aim better, I am well aware that
my nose is functional! The ventilation is a possibility, but given the
shape of the restaurant restroom, I don't think that's it.

Urinary salts will definitely build up on surfaces if not dealt with.
But the instructions for taking care of this thing sounded like they
would be sufficient.

Normal urinals don't have the same problem. If they require some
abnormal maintenance, they hardly save money.

I don't recall what the substance was, but even if the amount
recommended was expensive, it's probably still cheaper than the amount
of water used to flush a conventional urinal in a restaurant.

--
Wes Groleau

Always listen to experts. Theyll tell you
what can't be done and why. Then do it.
€” Robert A. Heinlein (as Lazarus Long)

On Thu, 10 Jan 2013 02:37:12 -0500, Wes Groleau
wrote:

On 01-09-2013 10:57, wrote:
On Wed, 09 Jan 2013 00:10:48 -0500, Wes Groleau
wrote:

On 01-08-2013 09:15, wrote:
Since you only have a sample of one, I suggest either the one sample
had more than usual ventilation or you have no nose.

:-) Having tried to teach two sons to aim better, I am well aware that
my nose is functional! The ventilation is a possibility, but given the
shape of the restaurant restroom, I don't think that's it.

Urinary salts will definitely build up on surfaces if not dealt with.
But the instructions for taking care of this thing sounded like they
would be sufficient.

Normal urinals don't have the same problem. If they require some
abnormal maintenance, they hardly save money.

I don't recall what the substance was, but even if the amount
recommended was expensive, it's probably still cheaper than the amount
of water used to flush a conventional urinal in a restaurant.

If the stuff is free, labor isn't.

On Thursday, January 10, 2013 10:21:37 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Thu, 10 Jan 2013 02:37:12 -0500, Wes Groleau wrote: On 01-09-2013 10:57, wrote: On Wed, 09 Jan 2013 00:10:48 -0500, Wes Groleau wrote: On 01-08-2013 09:15, wrote: Since you only have a sample of one, I suggest either the one sample had more than usual ventilation or you have no nose. :-) Having tried to teach two sons to aim better, I am well aware that my nose is functional! The ventilation is a possibility, but given the shape of the restaurant restroom, I don't think that's it. Urinary salts will definitely build up on surfaces if not dealt with. But the instructions for taking care of this thing sounded like they would be sufficient. Normal urinals don't have the same problem. If they require some abnormal maintenance, they hardly save money. I don't recall what the substance was, but even if the amount recommended was expensive, it's probably still cheaper than the amount of water used to flush a conventional urinal in a restaurant. If the stuff is free, labor isn't.

Labor is a sunk cost. You have to clean a urinal anyway. It takes no more time to clean a waterless urinal than a flush valve urinal, BUT you have to be careful not to dump a mop bucket down and flush away the oil in the trap. There's only a couple ounces of oil in the trap, and salad oil works as well as the blue colored stuff they supply.

In an office building you easily save enough in water usage to make them worthwhile. In a home? I wouldn't bother. Unless I wanted to install a toilet where I had a drain line but not easy access to water, and that's a bit rare.

On Thu, 10 Jan 2013 11:30:08 -0800 (PST), TimR
wrote:

On Thursday, January 10, 2013 10:21:37 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Thu, 10 Jan 2013 02:37:12 -0500, Wes Groleau wrote: On 01-09-2013 10:57, wrote: On Wed, 09 Jan 2013 00:10:48 -0500, Wes Groleau wrote: On 01-08-2013 09:15, wrote: Since you only have a sample of one, I suggest either the one sample had more than usual ventilation or you have no nose. :-) Having tried to teach two sons to aim better, I am well aware that my nose is functional! The ventilation is a possibility, but given the shape of the restaurant restroom, I don't think that's it. Urinary salts will definitely build up on surfaces if not dealt with. But the instructions for taking care of this thing sounded like they would be sufficient. Normal urinals don't have the same problem. If they require some abnormal maintenance, they hardly save money. I don't recall what the substance was, but even if the amount recommended was
expensive, it's probably still cheaper than the amount of water used to flush a conventional urinal in a restaurant. If the stuff is free, labor isn't.

Labor is a sunk cost.

Nonsense. If that's the case, why does anyone hire more than one
employee?

You have to clean a urinal anyway.

From what everyone here says, these things need special care. That is
an incremental cost.

It takes no more time to clean a waterless urinal than a flush valve urinal, BUT you have to be careful not to dump a mop bucket down and flush away the oil in the trap. There's only a couple ounces of oil in the trap, and salad oil works as well as the blue colored stuff they supply.

The stink is *NOT* sewer gas. It's urine.

In an office building you easily save enough in water usage to make them worthwhile. In a home? I wouldn't bother. Unless I wanted to install a toilet where I had a drain line but not easy access to water, and that's a bit rare.

I'm not buying the economic sense anywhere. These things are always
being fiddled with and *stink*. The sign claiming 40,000gal/yr is
obviously a lie, too. Nope, sounds like PV salesman is pushing these
things.

On 01-10-2013 10:21, wrote:
I don't recall what the substance was, but even if the amount
recommended was expensive, it's probably still cheaper than the amount
of water used to flush a conventional urinal in a restaurant.
If the stuff is free, labor isn't.

Most places pay someone to wash urinals daily. Minimum wage, Twenty
dollars a month?

These instructions said don't do that, just pour this in once a month.

--
Wes Groleau

In any formula, constants (especially those obtained
from handbooks) are to be treated as variables.

On Friday, January 11, 2013 2:22:56 AM UTC-5, Wes Groleau wrote:
On 01-10-2013 10:21, wrote: I don't recall what the substance was, but even if the amount recommended was expensive, it's probably still cheaper than the amount of water used to flush a conventional urinal in a restaurant. If the stuff is free, labor isn't. Most places pay someone to wash urinals daily. Minimum wage, Twenty dollars a month? These instructions said don't do that, just pour this in once a month. -- Wes Groleau In any formula, constants (especially those obtained from handbooks) are to be treated as variables.

That I think is a mistake. You have to clean waterless urinals just as often. But it takes only seconds each to clean a urinal. Quick spritz with a spray bottle, quick wipe with a brush, and you're done.