On 11/4/2012 6:11 PM, wrote:
No dial tone once the fios battery is dead. Tone or pulse, makes no difference.


Er, I do believe I was responding to someone about the old POT's lines. O_o

TDD

On Sun, 4 Nov 2012 11:21:39 -0500, "Baron"
wrote:

"Mark" wrote in message
...
correct Fios has a battery at your home which is your responsibility
to maintain.

during a power failure, the battery powers your phone, for a few hours
only.

seems to me the lobbyists did their job convincing the govt that this
is ok, and we loose..

Mark



You are absolutely correct! I hung onto my copper line as long as I
could. A Verizon service technician told me that Verizon was not putting
any money into the maintenance of copper lines. The lines were getting
worse so outages were becoming more frequent.

Some lines maybe, but I don't think any around here are going out more
frequently.

The number of technicians
that could repair them was shrinking as they retired or left the company
since new technicians were not being trained, at least as thoroughly, as
they needed to be to service copper lines. Finally, Verizon offered to
install FiOS for free. I found it interesting that they were charging at
the start of the changeover several years ago. I read recently that
Verizon's desire to change over more quickly has subsided since they are not
making as much money on FiOS as they planned.

I was told the battery lasts about eight hours of actual use time so
unless you make / receive calls lasting eight hours straight, the battery
should last for several days.

IInteresting.

http://www22.verizon.com/support/res...vice/95363.htm
that Retired posted says " your back-up battery will provide you with
power for voice service for up to 8 hours."

Seems ambiguous. I'd be happier if it said voice usage. I"m under
the impression that I have "phone service" even when I'm not using the
phone. Still it is hard to believe that a " 12-Volt 7.2 Ah SLA
Sealed Lead Acid battery" would run down in only 8 hours of non-use.

Plus that's with a fully capable battery. Sealed lead acid
batteries get old and hold less charge as time goes on.

I hate the idea of having to use a battery
for my phone in an emergency but I know that Radio Shack sells the
batteries. The batteries also last about five years at which time they
should be replaced as part of a PM program.

One more thing I have to keep track of, and then do.

I have been thinking about
getting a backup battery and regularly topping off the charge with a trickle
charger but I have procrastinated on this.

More things if I do all that.

On Sun, 4 Nov 2012 17:15:02 -0500, "Ralph Mowery"
wrote:


"Baron" wrote in message
...
they needed to be to service copper lines. Finally, Verizon offered to
install FiOS for free. I found it interesting that they were charging at
the start of the changeover several years ago. I read recently that
Verizon's desire to change over more quickly has subsided since they are
not making as much money on FiOS as they planned.


I remember telephones were all the mechanical dial type. The touch tone
phones came out and it was extra for them. Even when you could install your
own phone they wanted extra for a touch tone line. They finally did away
with that. Not sure if the mechanical ones even work now on the lines.

Mine works in Baltimore. I just tried it again. I still have a
standard black phone, as well as other phones. I think once they've
designed a pcb or chip that handled both pulse and touch-tone, it
probably costs no more than a penny extra to keep the pulse circuit.
Of course some day they'll want a new circuit, like maybe with fios,
and then they may not write a new pulse circuit.

On 11/3/2012 1:03 AM, micky wrote:
On Fri, 2 Nov 2012 21:14:33 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

I spoke to someone from Verizon this morning who said that their plan is to start removing copper and transition everyone over to fiber. Thus ensuring that in the event of a disaster nobody has phone service after a few hours. I asked about a [bigger backup battery for the FIOS phone] and was told that the charger they use isn't powerful enough for it.

How can the charger not be powerful enough. It has weeks or months
to charge the battery, however long it is between power failures.

I had a 2nd-hand UPS and the battery wore out, and I replaced it with
a bigger one and it worked fine. I just broke out the plastic ribs
that held the smaller one in place. Of course they didnt'
specifically say a bigger battery wouldn't work, but how would the guy
you talked to know? He only "knows" what they told him.

They call this progress.

By the way, when they install fios they take away the copper wire so you can never go back to it.

I called about something and she started pushing me, over and over,
to get FIOS. I said I couldn't afford it but she said it was cheaper.
I'm still on an introductory rate for DSL and FIOS would be more, not
less.


Well,

A FIOS backup battery, at least the one in my panel, is a 12 volt gel
cell rated at 7.2 amp hours, which provides 'UP TO' 8 hours of backup.
Remember, 2 hours is a subset of UP TO 8 hours. During this event, I
got about 9 hours out of the battery.

Anyway, I'm sure the charge could handle a bit bigger battery, say 10
AH, but to hook up a car battery to it would be asking a bit much of the
charger. On the other hand, when power is out those with some knowledge
can add in more battery to run the panel while power is out. I do
this, and I disconnect my external battery when I'm not at home, since
there is no reason to run the panel when it will go to the answering
system anyway.

Lastly, keep in mind that the backup is ONLY for phone, Video and
internet goes away when the AC power is lost, at least on my panel.

Regards,
Tim
Bristol Electronics

"Tim Schwartz" wrote in message
...
On 11/3/2012 1:03 AM, micky wrote:
On Fri, 2 Nov 2012 21:14:33 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

I spoke to someone from Verizon this morning who said that their plan is
to start removing copper and transition everyone over to fiber. Thus
ensuring that in the event of a disaster nobody has phone service after
a few hours. I asked about a [bigger backup battery for the FIOS phone]
and was told that the charger they use isn't powerful enough for it.

How can the charger not be powerful enough. It has weeks or months
to charge the battery, however long it is between power failures.

I had a 2nd-hand UPS and the battery wore out, and I replaced it with
a bigger one and it worked fine. I just broke out the plastic ribs
that held the smaller one in place. Of course they didnt'
specifically say a bigger battery wouldn't work, but how would the guy
you talked to know? He only "knows" what they told him.

They call this progress.

By the way, when they install fios they take away the copper wire so you
can never go back to it.

I called about something and she started pushing me, over and over,
to get FIOS. I said I couldn't afford it but she said it was cheaper.
I'm still on an introductory rate for DSL and FIOS would be more, not
less.


Well,

A FIOS backup battery, at least the one in my panel, is a 12 volt gel
cell rated at 7.2 amp hours, which provides 'UP TO' 8 hours of backup.
Remember, 2 hours is a subset of UP TO 8 hours. During this event, I got
about 9 hours out of the battery.

Anyway, I'm sure the charge could handle a bit bigger battery, say 10 AH,
but to hook up a car battery to it would be asking a bit much of the
charger. On the other hand, when power is out those with some knowledge
can add in more battery to run the panel while power is out. I do this,
and I disconnect my external battery when I'm not at home, since there is
no reason to run the panel when it will go to the answering system anyway.

Lastly, keep in mind that the backup is ONLY for phone, Video and internet
goes away when the AC power is lost, at least on my panel.

Regards,
Tim
Bristol Electronics


What about the rest of their network? Will it hold up for more than 8 hours?

On Mon, 05 Nov 2012 16:00:56 -0500, Tim Schwartz
wrote:
Well,

A FIOS backup battery, at least the one in my panel, is a 12 volt gel
cell rated at 7.2 amp hours, which provides 'UP TO' 8 hours of backup.
Remember, 2 hours is a subset of UP TO 8 hours. During this event, I
got about 9 hours out of the battery.

Posted and mailed, if you don't mind. .

Even though you weren't on the phone for most of that time? Maybe
you talked for an hour and it still went dead after 9?

Anyway, I'm sure the charge could handle a bit bigger battery, say 10
AH, but to hook up a car battery to it would be asking a bit much of the
charger. On the other hand, when power is out those with some knowledge
can add in more battery to run the panel while power is out. I do
this, and I disconnect my external battery when I'm not at home, since
there is no reason to run the panel when it will go to the answering
system anyway.

Lastly, keep in mind that the backup is ONLY for phone, Video and
internet goes away when the AC power is lost, at least on my panel.

At first I didn't care about internet, because I don't have a laptop
yet, but I plan to get one. With DSL that I have now, that works
even when the power is out, right? (Assuming there is power at the
telephone company.)

Regards,
Tim
Bristol Electronics

On Mon, 5 Nov 2012 17:11:53 -0500, "tm"
wrote:


"Tim Schwartz" wrote in message
...
On 11/3/2012 1:03 AM, micky wrote:
On Fri, 2 Nov 2012 21:14:33 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

I spoke to someone from Verizon this morning who said that their plan is
to start removing copper and transition everyone over to fiber. Thus
ensuring that in the event of a disaster nobody has phone service after
a few hours. I asked about a [bigger backup battery for the FIOS phone]
and was told that the charger they use isn't powerful enough for it.

How can the charger not be powerful enough. It has weeks or months
to charge the battery, however long it is between power failures.

I had a 2nd-hand UPS and the battery wore out, and I replaced it with
a bigger one and it worked fine. I just broke out the plastic ribs
that held the smaller one in place. Of course they didnt'
specifically say a bigger battery wouldn't work, but how would the guy
you talked to know? He only "knows" what they told him.

They call this progress.

By the way, when they install fios they take away the copper wire so you
can never go back to it.

I called about something and she started pushing me, over and over,
to get FIOS. I said I couldn't afford it but she said it was cheaper.
I'm still on an introductory rate for DSL and FIOS would be more, not
less.


Well,

A FIOS backup battery, at least the one in my panel, is a 12 volt gel
cell rated at 7.2 amp hours, which provides 'UP TO' 8 hours of backup.
Remember, 2 hours is a subset of UP TO 8 hours. During this event, I got
about 9 hours out of the battery.

Anyway, I'm sure the charge could handle a bit bigger battery, say 10 AH,
but to hook up a car battery to it would be asking a bit much of the
charger. On the other hand, when power is out those with some knowledge
can add in more battery to run the panel while power is out. I do this,
and I disconnect my external battery when I'm not at home, since there is
no reason to run the panel when it will go to the answering system anyway.

Lastly, keep in mind that the backup is ONLY for phone, Video and internet
goes away when the AC power is lost, at least on my panel.

Regards,
Tim
Bristol Electronics


What about the rest of their network? Will it hold up for more than 8 hours?

Wouldn't that depend on where all the power outages are? Are there
amplifers or whatever between the central station and one's home, that
require power, and might not have any?

Are there back-up generators at Bell and Verizon telephone exchanges?

Wired phones run on batteries at the central station with generators
to keep the batteries charged, but what about FIOS phone and Fios
Internet?

On 11/3/2012 12:14 AM, wrote:
I spoke to someone from Verizon this morning who said that their plan is to start removing copper and transition everyone over to fiber. Thus ensuring that in the event of a disaster nobody has phone service after a few hours. I asked about a bigger battery and was told that the charger they use isn't powerful enough for it.

They call this progress.

By the way, when they install fios they take away the copper wire so you can never go back to it.


If you were the phone company what would you do? You have an aging
copper plant and you have a new fiber system that can perform all of the
functionality of the copper plant plus add additional capabilities.
Would you continue to maintain the copper plant and also the fiber plant?

On 11/6/2012 12:01 PM, micky wrote:
On Mon, 5 Nov 2012 17:11:53 -0500, "tm"
wrote:


"Tim Schwartz" wrote in message
...
On 11/3/2012 1:03 AM, micky wrote:
On Fri, 2 Nov 2012 21:14:33 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

I spoke to someone from Verizon this morning who said that their plan is
to start removing copper and transition everyone over to fiber. Thus
ensuring that in the event of a disaster nobody has phone service after
a few hours. I asked about a [bigger backup battery for the FIOS phone]
and was told that the charger they use isn't powerful enough for it.

How can the charger not be powerful enough. It has weeks or months
to charge the battery, however long it is between power failures.

I had a 2nd-hand UPS and the battery wore out, and I replaced it with
a bigger one and it worked fine. I just broke out the plastic ribs
that held the smaller one in place. Of course they didnt'
specifically say a bigger battery wouldn't work, but how would the guy
you talked to know? He only "knows" what they told him.

They call this progress.

By the way, when they install fios they take away the copper wire so you
can never go back to it.

I called about something and she started pushing me, over and over,
to get FIOS. I said I couldn't afford it but she said it was cheaper.
I'm still on an introductory rate for DSL and FIOS would be more, not
less.


Well,

A FIOS backup battery, at least the one in my panel, is a 12 volt gel
cell rated at 7.2 amp hours, which provides 'UP TO' 8 hours of backup.
Remember, 2 hours is a subset of UP TO 8 hours. During this event, I got
about 9 hours out of the battery.

Anyway, I'm sure the charge could handle a bit bigger battery, say 10 AH,
but to hook up a car battery to it would be asking a bit much of the
charger. On the other hand, when power is out those with some knowledge
can add in more battery to run the panel while power is out. I do this,
and I disconnect my external battery when I'm not at home, since there is
no reason to run the panel when it will go to the answering system anyway.

Lastly, keep in mind that the backup is ONLY for phone, Video and internet
goes away when the AC power is lost, at least on my panel.

Regards,
Tim
Bristol Electronics


What about the rest of their network? Will it hold up for more than 8 hours?

Wouldn't that depend on where all the power outages are? Are there
amplifers or whatever between the central station and one's home, that
require power, and might not have any?

Are there back-up generators at Bell and Verizon telephone exchanges?

Wired phones run on batteries at the central station with generators
to keep the batteries charged, but what about FIOS phone and Fios
Internet?

You are talking about days of old. Less than 40% of the population has
wired phones and phone companies see the handwriting on the wall. Many
such as Verizon sold off a bunch of those systems (Verizon sold off 13
states) to companies that will run what remains on a shoestring budget.
Stuff that they do retain will never again see the TLC of old.

DSL requires power to the modem.

And yes, if I were the phone company and saw that some customers wanted copper and some houses had copper and others had fiber, is it that much more complicated to service one OR the other?

Especially given what we've just seen, how communications falls apart in less than a day in an emergency situation.

And when they sold my elderly parents on fios they told my mother her computer would be faster- she thought that meant it would boot faster, not that her email would be 0.000001 second quicker. They never mentioned that if her power goes out her phone service is gone in less than half a day. They don't even give the option to have a huge battery and bigger charger, not even at an extra upfront fee (what'd that be, a hundred bucks?)

On Saturday, November 3, 2012 12:14:34 AM UTC-4, wrote:
They call this progress.

Phone companies are not charities. They are losing money on copper land line service, so they either go out of business and leave you with NO phone service at all, or they switch to something that they can market, namely FIOS.. Then they can upsell you for broadband Internet service.

Copper land line service is no good if the generators powering the switching equipment run out of fuel, or are flooded, or get knocked over by an earthquake too...

On Saturday, November 3, 2012 12:35:57 PM UTC-4, Wes Groleau wrote:
Phone, internet, TV--all digital signals through the same modem.
similar power requirements. Bit-rate does make a tiny difference.

Both TV and Internet are continuous or near-continuous streams of data. Phone is intermittent. No data flowing == lower power requirements.

On Saturday, November 3, 2012 5:35:30 PM UTC-4, wrote:
Although I'd like to tell Verizon that they can have my century-tested copper wiring when they pry it from my cold, dead hands.

Eventually they will take it from you because it will simply be too costly to maintain the entire infrastructure for your one line.

Besides, at best your copper runs to the nearest switching site. From there it's all digital and fiber-optics.

On Tue, 6 Nov 2012 09:56:48 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

DSL requires power to the modem.

Oh, yeah. I forgot. Senior moment. I doubt I'll ever buy a
generator but that still leaves the telephone.

And yes, if I were the phone company and saw that some customers wanted copper and some houses had copper and others had fiber, is it that much more complicated to service one OR the other?

I wouldnt' think so.

Especially given what we've just seen, how communications falls apart in less than a day in an emergency situation.

And when they sold my elderly parents on fios they told my mother her computer would be faster- she thought that meant it would boot faster, not that her email would be 0.000001 second quicker.

Exactly. For email and newsgroups, and mostly-text webpages it
makes no difference. I have a problem with my in-house phone wiring
that comes and goes, and for the last 3 years or so, I have a wire
from my upstairs bedroom/office down the front of the house to the
NID.

I was getting DSL so slow I coudln't watch even Youtube in real time,
but I found out the (posssibly cheaper than average) indoor round
white 4-conductor phone line I was using was too thin, so I switched
to thicker than average round white 4-conductor (R,G,B,Y) wire and I
tripled my download speed. Now even for the web it's fast enough and
I don't need no stinkin' fios.


They never mentioned that if her power goes out her phone service is gone in less than half a day. They don't even give the option to have a huge battery and bigger charger, not even at an extra upfront fee (what'd that be, a hundred bucks?)

Sort of like digital tv they said would work better, even with an
antenna, but it works worse for me.

On Tue, 06 Nov 2012 12:39:13 -0500, George
wrote:


Wired phones run on batteries at the central station with generators
to keep the batteries charged, but what about FIOS phone and Fios
Internet?

You are talking about days of old. Less than 40% of the population has
wired phones and phone companies see the handwriting on the wall. Many
such as Verizon sold off a bunch of those systems (Verizon sold off 13
states) to companies that will run what remains on a shoestring budget.
Stuff that they do retain will never again see the TLC of old.

But what about FIOS. If there is a power failure at the exchange, do
they all have generators? Are there amps or something on phone poles
between the telephone exchange and my house that depend on a source of
power that's neither the exchange or my house?

On Tue, 06 Nov 2012 12:36:30 -0500, George
wrote:

On 11/3/2012 12:14 AM, wrote:
I spoke to someone from Verizon this morning who said that their plan is to start removing copper and transition everyone over to fiber. Thus ensuring that in the event of a disaster nobody has phone service after a few hours. I asked about a bigger battery and was told that the charger they use isn't powerful enough for it.

They call this progress.

By the way, when they install fios they take away the copper wire so you can never go back to it.


If you were the phone company what would you do? You have an aging
copper plant and you have a new fiber system that can perform all of the
functionality of the copper plant plus add additional capabilities.
Would you continue to maintain the copper plant and also the fiber plant?

But they are supposed to have agreed with the Public Utility
Commission in some states not to remove the copper, for the sake of a
later owner, even if the current one promises to always want fios.

On Tue, 6 Nov 2012 10:12:56 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Saturday, November 3, 2012 12:14:34 AM UTC-4, wrote:
They call this progress.

Phone companies are not charities. They are losing money on copper land line service, so they either go out of business

I don't think there is any chance they'll go out of business. If
FIOS is cheaper for them, and I don't know why it would be, they can
save money by putting in fios for those who want it (and leaving tghe
rest of us alone.)

and leave you with NO phone service at all, or they switch to something that they can market, namely FIOS. Then they can upsell you for broadband Internet service.

Copper land line service is no good if the generators powering the switching equipment run out of fuel, or are flooded, or get knocked over by an earthquake too...

And how is that different from generators powering fios?

micky writes:

On Tue, 06 Nov 2012 12:39:13 -0500, George
wrote:


Wired phones run on batteries at the central station with generators
to keep the batteries charged, but what about FIOS phone and Fios
Internet?

You are talking about days of old. Less than 40% of the population has
wired phones and phone companies see the handwriting on the wall. Many
such as Verizon sold off a bunch of those systems (Verizon sold off 13
states) to companies that will run what remains on a shoestring budget.
Stuff that they do retain will never again see the TLC of old.

But what about FIOS. If there is a power failure at the exchange, do
they all have generators? Are there amps or something on phone poles
between the telephone exchange and my house that depend on a source of
power that's neither the exchange or my house?

Took a tour of a switching office once.
They have power, then backup generators, then big racks of backup
batteries.

The old copper system powered the phone from the switching office.
Your lights could be out but you could still use the phone.

With FIOS you have a few hours of battery power then you're dead.
In this last storm, my battery backup failed and had to be replaced
before I could use FIOS at all.

--
Dan Espen

On 11/6/2012 1:28 PM, micky wrote:
On Tue, 6 Nov 2012 10:12:56 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Saturday, November 3, 2012 12:14:34 AM UTC-4, wrote:
They call this progress.

Phone companies are not charities. They are losing money on copper land line service, so they either go out of business

I don't think there is any chance they'll go out of business. If
FIOS is cheaper for them, and I don't know why it would be, they can
save money by putting in fios for those who want it (and leaving tghe
rest of us alone.)

They have already lost 60% of their subscribers. Do you think it makes
sense to maintain an entire end to end copper plant for say a handful of
users?


and leave you with NO phone service at all, or they switch to something that they can market, namely FIOS. Then they can upsell you for broadband Internet service.

Copper land line service is no good if the generators powering the switching equipment run out of fuel, or are flooded, or get knocked over by an earthquake too...

And how is that different from generators powering fios?

On 11/6/2012 1:22 PM, micky wrote:
On Tue, 6 Nov 2012 09:56:48 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

DSL requires power to the modem.

Oh, yeah. I forgot. Senior moment. I doubt I'll ever buy a
generator but that still leaves the telephone.

And yes, if I were the phone company and saw that some customers wanted copper and some houses had copper and others had fiber, is it that much more complicated to service one OR the other?

I wouldnt' think so.

Especially given what we've just seen, how communications falls apart in less than a day in an emergency situation.

And when they sold my elderly parents on fios they told my mother her computer would be faster- she thought that meant it would boot faster, not that her email would be 0.000001 second quicker.

Exactly. For email and newsgroups, and mostly-text webpages it
makes no difference. I have a problem with my in-house phone wiring
that comes and goes, and for the last 3 years or so, I have a wire
from my upstairs bedroom/office down the front of the house to the
NID.

I was getting DSL so slow I coudln't watch even Youtube in real time,
but I found out the (posssibly cheaper than average) indoor round
white 4-conductor phone line I was using was too thin, so I switched
to thicker than average round white 4-conductor (R,G,B,Y) wire and I
tripled my download speed. Now even for the web it's fast enough and
I don't need no stinkin' fios.


You must have been in heybubs garage to get that. That cable was
commonly called "quad station wire" and hasn't been commonly used for
some time. The much preferred version is twisted pair especially when
DSL is involved.



They never mentioned that if her power goes out her phone service is gone in less than half a day. They don't even give the option to have a huge battery and bigger charger, not even at an extra upfront fee (what'd that be, a hundred bucks?)

Sort of like digital tv they said would work better, even with an
antenna, but it works worse for me.


I wouldn't go back to analog low def TV if they paid me.

On 11/6/2012 2:09 PM, Dan Espen wrote:
micky writes:

On Tue, 06 Nov 2012 12:39:13 -0500, George
wrote:


Wired phones run on batteries at the central station with generators
to keep the batteries charged, but what about FIOS phone and Fios
Internet?

You are talking about days of old. Less than 40% of the population has
wired phones and phone companies see the handwriting on the wall. Many
such as Verizon sold off a bunch of those systems (Verizon sold off 13
states) to companies that will run what remains on a shoestring budget.
Stuff that they do retain will never again see the TLC of old.

But what about FIOS. If there is a power failure at the exchange, do
they all have generators? Are there amps or something on phone poles
between the telephone exchange and my house that depend on a source of
power that's neither the exchange or my house?

Took a tour of a switching office once.
They have power, then backup generators, then big racks of backup
batteries.


Thats how things used to be when everyone had a wired phone. Something
like 60% of the population doesn't anymore. Providers are running away
from and spending as little as possible on the sort of infrastructure
you described.


The old copper system powered the phone from the switching office.
Your lights could be out but you could still use the phone.

With FIOS you have a few hours of battery power then you're dead.
In this last storm, my battery backup failed and had to be replaced
before I could use FIOS at all.

I spoke to someone from Verizon this morning who said that
their plan is to start removing copper and transition everyone
over to fiber.

That's their wish, but they can not force. The copper is
regulated, the fiber is not. The Suits have been making noises
about "maximizing our investment" which means "coerce people
to giving up copper..." For example, I cannot upgrade my DSL
because FIO$ is available here.

How can the charger not be powerful enough. It has weeks or
months to charge the battery, however long it is between power
failures.

Bingo, why do you care if it takes a week to fully recharge a
75AH deep cycle battery....?

By the way, when they install fios they take away the copper
wire so you can never go back to it.

Unless you can make good threats...their legal basis is iffy.

I called about something and she started pushing me, over and
over, to get FIOS. I said I couldn't afford it but she said it
was cheaper.

Bingo. And FIO$ keeps going up in cost.
--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

"tm" writes:


What about the rest of their network? Will it hold up for more than 8 hours?

There is nothing active between the FIOS CO and your ONT.
If your ONT has power, there's no reason for it to go down.



--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

micky writes:


But what about FIOS. If there is a power failure at the exchange, do
they all have generators?

They better; a CO is required to have backup power and does.

--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

Verizon isn't a charity but it IS a public utility.

For what it's worth they gave us fios service (albeit with no long distance, and 10 cent local calls) for the price of what copper basic service should be, around $30/month (most of which is taxes or pseudo-taxes).

On 11-06-2012 16:07, George wrote:
I wouldn't go back to analog low def TV if they paid me.

I would. I can see the local stations' antennas from my living room, so
I figured I didn't need a fancy antenna. I didn't--until digital.

Before, in severe whether, we got just a trace of fuzz. After, fog or
drizzle kills it completely.

--
Wes Groleau

€œWould the prodigal have gone home if
the elder brother was running the farm?€�
€” James Jordan

David Lesher wrote:

I spoke to someone from Verizon this morning who said that
their plan is to start removing copper and transition everyone
over to fiber.

That's their wish, but they can not force. The copper is
regulated, the fiber is not. The Suits have been making noises
about "maximizing our investment" which means "coerce people
to giving up copper..." For example, I cannot upgrade my DSL
because FIO$ is available here.

How can the charger not be powerful enough. It has weeks or
months to charge the battery, however long it is between power
failures.

Bingo, why do you care if it takes a week to fully recharge a
75AH deep cycle battery....?


With the internal charger? It would look like a bad battery and shut
down, if the charger design is any good.



By the way, when they install fios they take away the copper
wire so you can never go back to it.

Unless you can make good threats...their legal basis is iffy.


How do you propose a way to force them to keep copper when a lot of
'copper' circuits are only metallic for the last mile or less? IOW,
it's already mostly a fiber backbone. That last mile has the highest
maintenance costs, and will be replaced no matter what you want. The
line to my house has had an intermittent hum problem that they can't
find. When it shows up I call on a VOIP number to report it. The line
clears up about three to five minutes before they arrive, or it starts
working right after they verify that there is a problem.

David Lesher wrote:

micky writes:

But what about FIOS. If there is a power failure at the exchange, do
they all have generators?

They better; a CO is required to have backup power and does.


I haven't seen a real Central Office in decades. Just small
switching centers that are being replaced with packet switching
hardware. Most are the size of a one car garage, to have room to store
spare boards & equipment.

On 11/6/2012 1:12 PM, wrote:
On Saturday, November 3, 2012 12:14:34 AM UTC-4, wrote:
They call this progress.

Phone companies are not charities. They are losing money on copper land line service, so they either go out of business and leave you with NO phone service at all, or they switch to something that they can market, namely FIOS. Then they can upsell you for broadband Internet service.

Copper land line service is no good if the generators powering the switching equipment run out of fuel, or are flooded, or get knocked over by an earthquake too...

If Verizon was making so much money with FIOS, they would be pushing it
into the majority of the country where it remains unavailable. The
reason VZ stopped building out FIOS service is because it has not been
profitable for them. However, as far as overall profits are concerned,
have you checked the annual reports of the major TELCOs? Almost all of
the them are making money hand over fist.

I'm getting into politics now but I consider phone service to be a
national security asset, which should not be an "unregulated" private
enterprise. I believe it should be heavily regulated, if not downright
managed by the government, just as I believe should be the post office.
the railroads, the airlines, and the energy utilities. It seems to me
that when those assets were heavily regulated or even government run,
back in the 1940s - 1980s, it didn't stop this nation from growing the
largest and financially strongest middle class in world history. Is it
only a coincidence that the market instability and closing of
opportunities for upward mobility in our society has coincided with
progressive deregulation of those same assets?

On 11/06/2012 11:04 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

David Lesher wrote:

micky writes:

But what about FIOS. If there is a power failure at the exchange, do
they all have generators?

They better; a CO is required to have backup power and does.


I haven't seen a real Central Office in decades. Just small
switching centers that are being replaced with packet switching
hardware. Most are the size of a one car garage, to have room to store
spare boards & equipment.


I remember seeing the Central Office in Ft. Worth, with a lot of big
batteries (they said some of the batteries were from old submarines).
The batteries were supposed to be able to power everything for at least
24 hours, with generators for longer outages.

That was about 31 years ago.

BTW, they had more operators come to work during snowstorms and after
football games.

--
48 days until the winter celebration (Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:00:00 AM).

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us

"Holy Scriptu A book sent down from heaven.... Holy Scriptures
contain all that a Christian should know and believe, provided he adds
to it a million or so commentaries. [Voltaire]

Mark Lloyd wrote:

On 11/06/2012 11:04 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

David Lesher wrote:

micky writes:

But what about FIOS. If there is a power failure at the exchange, do
they all have generators?

They better; a CO is required to have backup power and does.


I haven't seen a real Central Office in decades. Just small
switching centers that are being replaced with packet switching
hardware. Most are the size of a one car garage, to have room to store
spare boards & equipment.


I remember seeing the Central Office in Ft. Worth, with a lot of big
batteries (they said some of the batteries were from old submarines).
The batteries were supposed to be able to power everything for at least
24 hours, with generators for longer outages.

That was about 31 years ago.

BTW, they had more operators come to work during snowstorms and after
football games.


Operators, 3i years ago? they must have still been a Strowager type
Central office if they were that out of date. My home town had it's
first generation ESS Central Office before that. It replaced some
1920's design junk. The batteries were designed for the application. I
doubt submarine batteries would last long in that application since C.O.
batteries are on float charge 99.9% of the time.

On 11-07-2012 17:34, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Operators, 3i years ago? they must have still been a Strowager type
Central office if they were that out of date. My home town had it's
first generation ESS Central Office before that. It replaced some

I operated a pull-out-out-the-cord-and-plug-it-in switchboard for a few
days in 1973.

On Navy ships in the late 1970s, we still had click-click-click rotating
stepper switches.

--
Wes Groleau

I won't burn your Koran because I don't want you to burn my Bible;
but if you burn my Bible, no one's going to die.
€” Robert Rhee

Wes Groleau wrote:

On 11-07-2012 17:34, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Operators, 3i years ago? they must have still been a Strowger type
Central office if they were that out of date. My home town had it's
first generation ESS Central Office before that. It replaced some

I operated a pull-out-out-the-cord-and-plug-it-in switchboard for a few
days in 1973.


Not many were left by then.


On Navy ships in the late 1970s, we still had click-click-click rotating
stepper switches.


Strowger stepper.


http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR1YMkG7qiygjslORZGAFHqGQzJE-4-IEcMxudCY1Nftoo6TKolEKcXApy8

On 11-07-2012 20:37, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Wes Groleau wrote:
I operated a pull-out-out-the-cord-and-plug-it-in switchboard for a few
days in 1973.

Not many were left by then.

Like http://www.telephonetribute.com/images/fig3-2.gif
but much smaller. Just served one building.

On Navy ships in the late 1970s, we still had click-click-click rotating
stepper switches.

Strowger stepper.

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR1YMkG7qiygjslORZGAFHqGQzJE-4-IEcMxudCY1Nftoo6TKolEKcXApy8

Well, same principle, I think, though it doesn't look the same. I
wasn't trained on it, but by watching it work, I think I figured it out.
I think we had two-digit numbers. Pick up a phone and a one-axis rotor
would step to the correct line of ten. Another would then select the
first rotor out of ten. Then one or two would connect that phone to
one of ten or a hundred lines to the other side, and the process in
reverse would select the right destination phone.

--
Wes Groleau

Trying to be happy is like trying to build a machine for which
the only specification is that it should run noiselessly.
€” unknown

"Mark" wrote in message
...
correct Fios has a battery at your home which is your responsibility
to maintain.

during a power failure, the battery powers your phone, for a few hours
only.

seems to me the lobbyists did their job convincing the govt that this
is ok, and we loose..

Mark


Sounds like keeping that battery charged is a perfect application for a
small solar panel.

Don't get the stab at the government or is that just an election leftover.

Tomsic

"George" wrote in message
...
On 11/6/2012 12:01 PM, micky wrote:
On Mon, 5 Nov 2012 17:11:53 -0500, "tm"
wrote:


"Tim Schwartz" wrote in message
...
On 11/3/2012 1:03 AM, micky wrote:
On Fri, 2 Nov 2012 21:14:33 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

I spoke to someone from Verizon this morning who said that their plan
is
to start removing copper and transition everyone over to fiber. Thus
ensuring that in the event of a disaster nobody has phone service
after
a few hours. I asked about a [bigger backup battery for the FIOS
phone]
and was told that the charger they use isn't powerful enough for it.

How can the charger not be powerful enough. It has weeks or months
to charge the battery, however long it is between power failures.

I had a 2nd-hand UPS and the battery wore out, and I replaced it with
a bigger one and it worked fine. I just broke out the plastic ribs
that held the smaller one in place. Of course they didnt'
specifically say a bigger battery wouldn't work, but how would the guy
you talked to know? He only "knows" what they told him.

They call this progress.

By the way, when they install fios they take away the copper wire so
you
can never go back to it.

I called about something and she started pushing me, over and over,
to get FIOS. I said I couldn't afford it but she said it was cheaper.
I'm still on an introductory rate for DSL and FIOS would be more, not
less.


Well,

A FIOS backup battery, at least the one in my panel, is a 12 volt gel
cell rated at 7.2 amp hours, which provides 'UP TO' 8 hours of backup.
Remember, 2 hours is a subset of UP TO 8 hours. During this event, I
got
about 9 hours out of the battery.

Anyway, I'm sure the charge could handle a bit bigger battery, say 10
AH,
but to hook up a car battery to it would be asking a bit much of the
charger. On the other hand, when power is out those with some
knowledge
can add in more battery to run the panel while power is out. I do
this,
and I disconnect my external battery when I'm not at home, since there
is
no reason to run the panel when it will go to the answering system
anyway.

Lastly, keep in mind that the backup is ONLY for phone, Video and
internet
goes away when the AC power is lost, at least on my panel.

Regards,
Tim
Bristol Electronics


What about the rest of their network? Will it hold up for more than 8
hours?

Wouldn't that depend on where all the power outages are? Are there
amplifers or whatever between the central station and one's home, that
require power, and might not have any?

Are there back-up generators at Bell and Verizon telephone exchanges?

Wired phones run on batteries at the central station with generators
to keep the batteries charged, but what about FIOS phone and Fios
Internet?

You are talking about days of old. Less than 40% of the population has
wired phones and phone companies see the handwriting on the wall. Many
such as Verizon sold off a bunch of those systems (Verizon sold off 13
states) to companies that will run what remains on a shoestring budget.
Stuff that they do retain will never again see the TLC of old.

That's right and one of the things that has changed now is moving the
batteries that ran the wired telephone system from the central station to
the user's property. There's no reason to be content with limited battery
time or even in-house batteries though. The batteries could easily be set
up to charge with a solar cell and the battery could also be put into the
cabinet that services the neighborhood - also with a solar panel to charge
it. FIOS and U-Verse should be pushed to do that.

Tomsic

Mark Lloyd writes:


I remember seeing the Central Office in Ft. Worth, with a lot
of big batteries (they said some of the batteries were from old
submarines). The batteries were supposed to be able to power
everything for at least 24 hours, with generators for longer
outages.

CO's are still around; it's just the switches in them are far smaller.
And they still have generators. And fuel. In the derecho in July,
the CO down the road was on generator for several days.

For whatever reason, FIOS always runs to a CO, not to a DLC in
the neighberhood.

You can't be forced to have FIOS for dialtone in any case I have
seen; as FIOS is not regulated. An obvious example: where there
is no AC power such as a building site. And while it is true the
DLC has only hours of batteries, the telco has an obligation to
keep it powered.

As for the ""too big a battery fable..."; it's not worth debunking
again.


--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

They give you fiber service at the regulated price, since the copper's been removed you can't have copper service anymore. And by 'copper' I include 'century-old, time-tested, reliable service.'

"Peter" wrote in message
...
On 11/6/2012 1:12 PM, wrote:
On Saturday, November 3, 2012 12:14:34 AM UTC-4,
wrote:
They call this progress.

Phone companies are not charities. They are losing money on copper land
line service, so they either go out of business and leave you with NO
phone service at all, or they switch to something that they can market,
namely FIOS. Then they can upsell you for broadband Internet service.

Copper land line service is no good if the generators powering the
switching equipment run out of fuel, or are flooded, or get knocked over
by an earthquake too...

If Verizon was making so much money with FIOS, they would be pushing it
into the majority of the country where it remains unavailable. The reason
VZ stopped building out FIOS service is because it has not been profitable
for them. However, as far as overall profits are concerned, have you
checked the annual reports of the major TELCOs? Almost all of the them
are making money hand over fist.

I'm getting into politics now but I consider phone service to be a
national security asset, which should not be an "unregulated" private
enterprise. I believe it should be heavily regulated, if not downright
managed by the government, just as I believe should be the post office.
the railroads, the airlines, and the energy utilities. It seems to me
that when those assets were heavily regulated or even government run, back
in the 1940s - 1980s, it didn't stop this nation from growing the largest
and financially strongest middle class in world history. Is it only a
coincidence that the market instability and closing of opportunities for
upward mobility in our society has coincided with progressive deregulation
of those same assets?

The test is going on right now. Conventional telephone service is highly
regulated; cell phone service much less so.

I'm wondering what would happen if regulations were to be removed from
conventional service. I'll guess that subscrber prices would rise rapidly
and traditional companies would exit asap. However, clever new companies
might well figure out how to keep the copper around if there were fewer
regulations.

Tomsic

On Sun, 04 Nov 2012 19:13:03 -0500, Frank
wrote:

On 11/3/2012 9:29 AM, George wrote:
On 11/3/2012 6:59 AM, Frank wrote:
Verizon put a fios line to my house to replace the copper wire. It
connects back to the land line box. There is a battery back up in the
fios line in the house. We had been having a lot of copper wire
problems and Verizon did this to solve the problem. We do not have
internet or TV with them.

I also have Comcast and got the triple play (internet, TV and phone) as
the cheapest package when I up graded to HD sets and DVR. The modem
where phone is connected has battery backup but the internet is not
backed up, only the Comcast phone.

There was an interesting problem with comcast. The large area near here
fortunately only had some trees down but extensive power failures (and
of course the cable is down because there is no power for the various
system pieces). So if you had a generator and thought you were going to
watch all of stuff you recorded on your comcast DVR you weren't allowed
to do it because unless the cable box can talk to the mother ship you
can't use it for anything except maybe to prop a door open.

Have not faced that problem. I do have a generator but it is not wired
in to where I have my DVR. I had thought that the recorded shows were
on a hard drive in the DVR and it always tells you how much space is
being used. We've been lucky the last few years and I can't recall more
than a half day's power outage since I bought the generator and cable or
copper line signals were never lost.

When I moved, last spring, I thought I could take the cable box with
me and watch the recorded stuff until I got satellite hooked up. The
shows are recorded on the local disk drive but, he's right. Without
communications with the mothership, the box is no more than an
expensive door stop.