Because they weren't union.

"...crews from Alabama got the shock of their lives when other workers in a
coastal New Jersey town told them they couldn’t lend a hand without a union
card."

http://dailycaller.com/2012/11/02/ne...#ixzz2B3qPshgA

On Fri, 2 Nov 2012 05:47:09 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:

Because they weren't union.

"...crews from Alabama got the shock of their lives when other workers in a
coastal New Jersey town told them they couldn’t lend a hand without a union
card."

http://dailycaller.com/2012/11/02/ne...#ixzz2B3qPshgA


That doesn't surprise me. The follow up that this page reports,
surprises me;
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/201...w_from_al.html
"The crews from Huntsville and Decatur will instead go to Long Island,
N.Y. to help the power get turned back on there. . ."


Jim

HeyBub wrote:
Because they weren't union.

"...crews from Alabama got the shock of their lives when other
workers in a coastal New Jersey town told them they couldn't lend a
hand without a union card."

http://dailycaller.com/2012/11/02/ne...#ixzz2B3qPshgA

Several subsequent news reports say that the above was incorrect, that help
is not being refused because of lack of union membership.

On Fri, 2 Nov 2012 15:12:34 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:

HeyBub wrote:
Because they weren't union.

"...crews from Alabama got the shock of their lives when other
workers in a coastal New Jersey town told them they couldn't lend a
hand without a union card."

http://dailycaller.com/2012/11/02/ne...#ixzz2B3qPshgA

Several subsequent news reports say that the above was incorrect, that help
is not being refused because of lack of union membership.


NJ Gov. Christie just stated the same thing during a press conference.

His has to power to put a stop to this, if it was happening. He said
as much.

On Fri, 02 Nov 2012 13:19:19 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Fri, 2 Nov 2012 15:12:34 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:

HeyBub wrote:
Because they weren't union.

"...crews from Alabama got the shock of their lives when other
workers in a coastal New Jersey town told them they couldn't lend a
hand without a union card."

http://dailycaller.com/2012/11/02/ne...#ixzz2B3qPshgA

Several subsequent news reports say that the above was incorrect, that help
is not being refused because of lack of union membership.


NJ Gov. Christie just stated the same thing during a press conference.

What same thing, the report or that the reports were incorrect?

His has to power to put a stop to this, if it was happening. He said
as much.

So was it and did he?

On Fri, 02 Nov 2012 22:06:50 -0400, micky
wrote:

On Fri, 02 Nov 2012 13:19:19 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Fri, 2 Nov 2012 15:12:34 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:

HeyBub wrote:
Because they weren't union.

"...crews from Alabama got the shock of their lives when other
workers in a coastal New Jersey town told them they couldn't lend a
hand without a union card."

http://dailycaller.com/2012/11/02/ne...#ixzz2B3qPshgA

Several subsequent news reports say that the above was incorrect, that help
is not being refused because of lack of union membership.


NJ Gov. Christie just stated the same thing during a press conference.

What same thing, the report or that the reports were incorrect?


False reports of crews being turned away because union affiliation.

His has to power to put a stop to this, if it was happening. He said
as much.


I hosed that sentence, huh

So was it and did he?

The governor said that under the authority of NJ law (Disaster) he
would use it he needed to impose it. Basically, preventing union
activity in face of an emergency.

His point was that reports were false.

On Fri, 02 Nov 2012 19:32:19 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Fri, 02 Nov 2012 22:06:50 -0400, micky
wrote:

On Fri, 02 Nov 2012 13:19:19 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Fri, 2 Nov 2012 15:12:34 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:

HeyBub wrote:
Because they weren't union.

"...crews from Alabama got the shock of their lives when other
workers in a coastal New Jersey town told them they couldn't lend a
hand without a union card."

http://dailycaller.com/2012/11/02/ne...#ixzz2B3qPshgA

Several subsequent news reports say that the above was incorrect, that help
is not being refused because of lack of union membership.


NJ Gov. Christie just stated the same thing during a press conference.

What same thing, the report or that the reports were incorrect?


False reports of crews being turned away because union affiliation.

His has to power to put a stop to this, if it was happening. He said
as much.


I hosed that sentence, huh

So was it and did he?

The governor said that under the authority of NJ law (Disaster) he
would use it he needed to impose it. Basically, preventing union
activity in face of an emergency.

His point was that reports were false.

Thanks.

The governor said that under the authority of NJ law (Disaster) he
would use it he needed to impose it. Basically, preventing union
activity in face of an emergency.

His point was that reports were false.

The link I clicked on said otherwise. It said that the first report,
that the power company turned them away, was inaccurate, but that their
Union "non-brothers" told them they couldn't help.


--
Wes Groleau

The man who says, €œI can do it!" may sometimes fail.
The man who says, €œImpossible!" will never succeed.

HeyBub wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
Because they weren't union.

"...crews from Alabama got the shock of their lives when other
workers in a coastal New Jersey town told them they couldn't lend a
hand without a union card."

http://dailycaller.com/2012/11/02/ne...#ixzz2B3qPshgA

Several subsequent news reports say that the above was incorrect,
that help is not being refused because of lack of union membership.

----
"In a two-page Oct. 29 contract, the International Brotherhood of Electrical
Workers (IBEW) local 1049 demanded union dues, pay hikes and benefit
contributions from Florida electric utilities before its workers would be
permitted to help reconnect power to Long Island communities. The demand
came as Hurricane Sandy was bearing down on the Northeastern United States,
stranding tens of millions without electricity."

http://dailycaller.com/2012/11/03/am...#ixzz2BFbyS3gz

The article goes on to say that the union director subsequently placed a
'phone call withdrawing the demands in the letter.

On Sun, 4 Nov 2012 05:09:18 -0600, "HeyBub"
wrote:

HeyBub wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
Because they weren't union.

"...crews from Alabama got the shock of their lives when other
workers in a coastal New Jersey town told them they couldn't lend a
hand without a union card."

http://dailycaller.com/2012/11/02/ne...#ixzz2B3qPshgA

Several subsequent news reports say that the above was incorrect,
that help is not being refused because of lack of union membership.

----
"In a two-page Oct. 29 contract, the International Brotherhood of Electrical
Workers (IBEW) local 1049 demanded union dues, pay hikes and benefit
contributions from Florida electric utilities before its workers would be
permitted to help reconnect power to Long Island communities. The demand
came as Hurricane Sandy was bearing down on the Northeastern United States,
stranding tens of millions without electricity."

http://dailycaller.com/2012/11/03/am...#ixzz2BFbyS3gz

The article goes on to say that the union director subsequently placed a
'phone call withdrawing the demands in the letter.


BFD. The IBEW wanted the southern guys paid union scale and wanted to
pad their own pension and health funds as usual with the hourly cut.
Who do you think is paying for this?
You don't think these guys are unpaid "volunteers" do you?
Or that the Florida/Ala utilities aren't getting paid?
The Feds will pay for all this work. Taxpayers.
The Florida/Ala utility companies will charge the NY/NJ utilities all
costs- and then some for salaried bonuses.
The NY/NJ utilities will then squeeze the Feds like an orange.
The IBEW wants the juice going to all the workers and their own
pension and health funds. And to union management salaries.
Just good union business practice.
No different than other business, except the money is spread more
evenly.
It didn't work, so the southern guys will be up north working in
dangerous conditions at their southern pay scale.
Hope they work the per diem well.
Besides, it's nearly all bull**** anyway.
http://mediamatters.org/blog/2012/11...-claims/191101

All it takes is one right-wing cracker to start spreading bull****.
On this newsgroup, we have you to fill the role.
You're still doing it with "Turned back" in your subject.
Never happened. And even if it did at some small scale I wouldn't
give a **** anyway, Just an example of human frailty, like yours.

On Sun, 04 Nov 2012 09:05:46 -0600, The Daring Dufas
wrote:



TDD

My monthly "talking at crackers" quota is done all used up.
This is all the words I had left for y'all. Sorry.

On 11/4/2012 8:30 AM, Vic Smith wrote:
....

BFD. The IBEW wanted the southern guys paid union scale and wanted to
pad their own pension and health funds as usual with the hourly cut.
Who do you think is paying for this?
You don't think these guys are unpaid "volunteers" do you?
Or that the Florida/Ala utilities aren't getting paid?
The Feds will pay for all this work. Taxpayers.
The Florida/Ala utility companies will charge the NY/NJ utilities all
costs- and then some for salaried bonuses.
The NY/NJ utilities will then squeeze the Feds like an orange.
....

Well, mostly no...

IBEW didn't really care about whether the other guys got paid union
scale or not other than it undermines their scale--all they really
wanted was their cut irrespective of whether it helped accomplish the
needed work or not. Definitely not a "team player" attitude at a time
of need.

And, FEMA does _NOT_ reimburse private, for-profit utilities for
reconstruction--that's limited to nonprofit public and/or co-ops.

Also, it is certainly well within the normal operations that utilities
_do_ provide gratis services to other utilities in such times w/o direct
payback for salaries, etc., on the basis that they'll get return support
when they need it.

Our local co-op in SW KS has sent crews as far as LA and MS and has in
return had them here after some of our massive ice storms. Our
rebuilding costs have been something approaching 80% of total
capitalized value over some 7+ years it has taken to rebuild all of the
damaged areas to original capabilities from a massive ice event in
'03/'04 followed by the massive tornado outbreak in '05. Even as a
nonprofit member-owned co-op, our FEMA repair aid was limited to 75% of
actual costs so it has been a sizable out-of-pocket outlay for a
relatively small utility (not to mention it took years to receive after
the events). No utility gets well financially out of these events...

--

On 11/4/2012 9:24 AM, Vic Smith wrote:
On Sun, 04 Nov 2012 09:05:46 -0600, The Daring Dufas
wrote:



TDD

My monthly "talking at crackers" quota is done all used up.
This is all the words I had left for y'all. Sorry.


Vic, you must be one O them racist too! ^_^

TDD

On Sun, 04 Nov 2012 09:28:44 -0600, dpb wrote:



Also, it is certainly well within the normal operations that utilities
_do_ provide gratis services to other utilities in such times w/o direct
payback for salaries, etc., on the basis that they'll get return support
when they need it.


I'm talking about Sandy facts only here.
Not your local co-op.
Business is business.

http://www.bizjournals.com/southflor....html?page=all

"The company sent about 300 vehicles to seven different utilities from
Virginia to New Jersey. Crews began leaving from throughout Florida on
Monday. The utilities receiving aid are PEPCO, BG&E, PPL, AEP, First
Energy, PECO and Dominion.
FPL said those utilities pay the cost of such assistance."

Vic Smith wrote:

BFD. The IBEW wanted the southern guys paid union scale and wanted to
pad their own pension and health funds as usual with the hourly cut.
Who do you think is paying for this?
You don't think these guys are unpaid "volunteers" do you?
Or that the Florida/Ala utilities aren't getting paid?
The Feds will pay for all this work. Taxpayers.
The Florida/Ala utility companies will charge the NY/NJ utilities all
costs- and then some for salaried bonuses.
The NY/NJ utilities will then squeeze the Feds like an orange.
The IBEW wants the juice going to all the workers and their own
pension and health funds. And to union management salaries.
Just good union business practice.
No different than other business, except the money is spread more
evenly.
It didn't work, so the southern guys will be up north working in
dangerous conditions at their southern pay scale.
Hope they work the per diem well.
Besides, it's nearly all bull**** anyway.
http://mediamatters.org/blog/2012/11...-claims/191101

All it takes is one right-wing cracker to start spreading bull****.
On this newsgroup, we have you to fill the role.
You're still doing it with "Turned back" in your subject.
Never happened. And even if it did at some small scale I wouldn't
give a **** anyway, Just an example of human frailty, like yours.

Thanks for responding.

There are many flaws in your post, but I'll mention only one: I'm not
spreading "bull****," I'm only your humble reporter. You're free to inspect
the links I provided and draw your own conclusions as to the verity of the
reports, including a photocopy of the letter from the president of the local
IBEW demanding tribute.

I don't know if those stories about electrical workers being turned away because of their union status is true or not, but at some point I just gotta say:

You Americans are great neighbors, but it's so often we see you shoot yourselves in the foot because your government is too big and unable to respond to an emergency.

When 9-11 happened, on September 12th there were Canadian SAR teams packed and ready to go at the Vancouver airport with airline tickets they bought themselves for New York to help with the recovery effort at ground zero. They weren't granted permits to enter the US and so they slept at the airport until they were allowed to enter the US. SAR teams from Nova Scotia and New Brunswick beat them to New York by droving down there in their own cars along with their dogs and equipment. If Canadian authorities can approve the landing of every inbound flight destined for the US at a Canadian airport within minutes, why can't US authorities move as quickly in dealing with emergencies? (Winnipeg had dozen's of US and foreign jets landing here because we're the last major airport (except for the airport at Churchill that can handle a large jet, but just barely) before you cross over the North Pole. I still remember the Winnipeg radio stations asking people with empty beds in their homes to come to the airport to pick up stranded passengers who needed a place to stay. I phoned CJOB here in Winnipeg and said I had two empty apartments, but couldn't provide any furniture. They never phoned me back.)

When Katrina flooded New Orleans, the Canadian government had two war ships ready to send to New Orleans with the supplies that would be needed; tents, plywood, bottled water, food, etc. We repeated asked your government what was needed down there, and repeatedly got referred to FEMA, and repeatedly got no repsonse from FEMA. We finally ended up sending the ships with what we thought would be needed, but they only arrived after the US military took control of the situation from FEMA, and it didn't make much news because the US military had the resources to get the situation under control. We left the cargo with the US navy and our ships sailed back to Halifax.

Your government just seems to be too big and cumbersome to deal with emergencies. You need to have a way of waiving the paperwork requirements during emergencies so that your FRIENDS can help out when needed. As it stands now, no one seems to want to exercise the authority to waive those requriements to get things done faster... presumably for fear that lowering your guard is just going to make it easier for your enemies to launch another terrorist attack.

Canadian SARS teams that can name every member of the Monkees, and who can list off your US presidents in order from JFK to now are NOT terrorists. Just doing some ethnic profiling and asking some questions that people born and raised in Canada would know the answers to, but Pakistanis and Arabs wouldn't might be a way of doing that. Like for example, "Who was the now deceased creator of the Muppets?", or "In baseball, what is a southpaw?", or "Why didn't Edward Kennedy ever run for President?" Surely anyone who knows the answers to any of those questions grew up here and is only wanting to help because he has specialized training that is needed in the disaster zone.

You're a great country, but you always create problems for yourselves because your officials are too afraid to take a chance on trusting people who are wanting to help out.

On 11/4/2012 9:53 AM, Vic Smith wrote:
....

"The company sent about 300 vehicles to seven different utilities from
Virginia to New Jersey. Crews began leaving from throughout Florida on
Monday. The utilities receiving aid are PEPCO, BG&E, PPL, AEP, First
Energy, PECO and Dominion.
FPL said those utilities pay the cost of such assistance."

I didn't say the _couldn't_ have reciprocal agreements but if they do,
that's fine, too. It's far from your previous rant, however, even where so.

And, the private utilities will not be eligible for FEMA reimbursement.

The electrical co-op is a business, too, albeit non-profit. Our line
miles are tremendously high/load in comparison to populated areas out
here so capital costs on a service basis are quite high even if total
numbers aren't...

--

On 11/4/2012 2:37 PM, dpb wrote:
On 11/4/2012 9:53 AM, Vic Smith wrote:
...

"The company sent about 300 vehicles to seven different utilities from
Virginia to New Jersey. Crews began leaving from throughout Florida on
Monday. The utilities receiving aid are PEPCO, BG&E, PPL, AEP, First
Energy, PECO and Dominion.
FPL said those utilities pay the cost of such assistance."

I didn't say the _couldn't_ have reciprocal agreements but if they do,
that's fine, too. It's far from your previous rant, however, even where so.
....

Oh, and we've both given to and received from for-profit utilities line
reconstruction aid both with and without actual cost billing--it all
depends on the utilities involved and also on how much effort may be
involved for any single incident/utility. In a very widespread disaster
region at a far distance from home it makes more sense to get
reimbursement than to expect compensating aid down the road...our
cooperating agreements are mostly w/ the more local areas where it's
highly there's going to be ice damage pretty frequently (like every
couple or three years) rather than really extreme event such as this.

--

On 11/4/2012 2:37 PM, dpb wrote:
On 11/4/2012 9:53 AM, Vic Smith wrote:
...

"The company sent about 300 vehicles to seven different utilities from
Virginia to New Jersey. Crews began leaving from throughout Florida on
Monday. The utilities receiving aid are PEPCO, BG&E, PPL, AEP, First
Energy, PECO and Dominion.
....

The electrical co-op is a business, too, albeit non-profit. Our line
miles are tremendously high/load in comparison to populated areas out
here so capital costs on a service basis are quite high even if total
numbers aren't...

And, I just checked...we have ~8X the service area of PEPCO (~5000 sq mi
compared to 640).

--

On Sun, 04 Nov 2012 14:59:39 -0500, Wes Groleau
wrote in Re
UPDATE #2: Utility repair crews turned back:

On 11-04-2012 09:30, Vic Smith wrote:
BFD. The IBEW wanted the southern guys paid union scale and wanted to
pad their own pension and health funds as usual with the hourly cut.

The letter started out demanding that the workers get paid according to
numbers that weren't in the letter. I'm OK with that.

Then it demanded funds for health insurance. I was OK with that,
too--until I started thinking: health insurance that costs nearly ten
dollars per HOUR?

Then the other demands: ONE-THIRD of the wages into various Union funds.
Sorry, I am NOT OK with that.

Utility workers pelted with eggs
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/11/02...-by-residents/

and they deserve every bit of it.

Any evidence that the workers were showing preference? They deny it, of
course.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"CRNG" wrote in message
...

Utility workers pelted with eggs
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/11/02...-by-residents/

and they deserve every bit of it.

On 11/5/2012 5:13 AM, CRNG wrote:
On Sun, 04 Nov 2012 14:59:39 -0500, Wes Groleau
wrote in Re
UPDATE #2: Utility repair crews turned back:

On 11-04-2012 09:30, Vic Smith wrote:
BFD. The IBEW wanted the southern guys paid union scale and wanted to
pad their own pension and health funds as usual with the hourly cut.

The letter started out demanding that the workers get paid according to
numbers that weren't in the letter. I'm OK with that.

Then it demanded funds for health insurance. I was OK with that,
too--until I started thinking: health insurance that costs nearly ten
dollars per HOUR?

Then the other demands: ONE-THIRD of the wages into various Union funds.
Sorry, I am NOT OK with that.

Utility workers pelted with eggs
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/11/02...-by-residents/

and they deserve every bit of it.


The mayor is a Democrat, what do you expect from his ilk other than to
play to his constituents with the Democrat lies about the evil rich
getting special privileges. O_o

TDD

The Daring Dufas wrote in
:

On 11/5/2012 5:13 AM, CRNG wrote:
On Sun, 04 Nov 2012 14:59:39 -0500, Wes Groleau
wrote in Re
UPDATE #2: Utility repair crews turned back:

On 11-04-2012 09:30, Vic Smith wrote:
BFD. The IBEW wanted the southern guys paid union scale and wanted
to pad their own pension and health funds as usual with the hourly
cut.

The letter started out demanding that the workers get paid according
to numbers that weren't in the letter. I'm OK with that.

Then it demanded funds for health insurance. I was OK with that,
too--until I started thinking: health insurance that costs nearly
ten dollars per HOUR?

Then the other demands: ONE-THIRD of the wages into various Union
funds.
Sorry, I am NOT OK with that.

Utility workers pelted with eggs
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/11/02...workers-report
-having-objects-thrown-at-them-by-residents/

and they deserve every bit of it.


The mayor is a Democrat, what do you expect from his ilk other than to
play to his constituents with the Democrat lies about the evil rich
getting special privileges. O_o

TDD

You know from whom this is coming ...

It is not right to blame the utility workers for these problems. It may
not even be right to blame everything on the utility. The problem is
regulation and management by utility and PUC (or whatever name the
regulating agency has). It simply doesn't work to do things on the
cheap. There needs to be sufficient investment to make transmission
lines and substations more resilient, MUCH more resilient to these
storms. It is inexcusable that street level work has to wait 3 or more
days because those higher levels of infrastructure need to be repaired.
IMO (not an engineer at all), those parts of infrastructure need to be
strengthened very much. Ideally, the street level infrastructure needs
to be hardened as well, either by going underground, or by really sverely
trimming trees.


--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

In article ,
Han wrote:

There needs to be sufficient investment to make transmission
lines and substations more resilient, MUCH more resilient to these
storms. It is inexcusable that street level work has to wait 3 or more
days because those higher levels of infrastructure need to be repaired.
IMO (not an engineer at all), those parts of infrastructure need to be
strengthened very much. Ideally, the street level infrastructure needs
to be hardened as well, either by going underground, or by really sverely
trimming trees.

Under the ground in NYC is an absolute cluster **** of layers upon
layers upon layers of utilities that date back more than 100 years, and
much of it is not in good condition. For example, the water mains that
feed the entire city are controlled by enormous valves that are more
than 100 years old, long overdue for replacement, yet cannot be shut off
because they're afraid they would crumble and fail catastrophically.
Which, eventually, they will, even if they don't touch them.

I think there are plenty of documentaries out there that detail our
crumbling infrastructure fairly well. Maybe we should give up being the
world's thug and start a new WPA with the money.

Now, they have a chance to rewire. That's a start.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Smitty Two" wrote in message
...

Under the ground in NYC is an absolute cluster **** of layers upon
layers upon layers of utilities that date back more than 100 years, and
much of it is not in good condition. For example, the water mains that
feed the entire city are controlled by enormous valves that are more
than 100 years old, long overdue for replacement, yet cannot be shut off
because they're afraid they would crumble and fail catastrophically.
Which, eventually, they will, even if they don't touch them.

I think there are plenty of documentaries out there that detail our
crumbling infrastructure fairly well. Maybe we should give up being the
world's thug and start a new WPA with the money.

I've heard that the "turned back" was not correct.
OTOH, I smell a back pedalling cover up by the
unions.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

Smitty Two wrote in
:

In article ,
Han wrote:

There needs to be sufficient investment to make transmission
lines and substations more resilient, MUCH more resilient to these
storms. It is inexcusable that street level work has to wait 3 or
more days because those higher levels of infrastructure need to be
repaired. IMO (not an engineer at all), those parts of
infrastructure need to be strengthened very much. Ideally, the
street level infrastructure needs to be hardened as well, either by
going underground, or by really sverely trimming trees.

Under the ground in NYC is an absolute cluster **** of layers upon
layers upon layers of utilities that date back more than 100 years,
and much of it is not in good condition. For example, the water mains
that feed the entire city are controlled by enormous valves that are
more than 100 years old, long overdue for replacement, yet cannot be
shut off because they're afraid they would crumble and fail
catastrophically. Which, eventually, they will, even if they don't
touch them.

I think there are plenty of documentaries out there that detail our
crumbling infrastructure fairly well. Maybe we should give up being
the world's thug and start a new WPA with the money.

At the moment they are rather far into finishing another main water
supply tunnel into NYC. With incredible foresight grin they are hoping
that will be completed before one or another of the 2 old tunnels, or
their valves, fail(s).

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On 11/5/2012 7:57 AM, Han wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote in
:

On 11/5/2012 5:13 AM, CRNG wrote:
On Sun, 04 Nov 2012 14:59:39 -0500, Wes Groleau
wrote in Re
UPDATE #2: Utility repair crews turned back:

On 11-04-2012 09:30, Vic Smith wrote:
BFD. The IBEW wanted the southern guys paid union scale and wanted
to pad their own pension and health funds as usual with the hourly
cut.

The letter started out demanding that the workers get paid according
to numbers that weren't in the letter. I'm OK with that.

Then it demanded funds for health insurance. I was OK with that,
too--until I started thinking: health insurance that costs nearly
ten dollars per HOUR?

Then the other demands: ONE-THIRD of the wages into various Union
funds.
Sorry, I am NOT OK with that.

Utility workers pelted with eggs
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/11/02...workers-report
-having-objects-thrown-at-them-by-residents/

and they deserve every bit of it.


The mayor is a Democrat, what do you expect from his ilk other than to
play to his constituents with the Democrat lies about the evil rich
getting special privileges. O_o

TDD

You know from whom this is coming ...

It is not right to blame the utility workers for these problems. It may
not even be right to blame everything on the utility. The problem is
regulation and management by utility and PUC (or whatever name the
regulating agency has). It simply doesn't work to do things on the
cheap. There needs to be sufficient investment to make transmission
lines and substations more resilient, MUCH more resilient to these
storms. It is inexcusable that street level work has to wait 3 or more
days because those higher levels of infrastructure need to be repaired.
IMO (not an engineer at all), those parts of infrastructure need to be
strengthened very much. Ideally, the street level infrastructure needs
to be hardened as well, either by going underground, or by really sverely
trimming trees.


I'm sure there is an army of bean counters working for the utilities
planing to spend just enough on the infrastructure for it to withstand
average weather events. ^_^

TDD

The Daring Dufas wrote in news:k78ql3
:

I'm sure there is an army of bean counters working for the utilities
planing to spend just enough on the infrastructure for it to withstand
average weather events. ^_^

And this liberal is proposing that the NJ BPU and the local and state
authorities should "encourage" the utilities to invest in better, more
"hardened" transmission lines and substations, and to maintain properly the
utility pole infrastructure. Perhaps that should cost money, perhaps even
big money, but that would be an investment, and the rate payers would have
to pay. Poor me.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On Mon, 05 Nov 2012 05:13:36 -0600, CRNG wrote:



Utility workers pelted with eggs
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/11/02...-by-residents/

and they deserve every bit of it.

Deserve it? How do you figure that? Crews go where they are sent. If
the crews worked for me, I'd pull them out of there and let the egg
******* freeze forever. Act like animals and you can live in the
wild. F 'em.

On 11/5/2012 8:40 PM, Han wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote in news:k78ql3
:

I'm sure there is an army of bean counters working for the utilities
planing to spend just enough on the infrastructure for it to withstand
average weather events. ^_^

And this liberal is proposing that the NJ BPU and the local and state
authorities should "encourage" the utilities to invest in better, more
"hardened" transmission lines and substations, and to maintain properly the
utility pole infrastructure. Perhaps that should cost money, perhaps even
big money, but that would be an investment, and the rate payers would have
to pay. Poor me.


We can't forget the evil rich stockholders like teacher's pension funds. ^_^

TDD

On 11/5/2012 9:40 PM, Han wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote in news:k78ql3
:

I'm sure there is an army of bean counters working for the utilities
planing to spend just enough on the infrastructure for it to withstand
average weather events. ^_^

And this liberal is proposing that the NJ BPU and the local and state
authorities should "encourage" the utilities to invest in better, more
"hardened" transmission lines and substations, and to maintain properly the
utility pole infrastructure. Perhaps that should cost money, perhaps even
big money, but that would be an investment, and the rate payers would have
to pay. Poor me.


The trees are the problem.

Trees fall on the lines and break them.

If we really want a more reliable grid, we need to remove the trees
growing near the lines.

The Daring Dufas wrote in
:

On 11/5/2012 8:40 PM, Han wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote in
news:k78ql3 :

I'm sure there is an army of bean counters working for the utilities
planing to spend just enough on the infrastructure for it to
withstand average weather events. ^_^

And this liberal is proposing that the NJ BPU and the local and state
authorities should "encourage" the utilities to invest in better,
more "hardened" transmission lines and substations, and to maintain
properly the utility pole infrastructure. Perhaps that should cost
money, perhaps even big money, but that would be an investment, and
the rate payers would have to pay. Poor me.


We can't forget the evil rich stockholders like teacher's pension
funds. ^_^

TDD

No, we can't forget the pension funds that (in NJ) haven't been funded
for years. The gvnmt has just squirreled it away and spent it, the
former Dem gvnmt as well as the current Christie gvnmt. But that wasn't
my point. My point is not that the stock holders should be stiffed
(although, weren't they remiss in making sure their investment was safe,
from storms as well as other hazards?). My point is that in order to
have aproductive investment long term, one should harden the capital
invested, i.e. make sure that the utility poles are not rotted and
leaning, aren't in places where trucks and buses can knock them over,
have wiring that isn't about to part, and have substations (quite an
investment, each one) that aren't prone to flooding. I'm fairly sure
that would cost many millions to achieve, but in the long run (if done
right) would be cheaper than repairing things on the scale we are doing
now. Irene, freak snowstorm, Sandy, the next nor'easter, etc.

And yes, the rate payers would have to pay off the bonds.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

Ed Pawlowski wrote in
:

On Mon, 05 Nov 2012 05:13:36 -0600, CRNG wrote:



Utility workers pelted with eggs
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/11/02...orkers-report-
having-objects-thrown-at-them-by-residents/

and they deserve every bit of it.

Deserve it? How do you figure that? Crews go where they are sent. If
the crews worked for me, I'd pull them out of there and let the egg
******* freeze forever. Act like animals and you can live in the
wild. F 'em.

I'd say so too. But, Ed, as a CT resident you are probably aware of the
way the state and the utilities have been fighting over slow responses by
the utility companies. So, those egg throwers may have an extenuating
circumstance. Not condoning it at all, because the workers were just
sent by the managers, who were directed by upstairs, which should pay a
price IMO.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

Saul Bloom wrote in
:

On 11/5/2012 9:40 PM, Han wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote in
news:k78ql3 :

I'm sure there is an army of bean counters working for the utilities
planing to spend just enough on the infrastructure for it to
withstand average weather events. ^_^

And this liberal is proposing that the NJ BPU and the local and state
authorities should "encourage" the utilities to invest in better,
more "hardened" transmission lines and substations, and to maintain
properly the utility pole infrastructure. Perhaps that should cost
money, perhaps even big money, but that would be an investment, and
the rate payers would have to pay. Poor me.


The trees are the problem.

Trees fall on the lines and break them.

If we really want a more reliable grid, we need to remove the trees
growing near the lines.

Indeed, there are only 2 sure ways, underground or no trees. Neither
will happen, because the trees shade the homes, and underground is too
expensive. Judicious trimming is sometimes done, and everyone complains
about the damage to the trees that look real weird afterwards (the tree
trimmers aren't familiar with esthetics).

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On Tue, 06 Nov 2012 06:00:22 -0500, Saul Bloom
wrote:

On 11/5/2012 9:40 PM, Han wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote in news:k78ql3
:

I'm sure there is an army of bean counters working for the utilities
planing to spend just enough on the infrastructure for it to withstand
average weather events. ^_^

And this liberal is proposing that the NJ BPU and the local and state
authorities should "encourage" the utilities to invest in better, more
"hardened" transmission lines and substations, and to maintain properly the
utility pole infrastructure. Perhaps that should cost money, perhaps even
big money, but that would be an investment, and the rate payers would have
to pay. Poor me.


The trees are the problem.

Trees fall on the lines and break them.

If we really want a more reliable grid, we need to remove the trees
growing near the lines.

And the ocean-- a lot of the lines were pushed down by the ocean. we
should move/remove that, too.

Jim

Jim Elbrecht wrote in
:

On Tue, 06 Nov 2012 06:00:22 -0500, Saul Bloom
wrote:

On 11/5/2012 9:40 PM, Han wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote in
news:k78ql3 :

I'm sure there is an army of bean counters working for the
utilities planing to spend just enough on the infrastructure for it
to withstand average weather events. ^_^

And this liberal is proposing that the NJ BPU and the local and
state authorities should "encourage" the utilities to invest in
better, more "hardened" transmission lines and substations, and to
maintain properly the utility pole infrastructure. Perhaps that
should cost money, perhaps even big money, but that would be an
investment, and the rate payers would have to pay. Poor me.


The trees are the problem.

Trees fall on the lines and break them.

If we really want a more reliable grid, we need to remove the trees
growing near the lines.

And the ocean-- a lot of the lines were pushed down by the ocean. we
should move/remove that, too.

Jim

It was just stupid to have so much infrastructure in places where this
storm could reach it. Doesn't mean the sea has to moved. Only means you
have to make sure tunnels, electrical substations and emergency
generators can't possible get flooded like the ones in the subbasement of
the Manhattan VA that were supposed to protect the freezers with YEARS of
precious samples I collected. I am f'ing mad about that, though I am
retired and it isn't my problem anymore.


--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On Nov 6, 7:38*am, Han wrote:
Jim Elbrecht wrote :





On Tue, 06 Nov 2012 06:00:22 -0500, Saul Bloom
wrote:

On 11/5/2012 9:40 PM, Han wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote in
news:k78ql3 :

I'm sure there is an army of bean counters working for the
utilities planing to spend just enough on the infrastructure for it
to withstand average weather events. ^_^

And this liberal is proposing that the NJ BPU and the local and
state authorities should "encourage" the utilities to invest in
better, more "hardened" transmission lines and substations, and to
maintain properly the utility pole infrastructure. *Perhaps that
should cost money, perhaps even big money, but that would be an
investment, and the rate payers would have to pay. *Poor me.

The trees are the problem.

Trees fall on the lines and break them.

If we really want a more reliable grid, we need to remove the trees
growing near the lines.

And the ocean-- a lot of the lines were pushed down by the ocean. * we
should move/remove that, too.

Jim

It was just stupid to have so much infrastructure in places where this
storm could reach it. *Doesn't mean the sea has to moved. *Only means you
have to make sure tunnels, electrical substations and emergency
generators can't possible get flooded like the ones in the subbasement of
the Manhattan VA that were supposed to protect the freezers with YEARS of
precious samples I collected. *I am f'ing mad about that, though I am
retired and it isn't my problem anymore.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Perhaps they could just as easily point the finger at you and your
organization and say that it was you who didn't prepare adequately
by not putting important samples in sub-basements that can get
flooded to begin with. Or if you did, having sufficient pumps and
back-up generators to make sure they have a high probability of
survival.

As to making huge infrastructures like electric distribution able to
withstand 75 year events, I bet once the cost hits your utility bill
you'd have a very different opinion. I'm not saying some modest
improvements can't or shouldn't be made. Just that if you want
your power back on in less than a week from a storm that
statistically happens every 50 years or so, then it's going to cost
a whole lot of money.

I don't know about you, but I survived here in NJ just a few miles
from the ocean just fine with a generator for a week. And I think
JCPL did a very good job restoring power. I had crews from
Alabama working here. In one spot there were about 10 trucks
repairing a section of a few poles that were down. In that regard,
one of the most impressive photos I saw was of utility trucks
being loaded on C-17's in California. They had at least 8 cargo
planes ferrying them over here.

My house came out relatively well. Lost one big section of
shingles, about 15 x 4 ft and had some minor water damage
as a result. Two 35 year old trees came down, one blocked
the garage. The other would have crushed my den, but I got
lucky and it went the other way. Been busy cutting up firewood.

The shore here in NJ is devastated. By shore, I mean areas that
are mostly a few blocks from the water. IT was the tidal surge
that did most of the really bad damage, talking out whole
houses. I told folks that were new here at the shore that the
ocean has met the bay in hurricanes long past, but few can
comprehend that. It's happened before, creating new inlets,
closing others. This time it created an inlet right at the
Mantoloking bridge. That bridge goes across Barnegat Bay,
connecting the barrier island to land at that point. Right
where the bridge is, the ocean swept across to the bay,
creating a new inlet and submerging that end of the bridge.
Last cound I saw there were 25 houses gone in Mantoloking
and 25 so bad they have to be torn down. That's in a town
of just 525 or so very expensive homes.

Anyone interested in some good shots of the damage can
google "Mantoloking sandy images"

On 11/6/2012 5:44 AM, Han wrote:
Saul Bloom wrote in
:

On 11/5/2012 9:40 PM, Han wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote in
news:k78ql3 :

I'm sure there is an army of bean counters working for the utilities
planing to spend just enough on the infrastructure for it to
withstand average weather events. ^_^

And this liberal is proposing that the NJ BPU and the local and state
authorities should "encourage" the utilities to invest in better,
more "hardened" transmission lines and substations, and to maintain
properly the utility pole infrastructure. Perhaps that should cost
money, perhaps even big money, but that would be an investment, and
the rate payers would have to pay. Poor me.


The trees are the problem.

Trees fall on the lines and break them.

If we really want a more reliable grid, we need to remove the trees
growing near the lines.

Indeed, there are only 2 sure ways, underground or no trees. Neither
will happen, because the trees shade the homes, and underground is too
expensive. Judicious trimming is sometimes done, and everyone complains
about the damage to the trees that look real weird afterwards (the tree
trimmers aren't familiar with esthetics).


Send the tree trimmers to school and train them in art of Bonsai. ^_^

TDD

Han wrote:

No, we can't forget the pension funds that (in NJ) haven't been funded
for years. The gvnmt has just squirreled it away and spent it, the
former Dem gvnmt as well as the current Christie gvnmt. But that
wasn't my point. My point is not that the stock holders should be
stiffed (although, weren't they remiss in making sure their
investment was safe, from storms as well as other hazards?). My
point is that in order to have aproductive investment long term, one
should harden the capital invested, i.e. make sure that the utility
poles are not rotted and leaning, aren't in places where trucks and
buses can knock them over, have wiring that isn't about to part, and
have substations (quite an investment, each one) that aren't prone to
flooding. I'm fairly sure that would cost many millions to achieve,
but in the long run (if done right) would be cheaper than repairing
things on the scale we are doing now. Irene, freak snowstorm, Sandy,
the next nor'easter, etc.


1. How much will it cost to get the electrical power supply system in NY and
NJ back to where it was before the storm? Is $10 billion reasonable?

2. How much will it cost to "harden" the electrical power supply system and
how long will it take? Just guessing, $30 billion, five years of disruption
while they tear up the streets.

Now which is the more prudent financial tack: $10 billion every 100 years or
$30 billion one time?

To tell the truth, it might be cheaper for the power companies to supply
each householder with a portable generator rather than harden the system!

Before you gasp, some thought has been given to "mini-grids," that is, each
neighborhood wired to its own separate power distribution system that can be
supplied from the big grid or a honkin' genset.