On Oct 16, 5:20*pm, gregz wrote:
"Ralph Mowery" wrote:
wrote in message
.. .
.

Harry K
Got little if anything to do with car thefts - it is an exhaust
emission/air quality thing.

Charlotte NC said it was a car theft thing when they passed a law you could
not leave a parked car running *without the driver in it. *They did not
mention air quality even though it is the largest city in the state.

How often does a car sit idling in a lot, while millions sit halted in
traffic.

Greg

did you somehow miss the "unattended" part?

Harry K

On Tue, 16 Oct 2012 22:53:49 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 10/16/2012 10:21 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Tue, 16 Oct 2012 19:57:32 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 10/16/2012 6:07 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Tue, 16 Oct 2012 15:12:34 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Tue, 16 Oct 2012 12:31:19 -0400, "Ralph Mowery"
wrote:


wrote in message
...
.

Harry K
Got little if anything to do with car thefts - it is an exhaust
emission/air quality thing.

Charlotte NC said it was a car theft thing when they passed a law you could
not leave a parked car running without the driver in it. They did not
mention air quality even though it is the largest city in the state.


I've seen both emissions and theft given as the reason. Emissions
doesn't make much sense, because you can be sitting in the car and
then you're permitted to "emit."

You want greenies to make sense? LOL! It's also a noise thing. Presumably,
when you're in the car, you have a reason to be there. The car is idling for
"no reason". Trucks often idle overnight, so the law is passed to make idling
illegal.

The laws/regs I've seen about it usually say something like "idling
unattended with keys in the ignition."

Different law, different reasons.

It's was a bad practice anyway when cars would sometimes shift out of
neutral and take off.

How does a car shift out of neutral on its own? An automatic should be in
park and a manual shifting by itself?

I don't like it because it's bad for the engine. Runs richer longer
in the winter than just driving away, which warms the engine faster.

With fuel injection, it shouldn't run rich6 for very long and you really don't
want to drive it until it's at least off "high idle".

Where it's hot, opening the door and windows when you start out is
probably 5 times more efficient and faster than asking the A/C to heat
up 140 degree air.

Works well enough for me.

Remote start is really totally unnecessary and a simple luxury.
No different than granite counters or diamond jewelry.
My wife has used it on one of our cars in the winter before I
convinced her to start parking it in our unheated garage.

You say that like luxuries are bad things? That's what most of us work for.

That car is gone now, and I would never have an aftermarket remote
start installed, because it complicates the electrical system and a
fault like a bad connection can strand you or cause other issues.
If it's in the car you buy, you might just be stuck with it.

It's always an option (on the few cars it's offered on at all).


I usually read everything I get my hands on when I have to sit and wait
somewhere like a doctor's office. I was at a truck stop one day waiting
for something or other and I picked up a trucker's magazine which had an
article about states and municipalities passing laws prohibiting trucks
being left idling. The enforcers were going after trucks that were
waiting to be unloaded in various shipping areas like shipyards. The
solution is APU's for trucks which are not considered illegal to run.
The drivers were leaving their trucks idling to keep them warm/cool
inside the cab/sleeper depending on the weather and to run their
computers and entertainment gear, etc. A lot of truckers are installing
auxiliary power units in their trucks to keep from running afoul of the
law. ^_^

Truckers often leave their trucks idling because they won't start if shut down
for the night. ****es the neighbors off mightily so laws get passed. Usually
silly laws.


The APU's are small diesels and they can keep the main engine warm
through sharing the big engine's cooling system or making electricity
for engine heaters. ^_^

TDD
On my kid brother's old Kenworth we plumbed an RV water heater into
the cooling system, along with a circulator pump and a second heater
core in the sleeper. It worked as an overnight heater to keep the bunk
warm, and also worked as an engine pre-heater. Previously he had to
leave the truck idling when he was home at the farm or he could not
start the truck (no way to get power to the truck to run electric
block heates etc) in cold winter weather. The propane boiler would
have the truck up to operating temperature in less than 4 hours.

On 10/17/2012 6:59 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 16 Oct 2012 22:53:49 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 10/16/2012 10:21 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Tue, 16 Oct 2012 19:57:32 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 10/16/2012 6:07 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Tue, 16 Oct 2012 15:12:34 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Tue, 16 Oct 2012 12:31:19 -0400, "Ralph Mowery"
wrote:


wrote in message
...
.

Harry K
Got little if anything to do with car thefts - it is an exhaust
emission/air quality thing.

Charlotte NC said it was a car theft thing when they passed a law you could
not leave a parked car running without the driver in it. They did not
mention air quality even though it is the largest city in the state.


I've seen both emissions and theft given as the reason. Emissions
doesn't make much sense, because you can be sitting in the car and
then you're permitted to "emit."

You want greenies to make sense? LOL! It's also a noise thing. Presumably,
when you're in the car, you have a reason to be there. The car is idling for
"no reason". Trucks often idle overnight, so the law is passed to make idling
illegal.

The laws/regs I've seen about it usually say something like "idling
unattended with keys in the ignition."

Different law, different reasons.

It's was a bad practice anyway when cars would sometimes shift out of
neutral and take off.

How does a car shift out of neutral on its own? An automatic should be in
park and a manual shifting by itself?

I don't like it because it's bad for the engine. Runs richer longer
in the winter than just driving away, which warms the engine faster.

With fuel injection, it shouldn't run rich6 for very long and you really don't
want to drive it until it's at least off "high idle".

Where it's hot, opening the door and windows when you start out is
probably 5 times more efficient and faster than asking the A/C to heat
up 140 degree air.

Works well enough for me.

Remote start is really totally unnecessary and a simple luxury.
No different than granite counters or diamond jewelry.
My wife has used it on one of our cars in the winter before I
convinced her to start parking it in our unheated garage.

You say that like luxuries are bad things? That's what most of us work for.

That car is gone now, and I would never have an aftermarket remote
start installed, because it complicates the electrical system and a
fault like a bad connection can strand you or cause other issues.
If it's in the car you buy, you might just be stuck with it.

It's always an option (on the few cars it's offered on at all).


I usually read everything I get my hands on when I have to sit and wait
somewhere like a doctor's office. I was at a truck stop one day waiting
for something or other and I picked up a trucker's magazine which had an
article about states and municipalities passing laws prohibiting trucks
being left idling. The enforcers were going after trucks that were
waiting to be unloaded in various shipping areas like shipyards. The
solution is APU's for trucks which are not considered illegal to run.
The drivers were leaving their trucks idling to keep them warm/cool
inside the cab/sleeper depending on the weather and to run their
computers and entertainment gear, etc. A lot of truckers are installing
auxiliary power units in their trucks to keep from running afoul of the
law. ^_^

Truckers often leave their trucks idling because they won't start if shut down
for the night. ****es the neighbors off mightily so laws get passed. Usually
silly laws.


The APU's are small diesels and they can keep the main engine warm
through sharing the big engine's cooling system or making electricity
for engine heaters. ^_^

TDD
On my kid brother's old Kenworth we plumbed an RV water heater into
the cooling system, along with a circulator pump and a second heater
core in the sleeper. It worked as an overnight heater to keep the bunk
warm, and also worked as an engine pre-heater. Previously he had to
leave the truck idling when he was home at the farm or he could not
start the truck (no way to get power to the truck to run electric
block heates etc) in cold winter weather. The propane boiler would
have the truck up to operating temperature in less than 4 hours.


Do you remember the gasoline burning heaters for VW Beetles for cold
weather because the heat from the air cooled engine was insufficient
to heat the passenger compartment? I remember reading about a factory
installed unit and a J.C. Whitney kit for the little cars. ^_^

TDD

On Wed, 17 Oct 2012 21:06:00 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 10/17/2012 6:59 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 16 Oct 2012 22:53:49 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 10/16/2012 10:21 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Tue, 16 Oct 2012 19:57:32 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 10/16/2012 6:07 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Tue, 16 Oct 2012 15:12:34 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Tue, 16 Oct 2012 12:31:19 -0400, "Ralph Mowery"
wrote:


wrote in message
...
.

Harry K
Got little if anything to do with car thefts - it is an exhaust
emission/air quality thing.

Charlotte NC said it was a car theft thing when they passed a law you could
not leave a parked car running without the driver in it. They did not
mention air quality even though it is the largest city in the state.


I've seen both emissions and theft given as the reason. Emissions
doesn't make much sense, because you can be sitting in the car and
then you're permitted to "emit."

You want greenies to make sense? LOL! It's also a noise thing. Presumably,
when you're in the car, you have a reason to be there. The car is idling for
"no reason". Trucks often idle overnight, so the law is passed to make idling
illegal.

The laws/regs I've seen about it usually say something like "idling
unattended with keys in the ignition."

Different law, different reasons.

It's was a bad practice anyway when cars would sometimes shift out of
neutral and take off.

How does a car shift out of neutral on its own? An automatic should be in
park and a manual shifting by itself?

I don't like it because it's bad for the engine. Runs richer longer
in the winter than just driving away, which warms the engine faster.

With fuel injection, it shouldn't run rich6 for very long and you really don't
want to drive it until it's at least off "high idle".

Where it's hot, opening the door and windows when you start out is
probably 5 times more efficient and faster than asking the A/C to heat
up 140 degree air.

Works well enough for me.

Remote start is really totally unnecessary and a simple luxury.
No different than granite counters or diamond jewelry.
My wife has used it on one of our cars in the winter before I
convinced her to start parking it in our unheated garage.

You say that like luxuries are bad things? That's what most of us work for.

That car is gone now, and I would never have an aftermarket remote
start installed, because it complicates the electrical system and a
fault like a bad connection can strand you or cause other issues.
If it's in the car you buy, you might just be stuck with it.

It's always an option (on the few cars it's offered on at all).


I usually read everything I get my hands on when I have to sit and wait
somewhere like a doctor's office. I was at a truck stop one day waiting
for something or other and I picked up a trucker's magazine which had an
article about states and municipalities passing laws prohibiting trucks
being left idling. The enforcers were going after trucks that were
waiting to be unloaded in various shipping areas like shipyards. The
solution is APU's for trucks which are not considered illegal to run.
The drivers were leaving their trucks idling to keep them warm/cool
inside the cab/sleeper depending on the weather and to run their
computers and entertainment gear, etc. A lot of truckers are installing
auxiliary power units in their trucks to keep from running afoul of the
law. ^_^

Truckers often leave their trucks idling because they won't start if shut down
for the night. ****es the neighbors off mightily so laws get passed. Usually
silly laws.


The APU's are small diesels and they can keep the main engine warm
through sharing the big engine's cooling system or making electricity
for engine heaters. ^_^

TDD
On my kid brother's old Kenworth we plumbed an RV water heater into
the cooling system, along with a circulator pump and a second heater
core in the sleeper. It worked as an overnight heater to keep the bunk
warm, and also worked as an engine pre-heater. Previously he had to
leave the truck idling when he was home at the farm or he could not
start the truck (no way to get power to the truck to run electric
block heates etc) in cold winter weather. The propane boiler would
have the truck up to operating temperature in less than 4 hours.


Do you remember the gasoline burning heaters for VW Beetles for cold
weather because the heat from the air cooled engine was insufficient
to heat the passenger compartment? I remember reading about a factory
installed unit and a J.C. Whitney kit for the little cars. ^_^

TDD
I've worked on more than a few. They worked good for a couple of
years - then got flakey. Replace spark plug, clean orifice, replace
exhaust -

Pretty big ones under the floor on the Combi /Westy too.

No good for heating the engine though.

On Wed, 17 Oct 2012 21:06:00 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 10/17/2012 6:59 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 16 Oct 2012 22:53:49 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 10/16/2012 10:21 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Tue, 16 Oct 2012 19:57:32 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 10/16/2012 6:07 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Tue, 16 Oct 2012 15:12:34 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Tue, 16 Oct 2012 12:31:19 -0400, "Ralph Mowery"
wrote:


wrote in message
...
.

Harry K
Got little if anything to do with car thefts - it is an exhaust
emission/air quality thing.

Charlotte NC said it was a car theft thing when they passed a law you could
not leave a parked car running without the driver in it. They did not
mention air quality even though it is the largest city in the state.


I've seen both emissions and theft given as the reason. Emissions
doesn't make much sense, because you can be sitting in the car and
then you're permitted to "emit."

You want greenies to make sense? LOL! It's also a noise thing. Presumably,
when you're in the car, you have a reason to be there. The car is idling for
"no reason". Trucks often idle overnight, so the law is passed to make idling
illegal.

The laws/regs I've seen about it usually say something like "idling
unattended with keys in the ignition."

Different law, different reasons.

It's was a bad practice anyway when cars would sometimes shift out of
neutral and take off.

How does a car shift out of neutral on its own? An automatic should be in
park and a manual shifting by itself?

I don't like it because it's bad for the engine. Runs richer longer
in the winter than just driving away, which warms the engine faster.

With fuel injection, it shouldn't run rich6 for very long and you really don't
want to drive it until it's at least off "high idle".

Where it's hot, opening the door and windows when you start out is
probably 5 times more efficient and faster than asking the A/C to heat
up 140 degree air.

Works well enough for me.

Remote start is really totally unnecessary and a simple luxury.
No different than granite counters or diamond jewelry.
My wife has used it on one of our cars in the winter before I
convinced her to start parking it in our unheated garage.

You say that like luxuries are bad things? That's what most of us work for.

That car is gone now, and I would never have an aftermarket remote
start installed, because it complicates the electrical system and a
fault like a bad connection can strand you or cause other issues.
If it's in the car you buy, you might just be stuck with it.

It's always an option (on the few cars it's offered on at all).


I usually read everything I get my hands on when I have to sit and wait
somewhere like a doctor's office. I was at a truck stop one day waiting
for something or other and I picked up a trucker's magazine which had an
article about states and municipalities passing laws prohibiting trucks
being left idling. The enforcers were going after trucks that were
waiting to be unloaded in various shipping areas like shipyards. The
solution is APU's for trucks which are not considered illegal to run.
The drivers were leaving their trucks idling to keep them warm/cool
inside the cab/sleeper depending on the weather and to run their
computers and entertainment gear, etc. A lot of truckers are installing
auxiliary power units in their trucks to keep from running afoul of the
law. ^_^

Truckers often leave their trucks idling because they won't start if shut down
for the night. ****es the neighbors off mightily so laws get passed. Usually
silly laws.


The APU's are small diesels and they can keep the main engine warm
through sharing the big engine's cooling system or making electricity
for engine heaters. ^_^

TDD
On my kid brother's old Kenworth we plumbed an RV water heater into
the cooling system, along with a circulator pump and a second heater
core in the sleeper. It worked as an overnight heater to keep the bunk
warm, and also worked as an engine pre-heater. Previously he had to
leave the truck idling when he was home at the farm or he could not
start the truck (no way to get power to the truck to run electric
block heates etc) in cold winter weather. The propane boiler would
have the truck up to operating temperature in less than 4 hours.


Do you remember the gasoline burning heaters for VW Beetles for cold
weather because the heat from the air cooled engine was insufficient
to heat the passenger compartment? I remember reading about a factory
installed unit and a J.C. Whitney kit for the little cars. ^_^

I remember wanting one for my brother's beetle, when he lived in Minneapolis.
I was visiting him over the New Years holiday, when it was -30 every night
with highs about -10F. You'd have to drive with an ice scraper and gear shift
in your right hand.