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Old October 4th 12, 12:41 AM posted to alt.home.repair
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Default You seen one bag of mortar, seen'em all??


Looking to patch up my stone walls, between stones. Was at HD today, must
be a half-dozen or more types of mortar -- or, iiuc, "sandmix".

Is there any type/brand particularly good for patching stone walls? Any
particular prep? I figger I'll clean out the patch areas with a garden
hose, etc. How to get the stuff on/in the vertical wall face is the next
challenge..... Any tips?

Along these lines (and of a previous post), I bought two different types of
grout, sanded and unsanded. Sanded is like a fine mortar (iiuc), and
unsanded is, I presume, very fine particles that don't quite qualify as
sand. The former is for gaps 1/8 to 1/2", the latter up to 1/8". So that
should cover various slate-type, step repairs, with fine-ish cracks.

Someone had suggested thinset, but the cart was already getting hard to
push....

So between the the two grouts and the mortar mix (Sakrete sumpn or other --
I saw the Mexicans buying it, so I figgered, when in Rome, do like the
Romans..... LOL), I should have a variety of joint/patch sizes covered.

I also bought some colorant, should my artistic/feminine side peek
through....
--
EA




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Old October 4th 12, 01:23 AM posted to alt.home.repair
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Default You seen one bag of mortar, seen'em all??

On Wed, 3 Oct 2012 19:41:49 -0400, "Existential Angst"
wrote:


Looking to patch up my stone walls, between stones. Was at HD today, must
be a half-dozen or more types of mortar -- or, iiuc, "sandmix".

Is there any type/brand particularly good for patching stone walls? Any
particular prep? I figger I'll clean out the patch areas with a garden
hose, etc. How to get the stuff on/in the vertical wall face is the next
challenge..... Any tips?

Along these lines (and of a previous post), I bought two different types of
grout, sanded and unsanded. Sanded is like a fine mortar (iiuc), and
unsanded is, I presume, very fine particles that don't quite qualify as
sand. The former is for gaps 1/8 to 1/2", the latter up to 1/8". So that
should cover various slate-type, step repairs, with fine-ish cracks.

Someone had suggested thinset, but the cart was already getting hard to
push....

So between the the two grouts and the mortar mix (Sakrete sumpn or other --
I saw the Mexicans buying it, so I figgered, when in Rome, do like the
Romans..... LOL), I should have a variety of joint/patch sizes covered.

I also bought some colorant, should my artistic/feminine side peek
through....


I don't have a specific recommendation for you, but you need to choose
mortar type carefully when tuckpointing. You want the mortar to be
softer than the stone. You don't say what type of wall (basement,
retaining, exterior???) or how old the wall is. On old walls lime
mortar (lime and sand) rather than cement based mortar is often used
because it is softer and won't spall the stone. Most of the bagged
mixes at the borg will be portland cement based.

A little google search for mortar mix for tuckpointing stone should
provide useful info.

You can use a mortar bag for tuckpointing but most just load up a hawk
and use a small trowel to pack the joints.

HTH,

Paul F.
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Old October 4th 12, 06:26 AM posted to alt.home.repair
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Default You seen one bag of mortar, seen'em all??

On Wednesday, October 3, 2012 4:41:46 PM UTC-7, Existential Angst wrote:

Looking to patch up my stone walls, between stones. Was at
HD today, must be a half-dozen or more types of mortar -- or,
iiuc, "sandmix". Is there any type/brand particularly good
for patching stone walls? Any particular prep? I figger I'll
clean out the patch areas with a garden hose, etc. How to get
the stuff on/in the vertical wall face is the next challenge.....
Any tips? Along these lines (and of a previous post), I bought
two different types of grout, sanded and unsanded. Sanded is
like a fine mortar (iiuc), and unsanded is, I presume, very
fine particles that don't quite qualify as sand. The former is
for gaps 1/8 to 1/2", the latter up to 1/8". So that should
cover various slate-type, step repairs, with fine-ish cracks.


Mortar is usually sold in grades M (strongest), S, and N (weakest), and building walls generally need type S. It's not a good idea to use type M because it's stronger than the bricks. If you see pre-mixed mortar with no grade letter on it, assume it's type N, which is not up to code for buildings or high walls. I ended up going to a masonry supply because the person at the home center (not Home Depot or Lowe's) didn't know anything and claimed type N was the strongest mortar. The masonry supply charged the same as the home center.

I found it was easier to fill the joints from a grout bag (like a cake decorating bag, only much bigger and made of naugahyde vinyl upholstery) rather than pushing it in with a trowel from a hawk, especially vertical joints. Most grout bags are sold with a steel nozzle, but its opening is so small the mortar won't flow out, so I use the bag without it. Finish the joints the normal way, with a striker or trowel tip.
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Old October 4th 12, 01:46 PM posted to alt.home.repair
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Default You seen one bag of mortar, seen'em all??

wrote:

On Wednesday, October 3, 2012 4:41:46 PM UTC-7, Existential Angst wrote:

Looking to patch up my stone walls, between stones. Was at
HD today, must be a half-dozen or more types of mortar -- or,
iiuc, "sandmix". Is there any type/brand particularly good
for patching stone walls? Any particular prep? I figger I'll
clean out the patch areas with a garden hose, etc. How to get
the stuff on/in the vertical wall face is the next challenge.....
Any tips? Along these lines (and of a previous post), I bought
two different types of grout, sanded and unsanded. Sanded is
like a fine mortar (iiuc), and unsanded is, I presume, very
fine particles that don't quite qualify as sand. The former is
for gaps 1/8 to 1/2", the latter up to 1/8". So that should
cover various slate-type, step repairs, with fine-ish cracks.


Mortar is usually sold in grades M (strongest), S, and N (weakest), and building walls generally need type S.


Leave that to drive the point home--

-snip-

I found it was easier to fill the joints from a grout bag (like a cake decorating bag, only
much bigger and made of naugahyde vinyl upholstery) rather than pushing it in with a
trowel from a hawk, especially vertical joints. Most grout bags are sold with a steel nozzle,
but its opening is so small the mortar won't flow out, so I use the bag without it. Finish
the joints the normal way, with a striker or trowel tip.


I like the grout bag, too.

If there isn't much to do-- I like this stuff, too.
http://kk.org/cooltools/archives/4031

Quikrete mortar in a caulk tube. It was the nuts when I repointed
my chimneys 6 years ago. I haven't gone up there, since, But I've
checked it out from the ground with binoculars and you can't tell what
is patch and what is original. [I used 10-15 tubes on 2 chimneys-.]

If you've got a huge job you might look at pointing guns- I think they
run 50-100 bucks, but are easier to handle than a mortar bag.

Jim
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Old October 4th 12, 02:36 PM posted to alt.home.repair
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Default You seen one bag of mortar, seen'em all??

Existential Angst wrote:

Along these lines (and of a previous post), I bought two different
types of grout, sanded and unsanded. Sanded is like a fine mortar
(iiuc), and unsanded is, I presume, very fine particles that don't
quite qualify as sand. The former is for gaps 1/8 to 1/2", the
latter up to 1/8". So that should cover various slate-type, step
repairs, with fine-ish cracks.
Someone had suggested thinset, but the cart was already getting hard
to push....


You should have put back the two bags of grout - neither of which is what
you need - and gotten the thinset.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

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Maybe just ready for a change? Check it out...
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Old October 4th 12, 04:16 PM posted to alt.home.repair
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Default You seen one bag of mortar, seen'em all??

"dadiOH" wrote in message
...
Existential Angst wrote:

Along these lines (and of a previous post), I bought two different
types of grout, sanded and unsanded. Sanded is like a fine mortar
(iiuc), and unsanded is, I presume, very fine particles that don't
quite qualify as sand. The former is for gaps 1/8 to 1/2", the
latter up to 1/8". So that should cover various slate-type, step
repairs, with fine-ish cracks.
Someone had suggested thinset, but the cart was already getting hard
to push....


You should have put back the two bags of grout - neither of which is what
you need - and gotten the thinset.


Well, I didn't open them yet....

The reason I didn't get the thinset was because there were *so many*
versions, I just didn't know which one to get.
They made a lot of pre-mixed thinset in buckets, along with the bags. What
in particular should I look for?

Bear in mind that I have three types of repairs:
missing mortar in a stone wall, on the order of cubic inches of volume per
patch;
spaces in flagstone on top of a stone wall (1/8-1/2" wide), and slate
walkway cracks of about the same;
and very fine cracks around existing slates/mortar in the walkway, patio,
porch.

Will thinset do ALL of this, or just the finer cracks?
--
EA





--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Maybe just ready for a change? Check it out...
http://www.floridaloghouse.net



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Old October 4th 12, 06:02 PM posted to alt.home.repair
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Default You seen one bag of mortar, seen'em all??

"Existential Angst" wrote:
-snip-

Bear in mind that I have three types of repairs:


IMO--
missing mortar in a stone wall, on the order of cubic inches of volume per
patch;

Type S mortar
spaces in flagstone on top of a stone wall (1/8-1/2" wide), and slate
walkway cracks of about the same;

If that mortar grout matches, I might use it here-- otherwise Type S

and very fine cracks around existing slates/mortar in the walkway, patio,
porch.


I wouldn't touch them. Wait until they are big enough to risk the
mess. [or rip them out and re-grout if they bother you]


Will thinset do ALL of this, or just the finer cracks?


I'd only use thinset to level and bond- never to patch.
[I am *not* a professional- maybe they would]

Jim
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Old October 4th 12, 06:33 PM posted to alt.home.repair
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Default You seen one bag of mortar, seen'em all??

Existential Angst wrote:
"dadiOH" wrote in message
...
Existential Angst wrote:

Along these lines (and of a previous post), I bought two different
types of grout, sanded and unsanded. Sanded is like a fine mortar
(iiuc), and unsanded is, I presume, very fine particles that don't
quite qualify as sand. The former is for gaps 1/8 to 1/2", the
latter up to 1/8". So that should cover various slate-type, step
repairs, with fine-ish cracks.
Someone had suggested thinset, but the cart was already getting hard
to push....


You should have put back the two bags of grout - neither of which is
what you need - and gotten the thinset.


Well, I didn't open them yet....

The reason I didn't get the thinset was because there were *so many*
versions, I just didn't know which one to get.
They made a lot of pre-mixed thinset in buckets, along with the bags.
What in particular should I look for?

Bear in mind that I have three types of repairs:
missing mortar in a stone wall, on the order of cubic inches of
volume per patch;
spaces in flagstone on top of a stone wall (1/8-1/2" wide), and slate
walkway cracks of about the same;
and very fine cracks around existing slates/mortar in the walkway,
patio, porch.

Will thinset do ALL of this, or just the finer cracks?


I originally suggested thinset because you were having a problem getting
regular mortar to stick on your vertical surfaces. I do too. I used
thinset 2-3 years ago to stucco over a concrete block garden wall to hide
the joints. The wall is about 7' tall by about 50' long. The thickness of
the thinset is probably no more than 1/4". It worked well and there have
been no problems. As explained earlier, I used it to repair some parts of
cap blocks on a garden wall. Pieces had been knocked off by falling limbs
during a hurricane. Those repairs were up to 1 1/2" thick and 1-2" wide.
Length varied from maybe 1" to 7-8". That was at least 5 years ago and
those repairs too are just fine.

Thinset should work fine for all your repairs; the one possible exception is
the very fine cracks in the walkway, patio, porch. Whether or not it will
work for those depends upon how fine and deep they are...if you can get
thinset in them to a reasonable depth it will work just fine.

There is no such thing as pre-mixed thinset. Thinset is a cementatious
material and when water is added the water starts a chemical reaction and
the thinset hardens. It will be hard overnight but will take about a month
to reach maximum strength. The stuff in buckets is an organic paste
material. You don't want it.

Regular type m/n/s mortar has sand in it and has a gritty appearance when
dried. Thinset dries smooth. If you need a gritty appearance in the larger
joints to match better with the existing material, add some sand to the
thinset. Or, do the repair and rub some sand in while the thinset is still
plastic.

As you noted, there are various versions of thinset; they are thinset with
additives. I have never encountered a need for any additive and buy plain
old thinset. At Home Depot, it is called "Custom Blend" and sells for about
$6.00 per 50 pound (down from 60#) bag.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Maybe just ready for a change? Check it out...
http://www.floridaloghouse.net


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Old October 4th 12, 10:38 PM posted to alt.home.repair
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Default You seen one bag of mortar, seen'em all??



--

--
Kristofer Hogg
http://www.CEEGYNY.ORG
"Existential Angst" wrote in message
...

Looking to patch up my stone walls, between stones. Was at HD today, must
be a half-dozen or more types of mortar -- or, iiuc, "sandmix".

Is there any type/brand particularly good for patching stone walls? Any
particular prep? I figger I'll clean out the patch areas with a garden
hose, etc. How to get the stuff on/in the vertical wall face is the next
challenge..... Any tips?

Along these lines (and of a previous post), I bought two different types
of grout, sanded and unsanded. Sanded is like a fine mortar (iiuc), and
unsanded is, I presume, very fine particles that don't quite qualify as
sand. The former is for gaps 1/8 to 1/2", the latter up to 1/8". So that
should cover various slate-type, step repairs, with fine-ish cracks.

Someone had suggested thinset, but the cart was already getting hard to
push....

So between the the two grouts and the mortar mix (Sakrete sumpn or
other -- I saw the Mexicans buying it, so I figgered, when in Rome, do
like the Romans..... LOL), I should have a variety of joint/patch sizes
covered.

I also bought some colorant, should my artistic/feminine side peek
through....


Holy ****.... check this out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdG87spjvW8 pnu-point repointing gun.
pnupoint.com, from the Brits.
http://www.pnupoint.co.uk/store/ holy ****.... $450!!!!

An auger-gun http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbOsSPdRdhQ

Electric caulking gun:y:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzIow...feature=fvwrel not for masonry,
but neat anyway.

Well, I guess it's a grout bag for Moi....

But I have another idea:
Since I have all sorts of tubing, mebbe a simple 1" tube (3/4"+ id) with
something of a plunger could be used to apply the mortar to the wall. Put
the mortar in a longish tub ( I have one of them plastic jobbies), just
scoop the tube in, and plunge the stuff out where you want it.
I'd use the mortar bag for finer applications.
We'll see what happens.... I'd pull out a fingernail to avoid this job, but
even that would just postpone things...
--
EA







--
EA





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Old October 5th 12, 01:12 PM posted to alt.home.repair
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Default You seen one bag of mortar, seen'em all??

Existential Angst wrote:

Well, I guess it's a grout bag for Moi....

But I have another idea:
Since I have all sorts of tubing, mebbe a simple 1" tube (3/4"+ id)
with something of a plunger could be used to apply the mortar to the
wall. Put the mortar in a longish tub ( I have one of them plastic
jobbies), just scoop the tube in, and plunge the stuff out where you
want it.


Good luck in getting a meaningful amount of mortar into the tube/pipe.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Maybe just ready for a change? Check it out...
http://www.floridaloghouse.net




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