I picked up a Rocketdish RocketM2 radio for WiFi reception and tried to
mount it on an old Dish-TV antenna arm.
http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...mg/9047632.jpg

The problem is it's about six inches too short (see picture above).

I had planned on bolting this to the wood boards framing the edge of a
tile roof (without going on the roof itself).

Advice sought:
a) Would you just extend the mast with a pipe?
b) Would you buy a new mast (from where)?
c) Is there another trick I can't think of?

I'm hoping a clever idea will pop out of this.

Otherwise, I'll just buy a new antenna arm and make sure it's longer
somehow!

On Fri, 24 Aug 2012 06:53:38 +0000 (UTC), "J.G."
wrote:

I picked up a Rocketdish RocketM2 radio for WiFi reception and tried to
mount it on an old Dish-TV antenna arm.
http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...mg/9047632.jpg

The problem is it's about six inches too short (see picture above).

a) Would you just extend the mast with a pipe?


Yes, but it has to be a solid fit or welded to withstand wind.

see a muffler shop where they bend pipe custom making the pipes for
each vehicle

On 8/24/12 1:53 AM, J.G. wrote:
I picked up a Rocketdish RocketM2 radio for WiFi reception and tried to
mount it on an old Dish-TV antenna arm.
http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...mg/9047632.jpg

The problem is it's about six inches too short (see picture above).

I had planned on bolting this to the wood boards framing the edge of a
tile roof (without going on the roof itself).

Advice sought:
a) Would you just extend the mast with a pipe?
b) Would you buy a new mast (from where)?
c) Is there another trick I can't think of?

I'm hoping a clever idea will pop out of this.

Otherwise, I'll just buy a new antenna arm and make sure it's longer
somehow!


Someone mentioned a muffler shop and a pipe. Would a standard
plumbing pipe fit snugly in the existing bracket pipe? If so,
you could slide the plumbing pipe into the existing bracket pipe.
Cut some grooves in the existing pipe. Use a muffler clamp to squeeze
the two pipes together.

On 8/24/2012 2:53 AM, J.G. wrote:
I picked up a Rocketdish RocketM2 radio for WiFi reception and tried to
mount it on an old Dish-TV antenna arm.
http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...mg/9047632.jpg

The problem is it's about six inches too short (see picture above).

I had planned on bolting this to the wood boards framing the edge of a
tile roof (without going on the roof itself).

Advice sought:
a) Would you just extend the mast with a pipe?
b) Would you buy a new mast (from where)?
c) Is there another trick I can't think of?

I'm hoping a clever idea will pop out of this.

Otherwise, I'll just buy a new antenna arm and make sure it's longer
somehow!



On my own kit, I actually used a short piece of schedule 40 PVC, slipped
over the end and bolted through both pipes with washers. So far it has
served me well for 8yrs and held up through two hurricanes, but I have
no idea what your own localized weather situation is. Can't remember
anymore what size I used, believe it was 1 1/4", but you should be able
to figure it out.

Eventually, exposure to sun and elements will take a toll on exposed
PVC, but may work until you can come up with something better.

EMT would work just as well, last forever, but if ice and snow is an
issue, you should probably cap the end: you would not believe what
freezing can do to to metal pipe of any sort.

Worst case, purchase a length of similar sized EMT from almost any big
box or hardware store and either fashion a temporary pipe bending jig,
very simple, or find someone with an EMT bender and cut to length.

--
Digger
Bob O'Dell

Looks like the existing pipe is about an inch diameter. There has to be a
way to extend that, some how. Either with a pre formed piece that slips
over, or perhaps some kind of rod that slips into the existing tubing.

Got to be a way, but I've not really got any good ideas for this moment.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Dean Hoffman" " wrote in message
...
On 8/24/12 1:53 AM, J.G. wrote:
I picked up a Rocketdish RocketM2 radio for WiFi reception and tried to
mount it on an old Dish-TV antenna arm.
http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...mg/9047632.jpg

The problem is it's about six inches too short (see picture above).

I had planned on bolting this to the wood boards framing the edge of a
tile roof (without going on the roof itself).

Advice sought:
a) Would you just extend the mast with a pipe?
b) Would you buy a new mast (from where)?
c) Is there another trick I can't think of?

I'm hoping a clever idea will pop out of this.

Otherwise, I'll just buy a new antenna arm and make sure it's longer
somehow!


Someone mentioned a muffler shop and a pipe. Would a standard
plumbing pipe fit snugly in the existing bracket pipe? If so,
you could slide the plumbing pipe into the existing bracket pipe.
Cut some grooves in the existing pipe. Use a muffler clamp to squeeze
the two pipes together.

On 8/24/12 2:53 AM, J.G. wrote:
I picked up a Rocketdish RocketM2 radio for WiFi reception and tried to
mount it on an old Dish-TV antenna arm.
http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...mg/9047632.jpg

The problem is it's about six inches too short (see picture above).

I had planned on bolting this to the wood boards framing the edge of a
tile roof (without going on the roof itself).

Advice sought:
a) Would you just extend the mast with a pipe?
b) Would you buy a new mast (from where)?
c) Is there another trick I can't think of?

I'm hoping a clever idea will pop out of this.

Otherwise, I'll just buy a new antenna arm and make sure it's longer
somehow!



Use a mounting made for eaves/trim like this:

http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=2062039

On Fri, 24 Aug 2012 06:53:38 +0000 (UTC), "J.G."
wrote:

I picked up a Rocketdish RocketM2 radio for WiFi reception and tried to
mount it on an old Dish-TV antenna arm.
http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...mg/9047632.jpg

The problem is it's about six inches too short (see picture above).

Some ideas:
1. Muffler shop as others have suggested. You will need to paint it
properly if you expect the pipe to last.
2. Remove the bent pipe and drill holes in the short end to match the
pivot and locking bolts.
3. Purchase a proper "eave mount" satellite dish mounting kit:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882250051
https://www.google.com/search?q=satellite+dish+eave+mount&tbm=isch
4. Consider an "under eave mount" kit which is less likely to break.
http://www.eavemounts.com
http://www.asia.ru/en/ProductInfo/1134891.html
http://www.summitsource.com/images/products/MTPEV2.jpg
5. Non-penetrating roof mount if you want to move the dish around for
optimum positioning:
https://www.google.com/search?q=satellite+dish+non+penetrating+mount&tbm= isch
6. Consider another location or mounting method:
http://rapidmount.com/roofmounts.html

I had planned on bolting this to the wood boards framing the edge of a
tile roof (without going on the roof itself).

The eaves are usually rather thin but will work if you don't have a
rain gutter and add some reinforcing behind the eave. Another board
will work, but I prefer painted Unistrut.

a) Would you just extend the mast with a pipe?

You could if you have another piece of similar diameter pipe and a
welder. I've done this for one weird installation by taking two DBS
dish mounts and butt welding the ends together. Welding was easy.
Painting was not.

Someone suggested using PVC pipe. That will work for wi-fi because
antenna aiming is far less critical than Ku band. Pound or glue a
piece of schedule 40 pipe into the end of the existing mount. You may
need to build up the PVC to the same diameter as the steel pipe or
antenna aiming might be a bit clumsy.

b) Would you buy a new mast (from where)?

Not just a new mast, but also a new mount. I'm partial to the "under
eave mount" method.

c) Is there another trick I can't think of?
I'm hoping a clever idea will pop out of this.

Clever tricks have a habit of backfiring. Search Google Images for
photos of "tile roof antenna mount" or "eave antenna mount" and look
for something similar to your situation.

Otherwise, I'll just buy a new antenna arm and make sure it's longer
somehow!


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Fri, 24 Aug 2012 08:06:56 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

2. Remove the bent pipe and drill holes in the short end to match the
pivot and locking bolts.

This seems the easiest. The angles will all change, and the Rocket is
heavy so it has to be strong enough. I probably have to screw it into one
of the cross-cut edges of the beams.

For the record, quite a few solutions were proposed which should work.

The first approach I will is drilling & reversing the J.
However that greatly changes the geometry, and may need side braces.
(DTV-AT9-SB Standard Short Brace for DIRECTV Slim Line Dish DTV-AT9-SB)
http://tinyurl.com/9cmr8l6

So the second approach is to find a SECOND Dish-TV J-arm and mount them
both on the wall, one ABOVE the dish and one BELOW (in opposite
directions) with the "tops" of the mounts almost touching each other.

The third approach will be to shove 1 1/4" EMT electrical conduit into
the short end of the j-arm and then weld it on or bolt it on.

On 8/24/2012 10:26 PM, J.G. wrote:
For the record, quite a few solutions were proposed which should work.

The first approach I will is drilling & reversing the J.
However that greatly changes the geometry, and may need side braces.
(DTV-AT9-SB Standard Short Brace for DIRECTV Slim Line Dish DTV-AT9-SB)
http://tinyurl.com/9cmr8l6

So the second approach is to find a SECOND Dish-TV J-arm and mount them
both on the wall, one ABOVE the dish and one BELOW (in opposite
directions) with the "tops" of the mounts almost touching each other.

The third approach will be to shove 1 1/4" EMT electrical conduit into
the short end of the j-arm and then weld it on or bolt it on.




Why not get a piece of pipe that will fit the Rocket mount, clamp it,
then use two more U-bolts to mount that pipe to the direct TV mast.

I got two of those Starband and Hughes satellite internet dishes for
free on Craigs. They have a very strong mount. What happens is in the
Santa Cruz mountains, as soon as a wired internet service shows up, they
junk the satellite internet gear. You can convert them to FTA, though in
your case, just use the tripod.

The tripods that come with sat internet are really strong. The LNB and
BUC combo is mighty heavy. Often the satellite internet dishes are still
on the homes but not being used.

Satellite internet is terrible. You can't get around the latency problem
unless you can cut a deal with Einstein.

On Sat, 25 Aug 2012 00:12:38 -0700, miso wrote:

Why not get a piece of pipe that will fit the Rocket mount, clamp it,
then use two more U-bolts to mount that pipe to the direct TV mast.

Yech. The spacing between the two U-bolts will be fairly small due to
the inadequate length of the short end of the satellite dish pipe. All
you've done is transfer the problem from the dish mount to the
U-bolts.

Also, U-bolts won't work. You need something like these to keep the
pipes parallel:
http://www.wpsantennas.com/ProductImages/antenex/fm3.jpg
http://www.deltaclub.org/mount_closeup.jpg
http://www.wpsantennas.com/fm2-antenna-pole-mount.aspx
The Radio Shack (Channel Master) vent pipe mount are junk.

I got two of those Starband and Hughes satellite internet dishes for
free on Craigs.

Reminder: Tile roof. Most of those mounts won't work unless you
drill the tile. It really does need to be something designed for eave
mounting.

Satellite internet is terrible. You can't get around the latency problem
unless you can cut a deal with Einstein.

If you don't do anything in realtime, it's tolerable. Exede (Wild
Blue), which uses Ka band and spot beams seems to be less disgusting
than the others.
http://www.wildblue.com
Einstein is not a stockholder. However, note the spot map at:
http://www.mybluedish.com/spot-beams
Note the south end of beam 21, which cuts through Monterey Bay. I
know of systems that work in the Aptos and Prunedale areas, but the
signal levels are lower than a few miles north in Santa Cruz. Grrrr...


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 8/25/2012 8:20 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 25 Aug 2012 00:12:38 -0700, miso wrote:

Why not get a piece of pipe that will fit the Rocket mount, clamp it,
then use two more U-bolts to mount that pipe to the direct TV mast.

Yech. The spacing between the two U-bolts will be fairly small due to
the inadequate length of the short end of the satellite dish pipe. All
you've done is transfer the problem from the dish mount to the
U-bolts.

Also, U-bolts won't work. You need something like these to keep the
pipes parallel:
http://www.wpsantennas.com/ProductImages/antenex/fm3.jpg
http://www.deltaclub.org/mount_closeup.jpg
http://www.wpsantennas.com/fm2-antenna-pole-mount.aspx
The Radio Shack (Channel Master) vent pipe mount are junk.

I got two of those Starband and Hughes satellite internet dishes for
free on Craigs.

Reminder: Tile roof. Most of those mounts won't work unless you
drill the tile. It really does need to be something designed for eave
mounting.

Satellite internet is terrible. You can't get around the latency problem
unless you can cut a deal with Einstein.

If you don't do anything in realtime, it's tolerable. Exede (Wild
Blue), which uses Ka band and spot beams seems to be less disgusting
than the others.
http://www.wildblue.com
Einstein is not a stockholder. However, note the spot map at:
http://www.mybluedish.com/spot-beams
Note the south end of beam 21, which cuts through Monterey Bay. I
know of systems that work in the Aptos and Prunedale areas, but the
signal levels are lower than a few miles north in Santa Cruz. Grrrr...



I didn't know those "double" mounts existed in real life. I have hacked
them together buying long bolts at OSH and COTS antenna mounts. But that
double clamp looks much better.

In my rounds today, I noticed a large sat dish on the roof at a strip
mall. No LNBF on it. I guess when a tenant leaves crap on the roof, the
owner pulls the cable out when cleaning up, but odd they pulled the
LNBF. Maybe the F-connectors had rusted and it was less work to pull the
LNBF.

It would be interesting to know the percentage of sat dishes mounted but
not hooked up. Anyway, it was one of those heavy duty mounts and a 36x24
oval dish.

I've run into sat internet gear hooked up to instrumentation in the
boonies. There are only so many "slots" on those GOES birds to send
data. For $50 a month, it is chump change for some outfit that is doing
seismic studies in East Bum****.

On Sat, 25 Aug 2012 21:25:14 -0700, miso wrote:

I didn't know those "double" mounts existed in real life.

Look on any decent vertical antenna mounting and you'll find them:
http://awapps.commscope.com/catalog/andrew/doc/Pipe_Mount_Kits.aspx?id=0000002%2Ft009_r02125_v0.p df
About $60/set.

Antenna Spec used to make a really fancy machined aluminum version
that I can't seem to find. That's what's needed to pipe mount a 21ft
Stationmaster or solid dish with a high wind loading.

I have hacked
them together buying long bolts at OSH and COTS antenna mounts. But that
double clamp looks much better.

What you really want is the thick zinc galvanizing. It's the dull
gray stuff you see on all the telephone pole hardware. It lasts. The
thin galvanizing on the commodity hardware doesn't last and often
rusts in place. I have a large pile of old Metricom hardware that is
similar to the APSR-616 but thinner and with 1/4-20 hardware. It's
functional for very small antennas, but nothing big and heavy.

In my rounds today, I noticed a large sat dish on the roof at a strip
mall. No LNBF on it. I guess when a tenant leaves crap on the roof, the
owner pulls the cable out when cleaning up, but odd they pulled the
LNBF. Maybe the F-connectors had rusted and it was less work to pull the
LNBF.

That's standard procedure. If it's a tenant occupied structure, such
as a gas station, or a rental, it's likely that the new tenants will
need to use the dish again. However, the LNB can be re-used
immediately at other customers, so it's removed and re-installed
elsewhere. If it's transmit/receive assembly, it's the most expensive
part and is usually removed immediately.

It would be interesting to know the percentage of sat dishes mounted but
not hooked up.

We have 3 in the neighborhood. One more (me) as I'm pulling the plug
on DirecTV. I'm paying $75/month, 30% of which goes for paying to
watch commercials.

Anyway, it was one of those heavy duty mounts and a 36x24
oval dish.

I've run into sat internet gear hooked up to instrumentation in the
boonies. There are only so many "slots" on those GOES birds to send
data. For $50 a month, it is chump change for some outfit that is doing
seismic studies in East Bum****.

Ku band is packed full. All the new stuff is on Ka band. At
30-40GHz, dish alignment and stability is rather critical.



--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Fri, 24 Aug 2012 06:25:37 -0500, Dean Hoffman
" wrote:

On 8/24/12 1:53 AM, J.G. wrote:
I picked up a Rocketdish RocketM2 radio for WiFi reception and tried to
mount it on an old Dish-TV antenna arm.
http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...mg/9047632.jpg

The problem is it's about six inches too short (see picture above).

I had planned on bolting this to the wood boards framing the edge of a
tile roof (without going on the roof itself).

Advice sought:
a) Would you just extend the mast with a pipe?
b) Would you buy a new mast (from where)?
c) Is there another trick I can't think of?

I'm hoping a clever idea will pop out of this.

Otherwise, I'll just buy a new antenna arm and make sure it's longer
somehow!


Someone mentioned a muffler shop and a pipe. Would a standard
plumbing pipe fit snugly in the existing bracket pipe? If so,
you could slide the plumbing pipe into the existing bracket pipe.
Cut some grooves in the existing pipe. Use a muffler clamp to squeeze
the two pipes together.

This may be too small of a pipe for common muffler clamps. If plumbing
pipe fits inside, either get it welded, or drill a hole thru both pipes
and put a bolt thru it. Around my area getting it welded if you supply
the extension pipe, would cost $10 or less at a professional welding
shop. Even if they charge $80 an hour, you're looking at a 5 minute job
and a buck or two for the welding wire. You cant buy a bracket for
that. Be sure to paint the weld to avoid rust stains on the house.

On Sat, 25 Aug 2012 00:12:38 -0700, miso wrote:

Satellite internet is terrible. You can't get around the latency problem
unless you can cut a deal with Einstein.

Satellite sucks with 700ms latencies & severe bandwidth limits; but it
does provide the Santa Cruz mountains with 10 Mbps to 20 Mbps if you go
with Viasat Exede Ka band (forget HughesNet, which is Ku band). Plus you
can't buy and set up your own equipment.

This antenna and radio I'm mounting is for 2.4 Ghz WiFi, which has to
handle a lot more noise - but otherwise it works fine at the 10Mbps to
20Mbps range up here in the Santa Cruz Mountains.

The alternative is 5Ghz equipment, depending on the WISP (e.g., Etheric)
but the drawback is you can't own and set up your own equipment.

Most of us up here in the mountains set up our own equipment. We're not
as smart as you guys but luckily the WISPs are all pretty good about it
(Surfnet, Hilltop, Ridgewireless, etc.). So we learn just enough to get
it working & for the kids not to kill us when it goes down.

On Sat, 25 Aug 2012 08:20:22 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Also, U-bolts won't work. You need something like these

Hi Jeff,
Thanks for the advice. You're a wonderful local resource!

I picked up a 10' length of 1" (ID) EMT conduit today (they don't have
any shorter lengths). I'll cut it about ten inches long, and push it in
about four inches and drill a crosswise hole in the mounting to bolt the
pipe into the J arm.

I might not even bolt it into the J arm if it feels sturdy.

Then I'll lag bolt (screw) it into the edge of the wood roof beams, which
should work. The trick is that they're forty feet up in the air (due to
the hillside being very steep at the fault line). I 'was' going to use
the balcony but this rocketdish is huuuuge!

Exede (Wild Blue), which uses Ka band and spot beams
seems to be less disgusting than the others.

Up here in the Santa Cruz Mountains, we'd ditch everything for cable; but
it's just not in the cards yet (even though we're practically in Silicon
Valley - you'd think we'd be wired!).

While nobody would even think of HugesNet (Ku band), a few neighbors have
started their two-year contract with Viasat Exede (Ka band). It's FAST,
about 12 to 18 Mbps down. Much slower up. But you just can't change the
latencies of 700ms to almost a second!

Even the guys on the two-year Viasat contracts are adding WiFi dishes so
that they have a backup line-of-sight system. The WISPs out here are all
good guys. They let me, for example, keep my dish pointing to them as an
emergency backup, just in case my other WISP goes down (which is frequent
with the winds & power outages around here). We all have backup
generators and the WISPS have battery backup - but it's for naught when
the antenna blows down.

I've mounted a few radio antenna but this new Rocketdish antenna & Rocket
M2 radio is the BIGGEST HEAVIEST I've ever mounted - so it's more of a
mechanical problem than the planar and smaller parabolic antennas I've
had in the past.

The biggest problem now is the 40-foot drop should I fall off the ladder!

On Sat, 25 Aug 2012 21:25:14 -0700, Jeff wrote:

http://www.deltaclub.org/mount_closeup.jpg

Beautiful closeup, by the way!

On Sat, 25 Aug 2012 08:20:22 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

http://www.wpsantennas.com/fm2-antenna-pole-mount.aspx

I noticed this has two sets of mounting holes, so that you can reverse
the short arm of the J.

I thought about drilling a second set of holes in the long end, but, I
worried about the cantilever being too far out in that case for the heavy
rocketdish (which is heavier than a dish tv antenna).

By adding about 10 inches of EMT tubing to the long end of the J, I'm
hoping not to change the geometry all that much. Of course, I have to
bolt (lag screws) it into something really solid!

In hind sight, it might have been easier to erect an ugly but straight
pipe in the ground!

On Sat, 25 Aug 2012 22:16:13 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

What you really want is the thick zinc galvanizing. It's the dull gray
stuff you see on all the telephone pole hardware. It lasts.

That's interesting!

I noticed most of the bolts that came with the Rocketdish were stainless
steel, except one set of bolts which was a dull gray for just the bottom
brace.
http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/...mg/9063158.jpg

BTW, WHAT is the purpose of the bottom brace anyway?

It is just to stop the antenna from sliding DOWN the mounting pole?

On Sun, 26 Aug 2012 03:17:40 -0500, fred.flintstone wrote:

This may be too small of a pipe for common muffler clamps. If plumbing
pipe fits inside, either get it welded, or drill a hole thru both pipes
and put a bolt thru it.

I went to Midas today. They have pipe that is EXACTLY the same size, but,
it MUST be welded (as you noted).

Just dropping the EMT pipe inside seems easier than welding. And stronger
if I bolt it in (as you also noted).

Today I picked up a 10-foot length of 1" EMT which fits loosely inside
the DirectTV J arm bracket. They don't sell smaller lengths!

On Sun, 26 Aug 2012 08:44:40 +0000 (UTC), "J.G."
wrote:

I noticed most of the bolts that came with the Rocketdish were stainless
steel, except one set of bolts which was a dull gray for just the bottom
brace.
http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/...mg/9063158.jpg

Are you sure they're stainless and not electroplated steel? Use a
magnet. I've been fooled a few times. If it sticks, it's
electroplated steel. If it doesn't, it's probably stainless. (Note:
There are magnetic stainless compositions, but they're not commonly
used for hardware).

BTW, WHAT is the purpose of the bottom brace anyway?

Some of the larger J mounts have additional support arms like this:
http://sadoun.com/Sat/Products/Winegard/superDmount-6.jpg
Looks like you have the mount, but not the arms.

It is just to stop the antenna from sliding DOWN the mounting pole?

No. The typical DBS dish has a stopper at the top of the mounting
clamps.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Sun, 26 Aug 2012 08:32:02 +0000 (UTC), "J.G."
wrote:

I picked up a 10' length of 1" (ID) EMT conduit today (they don't have
any shorter lengths). I'll cut it about ten inches long, and push it in
about four inches and drill a crosswise hole in the mounting to bolt the
pipe into the J arm.

Ugly, but functional. If you don't want to weld the two pipes
together, think about using epoxy or other glue. However, I would
weld as the thermal expansion and contraction will eventually crack
the glue joint.

I might not even bolt it into the J arm if it feels sturdy.

You can't directly bolt it to the J mount. If you run a bolt or two
through both pipes, you're likely to crush the pipes when tightened.
You'll need to cram a spacer inside the 1" EMT to allow the bolt to be
properly tightened. Two small bolts, such as what's at the bottom of
the J mount will also work, but you'll have a difficult time fishing
it into the middle of the assembly.

Then I'll lag bolt (screw) it into the edge of the wood roof beams, which
should work. The trick is that they're forty feet up in the air (due to
the hillside being very steep at the fault line). I 'was' going to use
the balcony but this rocketdish is huuuuge!

Please remember that you have but one life to give for your internet
access.

Up here in the Santa Cruz Mountains, we'd ditch everything for cable; but
it's just not in the cards yet (even though we're practically in Silicon
Valley - you'd think we'd be wired!).

I'm familiar with the situation. When the county renewed the contract
with Comcast last year, they were forced to add service to several
marginal areas. Basically, anyone that complained sufficiently loudly
to the county got service. Those that didn't, such as most of the
summit area, got nothing. This should be a clue as to how things are
done. Next chance is July 2014.
http://64.175.136.240/sirepub/cache/2/cfp1hr55o2tzyzburhwfgxvn/350276908262012083128615.PDF

While nobody would even think of HugesNet (Ku band), a few neighbors have
started their two-year contract with Viasat Exede (Ka band). It's FAST,
about 12 to 18 Mbps down. Much slower up. But you just can't change the
latencies of 700ms to almost a second!

I have customers and accomplices with the same situation in the Aptos
hills. Exede (Wild Blue) is slightly slower in the Aptos area because
it's at the border of the spot beam. It also wanders a bit, varying
somewhat with what I guess is signal strength. I've been doing remote
maintenance (using Teamviewer) to several Exede systems. There's a
bit of a delay, but since it's a very constant delay, it's easy to
accommodate. VoIP requires saying "over" at the end of each
"transmission", but is totally functional. For fun, I called Exede
customer service via VoIP. No problems. Here's another users
experience:
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r26978267-Exede-Exede-VOIP-via-OBi110-with-Google-Voice-is-outstandi
The big question is whether the customer can dump AT&T POTS in favor
of VoIP via Exede. The jury is still out but I'm lobbying for pulling
the plug.

Even the guys on the two-year Viasat contracts are adding WiFi dishes so
that they have a backup line-of-sight system. The WISPs out here are all
good guys. They let me, for example, keep my dish pointing to them as an
emergency backup, just in case my other WISP goes down (which is frequent
with the winds & power outages around here). We all have backup
generators and the WISPS have battery backup - but it's for naught when
the antenna blows down.

I've mounted a few radio antenna but this new Rocketdish antenna & Rocket
M2 radio is the BIGGEST HEAVIEST I've ever mounted - so it's more of a
mechanical problem than the planar and smaller parabolic antennas I've
had in the past.

The biggest problem now is the 40-foot drop should I fall off the ladder!

I did a 50 ladder climb to the 3rd floor to realign a HughesNet dish
on a tile roof. I'll never do that again. No problem once on the
roof, but the ladder was really bouncy. Later, I was told that the
correct way was to tie a 20ft ladder at midpoint to form a bipod to
stabilize the ladder.

If you're not sure of yourself, throw a heavy climbing rope (11mm)
over the top of the roof and down to the ground on the opposite side.
Tie it to a tree or something that will take your weight. Borrow a
sit harness (not just a belt) and tie yourself in. If you can't
handle the knots, get a rescue ascender/descender such as:
http://www.sherrilltree.com/Professional-Gear/Ascenders-Descenders
There should be plenty of tree climbers, wood butchers, or arborists
in the area. Bug me if you want names.

The hard part is not going to be mounting the dish. It's going to be
aiming and aligning the dish. Unless you're tied into the rafters, I
don't think the J-mount tied to the eaves is going to be strong
enough.

Don't forget to waterproof the exposed connectors. I wrap them with
teflon tape, and then cover the teflon tape with electrical tape. A
layer of clear coat acrylic paint (Krlyon) for UV protection and to
keep the tape from unraveling in the sun.

Can't you find a better or easier location? Something at the roof
peak would be easier to work with.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Sun, 26 Aug 2012 08:53:01 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Basically, anyone that complained sufficiently loudly to the county got
service. Those that didn't, such as most of the summit area, got
nothing. This should be a clue as to how things are done. Next chance
is July 2014.

I'm going to circulate THAT at the next local homeowners meeting to see
if we can get everyone to complain!

Maybe that's all we need to get cable in the mountains!

On Sun, 26 Aug 2012 08:53:01 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

The big question is whether the customer can dump AT&T POTS in favor of
VoIP via Exede. The jury is still out but I'm lobbying for pulling the
plug.

While the neighbors who have added Exede are happy with the speed, and
they knew about the latency problem beforehand, the one thing that will
kill them is the bandwidth caps.

WISPs out here typically do not limit bandwidth.

On Sun, 26 Aug 2012 08:36:24 +0000 (UTC), "J.G."
wrote:

On Sat, 25 Aug 2012 08:20:22 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

http://www.wpsantennas.com/fm2-antenna-pole-mount.aspx

I noticed this has two sets of mounting holes, so that you can reverse
the short arm of the J.

Why not just get the correct mount for the eaves? There's only so
much fabrication before it's cheaper, easier, and better to get the
right mounting hardware.
http://www.eavemounts.com
https://www.google.com/search?q=satellite+dish+eave+mount&tbm=isch
or see my original posting.

If you're not a believer, calculate the wind load on the dish at your
maximum expected wind gusts. Clamp the mount into a bench vice,
attach a load cell, and pull on the mount at the calculated tension.
On big installs, I actually do this.

http://dl.ubnt.com/datasheets/rocketdish/rd_ds_web.pdf
The Rocket dish is about 1 meter in diameter.

Handy spreadsheet:
http://www.ok1dfc.com/eme/10mprojekt/Wind%20load.xls
Use the 2nd tab for a solid dish.
60 mph = 97 km/hr
From the graph for a 1 meter dish, that's 750 newtons or 169 lbs.

Can your modified mount survive a 169 lb pull at the middle of the
dish? I don't think so. Note that the wind load varies with the
square of the wind speed, so getting max wind speed is fairly
important.







--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Sun, 26 Aug 2012 08:53:01 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Don't forget to waterproof the exposed connectors. I wrap them with
teflon tape, and then cover the teflon tape with electrical tape. A
layer of clear coat acrylic paint (Krlyon) for UV protection and to keep
the tape from unraveling in the sun.

That's a wonderful idea.

The Ubiquiti dish came with all stainless steel bolts. Do you still wrap
them if they're all stainless steel?

On Sun, 26 Aug 2012 08:53:01 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

If you're not sure of yourself, throw a heavy climbing rope (11mm) over
the top of the roof and down to the ground on the opposite side.
Tie it to a tree or something that will take your weight. Borrow a sit
harness (not just a belt) and tie yourself in. If you can't handle the
knots, get a rescue ascender/descender

Funny you should mention the rope.

I bought a 100' length from the local surplus store on Winchester, along
with a harness. When I bought it, I had thought the harness was a
climbing harness - but it was actually a 'safety' harness.

Also, I was wondering HOW to anchor the rope at the top - but I had not
thought about just throwing it over the house. That's a GREAT idea!

I'm not sure what the ascenders are for because I was planning on
climbing the ladder with the rope tied to me just in case I fell.

I guess you're intimating I don't need the ladder ... and, well, it 'is'
steeply sloped so that might not be a bad idea.

On Sun, 26 Aug 2012 09:12:35 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

http://dl.ubnt.com/datasheets/rocketdish/rd_ds_web.pdf
The Rocket dish is about 1 meter in diameter.

Handy spreadsheet:
http://www.ok1dfc.com/eme/10mprojekt/Wind%20load.xls
Use the 2nd tab for a solid dish.
60 mph = 97 km/hr
From the graph for a 1 meter dish, that's 750 newtons or 169 lbs.

About 1 millisecond after I hit send, I found that I had goofed. I
hate it when that happens. The wind load should be:

From the graph for a 1 meter dish, that's 187 newtons or 42 lbs.




--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Sun, 26 Aug 2012 08:21:45 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Are you sure they're stainless and not electroplated steel? Use a
magnet. I've been fooled a few times. If it sticks, it's electroplated
steel. If it doesn't, it's probably stainless. (Note:
There are magnetic stainless compositions, but they're not commonly used
for hardware).

Interesting.

I put a neodymium button magnet on the shiny bolts and it was slightly
sticky. Strangely enough, the magnet would stick slightly to some bolts,
enough to stay on, but in others it would just slide off.

It stuck like glue to the painted steel but didn't have any attraction at
all for the stainless steel hose clamp that came with the assembly ... so
there's something very different about the bolts and nuts.

On Sun, 26 Aug 2012 08:21:45 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

BTW, WHAT is the purpose of the bottom brace anyway?

Some of the larger J mounts have additional support arms like this:
http://sadoun.com/Sat/Products/Winegard/superDmount-6.jpg
Looks like you have the mount, but not the arms.

Oh. That makes sense.

There's NOTHING about that in the instructions!
They just say to mount that bracket below the antenna. That's it.

On Sun, 26 Aug 2012 16:18:58 +0000 (UTC), "J.G."
wrote:

On Sun, 26 Aug 2012 08:53:01 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Don't forget to waterproof the exposed connectors. I wrap them with
teflon tape, and then cover the teflon tape with electrical tape. A
layer of clear coat acrylic paint (Krlyon) for UV protection and to keep
the tape from unraveling in the sun.

That's a wonderful idea.

Thanks. It's original and has worked great for the last 30 odd years.
The teflon tape cold flows into all the cracks and joints. It
prevents capillary action. Best of all, when removed, the original
connectors are as shiny as when they were new. I use 1" wide plumbers
tape. BC Hardware used to stock it, but they haven't had it for
years. Common 1/2" is available anywhere and will suffice.

Hmmm... I just found some on eBay. Time to restock:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/140808957532

The Ubiquiti dish came with all stainless steel bolts. Do you still wrap
them if they're all stainless steel?

No. Not the bolts. Stainless doesn't need any protection. Don't
even bother greasing the nuts as a slipper nut tends to loosen if the
dish vibrates in the wind.

The teflon plus electrical tape wrap is for electrical and RF
connectors. Most of those are internally protected inside the Rocket
housing. The four rubber boots over the four RF connectors is
probably adequate. However, I like to wrap the connector with teflon
tape, and then slide on the boot. The boot will deteriorate after
about 5 years in the sun. After it crumbles and falls apart, just
rewrap the teflon, layer the electrical tape, and spray on the acrylic
(mask the radio) and you're good for another 10 years or so.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Sun, 26 Aug 2012 16:22:05 +0000 (UTC), "J.G."
wrote:

On Sun, 26 Aug 2012 08:53:01 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

If you're not sure of yourself, throw a heavy climbing rope (11mm) over
the top of the roof and down to the ground on the opposite side.
Tie it to a tree or something that will take your weight. Borrow a sit
harness (not just a belt) and tie yourself in. If you can't handle the
knots, get a rescue ascender/descender

Funny you should mention the rope.

I bought a 100' length from the local surplus store on Winchester, along
with a harness. When I bought it, I had thought the harness was a
climbing harness - but it was actually a 'safety' harness.

Doing the math. 40ft up to the eaves. My guess is about 40ft over
the roof plus 20ft to the ground and around a tree. Total is 100ft.
This is going to be close.

Also, I was wondering HOW to anchor the rope at the top - but I had not
thought about just throwing it over the house. That's a GREAT idea!

Been there, done it that way. Worked just fine. However, you're
going to destroy the tiles on the roof peak if you fall. That's fine
because they're easy to replace. Your life is worth more than the
tiles.

I'm not sure what the ascenders are for because I was planning on
climbing the ladder with the rope tied to me just in case I fell.

Easy. Pretend the cheap Made in China ladder just buckled in the
middle and you're hanging a few feet below the roof eave. You're tied
in with your hardness so you're not going to fall any further. How
are you going to get down? You can't have an assistant untie the
other end of the rope because they're unlikely to lower you safely
without belaying. If you have climbing experience and know how to
handle the ropes and hardware, lowering yourself is no problem. For
everyone else, a stop descender will be much easier.

I guess you're intimating I don't need the ladder ... and, well, it 'is'
steeply sloped so that might not be a bad idea.

You need the ladder, which should also be tied to a rope thrown over
the roof peak and tied to a tree with a separate line. It doesn't
need to be 11mm. Just enough to keep the ladder from sliding
sideways. The safety rope is just in case something goes wrong.

I can tell you've never done this before. I suggest you find someone
with experience to do the install. (Not me. I'm getting too old for
this stuff). Also, if you move the project to the roof peak, you can
climb up the other side of the house, which presumably is closer to
the ground.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

"J.G." wrote:

While the neighbors who have added Exede are happy with the speed, and
they knew about the latency problem beforehand, the one thing that will
kill them is the bandwidth caps.

Don't know what your Verzon coverage is like, but they've been rolling out LTE
across the country. Once that is in place, Fusion is a viable alternative to
satellite. Speed's about the same and you still have to deal with caps, but
pricing is less and the latency is much lower.

Ku band is packed full. All the new stuff is on Ka band. At
30-40GHz, dish alignment and stability is rather critical.



For these remote data sites, satellite internet is probably good enough.
They probably only upload when enough shaking occurs. The ones I found
turn out to get moved, which seems odd to me unless they set them up and
perhaps set off a charge to see it ping.

There is a band just above Ku I thought. 18GGZ or so?

Can't you find a better or easier location? Something at the roof
peak would be easier to work with.


If you have real estate, I would try to mount the sat dish on a pole in
the ground. Yeah I know, you mountain folk have trees to contend with.

BTW, there are people in Castro Valley that use satellite internet. The
east bay has it's share of hillbillies, but most of the trees are long
gone due to being used in construction, clear cutting for ranching, etc.

Over at Mono Lake, they put up a gazebo at an historical mill site. I've
seen the historical marker many times, but the gazebo was new (or
newish). Anyway, it turns out the wood for Bodie came from around Mono
Lake, which explains a lot of the clear cutting.

When you head further east into either the East Sierras or Nevada, wood
was a real premium. Ah, but there was no shortage of stone. ;-)

On Sun, 26 Aug 2012 13:40:42 -0600, Robert Neville wrote:

"J.G." wrote:

While the neighbors who have added Exede are happy with the speed, and
they knew about the latency problem beforehand, the one thing that will
kill them is the bandwidth caps.

Don't know what your Verzon coverage is like, but they've been rolling out LTE
across the country. Once that is in place, Fusion is a viable alternative to
satellite. Speed's about the same and you still have to deal with caps, but
pricing is less and the latency is much lower.

I noticed that 3G areas are quickly being converted to 4G. It's still
unstable in many areas (reverting to 3G, or nothing) but it's certainly a move
in the right direction. Do they make a 4G access point for an entire house,
either 4G to WiFi or wired? Something that could have an antenna optimally
placed? It gets expensive if every device needs its own service and often
data service inside a house is spotty.

On Sun, 26 Aug 2012 13:32:21 -0700, miso wrote:

For these remote data sites, satellite internet is probably good enough.
They probably only upload when enough shaking occurs. The ones I found
turn out to get moved, which seems odd to me unless they set them up and
perhaps set off a charge to see it ping.

They setup a ground station with satellite first. If it looks like
it's usable, they order a lease line, or install a 400MHz uplink.

Nice 5.3 shaker a few minutes ago:
http://earthquake.usgs.gov/monitoring/helicorders/nca/20120826/
http://earthquake.usgs.gov/monitoring/helicorders/nca/102/20120826/

There is a band just above Ku I thought. 18GGZ or so?

Yep. There's K band above Ku band.
http://transition.fcc.gov/oet/spectrum/table/fcctable.pdf
Roughly starting on Pg 50. Nothing suitable for satellite internet
until you get to Ka band.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 8/26/2012 1:19 AM, J.G. wrote:
On Sat, 25 Aug 2012 00:12:38 -0700, miso wrote:

Satellite internet is terrible. You can't get around the latency problem
unless you can cut a deal with Einstein.

Satellite sucks with 700ms latencies & severe bandwidth limits; but it
does provide the Santa Cruz mountains with 10 Mbps to 20 Mbps if you go
with Viasat Exede Ka band (forget HughesNet, which is Ku band). Plus you
can't buy and set up your own equipment.

This antenna and radio I'm mounting is for 2.4 Ghz WiFi, which has to
handle a lot more noise - but otherwise it works fine at the 10Mbps to
20Mbps range up here in the Santa Cruz Mountains.

The alternative is 5Ghz equipment, depending on the WISP (e.g., Etheric)
but the drawback is you can't own and set up your own equipment.

Most of us up here in the mountains set up our own equipment. We're not
as smart as you guys but luckily the WISPs are all pretty good about it
(Surfnet, Hilltop, Ridgewireless, etc.). So we learn just enough to get
it working & for the kids not to kill us when it goes down.


If you recall the old war driving days, i.e. when wifi was actually work
to find, there were tools to log "hits" geographically. I had fired the
software up about a year ago for yucks. Amazing the number of WISPs out
there. I used a dual band dongle. I found maybe one 5.8GHz WAP.

" wrote:

Do they make a 4G access point for an entire house,
either 4G to WiFi or wired? Something that could have an antenna optimally
placed?

Yes - look he http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/h...ion/hf/main.do

Scroll down to the bottom of the page to see the concept drawing.