Any ideas for installing a new antenna mast into an old antenna hole?

OLD:
I have an old 3.5 inch ID steel tube sunk in 30 inches of concrete. I'm
guessing this was an old satellite dish cut off flush with the surface
(unfortunately). No threads but the steel is 1/4 thick (or so) and in
good shape and it goes down to 30 inches in the concrete.

NEW:
I simply need an antenna mast of about 12 feet high for a new WISP 802.11
antenna & radio setup. Winds can be high at times. Soil is rocky clay. I
prefer NOT to have guy wires as the kids play in that area.

IDEA:
The best idea is to find a way to shove a 3.5 inch OD pipe 30 inches into
the existing pipe and then thread successively smaller pipe down to 2
inches for the final mast. But I can't find a source for 3.5 inch OD pipe
that has threads on at least one end so that I can put a reducer on that
end.

COMPROMISE:
I can easily find 2 inch and 1 1/2 inch threaded galvanized water pipe
with reducer fittings and caps - but I can't find 3.5 inch water pipe and
associated fittings for the bottom portion of the mast.

TWO QUESTIONS:
Q1: If I stick with the original idea, where would I get a 3.5 inch OD
pipe that has threads that can hold a reducer to more available widths?

Q2: If I go with what I have right now, how would YOU shore up the pipe
but still allow easy removal for maintenance?

DETAILS:
Currently it's working but physically wobbling. I remove the entire mast
to service the antenna.

The mast is comprised of a five foot length of 2 inch ID threaded
galvanized water pipe sitting 30 inches deep inside the existing 3.5 inch
ID iron pipe cut flush at the concrete. This five foot length of water
pipe sticks roughly 2 1/2 feet out of the ground where I then threaded on
a reducer which couples easily to the 10 foot length of 1 1/2 inch ID
threaded water pipe forming the bulk of the mast, and which is capped at
the top (to prevent water from filling the pipe).

The 14 dBi planar 2.4 Ghz antenna at top is roughly pointed at the WISP
access point; the Bullet M2 radio tells me it has an ACK/Distance of
55/2.6 miles respectively (I'm not sure if that's important); this radio
sees a signal strength of -56 dBm (pretty good); with a transmit CCQ of
83% (just ok).

It's working - but it's not a permanent solution.

I am stuck at HOW to fix the antenna in the ground so that it won't
wobble & spin (short of digging a new hole & concreting it in) yet being
able to service the antenna (I have ladders but not a 12 foot high step
ladder - plus the ground is sloping so it's unsafe to ladder it).

Do you have ideas how to affix the antenna mast into the old 3.5 inch ID
hole while still being able to remove the entire mast for antenna service?

NOTE: In the future I'd like to add a TV antenna but that's not the
primary goal.

All ideas welcome.

On Dec 18, 8:30*am, Frank Wilson
wrote:
Any ideas for installing a new antenna mast into an old antenna hole?

OLD:
I have an old 3.5 inch ID steel tube sunk in 30 inches of concrete. I'm
guessing this was an old satellite dish cut off flush with the surface
(unfortunately). No threads but the steel is 1/4 thick (or so) and in
good shape and it goes down to 30 inches in the concrete.

NEW:
I simply need an antenna mast of about 12 feet high for a new WISP 802.11
antenna & radio setup. Winds can be high at times. Soil is rocky clay. I
prefer NOT to have guy wires as the kids play in that area.

IDEA:
The best idea is to find a way to shove a 3.5 inch OD pipe 30 inches into
the existing pipe and then thread successively smaller pipe down to 2
inches for the final mast. But I can't find a source for 3.5 inch OD pipe
that has threads on at least one end so that I can put a reducer on that
end.

COMPROMISE:
I can easily find 2 inch and 1 1/2 inch threaded galvanized water pipe
with reducer fittings and caps - but I can't find 3.5 inch water pipe and
associated fittings for the bottom portion of the mast.

TWO QUESTIONS:
Q1: If I stick with the original idea, where would I get a 3.5 inch OD
pipe that has threads that can hold a reducer to more available widths?

Q2: If I go with what I have right now, how would YOU shore up the pipe
but still allow easy removal for maintenance?

DETAILS:
Currently it's working but physically wobbling. I remove the entire mast
to service the antenna.

The mast is comprised of a five foot length of 2 inch ID threaded
galvanized water pipe sitting 30 inches deep inside the existing 3.5 inch
ID iron pipe cut flush at the concrete. This five foot length of water
pipe sticks roughly 2 1/2 feet out of the ground where I then threaded on
a reducer which couples easily to the 10 foot length of 1 1/2 inch ID
threaded water pipe forming the bulk of the mast, and which is capped at
the top (to prevent water from filling the pipe).

The 14 dBi planar 2.4 Ghz antenna at top is roughly pointed at the WISP
access point; the Bullet M2 radio tells me it has an ACK/Distance of
55/2.6 miles respectively (I'm not sure if that's important); this radio
sees a signal strength of -56 dBm (pretty good); with a transmit CCQ of
83% (just ok).

It's working - but it's not a permanent solution.

I am stuck at HOW to fix the antenna in the ground so that it won't
wobble & spin (short of digging a new hole & concreting it in) yet being
able to service the antenna (I have ladders but not a 12 foot high step
ladder - plus the ground is sloping so it's unsafe to ladder it).

Do you have ideas how to affix the antenna mast into the old 3.5 inch ID
hole while still being able to remove the entire mast for antenna service?

NOTE: In the future I'd like to add a TV antenna but that's not the
primary goal.

All ideas welcome.

Obtain a bit of pipe (longer than depth of your hole) that will slide
over your new antenna mast, (steel or substantial plastic).
Cover end with tape, place in existing hole and cement in the annular
space with a wet mix (and plasticiser if available), well pounded in.

Another thought. Before cementing in, insert your new pole and ensure
it is vertical and centralised as far as possible..

"Frank Wilson" wrote in message
...
Any ideas for installing a new antenna mast into an old antenna hole?

OLD:
I have an old 3.5 inch ID steel tube sunk in 30 inches of concrete. I'm
guessing this was an old satellite dish cut off flush with the surface
(unfortunately). No threads but the steel is 1/4 thick (or so) and in
good shape and it goes down to 30 inches in the concrete.

NEW:
I simply need an antenna mast of about 12 feet high for a new WISP 802.11
antenna & radio setup. Winds can be high at times. Soil is rocky clay. I
prefer NOT to have guy wires as the kids play in that area.

IDEA:
The best idea is to find a way to shove a 3.5 inch OD pipe 30 inches into
the existing pipe and then thread successively smaller pipe down to 2
inches for the final mast. But I can't find a source for 3.5 inch OD pipe
that has threads on at least one end so that I can put a reducer on that
end.

stuff snipped

Why not fill the existing hole with cement and while it's wet center a
smaller pipe that has the correct (smaller) diameter fitting at the top for
maintenance? No large thread pipe needed, just some cement. Better
structurally speaking than a series of reducers.

--
Bobby G.

"Frank Wilson" wrote in message
...
Any ideas for installing a new antenna mast into an old antenna hole?

OLD:
I have an old 3.5 inch ID steel tube sunk in 30 inches of concrete. I'm
guessing this was an old satellite dish cut off flush with the surface
(unfortunately). No threads but the steel is 1/4 thick (or so) and in
good shape and it goes down to 30 inches in the concrete.

NEW:
I simply need an antenna mast of about 12 feet high for a new WISP 802.11
antenna & radio setup. Winds can be high at times. Soil is rocky clay. I
prefer NOT to have guy wires as the kids play in that area.

IDEA:
The best idea is to find a way to shove a 3.5 inch OD pipe 30 inches into
the existing pipe and then thread successively smaller pipe down to 2
inches for the final mast. But I can't find a source for 3.5 inch OD pipe
that has threads on at least one end so that I can put a reducer on that
end.

COMPROMISE:
I can easily find 2 inch and 1 1/2 inch threaded galvanized water pipe
with reducer fittings and caps - but I can't find 3.5 inch water pipe and
associated fittings for the bottom portion of the mast.

TWO QUESTIONS:
Q1: If I stick with the original idea, where would I get a 3.5 inch OD
pipe that has threads that can hold a reducer to more available widths?

Q2: If I go with what I have right now, how would YOU shore up the pipe
but still allow easy removal for maintenance?

DETAILS:
Currently it's working but physically wobbling. I remove the entire mast
to service the antenna.

The mast is comprised of a five foot length of 2 inch ID threaded
galvanized water pipe sitting 30 inches deep inside the existing 3.5 inch
ID iron pipe cut flush at the concrete. This five foot length of water
pipe sticks roughly 2 1/2 feet out of the ground where I then threaded on
a reducer which couples easily to the 10 foot length of 1 1/2 inch ID
threaded water pipe forming the bulk of the mast, and which is capped at
the top (to prevent water from filling the pipe).

The 14 dBi planar 2.4 Ghz antenna at top is roughly pointed at the WISP
access point; the Bullet M2 radio tells me it has an ACK/Distance of
55/2.6 miles respectively (I'm not sure if that's important); this radio
sees a signal strength of -56 dBm (pretty good); with a transmit CCQ of
83% (just ok).

It's working - but it's not a permanent solution.

I am stuck at HOW to fix the antenna in the ground so that it won't
wobble & spin (short of digging a new hole & concreting it in) yet being
able to service the antenna (I have ladders but not a 12 foot high step
ladder - plus the ground is sloping so it's unsafe to ladder it).

Do you have ideas how to affix the antenna mast into the old 3.5 inch ID
hole while still being able to remove the entire mast for antenna service?

NOTE: In the future I'd like to add a TV antenna but that's not the
primary goal.

All ideas welcome.

Put a clamp on the pipe about 5' off the ground
Attach to outriders at an angle that are set in the ground
These will give you rotational and vertical stability
By loosening the clamp, you can rotate the pipe to re-orient it as needed.

As to climbing up the pipe to service it, use climbing sticks like the ones
deer hunters use to go up to their stands
http://shop.sportsmansguide.com/net/...20stick&eMode=
Some climbing sticks kits can even be joined to multiply the height reached.

Frank Wilson wrote:
Any ideas for installing a new antenna mast into an old antenna hole?

OLD:
I have an old 3.5 inch ID steel tube sunk in 30 inches of concrete.
I'm guessing this was an old satellite dish cut off flush with the
surface (unfortunately). No threads but the steel is 1/4 thick (or
so) and in good shape and it goes down to 30 inches in the concrete.

NEW:
I simply need an antenna mast of about 12 feet high for a new WISP
802.11 antenna & radio setup. Winds can be high at times. Soil is
rocky clay. I prefer NOT to have guy wires as the kids play in that
area.

IDEA:
The best idea is to find a way to shove a 3.5 inch OD pipe 30 inches
into the existing pipe and then thread successively smaller pipe down
to 2 inches for the final mast. But I can't find a source for 3.5
inch OD pipe that has threads on at least one end so that I can put a
reducer on that end.


Assuming you've found the 3.5" OD pipe, all you need is a way to attach your
2" mast. Threading with a reducer is one way, so the next step is find some
way to put threads on your 3.5" OD pipe.

1. Find an oil or water well supplier. They'll probably have some way to
thread the sucker.

2. Buy your own 3.5" pipe threading die (~$175.00).

On 12/18/2011 3:30 AM, Frank Wilson wrote:
Any ideas for installing a new antenna mast into an old antenna hole?

OLD:
I have an old 3.5 inch ID steel tube sunk in 30 inches of concrete. I'm
guessing this was an old satellite dish cut off flush with the surface
(unfortunately). No threads but the steel is 1/4 thick (or so) and in
good shape and it goes down to 30 inches in the concrete.

NEW:
I simply need an antenna mast of about 12 feet high for a new WISP 802.11
antenna& radio setup. Winds can be high at times. Soil is rocky clay. I
prefer NOT to have guy wires as the kids play in that area.

IDEA:
The best idea is to find a way to shove a 3.5 inch OD pipe 30 inches into
the existing pipe and then thread successively smaller pipe down to 2
inches for the final mast. But I can't find a source for 3.5 inch OD pipe
that has threads on at least one end so that I can put a reducer on that
end.

COMPROMISE:
I can easily find 2 inch and 1 1/2 inch threaded galvanized water pipe
with reducer fittings and caps - but I can't find 3.5 inch water pipe and
associated fittings for the bottom portion of the mast.

TWO QUESTIONS:
Q1: If I stick with the original idea, where would I get a 3.5 inch OD
pipe that has threads that can hold a reducer to more available widths?

Q2: If I go with what I have right now, how would YOU shore up the pipe
but still allow easy removal for maintenance?

DETAILS:
Currently it's working but physically wobbling. I remove the entire mast
to service the antenna.

The mast is comprised of a five foot length of 2 inch ID threaded
galvanized water pipe sitting 30 inches deep inside the existing 3.5 inch
ID iron pipe cut flush at the concrete. This five foot length of water
pipe sticks roughly 2 1/2 feet out of the ground where I then threaded on
a reducer which couples easily to the 10 foot length of 1 1/2 inch ID
threaded water pipe forming the bulk of the mast, and which is capped at
the top (to prevent water from filling the pipe).

The 14 dBi planar 2.4 Ghz antenna at top is roughly pointed at the WISP
access point; the Bullet M2 radio tells me it has an ACK/Distance of
55/2.6 miles respectively (I'm not sure if that's important); this radio
sees a signal strength of -56 dBm (pretty good); with a transmit CCQ of
83% (just ok).

It's working - but it's not a permanent solution.

I am stuck at HOW to fix the antenna in the ground so that it won't
wobble& spin (short of digging a new hole& concreting it in) yet being
able to service the antenna (I have ladders but not a 12 foot high step
ladder - plus the ground is sloping so it's unsafe to ladder it).

Do you have ideas how to affix the antenna mast into the old 3.5 inch ID
hole while still being able to remove the entire mast for antenna service?

NOTE: In the future I'd like to add a TV antenna but that's not the
primary goal.

All ideas welcome.


Fix to the 2" OD final mast a pair of 2" ID/3.5" OD centering
spacers/"donuts" near bottom and top of the 30" submerged portion of the
final mast.

Insert final mast with spacers into the old 3.5" ID shaft. Easy in,
easy out for maintenance.

On Sun, 18 Dec 2011 08:30:46 +0000 (UTC), Frank Wilson wrote:

Any ideas for installing a new antenna mast into an old antenna hole?

OLD:
I have an old 3.5 inch ID steel tube sunk in 30 inches of concrete. I'm
guessing this was an old satellite dish cut off flush with the surface
(unfortunately). No threads but the steel is 1/4 thick (or so) and in
good shape and it goes down to 30 inches in the concrete.

NEW:
I simply need an antenna mast of about 12 feet high for a new WISP 802.11
antenna & radio setup. Winds can be high at times. Soil is rocky clay. I
prefer NOT to have guy wires as the kids play in that area.

IDEA:
The best idea is to find a way to shove a 3.5 inch OD pipe 30 inches into
the existing pipe and then thread successively smaller pipe down to 2
inches for the final mast. But I can't find a source for 3.5 inch OD pipe
that has threads on at least one end so that I can put a reducer on that
end.

COMPROMISE:
I can easily find 2 inch and 1 1/2 inch threaded galvanized water pipe
with reducer fittings and caps - but I can't find 3.5 inch water pipe and
associated fittings for the bottom portion of the mast.

TWO QUESTIONS:
Q1: If I stick with the original idea, where would I get a 3.5 inch OD
pipe that has threads that can hold a reducer to more available widths?

Q2: If I go with what I have right now, how would YOU shore up the pipe
but still allow easy removal for maintenance?

DETAILS:
Currently it's working but physically wobbling. I remove the entire mast
to service the antenna.

The mast is comprised of a five foot length of 2 inch ID threaded
galvanized water pipe sitting 30 inches deep inside the existing 3.5 inch
ID iron pipe cut flush at the concrete. This five foot length of water
pipe sticks roughly 2 1/2 feet out of the ground where I then threaded on
a reducer which couples easily to the 10 foot length of 1 1/2 inch ID
threaded water pipe forming the bulk of the mast, and which is capped at
the top (to prevent water from filling the pipe).

The 14 dBi planar 2.4 Ghz antenna at top is roughly pointed at the WISP
access point; the Bullet M2 radio tells me it has an ACK/Distance of
55/2.6 miles respectively (I'm not sure if that's important); this radio
sees a signal strength of -56 dBm (pretty good); with a transmit CCQ of
83% (just ok).

It's working - but it's not a permanent solution.

I am stuck at HOW to fix the antenna in the ground so that it won't
wobble & spin (short of digging a new hole & concreting it in) yet being
able to service the antenna (I have ladders but not a 12 foot high step
ladder - plus the ground is sloping so it's unsafe to ladder it).

Do you have ideas how to affix the antenna mast into the old 3.5 inch ID
hole while still being able to remove the entire mast for antenna service?

NOTE: In the future I'd like to add a TV antenna but that's not the
primary goal.

All ideas welcome.

Try looking in the Forums at this site.
http://www.satelliteguys.us/index.php
Look under Search for Antenna Mounting.

On Dec 18, 12:30*am, Frank Wilson
wrote:
Any ideas for installing a new antenna mast into an old antenna hole?

OLD:
I have an old 3.5 inch ID steel tube sunk in 30 inches of concrete. I'm
guessing this was an old satellite dish cut off flush with the surface
(unfortunately). No threads but the steel is 1/4 thick (or so) and in
good shape and it goes down to 30 inches in the concrete.

NEW:
I simply need an antenna mast of about 12 feet high for a new WISP 802.11
antenna & radio setup. Winds can be high at times. Soil is rocky clay. I
prefer NOT to have guy wires as the kids play in that area.

IDEA:
The best idea is to find a way to shove a 3.5 inch OD pipe 30 inches into
the existing pipe and then thread successively smaller pipe down to 2
inches for the final mast. But I can't find a source for 3.5 inch OD pipe
that has threads on at least one end so that I can put a reducer on that
end.

COMPROMISE:
I can easily find 2 inch and 1 1/2 inch threaded galvanized water pipe
with reducer fittings and caps - but I can't find 3.5 inch water pipe and
associated fittings for the bottom portion of the mast.

TWO QUESTIONS:
Q1: If I stick with the original idea, where would I get a 3.5 inch OD
pipe that has threads that can hold a reducer to more available widths?

Q2: If I go with what I have right now, how would YOU shore up the pipe
but still allow easy removal for maintenance?

DETAILS:
Currently it's working but physically wobbling. I remove the entire mast
to service the antenna.

The mast is comprised of a five foot length of 2 inch ID threaded
galvanized water pipe sitting 30 inches deep inside the existing 3.5 inch
ID iron pipe cut flush at the concrete. This five foot length of water
pipe sticks roughly 2 1/2 feet out of the ground where I then threaded on
a reducer which couples easily to the 10 foot length of 1 1/2 inch ID
threaded water pipe forming the bulk of the mast, and which is capped at
the top (to prevent water from filling the pipe).

The 14 dBi planar 2.4 Ghz antenna at top is roughly pointed at the WISP
access point; the Bullet M2 radio tells me it has an ACK/Distance of
55/2.6 miles respectively (I'm not sure if that's important); this radio
sees a signal strength of -56 dBm (pretty good); with a transmit CCQ of
83% (just ok).

It's working - but it's not a permanent solution.

I am stuck at HOW to fix the antenna in the ground so that it won't
wobble & spin (short of digging a new hole & concreting it in) yet being
able to service the antenna (I have ladders but not a 12 foot high step
ladder - plus the ground is sloping so it's unsafe to ladder it).

Do you have ideas how to affix the antenna mast into the old 3.5 inch ID
hole while still being able to remove the entire mast for antenna service?

NOTE: In the future I'd like to add a TV antenna but that's not the
primary goal.

All ideas welcome.



If the dimensions you give are accurate....

You could use 3" pipe (has a 3.5" OD) obtained from McMaster Carr.


You could could a full length insert (24" to 36") and then use a
coupling w/ a threaded reducing bushing.

OR

Buy a short piece of 3" SCH 80 pipe to make adapter donuts as
suggested by another poster.

check out

http://www.alcobrametals.com/page.ph...pipe-schedules
http://alcobrametals.com/page.php?page=pipeandtube

the dimensions given have tolerance on them and the various pipe sizes
& thicknesses might need some "machining" to get a proper fix.

You could wet anchor a 2" pipe (2-3/8" OD) into the existing hole
using a high strength setting compound.

Threaded pipe joints in bending situations make me nervous.

cheers
Bob

If the dimensions you give are accurate....

You could use 3" pipe (has a 3.5" OD) obtained from McMaster Carr.


You could could a full length insert (24" to 36") and then use a
coupling w/ a threaded reducing bushing.

OR

Buy a short piece of 3" SCH 80 pipe to make adapter donuts as
suggested by another poster.

check out

http://www.alcobrametals.com/page.ph...pipe-schedules
http://alcobrametals.com/page.php?page=pipeandtube

the dimensions given have tolerance on them and the various pipe sizes
& thicknesses might need some "machining" to get a proper fix.

You could wet anchor a 2" pipe (2-3/8" OD) into the existing hole
using a high strength setting compound.

Threaded pipe joints in bending situations make me nervous.

cheers
Bob



Note whatever you use as "cement", it has to set in the winter. Well
unless the OP is from down under.

I run into installations in the boonies where it looks like stakes were
epoxied into crevices of rock. Any idea what kind of compounds are used
to do this? This is sort of the case where you don't know how to ask the
right question in google. In fact one spot had threaded pipe in the
rock, and I suspect they found a hole and just filled it to set the pipe
rather than dig into rock.

On Sun, 18 Dec 2011 08:53:02 -0600, Attila.Iskander wrote:
Put a clamp on the pipe about 5' off the ground Attach to outriders at
an angle that are set in the ground These will give you rotational and
vertical stability By loosening the clamp, you can rotate the pipe to
re-orient it as needed.

I'm not sure I understand this suggestion.

The existing 3.5" ID pipe is cut flush with the concrete so I can't put
any clamp on that.

I guess you're suggesting I put a clamp on the five-foot length of 2" ID
galvanized water pipe (which is about 2 1/2" OD). But I don't understand
the 'outriders' part.

use climbing sticks like the ones deer hunters use

Interesting idea. I found a video of them being used. They are supposed
to go around trees though, so I am not sure if they'll work on 1 1/2" ID
water pipe (about 2" OD).

I think it may be time to invest in a taller 12' stepladder (which I
could use for trimming trees around the antenna also).

On Sun, 18 Dec 2011 10:19:43 -0600, HeyBub wrote:
Assuming you've found the 3.5" OD pipe, all you need is a way to attach
your 2" mast.

I'm told (by local plumbers) that I might be able to find inexpensive
(about $50) yellow steel "ballard" (or "bollard") pipes at 3.5" OD:

Ballards/bollards are, I am told, the name for those removable posts that
utilities put all around transformers and other vulnerable equipment in
parking lots so that trucks/cars don't run them over.

I'm not sure if they're called 'ballards' or 'bollards'.

This site calls them ballards:

This one calls them bollards:
http://www.absorbentsonline.com/indu...steel-bollard-
posts.htm


Threading with a reducer is one way, so the next step is
find some way to put threads on your 3.5" OD pipe.

1. Find an oil or water well supplier. They'll probably have some way to
thread the sucker.

2. Buy your own 3.5" pipe threading die (~$175.00).

On Sun, 18 Dec 2011 10:19:43 -0600, HeyBub wrote:
Assuming you've found the 3.5" OD pipe, all you need is a way to attach
your 2" mast. Threading with a reducer is one way, so the next step is
find some way to put threads on your 3.5" OD pipe.

Sorry about that last post - I hit the send button too soon!
I'll clarify.

Local plumbers told me to look for 'ballards' or 'bollards', which are
apparently inexpensive pipe posts ($50) that are about the right diameter
which are designed to be used as "dissuasive perimeter control" barrier
posts around areas so that cars don't drive through them.

This site calls them "Pipe Ballards" but they only have 3" diameters:
http://www.bryfab.com/bb.html

This site calls them "Steel Bollard Posts" & but they only have 4", 5", &
6" diameters:
http://www.absorbentsonline.com/indu...steel-bollard-
posts.htm

This is a bollard FAQ:
http://www.bigbollards.com/faq.htm

I'm still googling for a 3.5" OD bollard/ballard post ...

harry wrote:
On Dec 18, 8:30 am, Frank Wilson
wrote:
Any ideas for installing a new antenna mast into an old antenna hole?

OLD:
I have an old 3.5 inch ID steel tube sunk in 30 inches of concrete. I'm
guessing this was an old satellite dish cut off flush with the surface
(unfortunately). No threads but the steel is 1/4 thick (or so) and in
good shape and it goes down to 30 inches in the concrete.

NEW:
I simply need an antenna mast of about 12 feet high for a new WISP 802.11
antenna & radio setup. Winds can be high at times. Soil is rocky clay. I
prefer NOT to have guy wires as the kids play in that area.

IDEA:
The best idea is to find a way to shove a 3.5 inch OD pipe 30 inches into
the existing pipe and then thread successively smaller pipe down to 2
inches for the final mast. But I can't find a source for 3.5 inch OD pipe
that has threads on at least one end so that I can put a reducer on that
end.

COMPROMISE:
I can easily find 2 inch and 1 1/2 inch threaded galvanized water pipe
with reducer fittings and caps - but I can't find 3.5 inch water pipe and
associated fittings for the bottom portion of the mast.

TWO QUESTIONS:
Q1: If I stick with the original idea, where would I get a 3.5 inch OD
pipe that has threads that can hold a reducer to more available widths?

Q2: If I go with what I have right now, how would YOU shore up the pipe
but still allow easy removal for maintenance?

DETAILS:
Currently it's working but physically wobbling. I remove the entire mast
to service the antenna.

The mast is comprised of a five foot length of 2 inch ID threaded
galvanized water pipe sitting 30 inches deep inside the existing 3.5 inch
ID iron pipe cut flush at the concrete. This five foot length of water
pipe sticks roughly 2 1/2 feet out of the ground where I then threaded on
a reducer which couples easily to the 10 foot length of 1 1/2 inch ID
threaded water pipe forming the bulk of the mast, and which is capped at
the top (to prevent water from filling the pipe).

The 14 dBi planar 2.4 Ghz antenna at top is roughly pointed at the WISP
access point; the Bullet M2 radio tells me it has an ACK/Distance of
55/2.6 miles respectively (I'm not sure if that's important); this radio
sees a signal strength of -56 dBm (pretty good); with a transmit CCQ of
83% (just ok).

It's working - but it's not a permanent solution.

I am stuck at HOW to fix the antenna in the ground so that it won't
wobble & spin (short of digging a new hole & concreting it in) yet being
able to service the antenna (I have ladders but not a 12 foot high step
ladder - plus the ground is sloping so it's unsafe to ladder it).

Do you have ideas how to affix the antenna mast into the old 3.5 inch ID
hole while still being able to remove the entire mast for antenna service?

NOTE: In the future I'd like to add a TV antenna but that's not the
primary goal.

All ideas welcome.

Obtain a bit of pipe (longer than depth of your hole) that will slide
over your new antenna mast, (steel or substantial plastic).
Cover end with tape, place in existing hole and cement in the annular
space with a wet mix (and plasticiser if available), well pounded in.

What he said, except make sure to put some gravel in the hole and hold
the pipe up into the gravel so the bottom is open. IF it fills up with
water and freezes, that's not good. If your ground is warm enough in
winter,
you may be able to get by with a hole at ground level.

On Sun, 18 Dec 2011 08:30:46 +0000 (UTC), Frank Wilson
wrote:

I have an old 3.5 inch ID steel tube sunk in 30 inches of concrete. I'm
guessing this was an old satellite dish cut off flush with the surface
(unfortunately). No threads but the steel is 1/4 thick (or so) and in
good shape and it goes down to 30 inches in the concrete.

That would be about the size used for a big C-band 8ft dish. DBS
dishes use smaller pipes, usually 2".
http://www.dbsinstall.com/diy/reference/PipeAndTubeWallThicknessChart.asp

I simply need an antenna mast of about 12 feet high for a new WISP 802.11
antenna & radio setup. Winds can be high at times. Soil is rocky clay. I
prefer NOT to have guy wires as the kids play in that area.

How's your stick arc welding? Jack hammer enough of the concrete from
around the pipe to expose enough of the original 3.5" ID steel pipe to
make an effective weld. Find an internal sleeve that's approximately
the correct size. My guess is 3" steel pipe will have roughly a 3.5"
OD can will make a good sleeve. You might have to do some grinding to
the OD in order to get it to fit. Pound it into the original 3" pipe
in the ground. Make some effort to get the pipe to be exactly
vertical. It makes antenna aiming MUCH easier. Tack weld in place.

When you're done welding the stub/nipple, you'll probably need to mix
a little concrete and fill in the area around the welt to prevent
water accumulation. I suggest removing as much slag as possible and
painting with a rust resistant paint, before applying the concrete.

At this point, you have several choices. If you use a threaded 3"
steel pipe, you can attach any of an assortment of pipe fittings to
extend the pipe to the desired altitude. However, I wouldn't do that.
12ft is a LONG way to go with a single steel pipe. Even with pipe
fitting or pipe union, it's going to wobble. You're also looking at
7.3 lbs per foot for 3" pipe or 88 lbs of pipe.
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/steel-pipes-weights-d_774.html
If you don't like guy wires, you'll need to do a good stick arc
welding job.

You can go to a smaller diameter pipe, but if your 2.4GHz antenna has
a narrow beamwidth, you're going to have alignment stability problems,
especially when the wind is blowing. For example, the common 24dBi
parabolic dish antenna has about a 6 degree -3dB beamwidth, which has
to be aimed within about a 3 degree range to be usable. That's not
easy on top of a 12 ft pole unless it's VERY stable.

Q1: If I stick with the original idea, where would I get a 3.5 inch OD
pipe that has threads that can hold a reducer to more available widths?

Any plumbing vendor. Ask for 3" ID 40 steel pipe. I would NOT try to
pound a 12ft pipe length into the 3.5" pipe that's in the ground
(unless you have a 15ft ladder and find it entertaining to use a
sledge hammer on top of the ladder). Use a welded stub/nipple pipe as
previously described.

Q2: If I go with what I have right now, how would YOU shore up the pipe
but still allow easy removal for maintenance?

Nipple sleeve welded in order to extend the original pipe above ground
level. Use a pipe coupler if you want to make it strong an permanent.
Use a pipe union to make it removable but not so strong. Unions are
not made for this type of service. I couldn't find if it will handle
the bending load. That should be researched before building.

Why do you need to lower the pipe? A 12ft step ladder should be
sufficient.

The 14 dBi planar 2.4 Ghz antenna at top is roughly pointed at the WISP
access point; the Bullet M2 radio tells me it has an ACK/Distance of
55/2.6 miles respectively (I'm not sure if that's important); this radio
sees a signal strength of -56 dBm (pretty good); with a transmit CCQ of
83% (just ok).

Ubiquiti products are good. A 14dBi panel antenna means it's probably
a sector antenna (kinda rectangular looking), which will have about a
15 degree vertical beamwidth and about a 60 degree horizontal
beamwidth. That's not very critical or difficult to aim. If your
pipe is really vertical, and you have line of sight, you could
probably preset the antenna and not worry about tweaking it once
erected.

I am stuck at HOW to fix the antenna in the ground so that it won't
wobble & spin (short of digging a new hole & concreting it in) yet being
able to service the antenna (I have ladders but not a 12 foot high step
ladder - plus the ground is sloping so it's unsafe to ladder it).

As previously mentioned, chip away some of the concrete. Pound in a
3" pipe stub/nipple. Arc weld. Add mast.

Do you have ideas how to affix the antenna mast into the old 3.5 inch ID
hole while still being able to remove the entire mast for antenna service?

Yep. Get a 12ft ladder. Without guys, the pipe will not support your
weight so forget about slithering up the pipe using foot pegs or an
ascender. If this bothers you, I suggest you forget about the pipe,
and switch to a 10 ft section of Rohn 25 tower. Weld the base plate
to what's left of the 3.5" pipe in the ground. You will also need to
drill into the concrete to secure the base plate mounting bolts.

Hmmm... with small brats climbing everything in sight, maybe not...

NOTE: In the future I'd like to add a TV antenna but that's not the
primary goal.

You'll have a problem trying to get the 1.625" U bolts that come with
the typical TV antenna to fit the pipe.

Good luck. Try not to kill yourself doing this.
--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Sun, 18 Dec 2011 19:09:08 -0800, miso wrote:

Note whatever you use as "cement", it has to set in the winter. Well
unless the OP is from down under.

Two part catalytic mixes will set at any temperature.

I run into installations in the boonies where it looks like stakes were
epoxied into crevices of rock. Any idea what kind of compounds are used
to do this?

"Anchor bolt grout", usually a two part epoxy. You'll find it at any
hardware store that sells to builders:
http://www.henkelna.com/industrial/loctite-fixmaster-anchor-bolt-grouts-7052.htm
http://www.drillspot.com/products/559445/loctite_1108757_non-sag__no_odor__solvent-free__high_performance_2_part_anchor_bolt_grout_hp
http://www.rohs.loctite.com/us/content_data/53624_lt4731_loctite_grouting_solutions_sell_sheet .pdf
Look for Loctite 1108757. You won't like the price.

This is sort of the case where you don't know how to ask the
right question in google. In fact one spot had threaded pipe in the
rock, and I suspect they found a hole and just filled it to set the pipe
rather than dig into rock.

I carry several star drills in my install kit. I hate pounding holes
by hand into existing concrete pads, but it works. I've never tried
it on rocks.




--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

In Jeff Liebermann writes:

On Sun, 18 Dec 2011 19:09:08 -0800, miso wrote:

Note whatever you use as "cement", it has to set in the winter. Well
unless the OP is from down under.

Two part catalytic mixes will set at any temperature.

I hear they might still have some spare stuff left
over from Boston's Big Dig....

--
__________________________________________________ ___
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key

[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]

On Sun, 18 Dec 2011 23:19:55 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
I carry several star drills in my install kit. I hate pounding holes by
hand into existing concrete pads, but it works.

Hi Jeff,

This is Soda Springs unconsolidated rocky stuff so I need the 3.5" ID
pipe set in concrete!

My WISP just now suggested I use something called "unistruts" to secure
the 2" ID water pipe (2-3/8" OD) into the 3.5" ID hole.

Do you have any experience with unistruts?

On Sun, 18 Dec 2011 23:19:55 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
I carry several star drills in my install kit. I hate pounding holes by
hand into existing concrete pads, but it works.

Hi Jeff,

This is Soda Springs unconsolidated rocky stuff so I need the 3.5" ID
pipe set in concrete!

My WISP just now suggested I use something called "unistruts" to secure
the 2" ID water pipe (2-3/8" OD) into the 3.5" ID hole.

Do you have any experience with unistruts?

On Sun, 18 Dec 2011 23:00:10 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
Why do you need to lower the pipe?
A 12ft step ladder should be sufficient.

I guess I could buy a 12-foot step ladder - but the footing is
problematic as it's on a slope.

I'm hoping to design in the ability to be able to lower the pipe for
maintenance.

Get a 12ft ladder. Without guys, the pipe will not support your
weight so forget about slithering up the pipe using foot pegs or an
ascender.

I was worried about that. I'm over 200 pounds.

You'll have a problem trying to get the 1.625" U bolts that come with
the typical TV antenna to fit the pipe.

I didn't realize this. I guess I'd remove the 1 1/2" water pipe end cap
at the top of the pole and then thread on a reducer to reduce it down to
1 inch for a couple of feet at the top.

Would the typical TV antenna fit onto a 1 inch ID water pipe?

On Sun, 18 Dec 2011 23:00:10 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
Why do you need to lower the pipe?
A 12ft step ladder should be sufficient.

I guess I could buy a 12-foot step ladder - but the footing is
problematic as it's on a slope.

I'm hoping to design in the ability to be able to lower the pipe for
maintenance.

Get a 12ft ladder. Without guys, the pipe will not support your
weight so forget about slithering up the pipe using foot pegs or an
ascender.

I was worried about that. I'm over 200 pounds.

You'll have a problem trying to get the 1.625" U bolts that come with
the typical TV antenna to fit the pipe.

I didn't realize this. I guess I'd remove the 1 1/2" water pipe end cap
at the top of the pole and then thread on a reducer to reduce it down to
1 inch for a couple of feet at the top.

Would the typical TV antenna fit onto a 1 inch ID water pipe?

On Sun, 18 Dec 2011 23:00:10 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
Why do you need to lower the pipe?
A 12ft step ladder should be sufficient.

I guess I could buy a 12-foot step ladder - but the footing is
problematic as it's on a slope.

I'm hoping to design in the ability to be able to lower the pipe for
maintenance.

Get a 12ft ladder. Without guys, the pipe will not support your
weight so forget about slithering up the pipe using foot pegs or an
ascender.

I was worried about that. I'm over 200 pounds.

You'll have a problem trying to get the 1.625" U bolts that come with
the typical TV antenna to fit the pipe.

I didn't realize this. I guess I'd remove the 1 1/2" water pipe end cap
at the top of the pole and then thread on a reducer to reduce it down to
1 inch for a couple of feet at the top.

Would the typical TV antenna fit onto a 1 inch ID water pipe?

Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Sun, 18 Dec 2011 08:30:46 +0000 (UTC), Frank Wilson
wrote:

I have an old 3.5 inch ID steel tube sunk in 30 inches of concrete. I'm
guessing this was an old satellite dish cut off flush with the surface
(unfortunately). No threads but the steel is 1/4 thick (or so) and in
good shape and it goes down to 30 inches in the concrete.

That would be about the size used for a big C-band 8ft dish. DBS
dishes use smaller pipes, usually 2".
http://www.dbsinstall.com/diy/reference/PipeAndTubeWallThicknessChart.asp

I simply need an antenna mast of about 12 feet high for a new WISP 802.11
antenna & radio setup. Winds can be high at times. Soil is rocky clay. I
prefer NOT to have guy wires as the kids play in that area.

How's your stick arc welding? Jack hammer enough of the concrete from
around the pipe to expose enough of the original 3.5" ID steel pipe to
make an effective weld. Find an internal sleeve that's approximately
the correct size. My guess is 3" steel pipe will have roughly a 3.5"
OD can will make a good sleeve. You might have to do some grinding to
the OD in order to get it to fit. Pound it into the original 3" pipe
in the ground. Make some effort to get the pipe to be exactly
vertical. It makes antenna aiming MUCH easier. Tack weld in place.

When you're done welding the stub/nipple, you'll probably need to mix
a little concrete and fill in the area around the welt to prevent
water accumulation. I suggest removing as much slag as possible and
painting with a rust resistant paint, before applying the concrete.

At this point, you have several choices. If you use a threaded 3"
steel pipe, you can attach any of an assortment of pipe fittings to
extend the pipe to the desired altitude. However, I wouldn't do that.
12ft is a LONG way to go with a single steel pipe. Even with pipe
fitting or pipe union, it's going to wobble. You're also looking at
7.3 lbs per foot for 3" pipe or 88 lbs of pipe.
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/steel-pipes-weights-d_774.html
If you don't like guy wires, you'll need to do a good stick arc
welding job.

You can go to a smaller diameter pipe, but if your 2.4GHz antenna has
a narrow beamwidth, you're going to have alignment stability problems,
especially when the wind is blowing. For example, the common 24dBi
parabolic dish antenna has about a 6 degree -3dB beamwidth, which has
to be aimed within about a 3 degree range to be usable. That's not
easy on top of a 12 ft pole unless it's VERY stable.

Q1: If I stick with the original idea, where would I get a 3.5 inch OD
pipe that has threads that can hold a reducer to more available widths?

Any plumbing vendor. Ask for 3" ID 40 steel pipe. I would NOT try to
pound a 12ft pipe length into the 3.5" pipe that's in the ground
(unless you have a 15ft ladder and find it entertaining to use a
sledge hammer on top of the ladder). Use a welded stub/nipple pipe as
previously described.

Q2: If I go with what I have right now, how would YOU shore up the pipe
but still allow easy removal for maintenance?

Nipple sleeve welded in order to extend the original pipe above ground
level. Use a pipe coupler if you want to make it strong an permanent.
Use a pipe union to make it removable but not so strong. Unions are
not made for this type of service. I couldn't find if it will handle
the bending load. That should be researched before building.

Why do you need to lower the pipe? A 12ft step ladder should be
sufficient.

The 14 dBi planar 2.4 Ghz antenna at top is roughly pointed at the WISP
access point; the Bullet M2 radio tells me it has an ACK/Distance of
55/2.6 miles respectively (I'm not sure if that's important); this radio
sees a signal strength of -56 dBm (pretty good); with a transmit CCQ of
83% (just ok).

Ubiquiti products are good. A 14dBi panel antenna means it's probably
a sector antenna (kinda rectangular looking), which will have about a
15 degree vertical beamwidth and about a 60 degree horizontal
beamwidth. That's not very critical or difficult to aim. If your
pipe is really vertical, and you have line of sight, you could
probably preset the antenna and not worry about tweaking it once
erected.

I am stuck at HOW to fix the antenna in the ground so that it won't
wobble & spin (short of digging a new hole & concreting it in) yet being
able to service the antenna (I have ladders but not a 12 foot high step
ladder - plus the ground is sloping so it's unsafe to ladder it).

As previously mentioned, chip away some of the concrete. Pound in a
3" pipe stub/nipple. Arc weld. Add mast.

Do you have ideas how to affix the antenna mast into the old 3.5 inch ID
hole while still being able to remove the entire mast for antenna service?

Yep. Get a 12ft ladder. Without guys, the pipe will not support your
weight so forget about slithering up the pipe using foot pegs or an
ascender. If this bothers you, I suggest you forget about the pipe,
and switch to a 10 ft section of Rohn 25 tower. Weld the base plate
to what's left of the 3.5" pipe in the ground. You will also need to
drill into the concrete to secure the base plate mounting bolts.

Hmmm... with small brats climbing everything in sight, maybe not...

NOTE: In the future I'd like to add a TV antenna but that's not the
primary goal.

You'll have a problem trying to get the 1.625" U bolts that come with
the typical TV antenna to fit the pipe.

Good luck. Try not to kill yourself doing this.

If you are going to weld, and rather than use guy ropes, you could brace the pole effectively by using standoff tabs and full length reinforcing rod in four vertical positions.

On Mon, 19 Dec 2011 21:42:19 +0000 (UTC), Frank Wilson
wrote:

On Sun, 18 Dec 2011 23:00:10 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
Why do you need to lower the pipe?
A 12ft step ladder should be sufficient.

I guess I could buy a 12-foot step ladder - but the footing is
problematic as it's on a slope.

Look for an "orchard ladder". It has a pipe stabilizer on the other
side to keep from bending the mast with your weight.
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=orchard+ladder

I'm hoping to design in the ability to be able to lower the pipe for
maintenance.

Tilt over masts and towers are available commercially from the various
tower suppliers. You will not like the price. You can also make your
own. Look at the photos for ideas:
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=tilt+over+mast
If you change your mind about the guy wires, it can be done quite
easily with a base mounted hinge point. You also won't need a heavy
weight mast as a simple 10+5ft, 1 5/8" dia, will suffice if you keep
the weight down. For example, no rotator. If wind loading is a
problem, go to an antenna with a smaller wind load, such as a 19dbi or
24dBi barbeque grill parabolic dish. As for the kids, you might try
installing springs on the guys. When they crash into the guy wires,
the damage will be minimal.

I was worried about that. I'm over 200 pounds.

Ok, get a heavy duty ladder and work with a mattress under the ladder.

You'll have a problem trying to get the 1.625" U bolts that come with
the typical TV antenna to fit the pipe.

I didn't realize this. I guess I'd remove the 1 1/2" water pipe end cap
at the top of the pole and then thread on a reducer to reduce it down to
1 inch for a couple of feet at the top.

That will work, but ever fitting will weaken the mast and possibly
make it wobble. For mounting the TV antenna, you can build some
manner of adapter or creative mounting contrivance. I have a mess of
these for the occasion (except mine are 1/4" aluminum and much
larger). Make your own to fit.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/250838545235

Would the typical TV antenna fit onto a 1 inch ID water pipe?

That you could have figured out yourself.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nominal_Pipe_Size
1.315 OD which is less than 1.625 for the TV mast. Yes, it will fit.

--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558
# http://802.11junk.com
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

On 12/18/2011 11:19 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 18 Dec 2011 19:09:08 -0800, wrote:

Note whatever you use as "cement", it has to set in the winter. Well
unless the OP is from down under.

Two part catalytic mixes will set at any temperature.

I run into installations in the boonies where it looks like stakes were
epoxied into crevices of rock. Any idea what kind of compounds are used
to do this?

"Anchor bolt grout", usually a two part epoxy. You'll find it at any
hardware store that sells to builders:
http://www.henkelna.com/industrial/loctite-fixmaster-anchor-bolt-grouts-7052.htm
http://www.drillspot.com/products/559445/loctite_1108757_non-sag__no_odor__solvent-free__high_performance_2_part_anchor_bolt_grout_hp
http://www.rohs.loctite.com/us/content_data/53624_lt4731_loctite_grouting_solutions_sell_sheet .pdf
Look for Loctite 1108757. You won't like the price.

This is sort of the case where you don't know how to ask the
right question in google. In fact one spot had threaded pipe in the
rock, and I suspect they found a hole and just filled it to set the pipe
rather than dig into rock.

I carry several star drills in my install kit. I hate pounding holes
by hand into existing concrete pads, but it works. I've never tried
it on rocks.




I think the gray stuff is what they used. Thanks.

The place where I saw this pipe and anchors was listed to have a seismic
sensor in the general area. I suspect the antenna was mounted with the
pipe in the ground (actually rocky hillside) and guy wire eyelets. You
wouldn't even notice this spot if you weren't hiking up the hill. My
guess is it would have been too much work to take it out.