teabird wrote in news:b0ed7e7e-d0ed-4988-9825-
:

Hello,

I have some 1/2 inch type M copper pipe and 4 90* elbows that I'm
sweating together for practice. I've cut some 8 inch pieces and
yesterday was able to solder one end of each ell to 2 tubes. It took
a few extra tries but I was able to draw the solder into the joint
pretty well. There was alot of smoke created, white and brown. I'm
using yellow canister (Map gas?), cleaning the joints with emery
cloth, flux and using lead free solder.

Are you also using a MAPP torch? You won't get a proper flame if you try to use a bottle of MAPP
gas with a propane torch.

Today I can't seem to get the solder to draw in. I've prepared the
joints as before and am attempting to create a square with the tubes
so this time the ell is connected to 2x 8 inch pieces. I also notice
that even though the solder is eventually melting it is not drawing in
the joint, and when it hardens it has a yellow color to it.

Where are you applying the heat? A common mistake is to heat the joint between the pipe and the
fitting. Always heat the fitting only: the pipe will get plenty hot enough anyway.

Also, make sure to clean and flux both the fitting and the pipe.

On Tue, 7 Feb 2012 14:41:58 +0000 (UTC), Doug Miller
wrote:

teabird wrote in news:b0ed7e7e-d0ed-4988-9825-
:

Hello,

I have some 1/2 inch type M copper pipe and 4 90* elbows that I'm
sweating together for practice. I've cut some 8 inch pieces and
yesterday was able to solder one end of each ell to 2 tubes. It took
a few extra tries but I was able to draw the solder into the joint
pretty well. There was alot of smoke created, white and brown. I'm
using yellow canister (Map gas?), cleaning the joints with emery
cloth, flux and using lead free solder.

Are you also using a MAPP torch? You won't get a proper flame if you try to use a bottle of MAPP
gas with a propane torch.

Today I can't seem to get the solder to draw in. I've prepared the
joints as before and am attempting to create a square with the tubes
so this time the ell is connected to 2x 8 inch pieces. I also notice
that even though the solder is eventually melting it is not drawing in
the joint, and when it hardens it has a yellow color to it.

Where are you applying the heat? A common mistake is to heat the joint between the pipe and the
fitting. Always heat the fitting only: the pipe will get plenty hot enough anyway.


You always heat the biggest heat sink first - which in this case is
the PIPE. The fitting is smaller and thinner and heats faster. I
always heat the pipe where the fitting ends, then move the torch to
the fitting just as I touch the solder to the joint.
Also, make sure to clean and flux both the fitting and the pipe.

wrote in
:

On Tue, 7 Feb 2012 14:41:58 +0000 (UTC), Doug Miller
wrote:

teabird wrote in news:b0ed7e7e-d0ed-4988-9825-
:

Hello,

I have some 1/2 inch type M copper pipe and 4 90* elbows that I'm
sweating together for practice. I've cut some 8 inch pieces and
yesterday was able to solder one end of each ell to 2 tubes. It
took a few extra tries but I was able to draw the solder into the
joint pretty well. There was alot of smoke created, white and brown.
I'm using yellow canister (Map gas?), cleaning the joints with
emery cloth, flux and using lead free solder.

Are you also using a MAPP torch? You won't get a proper flame if you
try to use a bottle of MAPP gas with a propane torch.

Today I can't seem to get the solder to draw in. I've prepared the
joints as before and am attempting to create a square with the tubes
so this time the ell is connected to 2x 8 inch pieces. I also
notice that even though the solder is eventually melting it is not
drawing in the joint, and when it hardens it has a yellow color to
it.

Where are you applying the heat? A common mistake is to heat the joint
between the pipe and the fitting. Always heat the fitting only: the
pipe will get plenty hot enough anyway.


You always heat the biggest heat sink first - which in this case is
the PIPE. The fitting is smaller and thinner and heats faster.

Garbage.

wrote in
:

On Tue, 7 Feb 2012 14:41:58 +0000 (UTC), Doug Miller
wrote:

teabird wrote in news:b0ed7e7e-d0ed-4988-9825-
:

Hello,

I have some 1/2 inch type M copper pipe and 4 90* elbows that I'm
sweating together for practice. I've cut some 8 inch pieces and
yesterday was able to solder one end of each ell to 2 tubes. It
took a few extra tries but I was able to draw the solder into the
joint pretty well. There was alot of smoke created, white and brown.
I'm using yellow canister (Map gas?), cleaning the joints with
emery cloth, flux and using lead free solder.

Are you also using a MAPP torch? You won't get a proper flame if you
try to use a bottle of MAPP gas with a propane torch.

Today I can't seem to get the solder to draw in. I've prepared the
joints as before and am attempting to create a square with the tubes
so this time the ell is connected to 2x 8 inch pieces. I also
notice that even though the solder is eventually melting it is not
drawing in the joint, and when it hardens it has a yellow color to
it.

Where are you applying the heat? A common mistake is to heat the joint
between the pipe and the fitting. Always heat the fitting only: the
pipe will get plenty hot enough anyway.


You always heat the biggest heat sink first - which in this case is
the PIPE. The fitting is smaller and thinner and heats faster.

Garbage. Heat the fitting, never the pipe: this loosens the fit and allows solder to flow in easily.

On Wed, 8 Feb 2012 04:03:45 +0000 (UTC), Doug Miller
wrote:

wrote in
:

On Tue, 7 Feb 2012 14:41:58 +0000 (UTC), Doug Miller
wrote:

teabird wrote in news:b0ed7e7e-d0ed-4988-9825-
:

Hello,

I have some 1/2 inch type M copper pipe and 4 90* elbows that I'm
sweating together for practice. I've cut some 8 inch pieces and
yesterday was able to solder one end of each ell to 2 tubes. It
took a few extra tries but I was able to draw the solder into the
joint pretty well. There was alot of smoke created, white and brown.
I'm using yellow canister (Map gas?), cleaning the joints with
emery cloth, flux and using lead free solder.

Are you also using a MAPP torch? You won't get a proper flame if you
try to use a bottle of MAPP gas with a propane torch.

Today I can't seem to get the solder to draw in. I've prepared the
joints as before and am attempting to create a square with the tubes
so this time the ell is connected to 2x 8 inch pieces. I also
notice that even though the solder is eventually melting it is not
drawing in the joint, and when it hardens it has a yellow color to
it.

Where are you applying the heat? A common mistake is to heat the joint
between the pipe and the fitting. Always heat the fitting only: the
pipe will get plenty hot enough anyway.


You always heat the biggest heat sink first - which in this case is
the PIPE. The fitting is smaller and thinner and heats faster.

Garbage.
Works for me and has for 50 years.

On Wed, 8 Feb 2012 04:05:55 +0000 (UTC), Doug Miller
wrote:

wrote in
:

On Tue, 7 Feb 2012 14:41:58 +0000 (UTC), Doug Miller
wrote:

teabird wrote in news:b0ed7e7e-d0ed-4988-9825-
:

Hello,

I have some 1/2 inch type M copper pipe and 4 90* elbows that I'm
sweating together for practice. I've cut some 8 inch pieces and
yesterday was able to solder one end of each ell to 2 tubes. It
took a few extra tries but I was able to draw the solder into the
joint pretty well. There was alot of smoke created, white and brown.
I'm using yellow canister (Map gas?), cleaning the joints with
emery cloth, flux and using lead free solder.

Are you also using a MAPP torch? You won't get a proper flame if you
try to use a bottle of MAPP gas with a propane torch.

Today I can't seem to get the solder to draw in. I've prepared the
joints as before and am attempting to create a square with the tubes
so this time the ell is connected to 2x 8 inch pieces. I also
notice that even though the solder is eventually melting it is not
drawing in the joint, and when it hardens it has a yellow color to
it.

Where are you applying the heat? A common mistake is to heat the joint
between the pipe and the fitting. Always heat the fitting only: the
pipe will get plenty hot enough anyway.


You always heat the biggest heat sink first - which in this case is
the PIPE. The fitting is smaller and thinner and heats faster.

Garbage. Heat the fitting, never the pipe: this loosens the fit and allows solder to flow in easily.
You need to heet them BOTH - and getting the pipe hot takes more
heat - so you heat it first, then when it is just about at the right
temp to melt the solder you move to the fitting, the whole assembly
reaches melt temp at about the same time, and the solder draws into
the joint neet as you please, with no grapes or bubble-gum hanging
from the joint and no leaks. No overheated fittings and burned flux
either.

On Wed, 08 Feb 2012 16:54:57 -0500, wrote:





Where are you applying the heat? A common mistake is to heat the joint
between the pipe and the fitting. Always heat the fitting only: the
pipe will get plenty hot enough anyway.


You always heat the biggest heat sink first - which in this case is
the PIPE. The fitting is smaller and thinner and heats faster.

Garbage. Heat the fitting, never the pipe: this loosens the fit and allows solder to flow in easily.
You need to heet them BOTH - and getting the pipe hot takes more
heat - so you heat it first, then when it is just about at the right
temp to melt the solder you move to the fitting, the whole assembly
reaches melt temp at about the same time, and the solder draws into
the joint neet as you please, with no grapes or bubble-gum hanging
from the joint and no leaks. No overheated fittings and burned flux
either.

If it works for you continue. In reality, you don't heat the pipe
directly. I used to work in a department that made heat transfer
coils. The guys used to solder or braze thousands of joints per day.
Never did they heat the tubing first. Always the fitting.

What they did though, was custom make torch tips with two flames at 45
to 60 degrees heating the joint, flame facing up. While soldering one
joint, it was pre-heating the next.

Some coils were automated for soldering. Tubes had a slight flare and
the elbow sat inside with a ring of solder. They too heated the
joint, not the tube.

On Wed, 08 Feb 2012 20:26:29 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On Wed, 08 Feb 2012 16:54:57 -0500, wrote:





Where are you applying the heat? A common mistake is to heat the joint
between the pipe and the fitting. Always heat the fitting only: the
pipe will get plenty hot enough anyway.


You always heat the biggest heat sink first - which in this case is
the PIPE. The fitting is smaller and thinner and heats faster.

Garbage. Heat the fitting, never the pipe: this loosens the fit and allows solder to flow in easily.
You need to heet them BOTH - and getting the pipe hot takes more
heat - so you heat it first, then when it is just about at the right
temp to melt the solder you move to the fitting, the whole assembly
reaches melt temp at about the same time, and the solder draws into
the joint neet as you please, with no grapes or bubble-gum hanging
from the joint and no leaks. No overheated fittings and burned flux
either.

If it works for you continue. In reality, you don't heat the pipe
directly. I used to work in a department that made heat transfer
coils. The guys used to solder or braze thousands of joints per day.
Never did they heat the tubing first. Always the fitting.

What they did though, was custom make torch tips with two flames at 45
to 60 degrees heating the joint, flame facing up. While soldering one
joint, it was pre-heating the next.

Some coils were automated for soldering. Tubes had a slight flare and
the elbow sat inside with a ring of solder. They too heated the
joint, not the tube.


Tubing and copper pipe are 2 totally different situations. Tubing is
thin like the fitting. Even Type M, which is the cheap light crap with
the red stripe is heavier than most fittings, while the blue L and
green K type are a LOT thicker. In a lot of heat exchanger units the
manifolds/fittings are significantly thicker/heavier than the tubes.

wrote in news
On Wed, 8 Feb 2012 04:03:45 +0000 (UTC), Doug Miller
wrote:

wrote in
m:

You always heat the biggest heat sink first - which in this case is
the PIPE. The fitting is smaller and thinner and heats faster.

Garbage.
Works for me and has for 50 years.

And therefore, that must be the right way to do it. No possibility that some other way might work better.

wrote in
:

On Wed, 8 Feb 2012 04:05:55 +0000 (UTC), Doug Miller
wrote:

wrote in
m:

On Tue, 7 Feb 2012 14:41:58 +0000 (UTC), Doug Miller
wrote:

teabird wrote in
news:b0ed7e7e-d0ed-4988-9825-
:

Hello,

I have some 1/2 inch type M copper pipe and 4 90* elbows that I'm
sweating together for practice. I've cut some 8 inch pieces and
yesterday was able to solder one end of each ell to 2 tubes. It
took a few extra tries but I was able to draw the solder into the
joint pretty well. There was alot of smoke created, white and
brown.
I'm using yellow canister (Map gas?), cleaning the joints with
emery cloth, flux and using lead free solder.

Are you also using a MAPP torch? You won't get a proper flame if you
try to use a bottle of MAPP gas with a propane torch.

Today I can't seem to get the solder to draw in. I've prepared
the joints as before and am attempting to create a square with the
tubes so this time the ell is connected to 2x 8 inch pieces. I
also notice that even though the solder is eventually melting it
is not drawing in the joint, and when it hardens it has a yellow
color to it.

Where are you applying the heat? A common mistake is to heat the
joint between the pipe and the fitting. Always heat the fitting
only: the pipe will get plenty hot enough anyway.


You always heat the biggest heat sink first - which in this case is
the PIPE. The fitting is smaller and thinner and heats faster.

Garbage. Heat the fitting, never the pipe: this loosens the fit and
allows solder to flow in easily.
You need to heet them BOTH

and applying heat to the fitting, with the pipe inside it, heats them both.

- and getting the pipe hot takes more
heat - so you heat it first,

For crying out loud, clare, you don't have to heat the whole damn pipe, just enough of it to bond the
solder!

then when it is just about at the right
temp to melt the solder you move to the fitting, the whole assembly
reaches melt temp at about the same time, and the solder draws into
the joint neet as you please, with no grapes or bubble-gum hanging
from the joint and no leaks. No overheated fittings and burned flux
either.

You're wasting time and gas. Clean and flux everything, assemble the joint, and apply heat to the
fitting *only*. After a few seconds, touch the solder to the *pipe* 180 degrees away from the flame.
When it's at melting temp, the solder flows into the joint smoothly, filling the joing completely, without
overheated fittings or burnt flux -- in about HALF the time it takes doing it your way.

There is absolutely no need to heat the pipe first, then the fitting.

wrote in
:

Tubing and copper pipe are 2 totally different situations. Tubing is
thin like the fitting. Even Type M, which is the cheap light crap with
the red stripe is heavier than most fittings, while the blue L and
green K type are a LOT thicker. In a lot of heat exchanger units the
manifolds/fittings are significantly thicker/heavier than the tubes.

You should stick to subjects you know something about; this isn't one of them.

I just miked a piece of 1/2" copper pipe and a 1/2" coupling: the pipe wall measured 0.023" and the
wall of the fitting 0.040". So tell me, which is the larger heat sink, the pipe or the fitting which is almost
seventy-five percent thicker than the pipe?

On Thu, 9 Feb 2012 02:34:38 +0000 (UTC), Doug Miller
wrote:

wrote in
:

On Wed, 8 Feb 2012 04:05:55 +0000 (UTC), Doug Miller
wrote:

wrote in
:

On Tue, 7 Feb 2012 14:41:58 +0000 (UTC), Doug Miller
wrote:

teabird wrote in
news:b0ed7e7e-d0ed-4988-9825-
:

Hello,

I have some 1/2 inch type M copper pipe and 4 90* elbows that I'm
sweating together for practice. I've cut some 8 inch pieces and
yesterday was able to solder one end of each ell to 2 tubes. It
took a few extra tries but I was able to draw the solder into the
joint pretty well. There was alot of smoke created, white and
brown.
I'm using yellow canister (Map gas?), cleaning the joints with
emery cloth, flux and using lead free solder.

Are you also using a MAPP torch? You won't get a proper flame if you
try to use a bottle of MAPP gas with a propane torch.

Today I can't seem to get the solder to draw in. I've prepared
the joints as before and am attempting to create a square with the
tubes so this time the ell is connected to 2x 8 inch pieces. I
also notice that even though the solder is eventually melting it
is not drawing in the joint, and when it hardens it has a yellow
color to it.

Where are you applying the heat? A common mistake is to heat the
joint between the pipe and the fitting. Always heat the fitting
only: the pipe will get plenty hot enough anyway.


You always heat the biggest heat sink first - which in this case is
the PIPE. The fitting is smaller and thinner and heats faster.

Garbage. Heat the fitting, never the pipe: this loosens the fit and
allows solder to flow in easily.
You need to heet them BOTH

and applying heat to the fitting, with the pipe inside it, heats them both.

- and getting the pipe hot takes more
heat - so you heat it first,

For crying out loud, clare, you don't have to heat the whole damn pipe, just enough of it to bond the
solder!

then when it is just about at the right
temp to melt the solder you move to the fitting, the whole assembly
reaches melt temp at about the same time, and the solder draws into
the joint neet as you please, with no grapes or bubble-gum hanging
from the joint and no leaks. No overheated fittings and burned flux
either.

You're wasting time and gas. Clean and flux everything, assemble the joint, and apply heat to the
fitting *only*. After a few seconds, touch the solder to the *pipe* 180 degrees away from the flame.
When it's at melting temp, the solder flows into the joint smoothly, filling the joing completely, without
overheated fittings or burnt flux -- in about HALF the time it takes doing it your way.

There is absolutely no need to heat the pipe first, then the fitting.
Well, it doesn't take me very long, and it works every time - even
with mapp gas on my "propane" torch. It IS a high swirl turbo-torch -
unless I use the acelelyne torch.

On Wed, 08 Feb 2012 21:00:03 -0500, wrote:







Tubing and copper pipe are 2 totally different situations. Tubing is
thin like the fitting. Even Type M, which is the cheap light crap with
the red stripe is heavier than most fittings, while the blue L and
green K type are a LOT thicker. In a lot of heat exchanger units the
manifolds/fittings are significantly thicker/heavier than the tubes.


Quite right, but I never said anything about copper pipe did I? I'm
talking tubing. The same .022 and .025 tubing used in most
refrigeration, unit heater and transfer coils in water and steam
systems. Return bends were made from similar tubing.

We made aluminum finned coils from 6" x 6" x 1" up to 48" x 180" x
24". About 90% was copper, but we did some brass and cupro-nickel for
high pressure in ships.

On Thu, 9 Feb 2012 02:45:34 +0000 (UTC), Doug Miller
wrote:

wrote in
:

Tubing and copper pipe are 2 totally different situations. Tubing is
thin like the fitting. Even Type M, which is the cheap light crap with
the red stripe is heavier than most fittings, while the blue L and
green K type are a LOT thicker. In a lot of heat exchanger units the
manifolds/fittings are significantly thicker/heavier than the tubes.

You should stick to subjects you know something about; this isn't one of them.

I just miked a piece of 1/2" copper pipe and a 1/2" coupling: the pipe wall measured 0.023" and the
wall of the fitting 0.040". So tell me, which is the larger heat sink, the pipe or the fitting which is almost
seventy-five percent thicker than the pipe?
I guess it depends on the fitting. and you are measuring the
cheap-asses Type M tubing (and poorly at that - it's .028" wall
thickness) - while L is 040 and L is .049. (assuming half inch -
anything bigger is thicker)

A straight coupling ( 1/2") measures .028", and an LB is thinner
because it STARTS at .028 and is stretched to fit over the pipe, as
well as being stretched on the outer radius. At least a LOT of them
are. I have a 3/4" street elbow in my hand, and it is as thin as .025
and as thick as .035"
3/4" K is .065", L is .045", and M is .032"

So how 'bout YOU stick to what YOU know.

On Wed, 08 Feb 2012 22:39:36 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On Wed, 08 Feb 2012 21:00:03 -0500, wrote:







Tubing and copper pipe are 2 totally different situations. Tubing is
thin like the fitting. Even Type M, which is the cheap light crap with
the red stripe is heavier than most fittings, while the blue L and
green K type are a LOT thicker. In a lot of heat exchanger units the
manifolds/fittings are significantly thicker/heavier than the tubes.


Quite right, but I never said anything about copper pipe did I? I'm
talking tubing. The same .022 and .025 tubing used in most
refrigeration, unit heater and transfer coils in water and steam
systems. Return bends were made from similar tubing.

We made aluminum finned coils from 6" x 6" x 1" up to 48" x 180" x
24". About 90% was copper, but we did some brass and cupro-nickel for
high pressure in ships.
And here I thought the original topic was soldering copper pipe and
90 degree elbows into a square? How terribly stupid of me.

wrote in
:

On Thu, 9 Feb 2012 02:45:34 +0000 (UTC), Doug Miller
wrote:

wrote in
m:

Tubing and copper pipe are 2 totally different situations. Tubing is
thin like the fitting. Even Type M, which is the cheap light crap
with the red stripe is heavier than most fittings, while the blue L
and green K type are a LOT thicker. In a lot of heat exchanger
units the manifolds/fittings are significantly thicker/heavier than
the tubes.

You should stick to subjects you know something about; this isn't one
of them.

I just miked a piece of 1/2" copper pipe and a 1/2" coupling: the pipe
wall measured 0.023" and the wall of the fitting 0.040". So tell me,
which is the larger heat sink, the pipe or the fitting which is almost
seventy-five percent thicker than the pipe?
I guess it depends on the fitting. and you are measuring the
cheap-asses Type M tubing (and poorly at that - it's .028" wall
thickness) - while L is 040 and L is .049. (assuming half inch -
anything bigger is thicker)

A straight coupling ( 1/2") measures .028", and an LB is thinner
because it STARTS at .028 and is stretched to fit over the pipe, as
well as being stretched on the outer radius.

Whether it's 0.023 or 0.028, the 0.040 fitting is still thicker. So much for your harebrained notion that
the pipe is thicker than the fitting.

On Thu, 9 Feb 2012 14:57:47 +0000 (UTC), Doug Miller
wrote:

wrote in
:

On Thu, 9 Feb 2012 02:45:34 +0000 (UTC), Doug Miller
wrote:

wrote in
:

Tubing and copper pipe are 2 totally different situations. Tubing is
thin like the fitting. Even Type M, which is the cheap light crap
with the red stripe is heavier than most fittings, while the blue L
and green K type are a LOT thicker. In a lot of heat exchanger
units the manifolds/fittings are significantly thicker/heavier than
the tubes.

You should stick to subjects you know something about; this isn't one
of them.

I just miked a piece of 1/2" copper pipe and a 1/2" coupling: the pipe
wall measured 0.023" and the wall of the fitting 0.040". So tell me,
which is the larger heat sink, the pipe or the fitting which is almost
seventy-five percent thicker than the pipe?
I guess it depends on the fitting. and you are measuring the
cheap-asses Type M tubing (and poorly at that - it's .028" wall
thickness) - while L is 040 and L is .049. (assuming half inch -
anything bigger is thicker)

A straight coupling ( 1/2") measures .028", and an LB is thinner
because it STARTS at .028 and is stretched to fit over the pipe, as
well as being stretched on the outer radius.

Whether it's 0.023 or 0.028, the 0.040 fitting is still thicker. So much for your harebrained notion that
the pipe is thicker than the fitting.


Were you measuring a BRASS fitting by chance? I gave you the
measurements for 2 copper ones. They are accurate. They are lighter
than all but the cheap-assed type M, which I NEVER use.

wrote in
:

On Thu, 9 Feb 2012 14:57:47 +0000 (UTC), Doug Miller
wrote:

wrote in
m:

On Thu, 9 Feb 2012 02:45:34 +0000 (UTC), Doug Miller
wrote:

wrote in
m:

Tubing and copper pipe are 2 totally different situations. Tubing
is thin like the fitting. Even Type M, which is the cheap light
crap with the red stripe is heavier than most fittings, while the
blue L and green K type are a LOT thicker. In a lot of heat
exchanger units the manifolds/fittings are significantly
thicker/heavier than the tubes.

You should stick to subjects you know something about; this isn't
one of them.

I just miked a piece of 1/2" copper pipe and a 1/2" coupling: the
pipe wall measured 0.023" and the wall of the fitting 0.040". So
tell me, which is the larger heat sink, the pipe or the fitting
which is almost seventy-five percent thicker than the pipe?
I guess it depends on the fitting. and you are measuring the
cheap-asses Type M tubing (and poorly at that - it's .028" wall
thickness) - while L is 040 and L is .049. (assuming half inch -
anything bigger is thicker)

A straight coupling ( 1/2") measures .028", and an LB is thinner
because it STARTS at .028 and is stretched to fit over the pipe, as
well as being stretched on the outer radius.

Whether it's 0.023 or 0.028, the 0.040 fitting is still thicker. So
much for your harebrained notion that the pipe is thicker than the
fitting.


Were you measuring a BRASS fitting by chance? I gave you the
measurements for 2 copper ones. They are accurate. They are lighter
than all but the cheap-assed type M, which I NEVER use.


No, I was measuring copper. The obvious conclusion is you don't know what you're talking about.

On Fri, 10 Feb 2012 02:06:00 +0000 (UTC), Doug Miller
wrote:

wrote in
:

On Thu, 9 Feb 2012 14:57:47 +0000 (UTC), Doug Miller
wrote:

wrote in
:

On Thu, 9 Feb 2012 02:45:34 +0000 (UTC), Doug Miller
wrote:

wrote in
om:

Tubing and copper pipe are 2 totally different situations. Tubing
is thin like the fitting. Even Type M, which is the cheap light
crap with the red stripe is heavier than most fittings, while the
blue L and green K type are a LOT thicker. In a lot of heat
exchanger units the manifolds/fittings are significantly
thicker/heavier than the tubes.

You should stick to subjects you know something about; this isn't
one of them.

I just miked a piece of 1/2" copper pipe and a 1/2" coupling: the
pipe wall measured 0.023" and the wall of the fitting 0.040". So
tell me, which is the larger heat sink, the pipe or the fitting
which is almost seventy-five percent thicker than the pipe?
I guess it depends on the fitting. and you are measuring the
cheap-asses Type M tubing (and poorly at that - it's .028" wall
thickness) - while L is 040 and L is .049. (assuming half inch -
anything bigger is thicker)

A straight coupling ( 1/2") measures .028", and an LB is thinner
because it STARTS at .028 and is stretched to fit over the pipe, as
well as being stretched on the outer radius.

Whether it's 0.023 or 0.028, the 0.040 fitting is still thicker. So
much for your harebrained notion that the pipe is thicker than the
fitting.


Were you measuring a BRASS fitting by chance? I gave you the
measurements for 2 copper ones. They are accurate. They are lighter
than all but the cheap-assed type M, which I NEVER use.


No, I was measuring copper. The obvious conclusion is you don't know what you're talking about.


No, the OBVIOUS conclusion is we are either measuring different
fittings or YOU can';t measure. - and you are a cheapass who uses
inferior M copper. I never use M - and for me, with the fittings we
get here, my method works - and works extremely well. I'm not saying
you have to do it my way - Unlike you, I don't say anyone who
dissagrees with the way I do things (or don't but think others should)
is wrong, or stupid, or inferior.
Different strokes for different folks - but if someone is having a
problem doing things the way they are doing them, and asks for
information, finding out what works for others can be valuable. The OP
can try the way I recommmend and see if it works for them. If it does,
good. If it doesn't, no big loss and no skin off my teeth, or yours.

You don't want to try it? Too bad, so sad - doesn't bother me at all.
You already know it all so you will never learn anything off this
group anyway - so you may as well crawl into your hole under a bridge
somewhere and congratulate yourself on knowing all there is to know
and being perfect.

wrote in
:

On Fri, 10 Feb 2012 02:06:00 +0000 (UTC), Doug Miller
wrote:

wrote in
m:

On Thu, 9 Feb 2012 14:57:47 +0000 (UTC), Doug Miller
wrote:

wrote in
m:

On Thu, 9 Feb 2012 02:45:34 +0000 (UTC), Doug Miller
wrote:

wrote in
news:dm96j75ktn8irfdm7rfd6b1mm268q6c95r@4ax. com:

Tubing and copper pipe are 2 totally different situations.
Tubing is thin like the fitting. Even Type M, which is the cheap
light crap with the red stripe is heavier than most fittings,
while the blue L and green K type are a LOT thicker. In a lot
of heat exchanger units the manifolds/fittings are significantly
thicker/heavier than the tubes.

You should stick to subjects you know something about; this isn't
one of them.

I just miked a piece of 1/2" copper pipe and a 1/2" coupling: the
pipe wall measured 0.023" and the wall of the fitting 0.040". So
tell me, which is the larger heat sink, the pipe or the fitting
which is almost seventy-five percent thicker than the pipe?
I guess it depends on the fitting. and you are measuring the
cheap-asses Type M tubing (and poorly at that - it's .028" wall
thickness) - while L is 040 and L is .049. (assuming half inch -
anything bigger is thicker)

A straight coupling ( 1/2") measures .028", and an LB is thinner
because it STARTS at .028 and is stretched to fit over the pipe,
as well as being stretched on the outer radius.

Whether it's 0.023 or 0.028, the 0.040 fitting is still thicker. So
much for your harebrained notion that the pipe is thicker than the
fitting.


Were you measuring a BRASS fitting by chance? I gave you the
measurements for 2 copper ones. They are accurate. They are lighter
than all but the cheap-assed type M, which I NEVER use.


No, I was measuring copper. The obvious conclusion is you don't know
what you're talking about.


No, the OBVIOUS conclusion is we are either measuring different
fittings or YOU can';t measure. - and you are a cheapass who uses
inferior M copper.

Wrong again. The obvious conclusion is that you are -- wrong again.

I never use M - and for me, with the fittings we
get here, my method works - and works extremely well. I'm not saying
you have to do it my way - Unlike you, I don't say anyone who
dissagrees with the way I do things (or don't but think others should)
is wrong, or stupid, or inferior.

Oddly enough, you *did* say that the way to do it is to heat the pipe first -- IOW, that that's the "right"
way to do it.

And that simply isn't true.