In doing some recent plumbing work, I had to sweat a particularly
difficult and oddly shaped joint in the bathroom wall. I was surprised
when I turned on the water valve and it actually held! (I've never
been good at soldering copper tubing,)

Anyway, a week later, it developed a pinprick leak. In the past, I've
tried to re-sweat joints to no avail. But maybe I'm overlooking a
special technique or product.

Any help would be appreciated. I used tin/antimony solder. For now it
looks like I will have to disassemble the whole thing and that will be
a real mess because I will have to tear part of the wall apart.

Thanks.

On Feb 2, 12:04 pm, 46erjoe wrote:
In doing some recent plumbing work, I had to sweat a particularly
difficult and oddly shaped joint in the bathroom wall. I was surprised
when I turned on the water valve and it actually held! (I've never
been good at soldering copper tubing,)

Anyway, a week later, it developed a pinprick leak. In the past, I've
tried to re-sweat joints to no avail. But maybe I'm overlooking a
special technique or product.

Any help would be appreciated. I used tin/antimony solder. For now it
looks like I will have to disassemble the whole thing and that will be
a real mess because I will have to tear part of the wall apart.

Thanks.

Try cleaning and redoing as you shouldn,t go over solder sounds like
you didn,t have it really clean and enough flux

"46erjoe" wrote in message
...
In doing some recent plumbing work, I had to sweat a particularly
difficult and oddly shaped joint in the bathroom wall. I was surprised
when I turned on the water valve and it actually held! (I've never
been good at soldering copper tubing,)

Anyway, a week later, it developed a pinprick leak. In the past, I've
tried to re-sweat joints to no avail. But maybe I'm overlooking a
special technique or product.

Any help would be appreciated. I used tin/antimony solder. For now it
looks like I will have to disassemble the whole thing and that will be
a real mess because I will have to tear part of the wall apart.

Resweating is a waste of time.
I had a pinhole leak clog and stop once; you might get as lucky.
Otherwise, do it all again!

On Feb 2, 10:04 am, 46erjoe wrote:
In doing some recent plumbing work, I had to sweat a particularly
difficult and oddly shaped joint in the bathroom wall. I was surprised
when I turned on the water valve and it actually held! (I've never
been good at soldering copper tubing,)

Anyway, a week later, it developed a pinprick leak. In the past, I've
tried to re-sweat joints to no avail. But maybe I'm overlooking a
special technique or product.

Any help would be appreciated. I used tin/antimony solder. For now it
looks like I will have to disassemble the whole thing and that will be
a real mess because I will have to tear part of the wall apart.

Thanks.

Make sure there is NO water in the pipe. Sometimes it will sit right
at the joint after you take the connector off. The water will act like
a heat sink and make it a lot harder to sweat together. Find the
lowest point in the home to drain the water back.

On Feb 2, 12:08 pm, "jim" wrote:
On Feb 2, 12:04 pm, 46erjoe wrote:

In doing some recent plumbing work, I had to sweat a particularly
difficult and oddly shaped joint in the bathroom wall. I was surprised
when I turned on the water valve and it actually held! (I've never
been good at soldering copper tubing,)

Anyway, a week later, it developed a pinprick leak. In the past, I've
tried to re-sweat joints to no avail. But maybe I'm overlooking a
special technique or product.

Any help would be appreciated. I used tin/antimony solder. For now it
looks like I will have to disassemble the whole thing and that will be
a real mess because I will have to tear part of the wall apart.

Thanks.

Try cleaning and redoing as you shouldn,t go over solder ...

Have to agree it's unlikely to get a better joint after the water has
been on and it developed a leak.

... sounds like you didn,t have it really clean and enough flux

Or, even more likely if it was new work, I'd suspect not evenly or
enough heat to get full solder flow into the joint. What are you
using for the heat source and how do you apply heat to the joint?
Need enough heat _above_ the joint itself (back into the fitting
direction) to melt the solder all-way-'round the joint w/o the flame
itself being the heating source. Then, apply the solder so it wicks
in--if it's hot enough, it will almost magically just seem to suck it
up into the joint.

If it's an enclosed location, a heat shield behind to avoid direct
flame on flammable is a good idea and can alleviate some of the
concern. Key is to have enough heat to heat the joint quickly and
then get it hot enough before oxidize the flux and it loses its
effectiveness and to get even heat. If access is limited, may need a
longer torch or other aid to get to location. Sometimes it is more
effective to make this difficult joint in the open, then do the final
connection at some other location that is more accessible.

On rework like this, be sure to get all water out to make it simpler.
If there's a problem, there's always the bread sopper trick if all
else fails in getting the last few drops from continuing to get in the
way...

HTH.

To help remove the water either use a shop vac with a jury rigged collection
of tubes taped together to get the size needed to fit over the copper
fittings, sometimes it can take 15 to 20 minutes to remove trickles of water
from a line, open a tap on a far away upper floor to aid in the airflow.
Sometimes a compressor can be used to blast the water from a higher level
down to where you are working.

The old lead/tin solder was much more forgiving in its use with a wide
temperature range where it was "mushy" and could be worked into a joint and
form a fillet. The lead free versions are difficult to get a tight joint.
Overheating can cause it all to flow right out a joint leaving pinholes.
Sometimes it pays to just add a little lead/tin solder over difficult lead
free joint just to build a fillet to plug those pesky pinholes.

"bdeditch" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Feb 2, 10:04 am, 46erjoe wrote:
In doing some recent plumbing work, I had to sweat a particularly
difficult and oddly shaped joint in the bathroom wall. I was surprised
when I turned on the water valve and it actually held! (I've never
been good at soldering copper tubing,)

Anyway, a week later, it developed a pinprick leak. In the past, I've
tried to re-sweat joints to no avail. But maybe I'm overlooking a
special technique or product.

Any help would be appreciated. I used tin/antimony solder. For now it
looks like I will have to disassemble the whole thing and that will be
a real mess because I will have to tear part of the wall apart.

Thanks.

Make sure there is NO water in the pipe. Sometimes it will sit right
at the joint after you take the connector off. The water will act like
a heat sink and make it a lot harder to sweat together. Find the
lowest point in the home to drain the water back.

46erjoe wrote:
In doing some recent plumbing work, I had to sweat a particularly
difficult and oddly shaped joint in the bathroom wall. I was surprised
when I turned on the water valve and it actually held! (I've never
been good at soldering copper tubing,)

Anyway, a week later, it developed a pinprick leak. In the past, I've
tried to re-sweat joints to no avail. But maybe I'm overlooking a
special technique or product.

Any help would be appreciated. I used tin/antimony solder. For now it
looks like I will have to disassemble the whole thing and that will be
a real mess because I will have to tear part of the wall apart.

Thanks.


If you can see where the leak emerges, before you start messing with a
torch, try peening the solder down with a hammer and small punch, use
something like a nail set maybe.

I've "got lucky" that way a couple of times. If you get it to stop
leaking it will probably stay that way forever.

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10^12 furlongs per fortnight.

USE MAPP gas, its a little hotter and helps in more challenging
locations.

Completely redo the joint, replace any cheap fittings, it will be
easier that way!

On Feb 2, 12:04 pm, 46erjoe wrote:
In doing some recent plumbing work, I had to sweat a particularly
difficult and oddly shaped joint in the bathroom wall. I was surprised
when I turned on the water valve and it actually held! (I've never
been good at soldering copper tubing,)

Anyway, a week later, it developed a pinprick leak. In the past, I've
tried to re-sweat joints to no avail. But maybe I'm overlooking a
special technique or product.

Any help would be appreciated. I used tin/antimony solder. For now it
looks like I will have to disassemble the whole thing and that will be
a real mess because I will have to tear part of the wall apart.

Thanks.

Using new fittings is naturally best. But I have been lucky to have a
glass bead blaster to use for cleaning fittings. The routine that
works best is to heat the fitting, wipe out as much old solder as
possible with something (I used a paper towel, quickly) and while
still hot, brush it with flux, wipe again and cool, then clean it in
the blaster. Use the fitting before the copper oxidizes again and you
get perfect joints, even with the new lead free solder. I built my
glass beader for less than $100 and that doesn't qualify as an
expensive tool IMO.

Joe

bdeditch wrote:
On Feb 2, 10:04 am, 46erjoe wrote:
In doing some recent plumbing work, I had to sweat a particularly
difficult and oddly shaped joint in the bathroom wall. I was
surprised when I turned on the water valve and it actually held!
(I've never been good at soldering copper tubing,)

Anyway, a week later, it developed a pinprick leak. In the past, I've
tried to re-sweat joints to no avail. But maybe I'm overlooking a
special technique or product.

Any help would be appreciated. I used tin/antimony solder. For now it
looks like I will have to disassemble the whole thing and that will
be a real mess because I will have to tear part of the wall apart.

Thanks.

Make sure there is NO water in the pipe. Sometimes it will sit right
at the joint after you take the connector off. The water will act like
a heat sink and make it a lot harder to sweat together. Find the
lowest point in the home to drain the water back.


Or, easier still, go to the local Ace hardware store & get some of those
pellets that you put in the pipe to plug it. The pellet, jelly bean or
whatever you want to call it gets pushed into the pipe at least 6" thereby
plugging it, then when the joint is all done, heat the area where the pellet
is and it will dissolve.

On 2 Feb 2007 15:00:07 -0800, "Joe" wrotF:

On Feb 2, 12:04 pm, 46erjoe wrote:
In doing some recent plumbing work, I had to sweat a particularly
difficult and oddly shaped joint in the bathroom wall. I was surprised
when I turned on the water valve and it actually held! (I've never
been good at soldering copper tubing,)

Anyway, a week later, it developed a pinprick leak. In the past, I've
tried to re-sweat joints to no avail. But maybe I'm overlooking a
special technique or product.

Any help would be appreciated. I used tin/antimony solder. For now it
looks like I will have to disassemble the whole thing and that will be
a real mess because I will have to tear part of the wall apart.

Thanks.

Using new fittings is naturally best. But I have been lucky to have a
glass bead blaster to use for cleaning fittings. The routine that
works best is to heat the fitting, wipe out as much old solder as
possible with something (I used a paper towel, quickly) and while
still hot, brush it with flux, wipe again and cool, then clean it in
the blaster. Use the fitting before the copper oxidizes again and you
get perfect joints, even with the new lead free solder. I built my
glass beader for less than $100 and that doesn't qualify as an
expensive tool IMO.

Joe



Well, I tried re-soldering. Leak returned. Took it all apart and
created a new routing system. Did as many joints away from the site as
possible then put it together, this time ending up with five sweats.
So far it's holding.

I think I need to find a website with helpful info on sweating copper.
I learned by trial and error and I probably need to UNleard some
things. I also learned that different fluxes go with different kinds
of solder. I thought they were all the same! Hey lead is lead, right?
Wrong.

Thanks everybody. Keep your finders crossed.

46erjoe wrote:
On 2 Feb 2007 15:00:07 -0800, "Joe" wrotF:

On Feb 2, 12:04 pm, 46erjoe wrote:
In doing some recent plumbing work, I had to sweat a particularly
difficult and oddly shaped joint in the bathroom wall. I was surprised
when I turned on the water valve and it actually held! (I've never
been good at soldering copper tubing,)

Anyway, a week later, it developed a pinprick leak. In the past, I've
tried to re-sweat joints to no avail. But maybe I'm overlooking a
special technique or product.

Any help would be appreciated. I used tin/antimony solder. For now it
looks like I will have to disassemble the whole thing and that will be
a real mess because I will have to tear part of the wall apart.

Thanks.
Using new fittings is naturally best. But I have been lucky to have a
glass bead blaster to use for cleaning fittings. The routine that
works best is to heat the fitting, wipe out as much old solder as
possible with something (I used a paper towel, quickly) and while
still hot, brush it with flux, wipe again and cool, then clean it in
the blaster. Use the fitting before the copper oxidizes again and you
get perfect joints, even with the new lead free solder. I built my
glass beader for less than $100 and that doesn't qualify as an
expensive tool IMO.

Joe



Well, I tried re-soldering. Leak returned. Took it all apart and
created a new routing system. Did as many joints away from the site as
possible then put it together, this time ending up with five sweats.
So far it's holding.

I think I need to find a website with helpful info on sweating copper.
I learned by trial and error and I probably need to UNleard some
things. I also learned that different fluxes go with different kinds
of solder. I thought they were all the same! Hey lead is lead, right?
Wrong.

Thanks everybody. Keep your finders crossed.


Wrong. Lead is lead, but what you solder together
and it's purpose is different. Course you aren't
suppose to be using lead solder for water pipes
anyway.

46erjoe writes:

I think I need to find a website with helpful info on sweating copper.
I learned by trial and error and I probably need to UNleard some
things. I also learned that different fluxes go with different kinds
of solder. I thought they were all the same! Hey lead is lead, right?
Wrong.

Well, there's no lead in plumbing solder any more. It's now almost all
tin, with a little bit of antimony or something else (but definitely not
lead).

Having said that, I've always had good results using decades-old acid
paste flux with the new lead-free solder as long as the surfaces being
soldered are clean.

It would be useful to know *why* you got that pinhole leak (yeah, I
know, probably too late now). If you just didn't get it hot enough or
apply enough solder to get sucked into the joint, but it's otherwise
clean and adequately fluxed, reheating might work. But if it's dirty
inside the joint, no amount of reheating is likely to help.

Dave

The problem I had one time, I was waiting too long to apply the
solder. The fitting would all dry out, and by the time I applied
the solder, it was dried and oxidized. Got to put the solder to
the joint while you are heating. At some point, it sucks the
solder in, and then you stop heating immediately at that moment.

--

Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
..

"Dave Martindale" wrote in message
...

It would be useful to know *why* you got that pinhole leak
(yeah, I
know, probably too late now). If you just didn't get it hot
enough or
apply enough solder to get sucked into the joint, but it's
otherwise
clean and adequately fluxed, reheating might work. But if it's
dirty
inside the joint, no amount of reheating is likely to help.

Dave

replying to 46erjoe, Sid in Sacramento wrote:
somebody wrote:

In doing some recent plumbing work, I had to sweat a particularly
difficult and oddly shaped joint in the bathroom wall. I was surprised
when I turned on the water valve and it actually held! (I've never
been good at soldering copper tubing,)
Anyway, a week later, it developed a pinprick leak. In the past, I've
tried to re-sweat joints to no avail. But maybe I'm overlooking a
special technique or product.
Any help would be appreciated. I used tin/antimony solder. For now it
looks like I will have to disassemble the whole thing and that will be
a real mess because I will have to tear part of the wall apart.
Thanks.


I have seen even the Pros have difficulty sweating some copper joints, you
might look into using ' Sharkbites ' for the joints, they sell them at
your local home depot or lowes, and are rated for behind the wall
placement !

--

On Wed, 24 Jun 2015 00:44:04 +0000, Sid in Sacramento
wrote:

replying to 46erjoe, Sid in Sacramento wrote:
somebody wrote:

In doing some recent plumbing work, I had to sweat a particularly
difficult and oddly shaped joint in the bathroom wall. I was surprised
when I turned on the water valve and it actually held! (I've never
been good at soldering copper tubing,)
Anyway, a week later, it developed a pinprick leak. In the past, I've
tried to re-sweat joints to no avail. But maybe I'm overlooking a
special technique or product.
Any help would be appreciated. I used tin/antimony solder. For now it
looks like I will have to disassemble the whole thing and that will be
a real mess because I will have to tear part of the wall apart.
Thanks.


I have seen even the Pros have difficulty sweating some copper joints, you
might look into using ' Sharkbites ' for the joints, they sell them at
your local home depot or lowes, and are rated for behind the wall
placement !
Drain and blow out the pipe to make sure you are not warting BTUs
boiling water, and use a good high heat torch - a turbo-torch on MAP
or an air/acetylene plumber's torch will do the job. With the old
standard Bernz0Matic propane torch you can pretty well forget about
it. With a turbo torch on Propane you have a fighting chance.

If there is water in the pipe, you might manage in a week as long as
the water is turned off and one eng is open.

On Tuesday, June 23, 2015 at 8:50:07 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wed, 24 Jun 2015 00:44:04 +0000, Sid in Sacramento
wrote:

replying to 46erjoe, Sid in Sacramento wrote:
somebody wrote:

In doing some recent plumbing work, I had to sweat a particularly
difficult and oddly shaped joint in the bathroom wall. I was surprised
when I turned on the water valve and it actually held! (I've never
been good at soldering copper tubing,)
Anyway, a week later, it developed a pinprick leak. In the past, I've
tried to re-sweat joints to no avail. But maybe I'm overlooking a
special technique or product.
Any help would be appreciated. I used tin/antimony solder. For now it
looks like I will have to disassemble the whole thing and that will be
a real mess because I will have to tear part of the wall apart.
Thanks.


I have seen even the Pros have difficulty sweating some copper joints, you
might look into using ' Sharkbites ' for the joints, they sell them at
your local home depot or lowes, and are rated for behind the wall
placement !
Drain and blow out the pipe to make sure you are not warting BTUs
boiling water, and use a good high heat torch - a turbo-torch on MAP
or an air/acetylene plumber's torch will do the job. With the old
standard Bernz0Matic propane torch you can pretty well forget about
it. With a turbo torch on Propane you have a fighting chance.

If there is water in the pipe, you might manage in a week as long as
the water is turned off and one eng is open.

Darnit, the Wayback Machine has gone nuts. Another 8 year old thread. Anyway, I use Oatey tinning flux that contains powdered solder. The big box stores sell it. 8-)

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Oatey-1-7...3742/100347302

http://www.oatey.com/doc/H20_95_Flux.pdf

[8~{} Uncle Solder Monster

On 6/24/2015 1:41 AM, Uncle Monster wrote:
wrote:


Darnit, the Wayback Machine has gone nuts. Another
8 year old thread.


[8~{} Uncle Solder Monster


Worse, it's a moaners hub post from a web
interface, come to invade our humble usenet
list. I've blocked anthing from example dot
com for that reason.

-
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

I bought a expensive Air acetelene torch , it was expensive but worked great.


the are i was working in for 2 washing machines, washtub and distribution for most of the house, was a PIA

do note MAPP gas isnt really mapp gas anymore. they changed it to make it cheaper.

check wikipedia.... it answered why it wasnt as good

On Wed, 24 Jun 2015 06:04:56 -0700 (PDT), bob haller
wrote:

I bought a expensive Air acetelene torch , it was expensive but worked great.


the are i was working in for 2 washing machines, washtub and distribution for most of the house, was a PIA

do note MAPP gas isnt really mapp gas anymore. they changed it to make it cheaper.

check wikipedia.... it answered why it wasnt as good

But it doesn't say when it changed.

Recently? You noticed it when you were using it?

On Wednesday, June 24, 2015 at 7:35:57 AM UTC-5, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 6/24/2015 1:41 AM, Uncle Monster wrote:
wrote:


Darnit, the Wayback Machine has gone nuts. Another
8 year old thread.


[8~{} Uncle Solder Monster


Worse, it's a moaners hub post from a web
interface, come to invade our humble usenet
list. I've blocked anthing from example dot
com for that reason.

-
Heck, I'm using Google Groups and can't see the header information like I can with a real newsreader so I have no fraking idea of the source. o_O

[8~{} Uncle Frak Monster

On Thursday, June 25, 2015 at 12:38:08 AM UTC-4, micky wrote:
On Wed, 24 Jun 2015 06:04:56 -0700 (PDT), bob haller
wrote:

I bought a expensive Air acetelene torch , it was expensive but worked great.


the are i was working in for 2 washing machines, washtub and distribution for most of the house, was a PIA

do note MAPP gas isnt really mapp gas anymore. they changed it to make it cheaper.

check wikipedia.... it answered why it wasnt as good

But it doesn't say when it changed.

Recently? You noticed it when you were using it?

It was about 5 years ago that MAPP gas went missing. As I
understand it, it wasn't that they cheapened it though. Only
one plant in the USA was making it and they decided to close.
The new replacement doesn't burn as hot and it's a problem for
some applications where you could have used it before.

On Thursday, June 25, 2015 at 12:39:21 AM UTC-4, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Wednesday, June 24, 2015 at 7:35:57 AM UTC-5, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 6/24/2015 1:41 AM, Uncle Monster wrote:
wrote:


Darnit, the Wayback Machine has gone nuts. Another
8 year old thread.


[8~{} Uncle Solder Monster


Worse, it's a moaners hub post from a web
interface, come to invade our humble usenet
list. I've blocked anthing from example dot
com for that reason.

-
Heck, I'm using Google Groups and can't see the header information like I can with a real newsreader so I have no fraking idea of the source. o_O

[8~{} Uncle Frak Monster

When viewing a post, in the upper right hand corner, click
on the down arrow that's next to the reply button. Choose
"show original" and you can see where it came from.

On Thursday, June 25, 2015 at 7:15:35 AM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
On Thursday, June 25, 2015 at 12:38:08 AM UTC-4, micky wrote:
On Wed, 24 Jun 2015 06:04:56 -0700 (PDT), bob haller
wrote:

I bought a expensive Air acetelene torch , it was expensive but worked great.


the are i was working in for 2 washing machines, washtub and distribution for most of the house, was a PIA

do note MAPP gas isnt really mapp gas anymore. they changed it to make it cheaper.

check wikipedia.... it answered why it wasnt as good

But it doesn't say when it changed.

Recently? You noticed it when you were using it?

It was about 5 years ago that MAPP gas went missing. As I
understand it, it wasn't that they cheapened it though. Only
one plant in the USA was making it and they decided to close.
The new replacement doesn't burn as hot and it's a problem for
some applications where you could have used it before.

i had a mapp gas torch and tank.it worked awesome.

one day it tipped over and broke. the tank was nearly empty so i replaced it too.

the new tank and torch never worked as well as the old one.

i finally understood what happened, when i had a big copper job and stumbled onto thye wikipedia article.

i bought a air acetelene torch from a welding gas place. its flame will handle anything, its uper hot but cost a fortune

i dont enjoy copper plumbing, but the area woulnt of done well with pex. although i guess i could of just redesigned the entire water lines in the basement.

On Thursday, June 25, 2015 at 7:29:57 AM UTC-4, bob haller wrote:

i had a mapp gas torch and tank.it worked awesome.

one day it tipped over and broke. the tank was nearly empty so i replaced it too.

the new tank and torch never worked as well as the old one.

i finally understood what happened, when i had a big copper job and stumbled onto thye wikipedia article.

i bought a air acetelene torch from a welding gas place. its flame will handle anything, its uper hot but cost a fortune

i dont enjoy copper plumbing, but the area woulnt of done well with pex. although i guess i could of just redesigned the entire water lines in the basement.

I've been OK with propane torch for plumbing. With the lead free
solder though it has gotten more difficult than it used to be.

The MAPP torch I bought because I needed to heat some bolts to
get them off. It was one of the basic ones you get at HD. It
worked OK for that use. Years later I went to use it and it's
crap. Almost impossible to get adjusted, it's like the oxygen
valve got real sensitive. So, you waste a lot of gas screwing
around, instead of it doing what it's supposed to do. And without
MAPP gas, it's not as hot either.

Years ago I sold a plumbers torch with a small acetylene tank
that my dad had. I've wished quite a few times since then that
I had kept it. It would have come in handy, but on the other
hand I don't need one that often to make it worthwhile to buy
a new one.

On 6/25/2015 12:38 AM, micky wrote:

do note MAPP gas isnt really mapp gas anymore. they changed it to make it cheaper.

check wikipedia.... it answered why it wasnt as good

But it doesn't say when it changed.

Recently? You noticed it when you were using it?


Some yellow canisters are now called "Mapp-Pro"
which does not mean professional. Sadly, so.
I think it means map diluted with propane.

-
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On 6/25/2015 12:39 AM, Uncle Monster wrote:
Worse, it's a moaners hub post from a web
interface, come to invade our humble usenet
list. I've blocked anthing from example dot
com for that reason.

-
Heck, I'm using Google Groups and can't see the header information like I can with a real newsreader so I have no fraking idea of the source. o_O

[8~{} Uncle Frak Monster


I don't normally associate with Google Gropers,
but make an exception for you.

-
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On 6/25/2015 7:46 AM, trader_4 wrote:

Years ago I sold a plumbers torch with a small acetylene tank
that my dad had. I've wished quite a few times since then that
I had kept it. It would have come in handy, but on the other
hand I don't need one that often to make it worthwhile to buy
a new one.


Sounds like those of us fortunate enough to have
acetylene torch ought to hang onto it?

-
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On Thursday, June 25, 2015 at 7:53:44 AM UTC-4, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 6/25/2015 12:38 AM, micky wrote:

do note MAPP gas isnt really mapp gas anymore. they changed it to make it cheaper.

check wikipedia.... it answered why it wasnt as good

But it doesn't say when it changed.

Recently? You noticed it when you were using it?


Some yellow canisters are now called "Mapp-Pro"
which does not mean professional. Sadly, so.
I think it means map diluted with propane.


It's not diluted MAPP. It's a propane based substitute that doesn't burn
as hot.

On Thursday, June 25, 2015 at 8:24:10 AM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
On Thursday, June 25, 2015 at 7:53:44 AM UTC-4, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 6/25/2015 12:38 AM, micky wrote:

do note MAPP gas isnt really mapp gas anymore. they changed it to make it cheaper.

check wikipedia.... it answered why it wasnt as good

But it doesn't say when it changed.

Recently? You noticed it when you were using it?


Some yellow canisters are now called "Mapp-Pro"
which does not mean professional. Sadly, so.
I think it means map diluted with propane.


It's not diluted MAPP. It's a propane based substitute that doesn't burn
as hot.

and econmics killed it, small market very expensive to manufactuer. ''if a business cant make a profit from anything, its not worth doing.

On 6/25/2015 8:24 AM, trader_4 wrote:
Some yellow canisters are now called "Mapp-Pro"
which does not mean professional. Sadly, so.
I think it means map diluted with propane.


It's not diluted MAPP. It's a propane based substitute that doesn't burn
as hot.


Thanks, you're right:

http://www.contractortalk.com/f40/re...emp-gas-96963/


But, here is what Thermadyne, the parent company of Victor/TurboTorch,
has to say about it.

MAP//PRO, which is produced by Worthington Cylinders of
Columbus, OH, has a higher flame temperature and better
combustion intensity than propane, which enables
professional users to complete their tasks more quickly.
MAP//PRO also has a higher vapor pressure than MAPP
resulting in better performance in colder temperatures.
"The effective BTU output is a measurement of the
quantity of BTUs that actually go into the work piece
when heated", said Paul Minter, VP / General Manager,
TurboTorch."Our lab tests have revealed that MAP//PRO
has approximately a 10% greater BTU output over Propane
and a 14% less effective BTU output than MAPP. Given
the technical advancements offered by TurboTorch
products as the premium brand in the market, our
torches maximize the performance of propylene based
(MAP//PRO)."

On 6/25/2015 9:00 AM, bob haller wrote:
It's not diluted MAPP. It's a propane based substitute that doesn't burn
as hot.

and econmics killed it, small market very expensive
to manufactuer. ''if a business cant make a profit
from anything, its not worth doing.


When we had an economy, I used to do more HVAC / R
work. Used to use Mapp gas for doing silver soldering,
and also was able to braze smaller joints. Guess it's
back to acetylene for me.

-
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On Thursday, June 25, 2015 at 9:56:45 AM UTC-4, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 6/25/2015 8:24 AM, trader_4 wrote:
Some yellow canisters are now called "Mapp-Pro"
which does not mean professional. Sadly, so.
I think it means map diluted with propane.


It's not diluted MAPP. It's a propane based substitute that doesn't burn
as hot.


Thanks, you're right:

http://www.contractortalk.com/f40/re...emp-gas-96963/


But, here is what Thermadyne, the parent company of Victor/TurboTorch,
has to say about it.

MAP//PRO, which is produced by Worthington Cylinders of
Columbus, OH, has a higher flame temperature and better
combustion intensity than propane, which enables
professional users to complete their tasks more quickly.
MAP//PRO also has a higher vapor pressure than MAPP
resulting in better performance in colder temperatures.
"The effective BTU output is a measurement of the
quantity of BTUs that actually go into the work piece
when heated", said Paul Minter, VP / General Manager,
TurboTorch."Our lab tests have revealed that MAP//PRO
has approximately a 10% greater BTU output over Propane
and a 14% less effective BTU output than MAPP. Given
the technical advancements offered by TurboTorch
products as the premium brand in the market, our
torches maximize the performance of propylene based
(MAP//PRO)."

I don't know about the exact numbers and if they're fudging,
but they put MAPP/Pro as higher heat than propane and not as
high as MAPP and I definitely agree with that. I'd also have
to wonder about the BTU output measurement. That is one aspect.
But I think another is how hot the flame gets. You could put
out more BTUs with a bigger flame, but if the flame doesn't
reach the temperature required, eg to melt a metal, then
BTUs aren't going to fix it. From what I've seen, MAPP can
produce a flame temp substantially higher than MAPP/PRO.

Another factor when doing this kind of work, it's usually
better to have a higher heat torch that gets the work done
quickly. With a low temp torch, you're spending more time
heating it, oxidizing it, wasting fuel, etc.

On Thursday, June 25, 2015 at 10:14:02 AM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
On Thursday, June 25, 2015 at 9:56:45 AM UTC-4, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 6/25/2015 8:24 AM, trader_4 wrote:
Some yellow canisters are now called "Mapp-Pro"
which does not mean professional. Sadly, so.
I think it means map diluted with propane.


It's not diluted MAPP. It's a propane based substitute that doesn't burn
as hot.


Thanks, you're right:

http://www.contractortalk.com/f40/re...emp-gas-96963/


But, here is what Thermadyne, the parent company of Victor/TurboTorch,
has to say about it.

MAP//PRO, which is produced by Worthington Cylinders of
Columbus, OH, has a higher flame temperature and better
combustion intensity than propane, which enables
professional users to complete their tasks more quickly.
MAP//PRO also has a higher vapor pressure than MAPP
resulting in better performance in colder temperatures.
"The effective BTU output is a measurement of the
quantity of BTUs that actually go into the work piece
when heated", said Paul Minter, VP / General Manager,
TurboTorch."Our lab tests have revealed that MAP//PRO
has approximately a 10% greater BTU output over Propane
and a 14% less effective BTU output than MAPP. Given
the technical advancements offered by TurboTorch
products as the premium brand in the market, our
torches maximize the performance of propylene based
(MAP//PRO)."

I don't know about the exact numbers and if they're fudging,
but they put MAPP/Pro as higher heat than propane and not as
high as MAPP and I definitely agree with that. I'd also have
to wonder about the BTU output measurement. That is one aspect.
But I think another is how hot the flame gets. You could put
out more BTUs with a bigger flame, but if the flame doesn't
reach the temperature required, eg to melt a metal, then
BTUs aren't going to fix it. From what I've seen, MAPP can
produce a flame temp substantially higher than MAPP/PRO.

Another factor when doing this kind of work, it's usually
better to have a higher heat torch that gets the work done
quickly. With a low temp torch, you're spending more time
heating it, oxidizing it, wasting fuel, etc.

thats why i bought a air acetelene torch it works fast, but cost me 300 bucks.

i could of gotten it cheaper but at that time speed was top priority

On Thu, 25 Jun 2015 00:38:03 -0400, micky
wrote:

On Wed, 24 Jun 2015 06:04:56 -0700 (PDT), bob haller
wrote:

I bought a expensive Air acetelene torch , it was expensive but worked great.


the are i was working in for 2 washing machines, washtub and distribution for most of the house, was a PIA

do note MAPP gas isnt really mapp gas anymore. they changed it to make it cheaper.

check wikipedia.... it answered why it wasnt as good

But it doesn't say when it changed.

Recently? You noticed it when you were using it?
The stuff I bought 2 years ago here in Canada worked just fine.

On 6/25/2015 10:13 AM, trader_4 wrote:
when heated", said Paul Minter, VP / General Manager,
TurboTorch."Our lab tests have revealed that MAP//PRO
has approximately a 10% greater BTU output over Propane
and a 14% less effective BTU output than MAPP. Given
the technical advancements offered by TurboTorch
products as the premium brand in the market, our
torches maximize the performance of propylene based
(MAP//PRO)."

I don't know about the exact numbers and if they're fudging,
but they put MAPP/Pro as higher heat than propane and not as
high as MAPP and I definitely agree with that. I'd also have
to wonder about the BTU output measurement. That is one aspect.
But I think another is how hot the flame gets. You could put
out more BTUs with a bigger flame, but if the flame doesn't
reach the temperature required, eg to melt a metal, then
BTUs aren't going to fix it. From what I've seen, MAPP can
produce a flame temp substantially higher than MAPP/PRO.

Another factor when doing this kind of work, it's usually
better to have a higher heat torch that gets the work done
quickly. With a low temp torch, you're spending more time
heating it, oxidizing it, wasting fuel, etc.

I've had good results wiht the old fashioned
Mapp, and don't expect to have good results
with the new stuff.

I've heard of too many lying stats, and have
lost confidence in number *******. I've found
that about 69.7% of statistics are fudged.

-
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On 6/25/2015 11:48 AM, bob haller wrote:

thats why i bought a air acetelene torch it works fast, but cost me 300 bucks.

i could of gotten it cheaper but at that time speed was top priority


My Dad used to have a sign over his desk:

|=====================|
| GOOD |
| FAST |
| CHEAP |
| |
| choose any two |
|=====================|

Yes if you know what you doing I did it 1000 times, do not over heat and
clean well before redo!!!!!

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message ...

On 6/25/2015 11:48 AM, bob haller wrote:

thats why i bought a air acetelene torch it works fast, but cost me 300
bucks.

i could of gotten it cheaper but at that time speed was top priority


My Dad used to have a sign over his desk:

|=====================|
| GOOD |
| FAST |
| CHEAP |
| |
| choose any two |
|=====================|

On Thu, 25 Jun 2015 04:29:54 -0700 (PDT), bob haller
wrote:


i bought a air acetelene torch from a welding gas place. its flame will handle anything, its uper hot but cost a fortune

Ain't it the truth.

I had a project a couple years ago for which I could have bought a
acelylene torch, but I ended up paying a welding shop to do it for me.
It was only $20.

When I lived in Brooklyn, I had a SolidOx torch, that used propane and
some sort of solid blocks that generated oxygen when they .....burnt,
maybe. With it I actually welded, or maybe I soldered, a chain to
the gate of a parking lot I used, so I only needed two hands to lock the
lock. I was back there a month ago, 30 years later, and the whole
fence has been replaced, including my gate and chain.

On 6/25/2015 6:12 PM, micky wrote:

When I lived in Brooklyn, I had a SolidOx torch, that used propane and
some sort of solid blocks that generated oxygen when they .....burnt,
maybe. With it I actually welded, or maybe I soldered, a chain to
the gate of a parking lot I used, so I only needed two hands to lock the
lock. I was back there a month ago, 30 years later, and the whole
fence has been replaced, including my gate and chain.


Years ago, a guy asked my help to break or grind
off a couple spot welds. The welds were holding
shut a steel gate, at the end of the street. He,
renter in apartment in a multi family building,
wanted to be able to walk his dog on the other
side of the gate, without having to climb over.

I hope it's obvious that I declined.

-

..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..