http://www.dongardner.com/plan_details.aspx?pID=163

http://www.dongardner.com/images.asp...c235front1.jpg
is very similar. The floor plans are very similar. The one rear
exterior photo is not accurate. That garage looks to be bigger than
the actual plans.

Can anyone venture an estimate to the nearest $500 -- $2000, 2500,
3000, 3500, etc. broken out by prep labor, paint labor, and paint?

The existing paint is in good shape -- no peeling, minor fading, but
it's ready for another fresh coat. The paint store quoted about $49
per gallon, but a handyman said he could get it for around $39 per
gallon.

The caulk around windows and doors needs to be replaced. What should
I expect for this? They will remove all the old caulk? Or tear off
the easy stuff and caulk over the old?

BM Moorgard was used last time. I'm thinking to go back with the same
paint and color.

Thanks,

On Sep 19, 12:48*am, kansascats wrote:
http://www.dongardner.com/plan_details.aspx?pID=163

http://www.dongardner.com/images.asp...ors%5c235front....
is very similar. *The floor plans are very similar. *The one rear
exterior photo is not accurate. *That garage looks to be bigger than
the actual plans.

Can anyone venture an estimate to the nearest $500 -- $2000, 2500,
3000, 3500, etc. *broken out by prep labor, paint labor, and paint?

The existing paint is in good shape -- no peeling, minor fading, but
it's ready for another fresh coat. * The paint store quoted about $49
per gallon, but a handyman said he could get it for around $39 per
gallon.

The caulk around windows and doors needs to be replaced. * What should
I expect for this? *They will remove all the old caulk? *Or tear off
the easy stuff and caulk over the old?

BM Moorgard was used last time. *I'm thinking to go back with the same
paint and color.

So...you're looking for a free estimate. Umm, okay. Please provide
the following information:
Where the house is located, what the existing labor situation is in
your area, what the going rate for a painter is in your area, how busy
painter's are in your area, how gullible you are and whether you will
be able to differentiate between a good painter and someone who talks
like they're a good painter, what sort of obstructions and hindrances
(shrubbery and the like), how picky you are, what sort of car you
drive (if it's in the driveway, it will be taken note of before an
estimate is given), whether you believe a sprayed paint job has to be
backrolled or not.

Once I have all of that I'll be able to give you a number.
Unfortunately that number will have exactly zero bearing on reality
and what you will end up paying, as the only person that will have a
say in the pricing is the guy you will end up hiring.

So maybe it's best if you just first locate that guy that you will end
up hiring - you know, the one that will give you a good feeling, comes
with good references, did a good job on a house that you personally
saw, and gives you a price you can live with, and just cut my random
internet ass out of the loop!

I'm messing with you a bit, but the only number that means anything is
the one that you will get from a contractor that you can actually
hire. If Benjamin Moore himself crawled out of the grave and gave you
a _perfect_ estimate number, it's still useless unless a real flesh
and blood, ready, willing and able painter is willing to do it for
that price. So go find that guy.

R

RicodJour wrote in news:fa82a3fa-0d4b-443b-a146-
:

On Sep 19, 12:48*am, kansascats wrote:
http://www.dongardner.com/plan_details.aspx?pID=163

http://www.dongardner.com/images.asp...ors%5c235front
...
is very similar. *The floor plans are very similar. *The one rear
exterior photo is not accurate. *That garage looks to be bigger than
the actual plans.

Can anyone venture an estimate to the nearest $500 -- $2000, 2500,
3000, 3500, etc. *broken out by prep labor, paint labor, and paint?

The existing paint is in good shape -- no peeling, minor fading, but
it's ready for another fresh coat. * The paint store quoted about $49
per gallon, but a handyman said he could get it for around $39 per
gallon.

The caulk around windows and doors needs to be replaced. * What should
I expect for this? *They will remove all the old caulk? *Or tear off
the easy stuff and caulk over the old?

BM Moorgard was used last time. *I'm thinking to go back with the same
paint and color.

So...you're looking for a free estimate. Umm, okay. Please provide
the following information:
Where the house is located, what the existing labor situation is in
your area, what the going rate for a painter is in your area, how busy
painter's are in your area, how gullible you are and whether you will
be able to differentiate between a good painter and someone who talks
like they're a good painter, what sort of obstructions and hindrances
(shrubbery and the like), how picky you are, what sort of car you
drive (if it's in the driveway, it will be taken note of before an
estimate is given), whether you believe a sprayed paint job has to be
backrolled or not.

Once I have all of that I'll be able to give you a number.
Unfortunately that number will have exactly zero bearing on reality
and what you will end up paying, as the only person that will have a
say in the pricing is the guy you will end up hiring.

So maybe it's best if you just first locate that guy that you will end
up hiring - you know, the one that will give you a good feeling, comes
with good references, did a good job on a house that you personally
saw, and gives you a price you can live with, and just cut my random
internet ass out of the loop!

I'm messing with you a bit, but the only number that means anything is
the one that you will get from a contractor that you can actually
hire. If Benjamin Moore himself crawled out of the grave and gave you
a _perfect_ estimate number, it's still useless unless a real flesh
and blood, ready, willing and able painter is willing to do it for
that price. So go find that guy.

R


Dammit Ricod! I had that all typed out, exactly what you said, and your
reply posted :-)

On 9/19/2011 9:17 AM, Red Green wrote:
wrote in news:fa82a3fa-0d4b-443b-a146-
:

On Sep 19, 12:48 am, wrote:
http://www.dongardner.com/plan_details.aspx?pID=163

http://www.dongardner.com/images.asp...ors%5c235front
...
is very similar. The floor plans are very similar. The one rear
exterior photo is not accurate. That garage looks to be bigger than
the actual plans.

Can anyone venture an estimate to the nearest $500 -- $2000, 2500,
3000, 3500, etc. broken out by prep labor, paint labor, and paint?

The existing paint is in good shape -- no peeling, minor fading, but
it's ready for another fresh coat. The paint store quoted about $49
per gallon, but a handyman said he could get it for around $39 per
gallon.

The caulk around windows and doors needs to be replaced. What should
I expect for this? They will remove all the old caulk? Or tear off
the easy stuff and caulk over the old?

BM Moorgard was used last time. I'm thinking to go back with the same
paint and color.
So...you're looking for a free estimate. Umm, okay. Please provide
the following information:
Where the house is located, what the existing labor situation is in
your area, what the going rate for a painter is in your area, how busy
painter's are in your area, how gullible you are and whether you will
be able to differentiate between a good painter and someone who talks
like they're a good painter, what sort of obstructions and hindrances
(shrubbery and the like), how picky you are, what sort of car you
drive (if it's in the driveway, it will be taken note of before an
estimate is given), whether you believe a sprayed paint job has to be
backrolled or not.

Once I have all of that I'll be able to give you a number.
Unfortunately that number will have exactly zero bearing on reality
and what you will end up paying, as the only person that will have a
say in the pricing is the guy you will end up hiring.

So maybe it's best if you just first locate that guy that you will end
up hiring - you know, the one that will give you a good feeling, comes
with good references, did a good job on a house that you personally
saw, and gives you a price you can live with, and just cut my random
internet ass out of the loop!

I'm messing with you a bit, but the only number that means anything is
the one that you will get from a contractor that you can actually
hire. If Benjamin Moore himself crawled out of the grave and gave you
a _perfect_ estimate number, it's still useless unless a real flesh
and blood, ready, willing and able painter is willing to do it for
that price. So go find that guy.

R

Dammit Ricod! I had that all typed out, exactly what you said, and your
reply posted :-)

Really? You can't just say, I don't know, call a painter?

Can anyone venture an estimate to the nearest $500 -- $2000, 2500,
3000, 3500, etc. broken out by prep labor, paint labor, and paint?

If I could do that, I'd be working for the NSA doing remote viewing and
making some real money.

Steve

kansascats wrote:
http://www.dongardner.com/plan_details.aspx?pID=163

http://www.dongardner.com/images.asp...c235front1.jpg
is very similar. The floor plans are very similar. The one rear
exterior photo is not accurate. That garage looks to be bigger than
the actual plans.

Can anyone venture an estimate to the nearest $500 -- $2000, 2500,
3000, 3500, etc. broken out by prep labor, paint labor, and paint?

The existing paint is in good shape -- no peeling, minor fading, but
it's ready for another fresh coat. The paint store quoted about $49
per gallon, but a handyman said he could get it for around $39 per
gallon.

The caulk around windows and doors needs to be replaced. What should
I expect for this? They will remove all the old caulk? Or tear off
the easy stuff and caulk over the old?

BM Moorgard was used last time. I'm thinking to go back with the same
paint and color.

Thanks,

I spent all night making a spread sheet and came up with 1993.47 for
labor, 594.52 for paint, 1287.20 for prep labor. which came to 4999.99
with discount and extras applied.

On Mon, 19 Sep 2011 12:42:30 -0500, Fatter Than Ever Moe
HardTimes@TheFarm wrote:

I spent all night making a spread sheet and came up with 1993.47 for
labor, 594.52 for paint, 1287.20 for prep labor. which came to 4999.99
with discount and extras applied.

Should've used an abacus.

http://chinadigitaltimes.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/abacus.gif

On Sep 19, 10:17*am, Red Green wrote:
RicodJour wrote in news:fa82a3fa-0d4b-443b-a146-
:









On Sep 19, 12:48*am, kansascats wrote:
http://www.dongardner.com/plan_details.aspx?pID=163

http://www.dongardner.com/images.asp...ors%5c235front
...
is very similar. *The floor plans are very similar. *The one rear
exterior photo is not accurate. *That garage looks to be bigger than
the actual plans.

Can anyone venture an estimate to the nearest $500 -- $2000, 2500,
3000, 3500, etc. *broken out by prep labor, paint labor, and paint?

The existing paint is in good shape -- no peeling, minor fading, but
it's ready for another fresh coat. * The paint store quoted about $49
per gallon, but a handyman said he could get it for around $39 per
gallon.

The caulk around windows and doors needs to be replaced. * What should
I expect for this? *They will remove all the old caulk? *Or tear off
the easy stuff and caulk over the old?

BM Moorgard was used last time. *I'm thinking to go back with the same
paint and color.

So...you're looking for a free estimate. *Umm, okay. *Please provide
the following information:
Where the house is located, what the existing labor situation is in
your area, what the going rate for a painter is in your area, how busy
painter's are in your area, how gullible you are and whether you will
be able to differentiate between a good painter and someone who talks
like they're a good painter, what sort of obstructions and hindrances
(shrubbery and the like), how picky you are, what sort of car you
drive (if it's in the driveway, it will be taken note of before an
estimate is given), whether you believe a sprayed paint job has to be
backrolled or not.

Once I have all of that I'll be able to give you a number.
Unfortunately that number will have exactly zero bearing on reality
and what you will end up paying, as the only person that will have a
say in the pricing is the guy you will end up hiring.

So maybe it's best if you just first locate that guy that you will end
up hiring - you know, the one that will give you a good feeling, comes
with good references, did a good job on a house that you personally
saw, and gives you a price you can live with, and just cut my random
internet ass out of the loop!

I'm messing with you a bit, but the only number that means anything is
the one that you will get from a contractor that you can actually
hire. *If Benjamin Moore himself crawled out of the grave and gave you
a _perfect_ estimate number, it's still useless unless a real flesh
and blood, ready, willing and able painter is willing to do it for
that price. *So go find that guy.


Dammit Ricod! I had that all typed out, exactly what you said, and your
reply posted :-)

Are you calling me a thief?!

And, for the record, as far as I can tell I am the first to give
Benjamin Moore life and then take it away.

R

This estimate is like "pheasant under glass". You can look
at it, but you can't make it real.

What's the point of asking for internet estimates? I
estimate $3,426.13. But, I won't do the job. And, you
accomplished.... what?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Fatter Than Ever Moe" HardTimes@TheFarm
wrote in message
...

I spent all night making a spread sheet and came up with
1993.47 for
labor, 594.52 for paint, 1287.20 for prep labor. which
came to 4999.99
with discount and extras applied.

Yeah, but does that come with software installed? And, is it
Y2K compliant? I mean, it's got embedded chips, I mean,
beads.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Oren"
wrote in message
...

Should've used an abacus.

http://chinadigitaltimes.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/abacus.gif

Many variables of course. But with the plans sitting in front of
you -- the rough size of the house which could be used to approximate
the total SF, it seems some estimate like 1 day of wash, 2 days of
prep, 4 days to paint siding, 1 day for trim, could be reasonable.
Figure $40/hr and we come to $2560 plus paint & supplies. Moorgard
is around 35-50 per gal depending on who you ask -- figure $40 for a
contractor. I have no idea how much caulk, but that cannot be a
significant item, so forget it.

House is basically 65x60 -- so figure 250 linear feet x 10 high
(includes the soffits), plus the dormers and porch ceilings, so add
50% brings us to 3600 sf / 300 sf /gal = 12 gallons.

So now I"m at 2500 labor, 500 paint. My idea of an estimate is more
about defining the variables so someone can play with the formula to
suit their needs.

Is what I described above reasonable?

On Sep 20, 2:00*pm, kansascats wrote:
Many variables of course. * *But with the plans sitting in front of
you -- the rough size of the house which could be used to approximate
the total SF, it seems some estimate like 1 day of wash, 2 days of
prep, 4 days to paint siding, 1 day for trim, could be reasonable.
Figure $40/hr and we come to $2560 plus paint & supplies. * Moorgard
is around 35-50 per gal depending on who you ask -- figure $40 for a
contractor. * I have no idea how much caulk, but that cannot be a
significant item, so forget it.

House is basically 65x60 -- so figure 250 linear feet x 10 high
(includes the soffits), plus the dormers and porch ceilings, so add
50% brings us to 3600 sf / 300 sf /gal = 12 gallons.

So now I"m at 2500 labor, 500 paint. * My idea of an estimate is more
about defining the variables so someone can play with the formula to
suit their needs.

Is what I described above reasonable?

To somebody somewhere, sure, to other people elsewhere, assuredly not.

Does that help?

There are a plenitude of construction and remodeling estimating books
that factor in local area modification indices, such as R. S. Means
and the HomeTech books. Find some, compare some, and get a meaningful
answer.

Well, meaningful in the sense that there's data to back up the
estimating numbers. The resultant number will still fall into the "if
you can't get a real guy to do it for that number, it ain't a real
number" category.

I _know_ that helps. I hope you realize that.

R

On Tue, 20 Sep 2011 11:00:53 -0700 (PDT), kansascats
wrote:

So now I"m at 2500 labor, 500 paint. My idea of an estimate is more
about defining the variables so someone can play with the formula to
suit their needs.

Is what I described above reasonable?

Variable:

Has the Painter spent 10 years as an Apprentice (under a craftsman)?

On Sep 20, 4:05*pm, Oren wrote:
On Tue, 20 Sep 2011 11:00:53 -0700 (PDT), kansascats
wrote:

So now I"m at 2500 labor, 500 paint. * My idea of an estimate is more
about defining the variables so someone can play with the formula to
suit their needs.

Is what I described above reasonable?

Variable:

Has the Painter spent 10 years as an Apprentice (under a craftsman)?

Wouldn't it be better if he were an apprentice under a Painter for
those ten years?

R

RicodJour wrote the following:
On Sep 20, 4:05 pm, Oren wrote:
On Tue, 20 Sep 2011 11:00:53 -0700 (PDT), kansascats
wrote:

So now I"m at 2500 labor, 500 paint. My idea of an estimate is more
about defining the variables so someone can play with the formula to
suit their needs.
Is what I described above reasonable?
Variable:

Has the Painter spent 10 years as an Apprentice (under a craftsman)?

Wouldn't it be better if he were an apprentice under a Painter for
those ten years?

R

Why does he have to be under a Craftsman?
What if he he only has Ridgid or other non-Craftsman tools?


--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

On Tue, 20 Sep 2011 13:05:39 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Tue, 20 Sep 2011 11:00:53 -0700 (PDT), kansascats
wrote:

So now I"m at 2500 labor, 500 paint. My idea of an estimate is more
about defining the variables so someone can play with the formula to
suit their needs.

Is what I described above reasonable?

Variable:

Has the Painter spent 10 years as an Apprentice (under a craftsman)?

I think he'd learn to spill less if he worked above the craftsman.

On Tue, 20 Sep 2011 15:49:04 -0700 (PDT), RicodJour
wrote:

On Sep 20, 4:05*pm, Oren wrote:
On Tue, 20 Sep 2011 11:00:53 -0700 (PDT), kansascats
wrote:

So now I"m at 2500 labor, 500 paint. * My idea of an estimate is more
about defining the variables so someone can play with the formula to
suit their needs.

Is what I described above reasonable?

Variable:

Has the Painter spent 10 years as an Apprentice (under a craftsman)?

Wouldn't it be better if he were an apprentice under a Painter for
those ten years?

R

Dag nabbit, I was trying to say that. insert emoticon.

"kansascats" wrote in message
...
http://www.dongardner.com/plan_details.aspx?pID=163

http://www.dongardner.com/images.asp...c235front1.jpg
is very similar. The floor plans are very similar. The one rear
exterior photo is not accurate. That garage looks to be bigger than
the actual plans.

Can anyone venture an estimate to the nearest $500 -- $2000, 2500,
3000, 3500, etc. broken out by prep labor, paint labor, and paint?

The existing paint is in good shape -- no peeling, minor fading, but
it's ready for another fresh coat. The paint store quoted about $49
per gallon, but a handyman said he could get it for around $39 per
gallon.

The caulk around windows and doors needs to be replaced. What should
I expect for this? They will remove all the old caulk? Or tear off
the easy stuff and caulk over the old?

BM Moorgard was used last time. I'm thinking to go back with the same
paint and color.

Thanks,

Prep is the larger expense. Any dumbass can smear paint around.

The cheap bidder most likely will skip the prep step and assure you that a
self priming paint is a miracle thing.

The total estimate will be more than your think it should be.

We await you post regarding a failing new paint job.

Seriously, your time would be better spent getting estimates from local
painters.


--
Colbyt
Please come visit http://www.househomerepair.com

Colbyt - others,

Care to share the key prep tasks how-to's?

I've undertaken powerwashing after a bath of bleach and tsp, then
caulking with Alex Plus and priming with Zinsser 123. There is very
little peeling, so not much to do there. For the larger gaps -- 1/8"
or so I've tried to scrape away any old caulk, but in the case of
smaller gaps I do my best to "rub-in" some new caulk and then prime
overtop a few hours later.

Any suggestions for scaffolding to reach 22' at the peaks of 2 roof
lines? I'm hoping if I can get my feet to 12' with scaffolding, I can
ladder-up another 3' to reach the peaks which will take only a few
minutes to paint, and then I'll be back down onto the scaffold
platform. Any suggestions on accessing the higher parts of the
dormers that I cannot reach from the porch roof itself? And finally
-- how do I stand on a 45 degree roofline for one of the dormers? Do
I just build-out a platform for the roof and drop it on cleats
attached to the roof? How do painters deal with steep roofs?

On Oct 10, 1:55*pm, kansascats wrote:

Any suggestions for scaffolding to reach 22' at the peaks of 2 roof
lines? *I'm hoping if I can get my feet to 12' with scaffolding, I can
ladder-up another 3' to reach the peaks which will take only a few
minutes to paint, and then I'll be back down onto the scaffold
platform.

I think you'll find that doing it that way it will take you a lot less
time than a few minutes to come down. Remember, S=1/2at*2

BTW, do us all a favor and don't spew bull****. You asked a question
about pricing for what a contractor would charge, when you're the I'm-
just-learning-the-ropes painter and don't know what to charge.

If you want help with pricing, just say so. Okay? Thanks.

And don't ****ing kill yourself doing something STOOPID on a
scaffold. If you do, you won't be able to pick up that last check and
there go all of your profits.

R

The quality of participants in these newgroups has gone downhill
significantly over the years. It used to be 1 in 10 were
nonsensical, insincere replies. Now 9 in 10 are. There seem to be a
large numer of unemployed/under employed folks with little else to do
than surf the groups and provide useless responses.

RicodJour -- Your language and false assmptions are disrepectful.
I'm the homeowner. I did get bids. I am also considering my
ability and time to do the job myself.

Colbyt -- I went to your "website" and read Exterior Painting-What Not
to Do. Nice generalities. Let me summarize -- "Do a good job".
There is no content here. No specific how-to's, no product
recommendations based on first-hand experience, etc. I would not
hire you as the "dumb***" painter. Applying paint is far more than
"smearing it around".

alt.home.repair and rec.woodworking used to be my go-to places for
thoughful, hands-on, experienced knowledge on a wide range of
topics. Sad to say -- not so anymore.

..

On Oct 10, 4:33*pm, kansascats wrote:
The quality of participants in these newgroups has gone downhill
significantly over the years. * It used to be 1 in 10 were
nonsensical, insincere replies. *Now 9 in 10 are. * There seem to be a
large numer of unemployed/under employed folks with little else to do
than surf the groups and provide useless responses.

RicodJour -- Your language and false assmptions are disrepectful.
I'm the homeowner. * I did get bids. * I am also considering my
ability and time to do the job myself.

Colbyt -- I went to your "website" and read Exterior Painting-What Not
to Do. *Nice generalities. * Let me summarize -- "Do a good job".
There is no content here. *No specific how-to's, no product
recommendations based on first-hand experience, etc. * I would not
hire you as the "dumb***" painter. * Applying paint is far more than
"smearing it around".

alt.home.repair and rec.woodworking used to be my go-to places for
thoughful, hands-on, experienced knowledge on a wide range of
topics. * Sad to say -- not so anymore.

.

"The quality of participants in these newgroups has gone downhill
significantly over the years."

pssst. "participants" include those asking the questions.

On Mon, 10 Oct 2011 13:33:00 -0700 (PDT), kansascats
wrote:

The quality of participants in these newgroups has gone downhill
significantly over the years. It used to be 1 in 10 were
nonsensical, insincere replies. Now 9 in 10 are. There seem to be a
large numer of unemployed/under employed folks with little else to do
than surf the groups and provide useless responses.


Probably mostly retired. Then as you get old you "forget," or your
skills are outdated.
They have caulks now I never heard of.
You probably know the importance of prepping.
I did a lot of painting with my brother, who was a pro housepainter,
and learned most of what I know from him.
But it was all oil then, so I can't tell you to go with a tapered hog
bristle. I've done no exterior latex at all.
No idea what paints are good now.
It was always Ben Moore oil when I was painting outside, no
exceptions.
But I'll use some latex for my garage - probably next year.
hehe.

Here's about all I'll say.
Roll everywhere where you can and it makes sense.
Never buy a brush bigger than 4" unless you have orangutan arms.
A 2 1/2" taper was always the most used and handiest brush for both me
and my brother. It won't wear out your arms.
Always buy quality brushes.
Always clean them up after use, and when using if they get loaded up.
I never used scaffolds for painting.
If you want a platform you can use a good plank and ladder jacks.
I only used that rig for tuckpointing.
For painting a ladder is easy to move and works well enough.

For a peak rest your ladder on wall below - never on an eave.
I've painted peaks standing 2 steps down from a fully extended 40',
but I was young and stupid.
Could have been 4 steps down and used a stick.
Use good ladders - we always used Werner type 2's, but if you're heavy
you might need a 3. Check the Werner site.
Just don't take any chances with ladders.
If you foot you ladder right but going high makes you nervous, you
might get a belt and lanyard. I bought and used one for papering a
steep roof, even when I was young and stupid, but not too stupid.
Don't rush anything - especially when working high.
Be careful and good luck.

--Vic

On 10/10/2011 1:55 PM, kansascats wrote:
Colbyt - others,



Any suggestions for scaffolding to reach 22' at the peaks of 2 roof
lines? I'm hoping if I can get my feet to 12' with scaffolding, I can
ladder-up another 3' to reach the peaks which will take only a few
minutes to paint, and then I'll be back down onto the scaffold
platform.

LOL! Ladder on a scaffold? Nice troll!

On Oct 10, 4:33*pm, kansascats wrote:

The quality of participants in these newgroups has gone downhill
significantly over the years. * It used to be 1 in 10 were
nonsensical, insincere replies. *Now 9 in 10 are. * There seem to be a
large numer of unemployed/under employed folks with little else to do
than surf the groups and provide useless responses.

RicodJour -- Your language and false assmptions are disrepectful.
I'm the homeowner. * I did get bids. * I am also considering my
ability and time to do the job myself.

Colbyt -- I went to your "website" and read Exterior Painting-What Not
to Do. *Nice generalities. * Let me summarize -- "Do a good job".
There is no content here. *No specific how-to's, no product
recommendations based on first-hand experience, etc. * I would not
hire you as the "dumb***" painter. * Applying paint is far more than
"smearing it around".

alt.home.repair and rec.woodworking used to be my go-to places for
thoughful, hands-on, experienced knowledge on a wide range of
topics. * Sad to say -- not so anymore.

Cry me a river, chief. You started with a wacky fishing expedition
asking an unanswerable question about pricing without providing any
useful information at all, and now you're telling us in advance how
you're planning on killing yourself. Pardon me if I don't show you
the respect you think you reserve, but you have gone about this in a
very, very bizarre way.

You're talking about scaffolding and putting a ladder on top of
scaffolding. That's beyond dumb, and well into the I-want-to-die
territory. You want to paint something 22' up...? Umm, hello!, any
extension ladder will get you that high. Get one of those U-shaped
standoff attachments with the rubber boots, and you're good to go.

Painter's don't erect scaffolding unless it is on some commercial job
over a sidewalk or something. House painting moves too fast and
there's no point taking the time to set up scaffolding.

Instead of telling us what you will be doing and asking a specific
question based on the initial bad decision, ask the questions up
front. It's not asking a lot of you - really.

BTW, I am totally sincere in my reply that I think you will kill
yourself if you insist on working off of a ladder on a scaffold. Make
sure your insurance is up to date, and put plastic down so you don't
leave a mess when you hit.

R

On Oct 10, 5:22*pm, Vic Smith wrote:
On Mon, 10 Oct 2011 13:33:00 -0700 (PDT), kansascats

wrote:
The quality of participants in these newgroups has gone downhill
significantly over the years. * It used to be 1 in 10 were
nonsensical, insincere replies. *Now 9 in 10 are. * There seem to be a
large numer of unemployed/under employed folks with little else to do
than surf the groups and provide useless responses.

Probably mostly retired. *Then as you get old you "forget," or your
skills are outdated.
They have caulks now I never heard of.
You probably know the importance of prepping.
I did a lot of painting with my brother, who was a pro housepainter,
and learned most of what I know from him.
But it was all oil then, so I can't tell you to go with a tapered hog
bristle. *I've done no exterior latex at all.
No idea what paints are good now.
It was always Ben Moore oil when I was painting outside, no
exceptions.
But I'll use some latex for my garage - probably next year.
hehe.

Here's about all I'll say.
Roll everywhere where you can and it makes sense.
Never buy a brush bigger than 4" unless you have orangutan arms.
A 2 1/2" taper was always the most used and handiest brush for both me
and my brother. *It won't wear out your arms.
Always buy quality brushes.
Always clean them up after use, and when using if they get loaded up.
I never used scaffolds for painting.
If you want a platform you can use a good plank and ladder jacks.
I only used that rig for tuckpointing.
For painting a ladder is easy to move and works well *enough.

For a peak rest your ladder on wall below - never on an eave.
I've painted peaks standing 2 steps down from a fully extended 40',
but I was young and stupid.
Could have been 4 steps down and used a stick.
Use good ladders - we always used Werner type 2's, but if you're heavy
you might need a 3. *Check the Werner site.
Just don't take any chances with ladders.
If you foot you ladder right but going high makes you nervous, you
might get a belt and lanyard. *I bought and used one for papering a
steep roof, even when I was young and stupid, but not too stupid.
Don't rush anything - especially when working high.
Be careful and good luck.

Good advice, Vic. One quibble - the lower number ladders are the
stronger ones. A Type 2 is a homeowner's or light duty ladder, a Type
1 is stronger and stiffer, and a Type 1A is the highest rated commonly
available ladder and rated to hold 300#.
http://www.wernerladder.com/safety/performance.php

And you're right, there's been a lot of change in the painting
business. Lots of spraying now, hopefully with backrolling.

R

On Mon, 10 Oct 2011 17:08:08 -0700 (PDT), RicodJour
wrote:



Good advice, Vic. One quibble - the lower number ladders are the
stronger ones. A Type 2 is a homeowner's or light duty ladder, a Type
1 is stronger and stiffer, and a Type 1A is the highest rated commonly
available ladder and rated to hold 300#.
http://www.wernerladder.com/safety/performance.php

And you're right, there's been a lot of change in the painting
business. Lots of spraying now, hopefully with backrolling.


My brother was using mostly airless when he left the business.
Too many college kids on competing crews.
He was paying his guys 3 times more, but they were good when they
could sober up enough to show up.

I wasn't real specific about my main point.
You need good gear and safety.
He has to invest in that, but it will pay off.
We probably had the type 1's. They were stiff.
Never used bouncing ladders.
I bought a new 40' for my place. Cost me an arm and a leg.
But I forget how much. Maybe +$300 in '76. It's long gone.
I never looked at rental prices, but I suspect kansascats should buy a
good 30' and he'll have it forever.
He might rent jacks, plank and another 30' if he needs that for
something and the rental won't kill him.
Or maybe buy everything used for the right price.
Homeowners don't usually paint a house only once, unless they're
selling it.
I'm too lazy now to even contemplate painting a big house.
kansascats might become a fan of aluminum/vinyl.
When you paint a bunch, that happens.
As he'll find out.

--Vic

Vic- appreciate the thoughts.

R - you actually got to some specifics, that I do appreciate.

I have thought about an extension ladder. Holding a paint can/bucket
and waving my arm around at 16' above splat level just is not
something I want to experience. Ok. I know, I know.. you think I'm
insane for putting a ladder atop scaffolding. But wait, I said I
needed to get 3' above the 12' scaffold platform. The peak is 22', I
can reach 7', so I need 15' of lift. Either 5wx7lx6h or 30" x 72"
scaffolding stacked 2 high gets me 12' off the ground on a pretty
stable base after I tack on some outriggers. So now I'm looking at
another 3' to reach that 22' peak. It's a 45 degree roof, so there is
not much to paint at that height. 30 mins with a roller and my 2"
Purdy and I should be done "up there" and get that ladder (or step
stool, or whatever) out of the way. I don't think I will move fast
enough to outrun my scaffolding. I'll work a 6' section, slide it
over, work another 6' section, and so on. That 22' peak is above my
driveway, so sliding the scaffold should be easy enough. The other
side of the 22' is part over a deck and the other part over a flat
surface with a sidewalk 3' from the wall. Then I can use the scaffold
(maybe Perry type) to roll around the rest of the house where it's
mostly 10' and a couple small sections that are 16'.

Yeah, Vic -- you have no idea how many times I rethought purchasing
this masonite siding house. I had vinyl before. Hated it -- but not
so much anymore. The original coat of Moorgard here has worn well --
11 going on 12 years. So I'm hoping to get about 10 on my labor this
go-around. Also, I like the idea of looking over every sq inch of the
place. I get familiar with what's working and what's not. I can
spot rot (3 so far and repaired), poor drainage, roof issues, etc.
I'm not very experienced, but I'm getting some. In fact, once I get
some appreciation for where the paint is wearing well, and not so
well, I'm thinking maybe I can get 12-13 years from may labor if I do
some annual upkeep.

The main challenges I have a
-- those two 22' peaks (gabel ends of 2 car garage)
-- a dormer that sits on a 45 degree roof
-- a dormer that has a 10' peak (but sits on low sloping roof)
-- two gabel ends of the dormers that have about a 10' peak
-- a fake chimney that is going to be a real pain

For the roof work, all I can come up with is build a platform the has
a base that conforms to the roof slope and hold it in-place with a
screwed-down cleat. That dormer that sits on the 45 degree roofline
is going to be a bear, but it's not all that high, so maybe a platform
right next to it will be all that I need.

So other than fooling around with that 22' peak it's about dealing
with dormers ( yes, that and masonite siding are not at the tops of my
list for why I'm living here).

I've spent a good 20 hours thusfar washing, caulking, and spot priming
about 30% of the house and 75% of my other 24x36 building. I work at
it 6-8 hours on the weekends and a couple hours in the evening. At
this rate I should be done before it needs to be repainted ;-)

Now that I have 8 gals of Moorgard staring at me, I also need to
figure out how to spread this stuff. It's thick. I did a quick
roller test and did not like the results. It did not spread as
smoothly as I was hoping.

RicodJour wrote in news:4b7dbe4a-4774-4a7f-ab30-
:

On Oct 10, 4:33*pm, kansascats wrote:

The quality of participants in these newgroups has gone downhill
significantly over the years. * It used to be 1 in 10 were
nonsensical, insincere replies. *Now 9 in 10 are. * There seem to be
a
large numer of unemployed/under employed folks with little else to do
than surf the groups and provide useless responses.

RicodJour -- Your language and false assmptions are disrepectful.
I'm the homeowner. * I did get bids. * I am also considering my
ability and time to do the job myself.

Colbyt -- I went to your "website" and read Exterior Painting-What Not
to Do. *Nice generalities. * Let me summarize -- "Do a good job".
There is no content here. *No specific how-to's, no product
recommendations based on first-hand experience, etc. * I would not
hire you as the "dumb***" painter. * Applying paint is far more than
"smearing it around".

alt.home.repair and rec.woodworking used to be my go-to places for
thoughful, hands-on, experienced knowledge on a wide range of
topics. * Sad to say -- not so anymore.

Cry me a river, chief. You started with a wacky fishing expedition
asking an unanswerable question about pricing without providing any
useful information at all, and now you're telling us in advance how
you're planning on killing yourself. Pardon me if I don't show you
the respect you think you reserve, but you have gone about this in a
very, very bizarre way.

You're talking about scaffolding and putting a ladder on top of
scaffolding. That's beyond dumb, and well into the I-want-to-die
territory. You want to paint something 22' up...? Umm, hello!, any
extension ladder will get you that high. Get one of those U-shaped
standoff attachments with the rubber boots, and you're good to go.

Painter's don't erect scaffolding unless it is on some commercial job
over a sidewalk or something. House painting moves too fast and
there's no point taking the time to set up scaffolding.

Instead of telling us what you will be doing and asking a specific
question based on the initial bad decision, ask the questions up
front. It's not asking a lot of you - really.

BTW, I am totally sincere in my reply that I think you will kill
yourself if you insist on working off of a ladder on a scaffold. Make
sure your insurance is up to date, and put plastic down so you don't
leave a mess when you hit.

R


I've always used pump jacks with uneven bases. Can be put on roofs to get
to upper parts. Not sure why it hasn't been mentioned yet. Maybe I don't
understand the situation. Guess that makes this another useless
responses. But it isn't as dumb as putting a ladder on scaffolding.

Red -- I'm looking into pump jacks but don't quite see the advantage
for my case. A perry type scaffold will help me reach most of the 9'
walls. If 2 of those stacked and with some solid outriggers get me
to 12' then I can reach most of the others except as I noted in my
last post -- the 22' garage gabel ends and part of the dormers. Any
suggestions for setting up a level platform on a roof? Most of my
roof is a very low slope covering a porch. Once section is 45
degrees with a dormer that needs to be painted. I can probably use a
ladder on the low slope with a cleat on the roof. The crazy idea is
to put a small ladder atop the 12' perry scaffold to get another 3'
above the scaffold. I don't like the "sound" of it either. And more
than likely when I"m 12' off the ground standing on a 30" x 72"
platform the idea of going any higher is going to fade.

kansascats wrote in :

Red -- I'm looking into pump jacks but don't quite see the advantage
for my case. A perry type scaffold will help me reach most of the 9'
walls. If 2 of those stacked and with some solid outriggers get me
to 12' then I can reach most of the others except as I noted in my
last post -- the 22' garage gabel ends and part of the dormers. Any
suggestions for setting up a level platform on a roof? Most of my
roof is a very low slope covering a porch. Once section is 45
degrees with a dormer that needs to be painted. I can probably use a
ladder on the low slope with a cleat on the roof. The crazy idea is
to put a small ladder atop the 12' perry scaffold to get another 3'
above the scaffold. I don't like the "sound" of it either. And more
than likely when I"m 12' off the ground standing on a 30" x 72"
platform the idea of going any higher is going to fade.


Can't take a pic of the actual place? Might help others give a
suggestion. I did see your original links.

As far as the garage, like Ricod said, an extension ladder with one of
those U-shaped standoff attachments with the rubber boots.

Thing that attracted me to this one was that depth is adjustable from
13-25". Doing the fascia boards with it adjusted out means no leaning
back or painting overhead...and no ****ting pants in the process.

http://www.industrialladder.com/prod...categoryID=783
Arrived in a matter of days...back in 2009 anyway.

Actual pic of my unit in use. Set about half way depth.

http://i38.tinypic.com/29xu0dw.jpg


As far as working on a 12/12 pitch, maneuvering just yourself on that is
high risk let alone equipment. Jacks and boards are bulky and heavy.
Withdrawl pump jack idea in this area.

Red -- thanks for responses. I don't have an extension ladder. So
by the time I buy a type 2 or better ladder I could probably buy some
used scaffolding and have a nice working platform to dive off of -- or
so that is my thought. The ladder atop scaffolding idea I mentioned
would be a step ladder to get another 3' above the scaffolding -- not
an extension ladder off the scaffolding!! Your picture is exactly
where I need to get.

This is the exact house, http://www.dongardner.com/images.asp...c235front1.jpg
The dormer on the 12/12 is on the back side, it's the upstairs bath,
otherwise this photo is spot-on. The 22' peak is the garage gabel
end. There is a flat driveway on one end to setup on and a deck/
sidewalk on the other. The front dormers on either end I can reach
from the roof. The one in the middle I need to get above the roof
another 3'. The house gabel ends are above the porch roof, so I need
a way again to use a ladder or build a platform on the low slow porch
roof.

As for the paint itself -- I'm using Moorgard.

I had a full can from 10 years ago that I used on another project.
That stuff is THICK. I did not have good luck with using a roller.
Any suggestions? Would a different roller cover help? Some paint
additive? A bit of water to thin?

On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 12:43:37 -0700 (PDT), kansascats
wrote:

As for the paint itself -- I'm using Moorgard.

I had a full can from 10 years ago that I used on another project.
That stuff is THICK. I did not have good luck with using a roller.
Any suggestions? Would a different roller cover help? Some paint
additive? A bit of water to thin?

Mooreguard is good stuff but don't roll it and *certainly* don't thin it with
water! Use a 3 1/2" or 4" brush. You need to get the paint on the bottom
edge of the clapboards, too.

On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 12:37:41 -0700 (PDT), kansascats
wrote:

Red -- thanks for responses. I don't have an extension ladder. So
by the time I buy a type 2 or better ladder I could probably buy some
used scaffolding and have a nice working platform to dive off of -- or
so that is my thought. The ladder atop scaffolding idea I mentioned
would be a step ladder to get another 3' above the scaffolding -- not
an extension ladder off the scaffolding!! Your picture is exactly
where I need to get.

If this is all you need the ladder for (once a decade), rent an appropriate
ladder. My previous house had cedar clapboards, with a 20' dormer on the
back. I used a 20' Type 1A ladder to paint it (rented scaffolding to put up
the cedar).

This is the exact house, http://www.dongardner.com/images.asp...c235front1.jpg
The dormer on the 12/12 is on the back side, it's the upstairs bath,
otherwise this photo is spot-on. The 22' peak is the garage gabel
end. There is a flat driveway on one end to setup on and a deck/
sidewalk on the other. The front dormers on either end I can reach
from the roof. The one in the middle I need to get above the roof
another 3'. The house gabel ends are above the porch roof, so I need
a way again to use a ladder or build a platform on the low slow porch
roof.

So brush on the entire house? I suppose I could roll and then back-
brush?


On Oct 13, 3:16*pm, "
wrote:
On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 12:43:37 -0700 (PDT), kansascats
wrote:

As for the paint itself -- I'm using Moorgard.

I had a full can from 10 years ago that I used on another project.
That stuff is THICK. *I did not have good luck with using a roller.
Any suggestions? *Would a different roller cover help? *Some paint
additive? *A bit of water to thin?

Mooreguard is good stuff but don't roll it and *certainly* don't thin it with
water! *Use a 3 1/2" or 4" brush. *You need to get the paint on the bottom
edge of the clapboards, too.

On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 13:25:53 -0700 (PDT), kansascats
wrote:

So brush on the entire house?

Absolutely! It's not *that* hard. Start at the top, moving the ladder from
side to side. You need to leave a wet edge, so depending on the weather,
maybe only three or four clapboards at a pass. After all the prep work this
part is easy.

I suppose I could roll and then back-brush?

I certainly wouldn't. It's expensive paint and a lot of work to waste by
cutting corners.

On Oct 13, 3:18*pm, "
wrote:
On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 12:37:41 -0700 (PDT), kansascats
wrote:

Red -- thanks for responses. * I don't have an extension ladder. * So
by the time I buy a type 2 or better ladder I could probably buy some
used scaffolding and have a nice working platform to dive off of -- or
so that is my thought. * The ladder atop scaffolding idea I mentioned
would be a step ladder to get another 3' above the scaffolding -- not
an extension ladder off the scaffolding!! *Your picture is exactly
where I need to get.

If this is all you need the ladder for (once a decade), rent an appropriate
ladder. *My previous house had cedar clapboards, with a 20' dormer on the
back. *I used a 20' Type 1A ladder to paint it (rented scaffolding to put up
the cedar). *



This is the exact house,http://www.dongardner.com/images.asp...ors%5c235front...
The dormer on the 12/12 is on the back side, it's the upstairs bath,
otherwise this photo is spot-on. *The 22' peak is the garage gabel
end. *There is a flat driveway on one end to setup on and a deck/
sidewalk on the other. *The front dormers on either end I can reach
from the roof. *The one in the middle I need to get above the roof
another 3'. *The house gabel ends are above the porch roof, so I need
a way again to use a ladder or build a platform on the low slow porch
roof.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I might be able to come-up with 12' of scaffolding for $200 (72" x
30" Perry type). 12' above the ground will get me to most of the
places with that one 22' peak the exception. That's where placing a
small 6' step ladder onto the scaffolding is one idea. Now I have a
platform to reach all levels (with some challenges for the dormers).

I do appreciate the insights given here. Until I actuall stand on a
12' scaffold I don't know how confident I'll be.

On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 13:44:29 -0700 (PDT), kansascats
wrote:

On Oct 13, 3:18*pm, "
wrote:
On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 12:37:41 -0700 (PDT), kansascats
wrote:

Red -- thanks for responses. * I don't have an extension ladder. * So
by the time I buy a type 2 or better ladder I could probably buy some
used scaffolding and have a nice working platform to dive off of -- or
so that is my thought. * The ladder atop scaffolding idea I mentioned
would be a step ladder to get another 3' above the scaffolding -- not
an extension ladder off the scaffolding!! *Your picture is exactly
where I need to get.

If this is all you need the ladder for (once a decade), rent an appropriate
ladder. *My previous house had cedar clapboards, with a 20' dormer on the
back. *I used a 20' Type 1A ladder to paint it (rented scaffolding to put up
the cedar). *



This is the exact house,http://www.dongardner.com/images.asp...ors%5c235front...
The dormer on the 12/12 is on the back side, it's the upstairs bath,
otherwise this photo is spot-on. *The 22' peak is the garage gabel
end. *There is a flat driveway on one end to setup on and a deck/
sidewalk on the other. *The front dormers on either end I can reach
from the roof. *The one in the middle I need to get above the roof
another 3'. *The house gabel ends are above the porch roof, so I need
a way again to use a ladder or build a platform on the low slow porch
roof.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I might be able to come-up with 12' of scaffolding for $200 (72" x
30" Perry type). 12' above the ground will get me to most of the
places with that one 22' peak the exception. That's where placing a
small 6' step ladder onto the scaffolding is one idea. Now I have a
platform to reach all levels (with some challenges for the dormers).

You also have a death trap.

A 24' type-1A ladder at the Borg is $260, new. $184 for a Type-II (but I
wouldn't trust one fully extended). There may be used ones around for half
that.

I do appreciate the insights given here. Until I actuall stand on a
12' scaffold I don't know how confident I'll be.

Hope you have your sea legs and insurance paid up.

On Oct 13, 3:38*pm, "
wrote:
On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 13:25:53 -0700 (PDT), kansascats
wrote:

So brush on the entire house?

Absolutely! *It's not *that* hard. *Start at the top, moving the ladder from
side to side. *You need to leave a wet edge, so depending on the weather,
maybe only three or four clapboards at a pass. *After all the prep work this
part is easy.

I suppose I could roll and then back-brush?

I certainly wouldn't. *It's expensive paint and a lot of work to waste by
cutting corners.

It's $41 a gallon. I have the 4" Purdy. The painters I have bids
from all said they would spray on and back brush. I was planning to
roll/brush. I have some 3 and 4 inch rollers I might still try. But
in my one trial the rollers caused too much "bubbling".