On 6/20/2011 12:25 PM, willshak wrote:
The house was already constructed, but...
http://realestate.aol.com/blog/2011/06/20/real-estate-disclosure-what-you-dont-know-can-hurt-you/?icid=maing-grid7|main5|dl3|sec1_lnk2|71747
or: http://preview.tinyurl.com/3tjdomg

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @


well, duh. they put yuppie subdivisions on top of landfills all the time.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

"Steve Barker" wrote in message
...
On 6/20/2011 12:25 PM, willshak wrote:
The house was already constructed, but...
http://realestate.aol.com/blog/2011/06/20/real-estate-disclosure-what-you-dont-know-can-hurt-you/?icid=maing-grid7|main5|dl3|sec1_lnk2|71747
or: http://preview.tinyurl.com/3tjdomg

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @


well, duh. they put yuppie subdivisions on top of landfills all the time.

Yeah, cheap 12" deep foundations don't provide much support, nor reveal much
underground information. So you could end up overlooking a lot of potential
problems. Up here in the cold north minimum depth is 4 feet, many
foundations go 5 to 7 feet deep to allow for a basement.

On 6/20/2011 8:50 PM, EXT wrote:

"Steve Barker" wrote in message
...
On 6/20/2011 12:25 PM, willshak wrote:
The house was already constructed, but...
http://realestate.aol.com/blog/2011/06/20/real-estate-disclosure-what-you-dont-know-can-hurt-you/?icid=maing-grid7|main5|dl3|sec1_lnk2|71747

or: http://preview.tinyurl.com/3tjdomg

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @


well, duh. they put yuppie subdivisions on top of landfills all the time.

Yeah, cheap 12" deep foundations don't provide much support, nor reveal
much underground information. So you could end up overlooking a lot of
potential problems. Up here in the cold north minimum depth is 4 feet,
many foundations go 5 to 7 feet deep to allow for a basement.

Well, in Florida I've seen houses built with even less that 12"
footings. Without any frost issues, the only thing important is
stability (lack of cracks)...

--
I'm never going to grow up.

On 6/20/2011 7:50 PM, EXT wrote:

"Steve Barker" wrote in message
...
On 6/20/2011 12:25 PM, willshak wrote:
The house was already constructed, but...
http://realestate.aol.com/blog/2011/06/20/real-estate-disclosure-what-you-dont-know-can-hurt-you/?icid=maing-grid7|main5|dl3|sec1_lnk2|71747

or: http://preview.tinyurl.com/3tjdomg

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @


well, duh. they put yuppie subdivisions on top of landfills all the time.

Yeah, cheap 12" deep foundations don't provide much support, nor reveal
much underground information. So you could end up overlooking a lot of
potential problems. Up here in the cold north minimum depth is 4 feet,
many foundations go 5 to 7 feet deep to allow for a basement.

I'm a wondering two things:
1. what lo life jurisdiction only requires a 12" footing?
2. What dumass would build a house without a basement? It's only a
couple thousand more than a crawl or a slab.



--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On Jun 21, 10:21*am, Steve Barker wrote:
On 6/20/2011 7:50 PM, EXT wrote:







"Steve Barker" wrote in message
m...
On 6/20/2011 12:25 PM, willshak wrote:
The house was already constructed, but...
http://realestate.aol.com/blog/2011/06/20/real-estate-disclosure-what....main5|dl3|sec1_lnk2|71747

or:http://preview.tinyurl.com/3tjdomg

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

well, duh. they put yuppie subdivisions on top of landfills all the time.

Yeah, cheap 12" deep foundations don't provide much support, nor reveal
much underground information. So you could end up overlooking a lot of
potential problems. Up here in the cold north minimum depth is 4 feet,
many foundations go 5 to 7 feet deep to allow for a basement.

I'm a wondering two things:
1. what lo life jurisdiction only requires a 12" footing?
2. What dumass would build a house without a basement? *It's only a
couple thousand more than a crawl or a slab.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Southern half of Florida. No frost heave. Lots of areas are not good
places to build basements. Areas with poor drainage or water close to
the surface. Like Florida. You do not find many here in NC either.
Poor drainage and lots of heavy rain. A few where the land slopes
enough that most of the basement is out of the ground anyway. Don't
make assupmtions based on your locality.

On Tue, 21 Jun 2011 09:21:18 -0500, Steve Barker
wrote:

On 6/20/2011 7:50 PM, EXT wrote:

"Steve Barker" wrote in message
...
On 6/20/2011 12:25 PM, willshak wrote:
The house was already constructed, but...
http://realestate.aol.com/blog/2011/06/20/real-estate-disclosure-what-you-dont-know-can-hurt-you/?icid=maing-grid7|main5|dl3|sec1_lnk2|71747

or: http://preview.tinyurl.com/3tjdomg

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @


well, duh. they put yuppie subdivisions on top of landfills all the time.

Yeah, cheap 12" deep foundations don't provide much support, nor reveal
much underground information. So you could end up overlooking a lot of
potential problems. Up here in the cold north minimum depth is 4 feet,
many foundations go 5 to 7 feet deep to allow for a basement.

I'm a wondering two things:
1. what lo life jurisdiction only requires a 12" footing?
2. What dumass would build a house without a basement? It's only a
couple thousand more than a crawl or a slab.

I don't know about foundation codes.
Never saw a basement in Florida.
Think you hit water after a couple feet in much of the state.
In other places where's no water table issue, some developments build
or offer to build slab houses to lower costs and make them affordable
to more people.
Years ago I had a workmate who bought such a slab house.
A basement would have added about 20% to the cost.
He regretted not ordering the basement.
Then if you can afford a big ranch, there's no need for a basement.
I've always had a basement, and most homes around here have them, but
not all. It's a natural plus because lots generally aren't big enough
to spread out a big ranch.
One good thing about basements is they're quiet, and cool in the
summer.
A bad thing is they can flood.

--Vic

On 6/21/2011 9:27 AM, jamesgangnc wrote:
On Jun 21, 10:21 am, Steve wrote:
On 6/20/2011 7:50 PM, EXT wrote:







"Steve wrote in message
...
On 6/20/2011 12:25 PM, willshak wrote:
The house was already constructed, but...
http://realestate.aol.com/blog/2011/06/20/real-estate-disclosure-what...main5|dl3|sec1_lnk2|71747

or:http://preview.tinyurl.com/3tjdomg

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

well, duh. they put yuppie subdivisions on top of landfills all the time.

Yeah, cheap 12" deep foundations don't provide much support, nor reveal
much underground information. So you could end up overlooking a lot of
potential problems. Up here in the cold north minimum depth is 4 feet,
many foundations go 5 to 7 feet deep to allow for a basement.

I'm a wondering two things:
1. what lo life jurisdiction only requires a 12" footing?
2. What dumass would build a house without a basement? It's only a
couple thousand more than a crawl or a slab.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Southern half of Florida. No frost heave. Lots of areas are not good
places to build basements. Areas with poor drainage or water close to
the surface. Like Florida. You do not find many here in NC either.
Poor drainage and lots of heavy rain. A few where the land slopes
enough that most of the basement is out of the ground anyway. Don't
make assupmtions based on your locality.

I'm not making any assumptions at all. It's just commonsense to build a
basement. regardless of soil conditions. It's all workable. AND the
IBC requires footings to be deeper than 12" regardless of location.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On Jun 21, 10:43*am, Steve Barker wrote:
On 6/21/2011 9:27 AM, jamesgangnc wrote:





On Jun 21, 10:21 am, Steve *wrote:
On 6/20/2011 7:50 PM, EXT wrote:

"Steve *wrote in message
news:mt6dnY5ewrMXfGLQnZ2dnUVZ_vOdnZ2d@giganews. com...
On 6/20/2011 12:25 PM, willshak wrote:
The house was already constructed, but...
http://realestate.aol.com/blog/2011/06/20/real-estate-disclosure-what...dl3|sec1_lnk2|71747

or:http://preview.tinyurl.com/3tjdomg

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

well, duh. they put yuppie subdivisions on top of landfills all the time.

Yeah, cheap 12" deep foundations don't provide much support, nor reveal
much underground information. So you could end up overlooking a lot of
potential problems. Up here in the cold north minimum depth is 4 feet,
many foundations go 5 to 7 feet deep to allow for a basement.

I'm a wondering two things:
1. what lo life jurisdiction only requires a 12" footing?
2. What dumass would build a house without a basement? *It's only a
couple thousand more than a crawl or a slab.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Southern half of Florida. *No frost heave. *Lots of areas are not good
places to build basements. *Areas with poor drainage or water close to
the surface. *Like Florida. *You do not find many here in NC either..
Poor drainage and lots of heavy rain. *A few where the land slopes
enough that most of the basement is out of the ground anyway. *Don't
make assupmtions based on your locality.

I'm not making any assumptions at all. *It's just commonsense to build a
basement. *regardless of soil conditions. *It's all workable. AND the
IBC requires footings to be deeper than 12" regardless of location.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
Wrong and wrong.

There are many places in Florida where if you dig 4 feet down your
hole will fill up with water. A basement in those conditions is just
plain stupid. You can't solve that with drainage. It's not
"workable".

And building codes are local, not ibc. Ibc is a model that local
juristictions can start from. They adapt as needed. Since there are
no geological issues or frost in southern florida they don't need a
deep footing. What's under the footing in florida is almost always
sand. You dig deeper you just find more sand. So it's not like you
can dig to a more stable stratum either. And if you dig too deep and
your footing starts filling up with water now you've got a headache on
your hands.

jamesgangnc wrote:

I'm not making any assumptions at all. It's just commonsense to
build a basement. regardless of soil conditions. It's all workable.
AND the IBC requires footings to be deeper than 12" regardless of
location.

Wrong and wrong.

There are many places in Florida where if you dig 4 feet down your
hole will fill up with water. A basement in those conditions is just
plain stupid. You can't solve that with drainage. It's not
"workable".

And building codes are local, not ibc. Ibc is a model that local
juristictions can start from. They adapt as needed. Since there are
no geological issues or frost in southern florida they don't need a
deep footing. What's under the footing in florida is almost always
sand. You dig deeper you just find more sand. So it's not like you
can dig to a more stable stratum either. And if you dig too deep and
your footing starts filling up with water now you've got a headache on
your hands.

Same in all of south Texas. There must be a million homes in the greater
Houston area and maybe six have basements. First, its at least 500' before
you get to a stable rock formation - 'til then it's damp clay. Secondly,
land is relatively cheap (compared to, say, Philadelphia), so homes tend to
move out (sometimes up) to generate square feet.

On 6/21/2011 10:21 AM, Steve Barker wrote:
On 6/20/2011 7:50 PM, EXT wrote:

"Steve Barker" wrote in message
...
On 6/20/2011 12:25 PM, willshak wrote:
The house was already constructed, but...
http://realestate.aol.com/blog/2011/06/20/real-estate-disclosure-what-you-dont-know-can-hurt-you/?icid=maing-grid7|main5|dl3|sec1_lnk2|71747


or: http://preview.tinyurl.com/3tjdomg

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @


well, duh. they put yuppie subdivisions on top of landfills all the
time.

Yeah, cheap 12" deep foundations don't provide much support, nor reveal
much underground information. So you could end up overlooking a lot of
potential problems. Up here in the cold north minimum depth is 4 feet,
many foundations go 5 to 7 feet deep to allow for a basement.

I'm a wondering two things:
1. what lo life jurisdiction only requires a 12" footing?
2. What dumass would build a house without a basement? It's only a
couple thousand more than a crawl or a slab.




1. Most in Florida!

2. Steve, this house is in Florida, where NO houses have basements.
Crawlspaces are not favored either for many reasons.

--
I'm never going to grow up.

On 6/21/2011 10:43 AM, Steve Barker wrote:
On 6/21/2011 9:27 AM, jamesgangnc wrote:
On Jun 21, 10:21 am, Steve wrote:
On 6/20/2011 7:50 PM, EXT wrote:







"Steve wrote in message
...
On 6/20/2011 12:25 PM, willshak wrote:
The house was already constructed, but...
http://realestate.aol.com/blog/2011/06/20/real-estate-disclosure-what...main5|dl3|sec1_lnk2|71747


or:http://preview.tinyurl.com/3tjdomg

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

well, duh. they put yuppie subdivisions on top of landfills all the
time.

Yeah, cheap 12" deep foundations don't provide much support, nor reveal
much underground information. So you could end up overlooking a lot of
potential problems. Up here in the cold north minimum depth is 4 feet,
many foundations go 5 to 7 feet deep to allow for a basement.

I'm a wondering two things:
1. what lo life jurisdiction only requires a 12" footing?
2. What dumass would build a house without a basement? It's only a
couple thousand more than a crawl or a slab.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Southern half of Florida. No frost heave. Lots of areas are not good
places to build basements. Areas with poor drainage or water close to
the surface. Like Florida. You do not find many here in NC either.
Poor drainage and lots of heavy rain. A few where the land slopes
enough that most of the basement is out of the ground anyway. Don't
make assupmtions based on your locality.

I'm not making any assumptions at all. It's just commonsense to build a
basement. regardless of soil conditions.

Only for you, which makes it less common than one might expect. Many,
many places don't build basements, and there are good reasons to not do
so. As well, there are few advantages and many disadvantages to
basements in many places, including increased costs over a simple slab.

It's all workable. AND the IBC
requires footings to be deeper than 12" regardless of location.


I have to ask WHY? They are not necessary in that location...


--
I'm never going to grow up.

PeterD wrote in :

On 6/21/2011 10:21 AM, Steve Barker wrote:
On 6/20/2011 7:50 PM, EXT wrote:

"Steve Barker" wrote in message
...
On 6/20/2011 12:25 PM, willshak wrote:
The house was already constructed, but...
http://realestate.aol.com/blog/2011/...-disclosure-wh
at-you-dont-know-can-hurt-you/?icid=maing-grid7|main5|dl3|sec1_lnk2
|71747


or: http://preview.tinyurl.com/3tjdomg

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @


well, duh. they put yuppie subdivisions on top of landfills all the
time.

Yeah, cheap 12" deep foundations don't provide much support, nor
reveal much underground information. So you could end up overlooking
a lot of potential problems. Up here in the cold north minimum depth
is 4 feet, many foundations go 5 to 7 feet deep to allow for a
basement.

I'm a wondering two things:
1. what lo life jurisdiction only requires a 12" footing?
2. What dumass would build a house without a basement? It's only a
couple thousand more than a crawl or a slab.




1. Most in Florida!

2. Steve, this house is in Florida, where NO houses have basements.
Crawlspaces are not favored either for many reasons.


1. dig a hole in Florida,and it usually fills up with water.
We have no deep freezes,so there's no need to have a deep foundation.

2.crawlspaces in Florida are likely to become a home for unwanted critters
or bug colonies. People have found gators in their garages,in screened
patios,and even inside the house itself. We have "Palmetto Bugs",a giant
cockroach,up to 2" long.They fly,too. They like damp,dark places.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com

On Jun 21, 2:20*pm, Jim Yanik wrote:
PeterD wrote :





On 6/21/2011 10:21 AM, Steve Barker wrote:
On 6/20/2011 7:50 PM, EXT wrote:

"Steve Barker" wrote in message
news:mt6dnY5ewrMXfGLQnZ2dnUVZ_vOdnZ2d@giganews. com...
On 6/20/2011 12:25 PM, willshak wrote:
The house was already constructed, but...
http://realestate.aol.com/blog/2011/...-disclosure-wh
at-you-dont-know-can-hurt-you/?icid=maing-grid7|main5|dl3|sec1_lnk2
|71747

or:http://preview.tinyurl.com/3tjdomg

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

well, duh. they put yuppie subdivisions on top of landfills all the
time.

Yeah, cheap 12" deep foundations don't provide much support, nor
reveal much underground information. So you could end up overlooking
a lot of potential problems. Up here in the cold north minimum depth
is 4 feet, many foundations go 5 to 7 feet deep to allow for a
basement.

I'm a wondering two things:
1. what lo life jurisdiction only requires a 12" footing?
2. What dumass would build a house without a basement? It's only a
couple thousand more than a crawl or a slab.

1. Most in Florida!

2. Steve, this house is in Florida, where NO houses have basements.
Crawlspaces are not favored either for many reasons.

1. dig a hole in Florida,and it usually fills up with water.
We have no deep freezes,so there's no need to have a deep foundation.

2.crawlspaces in Florida are likely to become a home for unwanted critters
or bug colonies. People have found gators in their garages,in screened
patios,and even inside the house itself. We have "Palmetto Bugs",a giant
cockroach,up to 2" long.They fly,too. They like damp,dark places.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

phoenix AZ homes lack basements too. they put up lots of storage sheds

Vic Smith wrote in
:

On Tue, 21 Jun 2011 09:21:18 -0500, Steve Barker
wrote:

On 6/20/2011 7:50 PM, EXT wrote:

"Steve Barker" wrote in message
...
On 6/20/2011 12:25 PM, willshak wrote:
The house was already constructed, but...
http://realestate.aol.com/blog/2011/...-disclosure-wh
at-you-dont-know-can-hurt-you/?icid=maing-grid7|main5|dl3|sec1_lnk2
|71747

or: http://preview.tinyurl.com/3tjdomg

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @


well, duh. they put yuppie subdivisions on top of landfills all the
time.

Yeah, cheap 12" deep foundations don't provide much support, nor
reveal much underground information. So you could end up overlooking
a lot of potential problems. Up here in the cold north minimum depth
is 4 feet, many foundations go 5 to 7 feet deep to allow for a
basement.

I'm a wondering two things:
1. what lo life jurisdiction only requires a 12" footing?
2. What dumass would build a house without a basement? It's only a
couple thousand more than a crawl or a slab.

I don't know about foundation codes.
Never saw a basement in Florida.
Think you hit water after a couple feet in much of the state.
In other places where's no water table issue, some developments build
or offer to build slab houses to lower costs and make them affordable
to more people.
Years ago I had a workmate who bought such a slab house.
A basement would have added about 20% to the cost.
He regretted not ordering the basement.
Then if you can afford a big ranch, there's no need for a basement.
I've always had a basement, and most homes around here have them, but
not all. It's a natural plus because lots generally aren't big enough
to spread out a big ranch.
One good thing about basements is they're quiet, and cool in the
summer.
A bad thing is they can flood.

--Vic







Although I know virtually nothing about FL, a thing to note is it's
highest elevation is 345ft. It's a flat state. No other state has a lower
hishest elevation. A lot has to be at or below sea level I would think.

http://geology.com/state-high-points.shtml

Red Green wrote in
:

Vic Smith wrote in
:

On Tue, 21 Jun 2011 09:21:18 -0500, Steve Barker
wrote:

On 6/20/2011 7:50 PM, EXT wrote:

"Steve Barker" wrote in message
...
On 6/20/2011 12:25 PM, willshak wrote:
The house was already constructed, but...
http://realestate.aol.com/blog/2011/...e-disclosure-w
h
at-you-dont-know-can-hurt-you/?icid=maing-grid7|main5|dl3|sec1_lnk
2
|71747

or: http://preview.tinyurl.com/3tjdomg

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @


well, duh. they put yuppie subdivisions on top of landfills all
the time.

Yeah, cheap 12" deep foundations don't provide much support, nor
reveal much underground information. So you could end up
overlooking a lot of potential problems. Up here in the cold north
minimum depth is 4 feet, many foundations go 5 to 7 feet deep to
allow for a basement.

I'm a wondering two things:
1. what lo life jurisdiction only requires a 12" footing?
2. What dumass would build a house without a basement? It's only a
couple thousand more than a crawl or a slab.

I don't know about foundation codes.
Never saw a basement in Florida.
Think you hit water after a couple feet in much of the state.
In other places where's no water table issue, some developments build
or offer to build slab houses to lower costs and make them affordable
to more people.
Years ago I had a workmate who bought such a slab house.
A basement would have added about 20% to the cost.
He regretted not ordering the basement.
Then if you can afford a big ranch, there's no need for a basement.
I've always had a basement, and most homes around here have them, but
not all. It's a natural plus because lots generally aren't big
enough to spread out a big ranch.
One good thing about basements is they're quiet, and cool in the
summer.
A bad thing is they can flood.

--Vic







Although I know virtually nothing about FL, a thing to note is it's
highest elevation is 345ft. It's a flat state. No other state has a
lower hishest elevation. A lot has to be at or below sea level I would
think.

http://geology.com/state-high-points.shtml


p.s.

This postcard is on the Internet I see. I've had the actual postcard for
like 20 yrs.

http://www.seathelights.com/pc3/5907.jpg

On 6/21/2011 10:39 AM, Vic Smith wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jun 2011 09:21:18 -0500, Steve Barker
wrote:

On 6/20/2011 7:50 PM, EXT wrote:

"Steve wrote in message
...
On 6/20/2011 12:25 PM, willshak wrote:
The house was already constructed, but...
http://realestate.aol.com/blog/2011/06/20/real-estate-disclosure-what-you-dont-know-can-hurt-you/?icid=maing-grid7|main5|dl3|sec1_lnk2|71747

or: http://preview.tinyurl.com/3tjdomg

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @


well, duh. they put yuppie subdivisions on top of landfills all the time.

Yeah, cheap 12" deep foundations don't provide much support, nor reveal
much underground information. So you could end up overlooking a lot of
potential problems. Up here in the cold north minimum depth is 4 feet,
many foundations go 5 to 7 feet deep to allow for a basement.

I'm a wondering two things:
1. what lo life jurisdiction only requires a 12" footing?
2. What dumass would build a house without a basement? It's only a
couple thousand more than a crawl or a slab.

I don't know about foundation codes.
Never saw a basement in Florida.
Think you hit water after a couple feet in much of the state.
In other places where's no water table issue, some developments build
or offer to build slab houses to lower costs and make them affordable
to more people.
Years ago I had a workmate who bought such a slab house.
A basement would have added about 20% to the cost.
He regretted not ordering the basement.
Then if you can afford a big ranch, there's no need for a basement.

There is always a need for a basement. Supply lines and ducts in slabs
or crawls SUCK, as does HVAC and water lines in attic spaces.

Down in western Louisiana, where I spend a couple weeks a year and own
property, current fad is to build concrete basement, build house above
it, then build up the lot to create a house on a hill. Only rich folks
can afford that extreme, of course, but it works- flood protection, and
nice cool breezes on the veranda.

--
aem sends...

On 6/21/2011 5:50 PM, Red Green wrote:
Vic wrote in
:

On Tue, 21 Jun 2011 09:21:18 -0500, Steve Barker
wrote:

On 6/20/2011 7:50 PM, EXT wrote:

"Steve wrote in message
...
On 6/20/2011 12:25 PM, willshak wrote:
The house was already constructed, but...
http://realestate.aol.com/blog/2011/...-disclosure-wh
at-you-dont-know-can-hurt-you/?icid=maing-grid7|main5|dl3|sec1_lnk2
|71747

or: http://preview.tinyurl.com/3tjdomg

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @


well, duh. they put yuppie subdivisions on top of landfills all the
time.

Yeah, cheap 12" deep foundations don't provide much support, nor
reveal much underground information. So you could end up overlooking
a lot of potential problems. Up here in the cold north minimum depth
is 4 feet, many foundations go 5 to 7 feet deep to allow for a
basement.

I'm a wondering two things:
1. what lo life jurisdiction only requires a 12" footing?
2. What dumass would build a house without a basement? It's only a
couple thousand more than a crawl or a slab.

I don't know about foundation codes.
Never saw a basement in Florida.
Think you hit water after a couple feet in much of the state.
In other places where's no water table issue, some developments build
or offer to build slab houses to lower costs and make them affordable
to more people.
Years ago I had a workmate who bought such a slab house.
A basement would have added about 20% to the cost.
He regretted not ordering the basement.
Then if you can afford a big ranch, there's no need for a basement.
I've always had a basement, and most homes around here have them, but
not all. It's a natural plus because lots generally aren't big enough
to spread out a big ranch.
One good thing about basements is they're quiet, and cool in the
summer.
A bad thing is they can flood.

--Vic







Although I know virtually nothing about FL, a thing to note is it's
highest elevation is 345ft. It's a flat state. No other state has a lower
hishest elevation. A lot has to be at or below sea level I would think.

http://geology.com/state-high-points.shtml

I've been to Florida. Didn't see any reason to ever go back. What did
that early explorer call it? 'An uninhabitable sand-spit'?

--
aem sends...

On Tue, 21 Jun 2011 21:50:12 GMT, Red Green
wrote:



Although I know virtually nothing about FL, a thing to note is it's
highest elevation is 345ft. It's a flat state. No other state has a lower
hishest elevation. A lot has to be at or below sea level I would think.

http://geology.com/state-high-points.shtml

Any place I've been to down there near the Atlantic or Gulf the ground
is sand and shells right under the grass.
My dad lives a bit west of Ocala, about 40 miles from the Gulf, and
there's mild hills there. Ground is still sandy with shells.
Somebody mentioned Phoenix not having basements too.
Probably a lot of solid rock.
Basements are probably more cost-effective when you can dig them out
with a back hoe.
If you have to blast, maybe it's best to not have basements, and
spread out and up instead.

--Vic.

On Tue, 21 Jun 2011 21:57:27 GMT, Red Green
wrote:



This postcard is on the Internet I see. I've had the actual postcard for
like 20 yrs.

http://www.seathelights.com/pc3/5907.jpg

I don't have any, but always browse similar - they're better now -
postcard racks while my wife looks for stupid souvenirs for the kids.
Florida postcards beat Jackalope postcards every which way but loose.

--Vic

Vic Smith wrote in
:

On Tue, 21 Jun 2011 21:57:27 GMT, Red Green
wrote:



This postcard is on the Internet I see. I've had the actual postcard for
like 20 yrs.

http://www.seathelights.com/pc3/5907.jpg

I don't have any, but always browse similar - they're better now -
postcard racks while my wife looks for stupid souvenirs for the kids.
Florida postcards beat Jackalope postcards every which way but loose.

--Vic


... - they're better now - postcard racks

Probably a lot more are fake these days ;-)

On Tue, 21 Jun 2011 18:54:10 -0400, aemeijers
wrote:



There is always a need for a basement. Supply lines and ducts in slabs
or crawls SUCK, as does HVAC and water lines in attic spaces.


I never paid any attention to the mechanical systems when I've been in
a slab house. I've read stories of tearing up the slab because of
leaking water supply.
Seems having the water supply come through a wall should take care of
that. A sewer line going bad is bad news even with a basement.
I was surprised to see they put HVAC and water lines in attics in some
parts of the country.
All the slab houses I've been in have a utility room for HVAC.
HVAC ducting in the attic shouldn't be a problem.

Down in western Louisiana, where I spend a couple weeks a year and own
property, current fad is to build concrete basement, build house above
it, then build up the lot to create a house on a hill. Only rich folks
can afford that extreme, of course, but it works- flood protection, and
nice cool breezes on the veranda.

Best way to do it, as long as you have enough land to get a reasonable
slope up to the house.
A woman I worked with was having leg problems before she retired.
Her husband was too.
She told me if I bought another house, just get the biggest ranch you
can afford.
No stairs anywhere.
Though I've always loved my basements, there's some merit to that.

--Vic

aemeijers wrote:

http://geology.com/state-high-points.shtml

I've been to Florida. Didn't see any reason to ever go back. What did
that early explorer call it? 'An uninhabitable sand-spit'?

Florida has several things to commend it, not the least of which is no state
income tax. VERY many of our troops who will be deployed overseas for a year
change their state of residence to Florida (or Texas) for this very reason.

In , Steve Barker wrote:

I'm a wondering two things:
1. what lo life jurisdiction only requires a 12" footing?
2. What dumass would build a house without a basement? It's only a
couple thousand more than a crawl or a slab.

I am under the impression that most houses in Wildwood, NJ do not have
basements.
--
- Don Klipstein )

On Jun 21, 7:56*pm, Vic Smith wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jun 2011 18:54:10 -0400, aemeijers
wrote:



There is always a need for a basement. Supply lines and ducts in slabs
or crawls SUCK, as does HVAC and water lines in attic spaces.

I never paid any attention to the mechanical systems when I've been in
a slab house. *I've read stories of tearing up the slab because of
leaking water supply.
Seems having the water supply come through a wall should take care of
that. *A sewer line going bad is bad news even with a basement.
I was surprised to see they put HVAC and water lines in attics in some
parts of the country.
All the slab houses I've been in have a utility room for HVAC.
HVAC ducting in the attic shouldn't be a problem. *

Down in western Louisiana, where I spend a couple weeks a year and own
property, current fad is to build concrete basement, build house above
it, then build up the lot to create a house on a hill. Only rich folks
can afford that extreme, of course, but it works- flood protection, and
nice cool breezes on the veranda.

Best way to do it, as long as you have enough land to get a reasonable
slope up to the house.
A woman I worked with was having leg problems before she retired.
Her husband was too.
She told me if I bought another house, just get the biggest ranch you
can afford.
No stairs anywhere.
Though I've always loved my basements, there's some merit to that.

--Vic

With the equipment thye have these days they very seldom tear up a
slab because of a leak. My inlaws had a slab house in NM. Had a pipe
leak. The plumber had a detector and they cut a hole about 8" by 8",
fixed the pipe, filled with concrete, and put th eflooring back down.
Done in a day.

On Wed, 22 Jun 2011 03:54:20 +0000 (UTC), (Don
Klipstein) wrote:

In , Steve Barker wrote:

I'm a wondering two things:
1. what lo life jurisdiction only requires a 12" footing?
2. What dumass would build a house without a basement? It's only a
couple thousand more than a crawl or a slab.

I am under the impression that most houses in Wildwood, NJ do not have
basements.

I think that goes for any location near the shore. All of Florida is
near the shore! Been to the Jersey shore twice this spring so far,
the whole state is sand. A few miles past the PA state line into
jersey you just start seeing sand for ground.

Makes me want to be a heavy equipment operator in NJ. It would be like
like playing in a giant sand box. Leave the rock drill and TNT at
home, just put on the biggest hack'n bucket you got and start digging.

Remove 333 to reply.
Randy

Steve Barker wrote the following:
On 6/21/2011 9:27 AM, jamesgangnc wrote:
On Jun 21, 10:21 am, Steve wrote:
On 6/20/2011 7:50 PM, EXT wrote:







"Steve wrote in message
...
On 6/20/2011 12:25 PM, willshak wrote:
The house was already constructed, but...
http://realestate.aol.com/blog/2011/06/20/real-estate-disclosure-what...main5|dl3|sec1_lnk2|71747


or:http://preview.tinyurl.com/3tjdomg

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

well, duh. they put yuppie subdivisions on top of landfills all
the time.

Yeah, cheap 12" deep foundations don't provide much support, nor
reveal
much underground information. So you could end up overlooking a lot of
potential problems. Up here in the cold north minimum depth is 4 feet,
many foundations go 5 to 7 feet deep to allow for a basement.

I'm a wondering two things:
1. what lo life jurisdiction only requires a 12" footing?
2. What dumass would build a house without a basement? It's only a
couple thousand more than a crawl or a slab.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Southern half of Florida. No frost heave. Lots of areas are not good
places to build basements. Areas with poor drainage or water close to
the surface. Like Florida. You do not find many here in NC either.
Poor drainage and lots of heavy rain. A few where the land slopes
enough that most of the basement is out of the ground anyway. Don't
make assupmtions based on your locality.

I'm not making any assumptions at all. It's just commonsense to build
a basement. regardless of soil conditions. It's all workable. AND
the IBC requires footings to be deeper than 12" regardless of location.

A basement in Florida is known as an indoor swimming pool.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

Steve Barker wrote:

....



I'm not making any assumptions at all. It's just commonsense to build a
basement. regardless of soil conditions. It's all workable....


Perhaps (perhaps not). It's certainly nonsense to claim every locale
should include one. Clearly you've not suffered through the issues in
the areas that aren't well-suited and that would require well more than
some minimal extra cost for intial consturction and high probability of
problems down the road...

"Commonsense" is to make decision based on local conditions and other
contributing factors such as budget constraints and/or occupational use
as opposed to claiming one size fits all from a keyboard...

--

willshak wrote the following:
Steve Barker wrote the following:
On 6/21/2011 9:27 AM, jamesgangnc wrote:
On Jun 21, 10:21 am, Steve wrote:
On 6/20/2011 7:50 PM, EXT wrote:







"Steve wrote in message
...
On 6/20/2011 12:25 PM, willshak wrote:
The house was already constructed, but...
http://realestate.aol.com/blog/2011/06/20/real-estate-disclosure-what...main5|dl3|sec1_lnk2|71747


or:http://preview.tinyurl.com/3tjdomg

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

well, duh. they put yuppie subdivisions on top of landfills all
the time.

Yeah, cheap 12" deep foundations don't provide much support, nor
reveal
much underground information. So you could end up overlooking a
lot of
potential problems. Up here in the cold north minimum depth is 4
feet,
many foundations go 5 to 7 feet deep to allow for a basement.

I'm a wondering two things:
1. what lo life jurisdiction only requires a 12" footing?
2. What dumass would build a house without a basement? It's only a
couple thousand more than a crawl or a slab.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Southern half of Florida. No frost heave. Lots of areas are not good
places to build basements. Areas with poor drainage or water close to
the surface. Like Florida. You do not find many here in NC either.
Poor drainage and lots of heavy rain. A few where the land slopes
enough that most of the basement is out of the ground anyway. Don't
make assupmtions based on your locality.

I'm not making any assumptions at all. It's just commonsense to
build a basement. regardless of soil conditions. It's all workable.
AND the IBC requires footings to be deeper than 12" regardless of
location.

A basement in Florida is known as an indoor swimming pool.

BTW. The IBC says:
Footnote "a" of Table 1805.4.2 refers to Section 1805.2 for footing
depth, which specifies a minimum footing depth of 12 inches or the depth
of the frost line, whichever is deeper. There are exceptions for
Occupancy Category I buildings or buildings sited on solid bedrock.


There is no frost line set for Florida since the average frost depth is
6 inches or less.


--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

Vic Smith wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jun 2011 21:50:12 GMT, Red Green
wrote:



Although I know virtually nothing about FL, a thing to note is it's
highest elevation is 345ft. It's a flat state. No other state has a
lower hishest elevation. A lot has to be at or below sea level I
would think.

http://geology.com/state-high-points.shtml

Any place I've been to down there near the Atlantic or Gulf the ground
is sand and shells right under the grass.
My dad lives a bit west of Ocala, about 40 miles from the Gulf, and
there's mild hills there. Ground is still sandy with shells.
Somebody mentioned Phoenix not having basements too.
Probably a lot of solid rock.

not too much real rock. caliche instead. that requires blasting usually.

Basements are probably more cost-effective when you can dig them out
with a back hoe.
If you have to blast, maybe it's best to not have basements, and
spread out and up instead.

--Vic.

On Tue, 21 Jun 2011 09:21:18 -0500, Steve Barker
wrote:

On 6/20/2011 7:50 PM, EXT wrote:

"Steve Barker" wrote in message
...
On 6/20/2011 12:25 PM, willshak wrote:
The house was already constructed, but...
http://realestate.aol.com/blog/2011/06/20/real-estate-disclosure-what-you-dont-know-can-hurt-you/?icid=maing-grid7|main5|dl3|sec1_lnk2|71747

or: http://preview.tinyurl.com/3tjdomg

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @


well, duh. they put yuppie subdivisions on top of landfills all the time.

Yeah, cheap 12" deep foundations don't provide much support, nor reveal
much underground information. So you could end up overlooking a lot of
potential problems. Up here in the cold north minimum depth is 4 feet,
many foundations go 5 to 7 feet deep to allow for a basement.

I'm a wondering two things:
1. what lo life jurisdiction only requires a 12" footing?

With no frost, why a deep foundation?

2. What dumass would build a house without a basement? It's only a
couple thousand more than a crawl or a slab.

It's a *lot* more than a couple of thousand. An unfinished basement generally
runs about 1/3 that of finished above-ground space. ...IF a basement is even
possible.

On Tue, 21 Jun 2011 18:56:04 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Tue, 21 Jun 2011 18:54:10 -0400, aemeijers
wrote:



There is always a need for a basement. Supply lines and ducts in slabs
or crawls SUCK, as does HVAC and water lines in attic spaces.


I never paid any attention to the mechanical systems when I've been in
a slab house. I've read stories of tearing up the slab because of
leaking water supply.

Not usually a huge deal. Sewer lines can often be repaired without even
digging them up. Sure, it's not the piece of cake it is with full access to
the pipes but it's not a big disaster, either.

Seems having the water supply come through a wall should take care of
that. A sewer line going bad is bad news even with a basement.
I was surprised to see they put HVAC and water lines in attics in some
parts of the country.

With no frost, why not? My HVAC ducts for the first floor go between the
floors and in the attic for the second floor (heat pump for each).

All the slab houses I've been in have a utility room for HVAC.
HVAC ducting in the attic shouldn't be a problem.

No utility room. The air handler for the first floor is in a hall "closet"
and the second floor's is in the attic space, along with the water heater.

Down in western Louisiana, where I spend a couple weeks a year and own
property, current fad is to build concrete basement, build house above
it, then build up the lot to create a house on a hill. Only rich folks
can afford that extreme, of course, but it works- flood protection, and
nice cool breezes on the veranda.

Yes, in KY they did that, where possible. The houses built into hills like
that were about 50% more than the other houses in the same subdivision.

Best way to do it, as long as you have enough land to get a reasonable
slope up to the house.
A woman I worked with was having leg problems before she retired.
Her husband was too.
She told me if I bought another house, just get the biggest ranch you
can afford.
No stairs anywhere.

That's what my wife wanted. Our current house has a couple of bedrooms and
bathrooms upstairs and I'm building my workshop over the garage (where a
"bonus room" would be.

Though I've always loved my basements, there's some merit to that.

I really wish I had a basement but only one house (of perhaps 50) we looked at
had a basement. They are quite rare here.

On Jun 22, 11:31*pm, "
wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jun 2011 18:56:04 -0500, Vic Smith

wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jun 2011 18:54:10 -0400, aemeijers
wrote:

There is always a need for a basement. Supply lines and ducts in slabs
or crawls SUCK, as does HVAC and water lines in attic spaces.

I never paid any attention to the mechanical systems when I've been in
a slab house. *I've read stories of tearing up the slab because of
leaking water supply.

Not usually a huge deal. *Sewer lines can often be repaired without even
digging them up. *Sure, it's not the piece of cake it is with full access to
the pipes but it's not a big disaster, either.

Seems having the water supply come through a wall should take care of
that. *A sewer line going bad is bad news even with a basement.
I was surprised to see they put HVAC and water lines in attics in some
parts of the country.

With no frost, why not? *My HVAC ducts for the first floor go between the
floors and in the attic for the second floor (heat pump for each).

All the slab houses I've been in have a utility room for HVAC.
HVAC ducting in the attic shouldn't be a problem. *

No utility room. *The air handler for the first floor is in a hall "closet"
and the second floor's is in the attic space, along with the water heater..

Down in western Louisiana, where I spend a couple weeks a year and own
property, current fad is to build concrete basement, build house above
it, then build up the lot to create a house on a hill. Only rich folks
can afford that extreme, of course, but it works- flood protection, and
nice cool breezes on the veranda.

Yes, in KY they did that, where possible. *The houses built into hills like
that were about 50% more than the other houses in the same subdivision.

Best way to do it, as long as you have enough land to get a reasonable
slope up to the house.
A woman I worked with was having leg problems before she retired.
Her husband was too.
She told me if I bought another house, just get the biggest ranch you
can afford.
No stairs anywhere.

That's what my wife wanted. *Our current house has a couple of bedrooms and
bathrooms upstairs and I'm building my workshop over the garage (where a
"bonus room" would be.

Though I've always loved my basements, there's some merit to that.

I really wish I had a basement but only one house (of perhaps 50) we looked at
had a basement. *They are quite rare here.

I occasionally regret not having a basement too but then I remember
that most of the basements I have visited were full of stuff that
should have gone out in the trash :-)

On 6/22/2011 8:20 AM, willshak wrote:

A basement in Florida is known as an indoor swimming pool.


I can see that if it isn't built properly with the proper drainage and
sumps. Goes for ANY basement.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On 6/22/2011 10:16 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jun 2011 09:21:18 -0500, Steve
wrote:

On 6/20/2011 7:50 PM, EXT wrote:

"Steve wrote in message
...
On 6/20/2011 12:25 PM, willshak wrote:
The house was already constructed, but...
http://realestate.aol.com/blog/2011/06/20/real-estate-disclosure-what-you-dont-know-can-hurt-you/?icid=maing-grid7|main5|dl3|sec1_lnk2|71747

or: http://preview.tinyurl.com/3tjdomg

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @


well, duh. they put yuppie subdivisions on top of landfills all the time.

Yeah, cheap 12" deep foundations don't provide much support, nor reveal
much underground information. So you could end up overlooking a lot of
potential problems. Up here in the cold north minimum depth is 4 feet,
many foundations go 5 to 7 feet deep to allow for a basement.

I'm a wondering two things:
1. what lo life jurisdiction only requires a 12" footing?

With no frost, why a deep foundation?

2. What dumass would build a house without a basement? It's only a
couple thousand more than a crawl or a slab.

It's a *lot* more than a couple of thousand. An unfinished basement generally
runs about 1/3 that of finished above-ground space. ...IF a basement is even
possible.

In the area _I_ live in it's not much more to make 9' walls as opposed
to 4' walls. I guess it makes a difference where you are as has been
pointed out. 4' walls are a minimum here for below the frost line
footings and a reasonable crawl space. Going another 5' is just a
matter of a couple hours digging and a few more yards of concrete, and a
floor.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On 6/23/2011 4:36 PM, Steve Barker wrote:
On 6/22/2011 8:20 AM, willshak wrote:

A basement in Florida is known as an indoor swimming pool.


I can see that if it isn't built properly with the proper drainage and
sumps. Goes for ANY basement.


Well, I'll admit there are some areas where a basement isn't practical.
But then again, most of those places are not an area where I'd care to
build a house anyway.

And plenty of people build houses in areas where NO houses should be
allowed, absent a signed and recorded waiver of EVER getting public
assistance when (not if) mother nature destroys them. Sandbar islands,
the sides of mountains, bottom land less than 3 feet above the mean
water level of the river or ocean a half mile away, or actually below
sea level, etc. (I think it is criminally stupid that they are
rebuilding the low-lying parts of New Orleans. It WILL flood again.
Spend the money to buy them out, and build a New Ninth Ward on the high
side of the lake, and set up a cheap shuttle bus service so they can get
to their jobs.)

--
aem sends...

On Thu, 23 Jun 2011 05:56:24 -0700 (PDT), jamesgangnc
wrote:

On Jun 22, 11:31*pm, "
wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jun 2011 18:56:04 -0500, Vic Smith

wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jun 2011 18:54:10 -0400, aemeijers
wrote:

There is always a need for a basement. Supply lines and ducts in slabs
or crawls SUCK, as does HVAC and water lines in attic spaces.

I never paid any attention to the mechanical systems when I've been in
a slab house. *I've read stories of tearing up the slab because of
leaking water supply.

Not usually a huge deal. *Sewer lines can often be repaired without even
digging them up. *Sure, it's not the piece of cake it is with full access to
the pipes but it's not a big disaster, either.

Seems having the water supply come through a wall should take care of
that. *A sewer line going bad is bad news even with a basement.
I was surprised to see they put HVAC and water lines in attics in some
parts of the country.

With no frost, why not? *My HVAC ducts for the first floor go between the
floors and in the attic for the second floor (heat pump for each).

All the slab houses I've been in have a utility room for HVAC.
HVAC ducting in the attic shouldn't be a problem. *

No utility room. *The air handler for the first floor is in a hall "closet"
and the second floor's is in the attic space, along with the water heater.

Down in western Louisiana, where I spend a couple weeks a year and own
property, current fad is to build concrete basement, build house above
it, then build up the lot to create a house on a hill. Only rich folks
can afford that extreme, of course, but it works- flood protection, and
nice cool breezes on the veranda.

Yes, in KY they did that, where possible. *The houses built into hills like
that were about 50% more than the other houses in the same subdivision.

Best way to do it, as long as you have enough land to get a reasonable
slope up to the house.
A woman I worked with was having leg problems before she retired.
Her husband was too.
She told me if I bought another house, just get the biggest ranch you
can afford.
No stairs anywhere.

That's what my wife wanted. *Our current house has a couple of bedrooms and
bathrooms upstairs and I'm building my workshop over the garage (where a
"bonus room" would be.

Though I've always loved my basements, there's some merit to that.

I really wish I had a basement but only one house (of perhaps 50) we looked at
had a basement. *They are quite rare here.

I occasionally regret not having a basement too but then I remember
that most of the basements I have visited were full of stuff that
should have gone out in the trash :-)

After a few interstate moves, we've learned not to be pack-rats. ;-) I'll
cost me a fortune to move my tools next time, though.

On Thu, 23 Jun 2011 15:41:19 -0500, Steve Barker
wrote:

On 6/22/2011 10:16 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jun 2011 09:21:18 -0500, Steve
wrote:

On 6/20/2011 7:50 PM, EXT wrote:

"Steve wrote in message
...
On 6/20/2011 12:25 PM, willshak wrote:
The house was already constructed, but...
http://realestate.aol.com/blog/2011/06/20/real-estate-disclosure-what-you-dont-know-can-hurt-you/?icid=maing-grid7|main5|dl3|sec1_lnk2|71747

or: http://preview.tinyurl.com/3tjdomg

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @


well, duh. they put yuppie subdivisions on top of landfills all the time.

Yeah, cheap 12" deep foundations don't provide much support, nor reveal
much underground information. So you could end up overlooking a lot of
potential problems. Up here in the cold north minimum depth is 4 feet,
many foundations go 5 to 7 feet deep to allow for a basement.

I'm a wondering two things:
1. what lo life jurisdiction only requires a 12" footing?

With no frost, why a deep foundation?

2. What dumass would build a house without a basement? It's only a
couple thousand more than a crawl or a slab.

It's a *lot* more than a couple of thousand. An unfinished basement generally
runs about 1/3 that of finished above-ground space. ...IF a basement is even
possible.

In the area _I_ live in it's not much more to make 9' walls as opposed
to 4' walls. I guess it makes a difference where you are as has been
pointed out. 4' walls are a minimum here for below the frost line
footings and a reasonable crawl space. Going another 5' is just a
matter of a couple hours digging and a few more yards of concrete, and a
floor.

Sure. My last house was in Vermont, where the frost went down 7-8' some
years. As long as you're down there anyhow a basement is cheap. If the frost
only goes down 6" in a bad year, as where I live now, not so much. There is
good reason they don't do basements in Alabama.

aemeijers wrote:

And plenty of people build houses in areas where NO houses should be
allowed, absent a signed and recorded waiver of EVER getting public
assistance when (not if) mother nature destroys them. Sandbar islands,
the sides of mountains, bottom land less than 3 feet above the mean
water level of the river or ocean a half mile away, or actually below
sea level, etc. (I think it is criminally stupid that they are
rebuilding the low-lying parts of New Orleans. It WILL flood again.
Spend the money to buy them out, and build a New Ninth Ward on the
high side of the lake, and set up a cheap shuttle bus service so they
can get to their jobs.)

What jobs?