"The Daring Dufas" wrote in message ...


I'm not a participant in The Birther movement but darn, there is a lot of
noise and controversy out there about BeeHO's birth certificate.
He's not so old that there would be a record keeping problem due to
inadequate technology. Heck I'm much older and my birth certificate is
instantly available here in our backward little country of Alabamastan.
I don't think Hawaii is a third world stone age country so there must be
modern record keeping system in place for public documents? Every
modern day American President has a birth certificate that has been
seen by the public except for Obama. Can someone explain why? What's
the problem? It should be a non-issue, just produce the darn thing and
shut all the critics up. The Birthers will slink away unless it is proved
to be a fake, then all the crap will start all over again. I
don't understand, what are The Democrats so afraid of?

No offense, but this is hogwash. He did produce a birth certificate, and
though some birthers tried to claim it was fake even World Net Daily
admitted it was authentic (and then tried to backtrack). Hell, even Michele
Bachmann eventually admitted Obama's birth is a settled matter and Ann
Coulter calls birthers "cranks". The then Republican Governor of Hawaii
vouched for the document, so did the director of the state's dept. of
health, repeatedly--he also confirmed that the state still has Obama's
original birth records on file. There is no "long form"--Hawaii doesn't
issue such a document, the certificate of birth they issued to the Obama
campaign is the only such document they provide to anyone and it's accepted
by U.S. State Dept. to issue a passport. Two Honolulu newspapers published
his birth announcement and the former managing editor of one said those
announcements came straight from the dept. of health so the desperate claim
that Obama's grandparents sent in fake birth announcements for some unknown
reason doesn't fly, not that clowns like Donald Trump let that sort of thing
stop them.

It requires an act of will to go on pretending that Obama hasn't produced a
birth certificate or there is any valid reason to question that he was born
on U.S. soil, and yet millions of people manage to do so including
apparently two-thirds of Republicans. You'd really have to make a serious
effort at self-delusion to go on believing that Obama hasn't provided a
birth certificate in the face of overwhelming evidence that he has done
exactly that and did it several years ago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ba...irthHawaii.jpg
http://blogs.starbulletin.com/inpolitics/certified/
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42519951...more_politics/
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2009/07/3...er-claims.html
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2...n_the_usa.html
http://www.pulitzer.org/archives/8406
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...h-certificate/

DGDevin wrote:

No offense, but this is hogwash. He did produce a birth certificate,
and though some birthers tried to claim it was fake even World Net
Daily admitted it was authentic (and then tried to backtrack). Hell,
even Michele Bachmann eventually admitted Obama's birth is a settled
matter and Ann Coulter calls birthers "cranks".

He did not produce the hospital/doctor's record. What he produced is the
equivalent of a diploma with no transcript.

Personally, I don't CARE whether he was born in the U.S. or a miraculously
created being that launched full-blown from the head of Zeus to save the
world. What I DO find troublesome is his taking the Fifth on other documents
that some deem pertinent.

On Apr 27, 1:19*am, "DGDevin" wrote:
"The Daring Dufas" *wrote in ...

I'm not a participant in The Birther movement but darn, there is a lot of
noise and controversy out there about BeeHO's birth certificate.
He's not so old that there would be a record keeping problem due to
inadequate technology. Heck I'm much older and my birth certificate is
instantly available here in our backward little country of Alabamastan.
I don't think Hawaii is a third world stone age country so there must be
modern record keeping system in place for public documents? Every
modern day American President has a birth certificate that has been
seen by the public except for Obama. Can someone explain why? What's
the problem? It should be a non-issue, just produce the darn thing and
shut all the critics up. The Birthers will slink away unless it is proved
to be a fake, then all the crap will start all over again. I
don't understand, what are The Democrats so afraid of?

No offense, but this is hogwash. *He did produce a birth certificate, and
though some birthers tried to claim it was fake even World Net Daily
admitted it was authentic (and then tried to backtrack). *Hell, even Michele
Bachmann eventually admitted Obama's birth is a settled matter and Ann
Coulter calls birthers "cranks". *The then Republican Governor of Hawaii
vouched for the document, so did the director of the state's dept. of
health, repeatedly--he also confirmed that the state still has Obama's
original birth records on file. *There is no "long form"--Hawaii doesn't
issue such a document, the certificate of birth they issued to the Obama
campaign is the only such document they provide to anyone

Turns out that one part is NOT true. It is possible for anyone to
obtain a copy of their orignal birth certificate provided they
request it.
It is on file with the state and if Obama chose to, he could obtain
a copy. That he refuses to do so, IMO, is the only thing keeping
this alive. People like Trump believe he's hiding something that's
on that long from that is not shown on the short form. Having seen
what's on one versus the other though, there doesn't appear to
be anything that could be potentially embarrasing, ie no spot for
religion, etc.






and it's accepted
by U.S. State Dept. to issue a passport. *Two Honol*-ulu newspapers published
his birth announcement and the former managing editor of one said those
announcements came straight from the dept. of health so the desperate claim
that Obama's grandparents sent in fake birth announcements for some unknown
reason doesn't fly, not that clowns like Donald Trump let that sort of thing
stop them.

It requires an act of will to go on pretending that Obama hasn't produced a
birth certificate or there is any valid reason to question that he was born
on U.S. soil, and yet millions of people manage to do so including
apparently two-thirds of Republicans. *You'd really have to make a serious
effort at self-delusion to go on believing that Obama hasn't provided a
birth certificate in the face of overwhelming evidence that he has done
exactly that and did it several years ago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ba...r/08/politifac...

"HeyBub" wrote in message
m...

No offense, but this is hogwash. He did produce a birth certificate,
and though some birthers tried to claim it was fake even World Net
Daily admitted it was authentic (and then tried to backtrack). Hell,
even Michele Bachmann eventually admitted Obama's birth is a settled
matter and Ann Coulter calls birthers "cranks".

He did not produce the hospital/doctor's record.

He didn't have to, he produced the one and only legal document his state
issues to prove birth, a document accepted by any court and by the State
Department to prove citizenship. That should have been the end of it for
anyone with a rational mind.

If a cop pulls you over and asks for your license and proof of insurance do
you also need to show him a copy of your last license test results and the
cancelled check you used to pay for your insurance? And yet you figure
Obama should have to produce documentation far beyond what is required to
prove his place of birth not because there is any legal requirement for him
to do so, but just because a collection of wingnuts and political thugs
demand it.

What he produced is the equivalent of a diploma with no transcript.

He didn't submit a DNA sample either, and that's just as irrelevant to
proving his place of birth as hospital records. He produced the only
official birth certificate his state issues, the same document they provide
to anyone born there, that should have been the end of it. Sadly American
politics has become a grotesque reality show in which the nutcases hold
center stage.

Personally, I don't CARE whether he was born in the U.S. or a miraculously
created being that launched full-blown from the head of Zeus to save the
world.

Why don't I believe you? The very fact that you talk about Obama's failure
to produce hospital records blah blah demonstrates that you do care.

What I DO find troublesome is his taking the Fifth on other documents that
some deem pertinent.

Some still won't be satisfied if Obama releases every scrap of paper on the
planet relating to his life. This is in the same category as that whacko
who wrote a book claiming the Bush family erased the records of Bush 43
being busted for cocaine--it's political assassination for fun and profit by
any means necessary.

There is no level of documentation that would satisfy the birther mentality.
The ghost of Ronald Reagan could fly out of a cloud and in front of the
Washington Monument announce in a booming voice that Obama was a legitimate
candidate and was legally and properly elected President--guys like you
would still be whining about why Obama's records from playschool haven't
been released.

This is a witch hunt, it is that simple.

wrote in message
...

There is no "long form"--Hawaii doesn't
issue such a document, the certificate of birth they issued to the Obama
campaign is the only such document they provide to anyone

Turns out that one part is NOT true. It is possible for anyone to
obtain a copy of their orignal birth certificate provided they
request it.

Wrong, the state of Hawaii has repeatedly made it clear they do not issue a
"long form" birth certificate and the one they issued to Obama several years
ago is the only kind they provide to anyone. That Obama has gone to
extraordinary lengths to get ahold of a document the state does not normally
release does not change that reality. The previous (Republican) Governor of
Hawaii vouched for Obama's birth certificate, and the current (Democratic)
Governor said he would work to release additional documents if the President
requested that, I assume that is how this came about.

It is on file with the state and if Obama chose to, he could obtain
a copy. That he refuses to do so, IMO, is the only thing keeping
this alive.

What's keeping it alive is hyper-partisan insanity. Already claims that the
document the White House has posted is a fake have appeared; expect plenty
more of that.

People like Trump believe he's hiding something that's
on that long from that is not shown on the short form.

Trump is a self-serving publicity hound, his goal is to get his face on TV
as much as possible and if somehow the polls are in his favor he might even
run for office instead of just threatening to do so. But what he believes
has nothing to do with it, he'll lie through his teeth if it serves his
interests, he's proven that.

Having seen
what's on one versus the other though, there doesn't appear to
be anything that could be potentially embarrasing, ie no spot for
religion, etc.

There is *no* document or collection of documents that will satisfy the
birthers because this isn't about the truth, this is about them being driven
nuts by Obama being President.

In article ,
"DGDevin" wrote:

"
candidate and was legally and properly elected President--guys like you
would still be whining about why Obama's records from playschool haven't
been released.

Well we do have to know if he can play well with others. (g).

--
"Even I realized that money was to politicians what the ecalyptus tree is to koala bears: food, water, shelter and something to crap on."
---PJ O'Rourke

On Apr 27, 3:35*pm, "DGDevin" wrote:
wrote in ...

There is no "long form"--Hawaii doesn't
issue such a document, the certificate of birth they issued to the Obama
campaign is the only such document they provide to anyone
Turns out that one part is NOT true. *It is possible for anyone to
obtain a copy of their orignal birth certificate provided they
request it.

Wrong, the state of Hawaii has repeatedly made it clear they do not issue a
"long form" birth certificate and the one they issued to Obama several years
ago is the only kind they provide to anyone.


Well, there you have it folks. According to DGDevin the document
Obama just suppled must be a fake because Hawaii can provide
no such thing. And he wonders why people keep asking questions?


*That Obama has gone to
extraordinary lengths to get ahold of a document the state does not normally
release does not change that reality.

The "extraordinary lengths" consisted of simply asking for it with a
Freedom of Information request.

"Kurt Ullman" wrote in message
m...
In article ,
"DGDevin" wrote:

"
candidate and was legally and properly elected President--guys like you
would still be whining about why Obama's records from playschool haven't
been released.

Well we do have to know if he can play well with others. (g).

We already know that. What worries me? Perhaps that's ALL he can do. His
main goal in life seems to be as an arbitrator, trying to get everyone to
"come to Jesus." If I had to guess, I'd say most people elected him to end
the endless wars we're in - at least the independent crossover voters.
Maybe he'll get that done before the 2012 election, but it shouldn't have
taken 4 years. Nor should we just decide to jump into new conflicts like
Libya without even knowing who the rebels represent.

The evening news should use floating tags above each Predator or cruise
missile with their equivalent value in jobs or money. The modern, hi-tech
Army has reduced the number of lives lost on our side tremendously. But
that's come at a cost: missiles, smart bombs and hi-tech ammo cost lots of
money. I don't think people watching the evening news have any idea how
much tax revenue it takes to run that war day-by-day.

The problem is that most people *don't* want to cut back on DoD - they like
the idea of strong military but they don't want to pay for it. Same with
entitlements.

I see Trump has moved up from dead last real fast. I suspect he's going to
actually declare. It's too much to expect an ego his size not dive in.
What that means, I can't say.

--
Bobby G.

In article ,
"Robert Green" wrote:


We already know that. What worries me? Perhaps that's ALL he can do. His
main goal in life seems to be as an arbitrator, trying to get everyone to
"come to Jesus." If I had to guess, I'd say most people elected him to end
the endless wars we're in - at least the independent crossover voters.
Maybe he'll get that done before the 2012 election, but it shouldn't have
taken 4 years. Nor should we just decide to jump into new conflicts like
Libya without even knowing who the rebels represent.
Well there is precedent. RMN got re-elected based on serial peace
plans that never quite worked out. (grin)


I see Trump has moved up from dead last real fast. I suspect he's going to
actually declare. It's too much to expect an ego his size not dive in.
What that means, I can't say.

Diving in just means he has a large ego. Winning is when I would get
concerned.

--
"Even I realized that money was to politicians what the ecalyptus tree is to koala bears: food, water, shelter and something to crap on."
---PJ O'Rourke

On Apr 28, 3:40*am, "Robert Green" wrote:
"Kurt Ullman" wrote in message

m...

In article ,
*"DGDevin" wrote:

"
candidate and was legally and properly elected President--guys like you
would still be whining about why Obama's records from playschool haven't
been released.

* * *Well we do have to know if he can play well with others. (g)..

We already know that. *What worries me? *Perhaps that's ALL he can do.. *His
main goal in life seems to be as an arbitrator, trying to get everyone to
"come to Jesus." *If I had to guess, I'd say most people elected him to end
the endless wars we're in - at least the independent crossover voters.
Maybe he'll get that done before the 2012 election, but it shouldn't have
taken 4 years. *Nor should we just decide to jump into new conflicts like
Libya without even knowing who the rebels represent.

The evening news should use floating tags above each Predator or cruise
missile with their equivalent value in jobs or money.

I'm OK with that, as long as they spend the same amount of
time showing images of 911 and similar terrorist attacks that
those strikes are helping prevent.


*The modern, hi-tech
Army has reduced the number of lives lost on our side tremendously. *But
that's come at a cost: *missiles, smart bombs and hi-tech ammo cost lots of
money. *I don't think people watching the evening news have any idea how
much tax revenue it takes to run that war day-by-day.

Nor do they have any idea how much money is going into welfare
state spending. I can find the part of the Constitution that says the
federal govt is in charge of our defense. I'm still looking for the
part where it authorizes mandatory health insurance.


The problem is that most people *don't* want to cut back on DoD - they like
the idea of strong military but they don't want to pay for it. *Same with
entitlements.

I see Trump has moved up from dead last real fast. *I suspect he's going to
actually declare. *It's too much to expect an ego his size not dive in.
What that means, I can't say.


I suspect Trump is just playing you for attention. He knows how his
life would change forever if he were elected president and he could
not put up with it for a week. Then we have the issue of him having
to disclose all his financial records, all the scrutiny that will
bring. I
can just imagine him getting hammered on his multiple companies
that went bankrupt. And I can just imagine him giving up control
of his empire to someone else while he's in office.

He isn't serious about running for president,
that I'm fairly confident about. If he was, it would be very strange
to be going around making bombastic, foolish statements, like
saying he would take Libya's oil. How far he intends to take his
little game is another story.

On Thu, 28 Apr 2011 08:54:39 -0400, Kurt Ullman wrote:

In article ,
"Robert Green" wrote:


We already know that. What worries me? Perhaps that's ALL he can do. His
main goal in life seems to be as an arbitrator, trying to get everyone to
"come to Jesus." If I had to guess, I'd say most people elected him to end
the endless wars we're in - at least the independent crossover voters.
Maybe he'll get that done before the 2012 election, but it shouldn't have
taken 4 years. Nor should we just decide to jump into new conflicts like
Libya without even knowing who the rebels represent.
Well there is precedent. RMN got re-elected based on serial peace
plans that never quite worked out. (grin)

You mean we never really left Vietnam? How did I miss that one?

I see Trump has moved up from dead last real fast. I suspect he's going to
actually declare. It's too much to expect an ego his size not dive in.
What that means, I can't say.

Diving in just means he has a large ego. Winning is when I would get
concerned.

I'm concerned with is *running*. We need that loon like another Obummer.

In article ,
" wrote:

On Thu, 28 Apr 2011 08:54:39 -0400, Kurt Ullman wrote:

In article ,
"Robert Green" wrote:


We already know that. What worries me? Perhaps that's ALL he can do. His
main goal in life seems to be as an arbitrator, trying to get everyone to
"come to Jesus." If I had to guess, I'd say most people elected him to end
the endless wars we're in - at least the independent crossover voters.
Maybe he'll get that done before the 2012 election, but it shouldn't have
taken 4 years. Nor should we just decide to jump into new conflicts like
Libya without even knowing who the rebels represent.
Well there is precedent. RMN got re-elected based on serial peace
plans that never quite worked out. (grin)

You mean we never really left Vietnam? How did I miss that one?
He got elected in '68, in part because of this Secret Plan for peace
in VN, which stayed secret through the '72 campaign.


Diving in just means he has a large ego. Winning is when I would get
concerned.

I'm concerned with is *running*. We need that loon like another Obummer.
I am not concerned about running. He can run in the primaries all he
wants. As I mentioned it when he starts winning that I will get
concerned.

--
"Even I realized that money was to politicians what the ecalyptus tree is to koala bears: food, water, shelter and something to crap on."
---PJ O'Rourke

On Thu, 28 Apr 2011 20:53:51 -0400, Kurt Ullman wrote:

In article ,
" wrote:

On Thu, 28 Apr 2011 08:54:39 -0400, Kurt Ullman wrote:

In article ,
"Robert Green" wrote:


We already know that. What worries me? Perhaps that's ALL he can do. His
main goal in life seems to be as an arbitrator, trying to get everyone to
"come to Jesus." If I had to guess, I'd say most people elected him to end
the endless wars we're in - at least the independent crossover voters.
Maybe he'll get that done before the 2012 election, but it shouldn't have
taken 4 years. Nor should we just decide to jump into new conflicts like
Libya without even knowing who the rebels represent.
Well there is precedent. RMN got re-elected based on serial peace
plans that never quite worked out. (grin)

You mean we never really left Vietnam? How did I miss that one?
He got elected in '68, in part because of this Secret Plan for peace
in VN, which stayed secret through the '72 campaign.

Wake up! It's 2011!

Diving in just means he has a large ego. Winning is when I would get
concerned.

I'm concerned with is *running*. We need that loon like another Obummer.
I am not concerned about running. He can run in the primaries all he
wants. As I mentioned it when he starts winning that I will get
concerned.

Good plan for Obummer's re-election.

"Kurt Ullman" wrote in message
"Robert Green" wrote:


We already know that. What worries me? Perhaps that's ALL he can do.
His
main goal in life seems to be as an arbitrator, trying to get everyone
to
"come to Jesus." If I had to guess, I'd say most people elected him to
end
the endless wars we're in - at least the independent crossover voters.
Maybe he'll get that done before the 2012 election, but it shouldn't
have
taken 4 years. Nor should we just decide to jump into new conflicts
like
Libya without even knowing who the rebels represent.

Well there is precedent. RMN got re-elected based on serial peace
plans that never quite worked out. (grin)

They were so flakey that you must mean "cereal" peace plans. (-: Still,
they did do the trick for old Dick.

I see Trump has moved up from dead last real fast. I suspect he's going
to
actually declare. It's too much to expect an ego his size not dive in.
What that means, I can't say.

Diving in just means he has a large ego. Winning is when I would get
concerned.

He's got the same oversized ego that Nader and Perot possessed. Moving up
from 18th of out 18 to number one in some recent polls is frightening. I
would never underestimate the power of all the exposure and name recognition
he has. Nor would I underestimate the power of people telling him "You can
win!" because if he gets in, they get pork barrel jobs.

He could end up being a frontrunner just because of his "Q" ratings and his
massive ego. I don't laugh at the idea of a Palin/Trump ticket because it
would be so much like the TV show - an eager understudy learning the art of
the deal from the Donald.

He could also throw a bone to the Tea Party and take on Michele Bachmann as
VP (or she, him). Since Americans seem to come to the polls mostly to vote
AGAINST someone they don't like rather than for someone they DO like, it all
depends on how much Obama does wrong right before the election.

--
Bobby G.

On Apr 29, 1:47*pm, "Robert Green" wrote:
"Kurt Ullman" wrote in message
*"Robert Green" wrote:

We already know that. *What worries me? *Perhaps that's ALL he can do.
His
main goal in life seems to be as an arbitrator, trying to get everyone
to
"come to Jesus." *If I had to guess, I'd say most people elected him to
end
the endless wars we're in - at least the independent crossover voters..
Maybe he'll get that done before the 2012 election, but it shouldn't
have
taken 4 years. *Nor should we just decide to jump into new conflicts
like
Libya without even knowing who the rebels represent.
* *Well there is precedent. RMN got re-elected based on serial peace
plans that never quite worked out. (grin)

They were so flakey that you must mean "cereal" peace plans. *(-: *Still,
they did do the trick for old Dick.



I see Trump has moved up from dead last real fast. *I suspect he's going
to
actually declare. *It's too much to expect an ego his size not dive in.
What that means, I can't say.

* *Diving in just means he has a large ego. Winning is when I would get
concerned.

He's got the same oversized ego that Nader and Perot possessed. *Moving up
from 18th of out 18 to number one in some recent polls is frightening. *I
would never underestimate the power of all the exposure and name recognition
he has. *Nor would I underestimate the power of people telling him "You can
win!" because if he gets in, they get pork barrel jobs.

He could end up being a frontrunner just because of his "Q" ratings and his
massive ego. *I don't laugh at the idea of a Palin/Trump ticket because it
would be so much like the TV show - an eager understudy learning the art of
the deal from the Donald.

He could also throw a bone to the Tea Party and take on Michele *Bachmann as
VP (or she, him). *Since Americans seem to come to the polls mostly to vote
AGAINST someone they don't like rather than for someone they DO like, it all
depends on how much Obama does wrong right before the election.

--
Bobby G.

I can't believe the smart people on this NG are wasting electrons on a
clown like Trump, when there are important things to think about.
You're allowing the ****ing pop media to frame the debate for you.
How about thinking for yourself once in a while? Identify real
problems and address them. (steps off podium)

HB

HB

I thought the phony Obama birth certificate was a bit of a
distraction, for a couple seconds. I'm glad you don't stand
on the lecturn!

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Higgs Boson"
wrote in message
...

I can't believe the smart people on this NG are wasting
electrons on a
clown like Trump, when there are important things to think
about.
You're allowing the ****ing pop media to frame the debate
for you.
How about thinking for yourself once in a while? Identify
real
problems and address them. (steps off podium)

HB

HB