[mike]

My original posting appears to have been too
general. Let me tighten the parameters.

I have a 2008 model Kenmore refrigerator with top
freezer.

I have no experience with these newfangled high-deficiency
R134a units.

If I were to attach an ACCURATE digital thermocouple meter to the
pipe exiting the compressor heading for the condenser,
about two inches from the compressor and let the system
run for ten minutes at an ambient temperature of 60F,

Here's the QUESTION:
What temperature should I measure?????
End of SINGLE question.

A single number satisfies the question, but additional
context relevant to system operating temperatures in
old vs new technology would be helpful.

Yes, I have more questions, but I'm hoping I can get
at least one answered to help determine if my fridge is going south.
Thanks, mike

[Smitty Two]

In article ,
mike wrote:

My original posting appears to have been too
general. Let me tighten the parameters.

I have a 2008 model Kenmore refrigerator with top
freezer.

I have no experience with these newfangled high-deficiency
R134a units.

If I were to attach an ACCURATE digital thermocouple meter to the
pipe exiting the compressor heading for the condenser,
about two inches from the compressor and let the system
run for ten minutes at an ambient temperature of 60F,

Here's the QUESTION:
What temperature should I measure?????
End of SINGLE question.

A single number satisfies the question, but additional
context relevant to system operating temperatures in
old vs new technology would be helpful.

Yes, I have more questions, but I'm hoping I can get
at least one answered to help determine if my fridge is going south.
Thanks, mike

Can't answer your question. But I do know something about thermocouples.
Those designed to measure air, and surfaces, and liquids, are different.
Hope you have/use the correct probe for your application.

[Ralph Mowery]

"Smitty Two" wrote in message
news
In article ,
mike wrote:

Can't answer your question. But I do know something about thermocouples.
Those designed to measure air, and surfaces, and liquids, are different.
Hope you have/use the correct probe for your application.

They are not really that different. They are just made out of two different
kinds of wire/materials and are joined together at the very end of the
probe. The only difference is in the mechanical makeup of the probe. The
very tip where the wires are joined together is the only point that is being
measured.

At work we use hundreds of them, maybe thousands. They are used in air,
nitrogen, direct contact and in other materials. The same ones are used in
all applications that are within the range of the J type or K type. We use
them from about -20 deg C to + 500 deg C.

You can even just take the connecting wire and twist it together and get a
close measurement where they are shorted together. The wire is usually made
out of the same material as in the thermocouple.

[Smitty Two]

In article ,
"Ralph Mowery" wrote:

"Smitty Two" wrote in message
news
In article ,
mike wrote:

Can't answer your question. But I do know something about thermocouples.
Those designed to measure air, and surfaces, and liquids, are different.
Hope you have/use the correct probe for your application.

They are not really that different. They are just made out of two different
kinds of wire/materials and are joined together at the very end of the
probe. The only difference is in the mechanical makeup of the probe. The
very tip where the wires are joined together is the only point that is being
measured.

At work we use hundreds of them, maybe thousands. They are used in air,
nitrogen, direct contact and in other materials. The same ones are used in
all applications that are within the range of the J type or K type. We use
them from about -20 deg C to + 500 deg C.

You can even just take the connecting wire and twist it together and get a
close measurement where they are shorted together. The wire is usually made
out of the same material as in the thermocouple.

The difference in probes for different applications isn't in the
junction, as you note. It's in the way the construction of the probe
ensures the best possible sensing of the test article. A standard liquid
probe taped to a surface will sense 1/2 surface and 1/2 ambient temp.
Not exactly conducive to accuracy.

[mike]

Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,
"Ralph Mowery" wrote:

"Smitty Two" wrote in message
news
In article ,
mike wrote:

Can't answer your question. But I do know something about thermocouples.
Those designed to measure air, and surfaces, and liquids, are different.
Hope you have/use the correct probe for your application.
They are not really that different. They are just made out of two different
kinds of wire/materials and are joined together at the very end of the
probe. The only difference is in the mechanical makeup of the probe. The
very tip where the wires are joined together is the only point that is being
measured.

At work we use hundreds of them, maybe thousands. They are used in air,
nitrogen, direct contact and in other materials. The same ones are used in
all applications that are within the range of the J type or K type. We use
them from about -20 deg C to + 500 deg C.

You can even just take the connecting wire and twist it together and get a
close measurement where they are shorted together. The wire is usually made
out of the same material as in the thermocouple.

The difference in probes for different applications isn't in the
junction, as you note. It's in the way the construction of the probe
ensures the best possible sensing of the test article. A standard liquid
probe taped to a surface will sense 1/2 surface and 1/2 ambient temp.
Not exactly conducive to accuracy.

Great!
Now we have a ****ing contest about how temperature probes work.
The distinction is irrelevant to MY objective.
I need a number, not a lesson on how to measure it.
But do continue ****ing on each other.
I give up!!!

[Stormin Mormon]

I work on refrigerated equipment. And, I've checked that
temperature using infared non contact thermometer. I'd
expect to see between 130 and 170F. Depends on a lot of
things. A warm fridge, just plugged in, could be discharging
closer to 200F.

Of course, several other questions came to mind. But, that's
a start.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"mike" wrote in message
...
My original posting appears to have been too
general. Let me tighten the parameters.

I have a 2008 model Kenmore refrigerator with top
freezer.

I have no experience with these newfangled high-deficiency
R134a units.

If I were to attach an ACCURATE digital thermocouple meter
to the
pipe exiting the compressor heading for the condenser,
about two inches from the compressor and let the system
run for ten minutes at an ambient temperature of 60F,

Here's the QUESTION:
What temperature should I measure?????
End of SINGLE question.

A single number satisfies the question, but additional
context relevant to system operating temperatures in
old vs new technology would be helpful.

Yes, I have more questions, but I'm hoping I can get
at least one answered to help determine if my fridge is
going south.
Thanks, mike

[Stormin Mormon]

Yesterday, I worked on a stand alone freezer. The discharge
line was reading about 100F or so when I arrived. I added
some refrigerant, and the discharge line went up to 160 or
so. It was unusual situation, not totally the same as what
you have.

If you'd like to provide a bit more information, that would
be helpful. What is your fridge doing, that causes you to
investigate it?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"mike"
wrote in message
...

Great!
Now we have a ****ing contest about how temperature probes
work.
The distinction is irrelevant to MY objective.
I need a number, not a lesson on how to measure it.
But do continue ****ing on each other.
I give up!!!

[HeyBub[_3_]]

mike wrote:
My original posting appears to have been too
general. Let me tighten the parameters.

I have a 2008 model Kenmore refrigerator with top
freezer.

I have no experience with these newfangled high-deficiency
R134a units.

If I were to attach an ACCURATE digital thermocouple meter to the
pipe exiting the compressor heading for the condenser,
about two inches from the compressor and let the system
run for ten minutes at an ambient temperature of 60F,

Here's the QUESTION:
What temperature should I measure?????
End of SINGLE question.

A single number satisfies the question, but additional
context relevant to system operating temperatures in
old vs new technology would be helpful.

Yes, I have more questions, but I'm hoping I can get
at least one answered to help determine if my fridge is going south.
Thanks, mike

At two inches from the compressor I think (but do not know) that the
temperature won't be as cold as it is at the evaporator.

I would imagine that the only temperature that counts is the one inside the
box.

[Tony Miklos[_2_]]

On 3/1/2011 6:42 AM, mike wrote:
Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,
"Ralph Mowery" wrote:

"Smitty Two" wrote in message
news In article ,
mike wrote:

Can't answer your question. But I do know something about
thermocouples.
Those designed to measure air, and surfaces, and liquids, are
different.
Hope you have/use the correct probe for your application.
They are not really that different. They are just made out of two
different kinds of wire/materials and are joined together at the very
end of the probe. The only difference is in the mechanical makeup of
the probe. The very tip where the wires are joined together is the
only point that is being measured.

At work we use hundreds of them, maybe thousands. They are used in
air, nitrogen, direct contact and in other materials. The same ones
are used in all applications that are within the range of the J type
or K type. We use them from about -20 deg C to + 500 deg C.

You can even just take the connecting wire and twist it together and
get a close measurement where they are shorted together. The wire is
usually made out of the same material as in the thermocouple.

The difference in probes for different applications isn't in the
junction, as you note. It's in the way the construction of the probe
ensures the best possible sensing of the test article. A standard
liquid probe taped to a surface will sense 1/2 surface and 1/2 ambient
temp. Not exactly conducive to accuracy.

Great!
Now we have a ****ing contest about how temperature probes work.
The distinction is irrelevant to MY objective.
I need a number, not a lesson on how to measure it.
But do continue ****ing on each other.
I give up!!!

Actually what you have written shows that you do indeed need a lesson on
how to measure temperature.

[Ralph Mowery]

"HeyBub" wrote in message
m...
Yes, I have more questions, but I'm hoping I can get
at least one answered to help determine if my fridge is going south.
Thanks, mike

At two inches from the compressor I think (but do not know) that the
temperature won't be as cold as it is at the evaporator.

I would imagine that the only temperature that counts is the one inside
the box.


There are 4 places that the temperature matters on the lines.

But it is correct that the real test is inside the box.

[Smitty Two]

In article ,
mike wrote:



Great!
Now we have a ****ing contest about how temperature probes work.
The distinction is irrelevant to MY objective.
I need a number, not a lesson on how to measure it.
But do continue ****ing on each other.
I give up!!!

You're the guy who wanted to measure **** with a thermocouple, I'm just
telling you that a ****ing decimal point on a digital readout isn't any
guarantee whatsoever that the number is accurate enough to be of any
use. It's a tool and like any tool it can do you more harm than good if
you don't know how to use it. Sort of like the "get a VOM" advice to
people who don't know an electron from a lentil and think a volt is a
car.

[mike]

Ralph Mowery wrote:
"HeyBub" wrote in message
m...
Yes, I have more questions, but I'm hoping I can get
at least one answered to help determine if my fridge is going south.
Thanks, mike
At two inches from the compressor I think (but do not know) that the
temperature won't be as cold as it is at the evaporator.

Two inches from the output of the compressor should be the
HOTTEST point in the system.
Mine is 87F with 60F ambient.
You'd know that if people wouldn't keep snipping all my input
and replacing it with, "I know but I ain't tellin'" and "You're
too stupid to measure temperature".
Seems cool to me, hence the question about R134a systems.

I would imagine that the only temperature that counts is the one inside
the box.

More replies but still little useful info.
The freezer was hot 23F.
Turning down the thermostat made it more cold 0F.
SOMETHING CHANGED over a short time, a few days till I noticed
the ice cream was soft!
SYMPTOMS SEEM INCONGRUENT.
If the compressor cycles, not running continuously, shouldn't the thermostat
have kept the (average) inside temperature constant independent of any
thermodynamic changes in the refrigeration cycle?
The symptom should have been longer run times. Why did temperature
change significantly without significant change in run time?
Can I learn anything about impending system failure from temperatures
at various places in the refrigeration cycle?
In particular, I'd expected the hottest part of the system to be hotter.
I'D RATHER NOT WAIT UNTIL IT'S COMPLETELY DEAD.


There are 4 places that the temperature matters on the lines.

I suppose if you knew those 4 places you'd be able to say where
they are and what temperatures to expect in an R134a fridge. Right???
Any chance you'd consider actually answering my question by doing just
that? I limited the scope of the question to one temperature
because the newsgroups have difficulty addressing even one precise question.
But I'd appreciate all four locations and temps...please.

Let me worry about whether I can measure temperature.


But it is correct that the real test is inside the box.

[hr(bob) [email protected]]

On Mar 1, 8:51*pm, mike wrote:
Ralph Mowery wrote:
"HeyBub" wrote in message
om...
Yes, I have more questions, but I'm hoping I can get
at least one answered to help determine if my fridge is going south.
Thanks, mike
At two inches from the compressor I think (but do not know) that the
temperature won't be as cold as it is at the evaporator.

Two inches from the output of the compressor should be the
HOTTEST point in the system.
Mine is 87F with 60F ambient.
You'd know that if people wouldn't keep snipping all my input
and replacing it with, "I know but I ain't tellin'" and "You're
too stupid to measure temperature".
Seems cool to me, hence the question about R134a systems.

I would imagine that the only temperature that counts is the one inside
the box.

More replies but still little useful info.
The freezer was hot 23F.
Turning down the thermostat made it more cold 0F.
SOMETHING CHANGED over a short time, a few days till I noticed
the ice cream was soft!
SYMPTOMS SEEM INCONGRUENT.
If the compressor cycles, not running continuously, shouldn't the thermostat
have kept the (average) inside temperature constant independent of any
thermodynamic changes in the refrigeration cycle?
The symptom should have been longer run times. *Why did temperature
change significantly without significant change in run time?
Can I learn anything about impending system failure from temperatures
at various places in the refrigeration cycle?
In particular, I'd expected the hottest part of the system to be hotter.
I'D RATHER NOT WAIT UNTIL IT'S COMPLETELY DEAD.



There are 4 places that the temperature matters on the lines.

I suppose if you knew those 4 places you'd be able to say where
they are and what temperatures to expect in an R134a fridge. *Right???
Any chance you'd consider actually answering my question by doing just
that? *I limited the scope of the question to one temperature
because the newsgroups have difficulty addressing even one precise question.
But I'd appreciate all four locations and temps...please.

Let me worry about whether I can measure temperature.





But it is correct that the real test is inside the box.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Have you shut the entire refrigerator/freezer down for 4 to 6 hours to
totally defrost anything that might have an ice build-up and then
start over again? It sure sounds like something is wrong besides the
compressor/evaporator system.