Fridge temperatures???

I have a 2008 model Kenmore refrigerator with top
freezer.

I have no experience with these newfangled high-deficiency
R134a units.

I noticed that my ice cream was softer than usual.
Freezer temp was 23F, Fridge at 45F.

I made some temperature measurements and am getting
confusing results.

The system seems to be cycling on/off normally.

Air blowing into the freezer compartment is -3F.
That seems high for a system that should run near
zero in the freezer compartment.

The condenser fan is running and the coils are free of dust.
The temperature of the pipe leading from the compressor
to the condenser is at 87F.
That seems low???
Temperature of the pipe into the compressor is 57F.
That seems high??? How can that be significantly
higher than the fridge inside temperature?

Ambient is 55F in the kitchen...no I don't heat it
and 61F behind the fridge when it's running.

The drip pan for the defrost water has a thin coat of dust
and no evidence that there's ever been any water in it.
I had similar problems with the old fridge when the defrost timer
quit and the evaporator froze up. The small part of the
evaporator that I can see shows a thin coating of frost,
but no evidence that it's blocked with ice.
I can see the pipe that exits the evaporator and it
has frost on it. But by the time it travels down 5 feet back
to the compressor it's up to 57F.

The only thing that's changed recently is that I replaced
the microwave oven with one drawing twice the power on the
same circuit as the fridge. Can't imagine that caused anything.

I turned down the thermostat. Too early to tell, but it
seems to be colder inside.

The temperatures in/out of the compressor seem to be off????
If the compressor is not running continuously, the inside
temps should not have changed???

Anything else I should check before calling service?
Or am I just worrying too much???

Thanks, mike

In ,
mike typed:
:: Fridge temperatures???
::
:: I have a 2008 model Kenmore refrigerator with top
:: freezer.
::
:: I have no experience with these newfangled high-deficiency
:: R134a units.

Research it online; lots of info available.

::
:: I noticed that my ice cream was softer than usual.
:: Freezer temp was 23F, Fridge at 45F.

Should be 0 and 40 respectively. So you're not far off.
::
:: I made some temperature measurements and am getting
:: confusing results.
::

snip

It's the temp coming OUT of the compressor that matters, plus all the fans
etc. working right along with bulb switches.
A special thermometer to measure the temps is very cheap; last one I
bought was $4.99 and when compared to another thermometer, was dead-on
accuracy, unusual in those things but they're always close enough for in
home use.


....

::
:: I turned down the thermostat. Too early to tell, but it
:: seems to be colder inside.
::
:: The temperatures in/out of the compressor seem to be
:: off????
:: If the compressor is not running continuously, the inside
:: temps should not have changed???

If compressor not running, inside temps should be very slowly rising;
insulation is far from perfect - it HAS to run when it warms up enough!

::
:: Anything else I should check before calling service?

Yeah, finish adjusting the temperature; you aren't that far off! Exp if it's
going to cost you a service call.

HTH,

Twayne`


: Or am I just worrying too much???
::
:: Thanks, mike

Freezer: 0 degrees F.
Refrigerator: above freezing; usually abt 40f.
Often the fridge thermostat affects the freezer, so get it to temp first
unless the freezer is much above 0; then try both to get started.

Forget that other crap; just get the insides to the right temps. If you
can't THEN you need help.

Twayne wrote:
In ,
mike typed:
:: Fridge temperatures???
::
:: I have a 2008 model Kenmore refrigerator with top
:: freezer.
::
:: I have no experience with these newfangled high-deficiency
:: R134a units.

Research it online; lots of info available.

Well, "LOTS" is the problem. Signal to noise ratio on the
web is nearly zero. Not knowing the keywords to search,
you didn't help there either, gets you a zillion hits of
irrelevant garbage. Got any links that apply to my specific
questions that you so carefully snipped?

::
:: I noticed that my ice cream was softer than usual.
:: Freezer temp was 23F, Fridge at 45F.

Should be 0 and 40 respectively. So you're not far off.

23 degrees is not far off????
::
:: I made some temperature measurements and am getting
:: confusing results.
::

snip

It's the temp coming OUT of the compressor that matters

Ok, so what should be the temp be OUT of the compressor.
Mine is 87F...thanks for snipping relevant content...GRRR!
, plus all the fans
etc. working right along with bulb switches.
YES, all good, thanks for snipping relevant content.

A special thermometer to measure the temps is very cheap;

Special in what way?
I'm sure you could be more obtuse if you tried.

I used a thermocouple taped to the pipe, as the pipe
was too small to get a good read with the IR thermometer.
last one I
bought was $4.99 and when compared to another thermometer, was dead-on
accuracy, unusual in those things but they're always close enough for in
home use.

I'm sure you could be more obtuse if you tried. That $4.99 was a dead
give away.
I'll google for "$4.99"
I'm pleased to learn that your unspecified thermometer was dead-on
compared to your other unspecified thermometer.


...

::
:: I turned down the thermostat. Too early to tell, but it
:: seems to be colder inside.
::
:: The temperatures in/out of the compressor seem to be
:: off????
:: If the compressor is not running continuously, the inside
:: temps should not have changed???

If compressor not running, inside temps should be very slowly rising;
insulation is far from perfect - it HAS to run when it warms up enough!

::
:: Anything else I should check before calling service?

Yeah, finish adjusting the temperature; you aren't that far off! Exp if it's
going to cost you a service call.

It's called planning. Inside temps have changed without provocation in
a short period of time.
Info about various system temperatures might be a clue that things are
normal or that something is going south. Waiting for it to fail completely
on a long holiday weekend is not optimal.

Maybe someone will read the Original post that you didn't snip and have
input
as to whether my temperature readings disclose anything about the health
of the system.


HTH,

Twayne`


: Or am I just worrying too much???
::
:: Thanks, mike

Freezer: 0 degrees F.
Refrigerator: above freezing; usually abt 40f.
Often the fridge thermostat affects the freezer, so get it to temp first
unless the freezer is much above 0; then try both to get started.

Forget that other crap; just get the insides to the right temps. If you
can't THEN you need help.

"mike" wrote in message
...
Fridge temperatures???

I have a 2008 model Kenmore refrigerator with top
freezer.

I have no experience with these newfangled high-deficiency
R134a units.

I noticed that my ice cream was softer than usual.
Freezer temp was 23F, Fridge at 45F.

I made some temperature measurements and am getting
confusing results.

The system seems to be cycling on/off normally.

Air blowing into the freezer compartment is -3F.
That seems high for a system that should run near
zero in the freezer compartment.

The condenser fan is running and the coils are free of dust.
The temperature of the pipe leading from the compressor
to the condenser is at 87F.
That seems low???
Temperature of the pipe into the compressor is 57F.
That seems high??? How can that be significantly
higher than the fridge inside temperature?

Ambient is 55F in the kitchen...no I don't heat it
and 61F behind the fridge when it's running.

The drip pan for the defrost water has a thin coat of dust
and no evidence that there's ever been any water in it.
I had similar problems with the old fridge when the defrost timer
quit and the evaporator froze up. The small part of the
evaporator that I can see shows a thin coating of frost,
but no evidence that it's blocked with ice.
I can see the pipe that exits the evaporator and it
has frost on it. But by the time it travels down 5 feet back
to the compressor it's up to 57F.

The only thing that's changed recently is that I replaced
the microwave oven with one drawing twice the power on the
same circuit as the fridge. Can't imagine that caused anything.

I turned down the thermostat. Too early to tell, but it
seems to be colder inside.

The temperatures in/out of the compressor seem to be off????
If the compressor is not running continuously, the inside
temps should not have changed???

Anything else I should check before calling service?
Or am I just worrying too much???

Thanks, mike

All the units under 20 years of age depend on air flow to work. Cold air
from the freezer is moved by a small fan to the Fridge portion. Most units
have more than one port for the flow.

If this is a new problem as indicated, I would check to make sure I had not
placed something in the freezer or Fridge portion than impeded the air flow.
Start from Normal/Normal setting for both once you have checked the airflow
and adjust only one control every 12 hours or so until you have a freezer
temp you like and a Fridge temp of about 40 degrees.

Measuring the temps anyway other than with a freezer or fridge thermometer
is a waste of your time. You can buy both at the BORG for a few dollars
each. Mid point of the freezer and the Fridge at the best location for the
thermometer.


--
Colbyt
Please come visit http://www.househomerepair.com

On Mon, 28 Feb 2011 16:22:55 -0800, mike wrote:

Anything else I should check before calling service?

Maybe. Check that the door gaskets seal tight. Just a wipe down with
diluted bleach water and inspection of the gasket for damage can help.
A tight seal should hold a dollar bill with a little resistance when
pulling it out .

Or am I just worrying too much???

I'm not a doctor, so I can't really comment on that aspect.

Colbyt wrote:
"mike" wrote in message
...
Fridge temperatures???

I have a 2008 model Kenmore refrigerator with top
freezer.

I have no experience with these newfangled high-deficiency
R134a units.

I noticed that my ice cream was softer than usual.
Freezer temp was 23F, Fridge at 45F.

I made some temperature measurements and am getting
confusing results.

The system seems to be cycling on/off normally.

Air blowing into the freezer compartment is -3F.
That seems high for a system that should run near
zero in the freezer compartment.

The condenser fan is running and the coils are free of dust.
The temperature of the pipe leading from the compressor
to the condenser is at 87F.
That seems low???
Temperature of the pipe into the compressor is 57F.
That seems high??? How can that be significantly
higher than the fridge inside temperature?

Ambient is 55F in the kitchen...no I don't heat it
and 61F behind the fridge when it's running.

The drip pan for the defrost water has a thin coat of dust
and no evidence that there's ever been any water in it.
I had similar problems with the old fridge when the defrost timer
quit and the evaporator froze up. The small part of the
evaporator that I can see shows a thin coating of frost,
but no evidence that it's blocked with ice.
I can see the pipe that exits the evaporator and it
has frost on it. But by the time it travels down 5 feet back
to the compressor it's up to 57F.

The only thing that's changed recently is that I replaced
the microwave oven with one drawing twice the power on the
same circuit as the fridge. Can't imagine that caused anything.

I turned down the thermostat. Too early to tell, but it
seems to be colder inside.

The temperatures in/out of the compressor seem to be off????
If the compressor is not running continuously, the inside
temps should not have changed???

Anything else I should check before calling service?
Or am I just worrying too much???

Thanks, mike

All the units under 20 years of age depend on air flow to work. Cold air
from the freezer is moved by a small fan to the Fridge portion. Most units
have more than one port for the flow.

If this is a new problem as indicated, I would check to make sure I had not
placed something in the freezer or Fridge portion than impeded the air flow.
Start from Normal/Normal setting for both once you have checked the airflow
and adjust only one control every 12 hours or so until you have a freezer
temp you like and a Fridge temp of about 40 degrees.

Measuring the temps anyway other than with a freezer or fridge thermometer
is a waste of your time.

I'd like to understand what's so special about a freezer or fridge
thermometer.
What is it about my digital readout thermocouple meter that makes it
unsuitable??
Water around here is pretty pure...and it freezes at approximately
32F according to my meter.

You can buy both at the BORG for a few dollars
each. Mid point of the freezer and the Fridge at the best location for the
thermometer.

"mike" wrote

I noticed that my ice cream was softer than usual.
Freezer temp was 23F, Fridge at 45F.


Air blowing into the freezer compartment is -3F.
That seems high for a system that should run near
zero in the freezer compartment.


Ambient is 55F in the kitchen...no I don't heat it
and 61F behind the fridge when it's running.


Anything else I should check before calling service?
Or am I just worrying too much???

Thanks, mike

Be sure the evaporator fan is running properly and you are getting the right
air flow.

I've read, but have no proof, that too cold of an ambient air can cause a
refrigerator to not cool properly. If there is any truth to that, you'd
need a good AC guy to explain it.

On 2/28/2011 7:22 PM, mike wrote:
Fridge temperatures???

I have a 2008 model Kenmore refrigerator with top
freezer.

I have no experience with these newfangled high-deficiency
R134a units.

I noticed that my ice cream was softer than usual.
Freezer temp was 23F, Fridge at 45F.

You need to measure the "product temperature" not the air temperature.

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in
:


"mike" wrote

I noticed that my ice cream was softer than usual.
Freezer temp was 23F, Fridge at 45F.


Air blowing into the freezer compartment is -3F.
That seems high for a system that should run near
zero in the freezer compartment.


Ambient is 55F in the kitchen...no I don't heat it
and 61F behind the fridge when it's running.


Anything else I should check before calling service?
Or am I just worrying too much???

Thanks, mike

Be sure the evaporator fan is running properly and you are getting the
right air flow.

I've read, but have no proof, that too cold of an ambient air can
cause a refrigerator to not cool properly. If there is any truth to
that, you'd need a good AC guy to explain it.





I had a similar experience with a fridge located in my garage. The fridge
and freezer worked fine in the summer but when the ambient in the garage
dropped to 5C (41F) in the winter, the freezer warmed from -18C (0C) to
about -7C (19F). Setting the controller to it's max did nothing. My
diagnosis was that there wasn't enough demand for the compressor to run
because the fridge was actually being cooled by the low ambient air
temperature in the garage (the thermostat is located in the fridge, just
under the freezer).

If the compressor doesn't run, there is no cooling in the freezer. I
solved the problem by creating a cooling demand in the fridge using an 11
watt CF bulb, always on, placed about 6 inches under the thermosat. Now
my freezer holds -18C all winter and the fridge controls at 3C. I only do
this in the winter.

My fridge is about 12 years old and not as efficient as the new ones.
Since the poster's fridge is new and no doubt much better insulated than
mine, and since he keeps the ambient quite low, could this be a similar
problem?

WRP

Discharge temp of 87 while running, that's a bit low. My
guess is that your refrigerator is low on refrigerant. This
is a "sealed system" problem. Please check your owners
manual, reciept, etc. If the fridge is 5 years or newer,
this should be covered by warranty. Since the unit itself is
3 years old, try to find your reciept.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"mike" wrote in message
...
Fridge temperatures???

I have a 2008 model Kenmore refrigerator with top
freezer.

I have no experience with these newfangled high-deficiency
R134a units.

I noticed that my ice cream was softer than usual.
Freezer temp was 23F, Fridge at 45F.

I made some temperature measurements and am getting
confusing results.

The system seems to be cycling on/off normally.

Air blowing into the freezer compartment is -3F.
That seems high for a system that should run near
zero in the freezer compartment.

The condenser fan is running and the coils are free of dust.
The temperature of the pipe leading from the compressor
to the condenser is at 87F.
That seems low???
Temperature of the pipe into the compressor is 57F.
That seems high??? How can that be significantly
higher than the fridge inside temperature?

Ambient is 55F in the kitchen...no I don't heat it
and 61F behind the fridge when it's running.

The drip pan for the defrost water has a thin coat of dust
and no evidence that there's ever been any water in it.
I had similar problems with the old fridge when the defrost
timer
quit and the evaporator froze up. The small part of the
evaporator that I can see shows a thin coating of frost,
but no evidence that it's blocked with ice.
I can see the pipe that exits the evaporator and it
has frost on it. But by the time it travels down 5 feet
back
to the compressor it's up to 57F.

The only thing that's changed recently is that I replaced
the microwave oven with one drawing twice the power on the
same circuit as the fridge. Can't imagine that caused
anything.

I turned down the thermostat. Too early to tell, but it
seems to be colder inside.

The temperatures in/out of the compressor seem to be off????
If the compressor is not running continuously, the inside
temps should not have changed???

Anything else I should check before calling service?
Or am I just worrying too much???

Thanks, mike

Three year old fridge, sealed system problem. Should be
covered by warranty.

At this point, turning the thermostat will do nothing. Just
like when your car is out of gas, and you stomp on the gas
pedal. Doesn't do anything. Actually, closer to "when your
car's fuel filter is clogged". In the case of the 2008
Kenmore going down the road, it's low on gas, not clogged
filter.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Twayne" wrote in message
...


::
:: Anything else I should check before calling service?

Yeah, finish adjusting the temperature; you aren't that far
off! Exp if it's
going to cost you a service call.

HTH,

Twayne`

If the system had refrigerant, and the door gaskets were
leaking, the discharge temp would be a lot hotter than 85F.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Oren" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 28 Feb 2011 16:22:55 -0800, mike
wrote:

Anything else I should check before calling service?

Maybe. Check that the door gaskets seal tight. Just a wipe
down with
diluted bleach water and inspection of the gasket for damage
can help.
A tight seal should hold a dollar bill with a little
resistance when
pulling it out .

Or am I just worrying too much???

I'm not a doctor, so I can't really comment on that aspect.

Two posibilities come to mind, neither apply here.
* Cold enough that the thermostat is satisfied, and the
compressor doesn't run.
* Condensor is cold enough that the refrigerant is super
cooled. Head pressure isn't enough, or phase change is
inadequate.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

I've read, but have no proof, that too cold of an ambient
air can cause a
refrigerator to not cool properly. If there is any truth to
that, you'd
need a good AC guy to explain it.

On 3/1/2011 7:06 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
Three year old fridge, sealed system problem. Should be
covered by warranty.

At this point, turning the thermostat will do nothing. Just
like when your car is out of gas, and you stomp on the gas
pedal. Doesn't do anything. Actually, closer to "when your
car's fuel filter is clogged". In the case of the 2008
Kenmore going down the road, it's low on gas, not clogged
filter.

How would you verify that? If you clipped on ampprobe would it show it
show less current being drawn?

Jeff

I'd verfy low refrigerant either by amp draw (less work =
less amps) or piercing valve on the low pressure side.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Jeff Thies"
wrote in message ...

How would you verify that? If you clipped on ampprobe would
it show it
show less current being drawn?

Jeff

Hey spammed, it's amazing how silly you can be. If it makes the temps
needed, no other measurements are needed. If it can't, then it needs to be
repaired/replaced. From the way you talk, it could even be that the
compressor is worn out from the machine not being level as in way off from
level.
If you don't know what a "special" thermometer for the
freezer/refrigerator is, you're very short in imaginaton. It simply has
ranges marked for freezer and for refrigerator temps.
And no, I'm not going to get you a bunch of links; you can do that on
your own. Because you don't know how to use a search engine and not get a
gazillion hits, all you need to do is read a bit and learn how to use their
features.
Nothing is owed to you and any help you get here is from people trying to
assist you. If you're ignorant enough to not realize that and ask clarifying
questions if needed, that's your problem. I had a feeling you were trolling
and now i'm sure of it so I'll have nothing further to do with you.




In ,
mike typed:
:: Twayne wrote:
::: In ,
::: mike typed:
::::: Fridge temperatures???
:::::
::::: I have a 2008 model Kenmore refrigerator with top
::::: freezer.
:::::
::::: I have no experience with these newfangled
::::: high-deficiency R134a units.
:::
::: Research it online; lots of info available.
::
:: Well, "LOTS" is the problem. Signal to noise ratio on the
:: web is nearly zero. Not knowing the keywords to search,
:: you didn't help there either, gets you a zillion hits of
:: irrelevant garbage. Got any links that apply to my
:: specific
:: questions that you so carefully snipped?
:::
:::::
::::: I noticed that my ice cream was softer than usual.
::::: Freezer temp was 23F, Fridge at 45F.
:::
::: Should be 0 and 40 respectively. So you're not far off.
::
:: 23 degrees is not far off????
:::::
::::: I made some temperature measurements and am getting
::::: confusing results.
:::::
:::
::: snip
:::
::: It's the temp coming OUT of the compressor that matters
::
:: Ok, so what should be the temp be OUT of the compressor.
:: Mine is 87F...thanks for snipping relevant content...GRRR!
:: , plus all the fans
::: etc. working right along with bulb switches.
:: YES, all good, thanks for snipping relevant content.
::
::: A special thermometer to measure the temps is very
::: cheap;
::
:: Special in what way?
:: I'm sure you could be more obtuse if you tried.
::
:: I used a thermocouple taped to the pipe, as the pipe
:: was too small to get a good read with the IR thermometer.
:: last one I
::: bought was $4.99 and when compared to another
::: thermometer, was dead-on accuracy, unusual in those
::: things but they're always close enough for in home use.
::
:: I'm sure you could be more obtuse if you tried. That
:: $4.99 was a dead give away.
:: I'll google for "$4.99"
:: I'm pleased to learn that your unspecified thermometer was
:: dead-on compared to your other unspecified thermometer.
:::
:::
::: ...
:::
:::::
::::: I turned down the thermostat. Too early to tell, but it
::::: seems to be colder inside.
:::::
::::: The temperatures in/out of the compressor seem to be
::::: off????
::::: If the compressor is not running continuously, the
::::: inside temps should not have changed???
:::
::: If compressor not running, inside temps should be very
::: slowly rising; insulation is far from perfect - it HAS to
::: run when it warms up enough!
:::
:::::
::::: Anything else I should check before calling service?
:::
::: Yeah, finish adjusting the temperature; you aren't that
::: far off! Exp if it's going to cost you a service call.
::
:: It's called planning. Inside temps have changed without
:: provocation in
:: a short period of time.
:: Info about various system temperatures might be a clue
:: that things are normal or that something is going south.
:: Waiting for it to fail completely on a long holiday
:: weekend is not optimal.
::
:: Maybe someone will read the Original post that you didn't
:: snip and have input
:: as to whether my temperature readings disclose anything
:: about the health of the system.
::
:::
::: HTH,
:::
::: Twayne`
:::
:::
:::: Or am I just worrying too much???
:::::
::::: Thanks, mike
:::
::: Freezer: 0 degrees F.
::: Refrigerator: above freezing; usually abt 40f.
::: Often the fridge thermostat affects the freezer, so get
::: it to temp first unless the freezer is much above 0; then
::: try both to get started.
:::
::: Forget that other crap; just get the insides to the right
::: temps. If you can't THEN you need help.

Stormin Mormon wrote:
Discharge temp of 87 while running, that's a bit low.

How much is a bit? That part of the house is kept at about
54F. The 60F was measured behind the fridge in the region
I was measuring the pipe temps. Most people would have
an ambient nearer 68F.
My
guess is that your refrigerator is low on refrigerant. This
is a "sealed system" problem. Please check your owners
manual, reciept, etc. If the fridge is 5 years or newer,
this should be covered by warranty. Since the unit itself is
3 years old, try to find your reciept.


Warranty clearly states one year on materials and workmanship.
No mention of more on any parts. This was the norm for
low-end fridges when I bought it in 2008. That way, they get
to upsell you an extended warranty.

Since this happened over a short period of time, I'd expect a
leak to be detectable. So, I dug out the leak detector.
Couldn't find any evidence of refrigerant either inside the
fridge/freezer or at any of the accessible piping behind/below.