I was watching a documentary called "Download: The True Story of the
Internet:" One of the shows is about search, and Google has made
quite a few dollars by showing ads on their search page. It seems
that people are willing to pay big bucks for ads.

I just wonder how may advertisers are unhappy since Google search has
ruined Usenet searches. As I have quit using Google to search Usenet,
my hits have dropped significantly. I can only hope that the hits
drop so low as to cause Google to go back to being useful.

Google has changed from enormously valuable search tool to a useless
piece of crap.

On 1/30/2011 2:24 PM, Metspitzer wrote:
I was watching a documentary called "Download: The True Story of the
Internet:" One of the shows is about search, and Google has made
quite a few dollars by showing ads on their search page. It seems
that people are willing to pay big bucks for ads.

I just wonder how may advertisers are unhappy since Google search has
ruined Usenet searches. As I have quit using Google to search Usenet,
my hits have dropped significantly. I can only hope that the hits
drop so low as to cause Google to go back to being useful.

Google has changed from enormously valuable search tool to a useless
piece of crap.

Agreed. But is there anything else out there that has a Usenet archive?
I, too, miss being able to find ancient old posts.

Serious question, BTW.

--
aem sends...

aemeijers wrote in
:

On 1/30/2011 2:24 PM, Metspitzer wrote:
I was watching a documentary called "Download: The True Story of the
Internet:" One of the shows is about search, and Google has made
quite a few dollars by showing ads on their search page. It seems
that people are willing to pay big bucks for ads.

I just wonder how may advertisers are unhappy since Google search has
ruined Usenet searches. As I have quit using Google to search Usenet,
my hits have dropped significantly. I can only hope that the hits
drop so low as to cause Google to go back to being useful.

Google has changed from enormously valuable search tool to a useless
piece of crap.

Agreed. But is there anything else out there that has a Usenet archive?
I, too, miss being able to find ancient old posts.

Serious question, BTW.





You still can find all old and new Usenet posts on Google. Google owns what
used to be Deja News' Usenet archive.

On the Google home page, click the word "More" at upper left. From the
resulting drop-down menu, click "Groups".

Once on the "Groups" page, click "Advanced Groups Search" at upper-right.

At that point, you get an approximation of the old Deja News search page.

After your searh results are presented to you, change the radio button
below the text-box to "Google Groups" from the default "All Groups". This
gets rid of the Web results, and limits the seach to Usenet. Each time you
run a search, you need to change that radio button; it does not stay where
you put it.

My point of distaste with Google is how they deliberately misdirect people
by pretending that Usenet is Google.


--
Tegger

Metspitzer wrote in
:

I was watching a documentary called "Download: The True Story of the
Internet:" One of the shows is about search, and Google has made
quite a few dollars by showing ads on their search page. It seems
that people are willing to pay big bucks for ads.



That's how Google makes all of its money. That's how Google stays in
business in the first place.



I just wonder how may advertisers are unhappy since Google search has
ruined Usenet searches. As I have quit using Google to search Usenet,
my hits have dropped significantly. I can only hope that the hits
drop so low as to cause Google to go back to being useful.



Not sure what you mean here. What kind of "hits" are you talking about?



Google has changed from enormously valuable search tool to a useless
piece of crap.



It's still pretty good, but you do need to tailor your search terms
carefully, with judicious use of symbols like +, - and "".

--
Tegger

On 1/30/2011 2:33 PM Tegger spake thus:

Metspitzer wrote in
:

Google has changed from enormously valuable search tool to a useless
piece of crap.

It's still pretty good, but you do need to tailor your search terms
carefully, with judicious use of symbols like +, - and "".

I agree with his "piece of crap" comment. It's true that Google has a
vast searchable Usenet archive (bought from Deja News), but their search
is often broken beyond repair, no matter what kind of search terms one
uses. Dunno how well it works now, but I've had bad luck with it in the
past.

And there are two other good reasons to hate Google Groups: the mistaken
impression that Usenet *is* Google Groups, which they do little to
dispel, and the fact that GG is a huge spam portal, despite Google's
protestations against spam.


--
Comment on quaint Usenet customs, from Usenet:

To me, the *plonk...* reminds me of the old man at the public hearing
who stands to make his point, then removes his hearing aid as a sign
that he is not going to hear any rebuttals.

David Nebenzahl wrote in news:4d45e98e$0$6179
:

On 1/30/2011 2:33 PM Tegger spake thus:

Metspitzer wrote in
:

Google has changed from enormously valuable search tool to a useless
piece of crap.

It's still pretty good, but you do need to tailor your search terms
carefully, with judicious use of symbols like +, - and "".

I agree with his "piece of crap" comment. It's true that Google has a
vast searchable Usenet archive (bought from Deja News), but their search
is often broken beyond repair, no matter what kind of search terms one
uses. Dunno how well it works now, but I've had bad luck with it in the
past.



It works as well as it used to, BUT you MUST use "Advanced Groups Search,
AND change that radio button to "Google Groups" (Usenet-only) from "All
Groups" (includes Web boards and Web boards that repost Usenet articles).



And there are two other good reasons to hate Google Groups: the mistaken
impression that Usenet *is* Google Groups, which they do little to
dispel,



The mistaken impression they /actively promote/, you mean.



and the fact that GG is a huge spam portal, despite Google's
protestations against spam.



Didn't they used to have a slogan that went something like, "Do no evil"?
Whatever happened to that?



--
Tegger

Tegger invalid example.com wrote:

David Nebenzahl nobody but.us.chickens wrote
Tegger spake thus:
Metspitzer kilowatt charter.net wrote in

Google has changed from enormously valuable search tool to a
useless piece of crap.

It's still pretty good, but you do need to tailor your search
terms carefully, with judicious use of symbols like +, - and
"".

I agree with his "piece of crap" comment. It's true that Google
has a vast searchable Usenet archive (bought from Deja News),
but their search is often broken beyond repair, no matter what
kind of search terms one uses. Dunno how well it works now, but
I've had bad luck with it in the past.



It works as well as it used to,

It is crap, sometimes obviously so, like when the server does not
work at all. Most of the time the results are totally screwed up.

BUT you MUST use "Advanced Groups Search, AND change that radio
button to "Google Groups" (Usenet-only) from "All Groups"
(includes Web boards and Web boards that repost Usenet
articles).

Anyone who is familiar with searching UseNet should have been
doing that for years. Besides dumping spam on UseNet and totally
messing up the UseNet archive search results, you get tons of
garbage group results nowadays.

When Google Groups first took over from DejaNews, the first
gutting of the search engine was when Google removed the
most-relevant-groups list. That was an omen. The
most-relevant-groups list was useful for determining which is the
best group to post your question to. Google messed up that feature
because, as history has proved, they could not care less about
UseNet.

The uselessness of the UseNet archive search under Google, and the
massive amount of spam Google dumps on us every day, gives Google
Groups a negative value.

Google sucks.
--
















And there are two other good reasons to hate Google Groups: the
mistaken impression that Usenet *is* Google Groups, which they
do little to dispel,



The mistaken impression they /actively promote/, you mean.



and the fact that GG is a huge spam portal, despite Google's
protestations against spam.



Didn't they used to have a slogan that went something like, "Do
no evil"? Whatever happened to that?




--
Tegger



Path: news.astraweb.com!border6.newsrouter.astraweb.com! news.glorb.com!news2.glorb.com!news.glorb.com!news .alt.net
From: Tegger invalid example.com
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair
Subject: OT Searching Usenet
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 23:30:51 +0000 (UTC)
Organization: 06303-PR4-000
Lines: 50
Message-ID: Xns9E7DBC5A111E5tegger 208.90.168.18
References: taebk6peeul3eciaj5nb920j4l6s67bvsa 4ax.com Xns9E7DB2AE07D46tegger 208.90.168.18 4d45e98e$0$6179$822641b3 news.adtechcomputers.com
User-Agent: Xnews/5.04.25

On 1/30/2011 5:31 PM, Tegger wrote:
wrote in
:

On 1/30/2011 2:24 PM, Metspitzer wrote:
I was watching a documentary called "Download: The True Story of the
Internet:" One of the shows is about search, and Google has made
quite a few dollars by showing ads on their search page. It seems
that people are willing to pay big bucks for ads.

I just wonder how may advertisers are unhappy since Google search has
ruined Usenet searches. As I have quit using Google to search Usenet,
my hits have dropped significantly. I can only hope that the hits
drop so low as to cause Google to go back to being useful.

Google has changed from enormously valuable search tool to a useless
piece of crap.

Agreed. But is there anything else out there that has a Usenet archive?
I, too, miss being able to find ancient old posts.

Serious question, BTW.





You still can find all old and new Usenet posts on Google. Google owns what
used to be Deja News' Usenet archive.

On the Google home page, click the word "More" at upper left. From the
resulting drop-down menu, click "Groups".

Once on the "Groups" page, click "Advanced Groups Search" at upper-right.

At that point, you get an approximation of the old Deja News search page.

After your searh results are presented to you, change the radio button
below the text-box to "Google Groups" from the default "All Groups". This
gets rid of the Web results, and limits the seach to Usenet. Each time you
run a search, you need to change that radio button; it does not stay where
you put it.

My point of distaste with Google is how they deliberately misdirect people
by pretending that Usenet is Google.



I understand the menus- I think their algorithm is broken. It no longer
finds posts I know I made years ago, so I must assume there are similar
holes when I search for other authors.

Their NEWS search is broken even worse.

--
aem sends...

aemeijers aemeijers att.net wrote:

I understand the menus- I think their algorithm is broken. It no
longer finds posts I know I made years ago, so I must assume
there are similar holes when I search for other authors.

It is really weird, like voodoo. You never know what results you
are going to get, if any. Results vary from one search to another,
with the same exact criteria and settings. You rarely see
programming that bad. I think gasp even Microsoft would be
better at it. At least Microsoft keeps their servers going.

aemeijers wrote:

-snip-
I understand the menus- I think their algorithm is broken. It no longer
finds posts I know I made years ago, so I must assume there are similar
holes when I search for other authors.

Yep-- That's been my experience, too. I've tried to find a couple
conversations I participated in on alt.quotation from several years
ago & nothing comes up.

Jim

On 1/30/2011 5:47 PM Jim Elbrecht spake thus:

aemeijers wrote:

-snip-

I understand the menus- I think their algorithm is broken. It no
longer finds posts I know I made years ago, so I must assume there
are similar holes when I search for other authors.

Yep-- That's been my experience, too. I've tried to find a couple
conversations I participated in on alt.quotation from several years
ago & nothing comes up.

So I'm not sure whether their search routines are broken (a little hard
to believe, this being the great Google, after all) or if they're just
quietly "pruning" their Usenet archives to make more room ...


--
Comment on quaint Usenet customs, from Usenet:

To me, the *plonk...* reminds me of the old man at the public hearing
who stands to make his point, then removes his hearing aid as a sign
that he is not going to hear any rebuttals.

aemeijers aemeijers att.net wrote:

I understand the menus- I think their algorithm is broken. It no
longer finds posts I know I made years ago

I just got the Google Groups UseNet archive search result where
all of the posts are numbered "1".

Anybody who says Google Groups UseNet archive search works well
obviously doesn't actually use it.

On Jan 30, 2:24*pm, Metspitzer wrote:
I was watching a documentary called "Download: The True Story of the
Internet:" *One of the shows is about search, and Google has made
quite a few dollars by showing ads on their search page. *It seems
that people are willing to pay big bucks for ads.

I just wonder how may advertisers are unhappy since Google search has
ruined Usenet searches. *As I have quit using Google to search Usenet,
my hits have dropped significantly. *I can only hope that the hits
drop so low as to cause Google to go back to being useful.

Google has changed from enormously valuable search tool to a useless
piece of crap.

Its still there, search groups groups.

Google has made a mess by google spam.
Google spams.

They are currently trying new things on the groups engine
and its a mess. I intend to switch ASAP

I also do not like the image search scripting, and try to
go Elmer Fudd or basic. Google was the first to use multiple data
type searching which was wonderfull, search web, images, video,
groups.

Except Google like to call forums into the usenet category.

greg





greg

aemeijers wrote:
I understand the menus- I think their algorithm is broken. It no
longer finds posts I know I made years ago, so I must assume there
are similar holes when I search for other authors.

Their NEWS search is broken even worse.

Google has been consistently destroying the original dejanews functionality
from the day they took over. My guess is that they make more ad revenue
through real-time google grouping, and have deliberately dumbed down the
archival searching to prompt people to instead ask a question in real time.

The problem is that there was a wealth of information contained within those
archives which is not replaceable. The accumulation of tens of thousands of
individuals, each with their own area of specialties, each contributing
knowledge that otherwise had not, nor ever will be published.

We lost a virtual user-generated Alexandrian library, all thanks to the
greed of Google.

Jon

Tegger wrote:
aemeijers wrote in
:

On 1/30/2011 2:24 PM, Metspitzer wrote:
I was watching a documentary called "Download: The True Story of the
Internet:" One of the shows is about search, and Google has made
quite a few dollars by showing ads on their search page. It seems
that people are willing to pay big bucks for ads.

I just wonder how may advertisers are unhappy since Google search has
ruined Usenet searches. As I have quit using Google to search Usenet,
my hits have dropped significantly. I can only hope that the hits
drop so low as to cause Google to go back to being useful.

Google has changed from enormously valuable search tool to a useless
piece of crap.
Agreed. But is there anything else out there that has a Usenet archive?
I, too, miss being able to find ancient old posts.

Serious question, BTW.





You still can find all old and new Usenet posts on Google. Google owns what
used to be Deja News' Usenet archive.

On the Google home page, click the word "More" at upper left. From the
resulting drop-down menu, click "Groups".

Once on the "Groups" page, click "Advanced Groups Search" at upper-right.

At that point, you get an approximation of the old Deja News search page.

After your searh results are presented to you, change the radio button
below the text-box to "Google Groups" from the default "All Groups". This
gets rid of the Web results, and limits the seach to Usenet. Each time you
run a search, you need to change that radio button; it does not stay where
you put it.

Never noticed that button.

On the advanced google-groups search page there is a similar button for
"Google Groups". I always assumed it got you only the groups run by
google. Sounds like google and usenet? Is there a way to only search
usenet - no groups run by google?


My point of distaste with Google is how they deliberately misdirect people
by pretending that Usenet is Google.

"Jon Danniken" jonSPAMMENOTdanniken yahSPAMhoo.com wrote:

....

The problem is that there was a wealth of information contained
within those archives which is not replaceable. The
accumulation of tens of thousands of individuals, each with
their own area of specialties, each contributing knowledge that
otherwise had not, nor ever will be published.

We lost a virtual user-generated Alexandrian library, all thanks
to the greed of Google.

I expect and hope that there are other complete UseNet archives
(like government, Microsoft, maybe some other big companies, maybe
some rich individuals/organizations).

Google hires lots of H1B workers who probably could not care less
about the public UseNet archive.

I would pay a small fee for access to a real UseNet archive that
is searchable. Maybe premium UseNet servers will start something
like that.

Good luck and have fun.
--




















Jon

bud-- remove.budnews isp.com wrote:

On the advanced google-groups search page there is a similar
button for "Google Groups"...Is there a way to only search
usenet - no groups run by google?

I think that button has been changed to do so. But still, the
search results are screwed beyond recognition, and you get lots of
garbage "sex" groups mixed in with all of the Google Groups spam.
And sometimes the server does not return anything, and so on.

bud-- wrote in
:

Tegger wrote:


After your searh results are presented to you, change the radio
button below the text-box to "Google Groups" from the default "All
Groups". This gets rid of the Web results, and limits the seach to
Usenet. Each time you run a search, you need to change that radio
button; it does not stay where you put it.

Never noticed that button.

On the advanced google-groups search page there is a similar button
for "Google Groups". I always assumed it got you only the groups run
by google. Sounds like google and usenet? Is there a way to only
search usenet - no groups run by google?




That's the point. Google is calling Usenet "Google Groups".

Google does NOT run Usenet and never has. They just feed Usenet goups
through their Web portal and don't bother telling you where they're
actually getting the stuff from.

By calling Usenet "Google Groups", Google is likely trying to make ad
revenue by getting people to read and post to Usenet through Google's Web
portal.

Anyway, if you want Usenet-only archives, you need to click the wrongly-
named "Google Groups" radio button.


--
Tegger

On 1/30/2011 4:31 PM, Tegger wrote:

You still can find all old and new Usenet posts on Google.

No, you can't. That's the problem. The search function is broken, so
that search results are a hit-and-miss (mostly miss) affair.

On the Google home page, click the word "More" at upper left. From the
resulting drop-down menu, click "Groups".

Once on the "Groups" page, click "Advanced Groups Search" at upper-right.

And don't forget to change the number of results per page to 100,
because the search will _only_ show you hits up to the maximum number
of results you specified. Doesn't matter if there's five thousand hits
using your name on alt.home.repair - it'll tell you there's that many,
but only display the number of hits you selected.

The best I've been able to do is repeated searching using a
combination of keywords and dates in an attempt to bring up additional
search results. But sometimes, using the date parameters in Advanced
Search ends up eliminating all possible returns, because, again, the
search function is broken.

Google has been aware for years that this is broken, and they're not
particularly interested in fixing it. I can only assume that they've
decided there's not enough money in it to make it worth their while.

On 1/31/2011 12:01 PM, Jon Danniken wrote:
aemeijers wrote:
I understand the menus- I think their algorithm is broken. It no
longer finds posts I know I made years ago, so I must assume there
are similar holes when I search for other authors.

Their NEWS search is broken even worse.

Google has been consistently destroying the original dejanews functionality
from the day they took over. My guess is that they make more ad revenue
through real-time google grouping, and have deliberately dumbed down the
archival searching to prompt people to instead ask a question in real time.

The problem is that there was a wealth of information contained within those
archives which is not replaceable. The accumulation of tens of thousands of
individuals, each with their own area of specialties, each contributing
knowledge that otherwise had not, nor ever will be published.

We lost a virtual user-generated Alexandrian library, all thanks to the
greed of Google.

Jon


If they still have the source data, it can be recreated, if Google can
find a way to make a buck off it.

--
aem sends...