On Jan 1, 5:40*am, Mikepier wrote:
My choices of fasteners would be.
1) Senco M2 style staples; 2" o/c all directions, both sisters.
2) .148" dia plywood shorts; 3" o/c
3) Simpson SDS 1/4; 4" o/c

What is number 2?

"Plywood shorts"

They are short nails designed for attaching plywood (normally 3/8"
thru 1/2" thickness) to framing.

The theory being, no need to have a full length nail to attach
plywood.
They are really for shear walls but they will work even better in a
static loading situation like this repair.
The nails are just needed to transfer shear between the sisters and
the damaged joist so no need to go crazy on the length.

The shorts are less likely to split the receiving member.

cheers
Bob

"Mikepier" wrote in message
...
I'm redoing my basement and came across a 2X8 joist that was notched
at some point in the past.It is notched approx It is the last joist
before the outside sill plate. As you can see it is close to the
steel beam. What is the best way to repair it or strengthen it? I was
thinking put another piece of 2X8 next to it, one end resting on the
beam and extending a good 2 feet past the notch, fastening it with
bolts and washers. Any inputs appreciated.

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo...eat=directlink



Considering you have a tile floor above it and it hasn't cracked I wouldn't
mess with it to much..Glue and lag a couple of sisters if you'll sleep
better and move on...

On Jan 2, 2:27*am, "benick" wrote:


Considering you have a tile floor above it and it hasn't cracked I wouldn't
mess with it to much..Glue and lag a couple of sisters if you'll sleep
better and move on...

I sorta agree with you. It's not a great big deal and many are over
thinking this. My house, which is 7 years old has floor joists made
out of two 2x4's laying flat with 1/2" osb between them vertically. I
am sure if he attaches a piece of plywood with just some glue and some
8d nails, it would be fine and hold any load one will see in a normal
house, even a piano.

Hank

On Jan 2, 2:27*am, "benick" wrote:
"Mikepier" wrote in message

...

I'm redoing my basement and came across a 2X8 joist that was notched
at some point in the past.It is notched approx *It is the last joist
before the outside sill plate. As you can see it *is close to the
steel beam. What is the best way to repair it or strengthen it? I was
thinking put another piece of 2X8 next to it, one end resting on the
beam and extending a good 2 feet past the notch, fastening it with
bolts and washers. Any inputs appreciated.

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo...XHVg?feat=dire....

Considering you have a tile floor above it and it hasn't cracked I wouldn't
mess with it to much..Glue and lag a couple of sisters if you'll sleep
better and move on...

I still use the term 'lag', also, when the state of the art has passed
them by. Nowadays there would be very few situations where I'd reach
for a lag (and the drill to bore a pilot), instead of using self-
drilling structural screws that can be driven with an impact in a
couple of seconds.

In the OP's situation I'd rather have more smaller fasteners that were
easier to install, than a few larger ones that were more onerous. In
the day sisters were simply nailed and they held just fine. Now
everything is glued. Either glue or structural screws would be fine
by themselves, but you need the clamping pressure of the screws if
you're going to glue, so...

Another thing about lags - their maximum diameter is restricted to 1/4
of the wood thickness that the business end is buried in - in this
case a 2x would allow a 3/8" lag. Lags are notoriously crappy metal,
made in places where lag guilds never took off, and their load
capacity is not all that much greater than other choices such as
common nails and structural screws, which are easier to install.

There's really not a lot of load on a typical floor joist. Figure a
12' span and 16" OC with a 40# live load, and that's about 640# total
for the full span. A 10d common nail can take about 70# in shear, so
we're not talking about a lot of load, fasteners or concern.
Particularly since the OP's joist has been like that for decades.

One caveat - make it pretty. Even if the repair is a straightforward
one and not structurally critical, a sketchy looking repair will raise
more flags when the house is sold. So make it a neat, workmanlike
job.

R

On Dec 30 2010, 10:44*pm, Mikepier wrote:
I'm redoing my basement and came across a 2X8 joist that was notched
at some point in the past.It is notched approx *It is the last joist
before the outside sill plate. As you can see it *is close to the
steel beam. What is the best way to repair it or strengthen it? I was
thinking put another piece of 2X8 next to it, one end resting on the
beam and extending a good 2 feet past the notch, fastening it with
bolts and washers. Any inputs appreciated.

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo...XHVg?feat=dire....

One of the easiest ways I have found to repair something like this is
with a steel plate. I weld so its not much trouble for me to do. Steel
offers up a lot of strength in a small package.

Jimmie

"RicodJour" wrote in message
...
On Jan 2, 2:27 am, "benick" wrote:
"Mikepier" wrote in message

...

I'm redoing my basement and came across a 2X8 joist that was notched
at some point in the past.It is notched approx It is the last joist
before the outside sill plate. As you can see it is close to the
steel beam. What is the best way to repair it or strengthen it? I was
thinking put another piece of 2X8 next to it, one end resting on the
beam and extending a good 2 feet past the notch, fastening it with
bolts and washers. Any inputs appreciated.

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo...XHVg?feat=dire...

Considering you have a tile floor above it and it hasn't cracked I
wouldn't
mess with it to much..Glue and lag a couple of sisters if you'll sleep
better and move on...

I still use the term 'lag', also, when the state of the art has passed
them by. Nowadays there would be very few situations where I'd reach
for a lag (and the drill to bore a pilot), instead of using self-
drilling structural screws that can be driven with an impact in a
couple of seconds.

In the OP's situation I'd rather have more smaller fasteners that were
easier to install, than a few larger ones that were more onerous. In
the day sisters were simply nailed and they held just fine. Now
everything is glued. Either glue or structural screws would be fine
by themselves, but you need the clamping pressure of the screws if
you're going to glue, so...

Another thing about lags - their maximum diameter is restricted to 1/4
of the wood thickness that the business end is buried in - in this
case a 2x would allow a 3/8" lag. Lags are notoriously crappy metal,
made in places where lag guilds never took off, and their load
capacity is not all that much greater than other choices such as
common nails and structural screws, which are easier to install.

There's really not a lot of load on a typical floor joist. Figure a
12' span and 16" OC with a 40# live load, and that's about 640# total
for the full span. A 10d common nail can take about 70# in shear, so
we're not talking about a lot of load, fasteners or concern.
Particularly since the OP's joist has been like that for decades.

One caveat - make it pretty. Even if the repair is a straightforward
one and not structurally critical, a sketchy looking repair will raise
more flags when the house is sold. So make it a neat, workmanlike
job.

R


Again more over thinking and less reading...The OP said it will be buried in
a wall..He has a tile floor above it that hasn't cracked nor does he want it
too by doing to much ...

On Jan 3, 1:50*am, "benick" wrote:
"RicodJour" wrote in message

...
On Jan 2, 2:27 am, "benick" wrote:



"Mikepier" wrote in message

....

I'm redoing my basement and came across a 2X8 joist that was notched
at some point in the past.It is notched approx It is the last joist
before the outside sill plate. As you can see it is close to the
steel beam. What is the best way to repair it or strengthen it? I was
thinking put another piece of 2X8 next to it, one end resting on the
beam and extending a good 2 feet past the notch, fastening it with
bolts and washers. Any inputs appreciated.

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo...XHVg?feat=dire...

Considering you have a tile floor above it and it hasn't cracked I
wouldn't
mess with it to much..Glue and lag a couple of sisters if you'll sleep
better and move on...

I still use the term 'lag', also, when the state of the art has passed
them by. *Nowadays there would be very few situations where I'd reach
for a lag (and the drill to bore a pilot), instead of using self-
drilling structural screws that can be driven with an impact in a
couple of seconds.

In the OP's situation I'd rather have more smaller fasteners that were
easier to install, than a few larger ones that were more onerous. *In
the day sisters were simply nailed and they held just fine. *Now
everything is glued. *Either glue or structural screws would be fine
by themselves, but you need the clamping pressure of the screws if
you're going to glue, so...

Another thing about lags - their maximum diameter is restricted to 1/4
of the wood thickness that the business end is buried in - in this
case a 2x would allow a 3/8" lag. *Lags are notoriously crappy metal,
made in places where lag guilds never took off, and their load
capacity is not all that much greater than other choices such as
common nails and structural screws, which are easier to install.

There's really not a lot of load on a typical floor joist. *Figure a
12' span and 16" OC with a 40# live load, and that's about 640# total
for the full span. *A 10d common nail can take about 70# in shear, so
we're not talking about a lot of load, fasteners or concern.
Particularly since the OP's joist has been like that for decades.

One caveat - make it pretty. *Even if the repair is a straightforward
one and not structurally critical, a sketchy looking repair will raise
more flags when the house is sold. *So make it a neat, workmanlike
job.


Again more over thinking and less reading...The OP said it will be buried in
a wall..He has a tile floor above it that hasn't cracked nor does he want it
too by doing to much ...

The joist will be buried inside a wall...huh?

Another question - you believe that knowing the loads involved is a
liability?

If he doesn't jack the joist more than just enough to take the load
off, there's zero chance the repair work will crack the tile floor.

R

On Jan 2, 11:28*am, RicodJour wrote:
On Jan 2, 2:27*am, "benick" wrote:





"Mikepier" wrote in message

....

I'm redoing my basement and came across a 2X8 joist that was notched
at some point in the past.It is notched approx *It is the last joist
before the outside sill plate. As you can see it *is close to the
steel beam. What is the best way to repair it or strengthen it? I was
thinking put another piece of 2X8 next to it, one end resting on the
beam and extending a good 2 feet past the notch, fastening it with
bolts and washers. Any inputs appreciated.

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo...XHVg?feat=dire...

Considering you have a tile floor above it and it hasn't cracked I wouldn't
mess with it to much..Glue and lag a couple of sisters if you'll sleep
better and move on...

I still use the term 'lag', also, when the state of the art has passed
them by. *Nowadays there would be very few situations where I'd reach
for a lag (and the drill to bore a pilot), instead of using self-
drilling structural screws that can be driven with an impact in a
couple of seconds.

In the OP's situation I'd rather have more smaller fasteners that were
easier to install, than a few larger ones that were more onerous. *In
the day sisters were simply nailed and they held just fine. *Now
everything is glued. *Either glue or structural screws would be fine
by themselves, but you need the clamping pressure of the screws if
you're going to glue, so...

Another thing about lags - their maximum diameter is restricted to 1/4
of the wood thickness that the business end is buried in - in this
case a 2x would allow a 3/8" lag. *Lags are notoriously crappy metal,
made in places where lag guilds never took off, and their load
capacity is not all that much greater than other choices such as
common nails and structural screws, which are easier to install.

There's really not a lot of load on a typical floor joist. *Figure a
12' span and 16" OC with a 40# live load, and that's about 640# total
for the full span. *A 10d common nail can take about 70# in shear, so
we're not talking about a lot of load, fasteners or concern.
Particularly since the OP's joist has been like that for decades.

One caveat - make it pretty. *Even if the repair is a straightforward
one and not structurally critical, a sketchy looking repair will raise
more flags when the house is sold. *So make it a neat, workmanlike
job.

R- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Wouldn't lag screws be "gentler" on the tile floor above than either a
hammer or an impact wrench?

Drilling with a standard drill and using a rachet to drive the lags
wouldn't subject the grout or tile to any excessive vibration.

I'm just sayin'...

On Jan 3, 2:22*pm, RicodJour wrote:
On Jan 3, 1:07*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:



On Jan 2, 11:28*am, RicodJour wrote:

I still use the term 'lag', also, when the state of the art has passed
them by. *Nowadays there would be very few situations where I'd reach
for a lag (and the drill to bore a pilot), instead of using self-
drilling structural screws that can be driven with an impact in a
couple of seconds.

In the OP's situation I'd rather have more smaller fasteners that were
easier to install, than a few larger ones that were more onerous. *In
the day sisters were simply nailed and they held just fine. *Now
everything is glued. *Either glue or structural screws would be fine
by themselves, but you need the clamping pressure of the screws if
you're going to glue, so...

Another thing about lags - their maximum diameter is restricted to 1/4
of the wood thickness that the business end is buried in - in this
case a 2x would allow a 3/8" lag. *Lags are notoriously crappy metal,
made in places where lag guilds never took off, and their load
capacity is not all that much greater than other choices such as
common nails and structural screws, which are easier to install.

There's really not a lot of load on a typical floor joist. *Figure a
12' span and 16" OC with a 40# live load, and that's about 640# total
for the full span. *A 10d common nail can take about 70# in shear, so
we're not talking about a lot of load, fasteners or concern.
Particularly since the OP's joist has been like that for decades.

One caveat - make it pretty. *Even if the repair is a straightforward
one and not structurally critical, a sketchy looking repair will raise
more flags when the house is sold. *So make it a neat, workmanlike
job.

Wouldn't lag screws be "gentler" on the tile floor above than either a
hammer or an impact wrench?

Depends on the tool and fastener. *A nail gun would be preferable to a
28 oz framing hammer in a dyslexic's hands, and an impact driver (not
wrench) driving a 2' or 3" screw would kick up about as much of a
problem as a fatass dog waddling around upstairs.

Drilling with a standard drill and using a rachet to drive the lags
wouldn't subject the grout or tile to any excessive vibration.

True, enough, just slow, and lags are problematic when they're
shallowly embedded. *Lag bolts have seen their day. *They had a good
run - let them pass in peace and don't make them linger.

R

"an impact driver driving a 2' or 3" screw"

I'm thinking that maybe a 2 foot screw would be a bit excessive for
this particular repair. ;-)

On Mon, 3 Jan 2011 12:06:52 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Jan 3, 2:22*pm, RicodJour wrote:
On Jan 3, 1:07*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:



On Jan 2, 11:28*am, RicodJour wrote:

I still use the term 'lag', also, when the state of the art has passed
them by. *Nowadays there would be very few situations where I'd reach
for a lag (and the drill to bore a pilot), instead of using self-
drilling structural screws that can be driven with an impact in a
couple of seconds.

In the OP's situation I'd rather have more smaller fasteners that were
easier to install, than a few larger ones that were more onerous. *In
the day sisters were simply nailed and they held just fine. *Now
everything is glued. *Either glue or structural screws would be fine
by themselves, but you need the clamping pressure of the screws if
you're going to glue, so...

Another thing about lags - their maximum diameter is restricted to 1/4
of the wood thickness that the business end is buried in - in this
case a 2x would allow a 3/8" lag. *Lags are notoriously crappy metal,
made in places where lag guilds never took off, and their load
capacity is not all that much greater than other choices such as
common nails and structural screws, which are easier to install.

There's really not a lot of load on a typical floor joist. *Figure a
12' span and 16" OC with a 40# live load, and that's about 640# total
for the full span. *A 10d common nail can take about 70# in shear, so
we're not talking about a lot of load, fasteners or concern.
Particularly since the OP's joist has been like that for decades.

One caveat - make it pretty. *Even if the repair is a straightforward
one and not structurally critical, a sketchy looking repair will raise
more flags when the house is sold. *So make it a neat, workmanlike
job.

Wouldn't lag screws be "gentler" on the tile floor above than either a
hammer or an impact wrench?

Depends on the tool and fastener. *A nail gun would be preferable to a
28 oz framing hammer in a dyslexic's hands, and an impact driver (not
wrench) driving a 2' or 3" screw would kick up about as much of a
problem as a fatass dog waddling around upstairs.

Drilling with a standard drill and using a rachet to drive the lags
wouldn't subject the grout or tile to any excessive vibration.

True, enough, just slow, and lags are problematic when they're
shallowly embedded. *Lag bolts have seen their day. *They had a good
run - let them pass in peace and don't make them linger.

R

"an impact driver driving a 2' or 3" screw"

I'm thinking that maybe a 2 foot screw would be a bit excessive for
this particular repair. ;-)

I'm thinking you're bragging now. ;-)

On Jan 3, 7:51*pm, "
wrote:
On Mon, 3 Jan 2011 12:06:52 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:









On Jan 3, 2:22 pm, RicodJour wrote:
On Jan 3, 1:07 pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:

On Jan 2, 11:28 am, RicodJour wrote:

I still use the term 'lag', also, when the state of the art has passed
them by. Nowadays there would be very few situations where I'd reach
for a lag (and the drill to bore a pilot), instead of using self-
drilling structural screws that can be driven with an impact in a
couple of seconds.

In the OP's situation I'd rather have more smaller fasteners that were
easier to install, than a few larger ones that were more onerous. In
the day sisters were simply nailed and they held just fine. Now
everything is glued. Either glue or structural screws would be fine
by themselves, but you need the clamping pressure of the screws if
you're going to glue, so...

Another thing about lags - their maximum diameter is restricted to 1/4
of the wood thickness that the business end is buried in - in this
case a 2x would allow a 3/8" lag. Lags are notoriously crappy metal,
made in places where lag guilds never took off, and their load
capacity is not all that much greater than other choices such as
common nails and structural screws, which are easier to install.

There's really not a lot of load on a typical floor joist. Figure a
12' span and 16" OC with a 40# live load, and that's about 640# total
for the full span. A 10d common nail can take about 70# in shear, so
we're not talking about a lot of load, fasteners or concern.
Particularly since the OP's joist has been like that for decades.

One caveat - make it pretty. Even if the repair is a straightforward
one and not structurally critical, a sketchy looking repair will raise
more flags when the house is sold. So make it a neat, workmanlike
job.

Wouldn't lag screws be "gentler" on the tile floor above than either a
hammer or an impact wrench?

Depends on the tool and fastener. A nail gun would be preferable to a
28 oz framing hammer in a dyslexic's hands, and an impact driver (not
wrench) driving a 2' or 3" screw would kick up about as much of a
problem as a fatass dog waddling around upstairs.

Drilling with a standard drill and using a rachet to drive the lags
wouldn't subject the grout or tile to any excessive vibration.

True, enough, just slow, and lags are problematic when they're
shallowly embedded. Lag bolts have seen their day. They had a good
run - let them pass in peace and don't make them linger.

R

"an impact driver driving a 2' or 3" screw"

I'm thinking that maybe a 2 foot screw would be a bit excessive for
this particular repair. ;-)

I'm thinking you're bragging now. *;-)

Only if I fold it in half.

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...
On Jan 2, 11:28 am, RicodJour wrote:
On Jan 2, 2:27 am, "benick" wrote:





"Mikepier" wrote in message

...

I'm redoing my basement and came across a 2X8 joist that was notched
at some point in the past.It is notched approx It is the last joist
before the outside sill plate. As you can see it is close to the
steel beam. What is the best way to repair it or strengthen it? I was
thinking put another piece of 2X8 next to it, one end resting on the
beam and extending a good 2 feet past the notch, fastening it with
bolts and washers. Any inputs appreciated.

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo...XHVg?feat=dire...

Considering you have a tile floor above it and it hasn't cracked I
wouldn't
mess with it to much..Glue and lag a couple of sisters if you'll sleep
better and move on...

I still use the term 'lag', also, when the state of the art has passed
them by. Nowadays there would be very few situations where I'd reach
for a lag (and the drill to bore a pilot), instead of using self-
drilling structural screws that can be driven with an impact in a
couple of seconds.

In the OP's situation I'd rather have more smaller fasteners that were
easier to install, than a few larger ones that were more onerous. In
the day sisters were simply nailed and they held just fine. Now
everything is glued. Either glue or structural screws would be fine
by themselves, but you need the clamping pressure of the screws if
you're going to glue, so...

Another thing about lags - their maximum diameter is restricted to 1/4
of the wood thickness that the business end is buried in - in this
case a 2x would allow a 3/8" lag. Lags are notoriously crappy metal,
made in places where lag guilds never took off, and their load
capacity is not all that much greater than other choices such as
common nails and structural screws, which are easier to install.

There's really not a lot of load on a typical floor joist. Figure a
12' span and 16" OC with a 40# live load, and that's about 640# total
for the full span. A 10d common nail can take about 70# in shear, so
we're not talking about a lot of load, fasteners or concern.
Particularly since the OP's joist has been like that for decades.

One caveat - make it pretty. Even if the repair is a straightforward
one and not structurally critical, a sketchy looking repair will raise
more flags when the house is sold. So make it a neat, workmanlike
job.

R- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Wouldn't lag screws be "gentler" on the tile floor above than either a
hammer or an impact wrench?

Drilling with a standard drill and using a rachet to drive the lags
wouldn't subject the grout or tile to any excessive vibration.

I'm just sayin'...



EXACTLY...

On Jan 6, 2:20*am, "benick" wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
On Jan 2, 11:28 am, RicodJour wrote:
On Jan 2, 2:27 am, "benick" wrote:
"Mikepier" wrote in message

I'm redoing my basement and came across a 2X8 joist that was notched
at some point in the past.It is notched approx It is the last joist
before the outside sill plate. As you can see it is close to the
steel beam. What is the best way to repair it or strengthen it? I was
thinking put another piece of 2X8 next to it, one end resting on the
beam and extending a good 2 feet past the notch, fastening it with
bolts and washers. Any inputs appreciated.

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo...XHVg?feat=dire...

Considering you have a tile floor above it and it hasn't cracked I
wouldn't
mess with it to much..Glue and lag a couple of sisters if you'll sleep
better and move on...

I still use the term 'lag', also, when the state of the art has passed
them by. Nowadays there would be very few situations where I'd reach
for a lag (and the drill to bore a pilot), instead of using self-
drilling structural screws that can be driven with an impact in a
couple of seconds.

In the OP's situation I'd rather have more smaller fasteners that were
easier to install, than a few larger ones that were more onerous. In
the day sisters were simply nailed and they held just fine. Now
everything is glued. Either glue or structural screws would be fine
by themselves, but you need the clamping pressure of the screws if
you're going to glue, so...

Another thing about lags - their maximum diameter is restricted to 1/4
of the wood thickness that the business end is buried in - in this
case a 2x would allow a 3/8" lag. Lags are notoriously crappy metal,
made in places where lag guilds never took off, and their load
capacity is not all that much greater than other choices such as
common nails and structural screws, which are easier to install.

There's really not a lot of load on a typical floor joist. Figure a
12' span and 16" OC with a 40# live load, and that's about 640# total
for the full span. A 10d common nail can take about 70# in shear, so
we're not talking about a lot of load, fasteners or concern.
Particularly since the OP's joist has been like that for decades.

One caveat - make it pretty. Even if the repair is a straightforward
one and not structurally critical, a sketchy looking repair will raise
more flags when the house is sold. So make it a neat, workmanlike
job.

Wouldn't lag screws be "gentler" on the tile floor above than either a
hammer or an impact wrench?

Drilling with a standard drill and using a rachet to drive the lags
wouldn't subject the grout or tile to any excessive vibration.

I'm just sayin'...

EXACTLY...

Exactly what? You feel that using an impact driver to drive some 3"
screws is going to break up the tile floor above? If you're that
worried about cracking I'm surprised you aren't suggesting that the
holes be drilled with an eggbeater drill and wooden dowels glued into
place. Why don't you do yourself and the OP a favor and see what sort
of shear load a 3/8" lag can hold embedded 1.5" .

Lags are a dead technology. Old timers in construction have a hard
time of letting go.

R