I'm redoing my basement and came across a 2X8 joist that was notched
at some point in the past.It is notched approx It is the last joist
before the outside sill plate. As you can see it is close to the
steel beam. What is the best way to repair it or strengthen it? I was
thinking put another piece of 2X8 next to it, one end resting on the
beam and extending a good 2 feet past the notch, fastening it with
bolts and washers. Any inputs appreciated.

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo...eat=directlink

On Dec 30, 9:44*pm, Mikepier wrote:
I'm redoing my basement and came across a 2X8 joist that was notched
at some point in the past.It is notched approx *It is the last joist
before the outside sill plate. As you can see it *is close to the
steel beam. What is the best way to repair it or strengthen it? I was
thinking put another piece of 2X8 next to it, one end resting on the
beam and extending a good 2 feet past the notch, fastening it with
bolts and washers. Any inputs appreciated.

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo...XHVg?feat=dire....

Your idea seems ok, you might want to raise the existing joist on the
side away from the steel I-beam about 1/4 inch before connecting the
parallel plate/joist as it will have a certain amount of "give"and by
raising the existing joist, putting the plate in and then removing the
raiser mechanism, the new pkate will have part of the load. Yoiu
could raise the existing joist using a jackpost or even a 2x4 shoved
under the joist at an angle and then moving the 2x4 to a more vertical
position by hammering it toward vertical. A string and weight next to
a ruler or even just a ruler can tell you when the existing joist is
raised up the 1/4 inch.

hr(bob) wrote:
On Dec 30, 9:44 pm, Mikepier wrote:
I'm redoing my basement and came across a 2X8 joist that was notched
at some point in the past.It is notched approx It is the last joist
before the outside sill plate. As you can see it is close to the
steel beam. What is the best way to repair it or strengthen it? I was
thinking put another piece of 2X8 next to it, one end resting on the
beam and extending a good 2 feet past the notch, fastening it with
bolts and washers. Any inputs appreciated.

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo...XHVg?feat=dire...

Your idea seems ok, you might want to raise the existing joist on the
side away from the steel I-beam about 1/4 inch before connecting the
parallel plate/joist as it will have a certain amount of "give"and by
raising the existing joist, putting the plate in and then removing the
raiser mechanism, the new pkate will have part of the load. Yoiu
could raise the existing joist using a jackpost or even a 2x4 shoved
under the joist at an angle and then moving the 2x4 to a more vertical
position by hammering it toward vertical. A string and weight next to
a ruler or even just a ruler can tell you when the existing joist is
raised up the 1/4 inch.



If you have a floor jack in your garage, you can use it and a 2x4 to
take the load off the existing joist before you sister it.

I fixed a broken rafter that way once in a poorly-built shed. Had
to jack up not only the broken rafter but the ones next to it to get
the roof nice and even again.

Use nails and glue instead of bolts. A bolt thru a hole will have
too much play even when you tighten it.

-Bob

Bob

On Dec 31, 4:11*am, zxcvbob wrote:
hr(bob) wrote:
On Dec 30, 9:44 pm, Mikepier wrote:
I'm redoing my basement and came across a 2X8 joist that was notched
at some point in the past.It is notched approx *It is the last joist
before the outside sill plate. As you can see it *is close to the
steel beam. What is the best way to repair it or strengthen it? I was
thinking put another piece of 2X8 next to it, one end resting on the
beam and extending a good 2 feet past the notch, fastening it with
bolts and washers. Any inputs appreciated.

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo...XHVg?feat=dire....

Your idea seems ok, you might want to raise the existing joist on the
side away from the steel I-beam about 1/4 inch before connecting the
parallel plate/joist as it will have a certain amount of "give"and by
raising the existing joist, putting the plate in and then removing the
raiser mechanism, the new pkate will have part of the load. *Yoiu
could raise the existing joist using a jackpost or even a 2x4 shoved
under the joist at an angle and then moving the 2x4 to a more vertical
position by hammering it toward vertical. *A string and weight next to
a ruler or even just a ruler can tell you when the existing joist is
raised up the 1/4 inch.

If you have a floor jack in your garage, you can use it and a 2x4 to
take the load off the existing joist before you sister it.

I fixed a broken rafter that way once in a poorly-built shed. *Had
to jack up not only the broken rafter but the ones next to it to get
the roof nice and even again.

Use nails and glue instead of bolts. *A bolt thru a hole will have
too much play even when you tighten it.

-Bob

Bob- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Or timber connecters on the bolts between the joist and your bolt on
piece. Such as these.
http://www.tecoproducts.co.uk/TimberConnectors.htm
Good idea to jack the joist up before tightening.

Hugely enhances the joint strength.

On Fri, 31 Dec 2010 02:12:34 -0800 (PST), harry
wrote:

On Dec 31, 4:11Â*am, zxcvbob wrote:
hr(bob) wrote:
On Dec 30, 9:44 pm, Mikepier wrote:
I'm redoing my basement and came across a 2X8 joist that was notched
at some point in the past.It is notched approx Â*It is the last joist
before the outside sill plate. As you can see it Â*is close to the
steel beam. What is the best way to repair it or strengthen it? I was
thinking put another piece of 2X8 next to it, one end resting on the
beam and extending a good 2 feet past the notch, fastening it with
bolts and washers. Any inputs appreciated.

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo...XHVg?feat=dire...

Your idea seems ok, you might want to raise the existing joist on the
side away from the steel I-beam about 1/4 inch before connecting the
parallel plate/joist as it will have a certain amount of "give"and by
raising the existing joist, putting the plate in and then removing the
raiser mechanism, the new pkate will have part of the load. Â*Yoiu
could raise the existing joist using a jackpost or even a 2x4 shoved
under the joist at an angle and then moving the 2x4 to a more vertical
position by hammering it toward vertical. Â*A string and weight next to
a ruler or even just a ruler can tell you when the existing joist is
raised up the 1/4 inch.

If you have a floor jack in your garage, you can use it and a 2x4 to
take the load off the existing joist before you sister it.

I fixed a broken rafter that way once in a poorly-built shed. Â*Had
to jack up not only the broken rafter but the ones next to it to get
the roof nice and even again.

Use nails and glue instead of bolts. Â*A bolt thru a hole will have
too much play even when you tighten it.

-Bob

Bob- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Or timber connecters on the bolts between the joist and your bolt on
piece. Such as these.
http://www.tecoproducts.co.uk/TimberConnectors.htm
Good idea to jack the joist up before tightening.

Hugely enhances the joint strength.
Almost as effective, and a lot less work, is to lay a 2X4 under the
joist, well slathered with glue, and using a 4X4 on a jack, or a
jackpost (I would NEVER use a 2X4 on end for that kind of jacking).
jack the joist up so it is inline with the rest of the joists and
spike the 2X4 to the bottom with a row of spikes, spaced about 6"
apart.
You would be building a "spar" or "truss" as strong as the original
beam by using the 2X4 as a "spar cap" in tension.

Whoever did that notch sure didn't have any concept of what they were
doing!!!

wrote:
On Fri, 31 Dec 2010 02:12:34 -0800 (PST), harry
wrote:

On Dec 31, 4:11 am, zxcvbob wrote:
hr(bob) wrote:
On Dec 30, 9:44 pm, Mikepier wrote:
I'm redoing my basement and came across a 2X8 joist that was notched
at some point in the past.It is notched approx It is the last joist
before the outside sill plate. As you can see it is close to the
steel beam. What is the best way to repair it or strengthen it? I was
thinking put another piece of 2X8 next to it, one end resting on the
beam and extending a good 2 feet past the notch, fastening it with
bolts and washers. Any inputs appreciated.
http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo...XHVg?feat=dire...
Your idea seems ok, you might want to raise the existing joist on the
side away from the steel I-beam about 1/4 inch before connecting the
parallel plate/joist as it will have a certain amount of "give"and by
raising the existing joist, putting the plate in and then removing the
raiser mechanism, the new pkate will have part of the load. Yoiu
could raise the existing joist using a jackpost or even a 2x4 shoved
under the joist at an angle and then moving the 2x4 to a more vertical
position by hammering it toward vertical. A string and weight next to
a ruler or even just a ruler can tell you when the existing joist is
raised up the 1/4 inch.
If you have a floor jack in your garage, you can use it and a 2x4 to
take the load off the existing joist before you sister it.

I fixed a broken rafter that way once in a poorly-built shed. Had
to jack up not only the broken rafter but the ones next to it to get
the roof nice and even again.

Use nails and glue instead of bolts. A bolt thru a hole will have
too much play even when you tighten it.

-Bob

Bob- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
Or timber connecters on the bolts between the joist and your bolt on
piece. Such as these.
http://www.tecoproducts.co.uk/TimberConnectors.htm
Good idea to jack the joist up before tightening.

Hugely enhances the joint strength.
Almost as effective, and a lot less work, is to lay a 2X4 under the
joist, well slathered with glue, and using a 4X4 on a jack, or a
jackpost (I would NEVER use a 2X4 on end for that kind of jacking).
jack the joist up so it is inline with the rest of the joists and
spike the 2X4 to the bottom with a row of spikes, spaced about 6"
apart.
You would be building a "spar" or "truss" as strong as the original
beam by using the 2X4 as a "spar cap" in tension.

Whoever did that notch sure didn't have any concept of what they were
doing!!!


Or use a piece of 1/4" steel flat bar to close up the bottom. Put
some tension on the steel if you can. But even without tension, it
would hold the joist together if it ever decides to break. And most
importantly, it would *look* a lot safer than what you have now :-)

-Bob

On Dec 31, 11:52*am, wrote:

Whoever did that notch sure didn't have any concept of what they were
doing!!!

They knew exactly what they were doing. They knew they didn't give a
damn and wanted to be finished as quickly as possible.

R

On Dec 30, 10:44*pm, Mikepier wrote:
I'm redoing my basement and came across a 2X8 joist that was notched
at some point in the past.It is notched approx *It is the last joist
before the outside sill plate. As you can see it *is close to the
steel beam. What is the best way to repair it or strengthen it? I was
thinking put another piece of 2X8 next to it, one end resting on the
beam and extending a good 2 feet past the notch, fastening it with
bolts and washers. Any inputs appreciated.

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo...XHVg?feat=dire....

If you can....

Plan A---- run another joist the entire length and rest it on both
ends at the same point the existing joist is resting. Basically you're
replacing the existing joists load.

Plan B --- I would get a metal plate cut and drilled to span the gap,
then bolt it to the existing joist.

Plan C ---- What you want to do. :-)

Caution... If you jack up the joist, be sure to check the floor above
to see of any raising of the floor will effect anything. Sometimes
raising only a fraction of an inch can make doors "out of plumb",
therefore affecting their operation.

Hank

On Dec 31, 7:19*am, Hank wrote:
On Dec 30, 10:44*pm, Mikepier wrote:

I'm redoing my basement and came across a 2X8 joist that was notched
at some point in the past.It is notched approx *It is the last joist
before the outside sill plate. As you can see it *is close to the
steel beam. What is the best way to repair it or strengthen it? I was
thinking put another piece of 2X8 next to it, one end resting on the
beam and extending a good 2 feet past the notch, fastening it with
bolts and washers. Any inputs appreciated.

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo...XHVg?feat=dire....

If you can....

Plan A---- run another joist the entire length and rest it on both
ends at the same point the existing joist is resting. Basically you're
replacing the existing joists load.

Plan B --- I would get a metal plate cut and drilled to span the gap,
then bolt it to the existing joist.

Plan C ---- What you want to do. :-)

Caution... If you jack up the joist, be sure to check the floor above
to see of any raising of the floor will effect anything. Sometimes
raising only a fraction of an inch can make doors "out of plumb",
therefore affecting their operation.

Hank

I have my kitchen floor above with ceramic tiles. Thats my only
concern about jacking up the joist with tiles cracking, getting loose.

I can't run another full length joist, too many obstructions.

Rather than use bolts, can I use lag screws?

On Dec 31, 11:39*am, Mikepier wrote:
On Dec 31, 7:19*am, Hank wrote:





On Dec 30, 10:44*pm, Mikepier wrote:

I'm redoing my basement and came across a 2X8 joist that was notched
at some point in the past.It is notched approx *It is the last joist
before the outside sill plate. As you can see it *is close to the
steel beam. What is the best way to repair it or strengthen it? I was
thinking put another piece of 2X8 next to it, one end resting on the
beam and extending a good 2 feet past the notch, fastening it with
bolts and washers. Any inputs appreciated.

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo...XHVg?feat=dire...

If you can....

Plan A---- run another joist the entire length and rest it on both
ends at the same point the existing joist is resting. Basically you're
replacing the existing joists load.

Plan B --- I would get a metal plate cut and drilled to span the gap,
then bolt it to the existing joist.

Plan C ---- What you want to do. :-)

Caution... If you jack up the joist, be sure to check the floor above
to see of any raising of the floor will effect anything. Sometimes
raising only a fraction of an inch can make doors "out of plumb",
therefore affecting their operation.

Hank

I have my kitchen floor above with ceramic tiles. Thats my only
concern about jacking up the joist with tiles cracking, getting loose.

I can't run another full length joist, too many obstructions.

Rather than use bolts, can I use lag screws?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I don't see why lag screws wouldn't work, just make sure you pre-drill
the correct size hole.

I lagged some "modern-day" 2 x 4's to the 50 YO 2 x 4 studs in my
garage for shelving. New wood to new wood was a breeze but I snapped
the heads off a couple of lags using the same sized hole in the older
wood. It was much, much harder and required a slightly larger hole.

I would also make sure there were some threads in both pieces of wood.
I don't think that you would want all smooth shaft in either piece as
the threads would hold everything in place better.

Mikepier wrote:

Plan A---- run another joist the entire length and rest it on both
ends at the same point the existing joist is resting. Basically
you're replacing the existing joists load.

Plan B --- I would get a metal plate cut and drilled to span the gap,
then bolt it to the existing joist.

Plan C ---- What you want to do. :-)

Caution... If you jack up the joist, be sure to check the floor above
to see of any raising of the floor will effect anything. Sometimes
raising only a fraction of an inch can make doors "out of plumb",
therefore affecting their operation.

Hank

I have my kitchen floor above with ceramic tiles. Thats my only
concern about jacking up the joist with tiles cracking, getting loose.

I can't run another full length joist, too many obstructions.

Rather than use bolts, can I use lag screws?

Lag screws would be better than bolts. Bolts have a small, but significant,
wobble-factor.

Don't forget to slather the sucker with about a quart of glue. Maybe some
strapping...

On Dec 31, 12:29*pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
Mikepier wrote:


Rather than use bolts, can I use lag screws?

Lag screws would be better than bolts. Bolts have a small, but significant,
wobble-factor.

At a maximum inch and a half embedded the lag would not be nearly as
strong as a bolt through a correctly sized hole. Not even remotely.

R

On Dec 31, 1:23*pm, RicodJour wrote:
On Dec 31, 12:29*pm, "HeyBub" wrote:

Mikepier wrote:

Rather than use bolts, can I use lag screws?

Lag screws would be better than bolts. Bolts have a small, but significant,
wobble-factor.

At a maximum inch and a half embedded the lag would not be nearly as
strong as a bolt through a correctly sized hole. *Not even remotely.

R

But in this case would it matter? Serious question, I'm no structural
engineer.

With a 2 x 8 sistered across the notch, extending let's say 2 feet on
each side, and then glued and lagged in, let's say, 4 (6?) places on
both sides of the notch wouldn't that be more than enough to fix the
current problem?

Would bolts really add anything worth considering or would they amount
to overkill?

Of course, that's not to say that bolts wouldn't actually be easier to
install.

On Dec 31, 11:39*am, Mikepier wrote:


If you can....

Plan A---- run another joist the entire length and rest it on both
ends at the same point the existing joist is resting. Basically you're
replacing the existing joists load.

Plan B --- I would get a metal plate cut and drilled to span the gap,
then bolt it to the existing joist.

Plan C ---- What you want to do. :-)

Caution... If you jack up the joist, be sure to check the floor above
to see of any raising of the floor will effect anything. Sometimes
raising only a fraction of an inch can make doors "out of plumb",
therefore affecting their operation.

Hank

I have my kitchen floor above with ceramic tiles. Thats my only
concern about jacking up the joist with tiles cracking, getting loose.

I can't run another full length joist, too many obstructions.

Rather than use bolts, can I use lag screws?-

Whatever you do will be better than what you have. Screws should be
ok. Put constrcution adhesive between the boards.

Hank

"Mikepier" wrote in message
...
I'm redoing my basement and came across a 2X8 joist that was notched
at some point in the past.It is notched approx It is the last joist
before the outside sill plate. As you can see it is close to the
steel beam. What is the best way to repair it or strengthen it? I was
thinking put another piece of 2X8 next to it, one end resting on the
beam and extending a good 2 feet past the notch, fastening it with
bolts and washers. Any inputs appreciated.

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo...eat=directlink


That sure is a scary picture. Just to make you think.

How long has it been that way?
What problems has it caused?
For what reason was it cut?

Do you really need to do anything?


Colbyt

That sure is a scary picture. Just to make you think.

How long has it been that way?

At least 30 years.

What problems has it caused?

None that I'm aware of

For what reason was it cut?

It was notched for a 2" PVC pipe that went outside to the sprinkler
system. Below the picture used to be a pump with a pipe going in the
ground.

Do you really need to do anything?

I don't know. I figured now I had the walls opened, I would try to at
least do something.

On Fri, 31 Dec 2010 08:49:57 -0800 (PST), Mikepier
wrote:


That sure is a scary picture. Just to make you think.

How long has it been that way?

At least 30 years.

What problems has it caused?

None that I'm aware of

For what reason was it cut?

It was notched for a 2" PVC pipe that went outside to the sprinkler
system. Below the picture used to be a pump with a pipe going in the
ground.

Do you really need to do anything?

I don't know. I figured now I had the walls opened, I would try to at
least do something.

You say you have the walls opened. If this is in a wall, simply support it on
both sides with studs.

If it hasn't gone anywhere in 30 years, it's unlikely to now. However, I'd do
something about it too.

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 31 Dec 2010 08:49:57 -0800 (PST), Mikepier

wrote:


That sure is a scary picture. Just to make you think.

How long has it been that way?

At least 30 years.

What problems has it caused?

None that I'm aware of

For what reason was it cut?

It was notched for a 2" PVC pipe that went outside to the sprinkler
system. Below the picture used to be a pump with a pipe going in the
ground.

Do you really need to do anything?

I don't know. I figured now I had the walls opened, I would try to at
least do something.

You say you have the walls opened. If this is in a wall, simply support
it on
both sides with studs.

If it hasn't gone anywhere in 30 years, it's unlikely to now. However,
I'd do
something about it too.

For Mike,

After 30 years it has done all it is likely to do, but I agree with both
you, I would scab it on each side if possible extending 18-24" past the
notch. Thereafter I would forget about it.


--
Colbyt
Please come visit http://www.househomerepair.com

On 12/31/2010 9:20 AM, Colbyt wrote:
wrote in message
...
I'm redoing my basement and came across a 2X8 joist that was notched
at some point in the past.It is notched approx It is the last joist
before the outside sill plate. As you can see it is close to the
steel beam. What is the best way to repair it or strengthen it? I was
thinking put another piece of 2X8 next to it, one end resting on the
beam and extending a good 2 feet past the notch, fastening it with
bolts and washers. Any inputs appreciated.

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo...eat=directlink


That sure is a scary picture. Just to make you think.

How long has it been that way?
What problems has it caused?
For what reason was it cut?

Do you really need to do anything?


Colbyt


That close to center beam, and to the fully-supported joist on outside
wall, unlikely to fail catastrophically. But just on general principles,
I'd sister it anyway. From over the beam to maybe 18-24 inches past the
notch. A couple 16s to baste it in place, then some staggered carriage
bolts on each end. If that isn't possible, then a 2x4 or steel strap
lagged into the bottom of the joist to take the stress off of the cut
section. Unless a 4-foot level on the floor upstairs shows any sag, I
wouldn't even bother to jack it. Hard to say what it was for, without
inspecting the space for other clues, like on the outside wall. Maybe a
long-gone oil fill line?

I've seen worse, in more critical locations. Held fine for years, then
one day somebody walks through carrying a piano, and 'crack'. Carpenters
have long been of the opinion that plumbers and electricians should be
prohibited by law from owning sawzalls.

--
aem sends...

On Dec 30, 10:44*pm, Mikepier wrote:
I'm redoing my basement and came across a 2X8 joist that was notched
at some point in the past.It is notched approx *It is the last joist
before the outside sill plate. As you can see it *is close to the
steel beam. What is the best way to repair it or strengthen it? I was
thinking put another piece of 2X8 next to it, one end resting on the
beam and extending a good 2 feet past the notch, fastening it with
bolts and washers. Any inputs appreciated.

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo...XHVg?feat=dire....

I would move.

You have far too many different colored objects in that area for any
repair of the joist to be effective.

On Dec 30, 10:44*pm, Mikepier wrote:
As you can see it *is close to the
steel beam.

By this, do you mean that the gray object slightly closer to the
camera than the notched beam is a structural steel beam? If it's a
full length beam that the flooring above sits on, then I'm not sure
the wood beam is worth worrying about. I would ask for other opinions
after answering that question though. I'm no engineer.

On Dec 31, 12:09*pm, Larry Fishel wrote:
On Dec 30, 10:44*pm, Mikepier wrote:

As you can see it *is close to the
steel beam.

By this, do you mean that the gray object slightly closer to the
camera than the notched beam is a structural steel beam? If it's a
full length beam that the flooring above sits on, then I'm not sure
the wood beam is worth worrying about. I would ask for other opinions
after answering that question though. I'm no engineer.

Yes that is a steel beam spanning the center of the basement with
joists running perpendicular.

On Dec 31, 1:11*pm, Mikepier wrote:
On Dec 31, 12:09*pm, Larry Fishel wrote:

On Dec 30, 10:44*pm, Mikepier wrote:

As you can see it *is close to the
steel beam.

By this, do you mean that the gray object slightly closer to the
camera than the notched beam is a structural steel beam? If it's a
full length beam that the flooring above sits on, then I'm not sure
the wood beam is worth worrying about. I would ask for other opinions
after answering that question though. I'm no engineer.

Yes that is a steel beam spanning the center of the basement with
joists running perpendicular.

I'm confused.

Is the "beam" you are referring to in the lower left of the picture
right above the yellow romex that loops to bottom of the picture?

If so, why does it look like wood? It looks like it's a piece of wood
with possibly a steel plate attached to the face of it.

Not that that has anything to do with the repair of the joist. It's
just that it doesn't look like a "beam", at least not to me.

Am I missing something?

I'm confused.

Is the "beam" you are referring to in the lower left of the picture
right above the yellow romex that loops to bottom of the picture?

If so, why does it look like wood? It looks like it's a piece of wood
with possibly a steel plate attached to the face of it.

Not that that has anything to do with the repair of the joist. It's
just that it doesn't look like a "beam", at least not to me.

Am I missing something?

There is a 2X4 resting flat on top of the I-beam that runs the whole
length.

On Dec 31, 1:40*pm, Mikepier wrote:
I'm confused.

Is the "beam" you are referring to in the lower left of the picture
right above the yellow romex that loops to bottom of the picture?

If so, why does it look like wood? It looks like it's a piece of wood
with possibly a steel plate attached to the face of it.

Not that that has anything to do with the repair of the joist. It's
just that it doesn't look like a "beam", at least not to me.

Am I missing something?

There is a 2X4 resting flat on top of the I-beam that runs the whole
length.

Oh...I see it now. It's an I-beam and that bundle of wires runs under
the top horizontal.

I didn't notice the rust on the vertical part until just now.

Thanks!

I wonder why they used a 2 x 4 on top of it. Just seems like something
that could crush of a joist was positioned on a soft spot. In my house
they set the ends of the beam in a bed of concrete to get it to a
height where the joists rest right on the beam.

On Dec 31 2010, 1:11*pm, Mikepier wrote:
On Dec 31, 12:09*pm, Larry Fishel wrote:

On Dec 30, 10:44*pm, Mikepier wrote:

As you can see it *is close to the
steel beam.

By this, do you mean that the gray object slightly closer to the
camera than the notched beam is a structural steel beam? If it's a
full length beam that the flooring above sits on, then I'm not sure
the wood beam is worth worrying about. I would ask for other opinions
after answering that question though. I'm no engineer.

Yes that is a steel beam spanning the center of the basement with
joists running perpendicular.

I should have been more clear. I meant the gray object at the top of
the photo that seems to be running parallel to the notched beam.

I should have been more clear. I meant the gray object at the top of
the photo that seems to be running parallel to the notched beam.

HVAC duct running inside the joists

On Dec 30, 10:44*pm, Mikepier wrote:

One more thing.....

If you can sandwich a piece of plywood ( the thicker the better, the
longer the better) between the 2 boards with adhesive, that will fix
your problem for sure.

Hank

When you say adhesive, is liquid nails good?

On Dec 31, 1:07*pm, Mikepier wrote:
When you say adhesive, is liquid nails good?

Any polyurethane construction adhesive would do.

R

On Dec 31, 12:23*pm, RicodJour wrote:
On Dec 31, 1:07*pm, Mikepier wrote:

When you say adhesive, is liquid nails good?

Any polyurethane construction adhesive would do.

R

A two part epoxy is even better. Sister the joist on both sides with
3/4" plywood of substantial length and the lost strength should be
totally recovered.

Joe

On Dec 31, 1:07*pm, Mikepier wrote:
When you say adhesive, is liquid nails good?

Yes, that'll work. Don't be shy with it.

Hank

"Mikepier" wrote in message
...
I'm redoing my basement and came across a 2X8 joist that was notched
at some point in the past.It is notched approx It is the last joist
before the outside sill plate. As you can see it is close to the
steel beam. What is the best way to repair it or strengthen it? I was
thinking put another piece of 2X8 next to it, one end resting on the
beam and extending a good 2 feet past the notch, fastening it with
bolts and washers. Any inputs appreciated.

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo...eat=directlink



Considering you have a tile floor above it and it hasn't cracked I wouldn't
mess with it to much..Glue and lag a couple of sisters if you'll sleep
better and move on...

On Jan 2, 2:27*am, "benick" wrote:


Considering you have a tile floor above it and it hasn't cracked I wouldn't
mess with it to much..Glue and lag a couple of sisters if you'll sleep
better and move on...

I sorta agree with you. It's not a great big deal and many are over
thinking this. My house, which is 7 years old has floor joists made
out of two 2x4's laying flat with 1/2" osb between them vertically. I
am sure if he attaches a piece of plywood with just some glue and some
8d nails, it would be fine and hold any load one will see in a normal
house, even a piano.

Hank

On Jan 2, 2:27*am, "benick" wrote:
"Mikepier" wrote in message

...

I'm redoing my basement and came across a 2X8 joist that was notched
at some point in the past.It is notched approx *It is the last joist
before the outside sill plate. As you can see it *is close to the
steel beam. What is the best way to repair it or strengthen it? I was
thinking put another piece of 2X8 next to it, one end resting on the
beam and extending a good 2 feet past the notch, fastening it with
bolts and washers. Any inputs appreciated.

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo...XHVg?feat=dire....

Considering you have a tile floor above it and it hasn't cracked I wouldn't
mess with it to much..Glue and lag a couple of sisters if you'll sleep
better and move on...

I still use the term 'lag', also, when the state of the art has passed
them by. Nowadays there would be very few situations where I'd reach
for a lag (and the drill to bore a pilot), instead of using self-
drilling structural screws that can be driven with an impact in a
couple of seconds.

In the OP's situation I'd rather have more smaller fasteners that were
easier to install, than a few larger ones that were more onerous. In
the day sisters were simply nailed and they held just fine. Now
everything is glued. Either glue or structural screws would be fine
by themselves, but you need the clamping pressure of the screws if
you're going to glue, so...

Another thing about lags - their maximum diameter is restricted to 1/4
of the wood thickness that the business end is buried in - in this
case a 2x would allow a 3/8" lag. Lags are notoriously crappy metal,
made in places where lag guilds never took off, and their load
capacity is not all that much greater than other choices such as
common nails and structural screws, which are easier to install.

There's really not a lot of load on a typical floor joist. Figure a
12' span and 16" OC with a 40# live load, and that's about 640# total
for the full span. A 10d common nail can take about 70# in shear, so
we're not talking about a lot of load, fasteners or concern.
Particularly since the OP's joist has been like that for decades.

One caveat - make it pretty. Even if the repair is a straightforward
one and not structurally critical, a sketchy looking repair will raise
more flags when the house is sold. So make it a neat, workmanlike
job.

R

"RicodJour" wrote in message
...
On Jan 2, 2:27 am, "benick" wrote:
"Mikepier" wrote in message

...

I'm redoing my basement and came across a 2X8 joist that was notched
at some point in the past.It is notched approx It is the last joist
before the outside sill plate. As you can see it is close to the
steel beam. What is the best way to repair it or strengthen it? I was
thinking put another piece of 2X8 next to it, one end resting on the
beam and extending a good 2 feet past the notch, fastening it with
bolts and washers. Any inputs appreciated.

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo...XHVg?feat=dire...

Considering you have a tile floor above it and it hasn't cracked I
wouldn't
mess with it to much..Glue and lag a couple of sisters if you'll sleep
better and move on...

I still use the term 'lag', also, when the state of the art has passed
them by. Nowadays there would be very few situations where I'd reach
for a lag (and the drill to bore a pilot), instead of using self-
drilling structural screws that can be driven with an impact in a
couple of seconds.

In the OP's situation I'd rather have more smaller fasteners that were
easier to install, than a few larger ones that were more onerous. In
the day sisters were simply nailed and they held just fine. Now
everything is glued. Either glue or structural screws would be fine
by themselves, but you need the clamping pressure of the screws if
you're going to glue, so...

Another thing about lags - their maximum diameter is restricted to 1/4
of the wood thickness that the business end is buried in - in this
case a 2x would allow a 3/8" lag. Lags are notoriously crappy metal,
made in places where lag guilds never took off, and their load
capacity is not all that much greater than other choices such as
common nails and structural screws, which are easier to install.

There's really not a lot of load on a typical floor joist. Figure a
12' span and 16" OC with a 40# live load, and that's about 640# total
for the full span. A 10d common nail can take about 70# in shear, so
we're not talking about a lot of load, fasteners or concern.
Particularly since the OP's joist has been like that for decades.

One caveat - make it pretty. Even if the repair is a straightforward
one and not structurally critical, a sketchy looking repair will raise
more flags when the house is sold. So make it a neat, workmanlike
job.

R


Again more over thinking and less reading...The OP said it will be buried in
a wall..He has a tile floor above it that hasn't cracked nor does he want it
too by doing to much ...

On Jan 3, 1:50*am, "benick" wrote:
"RicodJour" wrote in message

...
On Jan 2, 2:27 am, "benick" wrote:



"Mikepier" wrote in message

....

I'm redoing my basement and came across a 2X8 joist that was notched
at some point in the past.It is notched approx It is the last joist
before the outside sill plate. As you can see it is close to the
steel beam. What is the best way to repair it or strengthen it? I was
thinking put another piece of 2X8 next to it, one end resting on the
beam and extending a good 2 feet past the notch, fastening it with
bolts and washers. Any inputs appreciated.

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo...XHVg?feat=dire...

Considering you have a tile floor above it and it hasn't cracked I
wouldn't
mess with it to much..Glue and lag a couple of sisters if you'll sleep
better and move on...

I still use the term 'lag', also, when the state of the art has passed
them by. *Nowadays there would be very few situations where I'd reach
for a lag (and the drill to bore a pilot), instead of using self-
drilling structural screws that can be driven with an impact in a
couple of seconds.

In the OP's situation I'd rather have more smaller fasteners that were
easier to install, than a few larger ones that were more onerous. *In
the day sisters were simply nailed and they held just fine. *Now
everything is glued. *Either glue or structural screws would be fine
by themselves, but you need the clamping pressure of the screws if
you're going to glue, so...

Another thing about lags - their maximum diameter is restricted to 1/4
of the wood thickness that the business end is buried in - in this
case a 2x would allow a 3/8" lag. *Lags are notoriously crappy metal,
made in places where lag guilds never took off, and their load
capacity is not all that much greater than other choices such as
common nails and structural screws, which are easier to install.

There's really not a lot of load on a typical floor joist. *Figure a
12' span and 16" OC with a 40# live load, and that's about 640# total
for the full span. *A 10d common nail can take about 70# in shear, so
we're not talking about a lot of load, fasteners or concern.
Particularly since the OP's joist has been like that for decades.

One caveat - make it pretty. *Even if the repair is a straightforward
one and not structurally critical, a sketchy looking repair will raise
more flags when the house is sold. *So make it a neat, workmanlike
job.


Again more over thinking and less reading...The OP said it will be buried in
a wall..He has a tile floor above it that hasn't cracked nor does he want it
too by doing to much ...

The joist will be buried inside a wall...huh?

Another question - you believe that knowing the loads involved is a
liability?

If he doesn't jack the joist more than just enough to take the load
off, there's zero chance the repair work will crack the tile floor.

R

On Jan 2, 11:28*am, RicodJour wrote:
On Jan 2, 2:27*am, "benick" wrote:





"Mikepier" wrote in message

....

I'm redoing my basement and came across a 2X8 joist that was notched
at some point in the past.It is notched approx *It is the last joist
before the outside sill plate. As you can see it *is close to the
steel beam. What is the best way to repair it or strengthen it? I was
thinking put another piece of 2X8 next to it, one end resting on the
beam and extending a good 2 feet past the notch, fastening it with
bolts and washers. Any inputs appreciated.

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo...XHVg?feat=dire...

Considering you have a tile floor above it and it hasn't cracked I wouldn't
mess with it to much..Glue and lag a couple of sisters if you'll sleep
better and move on...

I still use the term 'lag', also, when the state of the art has passed
them by. *Nowadays there would be very few situations where I'd reach
for a lag (and the drill to bore a pilot), instead of using self-
drilling structural screws that can be driven with an impact in a
couple of seconds.

In the OP's situation I'd rather have more smaller fasteners that were
easier to install, than a few larger ones that were more onerous. *In
the day sisters were simply nailed and they held just fine. *Now
everything is glued. *Either glue or structural screws would be fine
by themselves, but you need the clamping pressure of the screws if
you're going to glue, so...

Another thing about lags - their maximum diameter is restricted to 1/4
of the wood thickness that the business end is buried in - in this
case a 2x would allow a 3/8" lag. *Lags are notoriously crappy metal,
made in places where lag guilds never took off, and their load
capacity is not all that much greater than other choices such as
common nails and structural screws, which are easier to install.

There's really not a lot of load on a typical floor joist. *Figure a
12' span and 16" OC with a 40# live load, and that's about 640# total
for the full span. *A 10d common nail can take about 70# in shear, so
we're not talking about a lot of load, fasteners or concern.
Particularly since the OP's joist has been like that for decades.

One caveat - make it pretty. *Even if the repair is a straightforward
one and not structurally critical, a sketchy looking repair will raise
more flags when the house is sold. *So make it a neat, workmanlike
job.

R- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Wouldn't lag screws be "gentler" on the tile floor above than either a
hammer or an impact wrench?

Drilling with a standard drill and using a rachet to drive the lags
wouldn't subject the grout or tile to any excessive vibration.

I'm just sayin'...

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...
On Jan 2, 11:28 am, RicodJour wrote:
On Jan 2, 2:27 am, "benick" wrote:





"Mikepier" wrote in message

...

I'm redoing my basement and came across a 2X8 joist that was notched
at some point in the past.It is notched approx It is the last joist
before the outside sill plate. As you can see it is close to the
steel beam. What is the best way to repair it or strengthen it? I was
thinking put another piece of 2X8 next to it, one end resting on the
beam and extending a good 2 feet past the notch, fastening it with
bolts and washers. Any inputs appreciated.

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo...XHVg?feat=dire...

Considering you have a tile floor above it and it hasn't cracked I
wouldn't
mess with it to much..Glue and lag a couple of sisters if you'll sleep
better and move on...

I still use the term 'lag', also, when the state of the art has passed
them by. Nowadays there would be very few situations where I'd reach
for a lag (and the drill to bore a pilot), instead of using self-
drilling structural screws that can be driven with an impact in a
couple of seconds.

In the OP's situation I'd rather have more smaller fasteners that were
easier to install, than a few larger ones that were more onerous. In
the day sisters were simply nailed and they held just fine. Now
everything is glued. Either glue or structural screws would be fine
by themselves, but you need the clamping pressure of the screws if
you're going to glue, so...

Another thing about lags - their maximum diameter is restricted to 1/4
of the wood thickness that the business end is buried in - in this
case a 2x would allow a 3/8" lag. Lags are notoriously crappy metal,
made in places where lag guilds never took off, and their load
capacity is not all that much greater than other choices such as
common nails and structural screws, which are easier to install.

There's really not a lot of load on a typical floor joist. Figure a
12' span and 16" OC with a 40# live load, and that's about 640# total
for the full span. A 10d common nail can take about 70# in shear, so
we're not talking about a lot of load, fasteners or concern.
Particularly since the OP's joist has been like that for decades.

One caveat - make it pretty. Even if the repair is a straightforward
one and not structurally critical, a sketchy looking repair will raise
more flags when the house is sold. So make it a neat, workmanlike
job.

R- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Wouldn't lag screws be "gentler" on the tile floor above than either a
hammer or an impact wrench?

Drilling with a standard drill and using a rachet to drive the lags
wouldn't subject the grout or tile to any excessive vibration.

I'm just sayin'...



EXACTLY...

On Jan 6, 2:20*am, "benick" wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
On Jan 2, 11:28 am, RicodJour wrote:
On Jan 2, 2:27 am, "benick" wrote:
"Mikepier" wrote in message

I'm redoing my basement and came across a 2X8 joist that was notched
at some point in the past.It is notched approx It is the last joist
before the outside sill plate. As you can see it is close to the
steel beam. What is the best way to repair it or strengthen it? I was
thinking put another piece of 2X8 next to it, one end resting on the
beam and extending a good 2 feet past the notch, fastening it with
bolts and washers. Any inputs appreciated.

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo...XHVg?feat=dire...

Considering you have a tile floor above it and it hasn't cracked I
wouldn't
mess with it to much..Glue and lag a couple of sisters if you'll sleep
better and move on...

I still use the term 'lag', also, when the state of the art has passed
them by. Nowadays there would be very few situations where I'd reach
for a lag (and the drill to bore a pilot), instead of using self-
drilling structural screws that can be driven with an impact in a
couple of seconds.

In the OP's situation I'd rather have more smaller fasteners that were
easier to install, than a few larger ones that were more onerous. In
the day sisters were simply nailed and they held just fine. Now
everything is glued. Either glue or structural screws would be fine
by themselves, but you need the clamping pressure of the screws if
you're going to glue, so...

Another thing about lags - their maximum diameter is restricted to 1/4
of the wood thickness that the business end is buried in - in this
case a 2x would allow a 3/8" lag. Lags are notoriously crappy metal,
made in places where lag guilds never took off, and their load
capacity is not all that much greater than other choices such as
common nails and structural screws, which are easier to install.

There's really not a lot of load on a typical floor joist. Figure a
12' span and 16" OC with a 40# live load, and that's about 640# total
for the full span. A 10d common nail can take about 70# in shear, so
we're not talking about a lot of load, fasteners or concern.
Particularly since the OP's joist has been like that for decades.

One caveat - make it pretty. Even if the repair is a straightforward
one and not structurally critical, a sketchy looking repair will raise
more flags when the house is sold. So make it a neat, workmanlike
job.

Wouldn't lag screws be "gentler" on the tile floor above than either a
hammer or an impact wrench?

Drilling with a standard drill and using a rachet to drive the lags
wouldn't subject the grout or tile to any excessive vibration.

I'm just sayin'...

EXACTLY...

Exactly what? You feel that using an impact driver to drive some 3"
screws is going to break up the tile floor above? If you're that
worried about cracking I'm surprised you aren't suggesting that the
holes be drilled with an eggbeater drill and wooden dowels glued into
place. Why don't you do yourself and the OP a favor and see what sort
of shear load a 3/8" lag can hold embedded 1.5" .

Lags are a dead technology. Old timers in construction have a hard
time of letting go.

R