Going through the quote process for my new furnace and AC and came up
with two questions:

1 - Are new refrigerant lines required or recommended? The existing
system is 26 years old, still working
no burned out compressor, etc. One company says they have to be
replaced, other I didn't talk with
on that specific subject, but their quote calls out flushing and re-
using the existing ones.

2 - The new furnace will be direct vent, so it leaves the gas water
heater orphaned on the existing chimney that was shared with the gas
furnace. Is a chimney liner required or recommended? Chimney is
clay flue lined, most of chimney is entirely within the house, except
the last 5 ft or so which is in a wood siding chase above the roof
line. Don't have the exact measurements of the flue without going on
the roof, but guessing it's about 9 X 6 or so. Again, one company
says must do, the other says not needed.

On Dec 10, 7:45*am, wrote:
Going through the quote process for my new furnace and AC and came up
with two questions:

1 - Are new refrigerant lines required or recommended? *The existing
system is 26 years old, still working
no burned out compressor, etc. *One company says they have to be
replaced, other I didn't talk with
on that specific subject, but their quote calls out flushing and re-
using the existing ones.

2 - *The new furnace will be direct vent, so it leaves the gas water
heater orphaned on the existing chimney that was shared with the gas
furnace. *Is a chimney liner required or recommended? * Chimney is
clay flue lined, most of chimney is entirely within the house, except
the last 5 ft or so which is in a wood siding chase above the roof
line. *Don't have the exact measurements of the flue without going on
the roof, but guessing it's about 9 X 6 or so. *Again, one company
says must do, the other says not needed.

1. Why are you replacing your HVAC? Is the new A/C going to be bigger?
If it is then the refrigerant lines probably need to be of larger
diameter as well and if not you don’t need to replace them.
2. Does your fireplace share the same chimney?

wrote:
Going through the quote process for my new furnace and AC and came up
with two questions:

2 - The new furnace will be direct vent, so it leaves the gas water
heater orphaned on the existing chimney that was shared with the gas
furnace. Is a chimney liner required or recommended? Chimney is
clay flue lined, most of chimney is entirely within the house, except
the last 5 ft or so which is in a wood siding chase above the roof
line. Don't have the exact measurements of the flue without going on
the roof, but guessing it's about 9 X 6 or so. Again, one company
says must do, the other says not needed.

My understanding is that a chimney built for a furnace will be too big for just
a water heater. Moisture will condense out onto the liner and, over time, break
it down. I installed a b-vent when I did this.

On Dec 10, 11:18*am, Molly Brown wrote:
On Dec 10, 7:45*am, wrote:





Going through the quote process for my new furnace and AC and came up
with two questions:

1 - Are new refrigerant lines required or recommended? *The existing
system is 26 years old, still working
no burned out compressor, etc. *One company says they have to be
replaced, other I didn't talk with
on that specific subject, but their quote calls out flushing and re-
using the existing ones.

2 - *The new furnace will be direct vent, so it leaves the gas water
heater orphaned on the existing chimney that was shared with the gas
furnace. *Is a chimney liner required or recommended? * Chimney is
clay flue lined, most of chimney is entirely within the house, except
the last 5 ft or so which is in a wood siding chase above the roof
line. *Don't have the exact measurements of the flue without going on
the roof, but guessing it's about 9 X 6 or so. *Again, one company
says must do, the other says not needed.

1. Why are you replacing your HVAC?

It's 26 years old and with the $1500 tax credits and rebates, it's
cost effective
to replace it.



Is the new A/C going to be bigger?

No, both 5 tons

If it is then the refrigerant lines probably need to be of larger
diameter as well and if not you don’t need to replace them.
2. Does your fireplace share the same chimney?- Hide quoted text -


No. The chimney has one flue for the existing furnace/water heater
and one flue
for the fireplace.

On Dec 10, 12:21*pm, wrote:
On Dec 10, 11:18*am, Molly Brown wrote:





On Dec 10, 7:45*am, wrote:

Going through the quote process for my new furnace and AC and came up
with two questions:

1 - Are new refrigerant lines required or recommended? *The existing
system is 26 years old, still working
no burned out compressor, etc. *One company says they have to be
replaced, other I didn't talk with
on that specific subject, but their quote calls out flushing and re-
using the existing ones.

2 - *The new furnace will be direct vent, so it leaves the gas water
heater orphaned on the existing chimney that was shared with the gas
furnace. *Is a chimney liner required or recommended? * Chimney is
clay flue lined, most of chimney is entirely within the house, except
the last 5 ft or so which is in a wood siding chase above the roof
line. *Don't have the exact measurements of the flue without going on
the roof, but guessing it's about 9 X 6 or so. *Again, one company
says must do, the other says not needed.

1. Why are you replacing your HVAC?

It's 26 years old and with the $1500 tax credits and rebates, it's
cost effective
to replace it.

*Is the new A/C going to be bigger?

No, both 5 tons

If it is then the refrigerant lines probably need to be of larger
diameter as well and if not you don’t need to replace them.
2. Does your fireplace share the same chimney?- Hide quoted text -

No. *The chimney has one flue for the existing furnace/water heater
and one flue
for the fireplace.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

There is not a downside to lining the side of the chimney that the hot
water heater will be using except cost. I suspect you're probably
getting some condensation in there already when the hw heater runs
without the fireplace in the winter. Is this a one or two story
house? Is the chimney brick? What's the total height of the
chimney? How exposed to the elements is it?

Another option would be to go with a condensing hw heater as well.
Then nothing is using the chimney any more.

On Dec 10, 9:45*am, wrote:
Going through the quote process for my new furnace and AC and came up
with two questions:

1 - Are new refrigerant lines required or recommended? *The existing
system is 26 years old, still working
no burned out compressor, etc. *One company says they have to be
replaced, other I didn't talk with
on that specific subject, but their quote calls out flushing and re-
using the existing ones.

2 - *The new furnace will be direct vent, so it leaves the gas water
heater orphaned on the existing chimney that was shared with the gas
furnace. *Is a chimney liner required or recommended? * Chimney is
clay flue lined, most of chimney is entirely within the house, except
the last 5 ft or so which is in a wood siding chase above the roof
line. *Don't have the exact measurements of the flue without going on
the roof, but guessing it's about 9 X 6 or so. *Again, one company
says must do, the other says not needed.

I spent 1000 this year fixing AC piping leaks on a 16 yr old system, a
26yr old line could easily become overstressed fitting new equipment,
nobody will guarntee that line.

On Dec 10, 12:37*pm, jamesgangnc wrote:
On Dec 10, 12:21*pm, wrote:





On Dec 10, 11:18*am, Molly Brown wrote:

On Dec 10, 7:45*am, wrote:

Going through the quote process for my new furnace and AC and came up
with two questions:

1 - Are new refrigerant lines required or recommended? *The existing
system is 26 years old, still working
no burned out compressor, etc. *One company says they have to be
replaced, other I didn't talk with
on that specific subject, but their quote calls out flushing and re-
using the existing ones.

2 - *The new furnace will be direct vent, so it leaves the gas water
heater orphaned on the existing chimney that was shared with the gas
furnace. *Is a chimney liner required or recommended? * Chimney is
clay flue lined, most of chimney is entirely within the house, except
the last 5 ft or so which is in a wood siding chase above the roof
line. *Don't have the exact measurements of the flue without going on
the roof, but guessing it's about 9 X 6 or so. *Again, one company
says must do, the other says not needed.

1. Why are you replacing your HVAC?

It's 26 years old and with the $1500 tax credits and rebates, it's
cost effective
to replace it.

*Is the new A/C going to be bigger?

No, both 5 tons

If it is then the refrigerant lines probably need to be of larger
diameter as well and if not you don’t need to replace them.
2. Does your fireplace share the same chimney?- Hide quoted text -

No. *The chimney has one flue for the existing furnace/water heater
and one flue
for the fireplace.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

There is not a downside to lining the side of the chimney that the hot
water heater will be using except cost. *I suspect you're probably
getting some condensation in there already when the hw heater runs
without the fireplace in the winter. *Is this a one or two story
house? *Is the chimney brick? *What's the total height of the
chimney? *How exposed to the elements is it?

2 stories. Chimney is block with clay flue. From the basement up,
most of
it is entirely inside the house, surrounded by interior walls all the
way, except
for the last 5 feet or so that is in a cedar siding wood chase.


Another option would be to go with a condensing hw heater as well.
Then nothing is using the chimney any more.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yes, I'm considering that too, but not the most likely option. And
certainly not
from the quote the one guy gave me, $1800.

wrote in news:03da6c0c-ac54-4c6a-9527-a943a8949742
@h22g2000vbr.googlegroups.com:

Going through the quote process for my new furnace and AC and came up
with two questions:

1 - Are new refrigerant lines required or recommended? The existing
system is 26 years old, still working
no burned out compressor, etc. One company says they have to be
replaced,

What's the adder?

other I didn't talk with
on that specific subject, but their quote calls out flushing and re-
using the existing ones.

2 - The new furnace will be direct vent, so it leaves the gas water
heater orphaned on the existing chimney that was shared with the gas
furnace. Is a chimney liner required or recommended? Chimney is
clay flue lined, most of chimney is entirely within the house, except
the last 5 ft or so which is in a wood siding chase above the roof
line. Don't have the exact measurements of the flue without going on
the roof, but guessing it's about 9 X 6 or so. Again, one company
says must do, the other says not needed.


Pay attention to Ransley's reply.

Subject: Questions on new gas furnace and AC
From: ransley
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair

I spent 1000 this year fixing AC piping leaks on a 16 yr old system, a
26yr old line could easily become overstressed fitting new equipment,
nobody will guarntee that line.

On 12/10/2010 9:45 AM, wrote:
Going through the quote process for my new furnace and AC and came up
with two questions:

1 - Are new refrigerant lines required or recommended? The existing
system is 26 years old, still working
no burned out compressor, etc. One company says they have to be
replaced, other I didn't talk with
on that specific subject, but their quote calls out flushing and re-
using the existing ones.

2 - The new furnace will be direct vent, so it leaves the gas water
heater orphaned on the existing chimney that was shared with the gas
furnace. Is a chimney liner required or recommended? Chimney is
clay flue lined, most of chimney is entirely within the house, except
the last 5 ft or so which is in a wood siding chase above the roof
line. Don't have the exact measurements of the flue without going on
the roof, but guessing it's about 9 X 6 or so. Again, one company
says must do, the other says not needed.


I can answer only #2, because i've ran into this exact situation 3 times
now. The answer is to have a liner installed. The clay flue will never
run hot enough to stay dry, and much caustic condensation will run back
down it. My HVAC man recommends a 4" liner, properly capped on top,
hooked to b-vent pipe to within a couple feet of the water heater. This
minimizes condensation as much as possible.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On Dec 10, 2:14*pm, Steve Barker wrote:
On 12/10/2010 9:45 AM, wrote:





Going through the quote process for my new furnace and AC and came up
with two questions:

1 - Are new refrigerant lines required or recommended? *The existing
system is 26 years old, still working
no burned out compressor, etc. *One company says they have to be
replaced, other I didn't talk with
on that specific subject, but their quote calls out flushing and re-
using the existing ones.

2 - *The new furnace will be direct vent, so it leaves the gas water
heater orphaned on the existing chimney that was shared with the gas
furnace. *Is a chimney liner required or recommended? * Chimney is
clay flue lined, most of chimney is entirely within the house, except
the last 5 ft or so which is in a wood siding chase above the roof
line. *Don't have the exact measurements of the flue without going on
the roof, but guessing it's about 9 X 6 or so. *Again, one company
says must do, the other says not needed.

I can answer only #2, because i've ran into this exact situation 3 times
now. *The answer is to have a liner installed. *The clay flue will never
run hot enough to stay dry, and much caustic condensation will run back
down it. My HVAC man recommends a 4" liner, properly capped on top,
hooked to b-vent pipe to within a couple feet of the water heater. This
minimizes condensation as much as possible.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Pardon my ignorance, but what is a b-vent?

wrote in message
...

Going through the quote process for my new furnace and AC and came up
with two questions:

1 - Are new refrigerant lines required or recommended? The existing
system is 26 years old, still working
no burned out compressor, etc. One company says they have to be
replaced, other I didn't talk with
on that specific subject, but their quote calls out flushing and re-
using the existing ones.

---------------

New refrigerant lines are wider now, like 1 1/8" and help greatly with
efficiency. I'm surprised the people that gave you quotes did not tell
you this. What is the length of the line??

New A/C units need larger diameter lines to reach their stated efficiencies.
The shorter your line, the more efficient it becomes too. The further from
the house or your blower/A coil the higher diameter line you would need.
That new line they want to give you might allow that new a/c they want to
install to run at stated capacity. Keeping the old lines might reduce that
capacity making your new unit run harder.

It'd be great too to get new insulation for those lines.

On Dec 10, 12:37*pm, wrote:
On Dec 10, 12:37*pm, jamesgangnc wrote:





On Dec 10, 12:21*pm, wrote:

On Dec 10, 11:18*am, Molly Brown wrote:

On Dec 10, 7:45*am, wrote:

Going through the quote process for my new furnace and AC and came up
with two questions:

1 - Are new refrigerant lines required or recommended? *The existing
system is 26 years old, still working
no burned out compressor, etc. *One company says they have to be
replaced, other I didn't talk with
on that specific subject, but their quote calls out flushing and re-
using the existing ones.

2 - *The new furnace will be direct vent, so it leaves the gas water
heater orphaned on the existing chimney that was shared with the gas
furnace. *Is a chimney liner required or recommended? * Chimney is
clay flue lined, most of chimney is entirely within the house, except
the last 5 ft or so which is in a wood siding chase above the roof
line. *Don't have the exact measurements of the flue without going on
the roof, but guessing it's about 9 X 6 or so. *Again, one company
says must do, the other says not needed.

1. Why are you replacing your HVAC?

It's 26 years old and with the $1500 tax credits and rebates, it's
cost effective
to replace it.

*Is the new A/C going to be bigger?

No, both 5 tons

If it is then the refrigerant lines probably need to be of larger
diameter as well and if not you don’t need to replace them.
2. Does your fireplace share the same chimney?- Hide quoted text -

No. *The chimney has one flue for the existing furnace/water heater
and one flue
for the fireplace.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

There is not a downside to lining the side of the chimney that the hot
water heater will be using except cost. *I suspect you're probably
getting some condensation in there already when the hw heater runs
without the fireplace in the winter. *Is this a one or two story
house? *Is the chimney brick? *What's the total height of the
chimney? *How exposed to the elements is it?

2 stories. *Chimney is block with clay flue. *From the basement up,
most of
it is entirely inside the house, surrounded by interior walls all the
way, except
for the last 5 feet or so that is in a cedar siding wood chase.



Another option would be to go with a condensing hw heater as well.
Then nothing is using the chimney any more.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yes, I'm considering that too, but not the most likely option. *And
certainly not
from the quote the one guy gave me, $1800.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You can bypass the chimney without a condensing unit if you powervent
the exhaust, I did that with my tankless. My new furnace is
condensing, In removing the furnace from the chimney the chimney got
to cold and downdrafted. I just didnt want to risk trying to make a
chimney reverse draft every time the water heater went on. Weigh the
cost of a liner vs 200 for a power vent and stainless vent hood, im
not including labor, and a completely new water heater and or a liner.
Or why not leave it for a year it wont hurt anything.

Copper oxidises before it develops the green patina, it wears away. I
can also imagine its thinner from fluid pumped through it for 26
years. Its aged and stiff. To put a new bend in it I bet will stress
it and could crack it if the bend is big enough. Is it worth breaking
and losing your charge. It will cost twice as much to replace and
refill your system if it goes and it wont be under warranty.

Be sure you get in writing that they come back next summer to test
it, to be sure thyey installed it right, that it works.

On 12/10/2010 4:33 PM, hr(bob) wrote:
On Dec 10, 2:14 pm, Steve wrote:
On 12/10/2010 9:45 AM, wrote:





Going through the quote process for my new furnace and AC and came up
with two questions:

1 - Are new refrigerant lines required or recommended? The existing
system is 26 years old, still working
no burned out compressor, etc. One company says they have to be
replaced, other I didn't talk with
on that specific subject, but their quote calls out flushing and re-
using the existing ones.

2 - The new furnace will be direct vent, so it leaves the gas water
heater orphaned on the existing chimney that was shared with the gas
furnace. Is a chimney liner required or recommended? Chimney is
clay flue lined, most of chimney is entirely within the house, except
the last 5 ft or so which is in a wood siding chase above the roof
line. Don't have the exact measurements of the flue without going on
the roof, but guessing it's about 9 X 6 or so. Again, one company
says must do, the other says not needed.

I can answer only #2, because i've ran into this exact situation 3 times
now. The answer is to have a liner installed. The clay flue will never
run hot enough to stay dry, and much caustic condensation will run back
down it. My HVAC man recommends a 4" liner, properly capped on top,
hooked to b-vent pipe to within a couple feet of the water heater. This
minimizes condensation as much as possible.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Pardon my ignorance, but what is a b-vent?

The regular ol' double wall vent pipe.

http://tinyurl.com/24b6axa



--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On Dec 10, 6:26*pm, Steve Barker wrote:
On 12/10/2010 4:33 PM, hr(bob) wrote:





On Dec 10, 2:14 pm, Steve *wrote:
On 12/10/2010 9:45 AM, wrote:

Going through the quote process for my new furnace and AC and came up
with two questions:

1 - Are new refrigerant lines required or recommended? *The existing
system is 26 years old, still working
no burned out compressor, etc. *One company says they have to be
replaced, other I didn't talk with
on that specific subject, but their quote calls out flushing and re-
using the existing ones.

2 - *The new furnace will be direct vent, so it leaves the gas water
heater orphaned on the existing chimney that was shared with the gas
furnace. *Is a chimney liner required or recommended? * Chimney is
clay flue lined, most of chimney is entirely within the house, except
the last 5 ft or so which is in a wood siding chase above the roof
line. *Don't have the exact measurements of the flue without going on
the roof, but guessing it's about 9 X 6 or so. *Again, one company
says must do, the other says not needed.

I can answer only #2, because i've ran into this exact situation 3 times
now. *The answer is to have a liner installed. *The clay flue will never
run hot enough to stay dry, and much caustic condensation will run back
down it. My HVAC man recommends a 4" liner, properly capped on top,
hooked to b-vent pipe to within a couple feet of the water heater. This
minimizes condensation as much as possible.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Pardon my ignorance, but what is a b-vent?

The regular ol' double wall vent pipe.

http://tinyurl.com/24b6axa

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

OK - But how does that translate to b-vent??

On 12/10/2010 9:20 PM, hr(bob) wrote:
On Dec 10, 6:26 pm, Steve wrote:
On 12/10/2010 4:33 PM, hr(bob) wrote:





On Dec 10, 2:14 pm, Steve wrote:
On 12/10/2010 9:45 AM, wrote:

Going through the quote process for my new furnace and AC and came up
with two questions:

1 - Are new refrigerant lines required or recommended? The existing
system is 26 years old, still working
no burned out compressor, etc. One company says they have to be
replaced, other I didn't talk with
on that specific subject, but their quote calls out flushing and re-
using the existing ones.

2 - The new furnace will be direct vent, so it leaves the gas water
heater orphaned on the existing chimney that was shared with the gas
furnace. Is a chimney liner required or recommended? Chimney is
clay flue lined, most of chimney is entirely within the house, except
the last 5 ft or so which is in a wood siding chase above the roof
line. Don't have the exact measurements of the flue without going on
the roof, but guessing it's about 9 X 6 or so. Again, one company
says must do, the other says not needed.

I can answer only #2, because i've ran into this exact situation 3 times
now. The answer is to have a liner installed. The clay flue will never
run hot enough to stay dry, and much caustic condensation will run back
down it. My HVAC man recommends a 4" liner, properly capped on top,
hooked to b-vent pipe to within a couple feet of the water heater. This
minimizes condensation as much as possible.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Pardon my ignorance, but what is a b-vent?

The regular ol' double wall vent pipe.

http://tinyurl.com/24b6axa

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

OK - But how does that translate to b-vent??

That's what the **** is called! What part don't you understand?

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On Dec 10, 5:54*pm, "The Henchman" wrote:
wrote in ...

Going through the quote process for my new furnace and AC and came up
with two questions:

1 - Are new refrigerant lines required or recommended? *The existing
system is 26 years old, still working
no burned out compressor, etc. *One company says they have to be
replaced, other I didn't talk with
on that specific subject, but their quote calls out flushing and re-
using the existing ones.

---------------

New refrigerant lines are wider now, like 1 1/8" and help greatly with
efficiency. * I'm surprised the people that gave you quotes *did not tell
you this.

I have written quotes now from 2 contractors, price only from #3,
waiting for #4.
I brought up the lines with the first contractor, Carrier guy, and he
said they
needed to be replaced and were in his quote. From then on, I didn't
even
think to ask, because I guess I figured they all would replace them.
None of the
other guys said anything one way or the other. But the other written
quote
calls out flushing the existing lines.

I talked with the Carrier guy about this on the phone and he's saying
the same
thing you said above. That they should be 1 1/8" From talking to him
and googling, it appears
however that it's acceptable to reuse the existing ones if it's
difficult to replace
the existing ones, eg, they are covered by drywall, run inside walls,
etc. Mine
are easily accessible in the basement.

What is the length of the line??

22 ft. I think the new ones could be routed on a shorter path, to
bring it down
to 15 or 16ft, if they wanted to do it that way.



New A/C units need larger diameter lines to reach their stated efficiencies.
The shorter your line, the more efficient it becomes too. The further from
the house or your blower/A coil the higher diameter line you would need.
That new line they want to give you might allow that new a/c they want to
install to run at stated capacity. *Keeping the old lines might reduce that
capacity making your new unit run harder.

It'd be great too to get new insulation for those lines.


My current thinking is to get both the new lines and chimney liner.

Regarding the chimney liner, from what I can gather from googling, it
appears
the answer is, it depends. I found some guidelines that say if the
chimney is
entirely inside, then it doesn't need to be lined. That is what one
of the contractors
told me too. Then, if it's not, there are some rules of thumb
regarding flue size.
If its a 3" vent, then it doesn't need a liner if the flue is 49 in sq
or less. With a
4" vent, if it's 88 in sq or less it's OK. Haven't gone up to
measure mine yet.
But one thing is clear, regardless of the guidelines the only downside
to the liner
is the upfront cost and it's the option that is the most sure.

wrote in message
...
On Dec 10, 5:54 pm, "The Henchman" wrote:
wrote in
...

Going through the quote process for my new furnace and AC and came up
with two questions:

1 - Are new refrigerant lines required or recommended? The existing
system is 26 years old, still working
no burned out compressor, etc. One company says they have to be
replaced, other I didn't talk with
on that specific subject, but their quote calls out flushing and re-
using the existing ones.


Several years ago I had a heat pump system replaced as the old one was about
20 years old and was giving problems. I had everything but the duct work
and the power witing going from the main breaker box to the disconnects
replaced. That way if anything goes wrong the installers can not point
their fingers at anyone but theirselves. A few feet of line probably does
not cost all that much anyway. As someone pointed out, the lines may need
to be differant sizes. Especially when going from the old r-22 to the newer
refrigerant.

On Dec 11, 11:17*am, "Ralph Mowery"
wrote:
wrote in message

...
On Dec 10, 5:54 pm, "The Henchman" wrote: wrote in
...

Going through the quote process for my new furnace and AC and came up
with two questions:

1 - Are new refrigerant lines required or recommended? The existing
system is 26 years old, still working
no burned out compressor, etc. One company says they have to be
replaced, other I didn't talk with
on that specific subject, but their quote calls out flushing and re-
using the existing ones.

Several years ago I had a heat pump system replaced as the old one was about
20 years old and was giving problems. *I had everything but the duct work
and the power witing going from the main breaker box to the disconnects
replaced. *That way if anything goes wrong the installers can not point
their fingers at anyone but theirselves. *A few feet of line probably does
not cost all that much anyway. *As someone pointed out, the lines may need
to be differant sizes. *Especially when going from the old r-22 to the newer
refrigerant.

Thanks for all the input on both issues. I'm going to get the new
lines and a chimney
liner. I came up with another idea. Since the water heater is about
half way through its
life, I'm thinking of using an aluminum liner which is a lot cheaper
than stainless steel.
It won't last as long, but should last as long as the water heater.
At that time who knows
what products will be available, tax credits, rebates, etc. So it
might bet converted to direct
vent, or tankless, etc and then no need for the liner anymore.

On Dec 11, 10:49*am, wrote:


I have written quotes now from 2 contractors, price only from #3,
waiting for #4.
I brought up the lines with the first contractor, Carrier guy, and he
said they
needed to be replaced and were in his quote. * From then on, I didn't
even
think to ask, because I guess I figured they all would replace them.
None of the
other guys said anything one way or the other. *But the other written
quote
calls out flushing the existing lines.


Yeah, this sort of thing happens, OFTEN, because many homeowners
have never heard of something called a RFP (Request for Proposals)
or Bid Specifications Packet...

If you call in 4 companies to look over your project and aren't very
specific AND very identical in what you tell them during your walk
around with each companies representatives, you are in actuality
getting 4 different quotes on 4 different projects which will include
differing options at the discretion of the companies involved and
will most definitely have vastly different scope of work factored
in...
In your example, which ones say in the bids that the lines will
definitely be replaced versus the ones that say nothing about them ?

The more detailed the description of work you give the bidders,
the more accurate your bids will be and the contractors will know
what needs to be replaced to accomplish your work... Everyone
will be on the same page... Differences in bids often result from
poorly defined scope of work and not specifying what equipment
you desire to have installed (different companies can get different
brands cheaper than others) and therefore what you end up with
is having to choose between bids in a large range from high to low
without having a very detailed breakdown of what you will be
getting for your money...

~~ Evan

On Dec 12, 12:19*pm, Evan wrote:
On Dec 11, 10:49*am, wrote:



I have written quotes now from 2 contractors, price only from #3,
waiting for #4.
I brought up the lines with the first contractor, Carrier guy, and he
said they
needed to be replaced and were in his quote. * From then on, I didn't
even
think to ask, because I guess I figured they all would replace them.
None of the
other guys said anything one way or the other. *But the other written
quote
calls out flushing the existing lines.

Yeah, this sort of thing happens, OFTEN, because many homeowners
have never heard of something called a RFP (Request for Proposals)
or Bid Specifications Packet...

If you call in 4 companies to look over your project and aren't very
specific AND very identical in what you tell them during your walk
around with each companies representatives, you are in actuality
getting 4 different quotes on 4 different projects which will include
differing options at the discretion of the companies involved and
will most definitely have vastly different scope of work factored
in...
In your example, which ones say in the bids that the lines will
definitely be replaced versus the ones that say nothing about them ?

The more detailed the description of work you give the bidders,
the more accurate your bids will be and the contractors will know
what needs to be replaced to accomplish your work... *Everyone
will be on the same page... *Differences in bids often result from
poorly defined scope of work and not specifying what equipment
you desire to have installed (different companies can get different
brands cheaper than others) and therefore what you end up with
is having to choose between bids in a large range from high to low
without having a very detailed breakdown of what you will be
getting for your money...

~~ Evan

Yes, I agree. And I'm fairly well educated on the HVAC basics. I can
only imagine what happens with a total novice homeowner. Another
example is permits. Half the companies just include them. The other
half say because the costs vary from location to location, they will
pull
them, but I then pay for whatever they cost at the end of the job.
Either
way is OK with me, but I wonder how many people forget to factor in
that they have an extra $300 coming with some of the quotes at the end
that isn't reflected in the price they are looking at. I bet after a
week or
two half of them forget about it and consequently, one guy's quote
looks
$300 better than another.

In the case of the refrigerant lines, I did think to ask the first guy
and since
he said they always replace them, my mind shifted to that being it's a
whole
new system, different refrigerant, etc, everybody would just replace
them.
Fortunately, I figured it out in time and at least it was clear on the
quote from
the company that wanted to re-use the existing lines. They didn't
hide it.
Clearly what one has to do is learn along the way and then go back to
the
contractors of interest to find out any adders necessary to make the
quotes
comparable.