I had a problem in electric service panel in a home that I own. One of the
breakers kept tripping. When I checked it out, the breaker was basically
fried and when I took it out it looked like the breaker pictured in the link
below:
http://www.terrylove.com/forums/show...839&viewfull=1

And, just like the description of the problem in the link, in my case the
other breaker that attached to the same hot lug(?) was also damaged. I
replaced both breakers and moved both down to a new location where the hot
terminal of the bus bar wasn't damaged. An electrician had to do the same
thing with another breaker in the past, and he had to move that one too
because hot lug to which that breaker was connected had melted.

This time, when looking at the whole panel, it appears that the breakers are
all old and there are some signs of rust or corrosion on the breaker screws
etc. I am assuming they are just old and maybe there was dampness in the
basement and the humidity was starting to corrode things.

My initial plan is to replace all of the breakers with new ones, which I can
easily do.

But, my real question is whether it is possible or practical to just replace
the hot bus bar at the same time since the old one has heat damage at a few
places. Unless this is something fairly easy to do, I would probably have
an electrician do it.

Assuming that the part is available, is replacing the hot bus bar a fairly
easy thing for an electrician to do? If so, the reason that I would want to
have that done rather than get the whole panel replaced is that everything
else in the panel appears to be fine. The main breaker had already been
replaced by an electrician in the past, so rather than having to have all of
the wiring removed and start over with a new panel, it seems like just
replacing the hot bus bar and circuit breakers would solve the problem and
save a whole lot on the cost and time involved in doing the fix.

The service panel is a 100-amp Challenge brand panel with probably 30
circuits. I know Challenger is no longer in business and was bought by
Cutler-Hammer (now Easton Cutler-Hammer, I think). And, I know that
Cutler-Hammer circuit breakers are the replacement for the existing
Challenger BR breakers that I have. But, whether a replacement hot bus bar
part is available, I don't know.

So, again, my main question is: Assuming that the part is available, is
replacing the hot bus bar a fairly easy thing for an electrician to do?

On Dec 1, 4:48*pm, "RogerT" wrote:
I had a problem in electric service panel in a home that I own. *One of the
breakers kept tripping. * When I checked it out, the breaker was basically
fried and when I took it out it looked like the breaker pictured in the link
below:http://www.terrylove.com/forums/show...rvice-Panel-Pr...

And, just like the description of the problem in the link, in my case the
other breaker that attached to the same hot lug(?) was also damaged. *I
replaced both breakers and moved both down to a new location where the hot
terminal of the bus bar wasn't damaged. *An electrician had to do the same
thing with another breaker in the past, and he had to move that one too
because hot lug to which that breaker was connected had melted.

This time, when looking at the whole panel, it appears that the breakers are
all old and there are some signs of rust or corrosion on the breaker screws
etc. *I am assuming they are just old and maybe there was dampness in the
basement and the humidity was starting to corrode things.

My initial plan is to replace all of the breakers with new ones, which I can
easily do.

But, my real question is whether it is possible or practical to just replace
the hot bus bar at the same time since the old one has heat damage at a few
places. *Unless this is something fairly easy to do, I would probably have
an electrician do it.

Assuming that the part is available, is replacing the hot bus bar a fairly
easy thing for an electrician to do? *If so, the reason that I would want to
have that done rather than get the whole panel replaced is that everything
else in the panel appears to be fine. *The main breaker had already been
replaced by an electrician in the past, so rather than having to have all of
the wiring removed and start over with a new panel, it seems like just
replacing the hot bus bar and circuit breakers would solve the problem and
save a whole lot on the cost and time involved in doing the fix.

The service panel is a 100-amp Challenge brand panel with probably 30
circuits. *I know Challenger is no longer in business and was bought by
Cutler-Hammer (now Easton Cutler-Hammer, I think). *And, I know that
Cutler-Hammer circuit breakers are the replacement for the existing
Challenger BR breakers that I have. *But, whether a replacement hot bus bar
part is available, I don't know.

So, again, my main question is: *Assuming that the part is available, is
replacing the hot bus bar a fairly easy thing for an electrician to do?

Not an answer to your exact question, but given all the above, I would
give serious consideration to simply replacing the whole panel and
being done with it, unless there is some reason why the enclosure
would be difficult to R&R. You could likely do it yourself if you are
reasonably handy; you may have to pull a permit for the work, and
schedule an outage with the power company. They'll just come and pull
the meter so you can work on it safely and then put the meter back in
after you pass your inspection. New 100A panel should be less than
$200 at supply house unless I am way out of touch.

I believe current opinion is that Square-D "QO" is the top of the line
residential panel, but if you are on a real limited budget you could
just use a new C-H panel and use the existing breakers from your old
panel that are still in good condition. (I wouldn't really recommend
that however based on the problems that you describe.)

good luck

nate

On Wed, 1 Dec 2010 16:48:17 -0500, "RogerT"
wrote:

I had a problem in electric service panel in a home that I own. One of the
breakers kept tripping. When I checked it out, the breaker was basically
fried and when I took it out it looked like the breaker pictured in the link
below:
http://www.terrylove.com/forums/show...839&viewfull=1

And, just like the description of the problem in the link, in my case the
other breaker that attached to the same hot lug(?) was also damaged. I
replaced both breakers and moved both down to a new location where the hot
terminal of the bus bar wasn't damaged. An electrician had to do the same
thing with another breaker in the past, and he had to move that one too
because hot lug to which that breaker was connected had melted.

This time, when looking at the whole panel, it appears that the breakers are
all old and there are some signs of rust or corrosion on the breaker screws
etc. I am assuming they are just old and maybe there was dampness in the
basement and the humidity was starting to corrode things.

My initial plan is to replace all of the breakers with new ones, which I can
easily do.

But, my real question is whether it is possible or practical to just replace
the hot bus bar at the same time since the old one has heat damage at a few
places. Unless this is something fairly easy to do, I would probably have
an electrician do it.

Assuming that the part is available, is replacing the hot bus bar a fairly
easy thing for an electrician to do? If so, the reason that I would want to
have that done rather than get the whole panel replaced is that everything
else in the panel appears to be fine. The main breaker had already been
replaced by an electrician in the past, so rather than having to have all of
the wiring removed and start over with a new panel, it seems like just
replacing the hot bus bar and circuit breakers would solve the problem and
save a whole lot on the cost and time involved in doing the fix.

The service panel is a 100-amp Challenge brand panel with probably 30
circuits. I know Challenger is no longer in business and was bought by
Cutler-Hammer (now Easton Cutler-Hammer, I think). And, I know that
Cutler-Hammer circuit breakers are the replacement for the existing
Challenger BR breakers that I have. But, whether a replacement hot bus bar
part is available, I don't know.

So, again, my main question is: Assuming that the part is available, is
replacing the hot bus bar a fairly easy thing for an electrician to do?

ASSuming the part is available is a very large assumption - but if it
is, it is a very trivial job on most panels.

If it is rivetted instead of bolted or screwed it could get a bit more
involved.

However, In the circumstances, I'd be replacing that panel

wrote:

On Wed, 1 Dec 2010 16:48:17 -0500, "RogerT"
wrote:

I had a problem in electric service panel in a home that I own. One of the
breakers kept tripping. When I checked it out, the breaker was basically
fried and when I took it out it looked like the breaker pictured in the link
below:
http://www.terrylove.com/forums/show...839&viewfull=1

And, just like the description of the problem in the link, in my case the
other breaker that attached to the same hot lug(?) was also damaged. I
replaced both breakers and moved both down to a new location where the hot
terminal of the bus bar wasn't damaged. An electrician had to do the same
thing with another breaker in the past, and he had to move that one too
because hot lug to which that breaker was connected had melted.

This time, when looking at the whole panel, it appears that the breakers are
all old and there are some signs of rust or corrosion on the breaker screws
etc. I am assuming they are just old and maybe there was dampness in the
basement and the humidity was starting to corrode things.

My initial plan is to replace all of the breakers with new ones, which I can
easily do.

But, my real question is whether it is possible or practical to just replace
the hot bus bar at the same time since the old one has heat damage at a few
places. Unless this is something fairly easy to do, I would probably have
an electrician do it.

Assuming that the part is available, is replacing the hot bus bar a fairly
easy thing for an electrician to do? If so, the reason that I would want to
have that done rather than get the whole panel replaced is that everything
else in the panel appears to be fine. The main breaker had already been
replaced by an electrician in the past, so rather than having to have all of
the wiring removed and start over with a new panel, it seems like just
replacing the hot bus bar and circuit breakers would solve the problem and
save a whole lot on the cost and time involved in doing the fix.

The service panel is a 100-amp Challenge brand panel with probably 30
circuits. I know Challenger is no longer in business and was bought by
Cutler-Hammer (now Easton Cutler-Hammer, I think). And, I know that
Cutler-Hammer circuit breakers are the replacement for the existing
Challenger BR breakers that I have. But, whether a replacement hot bus bar
part is available, I don't know.

So, again, my main question is: Assuming that the part is available, is
replacing the hot bus bar a fairly easy thing for an electrician to do?

ASSuming the part is available is a very large assumption - but if it
is, it is a very trivial job on most panels.

If it is rivetted instead of bolted or screwed it could get a bit more
involved.

However, In the circumstances, I'd be replacing that panel

Given the low cost of a 100A 32 space new panel at around and the fact
that the OP is planning on replacing all the breakers anyway, I think it
would be crazy to try to rebuild a damaged and obsolete panel. Put a new
basic GE panel in, or better yet a Square D QO (not Homeline) panel in
for a little bit more and you won't have to deal with panel repairs
again in your lifetime.

"RogerT" wrote in message
...
I had a problem in electric service panel in a home that I own. One of the
breakers kept tripping. When I checked it out, the breaker was basically
fried and when I took it out it looked like the breaker pictured in the
link below:
http://www.terrylove.com/forums/show...839&viewfull=1

And, just like the description of the problem in the link, in my case the
other breaker that attached to the same hot lug(?) was also damaged. I
replaced both breakers and moved both down to a new location where the hot
terminal of the bus bar wasn't damaged. An electrician had to do the same
thing with another breaker in the past, and he had to move that one too
because hot lug to which that breaker was connected had melted.

This time, when looking at the whole panel, it appears that the breakers
are all old and there are some signs of rust or corrosion on the breaker
screws etc. I am assuming they are just old and maybe there was dampness
in the basement and the humidity was starting to corrode things.

My initial plan is to replace all of the breakers with new ones, which I
can easily do.

But, my real question is whether it is possible or practical to just
replace the hot bus bar at the same time since the old one has heat damage
at a few places. Unless this is something fairly easy to do, I would
probably have an electrician do it.

Assuming that the part is available, is replacing the hot bus bar a fairly
easy thing for an electrician to do? If so, the reason that I would want
to have that done rather than get the whole panel replaced is that
everything else in the panel appears to be fine. The main breaker had
already been replaced by an electrician in the past, so rather than having
to have all of the wiring removed and start over with a new panel, it
seems like just replacing the hot bus bar and circuit breakers would solve
the problem and save a whole lot on the cost and time involved in doing
the fix.

The service panel is a 100-amp Challenge brand panel with probably 30
circuits. I know Challenger is no longer in business and was bought by
Cutler-Hammer (now Easton Cutler-Hammer, I think). And, I know that
Cutler-Hammer circuit breakers are the replacement for the existing
Challenger BR breakers that I have. But, whether a replacement hot bus
bar part is available, I don't know.

So, again, my main question is: Assuming that the part is available, is
replacing the hot bus bar a fairly easy thing for an electrician to do?

Don't waste your time, next you'll be needing a new obsolete main breaker.
Change the panel with something mainstream, although I don't know that
you're going to find a 100 amp panel with 30 circuits

But, my real question is whether it is possible or practical to just
replace the hot bus bar at the same time since the old one has heat damage
at a few places.

I had problems with a panel once. I went to a Electical shop and they had
bins full of parts salvaged from old panels. The guy rooted around and
found the exact part I needed and gave it to me.

I have experienced warm moist air from the house travelling up inside the
servace entrance conduit and then condensing when it reaches a cold spot.
The water then drips back down into the panel and causes it to fail. I
fixed the problem by sealing the bottom of the conduit where the wires enter
to prevent the warm moist air from entering.

"RogerT" wrote in message
I had a problem in electric service panel in a home that I own. One
of the breakers kept tripping. When I checked it out, the breaker
was basically fried and when I took it out it looked like the breaker
pictured in the link below:
http://www.terrylove.com/forums/show...839&viewfull=1

And, just like the description of the problem in the link, in my
case the other breaker that attached to the same hot lug(?) was also
damaged.


I would get a new breaker panel and all new breakers. Don't re-use the
old breakers.

On Wed, 1 Dec 2010 17:33:20 -0800, "Bill"
wrote:

"RogerT" wrote in message
I had a problem in electric service panel in a home that I own. One
of the breakers kept tripping. When I checked it out, the breaker
was basically fried and when I took it out it looked like the breaker
pictured in the link below:
http://www.terrylove.com/forums/show...839&viewfull=1

And, just like the description of the problem in the link, in my
case the other breaker that attached to the same hot lug(?) was also
damaged.


I would get a new breaker panel and all new breakers. Don't re-use the
old breakers.
Particularly since it is MOST likely the (reduced) breaker tab tension
that is causing the buss to burn.

RogerT wrote:
I had a problem in electric service panel in a home that I own. One
of the breakers kept tripping. When I checked it out, the breaker
was basically fried and when I took it out it looked like the breaker
pictured in the link below:
http://www.terrylove.com/forums/show...839&viewfull=1

And, just like the description of the problem in the link, in my case
the other breaker that attached to the same hot lug(?) was also
damaged. I replaced both breakers and moved both down to a new
location where the hot terminal of the bus bar wasn't damaged. An
electrician had to do the same thing with another breaker in the
past, and he had to move that one too because hot lug to which that
breaker was connected had melted.
This time, when looking at the whole panel, it appears that the
breakers are all old and there are some signs of rust or corrosion on
the breaker screws etc. I am assuming they are just old and maybe
there was dampness in the basement and the humidity was starting to
corrode things.
My initial plan is to replace all of the breakers with new ones,
which I can easily do.

But, my real question is whether it is possible or practical to just
replace the hot bus bar at the same time since the old one has heat
damage at a few places. Unless this is something fairly easy to do,
I would probably have an electrician do it.

Assuming that the part is available, is replacing the hot bus bar a
fairly easy thing for an electrician to do? If so, the reason that I
would want to have that done rather than get the whole panel replaced
is that everything else in the panel appears to be fine. The main
breaker had already been replaced by an electrician in the past, so
rather than having to have all of the wiring removed and start over
with a new panel, it seems like just replacing the hot bus bar and
circuit breakers would solve the problem and save a whole lot on the
cost and time involved in doing the fix.
The service panel is a 100-amp Challenge brand panel with probably 30
circuits. I know Challenger is no longer in business and was bought
by Cutler-Hammer (now Easton Cutler-Hammer, I think). And, I know
that Cutler-Hammer circuit breakers are the replacement for the
existing Challenger BR breakers that I have. But, whether a
replacement hot bus bar part is available, I don't know.

So, again, my main question is: Assuming that the part is available,
is replacing the hot bus bar a fairly easy thing for an electrician
to do?

Another vote for replacing the panel. Parts should cost around $300 and if
your hand fits a screwdriver, you can complete the job in an afternoon.

If you decide to go that route, check back here for detailed advice and the
steps to take.

On Dec 1, 9:24*pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
RogerT wrote:
I had a problem in electric service panel in a home that I own. *One
of the breakers kept tripping. * When I checked it out, the breaker
was basically fried and when I took it out it looked like the breaker
pictured in the link below:
http://www.terrylove.com/forums/show...rvice-Panel-Pr...

And, just like the description of the problem in the link, in my case
the other breaker that attached to the same hot lug(?) was also
damaged. *I replaced both breakers and moved both down to a new
location where the hot terminal of the bus bar wasn't damaged. *An
electrician had to do the same thing with another breaker in the
past, and he had to move that one too because hot lug to which that
breaker was connected had melted.
This time, when looking at the whole panel, it appears that the
breakers are all old and there are some signs of rust or corrosion on
the breaker screws etc. *I am assuming they are just old and maybe
there was dampness in the basement and the humidity was starting to
corrode things.
My initial plan is to replace all of the breakers with new ones,
which I can easily do.

But, my real question is whether it is possible or practical to just
replace the hot bus bar at the same time since the old one has heat
damage at a few places. *Unless this is something fairly easy to do,
I would probably have an electrician do it.

Assuming that the part is available, is replacing the hot bus bar a
fairly easy thing for an electrician to do? *If so, the reason that I
would want to have that done rather than get the whole panel replaced
is that everything else in the panel appears to be fine. *The main
breaker had already been replaced by an electrician in the past, so
rather than having to have all of the wiring removed and start over
with a new panel, it seems like just replacing the hot bus bar and
circuit breakers would solve the problem and save a whole lot on the
cost and time involved in doing the fix.
The service panel is a 100-amp Challenge brand panel with probably 30
circuits. *I know Challenger is no longer in business and was bought
by Cutler-Hammer (now Easton Cutler-Hammer, I think). *And, I know
that Cutler-Hammer circuit breakers are the replacement for the
existing Challenger BR breakers that I have. *But, whether a
replacement hot bus bar part is available, I don't know.

So, again, my main question is: *Assuming that the part is available,
is replacing the hot bus bar a fairly easy thing for an electrician
to do?

Another vote for replacing the panel. Parts should cost around $300 and if
your hand fits a screwdriver, you can complete the job in an afternoon.

If you decide to go that route, check back here for detailed advice and the
steps to take.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

how old is the main service cable? its likely ancient and ideally
upgrade to 200 amp main with new everything.

the main panel cost difference between 100 amp and 200 amp is pretty
small. plus you can get more breakers in a 200 amp panel

RogerT wrote:
I had a problem in electric service panel in a home that I own. One of the
breakers kept tripping. When I checked it out, the breaker was basically
fried and when I took it out it looked like the breaker pictured in the link
below:
http://www.terrylove.com/forums/show...839&viewfull=1

And, just like the description of the problem in the link, in my case the
other breaker that attached to the same hot lug(?) was also damaged. I
replaced both breakers and moved both down to a new location where the hot
terminal of the bus bar wasn't damaged. An electrician had to do the same
thing with another breaker in the past, and he had to move that one too
because hot lug to which that breaker was connected had melted.

This time, when looking at the whole panel, it appears that the breakers are
all old and there are some signs of rust or corrosion on the breaker screws
etc. I am assuming they are just old and maybe there was dampness in the
basement and the humidity was starting to corrode things.

My initial plan is to replace all of the breakers with new ones, which I can
easily do.

But, my real question is whether it is possible or practical to just replace
the hot bus bar at the same time since the old one has heat damage at a few
places. Unless this is something fairly easy to do, I would probably have
an electrician do it.

Assuming that the part is available, is replacing the hot bus bar a fairly
easy thing for an electrician to do? If so, the reason that I would want to
have that done rather than get the whole panel replaced is that everything
else in the panel appears to be fine. The main breaker had already been
replaced by an electrician in the past, so rather than having to have all of
the wiring removed and start over with a new panel, it seems like just
replacing the hot bus bar and circuit breakers would solve the problem and
save a whole lot on the cost and time involved in doing the fix.

The service panel is a 100-amp Challenge brand panel with probably 30
circuits. I know Challenger is no longer in business and was bought by
Cutler-Hammer (now Easton Cutler-Hammer, I think). And, I know that
Cutler-Hammer circuit breakers are the replacement for the existing
Challenger BR breakers that I have. But, whether a replacement hot bus bar
part is available, I don't know.

So, again, my main question is: Assuming that the part is available, is
replacing the hot bus bar a fairly easy thing for an electrician to do?


Where the hell you gonna find a bus bar for that? Get a new box.

--
LSMFT

Simple job, assist the assistant of the physicist.

wrote:
-

how old is the main service cable? its likely ancient and ideally
upgrade to 200 amp main with new everything.

the main panel cost difference between 100 amp and 200 amp is pretty
small. plus you can get more breakers in a 200 amp panel

Yep. REALLY small. Like ten bucks.

On Thu, 2 Dec 2010 11:12:26 -0600, "HeyBub"
wrote:

wrote:
-

how old is the main service cable? its likely ancient and ideally
upgrade to 200 amp main with new everything.

the main panel cost difference between 100 amp and 200 amp is pretty
small. plus you can get more breakers in a 200 amp panel


Not necessarilly true. Very often the only difference between a 100
and a 200 is the main breaker - the same number of breaker slots
available on each.
Yep. REALLY small. Like ten bucks.

On Dec 1, 4:48*pm, "RogerT" wrote:
I had a problem in electric service panel in a home that I own. *One of the
breakers kept tripping. * When I checked it out, the breaker was basically
fried and when I took it out it looked like the breaker pictured in the link
below:http://www.terrylove.com/forums/show...rvice-Panel-Pr...

And, just like the description of the problem in the link, in my case the
other breaker that attached to the same hot lug(?) was also damaged. *I
replaced both breakers and moved both down to a new location where the hot
terminal of the bus bar wasn't damaged. *An electrician had to do the same
thing with another breaker in the past, and he had to move that one too
because hot lug to which that breaker was connected had melted.

This time, when looking at the whole panel, it appears that the breakers are
all old and there are some signs of rust or corrosion on the breaker screws
etc. *I am assuming they are just old and maybe there was dampness in the
basement and the humidity was starting to corrode things.

My initial plan is to replace all of the breakers with new ones, which I can
easily do.

But, my real question is whether it is possible or practical to just replace
the hot bus bar at the same time since the old one has heat damage at a few
places. *Unless this is something fairly easy to do, I would probably have
an electrician do it.

Assuming that the part is available, is replacing the hot bus bar a fairly
easy thing for an electrician to do? *If so, the reason that I would want to
have that done rather than get the whole panel replaced is that everything
else in the panel appears to be fine. *The main breaker had already been
replaced by an electrician in the past, so rather than having to have all of
the wiring removed and start over with a new panel, it seems like just
replacing the hot bus bar and circuit breakers would solve the problem and
save a whole lot on the cost and time involved in doing the fix.

The service panel is a 100-amp Challenge brand panel with probably 30
circuits. *I know Challenger is no longer in business and was bought by
Cutler-Hammer (now Easton Cutler-Hammer, I think). *And, I know that
Cutler-Hammer circuit breakers are the replacement for the existing
Challenger BR breakers that I have. *But, whether a replacement hot bus bar
part is available, I don't know.

So, again, my main question is: *Assuming that the part is available, is
replacing the hot bus bar a fairly easy thing for an electrician to do?

"there are some signs of rust or corrosion on the breaker screws
etc. I am assuming they are just old and maybe there was dampness in
the basement and the humidity was starting to corrode things"

or...

In my case, water was getting into the service cable either at the
meter or at the bugs. Even though the service cable travelled up hill
in some locations, water was finding it's way into the house and
dripping from the top of the breaker box. The problem was pointed out
to me by a rep from the electric company when they were in the house
for an unrelated electrical matter.

The lowest spot in the service cable was just below the meter, so I
took a utliity knife and made a tiny slit in the bottom of the jacket.
Water actually drained out of the cable and I never saw signs moisture
in the panel again.

Thanks everyone for the replies.

I was thinking that if replacing the hot bus bar was an easy and fairly
common thing to do that maybe I would just go that route. I thought that
would avoid the labor involved in having all of the existing cirucits
removed from the old panel, put a new panel in, and reconnect all of the
cirucits. But it appears that even finding the correct replacement bus bar
for the existing panel would be an issue, and the consensus seems to be that
I'd be much better off anyway replacing the entire service panel.

Someone mentioned not reusing the old breakers -- I wouldn't want to do that
anyway and never had that in mind. And, someone else mentioned something
about 14 guage wire being on 20-amp breakers. I don't know where that came
from because there is no 14 guage wire on any 20-amp breakers in the
existing service panel, and I would never do that either.

I don't ever do any service panel replacements on my own. I'm pretty sure I
could figure it out and learn how to do it if needed, but dealing with the
main service power lines that come in to the panel is really out of my
league. Even changing a main breaker is something that I have never done
and I wouldn't want to be doing on my own. I am pretty comfortable with
mostly everything after the main breaker, although I am not so sure I would
want to take on replacing the hot bus bar in a panel.

The good news is that there is an electric company almost next door to where
this property is and I have had them do work there before. I also have a
licensed electrician that I use for new electric service at other properties
I have. So, I can easily get a price for having a new service panel put in
at this property. But, before contacting the almost-next-door electric
company, I wanted to check and see what people here thought of the
possibility of just replacing the bus bar rather than the whole panel. I'll
ask them too when they look at the job, just in case they think it would be
a good idea and they could get the part etc.

I agree that getting 200-amp service instead of 100-amp service is usually
worth it when getting a new service put in. The difference in price is not
that much. When I have done that, the price difference was $200 in one case
and $300 in another. Since that's only a one-time cost, the extra cost
seems negligible to me over the life of the home. In the casses where I was
getting a new service put in, the job included replacing a very old service
and included a new drop being installed. Since that was being done anyway,
I opted for 200-amp service whenever I could. I guess part of the increase
in price from 100-amp to 200-amp service included the increased cost for the
higher guage wire for the drop etc.

In this current property, the drop is already in place for the existing
100-amp service. I don't know the guage of that wire or whether it would
accomodate a new 200-amp (or even 150-amp) service.

RogerT wrote:
I had a problem in electric service panel in a home that I own. One
of the breakers kept tripping. When I checked it out, the breaker
was basically fried and when I took it out it looked like the breaker
pictured in the link below:
http://www.terrylove.com/forums/show...839&viewfull=1

And, just like the description of the problem in the link, in my case
the other breaker that attached to the same hot lug(?) was also
damaged. I replaced both breakers and moved both down to a new
location where the hot terminal of the bus bar wasn't damaged. An
electrician had to do the same thing with another breaker in the
past, and he had to move that one too because hot lug to which that
breaker was connected had melted.
This time, when looking at the whole panel, it appears that the
breakers are all old and there are some signs of rust or corrosion on
the breaker screws etc. I am assuming they are just old and maybe
there was dampness in the basement and the humidity was starting to
corrode things.
My initial plan is to replace all of the breakers with new ones,
which I can easily do.

But, my real question is whether it is possible or practical to just
replace the hot bus bar at the same time since the old one has heat
damage at a few places. Unless this is something fairly easy to do,
I would probably have an electrician do it.

Assuming that the part is available, is replacing the hot bus bar a
fairly easy thing for an electrician to do? If so, the reason that I
would want to have that done rather than get the whole panel replaced
is that everything else in the panel appears to be fine. The main
breaker had already been replaced by an electrician in the past, so
rather than having to have all of the wiring removed and start over
with a new panel, it seems like just replacing the hot bus bar and
circuit breakers would solve the problem and save a whole lot on the
cost and time involved in doing the fix.
The service panel is a 100-amp Challenge brand panel with probably 30
circuits. I know Challenger is no longer in business and was bought
by Cutler-Hammer (now Easton Cutler-Hammer, I think). And, I know
that Cutler-Hammer circuit breakers are the replacement for the
existing Challenger BR breakers that I have. But, whether a
replacement hot bus bar part is available, I don't know.

So, again, my main question is: Assuming that the part is available,
is replacing the hot bus bar a fairly easy thing for an electrician
to do?

RogerT wrote:

Thanks everyone for the replies.

I was thinking that if replacing the hot bus bar was an easy and fairly
common thing to do that maybe I would just go that route. I thought that
would avoid the labor involved in having all of the existing cirucits
removed from the old panel, put a new panel in, and reconnect all of the
cirucits. But it appears that even finding the correct replacement bus bar
for the existing panel would be an issue, and the consensus seems to be that
I'd be much better off anyway replacing the entire service panel.

Someone mentioned not reusing the old breakers -- I wouldn't want to do that
anyway and never had that in mind. And, someone else mentioned something
about 14 guage wire being on 20-amp breakers. I don't know where that came
from because there is no 14 guage wire on any 20-amp breakers in the
existing service panel, and I would never do that either.

I don't ever do any service panel replacements on my own. I'm pretty sure I
could figure it out and learn how to do it if needed, but dealing with the
main service power lines that come in to the panel is really out of my
league. Even changing a main breaker is something that I have never done
and I wouldn't want to be doing on my own. I am pretty comfortable with
mostly everything after the main breaker, although I am not so sure I would
want to take on replacing the hot bus bar in a panel.

The good news is that there is an electric company almost next door to where
this property is and I have had them do work there before. I also have a
licensed electrician that I use for new electric service at other properties
I have. So, I can easily get a price for having a new service panel put in
at this property. But, before contacting the almost-next-door electric
company, I wanted to check and see what people here thought of the
possibility of just replacing the bus bar rather than the whole panel. I'll
ask them too when they look at the job, just in case they think it would be
a good idea and they could get the part etc.

I agree that getting 200-amp service instead of 100-amp service is usually
worth it when getting a new service put in. The difference in price is not
that much. When I have done that, the price difference was $200 in one case
and $300 in another. Since that's only a one-time cost, the extra cost
seems negligible to me over the life of the home. In the casses where I was
getting a new service put in, the job included replacing a very old service
and included a new drop being installed. Since that was being done anyway,
I opted for 200-amp service whenever I could. I guess part of the increase
in price from 100-amp to 200-amp service included the increased cost for the
higher guage wire for the drop etc.

In this current property, the drop is already in place for the existing
100-amp service. I don't know the guage of that wire or whether it would
accomodate a new 200-amp (or even 150-amp) service.

Doing the panel replacement is quite easy for your own home, I've done a
number of them over the years and taught "service panel replacement 101"
for a few friends who did their own, all without the slightest issue. It
sounds like you're talking about commercial / rental properties and in
that case you end up with a lot of headaches if you want to do the
upgrade yourself, so you're better off contracting it anyway.

Unless the house has a lot of large electric loads - stove, dryer, heat,
A/C, hot tub, etc. there isn't a real compelling reason to upgrade to
200A service unless you are replacing the panel anyway *and* can confirm
that the service drop and meter base are good for 200A.

On Dec 2, 3:39*pm, "RogerT" wrote:
But, before contacting the almost-next-door electric
company,

So instead of listening to the advice of a licensed contractor with
whom you've had satisfactory business relationship(s) before, you ask
the opinion of a bunch of strangers with no verifiable credentials?

I'm sure the contractor will tell you to replace the panel, and I know
deep down in your gullet, you know that's the correct course of
action. Quit trying to get someone to give you affirmation on your
cheap shortcut fix, and do it right.

wrote in message
...
On Dec 2, 3:39 pm, "RogerT" wrote:
But, before contacting the almost-next-door electric
company,

So instead of listening to the advice of a licensed contractor with
whom you've had satisfactory business relationship(s) before, you ask
the opinion of a bunch of strangers with no verifiable credentials?

I'm sure the contractor will tell you to replace the panel, and I know
deep down in your gullet, you know that's the correct course of
action. Quit trying to get someone to give you affirmation on your
cheap shortcut fix, and do it right.

+++++++++

You're right. Instead of asking the opinion of a bunch of strangers with no
verifiable credentials, I should take your advice. :-)

But, seriously..., I get a lot of good information here. And, from what I
have seen some of the people here writing over the years, it is pretty easy
to recognize that at least some people who post here have a lot of knowledge
and experience that they generously share. I also get good information here
from others whose names I may not have seen before, and whose credentials
are unknown to me, but who nevertheless post excellent information, ideas,
and suggestions that are really helpful. That's why I am here and I assume
that's why you are here.

I don't blindly listen to the advice of licensed contractors, or the people
here, or anyone else. What I like to do is learn as much as I can from a
number of different sources and then make a decision.

wrote:
On Thu, 2 Dec 2010 11:12:26 -0600, "HeyBub"
wrote:

wrote:
-

how old is the main service cable? its likely ancient and ideally
upgrade to 200 amp main with new everything.

the main panel cost difference between 100 amp and 200 amp is pretty
small. plus you can get more breakers in a 200 amp panel


Not necessarilly true. Very often the only difference between a 100
and a 200 is the main breaker - the same number of breaker slots
available on each.

Yep. REALLY small. Like ten bucks.

My mistake. More like $40 difference.

* Square-D 100Amp, 20 spaces, 20 circuits: ~$80.00
http://www.hardwareandtools.com/Squa...r-6745657.html

* Square-D 200Amp, 20 spaces, 40 circuits: ~$120.00
http://www.tooldistrict.com/200a-mai...-square-d.aspx

replying to RogerT, Sandy Eggo wrote:
I just replaced my busbar for $75. The bid to replace my panel was $2,400. In
my case there were two 5/32 bolts and two brackets (that slid in slots) that
held the busbar in place. Turn off you main breaker, and your solar roof
collector if you have one. The busbar is now dead. Unbolt the busbar from the
bottom of your main 200 amp breaker. Remove all circuit breakers. Unscrew two
5/32 bolts from side of busbar, push up on busbar to clear slots, and pull it
out. Every busbar is different. This is how my 200 amp 20 slot Cutler-Hammer
worked. I bought a near new busbar at San Diego Electric on University Avenue.
(619) 283-7031. These folks have a large supply of near new panels and
busbars. It took me about 1.5 hours to complete job. You will see how new
busbar screws in when you buy it. I did use electric tape to tape a 5/32 open
end wrench on a paint stick to reach one of the 5/32 screws that was very near
the hot lead from the street. I did have to get into the hot street side of
the box. In some cases this side of the panel box may be sealed. Mine was seal
was loose. Be very careful here. Use thick rubber gloves and one hand. You do
not want street juice shooting across your chest in case you slip. You can
remove the hot leads from the street one at a time. Place a very large wire
nut over each lead as you remove it. Even after you remove the leads be
extremely careful to not let them touch. Do NOT touch the wires or wire nuts
after you remove these hot street leads. Do not bet you life on the wire nut
staying in place. Work on one wire at a time. I did not have to remove the hot
street leads. Your situation may be different.

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...nt-607647-.htm

On Fri, 07 Jul 2017 11:44:03 GMT, Sandy Eggo
m wrote:

I just replaced my busbar for $75. The bid to replace my panel was $2,400. In
my case there were two 5/32 bolts and two brackets (that slid in slots) that
held the busbar in place. Turn off you main breaker, and your solar roof
collector if you have one. The busbar is now dead. Unbolt the busbar from the
bottom of your main 200 amp breaker. Remove all circuit breakers. Unscrew two
5/32 bolts from side of busbar, push up on busbar to clear slots, and pull it
out. Every busbar is different. This is how my 200 amp 20 slot Cutler-Hammer
worked. I bought a near new busbar at San Diego Electric on University Avenue.
(619) 283-7031. These folks have a large supply of near new panels and
busbars. It took me about 1.5 hours to complete job. You will see how new
busbar screws in when you buy it. I did use electric tape to tape a 5/32 open
end wrench on a paint stick to reach one of the 5/32 screws that was very near
the hot lead from the street. I did have to get into the hot street side of
the box. In some cases this side of the panel box may be sealed. Mine was seal
was loose. Be very careful here. Use thick rubber gloves and one hand. You do
not want street juice shooting across your chest in case you slip. You can
remove the hot leads from the street one at a time. Place a very large wire
nut over each lead as you remove it. Even after you remove the leads be
extremely careful to not let them touch. Do NOT touch the wires or wire nuts
after you remove these hot street leads. Do not bet you life on the wire nut
staying in place. Work on one wire at a time. I did not have to remove the hot
street leads. Your situation may be different.

Much safer is just to call the power company, tell them you are doing
maintenance on your panel and the seal was broken. Cut the seal and
pull the meter.
They will come out and replace the seal. Electricians and inspectors
do this all the time.

posted for all of us...



On Fri, 07 Jul 2017 11:44:03 GMT, Sandy Eggo
m wrote:

I just replaced my busbar for $75. The bid to replace my panel was $2,400. In
my case there were two 5/32 bolts and two brackets (that slid in slots) that
held the busbar in place. Turn off you main breaker, and your solar roof
collector if you have one. The busbar is now dead. Unbolt the busbar from the
bottom of your main 200 amp breaker. Remove all circuit breakers. Unscrew two
5/32 bolts from side of busbar, push up on busbar to clear slots, and pull it
out. Every busbar is different. This is how my 200 amp 20 slot Cutler-Hammer
worked. I bought a near new busbar at San Diego Electric on University Avenue.
(619) 283-7031. These folks have a large supply of near new panels and
busbars. It took me about 1.5 hours to complete job. You will see how new
busbar screws in when you buy it. I did use electric tape to tape a 5/32 open
end wrench on a paint stick to reach one of the 5/32 screws that was very near
the hot lead from the street. I did have to get into the hot street side of
the box. In some cases this side of the panel box may be sealed. Mine was seal
was loose. Be very careful here. Use thick rubber gloves and one hand. You do
not want street juice shooting across your chest in case you slip. You can
remove the hot leads from the street one at a time. Place a very large wire
nut over each lead as you remove it. Even after you remove the leads be
extremely careful to not let them touch. Do NOT touch the wires or wire nuts
after you remove these hot street leads. Do not bet you life on the wire nut
staying in place. Work on one wire at a time. I did not have to remove the hot
street leads. Your situation may be different.

Much safer is just to call the power company, tell them you are doing
maintenance on your panel and the seal was broken. Cut the seal and
pull the meter.
They will come out and replace the seal. Electricians and inspectors
do this all the time.

+ 1000 You beat me to it again.

--
Tekkie

Sandy Eggo m
Fri, 07 Jul 2017 11:44:03 GMT
in alt.home.repair, wrote:

replying to RogerT, Sandy Eggo wrote:
I just replaced my busbar for $75. The bid to replace my panel was
$2,400. In my case there were two 5/32 bolts and two brackets
(that slid in slots) that held the busbar in place. Turn off you
main breaker, and your solar roof collector if you have one. The
busbar is now dead. Unbolt the busbar from the bottom of your main
200 amp breaker. Remove all circuit breakers. Unscrew two 5/32
bolts from side of busbar, push up on busbar to clear slots, and
pull it out. Every busbar is different. This is how my 200 amp 20
slot Cutler-Hammer worked. I bought a near new busbar at San Diego
Electric on University Avenue. (619) 283-7031. These folks have a
large supply of near new panels and busbars. It took me about 1.5
hours to complete job. You will see how new busbar screws in when
you buy it. I did use electric tape to tape a 5/32 open end wrench
on a paint stick to reach one of the 5/32 screws that was very
near the hot lead from the street. I did have to get into the hot
street side of the box. In some cases this side of the panel box
may be sealed. Mine was seal was loose. Be very careful here. Use
thick rubber gloves and one hand. You do not want street juice
shooting across your chest in case you slip. You can remove the
hot leads from the street one at a time. Place a very large wire
nut over each lead as you remove it. Even after you remove the
leads be extremely careful to not let them touch. Do NOT touch the
wires or wire nuts after you remove these hot street leads. Do not
bet you life on the wire nut staying in place. Work on one wire at
a time. I did not have to remove the hot street leads. Your
situation may be different.


street juice? You think it's lower once it's inside the panel or
something? You actually advise people to work a panel where it has two
hots (that are live) coming into it without experience, reliable
knowledge of electricity? It's MUCH safer to call power company and
have them pull the meter for you. That turns those incoming LIVE lines
going into your main breaker, OFF for you. So that you don't accidently
do something stupid and contact one (or both), or cause one (or both)
to short out to neutral and/or ground. That would be bad for you, and,
the transformer won't appreciate you either.


--
https://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php

'In his private heart no man much respects himself' - Mark Twain

On Friday, July 7, 2017 at 9:24:29 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Fri, 07 Jul 2017 11:44:03 GMT, Sandy Eggo
m wrote:

I just replaced my busbar for $75. The bid to replace my panel was $2,400. In
my case there were two 5/32 bolts and two brackets (that slid in slots) that
held the busbar in place. Turn off you main breaker, and your solar roof
collector if you have one. The busbar is now dead. Unbolt the busbar from the
bottom of your main 200 amp breaker. Remove all circuit breakers. Unscrew two
5/32 bolts from side of busbar, push up on busbar to clear slots, and pull it
out. Every busbar is different. This is how my 200 amp 20 slot Cutler-Hammer
worked. I bought a near new busbar at San Diego Electric on University Avenue.
(619) 283-7031. These folks have a large supply of near new panels and
busbars. It took me about 1.5 hours to complete job. You will see how new
busbar screws in when you buy it. I did use electric tape to tape a 5/32 open
end wrench on a paint stick to reach one of the 5/32 screws that was very near
the hot lead from the street. I did have to get into the hot street side of
the box. In some cases this side of the panel box may be sealed. Mine was seal
was loose. Be very careful here. Use thick rubber gloves and one hand. You do
not want street juice shooting across your chest in case you slip. You can
remove the hot leads from the street one at a time. Place a very large wire
nut over each lead as you remove it. Even after you remove the leads be
extremely careful to not let them touch. Do NOT touch the wires or wire nuts
after you remove these hot street leads. Do not bet you life on the wire nut
staying in place. Work on one wire at a time. I did not have to remove the hot
street leads. Your situation may be different.

Much safer is just to call the power company, tell them you are doi ng
maintenance on your panel and the seal was broken. Cut the seal and
pull the meter.
They will come out and replace the seal. Electricians and inspectors
do this all the time.



If you pull a meter around here, the power company knows because the smart meters are networked and human meter readers are no longer necessary. Back when I was working, I would always call the power company when I pulled a meter and not necessarily tell them that electrical work was going on but tell them that repairs to the home were in progress and the meter was pulled for safety reasons. Me and my customers never had a problem with the power company because I always notified them. I know some guys who'd pull a meter and not tell the power company. That behavior caused all kinds of problems.. ヽ(ヅ)ノ

[8~{} Uncle Shocking Monster