Chinese workers build 15-story hotel in just six days

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_upshot/20101112/bs_yblog_upshot/chinese-workers-build-15-story-hotel-in-just-six-days

Be sure to watch the time-lapse video of the construction. Amazing.
--
Work is the curse of the drinking class.

In article ,
Caesar Romano wrote:

Chinese workers build 15-story hotel in just six days

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_upshot...hinese-workers
-build-15-story-hotel-in-just-six-days


They did not build it. They ASSEMBLED it, according to the report.
BIG difference.


Be sure to watch the time-lapse video of the construction. Amazing.

--
"Even I realized that money was to politicians what the ecalyptus tree is to koala bears: food, water, shelter and something to crap on."
---PJ O'Rourke

Caesar Romano wrote the following:
Chinese workers build 15-story hotel in just six days

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_upshot/20101112/bs_yblog_upshot/chinese-workers-build-15-story-hotel-in-just-six-days

Be sure to watch the time-lapse video of the construction. Amazing.


They sure could use a good union. That should have taken at least 9
months and millions more $ to build.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

Kurt Ullman wrote:
Caesar Romano wrote:

Chinese workers build 15-story hotel in just six days

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_upshot...hinese-workers
-build-15-story-hotel-in-just-six-days


They did not build it. They ASSEMBLED it, according to the report.
BIG difference.

Correct. Also, I wouldn't put a lot of faith in Chinese construction
practices:

http://gizmodo.com/5304233/entire-ne...nghai/gallery/

Jon

On Nov 13, 6:26*am, Caesar Romano wrote:
Chinese workers build 15-story hotel in just six days

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_upshot/20101112/bs_yblog_upshot/chinese...

Be sure to watch the time-lapse video of the construction. *Amazing.
--
Work is the curse of the drinking class.

So I guess they had at least three inspectors on duty at the job sight
during the entire construction process to inspect and clear every
phase before the next phase is allowed to begin to make sure it was
done correctly so that it would not pose a hazard to the people in it
once the construction is complete. Yeah!.. sure.

"willshak" wrote in message
m...
Caesar Romano wrote the following:
Chinese workers build 15-story hotel in just six days


http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_upshot.../chinese-worke
rs-build-15-story-hotel-in-just-six-days

Be sure to watch the time-lapse video of the construction. Amazing.


They sure could use a good union. That should have taken at least 9
months and millions more $ to build.

Don't worry. China will experience every growing pain we did, unions
included. It might just take them a while to get there. Maybe if the US
executed more dishonest CEO's like China does, we might have fewer Madoffs
and Enrons plaguing us. Outrageous CEO compensation is every bit as
damaging to our competitiveness as unions are. Maybe even more. When even
a failure of a CEO can walk away with a multimillion dollar golden
parachute, who pays for that? We do.

--
Bobby G.

Kurt Ullman wrote:

In article ,
Caesar Romano wrote:

Chinese workers build 15-story hotel in just six days

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_upshot...hinese-workers
-build-15-story-hotel-in-just-six-days


They did not build it. They ASSEMBLED it, according to the report.
BIG difference.

I agree with you, this is not the amazing feat that it seems to be.

The six days did not include site preparation or foundation work
(referencing Jon Danniken's post, I can only hope they bothered with a
foundation).

Work proceeded 24 hours per day. Tough luck for the neighbors, but in a
communist dictatorship no one complains. There was no true "building" (no
measuring, cutting, welding, riveting, or grinding), there was only prefab
assembly. Six cranes were in service, compared to the usual one or two.

It would also be helpful to have China's cheap 1.3 Billion strong labor
pool.

Tony Sivori
Due to spam, I'm filtering all Google Groups posters.

On Sat, 13 Nov 2010 08:26:11 -0600, Caesar Romano wrote:

Chinese workers build 15-story hotel in just six days

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_upshot/20101112/bs_yblog_upshot/chinese-workers-build-15-story-hotel-in-just-six-days

Be sure to watch the time-lapse video of the construction. Amazing.

Of course earthquakes aren't an issue in China. Oh, wait...

In article ,
" wrote:

On Sat, 13 Nov 2010 08:26:11 -0600, Caesar Romano wrote:

Chinese workers build 15-story hotel in just six days

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_upshot...chinese-worker
s-build-15-story-hotel-in-just-six-days

Be sure to watch the time-lapse video of the construction. Amazing.

Of course earthquakes aren't an issue in China. Oh, wait...

Especially since this has nothing to do with productivity. There was a
big hooha awhile ago about how China became the second biggest economy
passing Japan. That seems to have died down pretty fast after someone
noted the population disparity and how much difference there was in GDP
produced per worker. Not even close.

--
"Even I realized that money was to politicians what the ecalyptus tree is to koala bears: food, water, shelter and something to crap on."
---PJ O'Rourke

On Sat, 13 Nov 2010 12:15:44 -0500, "Robert Green"
wrote:

"willshak" wrote in message
om...
Caesar Romano wrote the following:
Chinese workers build 15-story hotel in just six days


http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_upshot.../chinese-worke
rs-build-15-story-hotel-in-just-six-days

Be sure to watch the time-lapse video of the construction. Amazing.


They sure could use a good union. That should have taken at least 9
months and millions more $ to build.

Don't worry. China will experience every growing pain we did, unions
included. It might just take them a while to get there. Maybe if the US
executed more dishonest CEO's like China does, we might have fewer Madoffs
and Enrons plaguing us.

How about executing a few of the dishonest union heads, too? Same issue.

Outrageous CEO compensation is every bit as
damaging to our competitiveness as unions are. Maybe even more. When even
a failure of a CEO can walk away with a multimillion dollar golden
parachute, who pays for that? We do.

Who pays for the absurd union pensions? Why is one more important than the
other? The one you choose to pick on is a few orders of magnitude less
important in the grand scheme of things.

In article ,
Tony Sivori wrote:

It would also be helpful to have China's cheap 1.3 Billion strong labor
pool.

Tony Sivori
Due to spam, I'm filtering all Google Groups posters.

Saw or read somewhere that throwing labor at projects is the rigour.
That said early productivity gains that are yet to come are or and the
first 50% the easiest to actualize. I'd hazard a guess more things in
my house beside this G5 iMac will be from china. Hell they now have the
fastest computer in the world. Still 1 billion with 800 million out of
the progress loop should be interesting.

Good book if you can find it . "China at work" deals with tools prior
to oil.

--
Bill S. Jersey USA zone 5 shade garden
http://www.informationisbeautiful.ne...l-supplements/

On 2010-11-13, Robert Green wrote:

and Enrons plaguing us. Outrageous CEO compensation is every bit as
damaging to our competitiveness as unions are.

The diff is, outrageous compensations to one CEO benefit only one.
Compensations to unions benefit many. That tired old Star Trek
dilemma, the one versus the many, but true.

The reason unions in this country fell into disfavor is not because
their cause was unjust, but because union oversight was inevitably
left in the hands of the same type of unscrupulous business dirtbags
that unions opposed. After forming a union, the rank and file rapidly
became secondary to union management greed. Most unions rapidly
degerated into a simple monetary power struggle between two fat-cat
dirtbag managerial entities with the working man providing the working
capital.

At one time, major unions like the UAW were setting the std of living
in the US, even though 80% of US working ppl in the US were not
getting anywhere near that scale. The avg bloke became resentful that
GM janitors were makng $13 hr (this back in early 70s).

.....nevermimd. Don't get me started! !

nb

In article ,
" wrote:

Outrageous CEO compensation is every bit as
damaging to our competitiveness as unions are. Maybe even more. When even
a failure of a CEO can walk away with a multimillion dollar golden
parachute, who pays for that? We do.

Who pays for the absurd union pensions? Why is one more important than the
other? The one you choose to pick on is a few orders of magnitude less
important in the grand scheme of things.

I always agree with my UAW buddies that GM and Chrysler were badly
managed. Then I add that included how badly they managed the unions.
They generally argue vehemently against that theory.

--
"Even I realized that money was to politicians what the ecalyptus tree is to koala bears: food, water, shelter and something to crap on."
---PJ O'Rourke

In article ,
notbob wrote:

On 2010-11-13, Robert Green wrote:

and Enrons plaguing us. Outrageous CEO compensation is every bit as
damaging to our competitiveness as unions are.

The diff is, outrageous compensations to one CEO benefit only one.
Compensations to unions benefit many. That tired old Star Trek
dilemma, the one versus the many, but true.


Doesn't benefit everybody if they are non sustainable. GM was going
to close a plant here in Indy. They found a buyer but the deal fell
through because the union refused to accept a lower new hire salary.
Most of them were GM gypsies who could go to a different plant (and did)
but they still made sure the plant was closed so 600 other people
couldn't have job and the local schools lost something like $5 million
in property taxes alone.

The outrageous compensations (at least over the last 20 years or so)
were largely driven by Congress playing around tax laws. If you read
K-1s and proxy statements, you will find that most honchoes are paid a
salary in the area of $1 million. That is because, under the tax laws,
salaries above that are not as easily deductible, thus essentially
providing a cap.

That same law also took away all tax consequences to "performance
based" bonuses or stock options grants. This was to, in the eyes of
Congress anyway, to help align the interests of the honchoes with the
interests of the shareholders.

What happened in real life, with the stocks going up for the most part
during that time, is that they were getting around $1 million to
actually run the company (their salary) and 10 or even 100 times that to
cook... er run.. the books. All of a sudden the interests of the
honchoes were no longer in synch with the shareholders.

Ooops.

Of course now the big bucks have turned into an entitlement.

--
"Even I realized that money was to politicians what the ecalyptus tree is to koala bears: food, water, shelter and something to crap on."
---PJ O'Rourke

On Sat, 13 Nov 2010 19:03:55 GMT, notbob wrote Re
OT Chinese productivity:

The reason unions in this country fell into disfavor is not because
their cause was unjust, but because union oversight was inevitably
left in the hands of the same type of unscrupulous business dirtbags
that unions opposed. After forming a union, the rank and file rapidly
became secondary to union management greed. Most unions rapidly
degerated into a simple monetary power struggle between two fat-cat
dirtbag managerial entities with the working man providing the working
capital.

Good points.
--
Work is the curse of the drinking class.

On Sat, 13 Nov 2010 12:41:18 -0500, Tony Sivori
wrote Re OT Chinese productivity:

Kurt Ullman wrote:

In article ,
Caesar Romano wrote:

Chinese workers build 15-story hotel in just six days

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_upshot...hinese-workers
-build-15-story-hotel-in-just-six-days


They did not build it. They ASSEMBLED it, according to the report.
BIG difference.

I agree with you, this is not the amazing feat that it seems to be.

The six days did not include site preparation or foundation work
(referencing Jon Danniken's post, I can only hope they bothered with a
foundation).

Work proceeded 24 hours per day. Tough luck for the neighbors, but in a
communist dictatorship no one complains. There was no true "building" (no
measuring, cutting, welding, riveting, or grinding), there was only prefab
assembly. Six cranes were in service, compared to the usual one or two.

Good excuses, but in the end they are the ones getting the job done
and the Western countries are the ones loosing the jobs. They are on
the way up; we are on the way down; and we are just passing in the
middle.
--
Work is the curse of the drinking class.

"notbob" wrote in message
...
On 2010-11-13, Robert Green wrote:

and Enrons plaguing us. Outrageous CEO compensation is every bit as
damaging to our competitiveness as unions are.

The diff is, outrageous compensations to one CEO benefit only one.
Compensations to unions benefit many. That tired old Star Trek
dilemma, the one versus the many, but true.

I tried to phrase it neutrally because I believe in unions (although my wife
does not and her dad was actually a "union buster" for one of the nation's
largest chemical companies). However I feel about it, unionized workers
have a hard time producing items anywhere near the low cost that a
Vietnamese non-union worker getting 200 piasters a day (which, IIRC, was
about a dollar). And like it or not, that's one aspect of globalization:
we now have to compete with low-wage earners across the world. One of the
few strategies that can succeed against ultra-low labor costs is to compete
on quality, not on price.

The reason unions in this country fell into disfavor is not because
their cause was unjust, but because union oversight was inevitably
left in the hands of the same type of unscrupulous business dirtbags
that unions opposed. After forming a union, the rank and file rapidly
became secondary to union management greed. Most unions rapidly
degerated into a simple monetary power struggle between two fat-cat
dirtbag managerial entities with the working man providing the working
capital.

No argument here. Unions became somehow associated with Communism and much
law enforcement "muscle" became dedicated to eradicating them. The unions
didn't help their own cause by installing guys like Jimmy Hoffa.

At one time, major unions like the UAW were setting the std of living
in the US, even though 80% of US working ppl in the US were not
getting anywhere near that scale. The avg bloke became resentful that
GM janitors were makng $13 hr (this back in early 70s).

I have some rabid anti-union friends who can describe a lot of situations
where union rules raised the costs of project unconscionably but I can point
to an equal number of cases where employers would have paid workers in
popsicle sticks without union representation (hyperbole alert!).

As I've said before, if you're the company founder, there should be no
limits on your compensation - it was your baby and you raised it to be a
winner. The problem, for me, is when some outsider thinks that taking over
the helm of a "grown up" and prosperous company merits the same compensation
level as the man/woman/people that often risked all they had to growt a
business like HP into a national concern with enormous revenues. These
"downstream" CEOs are mostly looters, IMHO, and they get paid outrageous
sums for very little contribution to the company's bottom line. Our
businesses would likely be far more competitive if a CEO's $38M severance
package got plowed back into the company in the form of more jobs, capital
investment and even plain old advertising. The CEO deserves the same kind
of severance package most workers get: A hardy handshake and a COBRA
application.

It's important that people are allowed to get rich off their ideas and hard
work. It's far less important that a guy who had nothing at all to do with
growing the business gets the same compensation as a founder.

....nevermimd. Don't get me started! !

Hell, why not? This OT thread is actually labeled OT. I am sure that there
are many here that feel unions are a cancer on business and without them, we
would never have had a failing manufacturing sector.

--
Bobby G.

In article ,
"Robert Green" wrote:

I tried to phrase it neutrally because I believe in unions (although my wife
does not and her dad was actually a "union buster" for one of the nation's
largest chemical companies). However I feel about it, unionized workers
have a hard time producing items anywhere near the low cost that a
Vietnamese non-union worker getting 200 piasters a day (which, IIRC, was
about a dollar). And like it or not, that's one aspect of globalization:
we now have to compete with low-wage earners across the world. One of the
few strategies that can succeed against ultra-low labor costs is to compete
on quality, not on price.

Yet, especially in the US, the competition is on price. Look at the
rise of WalMart, et al. Back in the day, WM used to advertise their
made in America stuff. Few bought it, so they tossed in the towel.
Weren't the only ones.
I, once again, have to invoke the Pogo Principle: We have met the
enemy and he is us.


No argument here. Unions became somehow associated with Communism and much
law enforcement "muscle" became dedicated to eradicating them. The unions
didn't help their own cause by installing guys like Jimmy Hoffa.
And jumping into bed with the Mob. Most of the early mob money in
Vegas came from the Teamsters.

--
"Even I realized that money was to politicians what the ecalyptus tree is to koala bears: food, water, shelter and something to crap on."
---PJ O'Rourke

wrote in message
...

Who pays for the absurd union pensions? Why is one more important than
the
other? The one you choose to pick on is a few orders of magnitude less
important in the grand scheme of things.

The worker & the company pay for the pensions, instead of paying into SS
like the worker & company. Why do you call them absurd?

Somehow I got the feeling you're jealous of those who planned life better
than you did. Now that's absurd.

wrote in message
...

Who pays for the absurd union pensions? Why is one more important than
the
other? The one you choose to pick on is a few orders of magnitude less
important in the grand scheme of things.

The worker & the company pay for the pensions, instead of paying into SS
like the worker & company. Why do you call them absurd?

Somehow I got the feeling you're jealous of those who planned life better
than you did. Now that's absurd.

"Robert Green" wrote in message
...
"notbob" wrote in message
...
On 2010-11-13, Robert Green wrote:

and Enrons plaguing us. Outrageous CEO compensation is every bit as
damaging to our competitiveness as unions are.

The diff is, outrageous compensations to one CEO benefit only one.
Compensations to unions benefit many. That tired old Star Trek
dilemma, the one versus the many, but true.



I tried to phrase it neutrally because I believe in unions (although my
wife
does not and her dad was actually a "union buster" for one of the
nation's
largest chemical companies). However I feel about it, unionized workers
have a hard time producing items anywhere near the low cost that a
Vietnamese non-union worker getting 200 piasters a day (which, IIRC, was
about a dollar). And like it or not, that's one aspect of globalization:
we now have to compete with low-wage earners across the world.

And some stand on the sidelines cheering, as we turn the USA into a third
world country.

We don't have to compete with a third world nation wages. That is unless
people want to see our Nation turned into a third world country.

If you've done any traveling. The USA already seems decades behind
industrialized countries, especially in the transportation. If you ever get
a chance, travel. Coming back to the USA appears like you step back in
time. Amazing & sad at the same time.

"Johnny" wrote in message

stuff snipped

And like it or not, that's one aspect of globalization:
we now have to compete with low-wage earners across the world.

And some stand on the sidelines cheering, as we turn the USA into a third
world country.

We don't have to compete with a third world nation wages. That is unless
people want to see our Nation turned into a third world country.

How, exactly, would you accomplish liberating us from competing against
China when 9 out of 10 items in most every store in the nation comes from
China or some other low wage country? When the unfunded pension and
benefits liabilities of the state and local governments snowball in the not
to distant future, we'll surely be way up ****'s Creek with a leaky boat and
no paddles. Sadly, I think we're already way too far down the line in this
process to reverse it short of a comet destroying the other side of the
world.

If you've done any traveling. The USA already seems decades behind
industrialized countries, especially in the transportation. If you ever
get
a chance, travel. Coming back to the USA appears like you step back in
time. Amazing & sad at the same time.

You're preaching to the choir. We're way down the list on lots of things
these days. High speed rail and internet access, infant mortality, bang for
our health care bucks, etc. When Chinese companies began buying US
factories and brand names like they were Black Friday sale items, the
writing on the wall became clear. The problem is, how do we reverse that
trend? Obama could have put that TARP money into building the the US into
the world's premier solar cell makers and let all the speculators that got
burned shift for themselves, but instead he paid off the people that crashed
the economy from the savings and taxes of people who did nothing but work
hard all their lives, never expecting something for nothing the way Wall
Streeters do.

When we lose our reputation as the investment center of the world (it's
already passing to China) completely is when we'll be circling the drain of
history, waving the American flag to the last gurgle. If you know how to
stop this process, I am all ears. I don't think it can be done because it's
basically physics. China et al. will drag our standard of living down as
the dollars we send them pull their standard of living up. Water and money
seek their own levels. As the Japanese say, the standing up nail gets
hammered down.

--
Bobby G.

On Sat, 13 Nov 2010 16:56:48 -0500, "Johnny" wrote:


wrote in message
.. .

Who pays for the absurd union pensions? Why is one more important than
the
other? The one you choose to pick on is a few orders of magnitude less
important in the grand scheme of things.

The worker & the company pay for the pensions, instead of paying into SS
like the worker & company. Why do you call them absurd?

They get both.

Somehow I got the feeling you're jealous of those who planned life better
than you did. Now that's absurd.

We're bankrupt and you're job is to play shrink on the Usenet. You're an
idiot.

On Sat, 13 Nov 2010 16:57:00 -0500, "Johnny" wrote:


wrote in message
.. .

Who pays for the absurd union pensions? Why is one more important than
the
other? The one you choose to pick on is a few orders of magnitude less
important in the grand scheme of things.

The worker & the company pay for the pensions, instead of paying into SS
like the worker & company. Why do you call them absurd?

Somehow I got the feeling you're jealous of those who planned life better
than you did. Now that's absurd.


They didn't "plan life" at all, johnny. They stole it from future
generations.

wrote in message
...
On Sat, 13 Nov 2010 16:56:48 -0500, "Johnny" wrote:


wrote in message
. ..

Who pays for the absurd union pensions? Why is one more important than
the
other? The one you choose to pick on is a few orders of magnitude less
important in the grand scheme of things.

The worker & the company pay for the pensions, instead of paying into SS
like the worker & company. Why do you call them absurd?

They get both.

Exactly who is getting both? SS takes $1 after "x" amount from other
sources. No federal or state employee collects both, maybe in the private
sector, but as I said, you're only allowed to collect so much.


Somehow I got the feeling you're jealous of those who planned life better
than you did. Now that's absurd.

We're bankrupt and you're job is to play shrink on the Usenet. You're an
idiot.

SS is in fact not part of the Budget, of course if you did your homework,
you would know that. So who is the idiot?

wrote in message
...
On Sat, 13 Nov 2010 16:57:00 -0500, "Johnny" wrote:


wrote in message
. ..

Who pays for the absurd union pensions? Why is one more important than
the
other? The one you choose to pick on is a few orders of magnitude less
important in the grand scheme of things.

The worker & the company pay for the pensions, instead of paying into SS
like the worker & company. Why do you call them absurd?

Somehow I got the feeling you're jealous of those who planned life better
than you did. Now that's absurd.


They didn't "plan life" at all, johnny. They stole it from future
generations.

Private pensions stole from future generations? LOL... What makes you think
you have a right to someone's private pension?

If it's a public pension, the government & EMPLOYEE pay into it. You have
no right to their savings. How about giving your 401 to people, oh now
that's different.

On 13 Nov 2010 23:17:35 GMT, "Lisa BB." wrote:

Caesar Romano wrote in
:

Chinese workers build 15-story hotel in just six days

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_upshot...pshot/chinese-
workers-build-15-story-hotel-in-just-six-days

Be sure to watch the time-lapse video of the construction. Amazing.

I recently bought a handbag from eBay. It came from China. Boy does it
have a terrible smell. Smells like bad gasoline. I have it airing out
in another room I hardly go into. Somebody told me it could be the dye
they used. I can't use it until the smell goes away. Maybe I'll set it
outside and a squirrel can pee on it and make the smell go away.

Does it smell like Harbor Freight? I thought that's what China smelled like.
;-)

"Robert Green" wrote in message
...
"Johnny" wrote in message

stuff snipped

And like it or not, that's one aspect of globalization:
we now have to compete with low-wage earners across the world.

And some stand on the sidelines cheering, as we turn the USA into a
third
world country.

We don't have to compete with a third world nation wages. That is unless
people want to see our Nation turned into a third world country.

How, exactly, would you accomplish liberating us from competing against
China when 9 out of 10 items in most every store in the nation comes from
China or some other low wage country? When the unfunded pension and
benefits liabilities of the state and local governments snowball in the
not
to distant future, we'll surely be way up ****'s Creek with a leaky boat
and
no paddles. Sadly, I think we're already way too far down the line in
this
process to reverse it short of a comet destroying the other side of the
world.

People should go to jail "if" pensions were underfunded. There are ones who
have a fiduciary responsiblity for this very reason. Employees pay into
these pensions, along with their employer (government). It would be like
having a 401 with employer matching up to "x" amount, then the employer
saying "sorry" there's no money. And, everyone would say don't pay the
retirement, in order to keep the company afloat.

As far as competition, the competition is building plants here. Workers
flock to them. I wouldn't care if I worked for a foreign company or not. If
big so called "American" companies want to keep a handful of jobs here, and
outsource the rest, that's their right. But, they shouldn't be crying "buy
American" just because they're using the loopholes here. Back to China,
they are now taxing all foreign companies building/operating in their
country @ 30%. "American" used to hide behind the loopholes here & in
China. The chicken is coming home to roost, or whatever that saying is.

On Sat, 13 Nov 2010 20:20:53 -0500, "Johnny" wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 13 Nov 2010 19:50:29 -0500, "Johnny" wrote:


wrote in message
...
On Sat, 13 Nov 2010 18:52:23 -0500, "Johnny" wrote:


wrote in message
om...
On Sat, 13 Nov 2010 16:57:00 -0500, "Johnny" wrote:


wrote in message
news:6emtd6520qgetmj0fdn0vsn5iul62f2uki@4ax .com...

Who pays for the absurd union pensions? Why is one more important
than
the
other? The one you choose to pick on is a few orders of magnitude
less
important in the grand scheme of things.

The worker & the company pay for the pensions, instead of paying into
SS
like the worker & company. Why do you call them absurd?

Somehow I got the feeling you're jealous of those who planned life
better
than you did. Now that's absurd.


They didn't "plan life" at all, johnny. They stole it from future
generations.

Private pensions stole from future generations? LOL... What makes you
think
you have a right to someone's private pension?

Any that aren't 100% funded, yes, and there are damned few of those.
That
would include almost all state and local pensions and *all* federal
pensions.

If it's a public pension, the government & EMPLOYEE pay into it. You
have
no right to their savings. How about giving your 401 to people, oh now
that's different.

You're completely clueless.

Time to put up, or shut up. I supplied you some proof, all you appear to
have is a mouth, which can't back anything up.

You've supplied nothing, other that which proves my point. You are as
clueless as they come.

LOL... Can't read or comprehend, huh? My bad!

Yes, you can't and yes, you are.

"Tony Sivori" wrote

They did not build it. They ASSEMBLED it, according to the report.
BIG difference.

I agree with you, this is not the amazing feat that it seems to be.

The six days did not include site preparation or foundation work
(referencing Jon Danniken's post, I can only hope they bothered with a
foundation).

Work proceeded 24 hours per day. Tough luck for the neighbors, but in a
communist dictatorship no one complains. There was no true "building" (no
measuring, cutting, welding, riveting, or grinding), there was only prefab
assembly. Six cranes were in service, compared to the usual one or two.

IMO, it was still quite a feat. There was a lot of prep work done and good
engineering and planning to pull it off, but still a lot of work at the job
site.

We've bought some tooling from China over the past few years. It is just as
good quality as the US build, but in 3 weeks (delivered) instead of 12 and
$20,000 instead of $35,000.

"Robert Green" wrote
The diff is, outrageous compensations to one CEO benefit only one.
Compensations to unions benefit many. That tired old Star Trek
dilemma, the one versus the many, but true.

I tried to phrase it neutrally because I believe in unions (although my
wife
does not and her dad was actually a "union buster" for one of the nation's
largest chemical companies).

If it was 1930, I'd probably be a union organizer. I have no use for unions
since my working career started in 1963 though. I've worked in shops with
unions and negotiated with them.

Workers were exploited and treated poorly for centuries. Unions stopped
most of that and truly fought for and made big gains for the working man.
At some point though, companies found that they actually do better fiscally
and have better employees by paying a good wage and offering good benefits.
This would not have happened without the strong unions.

Sadly, some of the unions are little more than a group of thugs taking dues
from workers for their own personal gain. Watch the union boss pull up in
his big Caddy to tell the modest workers they should be out there picketing
so they can get better benefits. Like bigger contributions to the Union
Welfare Fund. At one company we paid the workers more than the contract
wages. We had to in order to attract workers in the free market. Supply
and demand at work.

Caesar Romano wrote:

On Sat, 13 Nov 2010 12:41:18 -0500, Tony Sivori
wrote Re OT Chinese productivity:

Kurt Ullman wrote:

In article ,
Caesar Romano wrote:

Chinese workers build 15-story hotel in just six days

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_upshot...hinese-workers
-build-15-story-hotel-in-just-six-days


They did not build it. They ASSEMBLED it, according to the report.
BIG difference.

I agree with you, this is not the amazing feat that it seems to be.

The six days did not include site preparation or foundation work
(referencing Jon Danniken's post, I can only hope they bothered with a
foundation).

Work proceeded 24 hours per day. Tough luck for the neighbors, but in a
communist dictatorship no one complains. There was no true "building" (no
measuring, cutting, welding, riveting, or grinding), there was only
prefab assembly. Six cranes were in service, compared to the usual one or
two.

Good excuses, but in the end they are the ones getting the job done and
the Western countries are the ones loosing the jobs.

Those are not excuses. They are reasons and facts.

We're losing jobs because of corporate greed. Why pay a decent, living
wage when you can instead abuse the economically disadvantaged?

They are on the way up; we are on the way down; and we are just passing
in the middle.

American worker productivity is much higher than Chinese workers.

"U.S. Workers World's Most Productive"

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/...n3228735.shtml

--
Tony Sivori
Due to spam, I'm filtering all Google Groups posters.

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

"Tony Sivori" wrote

They did not build it. They ASSEMBLED it, according to the report.
BIG difference.

I agree with you, this is not the amazing feat that it seems to be.

The six days did not include site preparation or foundation work
(referencing Jon Danniken's post, I can only hope they bothered with a
foundation).

Work proceeded 24 hours per day. Tough luck for the neighbors, but in a
communist dictatorship no one complains. There was no true "building"
(no
measuring, cutting, welding, riveting, or grinding), there was only
prefab
assembly. Six cranes were in service, compared to the usual one or two.

IMO, it was still quite a feat. There was a lot of prep work done and good
engineering and planning to pull it off, but still a lot of work at the
job
site.

In the 1950's that was the USA putting up places like Levittown. I just saw
a time-lapse film of the way they built those homes. They broke it down
into I believe 27 steps and even had a crew that did nothing but install and
bolt down the free washing machines that came with each home (and TV!).
Parts of China look like the US in 1880's and parts look like the US in the
1950's and parts look just like the USA today.

We've bought some tooling from China over the past few years. It is just
as
good quality as the US build, but in 3 weeks (delivered) instead of 12 and
$20,000 instead of $35,000.

Does the time lag represent a backup or lack of capacity in US toolmakers or
are there so many Chinese machinists and factory floor space available for
the price of one US machinist that they can work work four times as fast?
Fast turnaround is really a competitive advantage because there hasn't been
a place I've worked that didn't want their specialized *whatever* the day
that they ordered it. (-;

--
Bobby G.

On Sat, 13 Nov 2010 17:27:51 -0500, "Robert Green"
wrote Re OT Chinese productivity:

If you've done any traveling. The USA already seems decades behind
industrialized countries, especially in the transportation. If you ever get
a chance, travel. Coming back to the USA appears like you step back in
time. Amazing & sad at the same time.

You're preaching to the choir. We're way down the list on lots of things
these days. High speed rail and internet access, infant mortality, bang for
our health care bucks, etc. When Chinese companies began buying US
factories and brand names like they were Black Friday sale items, the
writing on the wall became clear. The problem is, how do we reverse that
trend? Obama could have put that TARP money into building the the US into
the world's premier solar cell makers and let all the speculators that got
burned shift for themselves, but instead he paid off the people that crashed
the economy from the savings and taxes of people who did nothing but work
hard all their lives, never expecting something for nothing the way Wall
Streeters do.

When we lose our reputation as the investment center of the world

It's coming soon with the Fed's new "let's print money" inflationary
policy.

(it's
already passing to China) completely is when we'll be circling the drain of
history, waving the American flag to the last gurgle. If you know how to
stop this process, I am all ears. I don't think it can be done because it's
basically physics. China et al. will drag our standard of living down as
the dollars we send them pull their standard of living up. Water and money
seek their own levels. As the Japanese say, the standing up nail gets
hammered down.

Very well said, and worth IMO repeating.
--
Work is the curse of the drinking class.

On Sat, 13 Nov 2010 23:33:56 -0500, "Ed Pawlowski"
wrote Re OT Chinese productivity:

We've bought some tooling from China over the past few years. It is just as
good quality as the US build, but in 3 weeks (delivered) instead of 12 and
$20,000 instead of $35,000.

Just curious. What kind of tooling?
--
Work is the curse of the drinking class.

On Sun, 14 Nov 2010 00:12:51 -0500, Tony Sivori
wrote Re OT Chinese productivity:

American worker productivity is much higher than Chinese workers.

"U.S. Workers World's Most Productive"

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/...n3228735.shtml

So how is it that they are beating the crap out of us?
--
Work is the curse of the drinking class.

I've heard that some US families found Chinese made baby food formulas
to be toxic. With their version of safety and quality standards. Makes
me wonder how they can make so many people. I wonder if they have a
high incidence of illness and mortality?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Lisa BB."
wrote in message
eb.com...

I recently bought a handbag from eBay. It came from China. Boy does
it
have a terrible smell. Smells like bad gasoline. I have it airing
out
in another room I hardly go into. Somebody told me it could be the
dye
they used. I can't use it until the smell goes away. Maybe I'll set
it
outside and a squirrel can pee on it and make the smell go away.

"Caesar Romano" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 13 Nov 2010 17:27:51 -0500, "Robert Green"
wrote Re OT Chinese productivity:

If you've done any traveling. The USA already seems decades behind
industrialized countries, especially in the transportation. If you ever
get
a chance, travel. Coming back to the USA appears like you step back in
time. Amazing & sad at the same time.

You're preaching to the choir. We're way down the list on lots of things
these days. High speed rail and internet access, infant mortality, bang
for
our health care bucks, etc. When Chinese companies began buying US
factories and brand names like they were Black Friday sale items, the
writing on the wall became clear. The problem is, how do we reverse that
trend? Obama could have put that TARP money into building the the US
into
the world's premier solar cell makers and let all the speculators that
got
burned shift for themselves, but instead he paid off the people that
crashed
the economy from the savings and taxes of people who did nothing but work
hard all their lives, never expecting something for nothing the way Wall
Streeters do.

When we lose our reputation as the investment center of the world

It's coming soon with the Fed's new "let's print money" inflationary
policy.

Once again, the Feds are punishing people who did the right thing, lived
with in their means, saved for a rainy day and didn't engage in risky
speculation with OPM (other people's money). I believe it shows that the
Feds are completely lost, don't have an idea what to do, and never thought
about what would happen when they kept dropping interest rates to
"stimulate" the economy and finally got so close to 0% that the economy just
stalled out like a car with a flooded carburetor.

(it's
already passing to China) completely is when we'll be circling the drain
of
history, waving the American flag to the last gurgle. If you know how to
stop this process, I am all ears. I don't think it can be done because
it's
basically physics. China et al. will drag our standard of living down as
the dollars we send them pull their standard of living up. Water and
money
seek their own levels. As the Japanese say, the standing up nail gets
hammered down.

Very well said, and worth IMO repeating.

Yes, but who's listening? Certainly not the Feds. Sadly I think the
biggest boost to the recent economy came from all the attack ads that
candidates ran on both sides, which are rapidly approaching the level of:
"Don't vote for Joe Smith - he'll kill your whole damn family *including*
the dog!"

--
Bobby G.

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
I've heard that some US families found Chinese made baby food formulas
to be toxic. With their version of safety and quality standards. Makes
me wonder how they can make so many people. I wonder if they have a
high incidence of illness and mortality?

China's 103rd on the infant mortality list with an infant mortality rate
(deaths/1,000 live births) of 23.0 and an under-five mortality rate
(deaths/1,000 live births)

We come in 33rd with 6.3 and 7.8

The worst places are 194th place Afghanistan with 157.0 and 235.4 and 195th
place "winner" Sierra Leone with 160.3 and 278.1, respectively. There death
rates, especially for children 5 years and younger, is not so much a medical
issue. The high death rate comes from the conficts raging in both
countries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...mortality_rate

Number one on the UN list (the CIA factbook rankings are slightly different)
is Iceland with figure of 2.9 and 3.9. Japan and the Scandavian countries
also rank quite high (much higher than us!).

The Chinese government executed the CEO's responsible for the melamine
poisoning. It was added to infant formula in order to boost the protein
readings on tests. The formula had been watered down for profit reasons,
and the melamine was supposed to "cover" for the dilution. There are
thousands of Chinese infants now suffering from severe kidney impairment
since melamine forms severe kidney stones and the true scale of the disaster
may not be known for years. Based on my co-worker's experience with
adopting two Chinese girls, they'll be trying to foist a fair number of
those kids on us after sanitizing their medical records to conceal the
poisoning. My friend's little girl got a very "thorough" and *very*
expensive battery of tests done on her by the Chinese adoption doctors, got
a totally clean bill of health and when she got her first US checkup was
found to be infected with Hep C.

We should consider ourselves lucky that they only added melamine to our pet
food, killing our cats and dogs but not our children. Those commies sure
learned the worst ways of capitalism in a very short time. The melamine
crisis is one of but many problems the Chinese have with their food supply
and they have since become much more concerned with making it safer but
they're not having what you would call sterling results. And that's even
AFTER they put the melamine cheaters to death. So much for the deterrent
effect of capital punishment.

--
Bobby G.

On Sun, 14 Nov 2010 08:23:39 -0500, "Robert Green"
wrote Re OT Chinese productivity:

We should consider ourselves lucky that they only added melamine to our pet
food, killing our cats and dogs but not our children. Those commies sure
learned the worst ways of capitalism in a very short time. The melamine
crisis is one of but many problems the Chinese have with their food supply
and they have since become much more concerned with making it safer but
they're not having what you would call sterling results. And that's even
AFTER they put the melamine cheaters to death. So much for the deterrent
effect of capital punishment.

The deterrent effect of capital punishment depends on two factors:

1) probably of being caught/convicted.

2) probably of being executed.

For the melamine scandal the trials/executions where just window
dressing to assure the world that China is on top of the problem. If
the world press had not publicized the problem, the guilty melamine
CEOs would have just received a slap on the wrist.

In China (1) and (2) above are not likely unless the offenders
threaten Chinese marketing.

How likely and effective do you think (1) and (2) are for people who
threaten the Chinese power structure?

It's always about money and power.
--
Work is the curse of the drinking class.