http://pure-gas.org/

Myself, and aparently many others. Find that the new "10% ethanol"
motor fuel gives about 15% less fuel mileage. I don't see a lot of
advantage to planting, harvesting and distilling to make a fuel that
provides less mileage. Wish I knew where to buy the old style
gasoline. Well, now, here is a list of stations that provide the old
style gasoline.

Now, you can know, also.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...

http://pure-gas.org/

Myself, and aparently many others. Find that the new "10% ethanol"
motor fuel gives about 15% less fuel mileage. I don't see a lot of
advantage to planting, harvesting and distilling to make a fuel that
provides less mileage. Wish I knew where to buy the old style
gasoline. Well, now, here is a list of stations that provide the old
style gasoline.

Now, you can know, also.



I was excited for a second. My state (CT and MA) is not listed and not
allowed to sell pure gas in winter.

Stormin Mormon wrote:
http://pure-gas.org/

Myself, and aparently many others. Find that the new "10% ethanol"
motor fuel gives about 15% less fuel mileage. I don't see a lot of
advantage to planting, harvesting and distilling to make a fuel that
provides less mileage. Wish I knew where to buy the old style
gasoline. Well, now, here is a list of stations that provide the old
style gasoline.

Now, you can know, also.

Got an FBO (Fixed Base Operator) near you? Buy 100 Octane aviation gas and
you're good to go.

On Nov 3, 1:51*am, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
* * *http://pure-gas.org/

Myself, and aparently many others. Find that the new "10% ethanol"
motor fuel gives about 15% less fuel mileage. I don't see a lot of
advantage to planting, harvesting and distilling to make a fuel that
provides less mileage. Wish I knew where to buy the old style
gasoline. Well, now, here is a list of stations that provide the old
style gasoline.

Now, you can know, also.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
*www.lds.org
.

Winter is comming, alcohol absorbes water that used to sometimes
freeze a bad batch of gas when it was below zero, I dont worry about
that now. I dont know if its fuel injectors that help but freezing
isnt an issue like it used to be.

On 11/3/2010 5:52 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...

http://pure-gas.org/

Myself, and aparently many others. Find that the new "10% ethanol"
motor fuel gives about 15% less fuel mileage. I don't see a lot of
advantage to planting, harvesting and distilling to make a fuel that
provides less mileage. Wish I knew where to buy the old style
gasoline. Well, now, here is a list of stations that provide the old
style gasoline.

Now, you can know, also.



I was excited for a second. My state (CT and MA) is not listed and not
allowed to sell pure gas in winter.


None in my area and I know why. My buddy has a liquid fuels business and
he said the government is pulling more money out of our pockets to
subsidize ethanol so the wholesale price of ethanol blended gas is now
quite a bit lower than "pure gas". There were two nearby stations that
sold only "pure gas" who recently converted to ethanol because they
couldn't compete with the subsidized product.

On 11/3/2010 7:29 AM, HeyBub wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote:
http://pure-gas.org/

Myself, and aparently many others. Find that the new "10% ethanol"
motor fuel gives about 15% less fuel mileage. I don't see a lot of
advantage to planting, harvesting and distilling to make a fuel that
provides less mileage. Wish I knew where to buy the old style
gasoline. Well, now, here is a list of stations that provide the old
style gasoline.

Now, you can know, also.

Got an FBO (Fixed Base Operator) near you? Buy 100 Octane aviation gas and
you're good to go.




And poison your catalytic converter..

And your great information could cost someone a grand if they didn't
realize you just like to screw with people...

On 11/3/2010 8:48 AM, ransley wrote:
On Nov 3, 1:51 am, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
http://pure-gas.org/

Myself, and aparently many others. Find that the new "10% ethanol"
motor fuel gives about 15% less fuel mileage. I don't see a lot of
advantage to planting, harvesting and distilling to make a fuel that
provides less mileage. Wish I knew where to buy the old style
gasoline. Well, now, here is a list of stations that provide the old
style gasoline.

Now, you can know, also.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

Winter is comming, alcohol absorbes water that used to sometimes
freeze a bad batch of gas when it was below zero, I dont worry about
that now. I dont know if its fuel injectors that help but freezing
isnt an issue like it used to be.

Other than ethanol blend I think the major reason is that all modern
vehicles constantly recirculate the fuel whenever running so it keeps
whatever water that may be present in suspension.

Yes, that sounds like the USA that we now inhabit. The government
forces the market to do this or that, using taxpayer dollars against
our will. If we wanted gasohol, we'd buy it. Now, there is only one
station listed that is any where near enough to me to be practical to
drive there. And that station, I'm only near there every couple weeks.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"George"
wrote in message ...


I was excited for a second. My state (CT and MA) is not listed and
not
allowed to sell pure gas in winter.


None in my area and I know why. My buddy has a liquid fuels business
and
he said the government is pulling more money out of our pockets to
subsidize ethanol so the wholesale price of ethanol blended gas is now
quite a bit lower than "pure gas". There were two nearby stations
that
sold only "pure gas" who recently converted to ethanol because they
couldn't compete with the subsidized product.

On 11/3/2010 1:51 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
http://pure-gas.org/

Myself, and aparently many others. Find that the new "10% ethanol"
motor fuel gives about 15% less fuel mileage. I don't see a lot of
advantage to planting, harvesting and distilling to make a fuel that
provides less mileage. Wish I knew where to buy the old style
gasoline. Well, now, here is a list of stations that provide the old
style gasoline.

Now, you can know, also.



The the whole point of the E is to REDUCE the amount of O (oil) we use.
And if it can be done for the same price (or less) , or even a bit
more, then why not? I burn E85 in my flex fuel vehicle every chance I
get. Yes, it does get 25% less mileage, but the cost of the fuel is
usually 20 - 30% less than the regular gas at a given time.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On 11/3/2010 6:29 AM, HeyBub wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote:
http://pure-gas.org/

Myself, and aparently many others. Find that the new "10% ethanol"
motor fuel gives about 15% less fuel mileage. I don't see a lot of
advantage to planting, harvesting and distilling to make a fuel that
provides less mileage. Wish I knew where to buy the old style
gasoline. Well, now, here is a list of stations that provide the old
style gasoline.

Now, you can know, also.

Got an FBO (Fixed Base Operator) near you? Buy 100 Octane aviation gas and
you're good to go.



yes and in addition to screwing up your CAT, you can also be nailed for
not paying road tax.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On 11/3/2010 7:59 AM, George wrote:
On 11/3/2010 8:48 AM, ransley wrote:
On Nov 3, 1:51 am, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
http://pure-gas.org/

Myself, and aparently many others. Find that the new "10% ethanol"
motor fuel gives about 15% less fuel mileage. I don't see a lot of
advantage to planting, harvesting and distilling to make a fuel that
provides less mileage. Wish I knew where to buy the old style
gasoline. Well, now, here is a list of stations that provide the old
style gasoline.

Now, you can know, also.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

Winter is comming, alcohol absorbes water that used to sometimes
freeze a bad batch of gas when it was below zero, I dont worry about
that now. I dont know if its fuel injectors that help but freezing
isnt an issue like it used to be.

Other than ethanol blend I think the major reason is that all modern
vehicles constantly recirculate the fuel whenever running so it keeps
whatever water that may be present in suspension.


There's not NEAR as much of this so called "water" in peoples tanks as
what most would have us to believe. And besides, water lays on the
bottom and is rarely pulled into the system even when it is present.
There sure as hell would never be enough to actually freeze in a tight
spot and cause a problem.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

Steve Barker wrote:
....

There's not NEAR as much of this so called "water" in peoples tanks as
what most would have us to believe. And besides, water lays on the
bottom and is rarely pulled into the system even when it is present.
There sure as hell would never be enough to actually freeze in a tight
spot and cause a problem.

Well, as long as one doesn't get a tankful from a station that has had a
water intrusion or other mishandling, generally true...

Used to be far more common than is now but certainly has, does and will
continue to happen on occasion. Particularly was more of an issue w/
carbuertors than fuel injection owing to the cooling caused by
evaporation...

--

Steve Barker wrote:
....

The the whole point of the E is to REDUCE the amount of O (oil) we use.
And if it can be done for the same price (or less) , or even a bit
more, then why not? I burn E85 in my flex fuel vehicle every chance I
get. Yes, it does get 25% less mileage, but the cost of the fuel is
usually 20 - 30% less than the regular gas at a given time.

The problem is that w/ flex-fuel and the 10-15% blends vehicles can't be
tuned specifically for the ethanol blend. It's possible for specific
fuel to get essentially equivalent mileage but not and burn a mix...

--

On 11/3/2010 2:51 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
http://pure-gas.org/

Myself, and aparently many others. Find that the new "10% ethanol"
motor fuel gives about 15% less fuel mileage. I don't see a lot of
advantage to planting, harvesting and distilling to make a fuel that
provides less mileage. Wish I knew where to buy the old style
gasoline. Well, now, here is a list of stations that provide the old
style gasoline.

Now, you can know, also.

None around here.
The whole ethanol thing is a fraud foisted on us by big Ag businesses.
They even have high import duty on ethanol to keep out cheaper stuff
from Brazil.

In article ,
Steve Barker wrote:


The the whole point of the E is to REDUCE the amount of O (oil) we use.
And if it can be done for the same price (or less) , or even a bit
more, then why not? I burn E85 in my flex fuel vehicle every chance I
get. Yes, it does get 25% less mileage, but the cost of the fuel is
usually 20 - 30% less than the regular gas at a given time.

But only because of the subsidies.

--
"Even I realized that money was to politicians what the ecalyptus tree is to koala bears: food, water, shelter and something to crap on."
---PJ O'Rourke

George wrote:
....

he said the government is pulling more money out of our pockets to
subsidize ethanol ...

The tax credit isn't different than it's been for nearly 10 years
now...$0.50/gal _to_the_conventional_distributors_ (not the ethanol
producers) to aid in the development of infrastructure for distribution.

N.B. -- I'm pretty ambivalent regarding it as a continuing policy even
though anything that helps generate demand for ag products is
_a_good_thing_ (tm) given the ambivalent (at best) support by current
administration on trade agreements to keep existing export markets. As
in most things, when look at the overall picture things are more
complicated than one may think on the surface...

--

On 11/3/2010 9:54 AM, dpb wrote:
Steve Barker wrote:
...

The the whole point of the E is to REDUCE the amount of O (oil) we
use. And if it can be done for the same price (or less) , or even a
bit more, then why not? I burn E85 in my flex fuel vehicle every
chance I get. Yes, it does get 25% less mileage, but the cost of the
fuel is usually 20 - 30% less than the regular gas at a given time.

The problem is that w/ flex-fuel and the 10-15% blends vehicles can't be
tuned specifically for the ethanol blend. It's possible for specific
fuel to get essentially equivalent mileage but not and burn a mix...

--

The fords detect the amount. I don't notice any mileage difference with
the 10% i get now and then. Most of what i buy (if not E85) is pure
gas. Every now and then i get a fill up at caseys and it's 10%.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On 11/3/2010 10:01 AM, Kurt Ullman wrote:
In ,
Steve wrote:


The the whole point of the E is to REDUCE the amount of O (oil) we use.
And if it can be done for the same price (or less) , or even a bit
more, then why not? I burn E85 in my flex fuel vehicle every chance I
get. Yes, it does get 25% less mileage, but the cost of the fuel is
usually 20 - 30% less than the regular gas at a given time.

But only because of the subsidies.



OK. even if these so called subsidies existed (which i don't believe
for a minute) Then ok.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On 11/3/2010 4:52 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...

http://pure-gas.org/

Myself, and aparently many others. Find that the new "10% ethanol"
motor fuel gives about 15% less fuel mileage. I don't see a lot of
advantage to planting, harvesting and distilling to make a fuel that
provides less mileage. Wish I knew where to buy the old style
gasoline. Well, now, here is a list of stations that provide the old
style gasoline.

Now, you can know, also.



I was excited for a second. My state (CT and MA) is not listed and not
allowed to sell pure gas in winter.

Check with some of the gas stations in your area. The gov't usually
issues a waiver for stations on request if they want to provide one
pump supplying ethanol-free gas for vehicles that need it: collector
cars, boat and certain other engines. Technically, you're not supposed
to fill an ordinary car with that fuel, but the kids running the
register inside the station probably aren't gonna give a rat's
patootie if you do. At least, that's been my experience.

Iowa allows stations to offer both ethanol-free and
ethanol-adulterated gas. The ethanol-free fuel consistently run
several cents a gallon _cheaper_ than the ethanol-added gas. And I get
at least 10% better mileage on ethanol-free fuel, too. So considering
the lower price and better mileage of pure gasoline, it's quite
apparent that the only people benefiting financially from
ethanol-adulterated gasoline are the agribusiness lobby.

In article ,
Hell Toupee wrote:

Iowa allows stations to offer both ethanol-free and
ethanol-adulterated gas. The ethanol-free fuel consistently run
several cents a gallon _cheaper_ than the ethanol-added gas. And I get
at least 10% better mileage on ethanol-free fuel, too. So considering
the lower price and better mileage of pure gasoline, it's quite
apparent that the only people benefiting financially from
ethanol-adulterated gasoline are the agribusiness lobby.

And there are places in Florida that have really big billboards
telling you that they have ethanol-free fuel.

--
"Even I realized that money was to politicians what the ecalyptus tree is to koala bears: food, water, shelter and something to crap on."
---PJ O'Rourke

On 11/3/2010 10:54 AM, dpb wrote:
Steve Barker wrote:
...

The the whole point of the E is to REDUCE the amount of O (oil) we
use. And if it can be done for the same price (or less) , or even a
bit more, then why not? I burn E85 in my flex fuel vehicle every
chance I get. Yes, it does get 25% less mileage, but the cost of the
fuel is usually 20 - 30% less than the regular gas at a given time.

The problem is that w/ flex-fuel and the 10-15% blends vehicles can't be
tuned specifically for the ethanol blend. It's possible for specific
fuel to get essentially equivalent mileage but not and burn a mix...

--

I don't think an engine can be tuned to get equivalent mileage since
ethanol has less energy per unit volume than gasoline. That is the
primary reason fuel economy goes down as the % of ethanol goes up.

George wrote:
On 11/3/2010 10:54 AM, dpb wrote:
Steve Barker wrote:
...

The the whole point of the E is to REDUCE the amount of O (oil) we
use. And if it can be done for the same price (or less) , or even a
bit more, then why not? I burn E85 in my flex fuel vehicle every
chance I get. Yes, it does get 25% less mileage, but the cost of the
fuel is usually 20 - 30% less than the regular gas at a given time.

The problem is that w/ flex-fuel and the 10-15% blends vehicles can't be
tuned specifically for the ethanol blend. It's possible for specific
fuel to get essentially equivalent mileage but not and burn a mix...

--

I don't think an engine can be tuned to get equivalent mileage since
ethanol has less energy per unit volume than gasoline. That is the
primary reason fuel economy goes down as the % of ethanol goes up.

Wrote to try to be concise at cost of accuracy..."tuning" isn't really
the idea, it's much more radical design modifications.

Ethanol has higher octane rating than gasoline and so can use much
higher compression ratios which combined w/ other ethanol-specific
features can offset a significant portion of the Btu density loss.

The overall key is whether the net $/mile is as good as or better than
competition, not purely on raw mpg. If ethanol blends are less costly
then the actual outlay may be equivalent or less. Some studies indicate
that E85 may actually win on that basis even w/ current flex-fuel vehicles.

As noted earlier, when (or if) there is enough inertia developed that
the infrastructure is developed to the point to make the price
differential sufficient w/o the tax credit in the long term is still
TBD. And, of course, it depends on what happens to oil prices--if they
remain stable then it's a tougher road...

Mostly it's a perception thing--we all grew up w/ gasoline and its
particular energy density and so a comparison to ethanol is favorable
for it in our mindset. _IF_, otoh, it had turned out that gasoline
wasn't as energy dense as it is, then we'd be thinking ethanol was a
miracle fuel...

--

I havn't found it on the net. But, I rather suspect that planting
(driving a tractor up and down the field) growing, harvesting (driving
a tractor up and down the field), and distilling (using fuel to boil
the mash to get the ethanol vapor out) of the ethanol uses more energy
than the equivilant of using just gasoline.

We have plenty of wells, many of which aren't in use at the moment. We
have more oil available. We can also use the farm fields for food,
lumber, etc.

As I recently read, the gov't subsidizes ethanol -- which means it's
actually more expensive than straight gas. You pay some of the "more
expense" through taxes.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Steve Barker" wrote in message
...

The the whole point of the E is to REDUCE the amount of O (oil) we
use.
And if it can be done for the same price (or less) , or even a bit
more, then why not? I burn E85 in my flex fuel vehicle every chance I
get. Yes, it does get 25% less mileage, but the cost of the fuel is
usually 20 - 30% less than the regular gas at a given time.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methyl_tert-butyl_ether
Here is more than I ever thought I wanted to know about MTBE.
Aparently, it's water soluble, and gives water a bad taste. Gets into
the water via leaking tanks, spills, etc.

It's my view at the moment, that the farming needed to make ethanol
uses more fossil fuels than just pumping the dino juice out of the
ground. Here is what Wiki says:

"Ethanol's higher cost requires government intervention in the form of
subsidies or mandated usage to be competitive."

That speaks volumes to me. From that quote, I gather that ethanol
gasoline exists because someone in government decided so. Rather than
the free market.


--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Steve Barker" wrote in message
...

OK. even if these so called subsidies existed (which i don't believe
for a minute) Then ok.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On Nov 3, 7:56*am, Frank wrote:
On 11/3/2010 2:51 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote: * * * *http://pure-gas.org/

Myself, and aparently many others. Find that the new "10% ethanol"
motor fuel gives about 15% less fuel mileage. I don't see a lot of
advantage to planting, harvesting and distilling to make a fuel that
provides less mileage. Wish I knew where to buy the old style
gasoline. Well, now, here is a list of stations that provide the old
style gasoline.

Now, you can know, also.

None around here.
The whole ethanol thing is a fraud foisted on us by big Ag businesses.
They even have high import duty on ethanol to keep out cheaper stuff
from Brazil.


Whew! Finally somebody tells it as it is. Podner, you saved me a
lotta writing.

This whole corn-based ethanol thing was fomented by whores -- pardon,
legislators -- from the corn-raising states.
One result: poor people in Mexico whose staple is corn tortillas were
hit with massive price increases.
Also: I couldn't find corn oil, which I use for cooking, at the Co-Op
for YEARS. Now it's back, now that the
ethanol bubble has burst.

Instead of shoveling out pork to the corn-state reps, we should have
gone to hemp, which is cheap, easy to grow,
and yields useful oil. But the anti-pot lobby still manages to
confuse the public about the difference between
industrial hemp, which has been used since Biblical times for ropes,
cloth, oil, and many other products,
and marijuana. This benefits the anti-pot industry. You don't want
to take jobs away from all those enforcers,
do you? You don't want to reintroduce the growing of industrial help,
one of Nature's great bounties, do you?
Let's just keep the anti-pot propaganda flowing, so hemp can't be
grown here.

(disclaimer: I don't use pot or anything else along those lines)

HB

On Nov 3, 2:49*pm, Higgs Boson wrote:
On Nov 3, 7:56*am, Frank wrote:

On 11/3/2010 2:51 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote: * * * *http://pure-gas.org/

Myself, and aparently many others. Find that the new "10% ethanol"
motor fuel gives about 15% less fuel mileage. I don't see a lot of
advantage to planting, harvesting and distilling to make a fuel that
provides less mileage. Wish I knew where to buy the old style
gasoline. Well, now, here is a list of stations that provide the old
style gasoline.

Now, you can know, also.

None around here.
The whole ethanol thing is a fraud foisted on us by big Ag businesses.
They even have high import duty on ethanol to keep out cheaper stuff
from Brazil.

Whew! *Finally somebody tells it as it is. *Podner, you saved me a
lotta writing.

This whole corn-based ethanol thing was fomented by whores -- pardon,
legislators -- from the corn-raising states.
One result: *poor people in Mexico whose staple is corn tortillas were
hit with massive price increases.
Also: I couldn't find corn oil, which I use for cooking, at the Co-Op
for YEARS. *Now it's back, now that the
ethanol bubble has burst.

Instead of shoveling out pork to the corn-state reps, we should have
gone to hemp, which is cheap, easy to grow,
and yields useful oil. *But the anti-pot lobby still manages to
confuse the public about the difference between
industrial hemp, which has been used since Biblical times for ropes,
cloth, oil, and many other products,
and marijuana. *This benefits the anti-pot industry. *You don't want
to take jobs away from all those enforcers,
do you? *You don't want to reintroduce the growing of industrial help,
one of Nature's great bounties, do *you?
Let's just keep the anti-pot propaganda flowing, so hemp can't be
grown here.

(disclaimer: I don't use pot or anything else along those lines)

HB

==
Khrist-all-Friday. The corn states produce FIELD corn not corn for
hungry Mexican peons to chomp on. The FIELD corn is used for animal
feed and the production of ethyl alcohol. Why would manufacturers use
TABLE corn for alcohol production?...there's plenty of FIELD corn
available.

I can't even find "flex-fuel" at our "gas" stations. I would like to
try some but there is NONE. Maybe the flex-fuel decal on the vehicle I
bought is meaningless and was a gimmick to assist in sales.

I say give us choice and make all kinds of combinations of fuel
available...the consumer will decide which product or products to
sell.
==

In article ,
Steve Barker wrote:
On 11/3/2010 1:51 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
http://pure-gas.org/

Myself, and aparently many others. Find that the new "10% ethanol"
motor fuel gives about 15% less fuel mileage. I don't see a lot of
advantage to planting, harvesting and distilling to make a fuel that
provides less mileage. Wish I knew where to buy the old style
gasoline. Well, now, here is a list of stations that provide the old
style gasoline.

Now, you can know, also.



The the whole point of the E is to REDUCE the amount of O (oil) we use.
And if it can be done for the same price (or less) , or even a bit
more, then why not? I burn E85 in my flex fuel vehicle every chance I
get. Yes, it does get 25% less mileage, but the cost of the fuel is
usually 20 - 30% less than the regular gas at a given time.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

I would interpret the point of requiring ethanol in gasoline differently,
the major purpose is to provide a demand for corn and subsidize
agricultural interests (Thank republicans for that). It does not reduce
dependency on oil, some studies show that producing this ethanol actually
results in a net INCREASE of oil used in the processing and transportation
of the product. (Which makes perfect sense, considering the lack of lobbying
against ethanol by oil interests.)

There are some technical benefits to adding ethanol to gasoline but they
would be present even if the concentration was only a percent or 2.


--
There are no stupid questions, but there are lots of stupid answers.

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar. org

In article ,
Stormin Mormon wrote:
...snipped...
That speaks volumes to me. From that quote, I gather that ethanol
gasoline exists because someone in government decided so. Rather than
the free market.


We do not have a free market in this country and it is because that is what
business interests want, not because of government. Other than to the extent
that the money from business interests controls government policy.


--
There are no stupid questions, but there are lots of stupid answers.

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar. org

In article ,
(Larry W) wrote:

agricultural interests (Thank republicans for that).
Thank both parties. The vote on the farm bill in early '08 that
continued the tariffs and the subsidies was approved by the Senate by a
veto-proof margin of 81-15.* The bill was approved by the House with an
equally strong 318-106 majority.

In fact, GW threatened to veto it until the vote made it beside the
point.

I get a kick out people making these Big Statements w/o looking at the
actual votes. Most of really bad ones (this one, repeal of Glass
Steagal, changes in the commodity futures trading laws, etc.) were
passed by large bipartisan majorities.

--
"Even I realized that money was to politicians what the ecalyptus tree is to koala bears: food, water, shelter and something to crap on."
---PJ O'Rourke

On 11/3/2010 6:19 PM, Kurt Ullman wrote:
In ,
(Larry W) wrote:

agricultural interests (Thank republicans for that).
Thank both parties. The vote on the farm bill in early '08 that
continued the tariffs and the subsidies was approved by the Senate by a
veto-proof margin of 81-15. The bill was approved by the House with an
equally strong 318-106 majority.

In fact, GW threatened to veto it until the vote made it beside the
point.

I get a kick out people making these Big Statements w/o looking at the
actual votes. Most of really bad ones (this one, repeal of Glass
Steagal, changes in the commodity futures trading laws, etc.) were
passed by large bipartisan majorities.

Exactly, I can never understand why so many people willingly get into
the bizzare useless battle "its the Republicans", "no, its the
Democrats" when the reality is *BOTH* sides are equally involved with
the proof being the tally of the actual votes which anyone can verify.

On Wed, 3 Nov 2010 06:29:10 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:

Stormin Mormon wrote:
http://pure-gas.org/

Myself, and aparently many others. Find that the new "10% ethanol"
motor fuel gives about 15% less fuel mileage. I don't see a lot of
advantage to planting, harvesting and distilling to make a fuel that
provides less mileage. Wish I knew where to buy the old style
gasoline. Well, now, here is a list of stations that provide the old
style gasoline.

Now, you can know, also.

Got an FBO (Fixed Base Operator) near you? Buy 100 Octane aviation gas and
you're good to go.

Except non pilot/non plane owners can't legally buy it, and it has
more lead than the highest lead motor fuel EVER had (by a multiple of
something like 10) which will kill your oxygen sensors ant catalytic
converters in short order, and lead foul your plugs and valves as
well.

I use shell ultra up here in my snowblower and mower because up here
it has no hooch in it. I occaisionally use 100LL drained from one of
the planes (after long storage, or if it has accumulated too much
water, etc) in the snow blower.

On Wed, 03 Nov 2010 08:59:49 -0400, George
wrote:

On 11/3/2010 8:48 AM, ransley wrote:
On Nov 3, 1:51 am, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
http://pure-gas.org/

Myself, and aparently many others. Find that the new "10% ethanol"
motor fuel gives about 15% less fuel mileage. I don't see a lot of
advantage to planting, harvesting and distilling to make a fuel that
provides less mileage. Wish I knew where to buy the old style
gasoline. Well, now, here is a list of stations that provide the old
style gasoline.

Now, you can know, also.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

Winter is comming, alcohol absorbes water that used to sometimes
freeze a bad batch of gas when it was below zero, I dont worry about
that now. I dont know if its fuel injectors that help but freezing
isnt an issue like it used to be.

Other than ethanol blend I think the major reason is that all modern
vehicles constantly recirculate the fuel whenever running so it keeps
whatever water that may be present in suspension.
Not even close to the real reason.
The REAL reason is the evap control systems on today's cars. The tanks
are not vented to the atmosphere, so you do not get moist air drawn
into the tank in the evening when the tank cools off, and the moisture
from that air therefore does not condense into the tank.
Condensation due to temperature change making the tank "breath" is the
major source of moisture in vehicle fuel tanks - and sealed/controlled
vent fuel systems eliminate that source.

On Wed, 03 Nov 2010 09:50:06 -0500, Steve Barker
wrote:

On 11/3/2010 7:59 AM, George wrote:
On 11/3/2010 8:48 AM, ransley wrote:
On Nov 3, 1:51 am, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
http://pure-gas.org/

Myself, and aparently many others. Find that the new "10% ethanol"
motor fuel gives about 15% less fuel mileage. I don't see a lot of
advantage to planting, harvesting and distilling to make a fuel that
provides less mileage. Wish I knew where to buy the old style
gasoline. Well, now, here is a list of stations that provide the old
style gasoline.

Now, you can know, also.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

Winter is comming, alcohol absorbes water that used to sometimes
freeze a bad batch of gas when it was below zero, I dont worry about
that now. I dont know if its fuel injectors that help but freezing
isnt an issue like it used to be.

Other than ethanol blend I think the major reason is that all modern
vehicles constantly recirculate the fuel whenever running so it keeps
whatever water that may be present in suspension.


There's not NEAR as much of this so called "water" in peoples tanks as
what most would have us to believe. And besides, water lays on the
bottom and is rarely pulled into the system even when it is present.
There sure as hell would never be enough to actually freeze in a tight
spot and cause a problem.
Steve hasn't lived and driven very long in a cold climate, I would
guess. Frozen gas lines have long been a curse in cold humid areas.

Still a very real danger in the aviation world, where the general
aviation fleet averages well over 30 years of age, and all fuel
systems are fully vented.

When my friend bought his cherry 1946 Aercoupe this summer the tanks
were likely less than half full - the plane had been sitting about a
year, and he drained several quarts of water out of the tanks. (
drained ALL the gas out and had to flush several times with clean
fresh gas before no more water could be found in the test samples)

(the source of some good hooch free gas for the snow blowers this
winter after all the water is settled out)

On Wed, 03 Nov 2010 09:51:20 -0500, dpb wrote:

Steve Barker wrote:
...

There's not NEAR as much of this so called "water" in peoples tanks as
what most would have us to believe. And besides, water lays on the
bottom and is rarely pulled into the system even when it is present.
There sure as hell would never be enough to actually freeze in a tight
spot and cause a problem.

Well, as long as one doesn't get a tankful from a station that has had a
water intrusion or other mishandling, generally true...

Used to be far more common than is now but certainly has, does and will
continue to happen on occasion. Particularly was more of an issue w/
carbuertors than fuel injection owing to the cooling caused by
evaporation...


Which really didn't have ANY causitive relationship to the amount of
water in the fuel. Old carbureted vehicles generally had open vented
tanks. Virtually no fuel injected vehicles have open vented tanks.

On Wed, 03 Nov 2010 11:01:02 -0400, Kurt Ullman
wrote:

In article ,
Steve Barker wrote:


The the whole point of the E is to REDUCE the amount of O (oil) we use.
And if it can be done for the same price (or less) , or even a bit
more, then why not? I burn E85 in my flex fuel vehicle every chance I
get. Yes, it does get 25% less mileage, but the cost of the fuel is
usually 20 - 30% less than the regular gas at a given time.

But only because of the subsidies.
Which means you are buying the ethanol, even if you are not putting
it in your tank (and even if you do not own or drive a vehicle)

On Wed, 3 Nov 2010 13:29:38 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methyl_tert-butyl_ether
Here is more than I ever thought I wanted to know about MTBE.
Aparently, it's water soluble, and gives water a bad taste. Gets into
the water via leaking tanks, spills, etc.

It's my view at the moment, that the farming needed to make ethanol
uses more fossil fuels than just pumping the dino juice out of the
ground. Here is what Wiki says:

"Ethanol's higher cost requires government intervention in the form of
subsidies or mandated usage to be competitive."

That speaks volumes to me. From that quote, I gather that ethanol
gasoline exists because someone in government decided so. Rather than
the free market.


--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.


"Steve Barker" wrote in message
...

OK. even if these so called subsidies existed (which i don't believe
for a minute) Then ok.
The problem doesn't stop with the amount of fuel required to produce
the corn, and then the ethanol from the corn.
If it did, it would be a simple matter to switch to ethanol to fuel
the equipment and the still.

The problem is the feed stock.
CORN is not the right, or even sensible product from which to produce
ethanol, particularly as a fuel to reduce oil dependancy, because corn
requires huge amounts of ammonia fertilizers - the production of which
requires HUGE amount of natural gas or petroleum......

On Wed, 3 Nov 2010 11:32:30 -0700, "Bob F"
wrote:

Stormin Mormon wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methyl_tert-butyl_ether
Here is more than I ever thought I wanted to know about MTBE.
Aparently, it's water soluble, and gives water a bad taste. Gets into
the water via leaking tanks, spills, etc.

It's my view at the moment, that the farming needed to make ethanol
uses more fossil fuels than just pumping the dino juice out of the
ground. Here is what Wiki says:

If that's the case, the ethanol would cost more than gasoline, which is clearly
not the case, even if you account for the subsidies.

It does.
If you remove the agricultural subsidies the American farmer gets to
produce corn, and the subsidies given to the ethanol producers for
producing the ethanol, gasoline is less expensive (before taxation)
than booze alchohol (even made from unsubsidized, imported cane sugar)
before taxes.

On Wed, 3 Nov 2010 14:11:25 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:

George wrote:
On 11/3/2010 7:29 AM, HeyBub wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote:
http://pure-gas.org/

Myself, and aparently many others. Find that the new "10% ethanol"
motor fuel gives about 15% less fuel mileage. I don't see a lot of
advantage to planting, harvesting and distilling to make a fuel that
provides less mileage. Wish I knew where to buy the old style
gasoline. Well, now, here is a list of stations that provide the old
style gasoline.

Now, you can know, also.

Got an FBO (Fixed Base Operator) near you? Buy 100 Octane aviation
gas and you're good to go.




And poison your catalytic converter..

And your great information could cost someone a grand if they didn't
realize you just like to screw with people...

You're right. My mistake. Avgas contains lead which is not good for
catalytic convertors.

My experience was back in the day - before catalytic convertors.

Before cat converters was also WELL before ethanol blended gasoline.

On Wed, 3 Nov 2010 14:31:45 -0700 (PDT), Roy
wrote:



==
Khrist-all-Friday. The corn states produce FIELD corn not corn for
hungry Mexican peons to chomp on. The FIELD corn is used for animal
feed and the production of ethyl alcohol. Why would manufacturers use
TABLE corn for alcohol production?...there's plenty of FIELD corn
available.

I can't even find "flex-fuel" at our "gas" stations. I would like to
try some but there is NONE. Maybe the flex-fuel decal on the vehicle I
bought is meaningless and was a gimmick to assist in sales.

I say give us choice and make all kinds of combinations of fuel
available...the consumer will decide which product or products to
sell.
==
You don't know the mexican diet, do you? They do not eat the sweet
corn you eat as niblets or corn on the cob. They eat "field corn",
milled into corn flour and corn meal - as does a very large percentage
of the people of low income countries around the world. The majority
of sub-sahara Africa subsists on "field corn" - those that do not
subsist on Manioc, a starchy root crop from which tapioca is also
made. That same corn is used to provide corn starch, used as a
feedstock for plastics and other insustry, as well as foodstuffs, and
corn syrup/corn sugar used as a sweetener in a very large percentage
of foods on the world's food shelves.

A study several years ago noted that corn was present, in one form or
another, in something like 85% of products on north american shelves -
food and non-food alike.

And you can't buy "flex fuel". In some parts of North america (and
even other parts of the world) you can buy E85 - which is 15% gasoline
and 85% hooch.

On Wed, 03 Nov 2010 19:34:07 -0400, George
wrote:

On 11/3/2010 6:19 PM, Kurt Ullman wrote:
In ,
(Larry W) wrote:

agricultural interests (Thank republicans for that).
Thank both parties. The vote on the farm bill in early '08 that
continued the tariffs and the subsidies was approved by the Senate by a
veto-proof margin of 81-15. The bill was approved by the House with an
equally strong 318-106 majority.

In fact, GW threatened to veto it until the vote made it beside the
point.

I get a kick out people making these Big Statements w/o looking at the
actual votes. Most of really bad ones (this one, repeal of Glass
Steagal, changes in the commodity futures trading laws, etc.) were
passed by large bipartisan majorities.

Exactly, I can never understand why so many people willingly get into
the bizzare useless battle "its the Republicans", "no, its the
Democrats" when the reality is *BOTH* sides are equally involved with
the proof being the tally of the actual votes which anyone can verify.

The pork barrel knows no political limits.
The feed trough does not discriminate- one hog is as good as the next
at feeding time.