http://pure-gas.org/

Myself, and aparently many others. Find that the new "10% ethanol"
motor fuel gives about 15% less fuel mileage. I don't see a lot of
advantage to planting, harvesting and distilling to make a fuel that
provides less mileage. Wish I knew where to buy the old style
gasoline. Well, now, here is a list of stations that provide the old
style gasoline.

Now, you can know, also.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

Stormin Mormon writes:

I don't see a lot of
advantage to planting, harvesting and distilling to make a fuel that
provides less mileage.

Ethanol in a case of vodka: 12 bottles * 750 ml/bottle * 80 proof (40
percent) = 3.6 liters = 0.95 gallon.

Ethanol in a 30-gallon pickup truck tank filled with 10 percent ethanol
fuel: 30 * 0.1 = 3 gallons.

So the US federal goverment now literally requires that every fillup also
include a mandatory minimum purchase of the equivalent of 3 cases of
uncut vodka.

In 1933 it was a federal crime to produce, buy, sell, or even transport
ethanol.

In 2010 it is a federal crime to transport yourself without ethanol.

Under federal law the identical industrial product is to be priced at
$1/gallon if it is destined to go into an engine, versus $50/gallon into
a belly.

On Nov 2, 9:15*pm, Richard J Kinch wrote:
Stormin Mormon writes:
I don't see a lot of
advantage to planting, harvesting and distilling to make a fuel that
provides less mileage.

Ethanol in a case of vodka: 12 bottles * 750 ml/bottle * 80 proof (40
percent) = 3.6 liters = 0.95 gallon.

Ethanol in a 30-gallon pickup truck tank filled with 10 percent ethanol
fuel: 30 * 0.1 = 3 gallons.

So the US federal goverment now literally requires that every fillup also
include a mandatory minimum purchase of the equivalent of 3 cases of
uncut vodka.

In 1933 it was a federal crime to produce, buy, sell, or even transport
ethanol. *

In 2010 it is a federal crime to transport yourself without ethanol.

Under federal law the identical industrial product is to be priced at
$1/gallon if it is destined to go into an engine, versus $50/gallon into
a belly.

It's*taxed*differently*too.
Karl

writes:

Under federal law the identical industrial product is to be priced at
$1/gallon if it is destined to go into an engine, versus $50/gallon into
a belly.

It's taxed differently too.

Taxed or subsidized. Hence my statement, "is to be priced".

Q: What's the difference between Jack Daniels and motor fuel?

A: The former spends a few months in oak barrels.

On Nov 3, 12:52*am, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
* * *http://pure-gas.org/

Myself, and aparently many others. Find that the new "10% ethanol"
motor fuel gives about 15% less fuel mileage. I don't see a lot of
advantage to planting, harvesting and distilling to make a fuel that
provides less mileage. Wish I knew where to buy the old style
gasoline. Well, now, here is a list of stations that provide the old
style gasoline.

Now, you can know, also.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
*www.lds.org
.

Hardly "new" at this point. Those living in smog-check areas already
have suffered with it for 10 years or more. And the latest is that
Congress just passed some more green legislation that allows up to 15%
now in "regular" gas. Mechanics will love it. Haven't seen that yet,
but coming soon to a pump near you. Already have E85 around here, not
that that many folks can burn it. As far as straight gas, I usually
can find mine outside the major metro areas, usually tagged one or two
octane points below the lowest grade of gasahol and the same price.
It's that way all through NE and IA. I find that the "lower" grade
gives me a little more zip on hills and about 10-15% more mileage by
the car computer. It's all just green theater, politicos looking to
say they've done Something and ADM fattening on your wallets.

Stan

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...

http://pure-gas.org/

Myself, and aparently many others. Find that the new "10% ethanol"
motor fuel gives about 15% less fuel mileage. I don't see a lot of
advantage to planting, harvesting and distilling to make a fuel that
provides less mileage. Wish I knew where to buy the old style
gasoline. Well, now, here is a list of stations that provide the old
style gasoline.

Now, you can know, also.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org

The energy of ethanol relative to gasoline
A. 76,000 = BTU of energy in a gallon of ethanol
B. 116,090 = BTU of energy in a gallon of gasoline
C. .655 = 2/3 = GGE of energy in a gallon of ethanol. A / B.
D. 1.53 = Gallons of ethanol with the energy of 1 gallon of gasoline. D =
B / A.

Corn Ethanol Takes More Energy Than It Makes
http://www.ens-newswire.com/ens/jul2...-07-13-01.html
Government policy at it's finest!
MikeK

On Nov 3, 1:52*am, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
* * *http://pure-gas.org/

Myself, and aparently many others. Find that the new "10% ethanol"
motor fuel gives about 15% less fuel mileage. I don't see a lot of
advantage to planting, harvesting and distilling to make a fuel that
provides less mileage. Wish I knew where to buy the old style
gasoline. Well, now, here is a list of stations that provide the old
style gasoline.

Now, you can know, also.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
*www.lds.org
.

A couple years ago one of the car magazines did a test comparing power
outputs and fuel economy between straight gasoline and a 10% Ethanol
mix. Regular engines using the 10% Ethanol mix showed slight power
increases but lower fuel economy. However three of the cars that had
supercharged or Turbo charged engines not only had more power but
showed an increase in fuel economy also. I remember one of the three
cars was a Subaru WRX and IIRC the others were a Saab and a Ford.

DL

I don't think 10% ethanol should give more than about a 5% increase in
fuel use. Ethanol has about 1/2 the btu's of straight gasoline. So,
if 10% of the fuel burns twice as fast, and the other 90% burns at the
"Pure Gas" rete, you have 95% of the fuel economy by volume.

----I don't like the idea of turning food into fuel either. Corn, which
used to sell for around $2.50/bushel is currently going for around $5.00
around here. That's gotta hurt the price of fed beef, corn bread and
corn syrup and on and on and on.

Pete Stanaitis
------------------

Stormin Mormon wrote:
http://pure-gas.org/

Myself, and aparently many others. Find that the new "10% ethanol"
motor fuel gives about 15% less fuel mileage. I don't see a lot of
advantage to planting, harvesting and distilling to make a fuel that
provides less mileage. Wish I knew where to buy the old style
gasoline. Well, now, here is a list of stations that provide the old
style gasoline.

Now, you can know, also.

spaco wrote:
I don't think 10% ethanol should give more than about a 5% increase in
fuel use. Ethanol has about 1/2 the btu's of straight gasoline. So, if
10% of the fuel burns twice as fast, and the other 90% burns at the
"Pure Gas" rete, you have 95% of the fuel economy by volume.

----I don't like the idea of turning food into fuel either. Corn, which
used to sell for around $2.50/bushel is currently going for around $5.00
around here. That's gotta hurt the price of fed beef, corn bread and
corn syrup and on and on and on.

Turns out that all corn (maize for our UK friends) isn't the same.

The kind that we produce now isn't 'eating corn' that we enjoy with
BBQ for example. The Monsanto variety must be extensively processed
before it becomes a food / fuel ingredient.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiCRwMMh9k8

I expect that it isn't a zero-sum game where an acre of real corn
cannot be planted because the land must be used for this new "corn".

We apparently can't get rid of the stuff quickly enough and any price
increase is made for entirely superficial reasons.

--Winston

Number 2 yellow field corn IS what is fed to the animals we eat. A LOT
of it.
It IS the same stuff that goes into ethanol.

Pete Stanaitis

Winston wrote:
snip

Turns out that all corn (maize for our UK friends) isn't the same.

The kind that we produce now isn't 'eating corn' that we enjoy with
BBQ for example. The Monsanto variety must be extensively processed
before it becomes a food / fuel ingredient.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiCRwMMh9k8

I expect that it isn't a zero-sum game where an acre of real corn
cannot be planted because the land must be used for this new "corn".

We apparently can't get rid of the stuff quickly enough and any price
increase is made for entirely superficial reasons.

--Winston

On Nov 3, 10:24*pm, spaco wrote:
Number 2 yellow field corn IS what is fed to the animals we eat. *A LOT
of it.
It IS the same stuff that goes into ethanol.

Pete Stanaitis

Winston wrote:

snip



Turns out that all corn (maize for our UK friends) isn't the same.

The kind that we produce now isn't 'eating corn' that we enjoy with
BBQ for example. *The Monsanto variety must be extensively processed
before it becomes a food / fuel ingredient.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiCRwMMh9k8

I expect that it isn't a zero-sum game where an acre of real corn
cannot be planted because the land must be used for this new "corn".

We apparently can't get rid of the stuff quickly enough and any price
increase is made for entirely superficial reasons.

--Winston

Otherwise referred to as "dent" corn. Sweet corn is the common table
fare at BBQ's etc.
DL

TwoGuns wrote:
On Nov 3, 10:24 pm, spaco wrote:
Number 2 yellow field corn IS what is fed to the animals we eat. A LOT
of it.
It IS the same stuff that goes into ethanol.

Pete Stanaitis

Otherwise referred to as "dent" corn. Sweet corn is the common table
fare at BBQ's etc.
DL

Dent corn is also what is used to make flour, grits, corn meal, high
fructose corn syrup, and many other human consumed items.

Sweet corn is what you eat as frozen corn, corn on the cob, and creamed
corn.

It's also the corn that you see on the trade and futures markets as
"exported corn"

Using it to make a fuel additive which causes a LOT of problems is
stupid. BUT it does keep those politicians in the corn belt in office...

--
Steve W.

spaco wrote:
Number 2 yellow field corn IS what is fed to the animals we eat.

Yes. It's not the same variety found in the market for
people to eat.

A LOT of it.
It IS the same stuff that goes into ethanol.

http://www.badgerstateethanol.com/industry_process.htm

Yes. See the first four paragraphs starting with:

"A fifteen thousand bushel per hour grain system screens the corn for
rocks and cobs before being sent to one of two 225,000-bushel storage
bins." To begin processing, (...)"

Apparently we are in violent agreement.

--Winston

TwoGuns wrote:

Otherwise referred to as "dent" corn. Sweet corn is the common table
fare at BBQ's etc.
DL

Yup.

--Winston

Steve W. wrote:
TwoGuns wrote:
On Nov 3, 10:24 pm, wrote:
Number 2 yellow field corn IS what is fed to the animals we eat. A LOT
of it.
It IS the same stuff that goes into ethanol.

Pete Stanaitis

Otherwise referred to as "dent" corn. Sweet corn is the common table
fare at BBQ's etc.
DL

Dent corn is also what is used to make flour, grits, corn meal, high
fructose corn syrup, and many other human consumed items.

Yup. After extensive processing.
You won't see dent corn, per se, for sale in your local supermarket.

Sweet corn is what you eat as frozen corn, corn on the cob, and creamed
corn.

Yup.

It's also the corn that you see on the trade and futures markets as
"exported corn"

That'll be what I learned today.

Using it to make a fuel additive which causes a LOT of problems is
stupid. BUT it does keep those politicians in the corn belt in office...

And allows us to kid ourselves that we are doing something effective
about our consumption of offshore oil. Makes me wonder why all the
harvesters, trucks and processing plants aren't alcohol - powered.



--Winston

Winston wrote:
Steve W. wrote:
TwoGuns wrote:
On Nov 3, 10:24 pm, wrote:
Number 2 yellow field corn IS what is fed to the animals we eat. A LOT
of it.
It IS the same stuff that goes into ethanol.

Pete Stanaitis

Otherwise referred to as "dent" corn. Sweet corn is the common table
fare at BBQ's etc.
DL

Dent corn is also what is used to make flour, grits, corn meal, high
fructose corn syrup, and many other human consumed items.

Yup. After extensive processing.
You won't see dent corn, per se, for sale in your local supermarket.

Sweet corn is what you eat as frozen corn, corn on the cob, and creamed
corn.

Yup.

It's also the corn that you see on the trade and futures markets as
"exported corn"

That'll be what I learned today.

Using it to make a fuel additive which causes a LOT of problems is
stupid. BUT it does keep those politicians in the corn belt in office...

And allows us to kid ourselves that we are doing something effective
about our consumption of offshore oil. Makes me wonder why all the
harvesters, trucks and processing plants aren't alcohol - powered.



--Winston


The thing that amazes me about some of the "green" folks is how they
complain about genetically modified foods and then talk about using more
corn to produce ethanol.
Guess they don't realize that the "corn" we have today is a completely
genetically modified item regardless of where they get the seeds.

"Corn" as we know it never existed until it was selectively bred through
the years, it's original form was a 2-3' tall grass that only grew in
Mexico.

--
Steve W.
(\___/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

Steve W. wrote:

The thing that amazes me about some of the "green" folks is how they
complain about genetically modified foods and then talk about using more
corn to produce ethanol.
Guess they don't realize that the "corn" we have today is a completely
genetically modified item regardless of where they get the seeds.

"Corn" as we know it never existed until it was selectively bred through
the years, it's original form was a 2-3' tall grass that only grew in
Mexico.

They don't understand that "selective breeding" IS "genetic engineering."

They get images of monks in monasteries, patiently hand-pollinating selected
plants, vs. some "evil scientist" in a lab coat, surrounded with glassware,
doing some sort of witch's brew experiments in test tubes, and raving,

"It's Alive! IT'S ALIVE!!!! Bwahahahahahaaaaa!!"

Thanks,
Rich

On Thu, 04 Nov 2010 13:44:26 -0700, the renowned Rich Grise
wrote:

Steve W. wrote:

The thing that amazes me about some of the "green" folks is how they
complain about genetically modified foods and then talk about using more
corn to produce ethanol.
Guess they don't realize that the "corn" we have today is a completely
genetically modified item regardless of where they get the seeds.

"Corn" as we know it never existed until it was selectively bred through
the years, it's original form was a 2-3' tall grass that only grew in
Mexico.

They don't understand that "selective breeding" IS "genetic engineering."

They get images of monks in monasteries, patiently hand-pollinating selected
plants, vs. some "evil scientist" in a lab coat, surrounded with glassware,
doing some sort of witch's brew experiments in test tubes, and raving,

"It's Alive! IT'S ALIVE!!!! Bwahahahahahaaaaa!!"

Thanks,
Rich

So, if you believe it's the same thing, and therefor safe, explain WTF
kind of selective breeding will lead to mixing MOUSE GENES with CORN?



Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

Spehro Pefhany wrote:
On Thu, 04 Nov 2010 13:44:26 -0700, the renowned Rich Grise
wrote:
Steve W. wrote:

The thing that amazes me about some of the "green" folks is how they
complain about genetically modified foods and then talk about using more
corn to produce ethanol.
Guess they don't realize that the "corn" we have today is a completely
genetically modified item regardless of where they get the seeds.

"Corn" as we know it never existed until it was selectively bred through
the years, it's original form was a 2-3' tall grass that only grew in
Mexico.

They don't understand that "selective breeding" IS "genetic engineering."

They get images of monks in monasteries, patiently hand-pollinating
selected plants, vs. some "evil scientist" in a lab coat, surrounded with
glassware, doing some sort of witch's brew experiments in test tubes, and
raving,

"It's Alive! IT'S ALIVE!!!! Bwahahahahahaaaaa!!"

So, if you believe it's the same thing, and therefor safe, explain WTF
kind of selective breeding will lead to mixing MOUSE GENES with CORN?

That's still selective breeding - we're just bypassing the middleman! ;-)

Cheers!
Rich

On 11/3/2010 1:09 PM, spaco wrote:
I don't think 10% ethanol should give more than about a 5% increase in
fuel use. Ethanol has about 1/2 the btu's of straight gasoline. So, if
10% of the fuel burns twice as fast, and the other 90% burns at the
"Pure Gas" rete, you have 95% of the fuel economy by volume.

----I don't like the idea of turning food into fuel either. Corn, which
used to sell for around $2.50/bushel is currently going for around $5.00
around here. That's gotta hurt the price of fed beef, corn bread and
corn syrup and on and on and on.

Pete Stanaitis
------------------

In my '07 Subaru, I get about 24 mpg using 10% alcohol scam gas. Using
regular unleaded, I get about 28 mpg.

David

Rich Grise wrote:
Spehro Pefhany wrote:
On Thu, 04 Nov 2010 13:44:26 -0700, the renowned Rich Grise
wrote:
Steve W. wrote:
The thing that amazes me about some of the "green" folks is how they
complain about genetically modified foods and then talk about using more
corn to produce ethanol.
Guess they don't realize that the "corn" we have today is a completely
genetically modified item regardless of where they get the seeds.

"Corn" as we know it never existed until it was selectively bred through
the years, it's original form was a 2-3' tall grass that only grew in
Mexico.

They don't understand that "selective breeding" IS "genetic engineering."

They get images of monks in monasteries, patiently hand-pollinating
selected plants, vs. some "evil scientist" in a lab coat, surrounded with
glassware, doing some sort of witch's brew experiments in test tubes, and
raving,

"It's Alive! IT'S ALIVE!!!! Bwahahahahahaaaaa!!"
So, if you believe it's the same thing, and therefor safe, explain WTF
kind of selective breeding will lead to mixing MOUSE GENES with CORN?

That's still selective breeding - we're just bypassing the middleman! ;-)

Cheers!
Rich



No, that's gene splicing...

Yes the farmer plants yellow corn for his stock and to put in a silo.
When the ears are just going - before harvest time - that is their
sweet corn and for a few days it is harvested. Sometimes a small square
of white or shoe is planted if the family has a plot for themselves.

Martin

On 11/3/2010 11:33 PM, Steve W. wrote:
TwoGuns wrote:
On Nov 3, 10:24 pm, wrote:
Number 2 yellow field corn IS what is fed to the animals we eat. A LOT
of it.
It IS the same stuff that goes into ethanol.

Pete Stanaitis

Otherwise referred to as "dent" corn. Sweet corn is the common table
fare at BBQ's etc.
DL

Dent corn is also what is used to make flour, grits, corn meal, high
fructose corn syrup, and many other human consumed items.

Sweet corn is what you eat as frozen corn, corn on the cob, and creamed
corn.

It's also the corn that you see on the trade and futures markets as
"exported corn"

Using it to make a fuel additive which causes a LOT of problems is
stupid. BUT it does keep those politicians in the corn belt in office...

But breeding corn is different from gene fixing.
When you see corn or grass that can kill due to a change -
you wonder. Gene splicing is tricky stuff.

My wife wore a perfume for years. No issue with it.
They used natural flowers and process it. Then they went
and created from chemicals. If an un-opened bottle is within
100' of me I can sense it and start getting headaches and
sinus overload. They, the company that sold the fake stuff
to the perfume company got something 'close'.

I have never seen anything as dangerous to me as that new chemical.

Martin

On 11/4/2010 12:46 PM, Steve W. wrote:
Winston wrote:
Steve W. wrote:
TwoGuns wrote:
On Nov 3, 10:24 pm, wrote:
Number 2 yellow field corn IS what is fed to the animals we eat. A LOT
of it.
It IS the same stuff that goes into ethanol.

Pete Stanaitis

Otherwise referred to as "dent" corn. Sweet corn is the common table
fare at BBQ's etc.
DL

Dent corn is also what is used to make flour, grits, corn meal, high
fructose corn syrup, and many other human consumed items.

Yup. After extensive processing.
You won't see dent corn, per se, for sale in your local supermarket.

Sweet corn is what you eat as frozen corn, corn on the cob, and creamed
corn.

Yup.

It's also the corn that you see on the trade and futures markets as
"exported corn"

That'll be what I learned today.

Using it to make a fuel additive which causes a LOT of problems is
stupid. BUT it does keep those politicians in the corn belt in office...

And allows us to kid ourselves that we are doing something effective
about our consumption of offshore oil. Makes me wonder why all the
harvesters, trucks and processing plants aren't alcohol - powered.



--Winston


The thing that amazes me about some of the "green" folks is how they
complain about genetically modified foods and then talk about using more
corn to produce ethanol.
Guess they don't realize that the "corn" we have today is a completely
genetically modified item regardless of where they get the seeds.

"Corn" as we know it never existed until it was selectively bred through
the years, it's original form was a 2-3' tall grass that only grew in
Mexico.