Hi,

We are getting kitchen cabinets made by a local custom cabinet maker.
The total cost of the project is about $20k.

We have just asked him whether the two island pieces can be stained with
a different dyes (he uses dyes rather than stains). He said that it
would cost an extra $750.

I did not expect to incur an extra cost here, so I was very surprised by
this answer. Before I ask a follow up question, I'd like to educate
myself as to what might the reason for the extra cost. My naive thought
was that there should not be an extra cost to closing a jar, putting it
back on the shelf and opening a different jar, but clearly there is more
to it than that.

What is it?

Thanks in advance,

Sam

Sam Takoy wrote:
Hi,

We are getting kitchen cabinets made by a local custom cabinet maker.
The total cost of the project is about $20k.

We have just asked him whether the two island pieces can be stained with
a different dyes (he uses dyes rather than stains). He said that it
would cost an extra $750.

I did not expect to incur an extra cost here, so I was very surprised by
this answer. Before I ask a follow up question, I'd like to educate
myself as to what might the reason for the extra cost. My naive thought
was that there should not be an extra cost to closing a jar, putting it
back on the shelf and opening a different jar, but clearly there is more
to it than that.

What is it?

Thanks in advance,

Sam
You are willing to spend 20.000, modifications according to sales price.

On 11/1/2010 12:43 AM, Sjouke Burry wrote:
Sam Takoy wrote:
Hi,

We are getting kitchen cabinets made by a local custom cabinet maker.
The total cost of the project is about $20k.

We have just asked him whether the two island pieces can be stained
with a different dyes (he uses dyes rather than stains). He said that
it would cost an extra $750.

I did not expect to incur an extra cost here, so I was very surprised
by this answer. Before I ask a follow up question, I'd like to educate
myself as to what might the reason for the extra cost. My naive
thought was that there should not be an extra cost to closing a jar,
putting it back on the shelf and opening a different jar, but clearly
there is more to it than that.

What is it?

Thanks in advance,

Sam
You are willing to spend 20.000, modifications according to sales price.

So you are saying there is no intrinsic additional cost?

In article ,
Sam Takoy wrote:

Hi,

We are getting kitchen cabinets made by a local custom cabinet maker.
The total cost of the project is about $20k.

We have just asked him whether the two island pieces can be stained with
a different dyes (he uses dyes rather than stains). He said that it
would cost an extra $750.

I did not expect to incur an extra cost here, so I was very surprised by
this answer. Before I ask a follow up question, I'd like to educate
myself as to what might the reason for the extra cost. My naive thought
was that there should not be an extra cost to closing a jar, putting it
back on the shelf and opening a different jar, but clearly there is more
to it than that.

What is it?

Thanks in advance,

Sam

I don't know nuttin about it, but before all the east coast woodworkers
wake up to address your question, I'll take a stab at it just for fun.
Two possibilities:

1 He actually said $7.50 and you heard $750.

2 He was pulling your leg.

If neither of those turn out to be the case, my next question to him
would be "are you out of your ****ing mind?"

On Nov 1, 4:35*am, Sam Takoy wrote:
Hi,

We are getting kitchen cabinets made by a local custom cabinet maker.
The total cost of the project is about $20k.

We have just asked him whether the two island pieces can be stained with
a different dyes (he uses dyes rather than stains). He said that it
would cost an extra $750.

I did not expect to incur an extra cost here, so I was very surprised by
this answer. Before I ask a follow up question, I'd like to educate
myself as to what might the reason for the extra cost. My naive thought
was that there should not be an extra cost to closing a jar, putting it
back on the shelf and opening a different jar, but clearly there is more
to it than that.

What is it?

Thanks in advance,

Sam

He obviously doesn't want to be arsed and has quoted a ridiculous
price to put you off. Stain them yourself after installation. I
expect it'll cost about $10 for the stain.

Sam Takoy wrote:

Hi,

We are getting kitchen cabinets made by a local custom cabinet maker.
The total cost of the project is about $20k.

We have just asked him whether the two island pieces can be stained with
a different dyes (he uses dyes rather than stains). He said that it
would cost an extra $750.

I did not expect to incur an extra cost here, so I was very surprised by
this answer. Before I ask a follow up question, I'd like to educate
myself as to what might the reason for the extra cost. My naive thought
was that there should not be an extra cost to closing a jar, putting it
back on the shelf and opening a different jar, but clearly there is more
to it than that.

What is it?

Well, the real answer is in the contractor's head & you were just
talking to him- so the immediate response should have been a simple
'How come so much?'.

My guesses;
1. He sends the cabinets out to get stained & there is a minimum $500
fee from 'his guy'.
2. He hates cleaning his spray gun.
3. He realized he under-estimated the job & he's looking for someplace
to make it up.
4. He just wants you to leave him alone so he can do things just as
agreed to.
5. the stain is already on the cabinets and he'd have to replace them.

Jim

Sam Takoy wrote:
Hi,

We are getting kitchen cabinets made by a local custom cabinet maker.
The total cost of the project is about $20k.

We have just asked him whether the two island pieces can be stained with
a different dyes (he uses dyes rather than stains). He said that it
would cost an extra $750.

I did not expect to incur an extra cost here, so I was very surprised by
this answer. Before I ask a follow up question, I'd like to educate
myself as to what might the reason for the extra cost. My naive thought
was that there should not be an extra cost to closing a jar, putting it
back on the shelf and opening a different jar, but clearly there is more
to it than that.

What is it?

Thanks in advance,

Sam

This sounds an awful lot like the "Throw a number against the wall"
scenario. He might figure you are prepared to spend a lot of money on
the cabinets, what is a little more?

On 11/1/2010 12:35 AM, Sam Takoy wrote:
Hi,

We are getting kitchen cabinets made by a local custom cabinet maker.
The total cost of the project is about $20k.

We have just asked him whether the two island pieces can be stained with
a different dyes (he uses dyes rather than stains). He said that it
would cost an extra $750.

I did not expect to incur an extra cost here, so I was very surprised by
this answer. Before I ask a follow up question, I'd like to educate
myself as to what might the reason for the extra cost. My naive thought
was that there should not be an extra cost to closing a jar, putting it
back on the shelf and opening a different jar, but clearly there is more
to it than that.

What is it?

Thanks in advance,

Sam

The contractor knows you have cash to spend. Let him wait while you
shop other contractors....

On Mon, 01 Nov 2010 06:37:52 -0500, Ken wrote Re
Complexity of dyes in kitchen cabinets:


This sounds an awful lot like the "Throw a number against the wall"
scenario. He might figure you are prepared to spend a lot of money on
the cabinets, what is a little more?

Indeed. He probably low-balled the original bid to get the job, now
he see's a chance to increase his profit margin. We do it all the
time with government contracts: low-ball the bid, then make it up
with change orders.
--
Work is the curse of the drinking class.

"Sam Takoy" wrote in message
...
Hi,

We are getting kitchen cabinets made by a local custom cabinet maker. The
total cost of the project is about $20k.

We have just asked him whether the two island pieces can be stained with a
different dyes (he uses dyes rather than stains). He said that it would
cost an extra $750.

I did not expect to incur an extra cost here, so I was very surprised by
this answer. Before I ask a follow up question, I'd like to educate myself
as to what might the reason for the extra cost. My naive thought was that
there should not be an extra cost to closing a jar, putting it back on the
shelf and opening a different jar, but clearly there is more to it than
that.

What is it?

Thanks in advance,

Sam


He knows he's got a live one on the hook.

By the way, I took the liberty of posting this in rec.woodworking (a very
busy newsgroup). I see you've tried alt.woodworking. If I recall, the rec
group is much busier. But I could be wrong.

We have just asked him whether the two island pieces can be stained with a
different dyes (he uses dyes rather than stains). He said that it would
cost an extra $750.


I, also, would like to know his rational for that additional cost.

Kind of sounds like the decorator, who was redecorating my brother's
house. She had made a list of things to be done. My brother decided
one item was to be scratched from the list. His bill, to that point,
denoted a 2 hours charge for scratching the item off the list. He
fired her! He hasn't been returning her subsequent phone calls.

Sonny

On Nov 1, 9:36*am, Sonny wrote:
We have just asked him whether the two island pieces can be stained with a
different dyes (he uses dyes rather than stains). He said that it would
cost an extra $750.

I, also, would like to know his rational for that additional cost.

Kind of sounds like the decorator, who was redecorating my brother's
house. *She had made a list of things to be done. *My brother decided
one item was to be scratched from the list. *His bill, to that point,
denoted a 2 hours charge for scratching the item off the list. *He
fired her! *He hasn't been returning her subsequent phone calls.

Sonny

In general with contractors it seems best to finalize your
requirements before asking for a quote. Then decide if the total
price is worth the finished product. If you get into "how much did
each piece cost" or "what will it cost if I change this" after the
quote that will lead to frustration. If you change anything that is
an opportunity to charge you for the change.

jamesgangnc wrote:
....

In general with contractors it seems best to finalize your
requirements before asking for a quote. ...

Theoretically nice but clearly one never can fully appreciate or
anticipate every possible nuance in any project of any size...

But, change orders are the heart of many operations...in the former life
in the nuclear utility (vendor) business there was one particular vendor
that was notorious for low-balling initial bids and always ending up w/
higher end costs w/ change-order costs than the highest initial bid.
With time it became so apparent our sales engineers developed a whole
presentation policy based on their past performance. Not easy to deal
with as individual, of course...

--

On 11/1/2010 8:45 AM, jamesgangnc wrote:

In general with contractors it seems best to finalize your
requirements before asking for a quote.

Always ...

Then decide if the total
price is worth the finished product. If you get into "how much did
each piece cost" or "what will it cost if I change this" after the
quote that will lead to frustration.

If you change anything that is
an opportunity to charge you for the change.

It should be written in stone _in the contract_ that folks who can't
make up, or change, their minds need to pay ... not the contractor.

And, as it should be.

Decide, after the quote and agreement, that you want a different type of
Lazy Susan in a corner cabinet, or arbitrarily change the size of the
refrigerator or microwave, can cause two entire walls of cabinets to be
redesigned, both uppers and lowers. Something as seemingly simple as
changing the counter top thickness can necessitate a complete redesign.

Depending upon the underlying material a particular color being applied
can sometimes mean extra steps in application, number of coats,
difference in top coats, etc. Some dyes are expensive and not readily
available in all locales. This can easily double the contractor's costs
if a color you originally specified has been purchased, shipped and paid
for.

Then take into account that many, if not most, of these jobs are based
on a materials cost plus a percentage factor for overhead, labor and
profit ... change your mind about something already purchased and you
understand how quickly a change can become seemingly "unreasonable" on
the surface.

While the OP's original problem seems a bit out of line on the surface.
Best thing is to simply ask for an explanation of the charges for the
change.

What is a given is that a contract without clear cut provisions for
"change orders" is dangerous for both parties.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On 11/1/2010 12:35 AM, Sam Takoy wrote:
Hi,

We are getting kitchen cabinets made by a local custom cabinet maker.
The total cost of the project is about $20k.

We have just asked him whether the two island pieces can be stained with
a different dyes (he uses dyes rather than stains). He said that it
would cost an extra $750.

I was a little shocked at the 20K.

Assuming this is very high end work, then finishing the piece is no
easy task. The dyes require somewhat more care and it may be that the
finish is complex in itself, that can depend on detailing in the
construction and what kind of relief is in the work. This may cover time
in getting the finish just right, and not wanting to be bothered with
it. It may be a price designed to get you to say no.

You do appear to be paying a lot all around.

I'm not familiar with the cabinet trade, so I'm just postulating what
hasn't been said, but I think should. Someone with more experience
should know.

Jeff

I did not expect to incur an extra cost here, so I was very surprised by
this answer. Before I ask a follow up question, I'd like to educate
myself as to what might the reason for the extra cost. My naive thought
was that there should not be an extra cost to closing a jar, putting it
back on the shelf and opening a different jar, but clearly there is more
to it than that.

What is it?

Thanks in advance,

Sam

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Sam Takoy" wrote in message
...
Hi,

We are getting kitchen cabinets made by a local custom cabinet maker. The
total cost of the project is about $20k.

We have just asked him whether the two island pieces can be stained with
a different dyes (he uses dyes rather than stains). He said that it would
cost an extra $750.

I did not expect to incur an extra cost here, so I was very surprised by
this answer. Before I ask a follow up question, I'd like to educate
myself as to what might the reason for the extra cost. My naive thought
was that there should not be an extra cost to closing a jar, putting it
back on the shelf and opening a different jar, but clearly there is more
to it than that.

What is it?

Thanks in advance,

Sam


First off, changes after the fact do cost money. FWIW I am having a home
built by a know builder. Adding 1 more ceiling fan to the previously agreed
on 8, resulted in the extra price for the fan, plus a $350 admin. fee. They
absorbed the admin. fee with out me asking, as a courtesy.

But $750 does sound high unless some of this work is being "farmed out" to
other contractors, and or he is getting a discount for materials all in the
came color.

On 11/1/2010 11:52 AM, Leon wrote:

First off, changes after the fact do cost money. FWIW I am having a home
built by a know builder. Adding 1 more ceiling fan to the previously agreed
on 8, resulted in the extra price for the fan, plus a $350 admin. fee. They
absorbed the admin. fee with out me asking, as a courtesy.

Maybe for the sake of their reputation?



But $750 does sound high unless some of this work is being "farmed out" to
other contractors, and or he is getting a discount for materials all in the
came color.

"Leon" wrote in message
...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Sam Takoy" wrote in message
...
Hi,

We are getting kitchen cabinets made by a local custom cabinet maker.
The total cost of the project is about $20k.

We have just asked him whether the two island pieces can be stained with
a different dyes (he uses dyes rather than stains). He said that it
would cost an extra $750.

I did not expect to incur an extra cost here, so I was very surprised by
this answer. Before I ask a follow up question, I'd like to educate
myself as to what might the reason for the extra cost. My naive thought
was that there should not be an extra cost to closing a jar, putting it
back on the shelf and opening a different jar, but clearly there is more
to it than that.

What is it?

Thanks in advance,

Sam


First off, changes after the fact do cost money. FWIW I am having a home
built by a know builder. Adding 1 more ceiling fan to the previously
agreed on 8, resulted in the extra price for the fan, plus a $350 admin.
fee. They absorbed the admin. fee with out me asking, as a courtesy.


An "admin fee" of $350??? If they hadn't waived it, you definitely
should've asked what the hell kind of "admin" they were talking about.

On 11/1/2010 12:15 PM, JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
"Sam wrote in message
...
Hi,

We are getting kitchen cabinets made by a local custom cabinet maker.
The total cost of the project is about $20k.

We have just asked him whether the two island pieces can be stained with
a different dyes (he uses dyes rather than stains). He said that it
would cost an extra $750.

I did not expect to incur an extra cost here, so I was very surprised by
this answer. Before I ask a follow up question, I'd like to educate
myself as to what might the reason for the extra cost. My naive thought
was that there should not be an extra cost to closing a jar, putting it
back on the shelf and opening a different jar, but clearly there is more
to it than that.

What is it?

Thanks in advance,

Sam


First off, changes after the fact do cost money. FWIW I am having a home
built by a know builder. Adding 1 more ceiling fan to the previously
agreed on 8, resulted in the extra price for the fan, plus a $350 admin.
fee. They absorbed the admin. fee with out me asking, as a courtesy.


An "admin fee" of $350??? If they hadn't waived it, you definitely
should've asked what the hell kind of "admin" they were talking about.



FWIW, when buying my last 2 cars, from two different dealerships owned
by the same firm, they wrote up the invoice with a $150 "administrative
fee". Both printed new invoices without that fee upon "request". Hope
that may save someone some $.

Bill

On Nov 1, 12:15*pm, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:
"Leon" wrote in message

...







"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Sam Takoy" wrote in message
...
Hi,

We are getting kitchen cabinets made by a local custom cabinet maker.
The total cost of the project is about $20k.

We have just asked him whether the two island pieces can be stained with
a different dyes (he uses dyes rather than stains). He said that it
would cost an extra $750.

I did not expect to incur an extra cost here, so I was very surprised by
this answer. Before I ask a follow up question, I'd like to educate
myself as to what might the reason for the extra cost. My naive thought
was that there should not be an extra cost to closing a jar, putting it
back on the shelf and opening a different jar, but clearly there is more
to it than that.

What is it?

Thanks in advance,

Sam

First off, changes after the fact do cost money. *FWIW I am having a home
built by a know builder. *Adding 1 more ceiling fan to the previously
agreed on 8, resulted in the extra price for the fan, plus a $350 admin..
fee. *They absorbed the admin. fee with out me asking, as a courtesy.

An "admin fee" of $350??? *If they hadn't waived it, you definitely
should've asked what the hell kind of "admin" they were talking about.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Sometimes with changes you have to mark it up. Sometimes you eat it
and shut up for the good of the "cause" I have to say in both
instances above they seem a little high. I glad swingman's guy ate it
though.
$750 sound way high IMHO, but I'm not the one doing it...

RP

...and that is OK in your book?

To each his own but for the inconvenience of doing it differently (for
you)... priceless.


"Robatoy" wrote in message
...
I disagree with Lew, that if your total margins are going to be
expected to come from your extras, you're doing it wrong. Extras are
an inconvenience and shouldn't cost a builder money (including his
normal margins)..... but as a profit centre I think it is wrong.

Now if a client's changes become such that it starts to infringe upon
the availability of the shop space and manpower to move onto the next
project, hit them hard with 'discouragement fees'.

"should" being the key word there.

You are too nice to your customers. You still want business later...LOL



"Robatoy" wrote in message
...
To elaborate on my comment to Lew...... A quote should already include
a percentage for contingencies. A stain change.... a reputation is
worth more than those few bucks you can maybe squeeze out of client.
Industrial business is a different story.

On Nov 1, 12:57*pm, "Josepi" wrote:
Contractors do not charge for paperwork directly. *That point would be moot.

When I spec'd a home with a builder I demanded plywood subflooring and
stated I would pay the cost. He told me some outrageous figure that was
about twice what I would pay for just the plywood without any rebates or
compensation for the OSB board not used.

I agreed to pay it and *then was told,

* "We don't build that way, anyway. Go elsewhere, is you want that". I did.

I have no trouble believing that someone told you to go away even
after you agreed to pay what they asked.

R

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:

How long do you suppose it would take (in actual hours) to
"administer" one more ceiling fan into the equation? We're not
talking about doing the actual installation. We're talking about
paperwork.

So, how long?
---------
$750 for your contractor.

Since I would have to acquaint myself with the job, I'd want $2K as an
inspection fee, then could give you an educated guess, but $750 seems
a little light, especially since I detest paperwork.

Lew

On 11/1/10 10:14 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 11/1/2010 8:45 AM, jamesgangnc wrote:

In general with contractors it seems best to finalize your
requirements before asking for a quote.

Always ...

Then decide if the total
price is worth the finished product. If you get into "how much did
each piece cost" or "what will it cost if I change this" after the
quote that will lead to frustration.

If you change anything that is
an opportunity to charge you for the change.

It should be written in stone _in the contract_ that folks who can't
make up, or change, their minds need to pay ... not the contractor.

And, as it should be.

Decide, after the quote and agreement, that you want a different type of
Lazy Susan in a corner cabinet, or arbitrarily change the size of the
refrigerator or microwave, can cause two entire walls of cabinets to be
redesigned, both uppers and lowers. Something as seemingly simple as
changing the counter top thickness can necessitate a complete redesign.

Depending upon the underlying material a particular color being applied
can sometimes mean extra steps in application, number of coats,
difference in top coats, etc. Some dyes are expensive and not readily
available in all locales. This can easily double the contractor's costs
if a color you originally specified has been purchased, shipped and paid
for.

Then take into account that many, if not most, of these jobs are based
on a materials cost plus a percentage factor for overhead, labor and
profit ... change your mind about something already purchased and you
understand how quickly a change can become seemingly "unreasonable" on
the surface.

While the OP's original problem seems a bit out of line on the surface.
Best thing is to simply ask for an explanation of the charges for the
change.

What is a given is that a contract without clear cut provisions for
"change orders" is dangerous for both parties.


Best answer. The bottom line is, on 20 grand, be glad it's only $750.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
eb.com...
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:

How long do you suppose it would take (in actual hours) to "administer"
one more ceiling fan into the equation? We're not talking about doing the
actual installation. We're talking about paperwork.

So, how long?
---------
$750 for your contractor.

Since I would have to acquaint myself with the job, I'd want $2K as an
inspection fee, then could give you an educated guess, but $750 seems a
little light, especially since I detest paperwork.

Lew




Sounds to me like the homeowner should ask that all ceiling light boxes be
installed with whatever bracing is needed JUST IN CASE a fan is added later.

On 11/1/10 11:15 AM, JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
wrote in message
First off, changes after the fact do cost money. FWIW I am having a home
built by a know builder. Adding 1 more ceiling fan to the previously
agreed on 8, resulted in the extra price for the fan, plus a $350 admin.
fee. They absorbed the admin. fee with out me asking, as a courtesy.


An "admin fee" of $350??? If they hadn't waived it, you definitely
should've asked what the hell kind of "admin" they were talking about.


If the fee is in the contract, there is no argument. It could be a
legitimate fee to cover the costs of making all the changes,
administratively, that a corporation has to do when they become a
corporation, just to cover their butts. Or it could be that *plus* some
just to keep clients from constantly making changes they consider to be
"no big deal."


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:

Sounds to me like the homeowner should ask that all ceiling light
boxes be installed with whatever bracing is needed JUST IN CASE a
fan is added later.

-----------------------
What about the electrical service feeding the fans?

Lew

On Nov 1, 12:59*pm, Robatoy wrote:

To elaborate on my comment to Lew...... A quote should already include
a percentage for contingencies. A stain change.... a reputation is
worth more than those few bucks you can maybe squeeze out of client.
Industrial business is a different story.

A customer requested change is not a contingency item. It is an
extra.

The OP is requesting a change, we have no idea what is involved in the
change, but there is general agreement that a $750 charge for a couple
of cabinets worth of changed stain is a "Whatchya talking about,
Willis?!" Q&A session with the contractor.

To the OP, please post the contractor's explanation of the seemingly
high charge when you get it.

R

On Nov 1, 1:32*pm, "Lew Hodgett" wrote:
*"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
Sounds to me like the homeowner should ask that all ceiling light
boxes be installed with whatever bracing is needed JUST IN CASE a
fan is added later.

-----------------------
What about the electrical service feeding the fans?

Lew

Use ceiling scissors to cut a path for the wires later? g

Might as well run some cat5 for special effects lighting later.

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
eb.com...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:

Sounds to me like the homeowner should ask that all ceiling light boxes
be installed with whatever bracing is needed JUST IN CASE a fan is added
later.

-----------------------
What about the electrical service feeding the fans?

Lew


Admittedly, I've been assuming that before he added another ceiling fan,
there was already a plan place for a box in that same position, to service a
light. In this case, the wiring would be the same. If not, then the $350
charge makes some sense.

On 11/01/10 1:42 PM, JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"Lew wrote in message
eb.com...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:

Sounds to me like the homeowner should ask that all ceiling light boxes
be installed with whatever bracing is needed JUST IN CASE a fan is added
later.

-----------------------
What about the electrical service feeding the fans?

Lew


Admittedly, I've been assuming that before he added another ceiling fan,
there was already a plan place for a box in that same position, to service a
light. In this case, the wiring would be the same. If not, then the $350
charge makes some sense.


Also had all lighting/fans been purchased?
The guy needs to return an existing fixture and pick up a fan, that
costs money, in addition to paperwork, time for the client to pick out
the fan they want assuming they aren't all the same or worst case a
special order style. Too many questions.

--
Froz...


The system will be down for 10 days for preventive maintenance.

RicodJour wrote:
On Nov 1, 12:59 pm, Robatoy wrote:

To elaborate on my comment to Lew...... A quote should already
include a percentage for contingencies. A stain change.... a
reputation is worth more than those few bucks you can maybe squeeze
out of client. Industrial business is a different story.

A customer requested change is not a contingency item. It is an
extra.

The OP is requesting a change, we have no idea what is involved in the
change, but there is general agreement that a $750 charge for a couple
of cabinets worth of changed stain is a "Whatchya talking about,
Willis?!" Q&A session with the contractor.

To the OP, please post the contractor's explanation of the seemingly
high charge when you get it.

R

This might have already been said - and I confess I have not been really
following this thread... I have experienced (too many times), when after a
price and a scope of work has been agreed upon, the "can you just"'s start
happening. You know - what is called scope creep. I've seen it in my
professional life and I've seen it in my side jobs. The consumer is seldom
aware of the real costs to this little extra and that little extra, since to
their uneducated eye, it looks like a simple enough little add-on. After a
fashion, you decide you don't want to deal with these things, so you come up
with some sort of scheme that makes it more difficult for scope creep to
happen. Adding prohibitive costs is certainly one very valid way of
addressing this. What's amazing is that it's easy to see people who are on
the receiving end of this complain about it, while at the same time, they
will often be the advocate of it when they are speaking from the supplier's
side of the story.

What people often forget is that it is not alway about the real work
involved. It's often about the impact to schedules. A business will
schedule work out in advance of the work at hand. Start adding extras to
the work at hand and very quickly, you can't start the scheduled work behind
it on time. Now you've got a problem. You have to make the problems pay
for themselves.


--

-Mike-

On a tangent...

Does anyone else have "I don't want this job" pricing?
When I get someone or something which I foresee as having way too high a
*PITA factor, I will often just set the price so high that I figure
they'll either balk or if they accept it, I'm making so much it's worth
it to put up with all the extra crap involved.

(*pain in the ass)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Nov 1, 3:05*pm, "Mike Marlow" wrote:
RicodJour wrote:
On Nov 1, 12:59 pm, Robatoy wrote:

To elaborate on my comment to Lew...... A quote should already
include a percentage for contingencies. A stain change.... a
reputation is worth more than those few bucks you can maybe squeeze
out of client. Industrial business is a different story.

A customer requested change is not a contingency item. *It is an
extra.

The OP is requesting a change, we have no idea what is involved in the
change, but there is general agreement that a $750 charge for a couple
of cabinets worth of changed stain is a "Whatchya talking about,
Willis?!" Q&A session with the contractor.

To the OP, please post the contractor's explanation of the seemingly
high charge when you get it.


This might have already been said - and I confess I have not been really
following this thread... *I have experienced (too many times), when after a
price and a scope of work has been agreed upon, the "can you just"'s start
happening. *You know - what is called scope creep. *I've seen it in my
professional life and I've seen it in my side jobs. *The consumer is seldom
aware of the real costs to this little extra and that little extra, since to
their uneducated eye, it looks like a simple enough little add-on. *After a
fashion, you decide you don't want to deal with these things, so you come up
with some sort of scheme that makes it more difficult for scope creep to
happen. *Adding prohibitive costs is certainly one very valid way of
addressing this. *What's amazing is that it's easy to see people who are on
the receiving end of this complain about it, while at the same time, they
will often be the advocate of it when they are speaking from the supplier's
side of the story.

What people often forget is that it is not alway about the real work
involved. *It's often about the impact to schedules. *A business will
schedule work out in advance of the work at hand. *Start adding extras to
the work at hand and very quickly, you can't start the scheduled work behind
it on time. *Now you've got a problem. *You have to make the problems pay
for themselves.

Right. I call them wallyas..."Wallya at it, why don't we put an
arched transom over that door?"

I suppose if someone commonly did pretty straightforward projects,
where the extras didn't amount to a large percentage, then, sure, not
treating extras as a profit centre and waiving administrative fees is
not a big deal. I pick my own charities, and a paying customer is not
one of them. I don't gouge. On occasion I will waive a fee and the
owner appreciates the courtesy.

I've had projects where the kitchen remodeling contract price was
double the original ballpark estimate, the final contract work was
again doubled with extras, and _that_ was doubled with the other stuff
I did on the house. Am I supposed to write up a new contract for an
extra, regardless of the size of the extra or the number of them?
That makes no sense at all. My contract is complete and there's no
reason to add another one. It would just muddy the water. Of course
extras are _a_ profit center, but, as they are extras they can't be
_the_ profit centaur, only another one.

I'm just curious what the OP's contractor's justification is. I'm
betting it's half real and half greed.

R

On 11/1/2010 12:37 PM, Robatoy wrote:
On Nov 1, 1:32 pm, "Lew wrote:
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
Sounds to me like the homeowner should ask that all ceiling light
boxes be installed with whatever bracing is needed JUST IN CASE a
fan is added later.

-----------------------
What about the electrical service feeding the fans?

Lew

Use ceiling scissors to cut a path for the wires later?g

"Shears", Rob! ferrcrisssakes, you can't charge enough for "scissors"!!

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:


Sounds to me like the homeowner should ask that all ceiling light
boxes be installed with whatever bracing is needed JUST IN CASE a fan
is added later.

Sure they could, but that would be outside of the scope of this discussion.
That would be a wiring spec.

--

-Mike-

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
eb.com...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:

Sounds to me like the homeowner should ask that all ceiling light
boxes be installed with whatever bracing is needed JUST IN CASE a
fan is added later.

-----------------------
What about the electrical service feeding the fans?

Lew


Admittedly, I've been assuming that before he added another ceiling
fan, there was already a plan place for a box in that same position,
to service a light. In this case, the wiring would be the same. If
not, then the $350 charge makes some sense.

The wiring would not be the same.

--

-Mike-

On Nov 1, 3:21*pm, -MIKE- wrote:
On a tangent...

Does anyone else have "I don't want this job" pricing?
When I get someone or something which I foresee as having way too high a
*PITA factor, I will often just set the price so high that I figure
they'll either balk or if they accept it, I'm making so much it's worth
it to put up with all the extra crap involved.

It depends on what the project is. In a lot of situations it almost
doesn't matter how much you'd charge as you're going to take a hit
anyway. If you highball the estimate to make them go away, they'll
whine to everybody they know that you're overpriced. If you highball
them and they still go for it, they'll fight you every step of the
way, make what should be enjoyable into a nightmare, and at the end
they'll still bad mouth you to everyone they know.

Best thing to do is to politely beg out of giving them an estimate at
all, citing job backlog, "our company isn't a good fit for your sort
of project" or some such, and then refer them to your competition.

R

"Mike Marlow" wrote in message
...
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
eb.com...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:

Sounds to me like the homeowner should ask that all ceiling light
boxes be installed with whatever bracing is needed JUST IN CASE a
fan is added later.

-----------------------
What about the electrical service feeding the fans?

Lew


Admittedly, I've been assuming that before he added another ceiling
fan, there was already a plan place for a box in that same position,
to service a light. In this case, the wiring would be the same. If
not, then the $350 charge makes some sense.

The wiring would not be the same.


Depends on the fan. I installed a Casablanca fan using existing wiring, as
per the instructions. 3 wires. Nothing unusual.