I recently painted a couple of casement windows by removing them and working
on them indoors. They were correctly primed and painted according to
instructions, except that due to time constraints, drying time was AT LEAST
5-6 times longer (after each coat) than recommended. In other words, just
right.

I did the same with the frames into which the windows were installed.
Weather was in the 70s and dry for 10 days straight, so there was plenty of
curing time between coats. All parts were dry when the windows were
reinstalled.

Even so, the first time I opened two of the windows after they'd been
installed & closed for a couple of days, the mating surfaces stuck badly,
damaging the paint in one small spot. Both primer & paint were top of the
line Sherwin-Williams stuff. Finish coat was a satin finish exterior latex.

On 2010-10-22, JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

line Sherwin-Williams stuff. Finish coat was a satin finish exterior latex.

You should be asking Sherwin-Williams.

nb

On Fri, 22 Oct 2010 11:46:04 -0400, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

I recently painted a couple of casement windows by removing them and working
on them indoors. They were correctly primed and painted according to
instructions, except that due to time constraints, drying time was AT LEAST
5-6 times longer (after each coat) than recommended. In other words, just
right.

I did the same with the frames into which the windows were installed.
Weather was in the 70s and dry for 10 days straight, so there was plenty of
curing time between coats. All parts were dry when the windows were
reinstalled.

Even so, the first time I opened two of the windows after they'd been
installed & closed for a couple of days, the mating surfaces stuck badly,
damaging the paint in one small spot. Both primer & paint were top of the
line Sherwin-Williams stuff. Finish coat was a satin finish exterior latex.


"One small spot" pretty much tells what happened.
That's where you said the damage was, so all the rest of the paint
dried fine.
You missed a bubble or run, and popped it when you put the windows
back in. Then it glued window to frame.
Only had to be on one surface.
Try to be more careful.
Attention to detail I think they call it.
Holidays are the other side of that.

--Vic

On Oct 22, 11:46*am, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:
Even so, the first time I opened two of the windows after they'd been
installed & closed for a couple of days, the mating surfaces stuck badly,
damaging the paint in one small spot.

Paint can take 30+ days to cure completely down to the base. The
pressure of the windows pushed the uncured paint to the surface.
Instant stiction.

On Oct 22, 10:46*am, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:
I recently painted a couple of casement windows by removing them and working
on them indoors. They were correctly primed and painted according to
instructions, except that due to time constraints, drying time was AT LEAST
5-6 times longer (after each coat) than recommended. In other words, just
right.

I did the same with the frames into which the windows were installed.
Weather was in the 70s and dry for 10 days straight, so there was plenty of
curing time between coats. All parts were dry when the windows were
reinstalled.

Even so, the first time I opened two of the windows after they'd been
installed & closed for a couple of days, the mating surfaces stuck badly,
damaging the paint in one small spot. *Both primer & paint were top of the
line Sherwin-Williams stuff. Finish coat was a satin finish exterior latex.

On Oct 22, 10:46*am, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:
I recently painted a couple of casement windows by removing them and working
on them indoors. They were correctly primed and painted according to
instructions, except that due to time constraints, drying time was AT LEAST
5-6 times longer (after each coat) than recommended. In other words, just
right.

I did the same with the frames into which the windows were installed.
Weather was in the 70s and dry for 10 days straight, so there was plenty of
curing time between coats. All parts were dry when the windows were
reinstalled.

Even so, the first time I opened two of the windows after they'd been
installed & closed for a couple of days, the mating surfaces stuck badly,
damaging the paint in one small spot. *Both primer & paint were top of the
line Sherwin-Williams stuff. Finish coat was a satin finish exterior latex.

On 10/22/2010 10:46 AM, JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
I recently painted a couple of casement windows by removing them and working
on them indoors. They were correctly primed and painted according to
instructions, except that due to time constraints, drying time was AT LEAST
5-6 times longer (after each coat) than recommended. In other words, just
right.

I did the same with the frames into which the windows were installed.
Weather was in the 70s and dry for 10 days straight, so there was plenty of
curing time between coats. All parts were dry when the windows were
reinstalled.

Even so, the first time I opened two of the windows after they'd been
installed& closed for a couple of days, the mating surfaces stuck badly,
damaging the paint in one small spot. Both primer& paint were top of the
line Sherwin-Williams stuff. Finish coat was a satin finish exterior latex.



Did you consider putting some wax lubricant on the sliding surfaces?

TDD

On Oct 23, 2:01*am, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
On 10/22/2010 10:46 AM, JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

I recently painted a couple of casement windows by removing them and working
on them indoors. They were correctly primed and painted according to
instructions, except that due to time constraints, drying time was AT LEAST
5-6 times longer (after each coat) than recommended. In other words, just
right.

I did the same with the frames into which the windows were installed.
Weather was in the 70s and dry for 10 days straight, so there was plenty of
curing time between coats. All parts were dry when the windows were
reinstalled.

Even so, the first time I opened two of the windows after they'd been
installed& *closed for a couple of days, the mating surfaces stuck badly,
damaging the paint in one small spot. *Both primer& *paint were top of the
line Sherwin-Williams stuff. Finish coat was a satin finish exterior latex.

Did you consider putting some wax lubricant on the sliding surfaces?

That would make re-painting at a later date problematic. Avoid
silicone and avoid wax, or plan on disassembly and degreasing every
time you paint.

R

The Homeowners Hub site is not a help forum.
It's an *advertising* forum that invades real
forums (like "alt.home.repair", part of
"usenet") parasitically in order to generate
free advertising for itself, which continually
advances its search engine placement, thereby
increasing its own revenue through its click-
through advertising commissions.

So the first thing you should do is write them
an email and tell them to quit spamming.

Then try to find your way here through proper
channels. Please do a google search on "Usenet"
and post the regular way.



--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Nestor Kelebay" wrote in message
roups.com...
responding to
http://www.homeownershub.com/mainten...er-593845-.htm

Oops. Forgot the link for the paint I *almost* chose:
http://www.sherwin-williams.com/do_i...oatings/paint/

On Oct 23, 9:50*am, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:
"RicodJour" wrote in message

Joe, what paint did you get?

======================

I used this primer: http://www.sherwin-williams.com/do_i.../multipurpose_...

I used this paint: http://www.sherwin-williams.com/do_i.../resilience_ex...

I asked about this paint, but both of the store guys were sort of "old
school" and said "Self-priming...not with old windows where there's some old
paint and some bare wood. Do it the regular way."

As mentioned earlier, the windows were removed and painted indoors. I wore
grey t-shirts and white sneakers while working. I used Purdy brushes.
Windows were laid flat on a work surface. When they were flipped over to
paint the other side, blocks were placed under the glass so the windows
wouldn't be resting on the surface painted the day before. Curing time was
well in excess of what was stated on the paint cans.

The frames were not laid flat during painting because my son had borrowed my
floor jack, so I had no way of tipping the house on its side. And last time
I did that, all the dishes fell out of the kitchen cabinets. What a mess.

I used a green ladder.

The ladder was definitely the problem. Please visit www.ladderqualityinstitue.org
and click on the "Why ladders affect paint adhesion" link.

The SW data sheet says to use an oil primer on wood under the
Resilience top coats. I know you were repainting, but were there any
bare wood spots? I'm expecting a "No" answer.

I'm in the habit of lightly sanding glossy surfaces prior to painting
(old habits...), but the primer you used specifically says, "Adheres
tightly to most surfaces, including glossy paint and paneling", so
that shouldn't have been an issue.

There are a couple or three things that could have happened. There's
a time limit for topcoating over the primer, both minimum and
maximum. How long was it before you topcoated the sash in question?
The other possiblity, the one I'm guessing happened, is that a couple
or three coats on each mating surface created too much buildup and the
failed area was pressed tightly together. The paint may have been
"fully dry" for painting purposes, but not 100% dry on a molecular
basis, so the two surfaces pressed together was enough to cause
bonding on a molecular level. I was only half-kidding about the Van
der Waal forces in my earlier post.

I don't know how old your windows are, or how many previous coats of
paint they had on, but at some point the window has to be planed/
sanded down to allow for the new paint buildup. Most times the only
way you can tell when this needs to be done is to have an adhesion
failure such as yours.

Check out the pulled paint on both surfaces and see if you can tell
which coating failed. Maybe it was the primer to old surface bond, or
the topcoat to primer. This should help guide you in future
repainting.

R

"RicodJour" wrote in message
...
On Oct 23, 9:50 am, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:
"RicodJour" wrote in message

Joe, what paint did you get?

======================

I used this primer:
http://www.sherwin-williams.com/do_i.../multipurpose_...

I used this paint:
http://www.sherwin-williams.com/do_i.../resilience_ex...

I asked about this paint, but both of the store guys were sort of "old
school" and said "Self-priming...not with old windows where there's some
old
paint and some bare wood. Do it the regular way."

As mentioned earlier, the windows were removed and painted indoors. I wore
grey t-shirts and white sneakers while working. I used Purdy brushes.
Windows were laid flat on a work surface. When they were flipped over to
paint the other side, blocks were placed under the glass so the windows
wouldn't be resting on the surface painted the day before. Curing time was
well in excess of what was stated on the paint cans.

The frames were not laid flat during painting because my son had borrowed
my
floor jack, so I had no way of tipping the house on its side. And last
time
I did that, all the dishes fell out of the kitchen cabinets. What a mess.

I used a green ladder.

The ladder was definitely the problem. Please visit
www.ladderqualityinstitue.org
and click on the "Why ladders affect paint adhesion" link.

The SW data sheet says to use an oil primer on wood under the
Resilience top coats. I know you were repainting, but were there any
bare wood spots? I'm expecting a "No" answer.

I'm in the habit of lightly sanding glossy surfaces prior to painting
(old habits...), but the primer you used specifically says, "Adheres
tightly to most surfaces, including glossy paint and paneling", so
that shouldn't have been an issue.

There are a couple or three things that could have happened. There's
a time limit for topcoating over the primer, both minimum and
maximum. How long was it before you topcoated the sash in question?
The other possiblity, the one I'm guessing happened, is that a couple
or three coats on each mating surface created too much buildup and the
failed area was pressed tightly together. The paint may have been
"fully dry" for painting purposes, but not 100% dry on a molecular
basis, so the two surfaces pressed together was enough to cause
bonding on a molecular level. I was only half-kidding about the Van
der Waal forces in my earlier post.

I don't know how old your windows are, or how many previous coats of
paint they had on, but at some point the window has to be planed/
sanded down to allow for the new paint buildup. Most times the only
way you can tell when this needs to be done is to have an adhesion
failure such as yours.

Check out the pulled paint on both surfaces and see if you can tell
which coating failed. Maybe it was the primer to old surface bond, or
the topcoat to primer. This should help guide you in future
repainting.

R
====================


The windows are the originals from 1956, when the house was built. The next
coating they'll get will consist of dead presidents. New windows, in other
words. The current ones look great when they're painted, but this is Western
NY. It gets cold here, and I'm tired of doing the clear plastic dance every
October.

The first window I painted was a non-movable one on the garage. I started
with oil primer, but the temp was so high (even with the window in shade)
that the primer began to gum up as I was applying it. So, I switched to
latex for the rest of the windows. Maybe that was the problem. In any case,
the windows are in much better shape than they were before.

On Oct 23, 1:48*pm, (Nestor Kelebay)
wrote:
JoeSpareBedroom:

What colour was the paint you used?

{slapping my head} Hey Nestor, your middle name wouldn't be Doh!,
would it?

If you used an acrylic paint, there is one remaining possibility I can
think of, but it will go away with time. *That is, the stickiness you're
experiencing will go away by itself.

Nice of you to admit you were wrong, nimrod.

And, it involves the colour of the paint, not the colour of the ladder.

I don't even know where you're going with this, but I already know
based on past experience that you're going to be wrong. Let's wait
and see - this should be fun!

Nowadays, few paint companies use coloured tint bases any more. *So, if
you want a red, green or blue paint, they take a tint base with NO
coloured pigments in it, that would otherwise dry transluscent and
colourless, and add lots and lots and lots of colourant to that tint base
in the paint tinting machine to make it the desired colour.

Yep! I was right, you are a nimrod. So all of that titanium dioxide
in every paint out there dries translucent, huh? You really are a
piece of work. The pigments in paint are the expensive stuff (BTW,
pigment and colorants are not interchangeable words in this
instance). The colorants are more expensive than the titanium dioxide
pigment base that gives all paint its white color. So, to save money
on the pigment cost, they spend more money on the colorant. I know
you don't think about it, but do you even read what you write, or just
start typing?

Now, that colourant they're adding consists of coloured particles (called
"pigments") dispersed in glycerine. *The reason why they use glycerine as
the base for paint tinting colourants is because it is readily soluble in
both water and mineral spirits. *So, the same colourants (and hence, the
same paint tinting machine) can be used to tint both latex and oil based
paints.

Do you think it's even remotely possible that that's why _any_ paint
manufacturer specifically limits how much colorant can be put into a
can of paint? Hmmm? So, now, instead of admitting that you're
blowing smoke out of your fundamental orifice, it's the _paint
manufacturers_ that don't know what they're doing. Of course - that
should have been obvious.

And, it's the AMOUNT of glycerine that may have been added to the paint
that may be the source of the problem. *Glycerine is very slow to
evaporate, and the presence of a lot of glycerine in your paint would
greatly extend it's drying time. *This is the reason why you can
potentially ruin a latex paint by adding too much colourant to it.

Interesting. Totally stupid and wrong, but interesting. Joe didn't
add any pigments, if in fact any pigment was added at all. IF pigment
was added, it was added by the Sherwin Williams pro, who, unlike you,
actually know what the **** they're talking about. Again, instead of
asking a question you pull stuff out of your ass. I'd bet dollars to
donuts that Joe's windows are white, or close to it. Joe, mind
answering the question - what color paint did you use? I'm hungry and
some donuts would go nicely. Thanks.

But, that glycerine will eventually evaporate from the paint film, and so
that stickiness should also go away by itself if that is what's causing it.

On Sat, 23 Oct 2010 17:48:29 +0000,
(Nestor Kelebay) wrote:

not the colour of the ladder.

Set the hook, somebody!

"Nestor Kelebay" wrote in message
oups.com...
responding to
http://www.homeownershub.com/mainten...er-593845-.htm
Nestor Kelebay wrote:
JoeSpareBedroom:

What colour was the paint you used?


White.

On Oct 23, 2:55*pm, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:
"Nestor Kelebay" wrote in message

oups.com...

responding to
http://www.homeownershub.com/mainten...-surfaces-stic...
Nestor Kelebay wrote:
JoeSpareBedroom:

What colour was the paint you used?

White.

Gee, what a surprise. They must've added a ton of colorant to get it
white, huh?

It was a hot as hell summer in NY. I'm on Long Island, and I could
swear I heard the bay water boiling. I''m glad I didn't have to do
any painting during that heat wave. Where in western NY are you?

R

"RicodJour" wrote in message
...
On Oct 23, 2:55 pm, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:
"Nestor Kelebay" wrote in message

oups.com...

responding to
http://www.homeownershub.com/mainten...-surfaces-stic...
Nestor Kelebay wrote:
JoeSpareBedroom:

What colour was the paint you used?

White.

Gee, what a surprise. They must've added a ton of colorant to get it
white, huh?

It was a hot as hell summer in NY. I'm on Long Island, and I could
swear I heard the bay water boiling. I''m glad I didn't have to do
any painting during that heat wave. Where in western NY are you?

R

===============

Rochester. "Just past Yonkers", as my former boss believed. I'm originally
from LI. He was annoyed that I never visited his place of business in
Syosset. I bought him a map of the state.

On Oct 23, 3:43*pm, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

Rochester. "Just past Yonkers", as my former boss believed. I'm originally
from LI. He was annoyed that I never visited his place of business in
Syosset. I bought him a map of the state.

Come on - what's a little ten hour round trip drive between
friends?

R

"RicodJour" wrote in message
...
On Oct 23, 3:43 pm, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

Rochester. "Just past Yonkers", as my former boss believed. I'm originally
from LI. He was annoyed that I never visited his place of business in
Syosset. I bought him a map of the state.

Come on - what's a little ten hour round trip drive between
friends?

R
============

Ten??? More like 16 these days. I drove down there back in June and hit the
TZ bridge at 4:00 AM on a Sunday. The traffic was still bull**** all the way
through Westchester, the Throgs Neck and into Nassau County.

On Sat, 23 Oct 2010 11:14:41 -0400, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:



The windows are the originals from 1956, when the house was built. The next
coating they'll get will consist of dead presidents. New windows, in other
words. The current ones look great when they're painted, but this is Western
NY. It gets cold here, and I'm tired of doing the clear plastic dance every
October.


I painted more double-hung windows then I want to think about.
A 1/8" crack in the glazing was all I needed to redo a window.
A broken sash cord meant new chains and a complete window refurb.
Back then Ben Moore primer and gloss was the ticket. All oil.
I'd cut out soft spots and fit with new wood.
I'd replenish dried up wood with boiled linseed oil rubs.
Ah, the smell of boiled linseed oil!
The effortless sliding of a well-balanced and fitted window!
Those were the days!

Then in '97 I bought my current and probably last house.
Built in '59.
The windows were already needing some work.
Two years later they were looking worse.
I resolved to tackle them next year.
The next year they were even worse, but I managed to put my past
behind me, and ignore them. It hurt a little.
As the years went by I tuckpointed, put on a new roof, electrical
service and central air.
I did put on 2 triple-track storms where I pulled the 2 big window A/C
units. Screwed one in so it was binding from the get-go too.
Didn't even paint and reglaze the windows first.
Didn't refit the binding triple-track either.
Felt pretty bad about all that.

As the years went by my wife's garden flourished, the town put new
sidewalks in, redid the street and put in all new curbs.
My house looked real nice - except for the windows.
Every year the windows looked worse, just terrible.
I felt bad when I looked at them. But not real, real bad.
Pretty easy to think about something else.
The triple-tracks storms were in bad shape too. Latches broken off,
binding, sweating and icing in the winter.

My wife never complained about me not doing the windows, because she
wanted swing out casement windows. She hated the double-hung windows.
I swore by double-hung. All I ever knew.
No way I would pay for new windows when I already had windows.
That's just silly.
Every year I told her she'd like them when I fixed everything up.
She just smiled or frowned, depending.
And I felt guilty every fall past painting season because I hadn't
done a thing with the windows.
Wasn't too hard to put the guilt aside pretty quick, but it would pick
up again in the spring.

Then I heard from family about a guy who worked in a factory that made
vinyl-clad thermopane windows, and had a side business installing
them. Cheap.
Compared to the big outfits, real cheap.
Had him over, had the wife select what windows she wanted, and all my
window problems were gone in a couple days.
26 windows - every one, including the basements.
All window maintenance gone. Frames flashed with white aluminum.
Cost 4500 President Washingtons, and worth every one.
Been about 5 years and all the windows look good, work fine, there's
no drafts and my heating bill isn't worth talking about.
I sleep well once again.

It's real nice not having those old windows nagging me.
But the best part was how proud I feel when I think about how lazy I
was never painting those old windows. Didn't expect that bonus.
First time being lazy worked out for me.
Not that I recommend that, but you should give it some thought.

--Vic

On 2010-10-23, Vic Smith wrote:

The effortless sliding of a well-balanced and fitted window!
Those were the days!

First time being lazy worked out for me.

LOL!......

great story.

nb

On 10/23/2010 7:29 AM, RicodJour wrote:
On Oct 23, 2:01 am, The Daring
wrote:
On 10/22/2010 10:46 AM, JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

I recently painted a couple of casement windows by removing them and working
on them indoors. They were correctly primed and painted according to
instructions, except that due to time constraints, drying time was AT LEAST
5-6 times longer (after each coat) than recommended. In other words, just
right.

I did the same with the frames into which the windows were installed.
Weather was in the 70s and dry for 10 days straight, so there was plenty of
curing time between coats. All parts were dry when the windows were
reinstalled.

Even so, the first time I opened two of the windows after they'd been
installed& closed for a couple of days, the mating surfaces stuck badly,
damaging the paint in one small spot. Both primer& paint were top of the
line Sherwin-Williams stuff. Finish coat was a satin finish exterior latex.

Did you consider putting some wax lubricant on the sliding surfaces?

That would make re-painting at a later date problematic. Avoid
silicone and avoid wax, or plan on disassembly and degreasing every
time you paint.

R

I'm referring to a little saw wax not liquid wax. I don't think a touch
of wax from a wax stick will destroy a paint job or make it hard to
repaint at a later time.

TDD

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in
:

I recently painted a couple of casement windows by removing them and
working on them indoors. They were correctly primed and painted
according to instructions, except that due to time constraints, drying
time was AT LEAST 5-6 times longer (after each coat) than recommended.
In other words, just right.

I did the same with the frames into which the windows were installed.
Weather was in the 70s and dry for 10 days straight, so there was
plenty of curing time between coats. All parts were dry when the
windows were reinstalled.

Even so, the first time I opened two of the windows after they'd been
installed & closed for a couple of days, the mating surfaces stuck
badly, damaging the paint in one small spot. Both primer & paint were
top of the line Sherwin-Williams stuff. Finish coat was a satin finish
exterior latex.



I've always figured latex paint takes a month to dry.

I did some metal garage doors this summer. Door sections have an overlap.
Left the overlaps separated and let dry for a day. Put petroleum jelly on
the joints. Worked out well.

Red Green wrote in
:

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in
:

I recently painted a couple of casement windows by removing them and
working on them indoors. They were correctly primed and painted
according to instructions, except that due to time constraints,
drying time was AT LEAST 5-6 times longer (after each coat) than
recommended. In other words, just right.

I did the same with the frames into which the windows were installed.
Weather was in the 70s and dry for 10 days straight, so there was
plenty of curing time between coats. All parts were dry when the
windows were reinstalled.

Even so, the first time I opened two of the windows after they'd been
installed & closed for a couple of days, the mating surfaces stuck
badly, damaging the paint in one small spot. Both primer & paint
were top of the line Sherwin-Williams stuff. Finish coat was a satin
finish exterior latex.



I've always figured latex paint takes a month to dry.

I did some metal garage doors this summer. Door sections have an
overlap. Left the overlaps separated and let dry for a day. Put
petroleum jelly on the joints. Worked out well.



p.s. Another thing I often use on a multitude of things I don't want to
stick is a piece of waxed paper. Clamping things that were glued is a
frequent flyer.

"Nestor Kelebay" wrote in message
roups.com...

stuff snipped

You probably know polymethyl methacrylate better by the term "Plexiglas".
In the paint industry, paints that use this plastic for the binder resin
are called "100% Acrylic" paints. So, if you've ever seen that wording on
a can of paint, it simply means that the plastic film the paint forms is
the same kind of plastic that Plexiglas is made of.

Nestor, since you seem to be quite knowledgeable about adhesion technolgy, I
have a question I hope you can answer. I have several large sheets of very
expensive Plexiglas I bought for a project in 1984. Now that I am getting
around to it (there's a l-o-n-g lead time around here!) I find that I cannot
remove the protecting paper. It's immune to water, soaking, and nearly
every solvent I have tried. It's stuck tight.

Do you (or does anyone else) know how to remove the brown protective paper
after it's been sitting for 25 years?

--
Bobby G.

"Robert Green" wrote in message
...
"Nestor Kelebay" wrote in message
roups.com...

stuff snipped

You probably know polymethyl methacrylate better by the term "Plexiglas".
In the paint industry, paints that use this plastic for the binder resin
are called "100% Acrylic" paints. So, if you've ever seen that wording
on
a can of paint, it simply means that the plastic film the paint forms is
the same kind of plastic that Plexiglas is made of.

Nestor, since you seem to be quite knowledgeable about adhesion technolgy,
I
have a question I hope you can answer. I have several large sheets of
very
expensive Plexiglas I bought for a project in 1984. Now that I am getting
around to it (there's a l-o-n-g lead time around here!) I find that I
cannot
remove the protecting paper. It's immune to water, soaking, and nearly
every solvent I have tried. It's stuck tight.

Do you (or does anyone else) know how to remove the brown protective paper
after it's been sitting for 25 years?

--
Bobby G.


I've removed ancient bumper stickers using vegetable oil. Might be worth a
try. It needs to soak for a length of time known as X, where X equals "long
enough".

On 2010-10-25, Robert Green wrote:

Do you (or does anyone else) know how to remove the brown protective paper
after it's been sitting for 25 years?

Been there, wore out that t-shirt.

We had mucho plexiglass that had to be used. It was old and nothing
seemed to work at getting that damn paper off. With dozens of
solvents, and most any other chemical we could imagine at our
fingertips, we finally settled on stoddard solvent as the best choice.
It still required mucho elbow grease, but at least the solvent was of
some help and didn't hurt the plastic or render us non-reproductive
lifeforms. Use another piece of plexi as a scraper. If possible,
work outdoors. If not, wear a respirator

I feel for you, as I know what a chore it is, but sadly, there is no
easy solution, only hard work. Jes as bad, masking tape left on
stainless steel to bake in the hot sun for as little as two weeks. A
freakin' nightmare!

nb

In article ,
"Robert Green" wrote:

"Nestor Kelebay" wrote in message
roups.com...

stuff snipped

You probably know polymethyl methacrylate better by the term "Plexiglas".
In the paint industry, paints that use this plastic for the binder resin
are called "100% Acrylic" paints. So, if you've ever seen that wording on
a can of paint, it simply means that the plastic film the paint forms is
the same kind of plastic that Plexiglas is made of.

Nestor, since you seem to be quite knowledgeable about adhesion technolgy, I
have a question I hope you can answer. I have several large sheets of very
expensive Plexiglas I bought for a project in 1984. Now that I am getting
around to it (there's a l-o-n-g lead time around here!) I find that I cannot
remove the protecting paper. It's immune to water, soaking, and nearly
every solvent I have tried. It's stuck tight.

Do you (or does anyone else) know how to remove the brown protective paper
after it's been sitting for 25 years?

--
Bobby G.

This question was asked on here a few months ago, and someone suggested
heating the plexi to 100 F or so, IIRC, and the paper will peel like
new. I've not tried that myself but will next time the need arises.
Maybe shoot a heat gun at it as you peel.

On 2010-10-25, Smitty Two wrote:

This question was asked on here a few months ago, and someone suggested
heating the plexi to 100 F or so, IIRC, and the paper will peel like
new.

That certainly was not my experience. I was working in CA where
ambient temps were often over 100F. Not heat gun necessary. I doubt
25 yr old plexi paper will peel off "easily" with any help short of
god or magic. After I posted, I got to thinking back. Some of it we
jes hadda toss. That paper was jes not gonna come off, period.

nb

On Oct 23, 11:46*pm, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
On 10/23/2010 7:29 AM, RicodJour wrote:
On Oct 23, 2:01 am, The Daring wrote:

Did you consider putting some wax lubricant on the sliding surfaces?

That would make re-painting at a later date problematic. *Avoid
silicone and avoid wax, or plan on disassembly and degreasing every
time you paint.


I'm referring to a little saw wax not liquid wax. I don't think a touch
of wax from a wax stick will destroy a paint job or make it hard to
repaint at a later time.

No, not hard, but if someone doesn't know there's wax on a surface
they won't do anything to prevent the problem that will occur. Wax
interferes with the adhesion of any water-based coating. Silicone
interferes with water or oil based coatings. Wax is used in faux
finishing circles - in many circles - as a release agent. The wax
certainly will work to reduce stiction for sliding surfaces, and it's
not necessarily a big deal if the person who put the wax on is the
person who will be doing the subsequent painting. But very few
painters, pro or amateur, routinely dewax/degrease a surface,
particularly in this day of self-priming, sticks to gloss paint,
paints - and sanding doesn't remove all traces of wax. There will be
fish-eyes.

The OP said that he had casement windows, so there's really not a lot
of sliding going on. The problem is due to paint buildup. Over time,
paint build up will interfere with hinge and latch operations. The
best time to deal with potential paint buildup problems is before a
window is repainted. The operating parts should be checked for
clearance with a piece of paper. If the paper doesn't slide out
easily when the parts are closed, the window is too tight to repaint
without some sanding.

R

"notbob" wrote in message
...
On 2010-10-25, Robert Green wrote:

Do you (or does anyone else) know how to remove the brown protective
paper
after it's been sitting for 25 years?

Been there, wore out that t-shirt.

We had mucho plexiglass that had to be used. It was old and nothing
seemed to work at getting that damn paper off. With dozens of
solvents, and most any other chemical we could imagine at our
fingertips, we finally settled on stoddard solvent as the best choice.
It still required mucho elbow grease, but at least the solvent was of
some help and didn't hurt the plastic or render us non-reproductive
lifeforms. Use another piece of plexi as a scraper. If possible,
work outdoors. If not, wear a respirator

I feel for you, as I know what a chore it is, but sadly, there is no
easy solution, only hard work. Jes as bad, masking tape left on
stainless steel to bake in the hot sun for as little as two weeks. A
freakin' nightmare!


Jeez. I was hoping for another great Usenet substance discovery like
adhesive-lined heat shrink tubing or automobile starter spray for
anesthetizing small critters needing relocation or 2 in one slot circuit
breakers.

Plexi-off or something like that. What about wallpaper remover? I seem to
remember as you peeled off the paper there was a rubbery sort of film that
was between plastic and paper. Seems like that's cured into armor.

Working with it I felt like I was in a scifi movie trying to break into an
alien space ship that looked like it was made of garbage bag paper but was
really harder than diamonds. This isn't fair. I have some big 20 by 24"
trays to soak the smaller pieces in, but one piece is a full 4' by 8' by
3/8" This may be one of those times where I just put it on Craig's list and
buy new stuff and hope to be around 25 years from now to worry about it
again. (-:

Let's hope you were the last to suffer such a fate and they now have the
solution, figuratively and literally.

Thanks for your input!

--
Bobby G.

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Robert Green" wrote in message
...
"Nestor Kelebay" wrote in message
roups.com...

stuff snipped

Nestor, since you seem to be quite knowledgeable about adhesion
technolgy,
I
have a question I hope you can answer. I have several large sheets of
very
expensive Plexiglas I bought for a project in 1984. Now that I am
getting
around to it (there's a l-o-n-g lead time around here!) I find that I
cannot
remove the protecting paper. It's immune to water, soaking, and nearly
every solvent I have tried. It's stuck tight.

Do you (or does anyone else) know how to remove the brown protective
paper
after it's been sitting for 25 years?

--
Bobby G.


I've removed ancient bumper stickers using vegetable oil. Might be worth a
try. It needs to soak for a length of time known as X, where X equals
"long
enough".

Well, I sure have enough of it to try some. This stuff doesn't even get
wet. It's like three atoms thick of pure diamond. It's laminated, too, so
you can peel the printing off and have even MORE of a mess.

Thanks,

--
Bobby G.

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
news:tVGwo.110

Syosset.

Former corporate headquarters of Lafayette Radio Electronics! Highlight of
the month would be going to Lafayette with my dad for radio and TV tubes.
My poor mom acted as if Satan and 10,000 murdering devils were sealed up
inside and when he popped the back and pulled out his cheater cord to look
for dark tubes she went to hyperventilate in the kitchen until it was over.

--
Bobby G.

On 10/25/2010 11:04 AM, Robert Green wrote:
"Nestor wrote in message
roups.com...

stuff snipped

You probably know polymethyl methacrylate better by the term "Plexiglas".
In the paint industry, paints that use this plastic for the binder resin
are called "100% Acrylic" paints. So, if you've ever seen that wording on
a can of paint, it simply means that the plastic film the paint forms is
the same kind of plastic that Plexiglas is made of.

Nestor, since you seem to be quite knowledgeable about adhesion technolgy, I
have a question I hope you can answer. I have several large sheets of very
expensive Plexiglas I bought for a project in 1984. Now that I am getting
around to it (there's a l-o-n-g lead time around here!) I find that I cannot
remove the protecting paper. It's immune to water, soaking, and nearly
every solvent I have tried. It's stuck tight.

Do you (or does anyone else) know how to remove the brown protective paper
after it's been sitting for 25 years?

--
Bobby G.



Is this that infamous table saw again? Or was that somebody else?

--
aem sends...

On 2010-10-25, Robert Green wrote:

Working with it I felt like I was in a scifi movie trying to break into an
alien space ship that looked like it was made of garbage bag paper but was
really harder than diamonds. This isn't fair.

LOL.... I know the feeling. Like I said, we jes tossed some of it.
Simply undoable. I wonder if that Goo-Gone stuff would work. Didn't
have it back then.

nb

"aemeijers" wrote in message
...
On 10/25/2010 11:04 AM, Robert Green wrote:
"Nestor wrote in message
roups.com...

stuff snipped

You probably know polymethyl methacrylate better by the term
"Plexiglas".
In the paint industry, paints that use this plastic for the binder
resin
are called "100% Acrylic" paints. So, if you've ever seen that wording
on
a can of paint, it simply means that the plastic film the paint forms
is
the same kind of plastic that Plexiglas is made of.

Nestor, since you seem to be quite knowledgeable about adhesion
technolgy, I
have a question I hope you can answer. I have several large sheets of
very
expensive Plexiglas I bought for a project in 1984. Now that I am
getting
around to it (there's a l-o-n-g lead time around here!) I find that I
cannot
remove the protecting paper. It's immune to water, soaking, and nearly
every solvent I have tried. It's stuck tight.

Do you (or does anyone else) know how to remove the brown protective
paper
after it's been sitting for 25 years?

--
Bobby G.



Is this that infamous table saw again? Or was that somebody else?

Not me! I want to build an enclosure for all the squirrels I've been
trapped so I can breed a SuperSquirrel and rule the world. (-:

--
Bobby G.

"notbob" wrote in message
...
On 2010-10-25, Robert Green wrote:

Working with it I felt like I was in a scifi movie trying to break into
an
alien space ship that looked like it was made of garbage bag paper but
was
really harder than diamonds. This isn't fair.

LOL.... I know the feeling. Like I said, we jes tossed some of it.
Simply undoable. I wonder if that Goo-Gone stuff would work. Didn't
have it back then.

What bothers me most is "what's the point???" If it's to render old stock
useless and force consumers to purchase new stock, then I suppose it's
working great, but geez, enough is enough. I believe that tomorrow I will
saw up one of the pieces into small test squares and emulate Edison's
filament search by soaking them in anything and everything I can think of.
Tomorrow I am going to try paint stripper and a heat gun. Someone's got to
put an end to the suffering of old plexiglas owners. The real kicker is
that anything that works is also likely to render the Plexi useless. They
should call it Catch22glas.

--
Bobby G.

On 2010-10-26, Robert Green wrote:

that anything that works is also likely to render the Plexi useless.

......or you sterile!

What we finally learned from the whole fiasco is, never warehouse the
stuff. Buy it when you need it and use it up.

Good luck on your experiments, but consider this. Which is cheaper?
Buying a buncha chemicals to test with or jes buying new plexi?

nb