Things are getting weirder and weirder. My original post is at the bottom.

I have received the replacement relay and capacitor today.

Installed them (it was a 2 minute job).

Plugged in the fridge.

The compressor happily started working normally, mildly vibrating and
indicating in all respects that it is running fine.

Happy after 2 minutes, I turned off the fridge, and reinstalled the
rear insulated covering panel and ground.

Plugged in again and I HEARD THE SAME OLD DREADED BUZZING SOUND. Now,
the compressor motor would not start again! It busses fomr several
seconds and the relay clicks and turns it off.

I am completely puzzled as to why exactly it turned on once, but would
not turn on again.

Any idea?

i


On 2010-08-31, Ignoramus20906 wrote:
I have an electronic Kenmore refrigerator 596.50013100. I bought it
from a private party over a year ago and it has been working great
until now. It seems very well made, overall.

Yesterday it started beeping and displaying a strange trouble signal:

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/Kenmore-Trouble.jpg

It is right above the word "Kenmore", is red and looks like a crossed
lock and an exclamation.

The temperature in the unit has been rising since then and clearly, it
is not cooling anything. Right now both freezer and fridge are at 46
degrees F.

I tried calling Kenmore, but could only speak to dummies who are
forbidden to give any diagnostics.

My question is WTF does this sign mean? It is meant to tell me
something.

Thanks

i

....
Happy after 2 minutes, I turned off the fridge, and reinstalled the
rear insulated covering panel and ground.

Plugged in again and I HEARD THE SAME OLD DREADED BUZZING SOUND. Now,
the compressor motor would not start again! It busses fomr several
seconds and the relay clicks and turns it off.

I am completely puzzled as to why exactly it turned on once, but would
not turn on again.

Any idea?

Did you try cursing and kicking? That's my normal solution to this
type problem. Its never helped, but I keep trying it anyway.

Karl

No doubt someone mor knowledgable will have something to add here, but
it sounds like the compressor is trying to start against a load. How
long was it unplugged while you were replacing the cover? I imagine it
should be unplugged at least three ininutes, and probably five.
However, I'd also imagine that there would be a timer of some sort to
prevent short-cycling. Of course, the thermal protection in the motor
would kick in eventually, but my air conditioner, for example, simply
will not run the compressor for a few minutes after you plug it in if
it had been running just prior to unplugging.

Anyway, I'd suggest that you let it rest a few minutes and then try
again.

On 9/2/2010 8:03 PM, Ignoramus28169 wrote:
Things are getting weirder and weirder. My original post is at the bottom.

I have received the replacement relay and capacitor today.

Installed them (it was a 2 minute job).

Plugged in the fridge.

The compressor happily started working normally, mildly vibrating and
indicating in all respects that it is running fine.

Happy after 2 minutes, I turned off the fridge, and reinstalled the
rear insulated covering panel and ground.

Plugged in again and I HEARD THE SAME OLD DREADED BUZZING SOUND. Now,
the compressor motor would not start again! It busses fomr several
seconds and the relay clicks and turns it off.

I am completely puzzled as to why exactly it turned on once, but would
not turn on again.

Any idea?


Take the cover back off and see if anything changes? Mebbe fridge got
shoved into the wall, and the cover got bent, and is making something
not work?

I'm no fridge expert, but when something stops working when you put the
lid on, that tells me the lid is somehow binding something up or
shorting something out.

--
aem sends...

Ignoramus28169 wrote:
Things are getting weirder and weirder. My original post is at the
bottom.

I have received the replacement relay and capacitor today.

Installed them (it was a 2 minute job).

Plugged in the fridge.

The compressor happily started working normally, mildly vibrating and
indicating in all respects that it is running fine.

Happy after 2 minutes, I turned off the fridge, and reinstalled the
rear insulated covering panel and ground.

Plugged in again and I HEARD THE SAME OLD DREADED BUZZING SOUND. Now,
the compressor motor would not start again! It busses fomr several
seconds and the relay clicks and turns it off.

I am completely puzzled as to why exactly it turned on once, but would
not turn on again.

Any idea?

i


On 2010-08-31, Ignoramus20906
wrote:
I have an electronic Kenmore refrigerator 596.50013100. I bought it
from a private party over a year ago and it has been working great
until now. It seems very well made, overall.

Yesterday it started beeping and displaying a strange trouble signal:

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/Kenmore-Trouble.jpg

It is right above the word "Kenmore", is red and looks like a crossed
lock and an exclamation.

The temperature in the unit has been rising since then and clearly,
it is not cooling anything. Right now both freezer and fridge are at
46 degrees F.

I tried calling Kenmore, but could only speak to dummies who are
forbidden to give any diagnostics.

My question is WTF does this sign mean? It is meant to tell me
something.

Thanks

i


The lit symbology indicates that the internal temperature doesn't agree with
the set point. From your description, I'd say that the compressor has an
internal problem (stuck valves, galled bearings, dessicant particles in the
compressor, etc). Most consumer grade refrigeration compressors aren't
servicable, meaning that you need to get your checkbook warmed up for a
sizeable deduction from your bank account.

That said, there are a couple things for you to do. First, remove the back
cover, leaving the ground wire unconnected, and see if it kicks off again.
If it continues to run, connect the ground wire to the chassis. If it kicks
off when you connect the ground wire, then you have to find out where the
ground fault is. Most likely, that will be inside the compressor. Don't use
it in this condition; it is a lethal weapon without the safety ground
connected.
If you have an AC clamp meter, measure the current on the hot wire going
into the compressor. It should kick up to 10A or so when the compressor
starts up, and quickly dropping down to its normal running current of a few
amps. If the current stays high after a few seconds, that means that it
isn't starting normally. The overcurrent relay tripping in a few seconds
indicate that fact. In any case, the compressor is highly suspect.

--
David
dgminala at mediacombb dot net

On 09/02/2010 05:14 PM, rangerssuck wrote:
No doubt someone mor knowledgable will have something to add here, but
it sounds like the compressor is trying to start against a load. How
long was it unplugged while you were replacing the cover? I imagine it
should be unplugged at least three ininutes, and probably five.
However, I'd also imagine that there would be a timer of some sort to
prevent short-cycling. Of course, the thermal protection in the motor
would kick in eventually, but my air conditioner, for example, simply
will not run the compressor for a few minutes after you plug it in if
it had been running just prior to unplugging.

Anyway, I'd suggest that you let it rest a few minutes and then try
again.

We had an older fridge that'd do this any time the power blinked -- and
we live out in the boonies. We learned to unplug it for a few minutes
and plug it back in.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" was written for you.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

On 2010-09-03, Karl Townsend wrote:
...
Happy after 2 minutes, I turned off the fridge, and reinstalled the
rear insulated covering panel and ground.

Plugged in again and I HEARD THE SAME OLD DREADED BUZZING SOUND. Now,
the compressor motor would not start again! It busses fomr several
seconds and the relay clicks and turns it off.

I am completely puzzled as to why exactly it turned on once, but would
not turn on again.

Any idea?

Did you try cursing and kicking? That's my normal solution to this
type problem. Its never helped, but I keep trying it anyway.


That is always my preferred approach. Sometimes it works.

i

On 2010-09-03, Ignoramus28169 wrote:
Things are getting weirder and weirder. My original post is at the bottom.

I have received the replacement relay and capacitor today.

Installed them (it was a 2 minute job).

Plugged in the fridge.

The compressor happily started working normally, mildly vibrating and
indicating in all respects that it is running fine.

Happy after 2 minutes, I turned off the fridge, and reinstalled the
rear insulated covering panel and ground.

Plugged in again and I HEARD THE SAME OLD DREADED BUZZING SOUND. Now,
the compressor motor would not start again! It busses fomr several
seconds and the relay clicks and turns it off.

I am completely puzzled as to why exactly it turned on once, but would
not turn on again.

Any idea?

Oddly enough, after waiting for a while, it started fine and is
cooling down at an acceptable rate.

i

i


On 2010-08-31, Ignoramus20906 wrote:
I have an electronic Kenmore refrigerator 596.50013100. I bought it
from a private party over a year ago and it has been working great
until now. It seems very well made, overall.

Yesterday it started beeping and displaying a strange trouble signal:

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/Kenmore-Trouble.jpg

It is right above the word "Kenmore", is red and looks like a crossed
lock and an exclamation.

The temperature in the unit has been rising since then and clearly, it
is not cooling anything. Right now both freezer and fridge are at 46
degrees F.

I tried calling Kenmore, but could only speak to dummies who are
forbidden to give any diagnostics.

My question is WTF does this sign mean? It is meant to tell me
something.

Thanks

i

Oddly enough, after waiting for a while, it started fine and is
cooling down at an acceptable rate.


Get a refrigerator thermometer (kitchen stuff department of stores), then
keep an eye on the temperature.

If there was a lot of water which came out from having it off while you
fixed it, and this happens again in a month or so, suspect the
defrost/heater/timer.

Ignoramus28169 wrote:
Oddly enough, after waiting for a while, it started fine and is
cooling down at an acceptable rate.

As someone else said it won't start if it is under a load. It has to
rest before being plugged in again.

We have a little device that looks like a cheap surge protector that
will not turn on unless it has been off for four minutes.

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson N3OWJ/4X1GM
To help restaurants, as part of the "stimulus package", everyone must order
dessert. As part of the socialized health plan, you are forbidden to eat it. :-)

On Sep 3, 1:14*am, rangerssuck wrote:
No doubt someone mor knowledgable will have something to add here, but
it sounds like the compressor is trying to start against a load. How
long was it unplugged while you were replacing the cover? I imagine it
should be unplugged at least three ininutes, and probably five.
However, I'd also imagine that there would be a timer of some sort to
prevent short-cycling. Of course, the thermal protection in the motor
would kick in eventually, but my air conditioner, for example, simply
will not run the compressor for a few minutes after you plug it in if
it had been running just prior to unplugging.

Anyway, I'd suggest that you let it rest a few minutes and then try
again.

The above is exactly right.

On Sep 3, 2:12*am, Ignoramus28169 ignoramus28...@NOSPAM.
28169.invalid wrote:
On 2010-09-03, Ignoramus28169 wrote:





Things are getting weirder and weirder. My original post is at the bottom.

I have received the replacement relay and capacitor today.

Installed them (it was a 2 minute job).

Plugged in the fridge.

The compressor happily started working normally, mildly vibrating and
indicating in all respects that it is running fine.

Happy after 2 minutes, I turned off the fridge, and reinstalled the
rear insulated covering panel and ground.

Plugged in again and I HEARD THE SAME OLD DREADED BUZZING SOUND. Now,
the compressor motor would not start again! It busses fomr several
seconds and the relay clicks and turns it off. *

I am completely puzzled as to why exactly it turned on once, but would
not turn on again.

Any idea?

Oddly enough, after waiting for a while, it started fine and is
cooling down at an acceptable rate.

i



i

On 2010-08-31, Ignoramus20906 wrote:
I have an electronic Kenmore refrigerator 596.50013100. I bought it
from a private party over a year ago and it has been working great
until now. It seems very well made, overall.

Yesterday it started beeping and displaying a strange trouble signal:

* * * * *http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/Kenmore-Trouble.jpg

It is right above the word "Kenmore", is red and looks like a crossed
lock and an exclamation.

The temperature in the unit has been rising since then and clearly, it
is not cooling anything. Right now both freezer and fridge are at 46
degrees F.

I tried calling Kenmore, but could only speak to dummies who are
forbidden to give any diagnostics.

My question is WTF does this sign mean? It is meant to tell me
something.

Thanks

i- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Not odd at all. It can't start up against a load. You need to wait
for the gas pressures to equalise in the system. Then it starts up
against no-load.
It needs to be off for around five minutes before restarting.

On Sep 2, 2:14*pm, rangerssuck wrote:
No doubt someone mor knowledgable will have something to add here, but
it sounds like the compressor is trying to start against a load. How
long was it unplugged while you were replacing the cover? I imagine it
should be unplugged at least three ininutes, and probably five.
However, I'd also imagine that there would be a timer of some sort to
prevent short-cycling. Of course, the thermal protection in the motor
would kick in eventually, but my air conditioner, for example, simply
will not run the compressor for a few minutes after you plug it in if
it had been running just prior to unplugging.

Anyway, I'd suggest that you let it rest a few minutes and then try
again.

I seem to remember I was told that you should keep it unplugged 1/2
hour.
Karl

On Thu, 02 Sep 2010 19:03:20 -0500, Ignoramus28169 wrote:

Things are getting weirder and weirder. My original post is at the
bottom.

I have received the replacement relay and capacitor today.

Installed them (it was a 2 minute job).

Plugged in the fridge.

The compressor happily started working normally, mildly vibrating and
indicating in all respects that it is running fine.

Happy after 2 minutes, I turned off the fridge, and reinstalled the rear
insulated covering panel and ground.

Plugged in again and I HEARD THE SAME OLD DREADED BUZZING SOUND. Now,
the compressor motor would not start again! It busses fomr several
seconds and the relay clicks and turns it off.

I am completely puzzled as to why exactly it turned on once, but would
not turn on again.

Any idea?

Call Sears repair.

On 9/2/2010 8:03 PM, Ignoramus28169 wrote:
Things are getting weirder and weirder. My original post is at the bottom.

I have received the replacement relay and capacitor today.

Installed them (it was a 2 minute job).

Plugged in the fridge.

The compressor happily started working normally, mildly vibrating and
indicating in all respects that it is running fine.

Happy after 2 minutes, I turned off the fridge, and reinstalled the
rear insulated covering panel and ground.

Plugged in again and I HEARD THE SAME OLD DREADED BUZZING SOUND. Now,
the compressor motor would not start again! It busses fomr several
seconds and the relay clicks and turns it off.

I am completely puzzled as to why exactly it turned on once, but would
not turn on again.

Any idea?

i

Hi, Good to hear the overload relay worked for you, (I read your later
post where everything seems to be working ok)

As I didn't trust the freezer after my repair I purchased one of these

http://cgi.ebay.com/TA20-CDN-Freezer...em45eff9 94be

Its pretty neat and although I never had a problem afterwards, its good
to see the freezer temps.

JC

On Thu, 02 Sep 2010 19:03:20 -0500, Ignoramus28169
wrote:

Things are getting weirder and weirder. My original post is at the bottom.

I have received the replacement relay and capacitor today.

Installed them (it was a 2 minute job).

Plugged in the fridge.

The compressor happily started working normally, mildly vibrating and
indicating in all respects that it is running fine.

Happy after 2 minutes, I turned off the fridge, and reinstalled the
rear insulated covering panel and ground.

Plugged in again and I HEARD THE SAME OLD DREADED BUZZING SOUND. Now,
the compressor motor would not start again! It busses fomr several
seconds and the relay clicks and turns it off.

I am completely puzzled as to why exactly it turned on once, but would
not turn on again.

Any idea?

i

hell, my fridge has done that for years... (Really, it has).

The reason is 'high head pressure' and you have to let it sit for as
much as 20 to 30 minutes (typically, but can be longer) between
startup cycles.

On Thu, 02 Sep 2010 20:12:37 -0500, Ignoramus28169
wrote:

On 2010-09-03, Ignoramus28169 wrote:
Things are getting weirder and weirder. My original post is at the bottom.

I have received the replacement relay and capacitor today.

Installed them (it was a 2 minute job).

Plugged in the fridge.

The compressor happily started working normally, mildly vibrating and
indicating in all respects that it is running fine.

Happy after 2 minutes, I turned off the fridge, and reinstalled the
rear insulated covering panel and ground.

Plugged in again and I HEARD THE SAME OLD DREADED BUZZING SOUND. Now,
the compressor motor would not start again! It busses fomr several
seconds and the relay clicks and turns it off.

I am completely puzzled as to why exactly it turned on once, but would
not turn on again.

Any idea?

Oddly enough, after waiting for a while, it started fine and is
cooling down at an acceptable rate.

i


Not odd, high head pressure was doing it. Considered normal in most
applications.

On Fri, 03 Sep 2010 08:45:03 -0400, PeterD wrote:

On Thu, 02 Sep 2010 19:03:20 -0500, Ignoramus28169
wrote:

Things are getting weirder and weirder. My original post is at the
bottom.

I have received the replacement relay and capacitor today.

Installed them (it was a 2 minute job).

Plugged in the fridge.

The compressor happily started working normally, mildly vibrating and
indicating in all respects that it is running fine.

Happy after 2 minutes, I turned off the fridge, and reinstalled the rear
insulated covering panel and ground.

Plugged in again and I HEARD THE SAME OLD DREADED BUZZING SOUND. Now,
the compressor motor would not start again! It busses fomr several
seconds and the relay clicks and turns it off.

I am completely puzzled as to why exactly it turned on once, but would
not turn on again.

Any idea?

i

hell, my fridge has done that for years... (Really, it has).

The reason is 'high head pressure' and you have to let it sit for as
much as 20 to 30 minutes (typically, but can be longer) between startup
cycles.

Shouldn't take 20 minutes for the head pressure to bleed off enough for a
restart. Unless of course there is a partial restriction in the high
side. If the system has moisture in the freon the end of the cap tube can
ice up causing a restriction. Or some contaminates could plug the cap
tube partially. Normally the head pressure should reduce sufficiently to
allow a proper working compressor to restart in 5 minutes or less.

On Sep 2, 8:30Â*pm, aemeijers wrote:
On 9/2/2010 8:03 PM, Ignoramus28169 wrote:



Things are getting weirder and weirder. My original post is at the bottom.

I have received the replacement relay and capacitor today.

Installed them (it was a 2 minute job).

Plugged in the fridge.

The compressor happily started working normally, mildly vibrating and
indicating in all respects that it is running fine.

Happy after 2 minutes, I turned off the fridge, and reinstalled the
rear insulated covering panel and ground.

Plugged in again and I HEARD THE SAME OLD DREADED BUZZING SOUND. Now,
the compressor motor would not start again! It busses fomr several
seconds and the relay clicks and turns it off.

I am completely puzzled as to why exactly it turned on once, but would
not turn on again.

Any idea?

Take the cover back off and see if anything changes? Mebbe fridge got
shoved into the wall, and the cover got bent, and is making something
not work?

I'm no fridge expert, but when something stops working when you put the
lid on, that tells me the lid is somehow binding something up or
shorting something out.

--
aem sends...

"when something stops working when you put the lid on, that tells
me the lid is somehow binding something up or shorting something out."

In a much earlier life, I used to install and repair Radio Shack
TRS-80 workstations. My company also used the Storage Expansion Unit
which could house up to three additional 8€³ drives as shown he

http://www.trs-80.com/wordpress/trs-...line/model-ii/

These expansion bays were notorious for not working once you put the
cover back on. You'd repair the unit or add a drive, test all three
drives with the cover off and then install the cover and the 84,000
screws that kept it on. Invariably, one of the drives (it would be
random as to which one) would no longer be accessible.

You had to loosen screws, tweak the cover, slap the box, whatever, to
get it working.

With hundreds of these workstations installed in everything from
offices to chemical processing areas, you can be sure that we did a
lot of bench work trying to determine what the problem was in an
effort to make our on-site work easier. We never figured it out and
were thrilled when they started replacing them with the original IBM
PC.

On Sep 3, 7:06Â*am, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Sep 2, 8:30Â*pm, aemeijers wrote:



On 9/2/2010 8:03 PM, Ignoramus28169 wrote:

Things are getting weirder and weirder. My original post is at the bottom.

I have received the replacement relay and capacitor today.

Installed them (it was a 2 minute job).

Plugged in the fridge.

The compressor happily started working normally, mildly vibrating and
indicating in all respects that it is running fine.

Happy after 2 minutes, I turned off the fridge, and reinstalled the
rear insulated covering panel and ground.

Plugged in again and I HEARD THE SAME OLD DREADED BUZZING SOUND. Now,
the compressor motor would not start again! It busses fomr several
seconds and the relay clicks and turns it off.

I am completely puzzled as to why exactly it turned on once, but would
not turn on again.

Any idea?

Take the cover back off and see if anything changes? Mebbe fridge got
shoved into the wall, and the cover got bent, and is making something
not work?

I'm no fridge expert, but when something stops working when you put the
lid on, that tells me the lid is somehow binding something up or
shorting something out.

--
aem sends...

"when something stops working when you put the lid on, that tells
me the lid is somehow binding something up or shorting something out."

In a much earlier life, I used to install and repair Radio Shack
TRS-80 workstations. My company also used the Storage Expansion Unit
which could house up to three additional 8€³ drives as shown he

http://www.trs-80.com/wordpress/trs-...line/model-ii/

These expansion bays were notorious for not working once you put the
cover back on. You'd repair the unit or add a drive, test all three
drives with the cover off and then install the cover and the 84,000
screws that kept it on. Invariably, one of the drives (it would be
random as to which one) would no longer be accessible.

You had to loosen screws, tweak the cover, slap the box, whatever, to
get it working.

With hundreds of these workstations installed in everything from
offices to chemical processing areas, you can be sure that we did a
lot of bench work trying to determine what the problem was in an
effort to make our on-site work easier. We never figured it out and
were thrilled when they started replacing them with the original IBM
PC.

Many of these kinds of things end up being cracked connector solder or
chips that fail when heated. BTDT

DerbyDad03 wrote:

"when something stops working when you put the lid on, that tells
me the lid is somehow binding something up or shorting something out."

In a much earlier life, I used to install and repair Radio Shack
TRS-80 workstations. My company also used the Storage Expansion Unit
which could house up to three additional 8€³ drives as shown he

http://www.trs-80.com/wordpress/trs-...line/model-ii/

These expansion bays were notorious for not working once you put the
cover back on. You'd repair the unit or add a drive, test all three
drives with the cover off and then install the cover and the 84,000
screws that kept it on. Invariably, one of the drives (it would be
random as to which one) would no longer be accessible.

You had to loosen screws, tweak the cover, slap the box, whatever, to
get it working.

With hundreds of these workstations installed in everything from
offices to chemical processing areas, you can be sure that we did a
lot of bench work trying to determine what the problem was in an
effort to make our on-site work easier. We never figured it out and
were thrilled when they started replacing them with the original IBM
PC.



They cut one corner too many by tin plating the edge connectors, then
plugging them into connectors with gold plated contacts. At one time
there was a special connector sold that you soldered to the tin plate,
and had gold plated contacts to mate with the ribbon cables.

--
Politicians should only get paid if the budget is balanced, and there is
enough left over to pay them.

On Sep 3, 11:33Â*am, Bob Villa wrote:
On Sep 3, 7:06Â*am, DerbyDad03 wrote:



On Sep 2, 8:30Â*pm, aemeijers wrote:

On 9/2/2010 8:03 PM, Ignoramus28169 wrote:

Things are getting weirder and weirder. My original post is at the bottom.

I have received the replacement relay and capacitor today.

Installed them (it was a 2 minute job).

Plugged in the fridge.

The compressor happily started working normally, mildly vibrating and
indicating in all respects that it is running fine.

Happy after 2 minutes, I turned off the fridge, and reinstalled the
rear insulated covering panel and ground.

Plugged in again and I HEARD THE SAME OLD DREADED BUZZING SOUND. Now,
the compressor motor would not start again! It busses fomr several
seconds and the relay clicks and turns it off.

I am completely puzzled as to why exactly it turned on once, but would
not turn on again.

Any idea?

Take the cover back off and see if anything changes? Mebbe fridge got
shoved into the wall, and the cover got bent, and is making something
not work?

I'm no fridge expert, but when something stops working when you put the
lid on, that tells me the lid is somehow binding something up or
shorting something out.

--
aem sends...

"when something stops working when you put the lid on, that tells
me the lid is somehow binding something up or shorting something out."

In a much earlier life, I used to install and repair Radio Shack
TRS-80 workstations. My company also used the Storage Expansion Unit
which could house up to three additional 8€³ drives as shown he

http://www.trs-80.com/wordpress/trs-...line/model-ii/

These expansion bays were notorious for not working once you put the
cover back on. You'd repair the unit or add a drive, test all three
drives with the cover off and then install the cover and the 84,000
screws that kept it on. Invariably, one of the drives (it would be
random as to which one) would no longer be accessible.

You had to loosen screws, tweak the cover, slap the box, whatever, to
get it working.

With hundreds of these workstations installed in everything from
offices to chemical processing areas, you can be sure that we did a
lot of bench work trying to determine what the problem was in an
effort to make our on-site work easier. We never figured it out and
were thrilled when they started replacing them with the original IBM
PC.

Many of these kinds of things end up being cracked connector solder or
chips that fail when heated. BTDT

"chips that fail when heated"

We know it wasn't heat since the problem occurred immediately after
securing the cover and could be fixed by tweaking the case.

cracked connector solder

Maybe, if it was a manufacturing defect since it happened on so many,
many units.

On Sep 3, 11:55Â*am, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:

"when something stops working when you put the lid on, that tells
me the lid is somehow binding something up or shorting something out."

In a much earlier life, I used to install and repair Radio Shack
TRS-80 workstations. My company also used the Storage Expansion Unit
which could house up to three additional 8€³ drives as shown he

http://www.trs-80.com/wordpress/trs-...line/model-ii/

These expansion bays were notorious for not working once you put the
cover back on. You'd repair the unit or add a drive, test all three
drives with the cover off and then install the cover and the 84,000
screws that kept it on. Invariably, one of the drives (it would be
random as to which one) would no longer be accessible.

You had to loosen screws, tweak the cover, slap the box, whatever, to
get it working.

With hundreds of these workstations installed in everything from
offices to chemical processing areas, you can be sure that we did a
lot of bench work trying to determine what the problem was in an
effort to make our on-site work easier. We never figured it out and
were thrilled when they started replacing them with the original IBM
PC.

Â* Â*They cut one corner too many by tin plating the edge connectors, then
plugging them into connectors with gold plated contacts. Â*At one time
there was a special connector sold that you soldered to the tin plate,
and had gold plated contacts to mate with the ribbon cables.

--
Politicians should only get paid if the budget is balanced, and there is
enough left over to pay them.

"At one time there was a special connector sold that you soldered
to the tin plate, and had gold plated contacts to mate with the ribbon
cables."

Trust me, I know all about the many corners they cut! ;-)

However, how would this particular connector issue be impacted by the
installation of the case? The case had no connectors, it was just a
metal shell.

P.S. Before installing the TRS-80's, we opened up every keyboard and
ran a wire from the circuit board ground to the plastic case. Before
we did that, weird things would happen when the user touched the
keyboard.

The worst was seeing the disk drive light turn on and knowing that the
program and/or data disk was now corrupt. The least was hearing the
daisy wheel printer print out a single character.

We had some users that were so paranoid about their data that they
wired a grounding bracelet to the sprinkler system and would hook
themselves up before they touched the system.

On 9/3/2010 12:46 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Sep 3, 11:55 am, "Michael A.
wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:

"when something stops working when you put the lid on, that tells
me the lid is somehow binding something up or shorting something out."

In a much earlier life, I used to install and repair Radio Shack
TRS-80 workstations. My company also used the Storage Expansion Unit
which could house up to three additional 8€³ drives as shown he

http://www.trs-80.com/wordpress/trs-...line/model-ii/

These expansion bays were notorious for not working once you put the
cover back on. You'd repair the unit or add a drive, test all three
drives with the cover off and then install the cover and the 84,000
screws that kept it on. Invariably, one of the drives (it would be
random as to which one) would no longer be accessible.

You had to loosen screws, tweak the cover, slap the box, whatever, to
get it working.

With hundreds of these workstations installed in everything from
offices to chemical processing areas, you can be sure that we did a
lot of bench work trying to determine what the problem was in an
effort to make our on-site work easier. We never figured it out and
were thrilled when they started replacing them with the original IBM
PC.

They cut one corner too many by tin plating the edge connectors, then
plugging them into connectors with gold plated contacts. At one time
there was a special connector sold that you soldered to the tin plate,
and had gold plated contacts to mate with the ribbon cables.

--
Politicians should only get paid if the budget is balanced, and there is
enough left over to pay them.

"At one time there was a special connector sold that you soldered
to the tin plate, and had gold plated contacts to mate with the ribbon
cables."

Trust me, I know all about the many corners they cut! ;-)

However, how would this particular connector issue be impacted by the
installation of the case? The case had no connectors, it was just a
metal shell.

Just a guess but tightening the crews could distort the case enough to
put stress on the drives, altering their alignment thus they (especially
with the old stepper-motor drives) no longer have proper track
alignment. Solution would be to leave the drive mounting screws on one
side a little loose so they support the drive but don't put any load on
it--a little Loctite would keep them from working loose in service.

P.S. Before installing the TRS-80's, we opened up every keyboard and
ran a wire from the circuit board ground to the plastic case. Before
we did that, weird things would happen when the user touched the
keyboard.

The worst was seeing the disk drive light turn on and knowing that the
program and/or data disk was now corrupt. The least was hearing the
daisy wheel printer print out a single character.

We had some users that were so paranoid about their data that they
wired a grounding bracelet to the sprinkler system and would hook
themselves up before they touched the system.

DerbyDad03 wrote:

"when something stops working when you put the lid on, that tells
me the lid is somehow binding something up or shorting something out."

In a much earlier life, I used to install and repair Radio Shack
TRS-80 workstations. My company also used the Storage Expansion Unit
which could house up to three additional 8? drives as shown he

http://www.trs-80.com/wordpress/trs-...line/model-ii/

These expansion bays were notorious for not working once you put the
cover back on. You'd repair the unit or add a drive, test all three
drives with the cover off and then install the cover and the 84,000
screws that kept it on. Invariably, one of the drives (it would be
random as to which one) would no longer be accessible.

You had to loosen screws, tweak the cover, slap the box, whatever, to
get it working.

With hundreds of these workstations installed in everything from
offices to chemical processing areas, you can be sure that we did a
lot of bench work trying to determine what the problem was in an
effort to make our on-site work easier. We never figured it out and
were thrilled when they started replacing them with the original IBM
PC.

The problem hasn't gone away.

We've been farkin' with a CD duplicator for a month. It would randomly fail
to eject a CD. Replacement of the CD drive with a new one didn't help. We
finally got it to work flawlessly but when we tightened the screws holding
the drive in place, back to the same symptom.

Turns out, tightening the screws distorted the drive (made of old beer-can
metal).

Loosening the screws somewhat returned the duplicator to perfect
functioning.

On Sep 3, 11:37*am, "HeyBub" wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:

"when something stops working when you put the lid on, that tells
me the lid is somehow binding something up or shorting something out."

In a much earlier life, I used to install and repair Radio Shack
TRS-80 workstations. My company also used the Storage Expansion Unit
which could house up to three additional 8? drives as shown he

http://www.trs-80.com/wordpress/trs-...line/model-ii/

These expansion bays were notorious for not working once you put the
cover back on. You'd repair the unit or add a drive, test all three
drives with the cover off and then install the cover and the 84,000
screws that kept it on. Invariably, one of the drives (it would be
random as to which one) would no longer be accessible.

You had to loosen screws, tweak the cover, slap the box, whatever, to
get it working.

With hundreds of these workstations installed in everything from
offices to chemical processing areas, you can be sure that we did a
lot of bench work trying to determine what the problem was in an
effort to make our on-site work easier. We never figured it out and
were thrilled when they started replacing them with the original IBM
PC.

The problem hasn't gone away.

We've been farkin' with a CD duplicator for a month. It would randomly fail
to eject a CD. Replacement of the CD drive with a new one didn't help. We
finally got it to work flawlessly but when we tightened the screws holding
the drive in place, back to the same symptom.

Turns out, tightening the screws distorted the drive (made of old beer-can
metal).

Loosening the screws somewhat returned the duplicator to perfect
functioning.

Or the screw went too deep and needed a washer (or a shorter screw).
May have bound a pivot point or track/rail.

On Sep 3, 1:36Â*pm, "J. Clarke" wrote:
On 9/3/2010 12:46 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:



On Sep 3, 11:55 am, "Michael A.
wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:

"when something stops working when you put the lid on, that tells
me the lid is somehow binding something up or shorting something out."

In a much earlier life, I used to install and repair Radio Shack
TRS-80 workstations. My company also used the Storage Expansion Unit
which could house up to three additional 8€³ drives as shown he

http://www.trs-80.com/wordpress/trs-...line/model-ii/

These expansion bays were notorious for not working once you put the
cover back on. You'd repair the unit or add a drive, test all three
drives with the cover off and then install the cover and the 84,000
screws that kept it on. Invariably, one of the drives (it would be
random as to which one) would no longer be accessible.

You had to loosen screws, tweak the cover, slap the box, whatever, to
get it working.

With hundreds of these workstations installed in everything from
offices to chemical processing areas, you can be sure that we did a
lot of bench work trying to determine what the problem was in an
effort to make our on-site work easier. We never figured it out and
were thrilled when they started replacing them with the original IBM
PC.

Â* Â* They cut one corner too many by tin plating the edge connectors, then
plugging them into connectors with gold plated contacts. Â*At one time
there was a special connector sold that you soldered to the tin plate,
and had gold plated contacts to mate with the ribbon cables.

--
Politicians should only get paid if the budget is balanced, and there is
enough left over to pay them.

"At one time there was a special connector sold that you soldered
to the tin plate, and had gold plated contacts to mate with the ribbon
cables."

Trust me, I know all about the many corners they cut! ;-)

However, how would this particular connector issue be impacted by the
installation of the case? The case had no connectors, it was just a
metal shell.

Just a guess but tightening the crews could distort the case enough to
put stress on the drives, altering their alignment thus they (especially
with the old stepper-motor drives) no longer have proper track
alignment. Â*Solution would be to leave the drive mounting screws on one
side a little loose so they support the drive but don't put any load on
it--a little Loctite would keep them from working loose in service.

P.S. Before installing the TRS-80's, we opened up every keyboard and
ran a wire from the circuit board ground to the plastic case. Before
we did that, weird things would happen when the user touched the
keyboard.

The worst was seeing the disk drive light turn on and knowing that the
program and/or data disk was now corrupt. The least was hearing the
daisy wheel printer print out a single character.

We had some users that were so paranoid about their data that they
wired a grounding bracelet to the sprinkler system and would hook
themselves up before they touched the system.

Many times we just left half the screws out altogether!

DerbyDad03 wrote:

On Sep 3, 11:55Â am, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:

"when something stops working when you put the lid on, that tells
me the lid is somehow binding something up or shorting something out."

In a much earlier life, I used to install and repair Radio Shack
TRS-80 workstations. My company also used the Storage Expansion Unit
which could house up to three additional 8€³ drives as shown he

http://www.trs-80.com/wordpress/trs-...line/model-ii/

These expansion bays were notorious for not working once you put the
cover back on. You'd repair the unit or add a drive, test all three
drives with the cover off and then install the cover and the 84,000
screws that kept it on. Invariably, one of the drives (it would be
random as to which one) would no longer be accessible.

You had to loosen screws, tweak the cover, slap the box, whatever, to
get it working.

With hundreds of these workstations installed in everything from
offices to chemical processing areas, you can be sure that we did a
lot of bench work trying to determine what the problem was in an
effort to make our on-site work easier. We never figured it out and
were thrilled when they started replacing them with the original IBM
PC.

  They cut one corner too many by tin plating the edge connectors, then
plugging them into connectors with gold plated contacts. Â At one time
there was a special connector sold that you soldered to the tin plate,
and had gold plated contacts to mate with the ribbon cables.

--
Politicians should only get paid if the budget is balanced, and there is
enough left over to pay them.

"At one time there was a special connector sold that you soldered
to the tin plate, and had gold plated contacts to mate with the ribbon
cables."

Trust me, I know all about the many corners they cut! ;-)

However, how would this particular connector issue be impacted by the
installation of the case? The case had no connectors, it was just a
metal shell.


Some cases put pressure on one side of the ribbon connector. The
modification extended it outside of the case. I repaired a lot of early
computers, too.


P.S. Before installing the TRS-80's, we opened up every keyboard and
ran a wire from the circuit board ground to the plastic case. Before
we did that, weird things would happen when the user touched the
keyboard.

The worst was seeing the disk drive light turn on and knowing that the
program and/or data disk was now corrupt. The least was hearing the
daisy wheel printer print out a single character.

We had some users that were so paranoid about their data that they
wired a grounding bracelet to the sprinkler system and would hook
themselves up before they touched the system.


--
Politicians should only get paid if the budget is balanced, and there is
enough left over to pay them.

On 9/3/2010 9:06 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Sep 2, 8:30 pm, wrote:
On 9/2/2010 8:03 PM, Ignoramus28169 wrote:



Things are getting weirder and weirder. My original post is at the bottom.

I have received the replacement relay and capacitor today.

Installed them (it was a 2 minute job).

Plugged in the fridge.

The compressor happily started working normally, mildly vibrating and
indicating in all respects that it is running fine.

Happy after 2 minutes, I turned off the fridge, and reinstalled the
rear insulated covering panel and ground.

Plugged in again and I HEARD THE SAME OLD DREADED BUZZING SOUND. Now,
the compressor motor would not start again! It busses fomr several
seconds and the relay clicks and turns it off.

I am completely puzzled as to why exactly it turned on once, but would
not turn on again.

Any idea?

Take the cover back off and see if anything changes? Mebbe fridge got
shoved into the wall, and the cover got bent, and is making something
not work?

I'm no fridge expert, but when something stops working when you put the
lid on, that tells me the lid is somehow binding something up or
shorting something out.

--
aem sends...

"when something stops working when you put the lid on, that tells
me the lid is somehow binding something up or shorting something out."

In a much earlier life, I used to install and repair Radio Shack
TRS-80 workstations. My company also used the Storage Expansion Unit
which could house up to three additional 8€³ drives as shown he

http://www.trs-80.com/wordpress/trs-...line/model-ii/

These expansion bays were notorious for not working once you put the
cover back on. You'd repair the unit or add a drive, test all three
drives with the cover off and then install the cover and the 84,000
screws that kept it on. Invariably, one of the drives (it would be
random as to which one) would no longer be accessible.

You had to loosen screws, tweak the cover, slap the box, whatever, to
get it working.

With hundreds of these workstations installed in everything from
offices to chemical processing areas, you can be sure that we did a
lot of bench work trying to determine what the problem was in an
effort to make our on-site work easier. We never figured it out and
were thrilled when they started replacing them with the original IBM
PC.


Back in the late 70's I worked for Tandy repair and most of the trouble
with their equipment was caused by cold solder joints. The connections
made with plated through holes on the circuit board were always suspect.

TDD

Vapor lock. Likely a little light on freon and the pump shutting off
gets a high head pressure and can't push up to clear it.

Likely in the off position, it will leak pass a gasket and it will start.

That is my suspect. Might be that way only when hot. e.g. just running.

Might work in the shop all winter if cold out there - lightly running and
cold coils. Warm house shuts it down.

That is what I figure.

Martin

Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
"Our Republic and the Press will Rise or Fall Together": Joseph Pulitzer
TSRA: Endowed; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal.
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Originator & Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member. http://lufkinced.com/

On 9/2/2010 7:03 PM, Ignoramus28169 wrote:
Things are getting weirder and weirder. My original post is at the bottom.

I have received the replacement relay and capacitor today.

Installed them (it was a 2 minute job).

Plugged in the fridge.

The compressor happily started working normally, mildly vibrating and
indicating in all respects that it is running fine.

Happy after 2 minutes, I turned off the fridge, and reinstalled the
rear insulated covering panel and ground.

Plugged in again and I HEARD THE SAME OLD DREADED BUZZING SOUND. Now,
the compressor motor would not start again! It busses fomr several
seconds and the relay clicks and turns it off.

I am completely puzzled as to why exactly it turned on once, but would
not turn on again.

Any idea?

i


On 2010-08-31, wrote:
I have an electronic Kenmore refrigerator 596.50013100. I bought it
from a private party over a year ago and it has been working great
until now. It seems very well made, overall.

Yesterday it started beeping and displaying a strange trouble signal:

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/Kenmore-Trouble.jpg

It is right above the word "Kenmore", is red and looks like a crossed
lock and an exclamation.

The temperature in the unit has been rising since then and clearly, it
is not cooling anything. Right now both freezer and fridge are at 46
degrees F.

I tried calling Kenmore, but could only speak to dummies who are
forbidden to give any diagnostics.

My question is WTF does this sign mean? It is meant to tell me
something.

Thanks

i