The prior message made want to ask the question. I get the program on
HGTV, but it might be on other channels as well. I think it is a great
program with not only shocking examples of work being done, but some
interesting techniques and material for accomplishing tasks. Check it out.

On Aug 26, 10:38*am, Ken wrote:
* * * * The prior message made want to ask the question. *I get the program on
HGTV, but it might be on other channels as well. *I think it is a great
program with not only shocking examples of work being done, but some
interesting techniques and material for accomplishing tasks. *Check it out.

The guy's heart is in the right place, but he's no Tommy Silva. His
construction experience on display has some deficiencies. Makes good
watching, though.

R

Ken wrote:
The prior message made want to ask the question. I get the program on
HGTV, but it might be on other channels as well. I think it is a great
program with not only shocking examples of work being done, but some
interesting techniques and material for accomplishing tasks. Check it out.

They got some real shoddy contractors in Canada it seems.

--
LSMFT

I look outside this morning and everything was in 3D!

On Aug 26, 10:38*am, Ken wrote:
* * * * The prior message made want to ask the question. *I get the program on
HGTV, but it might be on other channels as well. *I think it is a great
program with not only shocking examples of work being done, but some
interesting techniques and material for accomplishing tasks. *Check it out.

SWMBO loves it, so I DVR it and we watch it together sometimes.

My pet peeve - which is the same with many other DIY shows - is how
they repeat much of what you've already seen when they come back from
a commercial.

Do they think we're idiots and can't remember why they're fixing the
house? H on H isn't as bad as some of the other shows, but the re-
caps are still unnecessary.

Who pays for the high-end upgrades? They take a couple who just got
ripped off for $50K on a bathroom remodel and build them a custom bath
that is far above what they were going for in the first place. Do the
sponsors cover the full cost?

"Take it down...take it all down."

In article
,
DerbyDad03 wrote:

My pet peeve - which is the same with many other DIY shows - is how
they repeat much of what you've already seen when they come back from
a commercial.

It's not just DIY shows. A lot of Discovery, Learning, and History
channel shows are like that. It's a way of stretching 10 minutes of
information into an hour show.

Smitty Two wrote:
In article
,
DerbyDad03 wrote:

My pet peeve - which is the same with many other DIY shows - is how
they repeat much of what you've already seen when they come back from
a commercial.

It's not just DIY shows. A lot of Discovery, Learning, and History
channel shows are like that. It's a way of stretching 10 minutes of
information into an hour show.

they also need to hook in channels surfers who may be scanning around during
commercials.

On Aug 26, 1:46*pm, "chaniarts" wrote:
Smitty Two wrote:
In article
,
DerbyDad03 wrote:

My pet peeve - which is the same with many other DIY shows - is how
they repeat much of what you've already seen when they come back from
a commercial.

It's not just DIY shows. A lot of Discovery, Learning, and History
channel shows are like that. It's a way of stretching 10 minutes of
information into an hour show.

they also need to hook in channels surfers who may be scanning around during
commercials.

That only works if a surfer hits their station just as their
commercial ends so that they catch the re-cap. If I'm surfing during a
commercial, I don't stay on another channel that is running a
commercial and wait for it to end. If I wanted to watch a commercial,
I'd have stayed on the channel I was originally watching.

What are the odds that a surfer is actually going to catch the re-cap
just as it is beginning?

"Smitty Two" wrote in message
news
In article
,
DerbyDad03 wrote:

My pet peeve - which is the same with many other DIY shows - is how
they repeat much of what you've already seen when they come back from
a commercial.

It's not just DIY shows. A lot of Discovery, Learning, and History
channel shows are like that. It's a way of stretching 10 minutes of
information into an hour show.

Yup, and if you watch enough History Channel you'll see the same photos and
film footage and animations used over and over, including when their use is
flat-out wrong. "When the German army invaded France in 1940...."--umm,
yeah, they apparently were equipped with Russki T-34 tanks, how surprising.

"RicodJour" wrote in message
...
On Aug 26, 10:38 am, Ken wrote:
The prior message made want to ask the question. I get the
program on
HGTV, but it might be on other channels as well. I think it is a great
program with not only shocking examples of work being done, but some
interesting techniques and material for accomplishing tasks. Check it
out.

The guy's heart is in the right place, but he's no Tommy Silva. His
construction experience on display has some deficiencies. Makes good
watching, though.

R

I'd like to see follow-up shows where they identify the contractor
responsible for the shoddy or fraudulent work and take him to court. Too
many such sleazeballs count on people not wanting to spend the money to go
after them, and since many folks don't research before hiring there is
always another sucker to be ripped off. Those clowns deserve some bad
publicity.

"chaniarts" wrote:

Smitty Two wrote:
In article
,
DerbyDad03 wrote:

My pet peeve - which is the same with many other DIY shows - is how
they repeat much of what you've already seen when they come back from
a commercial.

It's not just DIY shows. A lot of Discovery, Learning, and History
channel shows are like that. It's a way of stretching 10 minutes of
information into an hour show.

they also need to hook in channels surfers who may be scanning around during
commercials.

Add NatGeo to the list of offenders.

I think that probably *is* it-- But the cost, if they haven't figured
it out yet, is that folks like me won't ever come back to watch a 20
minute [1/2 hour] show stretched out over an hour. I *might* DVR
one and ff through the crap- but that doesn't help their sponsors
much.

Jim

On 8/26/2010 12:58 PM, DGDevin wrote:
"RicodJour" wrote in message
...
On Aug 26, 10:38 am, Ken wrote:
The prior message made want to ask the question. I get the program on
HGTV, but it might be on other channels as well. I think it is a great
program with not only shocking examples of work being done, but some
interesting techniques and material for accomplishing tasks. Check it
out.

The guy's heart is in the right place, but he's no Tommy Silva. His
construction experience on display has some deficiencies. Makes good
watching, though.

R

I'd like to see follow-up shows where they identify the contractor
responsible for the shoddy or fraudulent work and take him to court. Too
many such sleazeballs count on people not wanting to spend the money to
go after them, and since many folks don't research before hiring there
is always another sucker to be ripped off. Those clowns deserve some bad
publicity.

well i think the biggest mistake people make is giving ANY money up
front. There was a news article just a couple nights ago here in KC
about some dum ******* who paid a roofer multiple thousand up front.
When are people gonna learn? I pay NOTHING up front. (on the rare
occasion i can't do something myself)

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On Aug 26, 2:54*pm, Steve Barker wrote:
On 8/26/2010 12:58 PM, DGDevin wrote:
"RicodJour" wrote in message
On Aug 26, 10:38 am, Ken wrote:

The prior message made want to ask the question. I get the program on
HGTV, but it might be on other channels as well. I think it is a great
program with not only shocking examples of work being done, but some
interesting techniques and material for accomplishing tasks. Check it
out.

The guy's heart is in the right place, but he's no Tommy Silva. His
construction experience on display has some deficiencies. Makes good
watching, though.


I'd like to see follow-up shows where they identify the contractor
responsible for the shoddy or fraudulent work and take him to court. Too
many such sleazeballs count on people not wanting to spend the money to
go after them, and since many folks don't research before hiring there
is always another sucker to be ripped off. Those clowns deserve some bad
publicity.

That's an interesting idea. Very. Instead of flapping your
gums...errr, fingers...here, go sell the idea to a DIY network before
someone else does!

well i think the biggest mistake people make is giving ANY money up
front. There was a news article just a couple nights ago here in KC
about some dum ******* who paid a roofer multiple thousand up front.
When are people gonna learn? *I pay NOTHING up front. *(on the rare
occasion i can't do something myself)

Is it simply that you don't like to part with the money any sooner
than you have to?
Do you take it as a shady practice when a contractor asks for money up
front?
Or is it that you're worried that you'll lose leverage, or the
contractor may skip, if you pay some money up front?

R

On 8/26/2010 2:06 PM, RicodJour wrote:
On Aug 26, 2:54 pm, Steve wrote:
On 8/26/2010 12:58 PM, DGDevin wrote:
wrote in message
On Aug 26, 10:38 am, wrote:

The prior message made want to ask the question. I get the program on
HGTV, but it might be on other channels as well. I think it is a great
program with not only shocking examples of work being done, but some
interesting techniques and material for accomplishing tasks. Check it
out.

The guy's heart is in the right place, but he's no Tommy Silva. His
construction experience on display has some deficiencies. Makes good
watching, though.


I'd like to see follow-up shows where they identify the contractor
responsible for the shoddy or fraudulent work and take him to court. Too
many such sleazeballs count on people not wanting to spend the money to
go after them, and since many folks don't research before hiring there
is always another sucker to be ripped off. Those clowns deserve some bad
publicity.

That's an interesting idea. Very. Instead of flapping your
gums...errr, fingers...here, go sell the idea to a DIY network before
someone else does!

well i think the biggest mistake people make is giving ANY money up
front. There was a news article just a couple nights ago here in KC
about some dum ******* who paid a roofer multiple thousand up front.
When are people gonna learn? I pay NOTHING up front. (on the rare
occasion i can't do something myself)

Is it simply that you don't like to part with the money any sooner
than you have to?
Do you take it as a shady practice when a contractor asks for money up
front?
Or is it that you're worried that you'll lose leverage, or the
contractor may skip, if you pay some money up front?

R

It is my opinion that any reputable contractor shouldn't need my money
up front. I would hope he's liquid enough or has good enough credit to
get my materials out of the supplier(s) without having to pay for them
HIMSELF up front. I have a very reputable HVAC man i use, and even the
very first time we met, he didn't want but a third and that was only
after he had the equipment on my property. Since then, he's not asked
for a dime (seven more major jobs) until he was finished.

So yes, to answer your questions:

No i don't want to part with my money any sooner than necessary
Yes, i take it as shady if they ask for money up front
And yes, you lose ALL your leverage if you don't owe them money. And
yes, they skip all the time when paid. Fencers and roofers are the worst.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On Aug 26, 1:58*pm, "DGDevin" wrote:
"RicodJour" wrote in message

...

On Aug 26, 10:38 am, Ken wrote:
* * * * The prior message made want to ask the question. *I get the
program on
HGTV, but it might be on other channels as well. *I think it is a great
program with not only shocking examples of work being done, but some
interesting techniques and material for accomplishing tasks. *Check it
out.

The guy's heart is in the right place, but he's no Tommy Silva. *His
construction experience on display has some deficiencies. *Makes good
watching, though.

R

I'd like to see follow-up shows where they identify the contractor
responsible for the shoddy or fraudulent work and take him to court. *Too
many such sleazeballs count on people not wanting to spend the money to go
after them, and since many folks don't research before hiring there is
always another sucker to be ripped off. * Those clowns deserve some bad
publicity.

H on H did *one* show - the only one I ever saw them do it on - where
they went after the contractor.

They blurred out the name on the window of his office, but they had
the guy on camera, asking him when he was going to pay the cabinet
maker so that cabinets could be released to the home owners.

They also mentioned afterwards that the authorities had filed charges
because other people who had been ripped off by the same guy came
forward after the show was aired.

I think the hardest part is actually proving liability in a timely
manner. Some of these cases take years to prosecute and you have to
prove willful wrongdoing for it to be illegal. As far as I know,
shoddy workmanship is nothing more a civil matter. Many of the H on H
shows are just that: shoddy workmanship and jobs not finished - but
not necessarily paid for either.

The kitchen show I mentioned above involved taking the client's money
but not paying the subs or suppliers. At that point, I believe we
enter the realm of legal, not just civil, action.

I'm not a lawyer...not did I stay at a Holiday Inn last night.

On Aug 26, 1:58*pm, "DGDevin" wrote:
"RicodJour" wrote in message

...

On Aug 26, 10:38 am, Ken wrote:
* * * * The prior message made want to ask the question. *I get the
program on
HGTV, but it might be on other channels as well. *I think it is a great
program with not only shocking examples of work being done, but some
interesting techniques and material for accomplishing tasks. *Check it
out.

The guy's heart is in the right place, but he's no Tommy Silva. *His
construction experience on display has some deficiencies. *Makes good
watching, though.

R

I'd like to see follow-up shows where they identify the contractor
responsible for the shoddy or fraudulent work and take him to court. *Too
many such sleazeballs count on people not wanting to spend the money to go
after them, and since many folks don't research before hiring there is
always another sucker to be ripped off. * Those clowns deserve some bad
publicity.

My husband has a fantasy of a companion show called "Mike's Friends",
in which various members of the building trades show the shoddy
contractor
new and interesting ways to employ common tools such as pipe wrenches
and pneumatic nailers.

Cindy Hamilton

On Aug 26, 3:18*pm, Steve Barker wrote:
On 8/26/2010 2:06 PM, RicodJour wrote:





On Aug 26, 2:54 pm, Steve *wrote:
On 8/26/2010 12:58 PM, DGDevin wrote:
*wrote in message
On Aug 26, 10:38 am, *wrote:

The prior message made want to ask the question. I get the program on
HGTV, but it might be on other channels as well. I think it is a great
program with not only shocking examples of work being done, but some
interesting techniques and material for accomplishing tasks. Check it
out.

The guy's heart is in the right place, but he's no Tommy Silva. His
construction experience on display has some deficiencies. Makes good
watching, though.

I'd like to see follow-up shows where they identify the contractor
responsible for the shoddy or fraudulent work and take him to court. Too
many such sleazeballs count on people not wanting to spend the money to
go after them, and since many folks don't research before hiring there
is always another sucker to be ripped off. Those clowns deserve some bad
publicity.

That's an interesting idea. *Very. *Instead of flapping your
gums...errr, fingers...here, go sell the idea to a DIY network before
someone else does!

well i think the biggest mistake people make is giving ANY money up
front. There was a news article just a couple nights ago here in KC
about some dum ******* who paid a roofer multiple thousand up front.
When are people gonna learn? *I pay NOTHING up front. *(on the rare
occasion i can't do something myself)

Is it simply that you don't like to part with the money any sooner
than you have to?
Do you take it as a shady practice when a contractor asks for money up
front?
Or is it that you're worried that you'll lose leverage, or the
contractor may skip, if you pay some money up front?

R

It is my opinion that any reputable contractor shouldn't need my money
up front. *I would hope he's liquid enough or has good enough credit to
get my materials out of the supplier(s) without having to pay for them
HIMSELF up front. *I have a very reputable HVAC man i use, and even the
very first time we met, he didn't want but a third and that was only
after he had the equipment on my property. *Since then, he's not asked
for a dime (seven more major jobs) until he was finished.

So yes, to answer your questions:

No i don't want to part with my money any sooner than necessary
Yes, i take it as shady if they ask for money up front
And yes, you lose ALL your leverage if you don't owe them money. *And
yes, they skip all the time when paid. *Fencers and roofers are the worst.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

"... they skip all the time when paid. Fencers and roofers are the
worst"

Fences are one thing, but skipping off of a roof is just plain dumb.

On 8/26/2010 4:16 PM, RicodJour wrote:
On Aug 26, 3:18 pm, Steve wrote:
On 8/26/2010 2:06 PM, RicodJour wrote:



On Aug 26, 2:54 pm, Steve wrote:
On 8/26/2010 12:58 PM, DGDevin wrote:
wrote in message
On Aug 26, 10:38 am, wrote:

The prior message made want to ask the question. I get the program on
HGTV, but it might be on other channels as well. I think it is a great
program with not only shocking examples of work being done, but some
interesting techniques and material for accomplishing tasks. Check it
out.

The guy's heart is in the right place, but he's no Tommy Silva. His
construction experience on display has some deficiencies. Makes good
watching, though.

I'd like to see follow-up shows where they identify the contractor
responsible for the shoddy or fraudulent work and take him to court. Too
many such sleazeballs count on people not wanting to spend the money to
go after them, and since many folks don't research before hiring there
is always another sucker to be ripped off. Those clowns deserve some bad
publicity.

That's an interesting idea. Very. Instead of flapping your
gums...errr, fingers...here, go sell the idea to a DIY network before
someone else does!

well i think the biggest mistake people make is giving ANY money up
front. There was a news article just a couple nights ago here in KC
about some dum ******* who paid a roofer multiple thousand up front.
When are people gonna learn? I pay NOTHING up front. (on the rare
occasion i can't do something myself)

Is it simply that you don't like to part with the money any sooner
than you have to?
Do you take it as a shady practice when a contractor asks for money up
front?
Or is it that you're worried that you'll lose leverage, or the
contractor may skip, if you pay some money up front?

R

It is my opinion that any reputable contractor shouldn't need my money
up front. I would hope he's liquid enough or has good enough credit to
get my materials out of the supplier(s) without having to pay for them
HIMSELF up front. I have a very reputable HVAC man i use, and even the
very first time we met, he didn't want but a third and that was only
after he had the equipment on my property. Since then, he's not asked
for a dime (seven more major jobs) until he was finished.

So yes, to answer your questions:

No i don't want to part with my money any sooner than necessary
Yes, i take it as shady if they ask for money up front
And yes, you lose ALL your leverage if you don't owe them money. And
yes, they skip all the time when paid. Fencers and roofers are the worst.

Agreed with the first - sound financial practice.

Can't agree with the second. In fact, in some areas of the country,
like mine, you're not supposed to mix money from different projects.
They're supposed to be in separate accounts. You're not allowed to
spend money from one project "just to tide you over" on another
project. I'm sure you can see the logic behind that - to protect the
homeowner from a contractor throwing the homeowner's money down
another homeowner's hole and not getting their own project completed
when the contractor goes belly up.

As much as the first one is sound financial practice, the second is
poor financial practice for the contractor. Costs are incurred from
the moment work starts on the project. Any time spent on the project
after the contract is signed is an expenditure for the contractor.

The funny thing is that a contractor with good business practices -
ones like not skipping out on the job, not going bankrupt, keeping
their books in order, and not extending no-interest loans - are the
practices that would keep such a contractor from working for you. It
seems like you're shooting yourself in the foot, but the real story is
you don't hire people because you do most of the work yourself.
That's fine, but not everyone can do that, not everyone has the time
or inclination to do that, and you are making it sound like the
contractor - every contractor - is trying to get over on you. Which,
of course, is simply not the case.

Your comments about leverage are telling. Believe it or not, most
people in business for themselves don't need you to hold a big stick
to want to do a quick and clean job. Any type of threats, whether
boldly stated or implied, are counter-productive.

There are well-established customary practices in place for payment of
contractors, that vary from area to area, but in general, you want to
conform to what most people are used to and to what most people
believe is fair. Some guy from Manhattan, buying a house in Indiana,
and trying to get the guy remodeling his kitchen to go through the
lawyers and sign the 20 page contract (plus addenda) that the owner's
lawyer drafted up, is going to have a hard sell, even though that
might be standard in Manhattan.

R

I must admit, you only hear the horror stories. The good ones don't
make the news. And yes, the only thing i hire out is carpet laying,
HVAC, and roofs. (i hate being on steep ones, i'll do the 4/12's G)

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

I like the Holmes on Home, quite funny.


--
Airport Shuttle
Message origin: TRAVEL.com