I was in the electrical dept the other day having some wire cut. A
lady pushing a cart comes along to ask the guy, who from all
indications didn't know much, which wire is the right one to use to
hook up her new stove. In the cart are Romex and armored cable, both
14 gauge. She was most concerned about getting the right kind to use
in crawl space. She asked him if the armored was intended for use
outdoors, which he avoided. It was also clear that she had spoken to
him earlier before picking out her wire. After watching this for a
couple mins, I did my best to get the lady pointed in the right
direction, which was to tell her she most likely needs a 40 or 50 amp
circuit, heavier wire capable of that kind of load and to go back to
the appliance dept to find out what the stove installation manual
called for and to seek an electrician.

I find it curious how someone with no technical knowledge can go from
buying a stove to picking out 50ft of wire to hook it up.

Hooking up a stove with 14 gage wire? Hope she connects it to a 15
amp breaker.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


wrote in message
...
I was in the electrical dept the other day having some wire cut. A
lady pushing a cart comes along to ask the guy, who from all
indications didn't know much, which wire is the right one to use to
hook up her new stove. In the cart are Romex and armored cable, both
14 gauge. She was most concerned about getting the right kind to use
in crawl space. She asked him if the armored was intended for use
outdoors, which he avoided. It was also clear that she had spoken to
him earlier before picking out her wire. After watching this for a
couple mins, I did my best to get the lady pointed in the right
direction, which was to tell her she most likely needs a 40 or 50 amp
circuit, heavier wire capable of that kind of load and to go back to
the appliance dept to find out what the stove installation manual
called for and to seek an electrician.

I find it curious how someone with no technical knowledge can go from
buying a stove to picking out 50ft of wire to hook it up.

wrote in message
...
I was in the electrical dept the other day having some wire cut. A
lady pushing a cart comes along to ask the guy, who from all
indications didn't know much, which wire is the right one to use to
hook up her new stove. In the cart are Romex and armored cable, both
14 gauge. She was most concerned about getting the right kind to use
in crawl space. She asked him if the armored was intended for use
outdoors, which he avoided. It was also clear that she had spoken to
him earlier before picking out her wire. After watching this for a
couple mins, I did my best to get the lady pointed in the right
direction, which was to tell her she most likely needs a 40 or 50 amp
circuit, heavier wire capable of that kind of load and to go back to
the appliance dept to find out what the stove installation manual
called for and to seek an electrician.

I find it curious how someone with no technical knowledge can go from
buying a stove to picking out 50ft of wire to hook it up.



Somebody's got to keep the fire department busy or they'll get bored.

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 06:36:20 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
I was in the electrical dept the other day having some wire cut. A
lady pushing a cart comes along to ask the guy, who from all
indications didn't know much, which wire is the right one to use to
hook up her new stove. In the cart are Romex and armored cable, both
14 gauge. She was most concerned about getting the right kind to use
in crawl space. She asked him if the armored was intended for use
outdoors, which he avoided. It was also clear that she had spoken to
him earlier before picking out her wire. After watching this for a
couple mins, I did my best to get the lady pointed in the right
direction, which was to tell her she most likely needs a 40 or 50 amp
circuit, heavier wire capable of that kind of load and to go back to
the appliance dept to find out what the stove installation manual
called for and to seek an electrician.

I find it curious how someone with no technical knowledge can go from
buying a stove to picking out 50ft of wire to hook it up.

What is even scarier is that she probably had more electrical knowledge
than the store clerk in the electrical department.

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 09:48:21 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Hooking up a stove with 14 gage wire? Hope she connects it to a 15
amp breaker.
Be just fine if it is a GAS stove.

Nobody specified what kind of stove.

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 10:02:35 -0500, AZ Nomad
wrote:

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 06:36:20 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
I was in the electrical dept the other day having some wire cut. A
lady pushing a cart comes along to ask the guy, who from all
indications didn't know much, which wire is the right one to use to
hook up her new stove. In the cart are Romex and armored cable, both
14 gauge. She was most concerned about getting the right kind to use
in crawl space. She asked him if the armored was intended for use
outdoors, which he avoided. It was also clear that she had spoken to
him earlier before picking out her wire. After watching this for a
couple mins, I did my best to get the lady pointed in the right
direction, which was to tell her she most likely needs a 40 or 50 amp
circuit, heavier wire capable of that kind of load and to go back to
the appliance dept to find out what the stove installation manual
called for and to seek an electrician.

I find it curious how someone with no technical knowledge can go from
buying a stove to picking out 50ft of wire to hook it up.

What is even scarier is that she probably had more electrical knowledge
than the store clerk in the electrical department.
Not hard.
I went to buy some single pair 22 ga cable to hook up a phone
extension on the old Nortel digital PBX at the office - 27 phones
already connected and working using that wire, just needed to add #28
and the "expert" who had apparently worked for the phone company as
well as holding an electrician's licence, told me I needed cat5, or at
minimum cat3 cable - 4 twisted pair. I told him he was wrong - all of
the exixting phones were connected with single pair and had been
working for years.
He argued with me so I went elsewhere to buy my wire.

wrote the following:
On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 09:48:21 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:


Hooking up a stove with 14 gage wire? Hope she connects it to a 15
amp breaker.

Be just fine if it is a GAS stove.

Nobody specified what kind of stove.



Trader4 told her she would need the heavier circuit and cord, so he must
have known it was an electric stove.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 11:30:21 -0400, wrote:
On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 10:02:35 -0500, AZ Nomad
wrote:

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 06:36:20 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
I was in the electrical dept the other day having some wire cut. A
lady pushing a cart comes along to ask the guy, who from all
indications didn't know much, which wire is the right one to use to
hook up her new stove. In the cart are Romex and armored cable, both
14 gauge. She was most concerned about getting the right kind to use
in crawl space. She asked him if the armored was intended for use
outdoors, which he avoided. It was also clear that she had spoken to
him earlier before picking out her wire. After watching this for a
couple mins, I did my best to get the lady pointed in the right
direction, which was to tell her she most likely needs a 40 or 50 amp
circuit, heavier wire capable of that kind of load and to go back to
the appliance dept to find out what the stove installation manual
called for and to seek an electrician.

I find it curious how someone with no technical knowledge can go from
buying a stove to picking out 50ft of wire to hook it up.

What is even scarier is that she probably had more electrical knowledge
than the store clerk in the electrical department.
Not hard.
I went to buy some single pair 22 ga cable to hook up a phone
extension on the old Nortel digital PBX at the office - 27 phones
already connected and working using that wire, just needed to add #28
and the "expert" who had apparently worked for the phone company as
well as holding an electrician's licence, told me I needed cat5, or at
minimum cat3 cable - 4 twisted pair. I told him he was wrong - all of
the exixting phones were connected with single pair and had been
working for years.
He argued with me so I went elsewhere to buy my wire.

Insane. We're dealing with 19th century technology. used to be 4
wires, now only two are needed. Anything from 0000 to 30 guage wire
will work; pick wire that can survive the environment and you're done.

I wouldn't trust such a monkey to sell
flashlight batteries at radio shack.

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 11:42:08 -0500, AZ Nomad wrote:

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 11:30:21 -0400,
wrote:
On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 10:02:35 -0500, AZ Nomad
wrote:

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 06:36:20 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:
I was in the electrical dept the other day having some wire cut. A
lady pushing a cart comes along to ask the guy, who from all
indications didn't know much, which wire is the right one to use to
hook up her new stove. In the cart are Romex and armored cable, both
14 gauge. She was most concerned about getting the right kind to use
in crawl space. She asked him if the armored was intended for use
outdoors, which he avoided. It was also clear that she had spoken to
him earlier before picking out her wire. After watching this for a
couple mins, I did my best to get the lady pointed in the right
direction, which was to tell her she most likely needs a 40 or 50 amp
circuit, heavier wire capable of that kind of load and to go back to
the appliance dept to find out what the stove installation manual
called for and to seek an electrician.

I find it curious how someone with no technical knowledge can go from
buying a stove to picking out 50ft of wire to hook it up.

What is even scarier is that she probably had more electrical knowledge
than the store clerk in the electrical department.
Not hard.
I went to buy some single pair 22 ga cable to hook up a phone extension
on the old Nortel digital PBX at the office - 27 phones already
connected and working using that wire, just needed to add #28 and the
"expert" who had apparently worked for the phone company as well as
holding an electrician's licence, told me I needed cat5, or at minimum
cat3 cable - 4 twisted pair. I told him he was wrong - all of the
exixting phones were connected with single pair and had been working for
years.
He argued with me so I went elsewhere to buy my wire.

Insane. We're dealing with 19th century technology. used to be 4
wires, now only two are needed. Anything from 0000 to 30 guage wire
will work; pick wire that can survive the environment and you're done.

I wouldn't trust such a monkey to sell flashlight batteries at radio
shack.

PBX technology was 19th century?

On Aug 26, 9:36*am, wrote:
I was in the electrical dept the other day having some wire cut. *A
lady pushing a cart comes along to ask the guy, who from all
indications didn't know much, which wire is the right one to use to
hook up her new stove. *In the cart are Romex and armored cable, both
14 gauge. *She was most concerned about getting the right kind to use
in crawl space. *She asked him if the armored was intended for use
outdoors, which he avoided. *It was also clear that she had spoken to
him earlier before picking out her wire. * *After watching this for a
couple mins, I did my best to get the lady pointed in the right
direction, which was to tell her she most likely needs a 40 or 50 amp
circuit, heavier wire capable of that kind of load and to go back to
the appliance dept to find out what the stove installation manual
called for and to seek an electrician.

I find it curious how someone with no technical knowledge can go from
buying a stove to picking out 50ft of wire to hook it up.

"I find it curious how someone with no technical knowledge can go
from buying a stove to picking out 50ft of wire to hook it up."

Don't blame her.

There are basically three levels of knowledge:

1 - We know what we know.
2 - We know what we don't know.
3 - We don't know what we don't know.

She was at level 3: She didn't know what she didn't know.

In many instances I'm at Level 2. For example, I know that there are a
multitude of wire sizes and I know that there are different
specifications for different applications, but I also know that I
don't always know which spec fits which application. Level 2 is an OK
place to be, because as long you know that you don't know, you know
that you have some homework to do.

Level 3, however, is a dangerous place. When you don't know what you
don't know, you can easily assume that you *do* know.

In her case, she probably didn't even know that there was so many
things that she didn't know, so buying some wire probably seemed like
a simple task. Hopefully your advice moved her up to Level 2, making
her realize that she was in over her head.

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...


Level 3, however, is a dangerous place. When you don't know what you
don't know, you can easily assume that you *do* know.
===========

Rumsfeld syndrome!

On Aug 26, 10:24*am, wrote:
On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 09:48:21 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"

wrote:
Hooking up a stove with 14 gage wire? *Hope she connects it to a 15
amp breaker.

*Be just fine if it is a GAS stove.

Nobody specified what kind of stove.

What sort of fittings to you use on 14AWG to connect it to a gas
line? ;-)

On Aug 26, 2:46*pm, keith wrote:
On Aug 26, 10:24*am, wrote:

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 09:48:21 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"

wrote:
Hooking up a stove with 14 gage wire? *Hope she connects it to a 15
amp breaker.

*Be just fine if it is a GAS stove.

Nobody specified what kind of stove.

What sort of fittings to you use on 14AWG to connect it to a gas
line? *;-)

Sharkbites

On 8/26/2010 1:46 PM, keith wrote:
On Aug 26, 10:24 am, wrote:
On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 09:48:21 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"

wrote:
Hooking up a stove with 14 gage wire? Hope she connects it to a 15
amp breaker.

Be just fine if it is a GAS stove.

Nobody specified what kind of stove.

What sort of fittings to you use on 14AWG to connect it to a gas
line? ;-)

it's very similar to the connector you use to hook twisted pair to fiber.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

"DA" wrote in message
roups.com...
responding to
http://www.homeownershub.com/mainten...ot-461710-.htm
DA wrote:

wrote:

aggravation.


In any case, this may not be a good example of a Home Depot horror story
anyways because there actually are digital PBXes out there that do use two
pairs for extension cables (and some that use four) so the guy was just
not familiar with the particular one you had - happens all the time even
if he was still active in the field.

I think we ought to give HD employees some credit for trying to help.

Sometime you are better off not giving advice if you don't know the details
of the situation.


My favorite HD story happened when I had retired from my real job and was
filling my time as a peddler at the local RadioSchlock.
A women came in and wanted to get a line cord with a plug at each end. I
tried to explain that it was dangerous and most likely illegal.
And yes, we did not have such a thing. She said the guy at HD had assured
her that we had those items in stock.

He didn't try to dissuade her. At least he didn't sell her the parts and
explained how easy it was to make your own assembly.

Charlie

On Aug 26, 3:04*pm, "Charlie" wrote:
"DA" wrote in message

roups.com...





responding to
http://www.homeownershub.com/mainten...gs-you-see-a-H...
DA wrote:

wrote:

aggravation.

In any case, this may not be a good example of a Home Depot horror story
anyways because there actually are digital PBXes out there that do use two
pairs for extension cables (and some that use four) so the guy was just
not familiar with the particular one you had - happens all the time even
if he was still active in the field.

I think we ought to give HD employees some credit for trying to help.

Sometime you are better off not giving advice *if you don't know the details
of the situation.

My favorite HD story happened when I had retired from my real job and was
filling my time as a peddler at the local RadioSchlock.
*A women came in and wanted to get a line cord with a plug at each end. I
tried to explain that it was dangerous and most likely illegal.
And yes, we did not have such a thing. She said the guy at HD had assured
her that we had those items in stock.

He didn't try to dissuade her. At least he didn't sell her the parts and
explained how easy it was to make your own assembly.

Charlie- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I don't have anything with a plug on each end, but I do have one with
a plug on one end and 2 alligator clips on the other.

In the service we called them suicide - errr - test cords.

On 8/26/2010 10:30 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 10:02:35 -0500, AZ Nomad
wrote:

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 06:36:20 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
I was in the electrical dept the other day having some wire cut. A
lady pushing a cart comes along to ask the guy, who from all
indications didn't know much, which wire is the right one to use to
hook up her new stove. In the cart are Romex and armored cable, both
14 gauge. She was most concerned about getting the right kind to use
in crawl space. She asked him if the armored was intended for use
outdoors, which he avoided. It was also clear that she had spoken to
him earlier before picking out her wire. After watching this for a
couple mins, I did my best to get the lady pointed in the right
direction, which was to tell her she most likely needs a 40 or 50 amp
circuit, heavier wire capable of that kind of load and to go back to
the appliance dept to find out what the stove installation manual
called for and to seek an electrician.

I find it curious how someone with no technical knowledge can go from
buying a stove to picking out 50ft of wire to hook it up.

What is even scarier is that she probably had more electrical knowledge
than the store clerk in the electrical department.
Not hard.
I went to buy some single pair 22 ga cable to hook up a phone
extension on the old Nortel digital PBX at the office - 27 phones
already connected and working using that wire, just needed to add #28
and the "expert" who had apparently worked for the phone company as
well as holding an electrician's licence, told me I needed cat5, or at
minimum cat3 cable - 4 twisted pair. I told him he was wrong - all of
the exixting phones were connected with single pair and had been
working for years.
He argued with me so I went elsewhere to buy my wire.

You could use CAT3 2 pair. Even though the Nortel will work with a
single pair. It's advisable to use twisted pair because the Nortel
phone will get noisy if you don't use twisted pair. I've never seen
any single twisted pair phone wire except for the very old cloth
insulated stuff. I know this because I've installed and programed
a lot of Nortel systems. Nortel has merged with Avaya and a lot of
Nortel stuff will no longer be manufactured. What kind of wire did
you wind up using?

TDD

On 8/26/2010 1:10 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 11:42:08 -0500, AZ Nomad
wrote:

Insane. We're dealing with 19th century technology. used to be 4
wires, now only two are needed. Anything from 0000 to 30 guage wire
will work; pick wire that can survive the environment and you're done.

Phones have never needed more than a single pair unless you had
selective ringing on a party line. Then it was 3 wire. Four wire cable
came with the Princess phone to serve the light.

I used to install a lot of 25 and 50 pair telephones. 1A2 systems
are tough and you could hit someone over the head with one of those
monster phones and knock em out.

TDD

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 14:55:27 -0500, The Daring Dufas wrote:

On 8/26/2010 10:30 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 10:02:35 -0500, AZ Nomad
wrote:

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 06:36:20 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:
I was in the electrical dept the other day having some wire cut. A
lady pushing a cart comes along to ask the guy, who from all
indications didn't know much, which wire is the right one to use to
hook up her new stove. In the cart are Romex and armored cable, both
14 gauge. She was most concerned about getting the right kind to use
in crawl space. She asked him if the armored was intended for use
outdoors, which he avoided. It was also clear that she had spoken to
him earlier before picking out her wire. After watching this for a
couple mins, I did my best to get the lady pointed in the right
direction, which was to tell her she most likely needs a 40 or 50 amp
circuit, heavier wire capable of that kind of load and to go back to
the appliance dept to find out what the stove installation manual
called for and to seek an electrician.

I find it curious how someone with no technical knowledge can go from
buying a stove to picking out 50ft of wire to hook it up.

What is even scarier is that she probably had more electrical
knowledge than the store clerk in the electrical department.
Not hard.
I went to buy some single pair 22 ga cable to hook up a phone extension
on the old Nortel digital PBX at the office - 27 phones already
connected and working using that wire, just needed to add #28 and the
"expert" who had apparently worked for the phone company as well as
holding an electrician's licence, told me I needed cat5, or at minimum
cat3 cable - 4 twisted pair. I told him he was wrong - all of the
exixting phones were connected with single pair and had been working
for years.
He argued with me so I went elsewhere to buy my wire.

You could use CAT3 2 pair. Even though the Nortel will work with a
single pair. It's advisable to use twisted pair because the Nortel phone
will get noisy if you don't use twisted pair. I've never seen any single
twisted pair phone wire except for the very old cloth insulated stuff. I
know this because I've installed and programed a lot of Nortel systems.
Nortel has merged with Avaya and a lot of Nortel stuff will no longer be
manufactured. What kind of wire did you wind up using?

TDD

Doorbell wire is usually twisted? And you use twisted pair to keep the
proper impedance along the cable which prevents crosstalk. The same
reason Cat5e is able to do gigabit though you'd really want cat6.





--
Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...
On Aug 26, 3:04 pm, "Charlie" wrote:
"DA" wrote in message

I don't have anything with a plug on each end, but I do have one with
a plug on one end and 2 alligator clips on the other.

In the service we called them suicide - errr - test cords.

Darn. I thought I invented that. At least mine has rubber sleeves over the
clamps.

Recently, mine saved me a lot hassles while trying to explain that I knew it
had to be a switch or control board that was bad. Installed my new, under
warranty control board today and life is good. Would have taken 4 hours to
take the stupid microwave off the wall and to a service center, bring it
back and rehang. The complete repair took 10 minutes in home. About as hard
as installing a sound card.


--
Colbyt
Please come visit http://www.househomerepair.com

On Aug 26, 4:03*pm, Meat Plow wrote:
On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 14:55:27 -0500, The Daring Dufas wrote:
On 8/26/2010 10:30 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 10:02:35 -0500, AZ Nomad
*wrote:

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 06:36:20 -0700 (PDT),
*wrote:
I was in the electrical dept the other day having some wire cut. *A
lady pushing a cart comes along to ask the guy, who from all
indications didn't know much, which wire is the right one to use to
hook up her new stove. *In the cart are Romex and armored cable, both
14 gauge. *She was most concerned about getting the right kind to use
in crawl space. *She asked him if the armored was intended for use
outdoors, which he avoided. *It was also clear that she had spoken to
him earlier before picking out her wire. * *After watching this for a
couple mins, I did my best to get the lady pointed in the right
direction, which was to tell her she most likely needs a 40 or 50 amp
circuit, heavier wire capable of that kind of load and to go back to
the appliance dept to find out what the stove installation manual
called for and to seek an electrician.

I find it curious how someone with no technical knowledge can go from
buying a stove to picking out 50ft of wire to hook it up.

What is even scarier is that she probably had more electrical
knowledge than the store clerk in the electrical department.
* Not hard.
I went to buy some single pair 22 ga cable to hook up a phone extension
on the old Nortel digital PBX at the office - 27 phones already
connected and working using that wire, just needed to add #28 and the
"expert" who had apparently worked for the phone company as well as
holding an electrician's licence, told me I needed cat5, or at minimum
cat3 cable - 4 twisted pair. I told him he was wrong - all of the
exixting phones were connected with single pair and had been working
for years.
He argued with me so I went elsewhere to buy my wire.

You could use CAT3 2 pair. Even though the Nortel will work with a
single pair. It's advisable to use twisted pair because the Nortel phone
will get noisy if you don't use twisted pair. I've never seen any single
twisted pair phone wire except for the very old cloth insulated stuff. I
know this because I've installed and programed a lot of Nortel systems.
Nortel has merged with Avaya and a lot of Nortel stuff will no longer be
manufactured. What kind of wire did you wind up using?

TDD

Doorbell wire is usually twisted? And you use twisted pair to keep the
proper impedance along the cable which prevents crosstalk. The same
reason Cat5e is able to do gigabit though you'd really want cat6.

--
Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

"Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse"

The best I can do at this point is 2 out of 3.

Now, that is either clueless or insensetive. Like she thinks no one
buys stuff as presents. I also rather don't much like clerks who tell
me what I need.

I had a similar experience attempting to buy a shock absorber for my
vehicle at Sears. The clerk insisted to know what kind of vehicle, and
refused to sell me the one I wanted. Actually, I have bought nearly
nothing at Shears after that.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"HeyBub" wrote in message
m...


I tried to buy perfume for a Christmas present. "May I help you,"
inquired
the matron at the perfume counter of an upscale store.

"Yes, I want that bottle of perfume - 'Woman' by Jovan"

"No," she said. "You want the one next to it, 'Man' "

"Uh, no, I want 'Woman' "

"Really, sir, 'Man' is the one for you" she insisted.

"You're beginning to sound like my ex-wife. I know what I want"

"Sir," she explained, but her patience was clearly being exhausted.
"They
work completely different. You're a male and 'Man' is the fragrance
for
you."

I fixed her with a steely stare. "If you must know, I'm having a sex
change
operation right after the first of the year and I'm trying to stock up
on
all the gear. Gimmie 'Woman'!"

I distinctly hear the word "Eek" as she hurriedly shuffled away to get
a
supervisor.

HeyBub wrote:
(snip)


I tried to buy perfume for a Christmas present. "May I help you," inquired
the matron at the perfume counter of an upscale store.

"Yes, I want that bottle of perfume - 'Woman' by Jovan"

"No," she said. "You want the one next to it, 'Man' "

"Uh, no, I want 'Woman' "

"Really, sir, 'Man' is the one for you" she insisted.

"You're beginning to sound like my ex-wife. I know what I want"

"Sir," she explained, but her patience was clearly being exhausted. "They
work completely different. You're a male and 'Man' is the fragrance for
you."

I fixed her with a steely stare. "If you must know, I'm having a sex change
operation right after the first of the year and I'm trying to stock up on
all the gear. Gimmie 'Woman'!"

I distinctly hear the word "Eek" as she hurriedly shuffled away to get a
supervisor.



Amusing, but I suspect you are pulling our leg. The default assumption
almost all clerks would have is that a male coming to the counter alone,
is buying a gift for a female, especially near Xmas or Valentines day.
There are Very Few males that buy high-end stinkum for themselves-
almost all male-oriented fragrances (other than the kiddy crap in spray
cans, which is really more like deodorant) are purchased by females
trying to 'improve' the guy they are stuck with.

--
aem sends...

On Aug 26, 10:41*pm, aemeijers wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
(snip)

I tried to buy perfume for a Christmas present. "May I help you," inquired
the matron at the perfume counter of an upscale store.

"Yes, I want that bottle of perfume - 'Woman' by Jovan"

"No," she said. "You want the one next to it, 'Man' "

"Uh, no, I want 'Woman' "

"Really, sir, 'Man' is the one for you" she insisted.

"You're beginning to sound like my ex-wife. I know what I want"

"Sir," she explained, but her patience was clearly being exhausted. "They
work completely different. You're a male and 'Man' is the fragrance for
you."

I fixed her with a steely stare. "If you must know, I'm having a sex change
operation right after the first of the year and I'm trying to stock up on
all the gear. Gimmie 'Woman'!"

I distinctly hear the word "Eek" as she hurriedly shuffled away to get a
supervisor.

Amusing, but I suspect you are pulling our leg. The default assumption
almost all clerks would have is that a male coming to the counter alone,
is buying a gift for a female, especially near Xmas or Valentines day.
There are Very Few males that buy high-end stinkum for themselves-
almost all male-oriented fragrances (other than the kiddy crap in spray
cans, which is really more like deodorant) are purchased by females
trying to 'improve' the guy they are stuck with.

--
aem sends...

My wife figured out a long time ago that it's going to take a lot more
than some high-end stinkum to improve me.

I'm glad 'cuz I never wore the stuff.

On 8/26/2010 4:05 PM, Jeff The Drunk wrote:
On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 13:11:35 -0700, DerbyDad03 wrote:

Doorbell wire is usually twisted? And you use twisted pair to keep the
proper impedance along the cable which prevents crosstalk. The same
reason Cat5e is able to do gigabit though you'd really want cat6.

--
Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

"Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse"

The best I can do at this point is 2 out of 3.

So you've already lived fast and died young? Good to know they have
broadband in Heaven.....or did you go somewhere else ?

hugh's net works anywhere. (so they say)

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

aemeijers wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
(snip)


I tried to buy perfume for a Christmas present. "May I help you,"
inquired the matron at the perfume counter of an upscale store.

"Yes, I want that bottle of perfume - 'Woman' by Jovan"

"No," she said. "You want the one next to it, 'Man' "

"Uh, no, I want 'Woman' "

"Really, sir, 'Man' is the one for you" she insisted.

"You're beginning to sound like my ex-wife. I know what I want"

"Sir," she explained, but her patience was clearly being exhausted.
"They work completely different. You're a male and 'Man' is the
fragrance for you."

I fixed her with a steely stare. "If you must know, I'm having a sex
change operation right after the first of the year and I'm trying to
stock up on all the gear. Gimmie 'Woman'!"

I distinctly hear the word "Eek" as she hurriedly shuffled away to
get a supervisor.



Amusing, but I suspect you are pulling our leg.

No, really. If your first reaction was that the anecdote was fiction, you've
probably never approached a stranger with: "What would you say if I told you
I had a potato?"

On Aug 26, 6:58*pm, willshak wrote:
wrote the following:





On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 11:49:18 -0400, willshak
wrote:

wrote the following:

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 09:48:21 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Hooking up a stove with 14 gage wire? *Hope she connects it to a 15
amp breaker.

*Be just fine if it is a GAS stove.

Nobody specified what kind of stove.

Trader4 told her she would need the heavier circuit and cord, so he must
have known it was an electric stove.

*He might have just ASSUMED it was an electric stove.

I trust Trader4 to KNOW what kind of stove it was.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Yes, it was an electric stove. Thanks for the confidence Bill

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 16:49:42 -0500, The Daring Dufas wrote:

On 8/26/2010 3:03 PM, Meat Plow wrote:
On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 14:55:27 -0500, The Daring Dufas wrote:

On 8/26/2010 10:30 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 10:02:35 -0500, AZ Nomad
wrote:

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 06:36:20 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:
I was in the electrical dept the other day having some wire cut. A
lady pushing a cart comes along to ask the guy, who from all
indications didn't know much, which wire is the right one to use to
hook up her new stove. In the cart are Romex and armored cable,
both 14 gauge. She was most concerned about getting the right kind
to use in crawl space. She asked him if the armored was intended
for use outdoors, which he avoided. It was also clear that she had
spoken to him earlier before picking out her wire. After
watching this for a couple mins, I did my best to get the lady
pointed in the right direction, which was to tell her she most
likely needs a 40 or 50 amp circuit, heavier wire capable of that
kind of load and to go back to the appliance dept to find out what
the stove installation manual called for and to seek an
electrician.

I find it curious how someone with no technical knowledge can go
from buying a stove to picking out 50ft of wire to hook it up.

What is even scarier is that she probably had more electrical
knowledge than the store clerk in the electrical department.
Not hard.
I went to buy some single pair 22 ga cable to hook up a phone
extension on the old Nortel digital PBX at the office - 27 phones
already connected and working using that wire, just needed to add #28
and the "expert" who had apparently worked for the phone company as
well as holding an electrician's licence, told me I needed cat5, or
at minimum cat3 cable - 4 twisted pair. I told him he was wrong - all
of the exixting phones were connected with single pair and had been
working for years.
He argued with me so I went elsewhere to buy my wire.

You could use CAT3 2 pair. Even though the Nortel will work with a
single pair. It's advisable to use twisted pair because the Nortel
phone will get noisy if you don't use twisted pair. I've never seen
any single twisted pair phone wire except for the very old cloth
insulated stuff. I know this because I've installed and programed a
lot of Nortel systems. Nortel has merged with Avaya and a lot of
Nortel stuff will no longer be manufactured. What kind of wire did you
wind up using?

TDD

Doorbell wire is usually twisted? And you use twisted pair to keep the
proper impedance along the cable which prevents crosstalk. The same
reason Cat5e is able to do gigabit though you'd really want cat6.


The last Cat5 I certified yesterday tested better than Cat6 and the
speed tested better than 1 GbE in speed. It's all in how careful you are
when you install it.

TDD

Well that's cool. I supposed you used one of those time domain things to
test.

On 8/27/2010 7:21 AM, Jeff The Drunk wrote:
On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 16:49:42 -0500, The Daring Dufas wrote:

On 8/26/2010 3:03 PM, Meat Plow wrote:
On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 14:55:27 -0500, The Daring Dufas wrote:

On 8/26/2010 10:30 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 10:02:35 -0500, AZ Nomad
wrote:

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 06:36:20 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:
I was in the electrical dept the other day having some wire cut. A
lady pushing a cart comes along to ask the guy, who from all
indications didn't know much, which wire is the right one to use to
hook up her new stove. In the cart are Romex and armored cable,
both 14 gauge. She was most concerned about getting the right kind
to use in crawl space. She asked him if the armored was intended
for use outdoors, which he avoided. It was also clear that she had
spoken to him earlier before picking out her wire. After
watching this for a couple mins, I did my best to get the lady
pointed in the right direction, which was to tell her she most
likely needs a 40 or 50 amp circuit, heavier wire capable of that
kind of load and to go back to the appliance dept to find out what
the stove installation manual called for and to seek an
electrician.

I find it curious how someone with no technical knowledge can go
from buying a stove to picking out 50ft of wire to hook it up.

What is even scarier is that she probably had more electrical
knowledge than the store clerk in the electrical department.
Not hard.
I went to buy some single pair 22 ga cable to hook up a phone
extension on the old Nortel digital PBX at the office - 27 phones
already connected and working using that wire, just needed to add #28
and the "expert" who had apparently worked for the phone company as
well as holding an electrician's licence, told me I needed cat5, or
at minimum cat3 cable - 4 twisted pair. I told him he was wrong - all
of the exixting phones were connected with single pair and had been
working for years.
He argued with me so I went elsewhere to buy my wire.

You could use CAT3 2 pair. Even though the Nortel will work with a
single pair. It's advisable to use twisted pair because the Nortel
phone will get noisy if you don't use twisted pair. I've never seen
any single twisted pair phone wire except for the very old cloth
insulated stuff. I know this because I've installed and programed a
lot of Nortel systems. Nortel has merged with Avaya and a lot of
Nortel stuff will no longer be manufactured. What kind of wire did you
wind up using?

TDD

Doorbell wire is usually twisted? And you use twisted pair to keep the
proper impedance along the cable which prevents crosstalk. The same
reason Cat5e is able to do gigabit though you'd really want cat6.


The last Cat5 I certified yesterday tested better than Cat6 and the
speed tested better than 1 GbE in speed. It's all in how careful you are
when you install it.

TDD

Well that's cool. I supposed you used one of those time domain things to
test.

Nope, well sort of, it's a Byte Brothers Real World Certifier. We got
it for less than $400.00 from one of our suppliers. It works very well
and I can Email or print the results for whomever we do the work for.

http://www.bytebrothers.com/bb_teste...0Certifier.htm

TDD

On Fri, 27 Aug 2010 08:46:06 -0500, The Daring Dufas wrote:

On 8/27/2010 7:21 AM, Jeff The Drunk wrote:
On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 16:49:42 -0500, The Daring Dufas wrote:

On 8/26/2010 3:03 PM, Meat Plow wrote:
On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 14:55:27 -0500, The Daring Dufas wrote:

On 8/26/2010 10:30 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 10:02:35 -0500, AZ Nomad
wrote:

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 06:36:20 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:
I was in the electrical dept the other day having some wire cut.
A lady pushing a cart comes along to ask the guy, who from all
indications didn't know much, which wire is the right one to use
to hook up her new stove. In the cart are Romex and armored
cable, both 14 gauge. She was most concerned about getting the
right kind to use in crawl space. She asked him if the armored
was intended for use outdoors, which he avoided. It was also
clear that she had spoken to him earlier before picking out her
wire. After watching this for a couple mins, I did my best to
get the lady pointed in the right direction, which was to tell
her she most likely needs a 40 or 50 amp circuit, heavier wire
capable of that kind of load and to go back to the appliance dept
to find out what the stove installation manual called for and to
seek an electrician.

I find it curious how someone with no technical knowledge can go
from buying a stove to picking out 50ft of wire to hook it up.

What is even scarier is that she probably had more electrical
knowledge than the store clerk in the electrical department.
Not hard.
I went to buy some single pair 22 ga cable to hook up a phone
extension on the old Nortel digital PBX at the office - 27 phones
already connected and working using that wire, just needed to add
#28 and the "expert" who had apparently worked for the phone
company as well as holding an electrician's licence, told me I
needed cat5, or at minimum cat3 cable - 4 twisted pair. I told him
he was wrong - all of the exixting phones were connected with
single pair and had been working for years.
He argued with me so I went elsewhere to buy my wire.

You could use CAT3 2 pair. Even though the Nortel will work with a
single pair. It's advisable to use twisted pair because the Nortel
phone will get noisy if you don't use twisted pair. I've never seen
any single twisted pair phone wire except for the very old cloth
insulated stuff. I know this because I've installed and programed a
lot of Nortel systems. Nortel has merged with Avaya and a lot of
Nortel stuff will no longer be manufactured. What kind of wire did
you wind up using?

TDD

Doorbell wire is usually twisted? And you use twisted pair to keep
the proper impedance along the cable which prevents crosstalk. The
same reason Cat5e is able to do gigabit though you'd really want
cat6.


The last Cat5 I certified yesterday tested better than Cat6 and the
speed tested better than 1 GbE in speed. It's all in how careful you
are when you install it.

TDD

Well that's cool. I supposed you used one of those time domain things
to test.

Nope, well sort of, it's a Byte Brothers Real World Certifier. We got it
for less than $400.00 from one of our suppliers. It works very well and
I can Email or print the results for whomever we do the work for.

http://www.bytebrothers.com/bb_teste...0Certifier.htm

TDD

That's a good price but I wonder how it stands up to a Fluke TDR (time
domain reflectometer). I've used one to verify and troubleshoot CAT5.

Also wonder if your Byte Bros uses TDR technology too?

Do you burp the alphabet, after dinner?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"DerbyDad03"
wrote in message
...

My wife figured out a long time ago that it's going to take a lot more
than some high-end stinkum to improve me.

I'm glad 'cuz I never wore the stuff.

That, or you're very glad to see me. When does Allen Funt appear?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"HeyBub"
wrote in message
...

No, really. If your first reaction was that the anecdote was fiction,
you've
probably never approached a stranger with: "What would you say if I
told you
I had a potato?"

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
Do you burp the alphabet, after dinner?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.


No but you ought to hear my presidential introduction, Baraaaaaaacckkkkk.
I'm pretty prod of it. -

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 14:10:55 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 11:42:08 -0500, AZ Nomad
wrote:

Insane. We're dealing with 19th century technology. used to be 4
wires, now only two are needed. Anything from 0000 to 30 guage wire
will work; pick wire that can survive the environment and you're done.

Phones have never needed more than a single pair unless you had
selective ringing on a party line. Then it was 3 wire. Four wire cable
came with the Princess phone to serve the light.

Even selective ring could be done over two wires. The ring generator
frequency determined which bell rang.

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 11:30:21 -0400, wrote:


I went to buy some single pair 22 ga cable to hook up a phone
extension on the old Nortel digital PBX at the office - 27 phones
already connected and working using that wire, just needed to add #28
and the "expert" who had apparently worked for the phone company as
well as holding an electrician's licence, told me I needed cat5, or at
minimum cat3 cable - 4 twisted pair. I told him he was wrong - all of
the exixting phones were connected with single pair and had been
working for years.
He argued with me so I went elsewhere to buy my wire.

People confuse what is often used, generally used, even recommended,
with what is necesary. They don't know how the stuff works; it
doesn't dawn on them that they have a phone at home with only four
wires, and they're doing good to remember what someone uses, no matter
who.

mm wrote:
On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 11:30:21 -0400, wrote:


I went to buy some single pair 22 ga cable to hook up a phone
extension on the old Nortel digital PBX at the office - 27 phones
already connected and working using that wire, just needed to add #28
and the "expert" who had apparently worked for the phone company as
well as holding an electrician's licence, told me I needed cat5, or
at minimum cat3 cable - 4 twisted pair. I told him he was wrong -
all of the exixting phones were connected with single pair and had
been working for years.
He argued with me so I went elsewhere to buy my wire.

People confuse what is often used, generally used, even recommended,
with what is necesary. They don't know how the stuff works; it
doesn't dawn on them that they have a phone at home with only four
wires, and they're doing good to remember what someone uses, no matter
who.

Actually, you need only two wires to make a 'phone go.