I was in the electrical dept the other day having some wire cut. A
lady pushing a cart comes along to ask the guy, who from all
indications didn't know much, which wire is the right one to use to
hook up her new stove. In the cart are Romex and armored cable, both
14 gauge. She was most concerned about getting the right kind to use
in crawl space. She asked him if the armored was intended for use
outdoors, which he avoided. It was also clear that she had spoken to
him earlier before picking out her wire. After watching this for a
couple mins, I did my best to get the lady pointed in the right
direction, which was to tell her she most likely needs a 40 or 50 amp
circuit, heavier wire capable of that kind of load and to go back to
the appliance dept to find out what the stove installation manual
called for and to seek an electrician.

I find it curious how someone with no technical knowledge can go from
buying a stove to picking out 50ft of wire to hook it up.

Hooking up a stove with 14 gage wire? Hope she connects it to a 15
amp breaker.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


wrote in message
...
I was in the electrical dept the other day having some wire cut. A
lady pushing a cart comes along to ask the guy, who from all
indications didn't know much, which wire is the right one to use to
hook up her new stove. In the cart are Romex and armored cable, both
14 gauge. She was most concerned about getting the right kind to use
in crawl space. She asked him if the armored was intended for use
outdoors, which he avoided. It was also clear that she had spoken to
him earlier before picking out her wire. After watching this for a
couple mins, I did my best to get the lady pointed in the right
direction, which was to tell her she most likely needs a 40 or 50 amp
circuit, heavier wire capable of that kind of load and to go back to
the appliance dept to find out what the stove installation manual
called for and to seek an electrician.

I find it curious how someone with no technical knowledge can go from
buying a stove to picking out 50ft of wire to hook it up.

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 09:48:21 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Hooking up a stove with 14 gage wire? Hope she connects it to a 15
amp breaker.
Be just fine if it is a GAS stove.

Nobody specified what kind of stove.

wrote the following:
On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 09:48:21 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:


Hooking up a stove with 14 gage wire? Hope she connects it to a 15
amp breaker.

Be just fine if it is a GAS stove.

Nobody specified what kind of stove.



Trader4 told her she would need the heavier circuit and cord, so he must
have known it was an electric stove.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

On Aug 26, 10:24*am, wrote:
On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 09:48:21 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"

wrote:
Hooking up a stove with 14 gage wire? *Hope she connects it to a 15
amp breaker.

*Be just fine if it is a GAS stove.

Nobody specified what kind of stove.

What sort of fittings to you use on 14AWG to connect it to a gas
line? ;-)

On Aug 26, 2:46*pm, keith wrote:
On Aug 26, 10:24*am, wrote:

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 09:48:21 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"

wrote:
Hooking up a stove with 14 gage wire? *Hope she connects it to a 15
amp breaker.

*Be just fine if it is a GAS stove.

Nobody specified what kind of stove.

What sort of fittings to you use on 14AWG to connect it to a gas
line? *;-)

Sharkbites

On 8/26/2010 1:46 PM, keith wrote:
On Aug 26, 10:24 am, wrote:
On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 09:48:21 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"

wrote:
Hooking up a stove with 14 gage wire? Hope she connects it to a 15
amp breaker.

Be just fine if it is a GAS stove.

Nobody specified what kind of stove.

What sort of fittings to you use on 14AWG to connect it to a gas
line? ;-)

it's very similar to the connector you use to hook twisted pair to fiber.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

wrote in message
...
I was in the electrical dept the other day having some wire cut. A
lady pushing a cart comes along to ask the guy, who from all
indications didn't know much, which wire is the right one to use to
hook up her new stove. In the cart are Romex and armored cable, both
14 gauge. She was most concerned about getting the right kind to use
in crawl space. She asked him if the armored was intended for use
outdoors, which he avoided. It was also clear that she had spoken to
him earlier before picking out her wire. After watching this for a
couple mins, I did my best to get the lady pointed in the right
direction, which was to tell her she most likely needs a 40 or 50 amp
circuit, heavier wire capable of that kind of load and to go back to
the appliance dept to find out what the stove installation manual
called for and to seek an electrician.

I find it curious how someone with no technical knowledge can go from
buying a stove to picking out 50ft of wire to hook it up.



Somebody's got to keep the fire department busy or they'll get bored.

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 06:36:20 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
I was in the electrical dept the other day having some wire cut. A
lady pushing a cart comes along to ask the guy, who from all
indications didn't know much, which wire is the right one to use to
hook up her new stove. In the cart are Romex and armored cable, both
14 gauge. She was most concerned about getting the right kind to use
in crawl space. She asked him if the armored was intended for use
outdoors, which he avoided. It was also clear that she had spoken to
him earlier before picking out her wire. After watching this for a
couple mins, I did my best to get the lady pointed in the right
direction, which was to tell her she most likely needs a 40 or 50 amp
circuit, heavier wire capable of that kind of load and to go back to
the appliance dept to find out what the stove installation manual
called for and to seek an electrician.

I find it curious how someone with no technical knowledge can go from
buying a stove to picking out 50ft of wire to hook it up.

What is even scarier is that she probably had more electrical knowledge
than the store clerk in the electrical department.

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 10:02:35 -0500, AZ Nomad
wrote:

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 06:36:20 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
I was in the electrical dept the other day having some wire cut. A
lady pushing a cart comes along to ask the guy, who from all
indications didn't know much, which wire is the right one to use to
hook up her new stove. In the cart are Romex and armored cable, both
14 gauge. She was most concerned about getting the right kind to use
in crawl space. She asked him if the armored was intended for use
outdoors, which he avoided. It was also clear that she had spoken to
him earlier before picking out her wire. After watching this for a
couple mins, I did my best to get the lady pointed in the right
direction, which was to tell her she most likely needs a 40 or 50 amp
circuit, heavier wire capable of that kind of load and to go back to
the appliance dept to find out what the stove installation manual
called for and to seek an electrician.

I find it curious how someone with no technical knowledge can go from
buying a stove to picking out 50ft of wire to hook it up.

What is even scarier is that she probably had more electrical knowledge
than the store clerk in the electrical department.
Not hard.
I went to buy some single pair 22 ga cable to hook up a phone
extension on the old Nortel digital PBX at the office - 27 phones
already connected and working using that wire, just needed to add #28
and the "expert" who had apparently worked for the phone company as
well as holding an electrician's licence, told me I needed cat5, or at
minimum cat3 cable - 4 twisted pair. I told him he was wrong - all of
the exixting phones were connected with single pair and had been
working for years.
He argued with me so I went elsewhere to buy my wire.

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 11:30:21 -0400, wrote:
On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 10:02:35 -0500, AZ Nomad
wrote:

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 06:36:20 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
I was in the electrical dept the other day having some wire cut. A
lady pushing a cart comes along to ask the guy, who from all
indications didn't know much, which wire is the right one to use to
hook up her new stove. In the cart are Romex and armored cable, both
14 gauge. She was most concerned about getting the right kind to use
in crawl space. She asked him if the armored was intended for use
outdoors, which he avoided. It was also clear that she had spoken to
him earlier before picking out her wire. After watching this for a
couple mins, I did my best to get the lady pointed in the right
direction, which was to tell her she most likely needs a 40 or 50 amp
circuit, heavier wire capable of that kind of load and to go back to
the appliance dept to find out what the stove installation manual
called for and to seek an electrician.

I find it curious how someone with no technical knowledge can go from
buying a stove to picking out 50ft of wire to hook it up.

What is even scarier is that she probably had more electrical knowledge
than the store clerk in the electrical department.
Not hard.
I went to buy some single pair 22 ga cable to hook up a phone
extension on the old Nortel digital PBX at the office - 27 phones
already connected and working using that wire, just needed to add #28
and the "expert" who had apparently worked for the phone company as
well as holding an electrician's licence, told me I needed cat5, or at
minimum cat3 cable - 4 twisted pair. I told him he was wrong - all of
the exixting phones were connected with single pair and had been
working for years.
He argued with me so I went elsewhere to buy my wire.

Insane. We're dealing with 19th century technology. used to be 4
wires, now only two are needed. Anything from 0000 to 30 guage wire
will work; pick wire that can survive the environment and you're done.

I wouldn't trust such a monkey to sell
flashlight batteries at radio shack.

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 11:42:08 -0500, AZ Nomad wrote:

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 11:30:21 -0400,
wrote:
On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 10:02:35 -0500, AZ Nomad
wrote:

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 06:36:20 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:
I was in the electrical dept the other day having some wire cut. A
lady pushing a cart comes along to ask the guy, who from all
indications didn't know much, which wire is the right one to use to
hook up her new stove. In the cart are Romex and armored cable, both
14 gauge. She was most concerned about getting the right kind to use
in crawl space. She asked him if the armored was intended for use
outdoors, which he avoided. It was also clear that she had spoken to
him earlier before picking out her wire. After watching this for a
couple mins, I did my best to get the lady pointed in the right
direction, which was to tell her she most likely needs a 40 or 50 amp
circuit, heavier wire capable of that kind of load and to go back to
the appliance dept to find out what the stove installation manual
called for and to seek an electrician.

I find it curious how someone with no technical knowledge can go from
buying a stove to picking out 50ft of wire to hook it up.

What is even scarier is that she probably had more electrical knowledge
than the store clerk in the electrical department.
Not hard.
I went to buy some single pair 22 ga cable to hook up a phone extension
on the old Nortel digital PBX at the office - 27 phones already
connected and working using that wire, just needed to add #28 and the
"expert" who had apparently worked for the phone company as well as
holding an electrician's licence, told me I needed cat5, or at minimum
cat3 cable - 4 twisted pair. I told him he was wrong - all of the
exixting phones were connected with single pair and had been working for
years.
He argued with me so I went elsewhere to buy my wire.

Insane. We're dealing with 19th century technology. used to be 4
wires, now only two are needed. Anything from 0000 to 30 guage wire
will work; pick wire that can survive the environment and you're done.

I wouldn't trust such a monkey to sell flashlight batteries at radio
shack.

PBX technology was 19th century?

On 8/26/2010 1:10 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 11:42:08 -0500, AZ Nomad
wrote:

Insane. We're dealing with 19th century technology. used to be 4
wires, now only two are needed. Anything from 0000 to 30 guage wire
will work; pick wire that can survive the environment and you're done.

Phones have never needed more than a single pair unless you had
selective ringing on a party line. Then it was 3 wire. Four wire cable
came with the Princess phone to serve the light.

I used to install a lot of 25 and 50 pair telephones. 1A2 systems
are tough and you could hit someone over the head with one of those
monster phones and knock em out.

TDD

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 14:10:55 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 11:42:08 -0500, AZ Nomad
wrote:

Insane. We're dealing with 19th century technology. used to be 4
wires, now only two are needed. Anything from 0000 to 30 guage wire
will work; pick wire that can survive the environment and you're done.

Phones have never needed more than a single pair unless you had
selective ringing on a party line. Then it was 3 wire. Four wire cable
came with the Princess phone to serve the light.

Even selective ring could be done over two wires. The ring generator
frequency determined which bell rang.

On 8/26/2010 10:30 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 10:02:35 -0500, AZ Nomad
wrote:

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 06:36:20 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
I was in the electrical dept the other day having some wire cut. A
lady pushing a cart comes along to ask the guy, who from all
indications didn't know much, which wire is the right one to use to
hook up her new stove. In the cart are Romex and armored cable, both
14 gauge. She was most concerned about getting the right kind to use
in crawl space. She asked him if the armored was intended for use
outdoors, which he avoided. It was also clear that she had spoken to
him earlier before picking out her wire. After watching this for a
couple mins, I did my best to get the lady pointed in the right
direction, which was to tell her she most likely needs a 40 or 50 amp
circuit, heavier wire capable of that kind of load and to go back to
the appliance dept to find out what the stove installation manual
called for and to seek an electrician.

I find it curious how someone with no technical knowledge can go from
buying a stove to picking out 50ft of wire to hook it up.

What is even scarier is that she probably had more electrical knowledge
than the store clerk in the electrical department.
Not hard.
I went to buy some single pair 22 ga cable to hook up a phone
extension on the old Nortel digital PBX at the office - 27 phones
already connected and working using that wire, just needed to add #28
and the "expert" who had apparently worked for the phone company as
well as holding an electrician's licence, told me I needed cat5, or at
minimum cat3 cable - 4 twisted pair. I told him he was wrong - all of
the exixting phones were connected with single pair and had been
working for years.
He argued with me so I went elsewhere to buy my wire.

You could use CAT3 2 pair. Even though the Nortel will work with a
single pair. It's advisable to use twisted pair because the Nortel
phone will get noisy if you don't use twisted pair. I've never seen
any single twisted pair phone wire except for the very old cloth
insulated stuff. I know this because I've installed and programed
a lot of Nortel systems. Nortel has merged with Avaya and a lot of
Nortel stuff will no longer be manufactured. What kind of wire did
you wind up using?

TDD

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 14:55:27 -0500, The Daring Dufas wrote:

On 8/26/2010 10:30 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 10:02:35 -0500, AZ Nomad
wrote:

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 06:36:20 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:
I was in the electrical dept the other day having some wire cut. A
lady pushing a cart comes along to ask the guy, who from all
indications didn't know much, which wire is the right one to use to
hook up her new stove. In the cart are Romex and armored cable, both
14 gauge. She was most concerned about getting the right kind to use
in crawl space. She asked him if the armored was intended for use
outdoors, which he avoided. It was also clear that she had spoken to
him earlier before picking out her wire. After watching this for a
couple mins, I did my best to get the lady pointed in the right
direction, which was to tell her she most likely needs a 40 or 50 amp
circuit, heavier wire capable of that kind of load and to go back to
the appliance dept to find out what the stove installation manual
called for and to seek an electrician.

I find it curious how someone with no technical knowledge can go from
buying a stove to picking out 50ft of wire to hook it up.

What is even scarier is that she probably had more electrical
knowledge than the store clerk in the electrical department.
Not hard.
I went to buy some single pair 22 ga cable to hook up a phone extension
on the old Nortel digital PBX at the office - 27 phones already
connected and working using that wire, just needed to add #28 and the
"expert" who had apparently worked for the phone company as well as
holding an electrician's licence, told me I needed cat5, or at minimum
cat3 cable - 4 twisted pair. I told him he was wrong - all of the
exixting phones were connected with single pair and had been working
for years.
He argued with me so I went elsewhere to buy my wire.

You could use CAT3 2 pair. Even though the Nortel will work with a
single pair. It's advisable to use twisted pair because the Nortel phone
will get noisy if you don't use twisted pair. I've never seen any single
twisted pair phone wire except for the very old cloth insulated stuff. I
know this because I've installed and programed a lot of Nortel systems.
Nortel has merged with Avaya and a lot of Nortel stuff will no longer be
manufactured. What kind of wire did you wind up using?

TDD

Doorbell wire is usually twisted? And you use twisted pair to keep the
proper impedance along the cable which prevents crosstalk. The same
reason Cat5e is able to do gigabit though you'd really want cat6.





--
Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse

On Aug 26, 4:03*pm, Meat Plow wrote:
On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 14:55:27 -0500, The Daring Dufas wrote:
On 8/26/2010 10:30 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 10:02:35 -0500, AZ Nomad
*wrote:

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 06:36:20 -0700 (PDT),
*wrote:
I was in the electrical dept the other day having some wire cut. *A
lady pushing a cart comes along to ask the guy, who from all
indications didn't know much, which wire is the right one to use to
hook up her new stove. *In the cart are Romex and armored cable, both
14 gauge. *She was most concerned about getting the right kind to use
in crawl space. *She asked him if the armored was intended for use
outdoors, which he avoided. *It was also clear that she had spoken to
him earlier before picking out her wire. * *After watching this for a
couple mins, I did my best to get the lady pointed in the right
direction, which was to tell her she most likely needs a 40 or 50 amp
circuit, heavier wire capable of that kind of load and to go back to
the appliance dept to find out what the stove installation manual
called for and to seek an electrician.

I find it curious how someone with no technical knowledge can go from
buying a stove to picking out 50ft of wire to hook it up.

What is even scarier is that she probably had more electrical
knowledge than the store clerk in the electrical department.
* Not hard.
I went to buy some single pair 22 ga cable to hook up a phone extension
on the old Nortel digital PBX at the office - 27 phones already
connected and working using that wire, just needed to add #28 and the
"expert" who had apparently worked for the phone company as well as
holding an electrician's licence, told me I needed cat5, or at minimum
cat3 cable - 4 twisted pair. I told him he was wrong - all of the
exixting phones were connected with single pair and had been working
for years.
He argued with me so I went elsewhere to buy my wire.

You could use CAT3 2 pair. Even though the Nortel will work with a
single pair. It's advisable to use twisted pair because the Nortel phone
will get noisy if you don't use twisted pair. I've never seen any single
twisted pair phone wire except for the very old cloth insulated stuff. I
know this because I've installed and programed a lot of Nortel systems.
Nortel has merged with Avaya and a lot of Nortel stuff will no longer be
manufactured. What kind of wire did you wind up using?

TDD

Doorbell wire is usually twisted? And you use twisted pair to keep the
proper impedance along the cable which prevents crosstalk. The same
reason Cat5e is able to do gigabit though you'd really want cat6.

--
Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

"Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse"

The best I can do at this point is 2 out of 3.

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 11:30:21 -0400, wrote:


I went to buy some single pair 22 ga cable to hook up a phone
extension on the old Nortel digital PBX at the office - 27 phones
already connected and working using that wire, just needed to add #28
and the "expert" who had apparently worked for the phone company as
well as holding an electrician's licence, told me I needed cat5, or at
minimum cat3 cable - 4 twisted pair. I told him he was wrong - all of
the exixting phones were connected with single pair and had been
working for years.
He argued with me so I went elsewhere to buy my wire.

People confuse what is often used, generally used, even recommended,
with what is necesary. They don't know how the stuff works; it
doesn't dawn on them that they have a phone at home with only four
wires, and they're doing good to remember what someone uses, no matter
who.

mm wrote:
On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 11:30:21 -0400, wrote:


I went to buy some single pair 22 ga cable to hook up a phone
extension on the old Nortel digital PBX at the office - 27 phones
already connected and working using that wire, just needed to add #28
and the "expert" who had apparently worked for the phone company as
well as holding an electrician's licence, told me I needed cat5, or
at minimum cat3 cable - 4 twisted pair. I told him he was wrong -
all of the exixting phones were connected with single pair and had
been working for years.
He argued with me so I went elsewhere to buy my wire.

People confuse what is often used, generally used, even recommended,
with what is necesary. They don't know how the stuff works; it
doesn't dawn on them that they have a phone at home with only four
wires, and they're doing good to remember what someone uses, no matter
who.

Actually, you need only two wires to make a 'phone go.

On Aug 26, 9:36*am, wrote:
I was in the electrical dept the other day having some wire cut. *A
lady pushing a cart comes along to ask the guy, who from all
indications didn't know much, which wire is the right one to use to
hook up her new stove. *In the cart are Romex and armored cable, both
14 gauge. *She was most concerned about getting the right kind to use
in crawl space. *She asked him if the armored was intended for use
outdoors, which he avoided. *It was also clear that she had spoken to
him earlier before picking out her wire. * *After watching this for a
couple mins, I did my best to get the lady pointed in the right
direction, which was to tell her she most likely needs a 40 or 50 amp
circuit, heavier wire capable of that kind of load and to go back to
the appliance dept to find out what the stove installation manual
called for and to seek an electrician.

I find it curious how someone with no technical knowledge can go from
buying a stove to picking out 50ft of wire to hook it up.

"I find it curious how someone with no technical knowledge can go
from buying a stove to picking out 50ft of wire to hook it up."

Don't blame her.

There are basically three levels of knowledge:

1 - We know what we know.
2 - We know what we don't know.
3 - We don't know what we don't know.

She was at level 3: She didn't know what she didn't know.

In many instances I'm at Level 2. For example, I know that there are a
multitude of wire sizes and I know that there are different
specifications for different applications, but I also know that I
don't always know which spec fits which application. Level 2 is an OK
place to be, because as long you know that you don't know, you know
that you have some homework to do.

Level 3, however, is a dangerous place. When you don't know what you
don't know, you can easily assume that you *do* know.

In her case, she probably didn't even know that there was so many
things that she didn't know, so buying some wire probably seemed like
a simple task. Hopefully your advice moved her up to Level 2, making
her realize that she was in over her head.

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...


Level 3, however, is a dangerous place. When you don't know what you
don't know, you can easily assume that you *do* know.
===========

Rumsfeld syndrome!