"More than half of young people lack the skills they need to maintain their
homes, with many relying on their parents to carry out basic tasks, a survey
suggested today.
"Around 50 per cent of people aged under 35 admitted they did not know how
to rewire a plug, while 54 per cent did not know how to bleed a radiator and
63 per cent said they would not attempt to put up wallpaper, according to
Halifax Home Insurance."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz0xZu365qC

Or, in the current market, if a faucet starts dripping, walk away from your
home and buy another.

HeyBub wrote:
"More than half of young people lack the skills they need to maintain their
homes, with many relying on their parents to carry out basic tasks, a survey
suggested today.
"Around 50 per cent of people aged under 35 admitted they did not know how
to rewire a plug, while 54 per cent did not know how to bleed a radiator and
63 per cent said they would not attempt to put up wallpaper, according to
Halifax Home Insurance."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz0xZu365qC

Or, in the current market, if a faucet starts dripping, walk away from your
home and buy another.


I have advocated for years that HS junior or senior year needed a
course called 'stuff you need to know in the real world'. One semester
of stuff like how to own and operate a checking account/credit card, get
a consumer loan, not get bent over at the car dealer, etc. The other
semester of basic mechanical and home repair tasks, like how to change a
tire, how to check oil, how to not get bent over at the repair shop, how
to do basic household repairs, and how to know when to attempt it
yourself vs. when you should call a tradesman (and not get bent over by
him either.)

Well, parents obviously ain't passing on these skill sets any more,
assuming they ever had them.

--
aem sends....

On 2010-08-25, HeyBub wrote:

to rewire a plug, while 54 per cent did not know how to bleed a
radiator....

I'm thinking, "what the hell is 'bleed a radiator'", not realizing,
for a few seconds, this does not mean a car radiator. I suspect a
large majority of folks in the US haven't a clue about how to bleed a
steam radiator, having never seen one. Are there even radiators west
of the Mississippi?

nb

HeyBub wrote in message
...
"More than half of young people lack the skills they need to maintain
their homes, with many relying on their parents to carry out basic tasks,
a survey suggested today.
"Around 50 per cent of people aged under 35 admitted they did not
know how to rewire a plug, while 54 per cent did not know how to
bleed a radiator and 63 per cent said they would not attempt to put
up wallpaper, according to Halifax Home Insurance."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz0xZu365qC

Or, in the current market, if a faucet starts dripping, walk away from
your home and buy another.

I only know these things because I "helped" in the remodel of my home. I
fought my Father-unit tooth-and-nail the entire time I was living my
teenangst-riddled years. He didn't know half as much as my friends and if he
was able to provide a sample, I was quick to shoot it down as a poor sample.

As I got older, of course things changed, but I was still too slow to catch
on just how much he knew before he passed on. Saddest day I realized was the
day I called my Sainted Mother(tm) and asked, "So how do I do this again?"

"That was a lesson Dad tried to teach you. You didn't want to listen."

The same parents, with similar attitudes during the same times, are
lamenting their lack of listening skills because their kids have never seen
tools or had experiences that they did. shrug

Luckily for me, the foreman on the job saw potential and was willing to
"teach" me. It wasn't so much teach as letting me do it wrong until I was
totally frustrated and then saying, "I'd recommend doing it *this* way..."
Money and time meant a larger paycheck for him and a collej edumacation from
Hard Knocks U. for me but it was worth it.

The Ranger

On 8/24/2010 11:23 PM, notbob wrote:
On 2010-08-25, wrote:

to rewire a plug, while 54 per cent did not know how to bleed a
radiator....

I'm thinking, "what the hell is 'bleed a radiator'", not realizing,
for a few seconds, this does not mean a car radiator. I suspect a
large majority of folks in the US haven't a clue about how to bleed a
steam radiator, having never seen one. Are there even radiators west
of the Mississippi?

nb

When I was a first grader back in the middle of the last century, the
Catholic Parochial Gulag I was remanded to had steam heat via radiators.
I remember the hissing of the water separator doodad on the side of the
big old silver painted cast iron radiators. It was an old building then
and it had tall ceilings, transom windows, incandescent lights hanging
from the ceiling that had the half silvered big bulbs and of course, no
air conditioning. This was in North East Alabamastan and I don't see
steam except in hospitals and very old buildings, in fact, the steam
plant in downtown Birmingham is scheduled to shut down in 2013 because
of of too few customers. It is supplying steam to the UAB hospital
complex and other institutions in the area so UAB is looking at building
its own plant for $69 million. I have done some work in the basements
of some of the downtown buildings that got their steam from the existing
steam plant and the area around the steam meter was a bit warm. The
steam meter looks a lot like a water meter. There are steam
leeks all under those old buildings and I remember a steam line bursting
on a street a few years ago under a car that cooked the
occupants like lobsters.

http://blog.al.com/businessnews/2010...eam_plant.html

http://preview.tinyurl.com/2wb86ml

TDD

wrote:
On Tue, 24 Aug 2010 22:47:13 -0400, aemeijers
wrote:

HeyBub wrote:
"More than half of young people lack the skills they need to maintain their
homes, with many relying on their parents to carry out basic tasks, a survey
suggested today.
"Around 50 per cent of people aged under 35 admitted they did not know how
to rewire a plug, while 54 per cent did not know how to bleed a radiator and
63 per cent said they would not attempt to put up wallpaper, according to
Halifax Home Insurance."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz0xZu365qC

Or, in the current market, if a faucet starts dripping, walk away from your
home and buy another.


I have advocated for years that HS junior or senior year needed a
course called 'stuff you need to know in the real world'. One semester
of stuff like how to own and operate a checking account/credit card, get
a consumer loan, not get bent over at the car dealer, etc. The other
semester of basic mechanical and home repair tasks, like how to change a
tire, how to check oil, how to not get bent over at the repair shop, how
to do basic household repairs, and how to know when to attempt it
yourself vs. when you should call a tradesman (and not get bent over by
him either.)

Well, parents obviously ain't passing on these skill sets any more,
assuming they ever had them.


They used to call that "shop" and "home EC"

Perhaps in your part of the world. In the schools I attended, Home Ec
was cooking and sewing, and shop was Wood Shop and Metal Shop. Both
taught in Junior High (usually now known as Middle School), and it was
after my era when boys started taking home ec, and girls were allowed in
shop. Both were junior versions of what was called vo-ed track in High
School, where they steered the non-college-track kids. None of which
included the stuff that kids would need to know to live on their own.
More aimed at getting them ready for pink-collar and greasy-collar jobs
after graduation.

But yeah, what I am advocating is what HS shop and home ec shoulda been.

--
aem sends...

On 08/24/2010 09:47 PM, HeyBub wrote:
"More than half of young people lack the skills they need to maintain their
homes, with many relying on their parents to carry out basic tasks, a survey
suggested today.
"Around 50 per cent of people aged under 35 admitted they did not know how
to rewire a plug, while 54 per cent did not know how to bleed a radiator and
63 per cent said they would not attempt to put up wallpaper, according to
Halifax Home Insurance."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz0xZu365qC

Or, in the current market, if a faucet starts dripping, walk away from your
home and buy another.



I'm glad that people don't feel comfortable hanging wallpaper

FWIW I'm just barely outside that demographic and I consider myself
rather handy albeit not an expert.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On Aug 24, 11:23*pm, notbob wrote:
On 2010-08-25, HeyBub wrote:

to rewire a plug, while 54 per cent did not know how to bleed a
*radiator....

I'm thinking, "what the hell is 'bleed a radiator'", not realizing,
for a few seconds, this does not mean a car radiator. *I suspect a
large majority of folks in the US haven't a clue about how to bleed a
steam radiator, having never seen one. *Are there even radiators west
of the Mississippi?

nb

its the UK, cooler temps and all HW radiator heating

On Aug 25, 6:30*am, Nate Nagel wrote:
On 08/24/2010 09:47 PM, HeyBub wrote:

"More than half of young people lack the skills they need to maintain their
homes, with many relying on their parents to carry out basic tasks, a survey
suggested today.
"Around 50 per cent of people aged under 35 admitted they did not know how
to rewire a plug, while 54 per cent did not know how to bleed a radiator and
63 per cent said they would not attempt to put up wallpaper, according to
Halifax Home Insurance."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...likely-youre-3...

Or, in the current market, if a faucet starts dripping, walk away from your
home and buy another.

I'm glad that people don't feel comfortable hanging wallpaper

nate

I wish the previous owners of my house had been wall paper adverse.
I'm taking down the paper in one of the bathrooms now and it seems to
have been applied directly to the dry wall. Grrrrrrr.

Mike

On 8/25/2010 1:16 AM, The Ranger wrote:
I only know these things because I "helped" in the remodel of my home. I
fought my Father-unit tooth-and-nail the entire time I was living my
teenangst-riddled years. He didn't know half as much as my friends and if he
was able to provide a sample, I was quick to shoot it down as a poor sample.

As I got older, of course things changed, but I was still too slow to catch
on just how much he knew before he passed on. Saddest day I realized was the
day I called my Sainted Mother(tm) and asked, "So how do I do this again?"

"That was a lesson Dad tried to teach you. You didn't want to listen."



My father *did* lack those mechanical skills with the exception of he
knew how to roof, courtesy of *his* father. But he generally needed to
call an electrician to swap out light bulbs, etc. His VCR always
flashed 12:00.

Amazingly, he had Command Pilot wings and operated 4 engined transports
in the USAF. Of course, there he had a flight engineer to keep things up.

But my dad passed on something more important than mechanical skills
(which I developed just the same, courtesy of curiosity, DIY shows and a
lot of mistakes): a healthy skepticism for what I read and hear. I
can't say that he taught me how to think necessarily but he encouraged
me to examine what I did think for flaws.

It's made me a better man. And I change my own light bulbs, thank you.




Jay

On Aug 25, 6:34*am, Mike wrote:
On Aug 25, 6:30*am, Nate Nagel wrote:



On 08/24/2010 09:47 PM, HeyBub wrote:

"More than half of young people lack the skills they need to maintain their
homes, with many relying on their parents to carry out basic tasks, a survey
suggested today.
"Around 50 per cent of people aged under 35 admitted they did not know how
to rewire a plug, while 54 per cent did not know how to bleed a radiator and
63 per cent said they would not attempt to put up wallpaper, according to
Halifax Home Insurance."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...likely-youre-3....

Or, in the current market, if a faucet starts dripping, walk away from your
home and buy another.

I'm glad that people don't feel comfortable hanging wallpaper

It's a crime against humanity.

I wish the previous owners of my house had been wall paper adverse.
I'm taking down the paper in one of the bathrooms now and it seems to
have been applied directly to the dry wall. *Grrrrrrr.

My previous house had the wallpaper applied directly to the
sheetrock. What an unholy mess. It would have been easier to tear
out all the sheetrock and start over. When we looked for our current
house, wallpaper was a significant deduction.

On Aug 25, 5:23*am, notbob wrote:
On 2010-08-25, HeyBub wrote:

to rewire a plug, while 54 per cent did not know how to bleed a
*radiator....

I'm thinking, "what the hell is 'bleed a radiator'", not realizing,
for a few seconds, this does not mean a car radiator. *I suspect a
large majority of folks in the US haven't a clue about how to bleed a
steam radiator, having never seen one. *Are there even radiators west
of the Mississippi?

nb
A Brit newspaper.
There are some quite major differences in terminology across the pond.
The people being referred to here have never lived (as householders)
through a recession. (our last one being in the 1980's.) It's gonna
be a steep learning curve for them.
There's alot of people over here think the only way to earn a living
is sat in front of a computer screen these days. They don't want to
know about manual jobs.
When I was in school, everone learnt woodwork and metalwork. I don't
think that's the case any more.
You never see kids messing with cars anymore. A lot of hobbies that
involved construction have disappeared too.
All they know is instant gratification, buy your fun in a box. Or on
the tube/screen.

On Aug 25, 7:19*am, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
On 8/24/2010 11:23 PM, notbob wrote:

On 2010-08-25, *wrote:

to rewire a plug, while 54 per cent did not know how to bleed a
* radiator....

I'm thinking, "what the hell is 'bleed a radiator'", not realizing,
for a few seconds, this does not mean a car radiator. *I suspect a
large majority of folks in the US haven't a clue about how to bleed a
steam radiator, having never seen one. *Are there even radiators west
of the Mississippi?

nb

When I was a first grader back in the middle of the last century, the
Catholic Parochial Gulag I was remanded to had steam heat via radiators.
I remember the hissing of the water separator doodad on the side of the
big old silver painted cast iron radiators. It was an old building then
and it had tall ceilings, transom windows, incandescent lights hanging
from the ceiling that had the half silvered big bulbs and of course, no
air conditioning. This was in North East Alabamastan and I don't see
steam except in hospitals and very old buildings, in fact, the steam
plant in downtown Birmingham is scheduled to shut down in 2013 because
of of too few customers. It is supplying steam to the UAB hospital
complex and other institutions in the area so UAB is looking at building
its own plant for $69 million. I have done some work in the basements
of some of the downtown buildings that got their steam from the existing
steam plant and the area around the steam meter was a bit warm. The
steam meter looks a lot like a water meter. There are steam
leeks all under those old buildings and I remember a steam line bursting
on a street a few years ago under a car that cooked the
occupants like lobsters.

http://blog.al.com/businessnews/2010...eam_plant.html

http://preview.tinyurl.com/2wb86ml

TDD

I worked with steam for most of the time in the National Health
Service.
Well suited to coal/oil fired plant and very large sites. But once
you move to gas, lots of problems.
Also very inefficient and unneccesary with gas. Best got rid of
except in the case of V. large heat based electricity generation.

On Aug 25, 7:19*am, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
On 8/24/2010 11:23 PM, notbob wrote:

On 2010-08-25, *wrote:

to rewire a plug, while 54 per cent did not know how to bleed a
* radiator....

I'm thinking, "what the hell is 'bleed a radiator'", not realizing,
for a few seconds, this does not mean a car radiator. *I suspect a
large majority of folks in the US haven't a clue about how to bleed a
steam radiator, having never seen one. *Are there even radiators west
of the Mississippi?

nb

When I was a first grader back in the middle of the last century, the
Catholic Parochial Gulag I was remanded to had steam heat via radiators.
I remember the hissing of the water separator doodad on the side of the
big old silver painted cast iron radiators. It was an old building then
and it had tall ceilings, transom windows, incandescent lights hanging
from the ceiling that had the half silvered big bulbs and of course, no
air conditioning. This was in North East Alabamastan and I don't see
steam except in hospitals and very old buildings, in fact, the steam
plant in downtown Birmingham is scheduled to shut down in 2013 because
of of too few customers. It is supplying steam to the UAB hospital
complex and other institutions in the area so UAB is looking at building
its own plant for $69 million. I have done some work in the basements
of some of the downtown buildings that got their steam from the existing
steam plant and the area around the steam meter was a bit warm. The
steam meter looks a lot like a water meter. There are steam
leeks all under those old buildings and I remember a steam line bursting
on a street a few years ago under a car that cooked the
occupants like lobsters.

http://blog.al.com/businessnews/2010...eam_plant.html

http://preview.tinyurl.com/2wb86ml

TDD

Talking about your university, they gotta be mad these days. In
Europe NOBODY uses steam for distribution, it's being ripped out
everywhere. Anything to do with steam is massively costly to install
and maintain and massively inefficient. They will struggle to find
people who can run this plant too.

On Aug 25, 1:23*pm, Jay Hanig wrote:
On 8/25/2010 1:16 AM, The Ranger wrote:

I only know these things because I "helped" in the remodel of my home. I
fought my Father-unit tooth-and-nail the entire time I was living my
teenangst-riddled years. He didn't know half as much as my friends and if he
was able to provide a sample, I was quick to shoot it down as a poor sample.

As I got older, of course things changed, but I was still too slow to catch
on just how much he knew before he passed on. Saddest day I realized was the
day I called my Sainted Mother(tm) and asked, "So how do I do this again?"

"That was a lesson Dad tried to teach you. You didn't want to listen."

My father *did* lack those mechanical skills with the exception of he
knew how to roof, courtesy of *his* father. *But he generally needed to
call an electrician to swap out light bulbs, etc. *His VCR always
flashed 12:00.

Amazingly, he had Command Pilot wings and operated 4 engined transports
in the USAF. *Of course, there he had a flight engineer to keep things up.

But my dad passed on something more important than mechanical skills
(which I developed just the same, courtesy of curiosity, DIY shows and a
lot of mistakes): *a healthy skepticism for what I read and hear. *I
can't say that he taught me how to think necessarily but he encouraged
me to examine what I did think for flaws.

It's made me a better man. *And I change my own light bulbs, thank you.

Jay

The antithesis of DIY over here is GSI. Get Someone In. Used to be a
Polish plumber but they have mostly f***d off home due to the
reccession.
Poles are the equivalent here to your Mexs. Or maybe it's Romanians
now.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...es-months.html
The difference with Mexicans and Romanians is that Romanians are here
legally.

On Aug 24, 8:47*pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
"More than half of young people lack the skills they need to maintain their
homes, with many relying on their parents to carry out basic tasks, a survey
suggested today.
"Around 50 per cent of people aged under 35 admitted they did not know how
to rewire a plug, while 54 per cent did not know how to bleed a radiator and
63 per cent said they would not attempt to put up wallpaper, according to
Halifax Home Insurance."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...likely-youre-3...

Or, in the current market, if a faucet starts dripping, walk away from your
home and buy another.

When I first became a home owner I knew nothing about how to repair
stuff. It took a long time but now, after 30+ years of living in this
house, I feel I can repair almost anything.

Kind of like I never knew much about repairing computers until I
bought a Packard Bell back in the 80's.

On Aug 25, 8:44*am, hibb wrote:
On Aug 24, 8:47*pm, "HeyBub" wrote:

"More than half of young people lack the skills they need to maintain their
homes, with many relying on their parents to carry out basic tasks, a survey
suggested today.
"Around 50 per cent of people aged under 35 admitted they did not know how
to rewire a plug, while 54 per cent did not know how to bleed a radiator and
63 per cent said they would not attempt to put up wallpaper, according to
Halifax Home Insurance."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...likely-youre-3...

Or, in the current market, if a faucet starts dripping, walk away from your
home and buy another.

When I first became a home owner I knew nothing about how to repair
stuff. It took a long time but now, after 30+ years of living in this
house, I feel I can repair almost anything.

Pretty much, but for me it's four houses. There is stuff I won't do,
but not because they're too complicated.

Kind of like I never knew much about repairing computers until I
bought a Packard Bell back in the 80's.

Never had any qualms about diving into them, but it's what I do. ;-)

On Aug 25, 6:50*am, ransley wrote:
On Aug 24, 11:23*pm, notbob wrote:

On 2010-08-25, HeyBub wrote:

to rewire a plug, while 54 per cent did not know how to bleed a
*radiator....

I'm thinking, "what the hell is 'bleed a radiator'", not realizing,
for a few seconds, this does not mean a car radiator. *I suspect a
large majority of folks in the US haven't a clue about how to bleed a
steam radiator, having never seen one. *Are there even radiators west
of the Mississippi?

They're pretty rare in the Midwest, too, outside of large cities.

nb

its the UK, cooler temps and all HW radiator heating.

That also accounts for "rewire a plug", I believe. Harry can tell
us whether the U.K. has/hasn't standardized on a single
type of plug.

Cindy Hamilton

You don't bleed steam radiators, silly. You bleed hydrionic ones. I
lived for about ten years in a house with hydrionic heat system.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"notbob" wrote in message
...
On 2010-08-25, HeyBub wrote:

to rewire a plug, while 54 per cent did not know how to bleed a
radiator....

I'm thinking, "what the hell is 'bleed a radiator'", not realizing,
for a few seconds, this does not mean a car radiator. I suspect a
large majority of folks in the US haven't a clue about how to bleed a
steam radiator, having never seen one. Are there even radiators west
of the Mississippi?

nb

On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 06:56:14 -0700, Cindy Hamilton wrote:

On Aug 25, 6:50Â*am, ransley wrote:
On Aug 24, 11:23Â*pm, notbob wrote:

On 2010-08-25, HeyBub wrote:

to rewire a plug, while 54 per cent did not know how to bleed a
Â*radiator....

I'm thinking, "what the hell is 'bleed a radiator'", not realizing,
for a few seconds, this does not mean a car radiator. Â*I suspect a
large majority of folks in the US haven't a clue about how to bleed a
steam radiator, having never seen one. Â*Are there even radiators west
of the Mississippi?

They're pretty rare in the Midwest, too, outside of large cities.

The only types I've seen in the US are either big old cast iron ones in
schools etc., or little baseboard things in homes. The latter don't seem
much good for anything really (and lack bleed screws). If I could find a
good local source of the types of panel radiator typically seen in the UK
I'd likely dump the forced-air / electric baseboard setup that we
currently have in the house.

That also accounts for "rewire a plug", I believe. Harry can tell us
whether the U.K. has/hasn't standardized on a single type of plug.

Yes, at least for domestic AC (there are a few different types designed
for less common voltages and currents, but they're not typically seen in
the home. I was quite amazed when I moved to the US just how enormous the
plugs and cables for 220V AC devices are (particularly as they still
don't have a fuse in the plug).

cheers

Jules

On Aug 25, 9:16*am, Jules Richardson
wrote:
On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 06:56:14 -0700, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On Aug 25, 6:50*am, ransley wrote:
On Aug 24, 11:23*pm, notbob wrote:

On 2010-08-25, HeyBub wrote:

to rewire a plug, while 54 per cent did not know how to bleed a
*radiator....

I'm thinking, "what the hell is 'bleed a radiator'", not realizing,
for a few seconds, this does not mean a car radiator. *I suspect a
large majority of folks in the US haven't a clue about how to bleed a
steam radiator, having never seen one. *Are there even radiators west
of the Mississippi?

They're pretty rare in the Midwest, too, outside of large cities.

The only types I've seen in the US are either big old cast iron ones in
schools etc., or little baseboard things in homes.

How about the big old cast iron ones in homes?

The latter don't seem
much good for anything really (and lack bleed screws).

Nope. They have them. You just didn't pay close enough attention.

If I could find a
good local source of the types of panel radiator typically seen in the UK
I'd likely dump the forced-air / electric baseboard setup that we
currently have in the house.

Baseboard hydronic heat is pretty nice (beats the hell out of forced
cold air, a.k.a. heap pump). How about radiant floors?

That also accounts for "rewire a plug", I believe. *Harry can tell us
whether the U.K. has/hasn't standardized on a single type of plug.

Yes, at least for domestic AC (there are a few different types designed
for less common voltages and currents, but they're not typically seen in
the home. I was quite amazed when I moved to the US just how enormous the
plugs and cables for 220V AC devices are (particularly as they still
don't have a fuse in the plug).

240V plugs are the same size as 120V; smaller than yours. 30A and 50A
plugs are naturally larger.

On 8/25/2010 8:04 AM, harry wrote:
On Aug 25, 7:19 am, The Daring
wrote:
On 8/24/2010 11:23 PM, notbob wrote:

On 2010-08-25, wrote:

to rewire a plug, while 54 per cent did not know how to bleed a
radiator....

I'm thinking, "what the hell is 'bleed a radiator'", not realizing,
for a few seconds, this does not mean a car radiator. I suspect a
large majority of folks in the US haven't a clue about how to bleed a
steam radiator, having never seen one. Are there even radiators west
of the Mississippi?

nb

When I was a first grader back in the middle of the last century, the
Catholic Parochial Gulag I was remanded to had steam heat via radiators.
I remember the hissing of the water separator doodad on the side of the
big old silver painted cast iron radiators. It was an old building then
and it had tall ceilings, transom windows, incandescent lights hanging
from the ceiling that had the half silvered big bulbs and of course, no
air conditioning. This was in North East Alabamastan and I don't see
steam except in hospitals and very old buildings, in fact, the steam
plant in downtown Birmingham is scheduled to shut down in 2013 because
of of too few customers. It is supplying steam to the UAB hospital
complex and other institutions in the area so UAB is looking at building
its own plant for $69 million. I have done some work in the basements
of some of the downtown buildings that got their steam from the existing
steam plant and the area around the steam meter was a bit warm. The
steam meter looks a lot like a water meter. There are steam
leeks all under those old buildings and I remember a steam line bursting
on a street a few years ago under a car that cooked the
occupants like lobsters.

http://blog.al.com/businessnews/2010...eam_plant.html

http://preview.tinyurl.com/2wb86ml

TDD

Talking about your university, they gotta be mad these days. In
Europe NOBODY uses steam for distribution, it's being ripped out
everywhere. Anything to do with steam is massively costly to install
and maintain and massively inefficient. They will struggle to find
people who can run this plant too.

They also use it in the various laboratories which are quite numerous
in the area for sterilizing equipment. There is a lot of existing
infrastructure that would cost a great deal. The university has several
chilled water plants to produce chilled water for air conditioning the
hospital and campus buildings. Some years ago I did some work in one
of the plants. It's quite interesting to see 4,000 ton compressors
and cooling tower fan blades that look like something off a C-130
cargo plane. Lots of really big stuff running off 4,160 volt three
phase power.

TDD

On Aug 25, 8:56*am, keith wrote:
On Aug 25, 8:44*am, hibb wrote:



On Aug 24, 8:47*pm, "HeyBub" wrote:

"More than half of young people lack the skills they need to maintain their
homes, with many relying on their parents to carry out basic tasks, a survey
suggested today.
"Around 50 per cent of people aged under 35 admitted they did not know how
to rewire a plug, while 54 per cent did not know how to bleed a radiator and
63 per cent said they would not attempt to put up wallpaper, according to
Halifax Home Insurance."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...likely-youre-3....

Or, in the current market, if a faucet starts dripping, walk away from your
home and buy another.

When I first became a home owner I knew nothing about how to repair
stuff. It took a long time but now, after 30+ years of living in this
house, I feel I can repair almost anything.

Pretty much, but for me it's four houses. *There is stuff I won't do,
but not because they're too complicated.

Kind of like I never knew much about repairing computers until I
bought a Packard Bell back in the 80's.

Never had any qualms about diving into them, but it's what I do. *;-)

Yes, there's stuff I won't do either. Roofing the second floor with a
steep pitch is one.

My point about the computers is that owning a Packard Bell forced you
to learn how to deal with computer problems even if you weren't so
inclined.

You never see kids messing with cars anymore.

A lot of them don't drive until 18 or older now as well.

On Aug 25, 2:56*pm, Cindy Hamilton
wrote:
On Aug 25, 6:50*am, ransley wrote:

On Aug 24, 11:23*pm, notbob wrote:

On 2010-08-25, HeyBub wrote:

to rewire a plug, while 54 per cent did not know how to bleed a
*radiator....

I'm thinking, "what the hell is 'bleed a radiator'", not realizing,
for a few seconds, this does not mean a car radiator. *I suspect a
large majority of folks in the US haven't a clue about how to bleed a
steam radiator, having never seen one. *Are there even radiators west
of the Mississippi?

They're pretty rare in the Midwest, too, outside of large cities.

nb

its the UK, cooler temps and all HW radiator heating.

That also accounts for "rewire a plug", I believe. *Harry can tell
us whether the U.K. has/hasn't standardized on a single
type of plug.

Cindy Hamilton

Our plug is standardised.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/13-amp_plug
The voltage is 240 volts, no120 volts here except on construction
sites.
That means you can take just over 3Kw from any socket. They are wired
in a ring main. There is a fuse in the plug sized to suit the
appliance.
New appliances come with a moulded on socket these days which probably
accounts for nobody knowing how to wire a plug. You can still buy
plugs to fit yourself. I have a whole bunch of them, I cut them off
any appliance I throw out. We've had this sytem for about fifty
years. From time to time the f**** EU wants us to change to their
inferior system.

On Aug 25, 5:04*pm, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
On 8/25/2010 8:04 AM, harry wrote:





On Aug 25, 7:19 am, The Daring
wrote:
On 8/24/2010 11:23 PM, notbob wrote:

On 2010-08-25, * *wrote:

to rewire a plug, while 54 per cent did not know how to bleed a
* *radiator....

I'm thinking, "what the hell is 'bleed a radiator'", not realizing,
for a few seconds, this does not mean a car radiator. *I suspect a
large majority of folks in the US haven't a clue about how to bleed a
steam radiator, having never seen one. *Are there even radiators west
of the Mississippi?

nb

When I was a first grader back in the middle of the last century, the
Catholic Parochial Gulag I was remanded to had steam heat via radiators.
I remember the hissing of the water separator doodad on the side of the
big old silver painted cast iron radiators. It was an old building then
and it had tall ceilings, transom windows, incandescent lights hanging
from the ceiling that had the half silvered big bulbs and of course, no
air conditioning. This was in North East Alabamastan and I don't see
steam except in hospitals and very old buildings, in fact, the steam
plant in downtown Birmingham is scheduled to shut down in 2013 because
of of too few customers. It is supplying steam to the UAB hospital
complex and other institutions in the area so UAB is looking at building
its own plant for $69 million. I have done some work in the basements
of some of the downtown buildings that got their steam from the existing
steam plant and the area around the steam meter was a bit warm. The
steam meter looks a lot like a water meter. There are steam
leeks all under those old buildings and I remember a steam line bursting
on a street a few years ago under a car that cooked the
occupants like lobsters.

http://blog.al.com/businessnews/2010...eam_plant.html

http://preview.tinyurl.com/2wb86ml

TDD

Talking about your university, they gotta be mad these days. *In
Europe NOBODY uses steam for distribution, it's being ripped out
everywhere. *Anything to do with steam is massively costly to install
and maintain and massively inefficient. * They will struggle to find
people who can run this plant too.

They also use it in the various laboratories which are quite numerous
in the area for sterilizing equipment. There is a lot of existing
infrastructure that would cost a great deal. The university has several
chilled water plants to produce chilled water for air conditioning the
hospital and campus buildings. Some years ago I did some work in one
of the plants. It's quite interesting to see 4,000 ton compressors
and cooling tower fan blades that look like something off a C-130
cargo plane. Lots of really big stuff running off 4,160 volt three
phase power.

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I was well into steam sterilisers. We used to have lots of big ones
in the pharmacy and for sterilising fabrics and surgical instrument
etc. However it became cheaper to buy stuff in and a lot of stuff
became disposable. There was a big debate on prions (mad cow disease)
as to whether they could survive the steam autoclave cycle or not.
Anyway the remaining autoclaves had a steam generator built in or
adjacent.
We had cold water generators for AC. At one place we had steam
powered refrigeration. The steam was a byproduct. Again, very
inefficient, we only ran it because the steam would have been dumped
anyway. We shut the lot down and saved a fortune in energy costs.

On Aug 25, 3:03*pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
You don't bleed steam radiators, silly. You bleed hydrionic ones. I
lived for about ten years in a house with hydrionic heat system.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
*www.lds.org
.

"notbob" wrote in message

...
On 2010-08-25, HeyBub wrote:

to rewire a plug, while 54 per cent did not know how to bleed a
*radiator....

I'm thinking, "what the hell is 'bleed a radiator'", not realizing,
for a few seconds, this does not mean a car radiator. *I suspect a
large majority of folks in the US haven't a clue about how to bleed a
steam radiator, having never seen one. *Are there even radiators west
of the Mississippi?

nb

You can get air trapped in a badly designed steam radiator system.
There are a few weird ideas been in extent for steam heating in the
past.

On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 04:46:19 -0400, aemeijers wrote:

wrote:
On Tue, 24 Aug 2010 22:47:13 -0400, aemeijers
wrote:

HeyBub wrote:
"More than half of young people lack the skills they need to maintain
their homes, with many relying on their parents to carry out basic
tasks, a survey suggested today.
"Around 50 per cent of people aged under 35 admitted they did not
know how to rewire a plug, while 54 per cent did not know how to
bleed a radiator and 63 per cent said they would not attempt to put
up wallpaper, according to Halifax Home Insurance."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...Do-Not-likely-
youre-35--Survey-finds-young-people-DIY-dunces-rewire-plug.html?
ITO=1490#ixzz0xZu365qC

Or, in the current market, if a faucet starts dripping, walk away
from your home and buy another.


I have advocated for years that HS junior or senior year needed a
course called 'stuff you need to know in the real world'. One semester
of stuff like how to own and operate a checking account/credit card,
get a consumer loan, not get bent over at the car dealer, etc. The
other semester of basic mechanical and home repair tasks, like how to
change a tire, how to check oil, how to not get bent over at the
repair shop, how to do basic household repairs, and how to know when
to attempt it yourself vs. when you should call a tradesman (and not
get bent over by him either.)

Well, parents obviously ain't passing on these skill sets any more,
assuming they ever had them.


They used to call that "shop" and "home EC"

Perhaps in your part of the world. In the schools I attended, Home Ec
was cooking and sewing, and shop was Wood Shop and Metal Shop.

Home ec was the same at mine, although we had separate "design and
communication" (the bit where you got to draw house plans) and "design
and realisation" (the bit where you got to make towel hooks and cut your
fingers off) courses - and I'm not sure if "shop" was ever really in use
in UK schools.

(in all seriousness, I think the first time I heard 'shop' I assumed it
was some sort of business course to do with buying and selling things :-)

cheers

Jules

On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 08:17:16 -0700, keith wrote:
The only types I've seen in the US are either big old cast iron ones in
schools etc., or little baseboard things in homes.

How about the big old cast iron ones in homes?

Never seen them, myself. I'm sure they exist (I'd love to find some of
them, too - had them at the last place I worked for. Terrible to paint,
but they look nice :-)

The latter don't seem
much good for anything really (and lack bleed screws).

Nope. They have them. You just didn't pay close enough attention.

Ours* certainly don't - there's one by my feet right now. Just pipes and
fins beneath a cover (I took the cover off to take a look).

* we've got a few, but no longer hooked up to anything - I'll get around
to pulling them out one day.


If I could find a
good local source of the types of panel radiator typically seen in the
UK I'd likely dump the forced-air / electric baseboard setup that we
currently have in the house.

Baseboard hydronic heat is pretty nice (beats the hell out of forced
cold air, a.k.a. heap pump). How about radiant floors?

I'm not a fan of forced air systems either - they don't seem particularly
efficient or per-zone controllable, and there's all that bulky duct-work
to mess around with (I can sort of see the attraction if you're living in
an area that also benefits from AC, I suppose)

Heard lots of good things about radiant floors, but I don't think I've
ever experienced one in use, so can't comment on how accurate the reports
are.

That also accounts for "rewire a plug", I believe. Â*Harry can tell us
whether the U.K. has/hasn't standardized on a single type of plug.

Yes, at least for domestic AC (there are a few different types designed
for less common voltages and currents, but they're not typically seen
in the home. I was quite amazed when I moved to the US just how
enormous the plugs and cables for 220V AC devices are (particularly as
they still don't have a fuse in the plug).

240V plugs are the same size as 120V; smaller than yours.

I don't recall ever seeing a 240V plug in the US that was the same size
as a 120V one - I'll have to take a better look around! (particularly as
I have a few low-power 240V things to ship over from the UK some day)

cheers

Jules

On Aug 25, 2:19*pm, Jules Richardson
wrote:
On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 08:17:16 -0700, keith wrote:
The only types I've seen in the US are either big old cast iron ones in
schools etc., or little baseboard things in homes.

How about the big old cast iron ones in homes?

Never seen them, myself. I'm sure they exist (I'd love to find some of
them, too - had them at the last place I worked for. Terrible to paint,
but they look nice :-)

You'll find them in a lot of older homes, often with steam heat rather
than a hydronic system. Some have been converted to hydronic,
though. They're expensive as well as taking a lot of prime floor
space.

The latter don't seem
much good for anything really (and lack bleed screws).

Nope. *They have them. *You just didn't pay close enough attention.

Ours* certainly don't - there's one by my feet right now. Just pipes and
fins beneath a cover (I took the cover off to take a look).

They were installed by a moron, then. Ours had a bleed valve on each
unit, as part of the automatic bleeder (which never worked).

* we've got a few, but no longer hooked up to anything - I'll get around
to pulling them out one day.

There should be a screw in one end.

If I could find a
good local source of the types of panel radiator typically seen in the
UK I'd likely dump the forced-air / electric baseboard setup that we
currently have in the house.

Baseboard hydronic heat is pretty nice (beats the hell out of forced
cold air, a.k.a. heap pump). *How about radiant floors?

I'm not a fan of forced air systems either - they don't seem particularly
efficient or per-zone controllable, and there's all that bulky duct-work
to mess around with (I can sort of see the attraction if you're living in
an area that also benefits from AC, I suppose)

It's cheap (installation), too. Baseboard electric is even cheaper.
We use AC more days than heat, so yes, there is an advantage to heat
pumps here. It's crappy heat, though.

Heard lots of good things about radiant floors, but I don't think I've
ever experienced one in use, so can't comment on how accurate the reports
are.

It's very nice in tiled bathrooms. ;-) Radiant ceiling heat is
useless, though.

That also accounts for "rewire a plug", I believe. *Harry can tell us
whether the U.K. has/hasn't standardized on a single type of plug.

Yes, at least for domestic AC (there are a few different types designed
for less common voltages and currents, but they're not typically seen
in the home. I was quite amazed when I moved to the US just how
enormous the plugs and cables for 220V AC devices are (particularly as
they still don't have a fuse in the plug).

240V plugs are the same size as 120V; smaller than yours.

I don't recall ever seeing a 240V plug in the US that was the same size
as a 120V one - I'll have to take a better look around! (particularly as
I have a few low-power 240V things to ship over from the UK some day)

240V plugs are very similar to the 120V-20A plug, with the opposite
pin, or both, rotated. Clothes dryers and ranges have larger plugs
(30A or 50A). The smaller ones are often found on window or through-
the-wall air conditioners. Places were 120V 15A isn't enough.

15A 120V:
http://www.levitonproducts.com/catal...20A&pid=1 208

20A 120V plug:
http://www.levitonproducts.com/catal...20 A&pid=1208

20A 120V outlet:
http://www.levitonproducts.com/catal...20A&pid= 1208

15A 240V:
http://www.levitonproducts.com/catal...20 A&pid=1208

20A 240V:
http://www.levitonproducts.com/catal...20 A&pid=1208

On Aug 25, 11:10*am, hibb wrote:
On Aug 25, 8:56*am, keith wrote:



On Aug 25, 8:44*am, hibb wrote:

On Aug 24, 8:47*pm, "HeyBub" wrote:

"More than half of young people lack the skills they need to maintain their
homes, with many relying on their parents to carry out basic tasks, a survey
suggested today.
"Around 50 per cent of people aged under 35 admitted they did not know how
to rewire a plug, while 54 per cent did not know how to bleed a radiator and
63 per cent said they would not attempt to put up wallpaper, according to
Halifax Home Insurance."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...likely-youre-3...

Or, in the current market, if a faucet starts dripping, walk away from your
home and buy another.

When I first became a home owner I knew nothing about how to repair
stuff. It took a long time but now, after 30+ years of living in this
house, I feel I can repair almost anything.

Pretty much, but for me it's four houses. *There is stuff I won't do,
but not because they're too complicated.

Kind of like I never knew much about repairing computers until I
bought a Packard Bell back in the 80's.

Never had any qualms about diving into them, but it's what I do. *;-)

Yes, there's stuff I won't do either. Roofing the second floor with a
steep pitch is one.

That's the one I was thinking about. One floor with a low pitch,
either. Done it - never again. ;-)

My point about the computers is that owning a Packard Bell forced you
to learn how to deal with computer problems even if you weren't so
inclined.

Understood. I have always been so inclined, so became an
engineer. ;-)

On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 09:50:01 -0700 (PDT), zzyzzx
wrote:

You never see kids messing with cars anymore.

A lot of them don't drive until 18 or older now as well.

Sounds like Zzyzzx, CA.

In Florida at 12 I had a work permit, 14 I drove in the day time
alone. Took sister on night drives, because she was 16.

On, I bought my own car at 14 years of age.

On 8/25/2010 12:08 PM, harry wrote:
On Aug 25, 5:04 pm, The Daring
wrote:
On 8/25/2010 8:04 AM, harry wrote:





On Aug 25, 7:19 am, The Daring
wrote:
On 8/24/2010 11:23 PM, notbob wrote:

On 2010-08-25, wrote:

to rewire a plug, while 54 per cent did not know how to bleed a
radiator....

I'm thinking, "what the hell is 'bleed a radiator'", not realizing,
for a few seconds, this does not mean a car radiator. I suspect a
large majority of folks in the US haven't a clue about how to bleed a
steam radiator, having never seen one. Are there even radiators west
of the Mississippi?

nb

When I was a first grader back in the middle of the last century, the
Catholic Parochial Gulag I was remanded to had steam heat via radiators.
I remember the hissing of the water separator doodad on the side of the
big old silver painted cast iron radiators. It was an old building then
and it had tall ceilings, transom windows, incandescent lights hanging
from the ceiling that had the half silvered big bulbs and of course, no
air conditioning. This was in North East Alabamastan and I don't see
steam except in hospitals and very old buildings, in fact, the steam
plant in downtown Birmingham is scheduled to shut down in 2013 because
of of too few customers. It is supplying steam to the UAB hospital
complex and other institutions in the area so UAB is looking at building
its own plant for $69 million. I have done some work in the basements
of some of the downtown buildings that got their steam from the existing
steam plant and the area around the steam meter was a bit warm. The
steam meter looks a lot like a water meter. There are steam
leeks all under those old buildings and I remember a steam line bursting
on a street a few years ago under a car that cooked the
occupants like lobsters.

http://blog.al.com/businessnews/2010...eam_plant.html

http://preview.tinyurl.com/2wb86ml

TDD

Talking about your university, they gotta be mad these days. In
Europe NOBODY uses steam for distribution, it's being ripped out
everywhere. Anything to do with steam is massively costly to install
and maintain and massively inefficient. They will struggle to find
people who can run this plant too.

They also use it in the various laboratories which are quite numerous
in the area for sterilizing equipment. There is a lot of existing
infrastructure that would cost a great deal. The university has several
chilled water plants to produce chilled water for air conditioning the
hospital and campus buildings. Some years ago I did some work in one
of the plants. It's quite interesting to see 4,000 ton compressors
and cooling tower fan blades that look like something off a C-130
cargo plane. Lots of really big stuff running off 4,160 volt three
phase power.

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I was well into steam sterilisers. We used to have lots of big ones
in the pharmacy and for sterilising fabrics and surgical instrument
etc. However it became cheaper to buy stuff in and a lot of stuff
became disposable. There was a big debate on prions (mad cow disease)
as to whether they could survive the steam autoclave cycle or not.
Anyway the remaining autoclaves had a steam generator built in or
adjacent.
We had cold water generators for AC. At one place we had steam
powered refrigeration. The steam was a byproduct. Again, very
inefficient, we only ran it because the steam would have been dumped
anyway. We shut the lot down and saved a fortune in energy costs.

I can't address the efficiency of their systems because it's outside
my work experience. Steam isn't used for heat in the majority of homes
and businesses here in the Southeast. Many years ago it was common
but the only boilers I've regularly worked on have been at dry cleaning
plants, it's rare for me to fiddle with a boiler used for heating a
home or business. I do seem to recall working on a boiler control
system at an old apartment building some 20 years ago and I've worked
on some hydronic heating systems but it's rare me.

TDD

"HeyBub" wrote in
:

"More than half of young people lack the skills they need to maintain
their homes, with many relying on their parents to carry out basic
tasks, a survey suggested today.
"Around 50 per cent of people aged under 35 admitted they did not know
how to rewire a plug, while 54 per cent did not know how to bleed a
radiator and 63 per cent said they would not attempt to put up
wallpaper, according to Halifax Home Insurance."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...kely-youre-35-
-Survey-finds-young-people-DIY-dunces-rewire-plug.html?ITO=1490#ixzz0xZ
u365qC

Or, in the current market, if a faucet starts dripping, walk away from
your home and buy another.



And pulling numbers outta my ass I'd say 90% can't make change unless the
register calculates it and maybe 80% can't figure out quarter to the hour
on an analog clock.

On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 14:06:40 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 09:50:01 -0700 (PDT), zzyzzx
wrote:

You never see kids messing with cars anymore.

A lot of them don't drive until 18 or older now as well.

My son didn't drive until he was 18; no interest. I had to get him off is
butt when my wife got sick and couldn't drive for six months. Taking her both
to and from work got to be a big problem with my work schedule.

Sounds like Zzyzzx, CA.

In Florida at 12 I had a work permit, 14 I drove in the day time
alone. Took sister on night drives, because she was 16.

On, I bought my own car at 14 years of age.

But you weren't born last night. ;-)

On Aug 24, 10:47*pm, aemeijers wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
"More than half of young people lack the skills they need to maintain their
homes, with many relying on their parents to carry out basic tasks, a survey
suggested today.
"Around 50 per cent of people aged under 35 admitted they did not know how
to rewire a plug, while 54 per cent did not know how to bleed a radiator and
63 per cent said they would not attempt to put up wallpaper, according to
Halifax Home Insurance."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...likely-youre-3...

Or, in the current market, if a faucet starts dripping, walk away from your
home and buy another.

* I have advocated for years that HS junior or senior year needed a
course called 'stuff you need to know in the real world'. One semester
of stuff like how to own and operate a checking account/credit card, get
a consumer loan, not get bent over at the car dealer, etc. The other
semester of basic mechanical and home repair tasks, like how to change a
tire, how to check oil, how to not get bent over at the repair shop, how
to do basic household repairs, and how to know when to attempt it
yourself vs. when you should call a tradesman (and not get bent over by
him either.)

Well, parents obviously ain't passing on these skill sets any more,
assuming they ever had them.

--
aem sends....

"Well, parents obviously ain't passing on these skill sets any
more, assuming they ever had them."

Hey, kindly throw the word "some" before "parents" in your statement.

My sons know how to do lots of that stuff, and mostly because of me.

One is better than the other (has more desire - and his own apartment)
but they both know the basics plus.

DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Aug 24, 10:47 pm, aemeijers wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
"More than half of young people lack the skills they need to maintain their
homes, with many relying on their parents to carry out basic tasks, a survey
suggested today.
"Around 50 per cent of people aged under 35 admitted they did not know how
to rewire a plug, while 54 per cent did not know how to bleed a radiator and
63 per cent said they would not attempt to put up wallpaper, according to
Halifax Home Insurance."
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...likely-youre-3...
Or, in the current market, if a faucet starts dripping, walk away from your
home and buy another.
I have advocated for years that HS junior or senior year needed a
course called 'stuff you need to know in the real world'. One semester
of stuff like how to own and operate a checking account/credit card, get
a consumer loan, not get bent over at the car dealer, etc. The other
semester of basic mechanical and home repair tasks, like how to change a
tire, how to check oil, how to not get bent over at the repair shop, how
to do basic household repairs, and how to know when to attempt it
yourself vs. when you should call a tradesman (and not get bent over by
him either.)

Well, parents obviously ain't passing on these skill sets any more,
assuming they ever had them.

--
aem sends....

"Well, parents obviously ain't passing on these skill sets any
more, assuming they ever had them."

Hey, kindly throw the word "some" before "parents" in your statement.

My sons know how to do lots of that stuff, and mostly because of me.

One is better than the other (has more desire - and his own apartment)
but they both know the basics plus.


I was, of course, referring to the unwashed masses out there, not the
AHR regulars. I should have made that clear.
:^/

--
aem sends...

On Tue, 24 Aug 2010 22:47:13 -0400, aemeijers wrote:
I have advocated for years that HS junior or senior year needed a
course called 'stuff you need to know in the real world'. One semester
of stuff like how to own and operate a checking account/credit card, get
a consumer loan, not get bent over at the car dealer, etc. The other

Better yet would be to learn how to acquire such knowledge.

On Aug 25, 8:19*pm, Jules Richardson
wrote:
On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 08:17:16 -0700, keith wrote:
The only types I've seen in the US are either big old cast iron ones in
schools etc., or little baseboard things in homes.

How about the big old cast iron ones in homes?

Never seen them, myself. I'm sure they exist (I'd love to find some of
them, too - had them at the last place I worked for. Terrible to paint,
but they look nice :-)

The latter don't seem
much good for anything really (and lack bleed screws).

Nope. *They have them. *You just didn't pay close enough attention.

Ours* certainly don't - there's one by my feet right now. Just pipes and
fins beneath a cover (I took the cover off to take a look).

* we've got a few, but no longer hooked up to anything - I'll get around
to pulling them out one day.



If I could find a
good local source of the types of panel radiator typically seen in the
UK I'd likely dump the forced-air / electric baseboard setup that we
currently have in the house.

Baseboard hydronic heat is pretty nice (beats the hell out of forced
cold air, a.k.a. heap pump). *How about radiant floors?

I'm not a fan of forced air systems either - they don't seem particularly
efficient or per-zone controllable, and there's all that bulky duct-work
to mess around with (I can sort of see the attraction if you're living in
an area that also benefits from AC, I suppose)

Heard lots of good things about radiant floors, but I don't think I've
ever experienced one in use, so can't comment on how accurate the reports
are.

That also accounts for "rewire a plug", I believe. *Harry can tell us
whether the U.K. has/hasn't standardized on a single type of plug.

Yes, at least for domestic AC (there are a few different types designed
for less common voltages and currents, but they're not typically seen
in the home. I was quite amazed when I moved to the US just how
enormous the plugs and cables for 220V AC devices are (particularly as
they still don't have a fuse in the plug).

240V plugs are the same size as 120V; smaller than yours.

I don't recall ever seeing a 240V plug in the US that was the same size
as a 120V one - I'll have to take a better look around! (particularly as
I have a few low-power 240V things to ship over from the UK some day)

cheers

Jules

Floor heating is the norm here for new houses for the last fifteen
years or so. (Plastic pipes embedded in the floor screed. There
were initial problems but now it's sorted out.
Previously it was radiators but they are ugly and take up wall space.
The water in them is at low temperature which is ideal for condensing
boilers.
All All new boilers here are condensing, efficiencies can be over
100% (which sounds mad) if the water temperatures are low enough.
Occasionally you saw air heating sytems with air ducts etc, but it
never caught on over here for the reasons mentioned above.
Also it's about the most inefficient system possible. It's only
saving grace is that the same system can be used for cooling as well
as heating.

On Aug 25, 9:55*pm, keith wrote:
On Aug 25, 2:19*pm, Jules Richardson

wrote:
On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 08:17:16 -0700, keith wrote:
The only types I've seen in the US are either big old cast iron ones in
schools etc., or little baseboard things in homes.

How about the big old cast iron ones in homes?

Never seen them, myself. I'm sure they exist (I'd love to find some of
them, too - had them at the last place I worked for. Terrible to paint,
but they look nice :-)

You'll find them in a lot of older homes, often with steam heat rather
than a hydronic system. *Some have been converted to hydronic,
though. *They're expensive as well as taking a lot of prime floor
space.

The latter don't seem
much good for anything really (and lack bleed screws).

Nope. *They have them. *You just didn't pay close enough attention.