In previous projects I really haven't had the need to dry assemble a
bunch of fittings to get the alignment right and make sure it would
all work before gluing. In the case of some recent work with 2" PVC
I had pipes making a tight 180 turn and together with a 3 way valve,
it all has to align just right with the existing piping in a short
distance with no wiggle room.

So, I put the pipes and fittings together dry first, to make sure they
aligned OK. But there were two problems:

1 - It was very hard to get the dry pipe to bottom in the sockets of
the fittings

2 - It was even harder to then pull them apart.

I tried using some dish washing soap, but it didn't help much. Which
got me to wondering if there are any tricks the pros use?

wrote in message
...
In previous projects I really haven't had the need to dry assemble a
bunch of fittings to get the alignment right and make sure it would
all work before gluing. In the case of some recent work with 2"
PVC
I had pipes making a tight 180 turn and together with a 3 way valve,
it all has to align just right with the existing piping in a short
distance with no wiggle room.

So, I put the pipes and fittings together dry first, to make sure
they
aligned OK. But there were two problems:

1 - It was very hard to get the dry pipe to bottom in the sockets of
the fittings

2 - It was even harder to then pull them apart.

I tried using some dish washing soap, but it didn't help much.
Which
got me to wondering if there are any tricks the pros use?

Seems I remember someone long ago saying they used talcum powder. I'd
try just one joint first though.
--
Careful how you respond. I have people!

JC

On Aug 4, 1:58*pm, wrote:
In previous projects I really haven't had the need to dry assemble a
bunch of fittings to get the alignment right and make sure it would
all work before gluing. * In the case of some recent work with 2" PVC
I had pipes making a tight 180 turn and together with a 3 way valve,
it all has to align just right with the existing piping in a short
distance with no wiggle room.

So, I put the pipes and fittings together dry first, to make sure they
aligned OK. * But there were two problems:

1 - It was very hard to get the dry pipe to bottom in the sockets of
the fittings

2 - It was even harder to then pull them apart.

I tried using some dish washing soap, but it didn't help much. * Which
got me to wondering if there are any tricks the pros use?

I have the same trouble. I do a little at a time rather than trying
to dry fit an entire line. Sometimes I make some marks on nearby
things as to where turns and valves and such have to end up.

On Aug 4, 12:58*pm, wrote:
In previous projects I really haven't had the need to dry assemble a
bunch of fittings to get the alignment right and make sure it would
all work before gluing. * In the case of some recent work with 2" PVC
I had pipes making a tight 180 turn and together with a 3 way valve,
it all has to align just right with the existing piping in a short
distance with no wiggle room.

So, I put the pipes and fittings together dry first, to make sure they
aligned OK. * But there were two problems:

1 - It was very hard to get the dry pipe to bottom in the sockets of
the fittings

2 - It was even harder to then pull them apart.

I tried using some dish washing soap, but it didn't help much. * Which
got me to wondering if there are any tricks the pros use?

Newer PVC seems to have more of the tight fit problem than I can
recall from past projects. Nowadays I routinely use regular machine
shop type sanding strips to get a decent moveable fit. With the
heavily bodied cements (resin containing) being used it should make no
difference at all in mechanical integrity. Haven't had any leakers,
ever, in doing this. Using sanding strips makes it less likely to make
a dumb mistake such as making a groove with a flat file that could
leak.

Joe

wrote:
....

I tried using some dish washing soap, but it didn't help much. Which
got me to wondering if there are any tricks the pros use?

The biggest "trick" I think the pro has is the experience and practice
such that can make stuff fit properly simply by measuring lengths
minimizing the need for nearly as much dry fitting as we diy'ers.

My general approach to a similar situation tends to be to do one joint
at a time so to minimize the accumulated measurements required and then
the last assembly generally isn't bad. Any given situation can lead to
peculiar issues, of course that might make more trials a useful exercise.

$0.02, etc., ...

On Aug 4, 2:23*pm, dpb wrote:
wrote:

...

I tried using some dish washing soap, but it didn't help much. * Which
got me to wondering if there are any tricks the pros use?

The biggest "trick" I think the pro has is the experience and practice
such that can make stuff fit properly simply by measuring lengths
minimizing the need for nearly as much dry fitting as we diy'ers.

My general approach to a similar situation tends to be to do one joint
at a time so to minimize the accumulated measurements required and then
the last assembly generally isn't bad. *Any given situation can lead to
peculiar issues, of course that might make more trials a useful exercise.

$0.02, etc., ...


The problem with one joint at a time is that if an earlier joint has a
freedom of movement that affects the positioning of a fitting that is
coming 3 connections later, if it it gets set at the wrong angle you
then can't make the last connection. Which is why I needed to dry
fit several fittings and short lengths of pipe simultaneously.

On Aug 4, 2:35*pm, wrote:
On Aug 4, 2:23*pm, dpb wrote:



wrote:

...

I tried using some dish washing soap, but it didn't help much. * Which
got me to wondering if there are any tricks the pros use?

The biggest "trick" I think the pro has is the experience and practice
such that can make stuff fit properly simply by measuring lengths
minimizing the need for nearly as much dry fitting as we diy'ers.

My general approach to a similar situation tends to be to do one joint
at a time so to minimize the accumulated measurements required and then
the last assembly generally isn't bad. *Any given situation can lead to
peculiar issues, of course that might make more trials a useful exercise.

$0.02, etc., ...

The problem with one joint at a time is that if an earlier joint has a
freedom of movement that affects the positioning of a fitting that is
coming 3 connections later, if it it gets set at the wrong angle you
then can't make the last connection. * Which is why I needed to dry
fit several fittings and short lengths of pipe simultaneously.

Ain't those situations fun? I've had to create some new swear words -
like Ralphie's dad in A Christmas Story. I use a Sharpie to make some
alignment marks on each joint, and then glue pieces up into assemblies
and then glue up assemblies. I don't know how critical it is to have
the joint bottomed out. Preferable? Sure, but I don't think it
affects things too much. When I've cut into other people's work I've
found substantial gaps where the pipe didn't bottom out in the
fitting, but that didn't seem to create any problems with drainage.

R

On Aug 4, 10:58*am, wrote:
In previous projects I really haven't had the need to dry assemble a
bunch of fittings to get the alignment right and make sure it would
all work before gluing. * In the case of some recent work with 2" PVC
I had pipes making a tight 180 turn and together with a 3 way valve,
it all has to align just right with the existing piping in a short
distance with no wiggle room.

So, I put the pipes and fittings together dry first, to make sure they
aligned OK. * But there were two problems:

1 - It was very hard to get the dry pipe to bottom in the sockets of
the fittings

2 - It was even harder to then pull them apart.

I tried using some dish washing soap, but it didn't help much. * Which
got me to wondering if there are any tricks the pros use?

PVC pipe / fittings are not meant to completely dry fit to the same
depth as when doing the final glue up.

On the solvent glue cans, the instructions often note that dry fitting
should result in insertions 1/2 to 1/3 less than full depth.

The solvent action of the glue allows the pipe and the fitting to
"mush" together.

but back to your original question....

The fittings are not meant to be dry fit completely.
If you need to get things to fit up exactly correctly, sequence your
assembly and measure the socket depths.
Using primer & glue you should be able to get the pipes to completely
bottom.

Marking pipes & fittings so that desired orientation is maintained can
be helpful.

cheers
Bob

On Aug 4, 3:05*pm, RicodJour wrote:
I don't know how critical it is to have
the joint bottomed out. *Preferable? Sure, but I don't think it
affects things too much.

His concern was that if he carefully measures and dry-fits everything,
then when he applies the solvent the lengths will change and the
assembly will be FUBAR.

Try using pvc primer/cleaner as a lubricant?
wrote in message
...
In previous projects I really haven't had the need to dry assemble a
bunch of fittings to get the alignment right and make sure it would
all work before gluing. In the case of some recent work with 2" PVC
I had pipes making a tight 180 turn and together with a 3 way valve,
it all has to align just right with the existing piping in a short
distance with no wiggle room.

So, I put the pipes and fittings together dry first, to make sure they
aligned OK. But there were two problems:

1 - It was very hard to get the dry pipe to bottom in the sockets of
the fittings

2 - It was even harder to then pull them apart.

I tried using some dish washing soap, but it didn't help much. Which
got me to wondering if there are any tricks the pros use?

On Aug 4, 9:36*pm, Larry Fishel wrote:
On Aug 4, 3:05*pm, RicodJour wrote:

I don't know how critical it is to have
the joint bottomed out. *Preferable? Sure, but I don't think it
affects things too much.

His concern was that if he carefully measures and dry-fits everything,
then when he applies the solvent the lengths will change and the
assembly will be FUBAR.

The alignment marks have markings for rotation angle and depth, at
least that's the way I do it.

R

In article , Larry Fishel wrote:
On Aug 4, 3:05=A0pm, RicodJour wrote:
I don't know how critical it is to have
the joint bottomed out. =A0Preferable? Sure, but I don't think it
affects things too much.

His concern was that if he carefully measures and dry-fits everything,
then when he applies the solvent the lengths will change and the
assembly will be FUBAR.

That's why you should carefully measure and *not* attempt to dry-fit. Measure
to the bottom of the seat in each fitting, because that's where the pipe is
going to wind up when the solvent is applied and the joint is made properly.
Trying to dry-fit plastic pipe is an exercise in futility: the pipes *never*
bottom in the fittings, so there's no way that the final assembly (with
solvent, and hence with the pipes bottomed) will be the same size as the
dry-fit size.

In article , "don &/or Lucille" wrote:
Try using pvc primer/cleaner as a lubricant?

Uhhh.... no. No. NO!

Please don't attempt to give advice on subjects you know nothing about. The
primer/cleaner makes the pipe sticky, not slippery. No way will it work as a
lubricant. Good grief.

Please don't top-post, either.


wrote in message
...
In previous projects I really haven't had the need to dry assemble a
bunch of fittings to get the alignment right and make sure it would
all work before gluing. In the case of some recent work with 2" PVC
I had pipes making a tight 180 turn and together with a 3 way valve,
it all has to align just right with the existing piping in a short
distance with no wiggle room.

So, I put the pipes and fittings together dry first, to make sure they
aligned OK. But there were two problems:

1 - It was very hard to get the dry pipe to bottom in the sockets of
the fittings

2 - It was even harder to then pull them apart.

I tried using some dish washing soap, but it didn't help much. Which
got me to wondering if there are any tricks the pros use?

don &/or Lucille wrote:
Try using pvc primer/cleaner as a lubricant?
wrote in message
...
In previous projects I really haven't had the need to dry assemble a
bunch of fittings to get the alignment right and make sure it would
all work before gluing. In the case of some recent work with 2" PVC
I had pipes making a tight 180 turn and together with a 3 way valve,
it all has to align just right with the existing piping in a short
distance with no wiggle room.

So, I put the pipes and fittings together dry first, to make sure they
aligned OK. But there were two problems:

1 - It was very hard to get the dry pipe to bottom in the sockets of
the fittings

2 - It was even harder to then pull them apart.

I tried using some dish washing soap, but it didn't help much. Which
got me to wondering if there are any tricks the pros use?



Deburr (and maybe even chamfer like a dowel) the hell out of square-cut
ends, is the one plumbers always told me. The 'slip fit' for new pipe
and new couplings is pretty tight anyway. One burr or non-square end cut
can make the dry-fit a case of pounding an oval peg into a round hole,
if the approach angle is slightly off 90 degrees. Even more so when you
are using glue with a very short open time. This is why ground assembly,
and making as absolutely few joints in the air as possible, is the best
approach for DIYs. My BIL did some feeds, drains and vents for his
washing machine move that look like something out of Rube Goldberg, to
get all the runs to line up. Too bad about the stud and plate that used
to be there. He would have been better off cutting the whole mess back
about 15 feet, and starting over. (What can I say- he is a college
professor with a green thumb, and a nice guy, but he is no DIY. But my
SWMBO sister will not be denied.)

--
aem sends...

In article
,
wrote:

In previous projects I really haven't had the need to dry assemble a
bunch of fittings to get the alignment right and make sure it would
all work before gluing. In the case of some recent work with 2" PVC
I had pipes making a tight 180 turn and together with a 3 way valve,
it all has to align just right with the existing piping in a short
distance with no wiggle room.

So, I put the pipes and fittings together dry first, to make sure they
aligned OK. But there were two problems:

1 - It was very hard to get the dry pipe to bottom in the sockets of
the fittings

2 - It was even harder to then pull them apart.

I tried using some dish washing soap, but it didn't help much. Which
got me to wondering if there are any tricks the pros use?

Never actually tried it, but I've often thought that making some
loose-fit test couplings would be useful. PVC is cheap, just buy some
extra fittings and bore them out enough so that the pipe can bottom out
dry. Maybe spray paint the outside red so you don't accidentally use
them in the final assembly.

Another thing I've done once or twice to solve the problem of making
that last parallel connection is to make an "assembly-facilitating"
dogleg, consisting of 4 elbows and 3 short lengths of pipe.

On Aug 4, 10:59*pm, (Doug Miller) wrote:
In article , Larry Fishel wrote:

On Aug 4, 3:05=A0pm, RicodJour wrote:
I don't know how critical it is to have
the joint bottomed out. =A0Preferable? Sure, but I don't think it
affects things too much.

His concern was that if he carefully measures and dry-fits everything,
then when he applies the solvent the lengths will change and the
assembly will be FUBAR.

That's why you should carefully measure and *not* attempt to dry-fit. Measure
to the bottom of the seat in each fitting, because that's where the pipe is
going to wind up when the solvent is applied and the joint is made properly.
Trying to dry-fit plastic pipe is an exercise in futility: the pipes *never*
bottom in the fittings, so there's no way that the final assembly (with
solvent, and hence with the pipes bottomed) will be the same size as the
dry-fit size.

You can easily measure lengths in most cases. But when you have a
complex series of fittings at angles within a small area that has to
then align with 3 existing fixed pipes, it's not just a matter of
simple measurement. You need to know the angles can come together
correctly together with the various pipe lengths involved.

On Aug 6, 1:08*pm, Smitty Two wrote:
In article
,





wrote:
In previous projects I really haven't had the need to dry assemble a
bunch of fittings to get the alignment right and make sure it would
all work before gluing. * In the case of some recent work with 2" PVC
I had pipes making a tight 180 turn and together with a 3 way valve,
it all has to align just right with the existing piping in a short
distance with no wiggle room.

So, I put the pipes and fittings together dry first, to make sure they
aligned OK. * But there were two problems:

1 - It was very hard to get the dry pipe to bottom in the sockets of
the fittings

2 - It was even harder to then pull them apart.

I tried using some dish washing soap, but it didn't help much. * Which
got me to wondering if there are any tricks the pros use?

Never actually tried it, but I've often thought that making some
loose-fit test couplings would be useful. PVC is cheap, just buy some
extra fittings and bore them out enough so that the pipe can bottom out
dry. Maybe spray paint the outside red so you don't accidentally use
them in the final assembly.

Yeah, I kind of thought about that. I guess you could use a Dremel
or similar and grind it out. Would be cool if they sold alignment
ones that were slightly over sized and a different color, like red, so
they wouldn't get used improperly.




Another thing I've done once or twice to solve the problem of making
that last parallel connection is to make an "assembly-facilitating"
dogleg, consisting of 4 elbows and 3 short lengths of pipe.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On Aug 6, 7:15*pm, wrote:
On Aug 4, 10:59*pm, (Doug Miller) wrote:



In article , Larry Fishel wrote:

On Aug 4, 3:05=A0pm, RicodJour wrote:
I don't know how critical it is to have
the joint bottomed out. =A0Preferable? Sure, but I don't think it
affects things too much.

His concern was that if he carefully measures and dry-fits everything,
then when he applies the solvent the lengths will change and the
assembly will be FUBAR.

That's why you should carefully measure and *not* attempt to dry-fit. Measure
to the bottom of the seat in each fitting, because that's where the pipe is
going to wind up when the solvent is applied and the joint is made properly.
Trying to dry-fit plastic pipe is an exercise in futility: the pipes *never*
bottom in the fittings, so there's no way that the final assembly (with
solvent, and hence with the pipes bottomed) will be the same size as the
dry-fit size.

You can easily measure lengths in most cases. * But when you have a
complex series of fittings at angles within a small area that has to
then align with 3 existing fixed pipes, it's not just a matter of
simple measurement. You need to know the angles can come together
correctly together with the various pipe lengths involved.


Umm... yeah... If you have that sort of problem and need to dry fit
because you can't measure the lengths needed and visualize the
angles, you are probably lacking enough skills so that you should
hire someone to do the work for you even though you know how to
glue the pipes together yourself...

~~ Evan

On Aug 7, 3:28*am, Evan wrote:
On Aug 6, 7:15*pm, wrote:





On Aug 4, 10:59*pm, (Doug Miller) wrote:

In article , Larry Fishel wrote:

On Aug 4, 3:05=A0pm, RicodJour wrote:
I don't know how critical it is to have
the joint bottomed out. =A0Preferable? Sure, but I don't think it
affects things too much.

His concern was that if he carefully measures and dry-fits everything,
then when he applies the solvent the lengths will change and the
assembly will be FUBAR.

That's why you should carefully measure and *not* attempt to dry-fit. Measure
to the bottom of the seat in each fitting, because that's where the pipe is
going to wind up when the solvent is applied and the joint is made properly.
Trying to dry-fit plastic pipe is an exercise in futility: the pipes *never*
bottom in the fittings, so there's no way that the final assembly (with
solvent, and hence with the pipes bottomed) will be the same size as the
dry-fit size.

You can easily measure lengths in most cases. * But when you have a
complex series of fittings at angles within a small area that has to
then align with 3 existing fixed pipes, it's not just a matter of
simple measurement. You need to know the angles can come together
correctly together with the various pipe lengths involved.

Umm... *yeah... *If you have that sort of problem and need to dry fit
because you can't measure the lengths needed and visualize the
angles, you are probably lacking enough skills so that you should
hire someone to do the work for you even though you know how to
glue the pipes together yourself...

~~ Evan- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Explain exactly how one "visualizes" the angles. Seems everyone else
here understands the issue, because like me they have had cases where
it is necessary to dry fit prior to assembly. In the case in point,
I had a 3 way 2" valve that had to align with 3 different pipes on 3
different levels, all within a tight area. This isn't a case of
running a waste line across a basement, where the angles and lengths
aren't critical, you can make it up as you go and make adjustments
farther along if needed.

The process of dry fitting, PVC pipe(s) and fitting(s) is fraught with problems. This is because the industry standards for both the pipe and the fitting socket are designed to provide an interference fit within the bottom 1/3 of the socket. This is where the solvent in the cement creates a fusion bond of the pipe and fitting. The socket of the fittings have a slight taper, to assist in rounding the pipe and achieve the fusion bond area necessary to provide a leak free, joint that can withstand the forces of the system pressure.
Sanding or grinding the diameter of either the pipe or fitting can jeopardize the quality and/or performance of the solvent welded joint.
Pipe fitters that fabricate pipe assemblies use the takeout dimensions provided by ASTM standards for PVC fittings. These dimensions can be found within ASTM D2467. Another choice for getting the takeout for PVC fittings can be found at: http://www.expert4pvc.com. There are two FREE options that can provide you the takeout you are seeking. First is the html page at: http://expert4pvc.com/HandyTools.html or the Android app at: http://expert4pvc..com/Android.html

On Saturday, March 21, 2015 at 9:06:45 PM UTC-4, wrote:
The process of dry fitting, PVC pipe(s) and fitting(s) is fraught with problems. This is because the industry standards for both the pipe and the fitting socket are designed to provide an interference fit within the bottom 1/3 of the socket. This is where the solvent in the cement creates a fusion bond of the pipe and fitting. The socket of the fittings have a slight taper, to assist in rounding the pipe and achieve the fusion bond area necessary to provide a leak free, joint that can withstand the forces of the system pressure.
Sanding or grinding the diameter of either the pipe or fitting can jeopardize the quality and/or performance of the solvent welded joint.

The idea was to grind the necessary ones out and keep them for fitting purposes.
When actually assembling, you use a normal one. They only cost $.50.

replying to trader4, DrainerDuder wrote:
Take some scrap pvc pipe and chop it up with a pvc/hand/chop saw. Save all
the pvc "saw dust" and be sure it's ONLY pvc saw dust. Clean fitting hubs and
pipe ends with dry cloth and sprinkle pvc dust into fitting hubs and on pipe
ends (static will usually keep dust in place) then dry fit. The pvc sawdust
will act as lube. After dry fitting is successful you will easily be able to
disassemble plumbing. Before cementing clean all pipe ends and fitting hubs
with damp cloth and then pvc cleaner. Then prime and cement all pipe
together. Because the dust is in itself pvc any stray particles left after
cleaning will be mostly broken down by pvc cleaner primer and cement and fuse
with all material. Hope this helps.

PS. Be 100% your sawdust is 100% pvc. Preferably the same type of the kind
you are fitting. (Ie. All Sch 40 type)

--
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