Apparently photocopy machines since 2002 have hard drives that record
every document that is copied. Now there are warehouses full of used
copiers from banks, insurance companies, hospitals, doctors offices,
lawyers offices, police departments, government offices full of
documents scanned, printed or faxed by these organizations.
They are being sold to people in foreign countries all over the world as
we speak. Is your data secure?


--
LSMFT

I'm trying to think but nothing happens.........

I'd like some evidence of this, please.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"LSMFT" wrote in message
...
Apparently photocopy machines since 2002 have hard drives
that record
every document that is copied. Now there are warehouses full
of used
copiers from banks, insurance companies, hospitals, doctors
offices,
lawyers offices, police departments, government offices full
of
documents scanned, printed or faxed by these organizations.
They are being sold to people in foreign countries all over
the world as
we speak. Is your data secure?


--
LSMFT

I'm trying to think but nothing happens.........

On 4/19/2010 7:05 PM, LSMFT wrote:
Apparently photocopy machines since 2002 have hard drives that record
every document that is copied. Now there are warehouses full of used
copiers from banks, insurance companies, hospitals, doctors offices,
lawyers offices, police departments, government offices full of
documents scanned, printed or faxed by these organizations.
They are being sold to people in foreign countries all over the world as
we speak. Is your data secure?



So what part is news? High speed copiers need lots of memory to do what
they do. Not sure why 2002 was cited as some magical date as to when
when it started.

Stormin Mormon wrote:
I'd like some evidence of this, please.

Watch Last night's CBS evening news with Katie.



--
LSMFT

I'm trying to think but nothing happens.........

LSMFT wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote:
I'd like some evidence of this, please.

Watch Last night's CBS evening news with Katie.





Yeah, now there's an objective, unbiased source...

LSMFT wrote the following:
Stormin Mormon wrote:
I'd like some evidence of this, please.

Watch Last night's CBS evening news with Katie.

Oh, Damn. My time machine is in the shop.


--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

willshak wrote the following:
LSMFT wrote the following:
Stormin Mormon wrote:
I'd like some evidence of this, please.

Watch Last night's CBS evening news with Katie.

Oh, Damn. My time machine is in the shop.


My backup time machine got the info.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/...eaturedPost-PE

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

wrote:
On Tue, 20 Apr 2010 10:01:58 -0400, willshak
wrote:

willshak wrote the following:
LSMFT wrote the following:
Stormin Mormon wrote:
I'd like some evidence of this, please.

Watch Last night's CBS evening news with Katie.
Oh, Damn. My time machine is in the shop.

My backup time machine got the info.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/...eaturedPost-PE

I suppose the trick is to do a data security erase, format the drive
and reload the firmware. I am surprised this is not simply a function
in the setup of the copier. Hard drives are the most likely failure
point in anything that uses one. There has to be a fairly simple
procedure to replace them. The problem might be in getting the
firmware image without buying a drive from the manufacturer.

Why does any copy machine keep images of pages it is done printing? And
why thousands of pages? IMHO malfeasance.

Why does one manufacturer charge $500 for a 'feature' that erases the
hard disk image after the copy is made? Seems grossly excessive.


The news article said there was a downloadable program for looking at
hard disks. Anyone know what it is? One of the Norton Utilities used to
do that - long gone I believe.

On Apr 19, 7:05*pm, LSMFT wrote:
Apparently photocopy machines since 2002 have hard drives that record
every document that is copied. Now there are warehouses full of used
copiers from banks, insurance companies, hospitals, doctors offices,
lawyers offices, police departments, government offices full of
documents scanned, printed or faxed by these organizations.
They are being sold to people in foreign countries all over the world as
we speak. Is your data secure?

--
LSMFT

I'm trying to think but nothing happens.........


Another urban myth... They don't make hard drives which could
store every image copied by a copier -- just no way to store the
data for 2 million copies on one hard drive... If the machines were
set up to be able to do this the data would have to be "harvested"
frequently to prevent overwriting of the stored images...

If corporations feel that this is a possible risk, then like any other
computer device they should remove the hard drive and physically
shred it in a machine which is capable of destroying small metal
parts prior to abandoning the machines to non-corporate agents...

~~ Evan

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
I'd like some evidence of this, please.


Dude, it's in writing and it's on the internet -- what more do you want?


And just think how many images of office workers buns have been stored
for posterity.



"LSMFT" wrote in message
...
Apparently photocopy machines since 2002 have hard drives
that record
every document that is copied. Now there are warehouses full
of used
copiers from banks, insurance companies, hospitals, doctors
offices,
lawyers offices, police departments, government offices full
of
documents scanned, printed or faxed by these organizations.
They are being sold to people in foreign countries all over
the world as
we speak. Is your data secure?


--
LSMFT

I'm trying to think but nothing happens.........

wrote:
On Tue, 20 Apr 2010 10:31:45 -0700 (PDT), Evan
wrote:

They don't make hard drives which could
store every image copied by a copier -- just no way to store the
data for 2 million copies on one hard drive...

Of course they do. A typical B/W copier image might only be 40-50kb,
that is 100 gig for 2 million pictures. I do agree they probably don't
store that many and that work area does get rewritten but that just
means the data miner is only getting the most recent thousand images
or so. That could still be troubling if a significant number were
customer records and internal business documents.

What's fascinating it that nobody knows they have hard drives.They all
assume they all had ram memory as in the past that goes away when
powered down. I'm sure if they knew, the IS departments would have wiped
the drives. Instead, thousands or millions of used copiers are sitting
in warehouses that resell them world wide. You would think that would
trigger a homeland security alert and a freeze on them. I ain't heard
diddly squat about it.

--
LSMFT

I'm trying to think but nothing happens.........

I don't have TV, and rather don't miss it either.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"LSMFT" wrote in message
...
Stormin Mormon wrote:
I'd like some evidence of this, please.

Watch Last night's CBS evening news with Katie.



--
LSMFT

I'm trying to think but nothing happens.........

On Apr 20, 5:46*pm, me wrote:
On Tue, 20 Apr 2010 10:31:45 -0700 (PDT), Evan

wrote:
Another urban myth... *They don't make hard drives which could
store every image copied by a copier -- just no way to store the
data for 2 million copies on one hard drive... *If the machines were
set up to be able to do this the data would have to be "harvested"
frequently to prevent overwriting of the stored images...

Well, do the calculations on how many images you can store on a
terabyte. Admittedly, the drive is probably transitional and somewhat
smaller, but with the capabilities being added to networked office
machines, they will be ever expanding.


Do the calculations -- Terabyte drives are REALLY new... The copying
machines in question are older and awaiting resale after a company
has retired them...


Not to mention, consider the hacking opportunity for a networked copy
machine. I doubt the security is anything to write home about...
employees could probably easily hack internal corporate copiers with
little difficulty and do regular downloads of materials.


LOL... 90% of all the companies out there that have more than a few
dozen employees track EVERYTHING that a user does on their
computer at the office... That would include "hacking attempts"
and how many files and how much bandwidth a user uses during
their time on the network...


If corporations feel that this is a possible risk, then like any other
computer device they should remove the hard drive and physically
shred it in a machine which is capable of destroying small metal
parts prior to abandoning the machines to non-corporate agents...

I have a device like that I use when disposing of old drives (which I
have some unjustifiable habit of holding on to when they retire, then
disposing of them when they become seriously obsolete): It's the 2 lb
sledge. Does a good job. Sometimes I unscrew the drive covers and just
attack the platters, some days I just keep banging until the hammer
does it for me.


A sledge hammer ? Needlessly dangerous... And you would not
destroy thousands of hard drives in that manner in any productive
time period... They make industrial shredding machines that will
shred just about anything put into them, computer drives, documents
still inside binders... They are cool to see in action...

~~ Evan

bud-- wrote:
wrote:
On Tue, 20 Apr 2010 10:01:58 -0400, willshak
wrote:

willshak wrote the following:
LSMFT wrote the following:
Stormin Mormon wrote:
I'd like some evidence of this, please.

Watch Last night's CBS evening news with Katie.
Oh, Damn. My time machine is in the shop.

My backup time machine got the info.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/...eaturedPost-PE

I suppose the trick is to do a data security erase, format the drive
and reload the firmware. I am surprised this is not simply a function
in the setup of the copier. Hard drives are the most likely failure
point in anything that uses one. There has to be a fairly simple
procedure to replace them. The problem might be in getting the
firmware image without buying a drive from the manufacturer.

Why does any copy machine keep images of pages it is done printing?
And why thousands of pages? IMHO malfeasance.

I'm wondering what happened to effect the 2002 date for their inclusion.

Jon

Evan wrote:
On Apr 20, 5:46 pm, me wrote:
On Tue, 20 Apr 2010 10:31:45 -0700 (PDT), Evan

wrote:
Another urban myth... They don't make hard drives which could
store every image copied by a copier -- just no way to store the
data for 2 million copies on one hard drive... If the machines were
set up to be able to do this the data would have to be "harvested"
frequently to prevent overwriting of the stored images...
Well, do the calculations on how many images you can store on a
terabyte. Admittedly, the drive is probably transitional and somewhat
smaller, but with the capabilities being added to networked office
machines, they will be ever expanding.


Do the calculations -- Terabyte drives are REALLY new... The copying
machines in question are older and awaiting resale after a company
has retired them...


Not to mention, consider the hacking opportunity for a networked copy
machine. I doubt the security is anything to write home about...
employees could probably easily hack internal corporate copiers with
little difficulty and do regular downloads of materials.


LOL... 90% of all the companies out there that have more than a few
dozen employees track EVERYTHING that a user does on their
computer at the office... That would include "hacking attempts"
and how many files and how much bandwidth a user uses during
their time on the network...


If corporations feel that this is a possible risk, then like any other
computer device they should remove the hard drive and physically
shred it in a machine which is capable of destroying small metal
parts prior to abandoning the machines to non-corporate agents...
I have a device like that I use when disposing of old drives (which I
have some unjustifiable habit of holding on to when they retire, then
disposing of them when they become seriously obsolete): It's the 2 lb
sledge. Does a good job. Sometimes I unscrew the drive covers and just
attack the platters, some days I just keep banging until the hammer
does it for me.


A sledge hammer ? Needlessly dangerous... And you would not
destroy thousands of hard drives in that manner in any productive
time period... They make industrial shredding machines that will
shred just about anything put into them, computer drives, documents
still inside binders... They are cool to see in action...

~~ Evan

A waste of resources and hardware. There is a public-domain script out
there which calls a firmware routine built into most recent IDE/SATA
drives, and non-destrutively clears the data table for them. Nobody
short of a first-tier forensics company or NSA could recover them. The
process is approved for sanitizing up to 'secret' level drives. And it
is QUICK, unlike software-based wipe routines. A minute or two per drive.

The 'when in doubt, destroy' reflex is a sin, IMHO.

--
aem sends...

On 4/20/2010 6:15 PM, Jon Danniken wrote:
bud-- wrote:
wrote:
On Tue, 20 Apr 2010 10:01:58 -0400,
wrote:

willshak wrote the following:
LSMFT wrote the following:
Stormin Mormon wrote:
I'd like some evidence of this, please.

Watch Last night's CBS evening news with Katie.
Oh, Damn. My time machine is in the shop.

My backup time machine got the info.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/...eaturedPost-PE

I suppose the trick is to do a data security erase, format the drive
and reload the firmware. I am surprised this is not simply a function
in the setup of the copier. Hard drives are the most likely failure
point in anything that uses one. There has to be a fairly simple
procedure to replace them. The problem might be in getting the
firmware image without buying a drive from the manufacturer.

Why does any copy machine keep images of pages it is done printing?
And why thousands of pages? IMHO malfeasance.

I'm wondering what happened to effect the 2002 date for their inclusion.

Jon


Most likely the result of bad reporting...

That sounds gosh awful expensive to put that much memory and
drive into copiers. After all, there is price competition.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"LSMFT" wrote in message
...
wrote:
On Tue, 20 Apr 2010 10:31:45 -0700 (PDT), Evan
wrote:

They don't make hard drives which could
store every image copied by a copier -- just no way to
store the
data for 2 million copies on one hard drive...

Of course they do. A typical B/W copier image might only
be 40-50kb,
that is 100 gig for 2 million pictures. I do agree they
probably don't
store that many and that work area does get rewritten but
that just
means the data miner is only getting the most recent
thousand images
or so. That could still be troubling if a significant
number were
customer records and internal business documents.

What's fascinating it that nobody knows they have hard
drives.They all
assume they all had ram memory as in the past that goes away
when
powered down. I'm sure if they knew, the IS departments
would have wiped
the drives. Instead, thousands or millions of used copiers
are sitting
in warehouses that resell them world wide. You would think
that would
trigger a homeland security alert and a freeze on them. I
ain't heard
diddly squat about it.

--
LSMFT

I'm trying to think but nothing happens.........

Some windows programs allow for a drive reformat, which
allows you to pass the drives along to charity, or ohter
users.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"me" wrote in message
...

I have a device like that I use when disposing of old drives
(which I
have some unjustifiable habit of holding on to when they
retire, then
disposing of them when they become seriously obsolete): It's
the 2 lb
sledge. Does a good job. Sometimes I unscrew the drive
covers and just
attack the platters, some days I just keep banging until the
hammer
does it for me.

On 4/20/2010 5:05 PM, LSMFT wrote:
wrote:
On Tue, 20 Apr 2010 10:31:45 -0700 (PDT), Evan
wrote:

They don't make hard drives which could
store every image copied by a copier -- just no way to store the
data for 2 million copies on one hard drive...

Of course they do. A typical B/W copier image might only be 40-50kb,
that is 100 gig for 2 million pictures. I do agree they probably don't
store that many and that work area does get rewritten but that just
means the data miner is only getting the most recent thousand images
or so. That could still be troubling if a significant number were
customer records and internal business documents.

What's fascinating it that nobody knows they have hard drives.They all
assume they all had ram memory as in the past that goes away when
powered down. I'm sure if they knew, the IS departments would have wiped
the drives. Instead, thousands or millions of used copiers are sitting
in warehouses that resell them world wide. You would think that would
trigger a homeland security alert and a freeze on them. I ain't heard
diddly squat about it.


Lots of people know that anything beyond basic copiers have hard drives
(also true of large volume printers). Its just that lots of
organizations are run shall we say on the cheap side and really aren't
that concerned about security.

On Apr 20, 7:48*pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
Some windows programs allow for a drive reformat, which
allows you to pass the drives along to charity, or ohter
users.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
*www.lds.org


I hate to burst your bubble but if it is something that windows can do
and someone
has not yet tried to reuse the drive there are a multitude of programs
out there that
can *easily* undo it...

~~ Evan

aemeijers wrote:
Evan wrote:
On Apr 20, 5:46 pm, me wrote:
On Tue, 20 Apr 2010 10:31:45 -0700 (PDT), Evan

wrote:
Another urban myth... They don't make hard drives which could
store every image copied by a copier -- just no way to store the
data for 2 million copies on one hard drive... If the machines were
set up to be able to do this the data would have to be "harvested"
frequently to prevent overwriting of the stored images...
Well, do the calculations on how many images you can store on a
terabyte. Admittedly, the drive is probably transitional and somewhat
smaller, but with the capabilities being added to networked office
machines, they will be ever expanding.


Do the calculations -- Terabyte drives are REALLY new... The copying
machines in question are older and awaiting resale after a company
has retired them...


Not to mention, consider the hacking opportunity for a networked copy
machine. I doubt the security is anything to write home about...
employees could probably easily hack internal corporate copiers with
little difficulty and do regular downloads of materials.


LOL... 90% of all the companies out there that have more than a few
dozen employees track EVERYTHING that a user does on their
computer at the office... That would include "hacking attempts"
and how many files and how much bandwidth a user uses during
their time on the network...


If corporations feel that this is a possible risk, then like any other
computer device they should remove the hard drive and physically
shred it in a machine which is capable of destroying small metal
parts prior to abandoning the machines to non-corporate agents...
I have a device like that I use when disposing of old drives (which I
have some unjustifiable habit of holding on to when they retire, then
disposing of them when they become seriously obsolete): It's the 2 lb
sledge. Does a good job. Sometimes I unscrew the drive covers and just
attack the platters, some days I just keep banging until the hammer
does it for me.


A sledge hammer ? Needlessly dangerous... And you would not
destroy thousands of hard drives in that manner in any productive
time period... They make industrial shredding machines that will
shred just about anything put into them, computer drives, documents
still inside binders... They are cool to see in action...

~~ Evan

A waste of resources and hardware. There is a public-domain script out
there which calls a firmware routine built into most recent IDE/SATA
drives, and non-destrutively clears the data table for them. Nobody
short of a first-tier forensics company or NSA could recover them. The
process is approved for sanitizing up to 'secret' level drives. And it
is QUICK, unlike software-based wipe routines. A minute or two per drive.

The 'when in doubt, destroy' reflex is a sin, IMHO.


I use "Active Kill Disk Hard Drive Eraser" available he

http://download.cnet.com/Active-Kill...-10188745.html

http://tinyurl.com/amhwg9

TDD

On Apr 19, 7:05*pm, LSMFT wrote:
Apparently photocopy machines since 2002 have hard drives that record
every document that is copied. Now there are warehouses full of used
copiers from banks, insurance companies, hospitals, doctors offices,
lawyers offices, police departments, government offices full of
documents scanned, printed or faxed by these organizations.
They are being sold to people in foreign countries all over the world as
we speak. Is your data secure?

--
LSMFT

I'm trying to think but nothing happens.........

(1) This is not bunk or an urban legend if CBS actually bought random
copiers, ran the recovery program on the drives, and presented
evidence of what they found.

(2) I think what many are forgetting here is that these storage drives
are INSIDE a photocopier or network printer, and are not accessible by
standard means unless one physically pulls the drive out of the unit
and cobbles some way of installing it into a PC (or Mac, to be
platform agnostic).

(3) Any reasonable data recovery program can recover more data than
there is space on a drive. For example, when I had a 128MB compact
flash card "go out" in the 118° heat of Phoenix in the Summer (why,
oh, why did we go to Taliesin West in July?!?) my brother-in-law's
copy of Easy Recovery Pro found more than 300MB of recoverable data.
Yes, 2-1/2 times more data than the card's capacity. So if someone
were to run that sort of software on a copier drive, they could
recover many, many images that had been overwritten.

Food for thought for all of us...

On 4/21/2010 3:27 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:

I use "Active Kill Disk Hard Drive Eraser" available he

http://download.cnet.com/Active-Kill...-10188745.html


http://tinyurl.com/amhwg9

TDD

This product works, every time, and is excellent for stress
relief:

http://www.gardenerstoolshed.com/med...ni_maul_lg.jpg

You don't have to use it for security only. If a device fails,
becomes outdated, is just plain annoying, or if you've got the
need for some true anger management and don't give a rip about
destroying a moderately useful item, the MM is your tool.

On Wed, 21 Apr 2010 15:12:54 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 21 Apr 2010 12:20:42 -0500, "[SMF]"
wrote:

On 4/21/2010 3:27 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:

I use "Active Kill Disk Hard Drive Eraser" available he

http://download.cnet.com/Active-Kill...-10188745.html


http://tinyurl.com/amhwg9

TDD

This product works, every time, and is excellent for stress
relief:

http://www.gardenerstoolshed.com/med...ni_maul_lg.jpg

You don't have to use it for security only. If a device fails,
becomes outdated, is just plain annoying, or if you've got the
need for some true anger management and don't give a rip about
destroying a moderately useful item, the MM is your tool.

I have a Western Digital drive with a bullet hole in it over my work
bench to remind me not to buy another one. That would have been very
effective in rendering it unreadable, if it was still readable when I
shot it.

I seem to have a large fail rate with WD drives. I bought a SeaGate
time.

In ,
LSMFT typed:
Apparently photocopy machines since 2002 have hard drives
that record every document that is copied. Now there are
warehouses full of used copiers from banks, insurance
companies, hospitals, doctors offices, lawyers offices,
police departments, government offices full of documents
scanned, printed or faxed by these organizations. They are
being sold to people in foreign countries all over
the world as we speak. Is your data secure?

Yes, it is. Why?

LSMFT wrote:
Apparently photocopy machines since 2002 have hard drives that record
every document that is copied. Now there are warehouses full of used
copiers from banks, insurance companies, hospitals, doctors offices,
lawyers offices, police departments, government offices full of
documents scanned, printed or faxed by these organizations.
They are being sold to people in foreign countries all over the world as
we speak. Is your data secure?


Never mind. They put a large cover up on it. Pretend it's not true.

--
LSMFT

I'm trying to think but nothing happens.........

On Wed, 21 Apr 2010 16:08:12 -0400, Metspitzer wrote:

On Wed, 21 Apr 2010 15:12:54 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 21 Apr 2010 12:20:42 -0500, "[SMF]"
wrote:

On 4/21/2010 3:27 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:

I use "Active Kill Disk Hard Drive Eraser" available he

http://download.cnet.com/Active-Kill...-10188745.html


http://tinyurl.com/amhwg9

TDD

This product works, every time, and is excellent for stress
relief:

http://www.gardenerstoolshed.com/med...ni_maul_lg.jpg

You don't have to use it for security only. If a device fails,
becomes outdated, is just plain annoying, or if you've got the
need for some true anger management and don't give a rip about
destroying a moderately useful item, the MM is your tool.

I have a Western Digital drive with a bullet hole in it over my work
bench to remind me not to buy another one. That would have been very
effective in rendering it unreadable, if it was still readable when I
shot it.

I seem to have a large fail rate with WD drives. I bought a SeaGate
time.

I've had a couple of SeaGates go over the past couple of years too. All
manufacturers seem to lose the recipe periodically.

On Tue, 20 Apr 2010 19:50:45 -0700 (PDT), Evan
wrote:

On Apr 20, 7:48Â*pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
Some windows programs allow for a drive reformat, which
allows you to pass the drives along to charity, or ohter
users.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
Â*www.lds.org


I hate to burst your bubble but if it is something that windows can do
and someone
has not yet tried to reuse the drive there are a multitude of programs
out there that
can *easily* undo it...

~~ Evan
Not t rue. There are many ways under WinDoze to scrub a drive to
military/Government security specs. - which means there is NOTHING
recoverable on the drive - period.

LSMFT wrote:
Apparently photocopy machines since 2002 have hard drives that record
every document that is copied. Now there are warehouses full of used
copiers from banks, insurance companies, hospitals, doctors offices,
lawyers offices, police departments, government offices full of
documents scanned, printed or faxed by these organizations.
They are being sold to people in foreign countries all over the world as
we speak. Is your data secure?


Never mind,they decided to cover it up.

--
LSMFT

I'm trying to think but nothing happens.........

wrote:
On Thu, 22 Apr 2010 07:40:21 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 21 Apr 2010 21:05:40 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 20 Apr 2010 19:50:45 -0700 (PDT), Evan
wrote:

On Apr 20, 7:48 pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
Some windows programs allow for a drive reformat, which
allows you to pass the drives along to charity, or ohter
users.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org

I hate to burst your bubble but if it is something that windows can do
and someone
has not yet tried to reuse the drive there are a multitude of programs
out there that
can *easily* undo it...

~~ Evan
Not t rue. There are many ways under WinDoze to scrub a drive to
military/Government security specs. - which means there is NOTHING
recoverable on the drive - period.
Not true.

It is far from trivial to completely wipe a disk to make it
unrecoverable without physically destroying the hardware as the final
step.


We are not talking about NSA that can do atomic analysis of the
platters we are talking about some hacker with a PC reading the
sectors directly off the drive. If you overwrite them you foil anyone
who is not taking the drive apart and looking at the oxide.
The problem is most operating systems do not really erase anything
they just change the directory entry and that is easy to reconstruct.
If you write over the whole surface, for all but the most capable
forensic operations, that data is gone.

here is the 'quick scrub' utility I could not remember the name of in my
previous post:

http://cmrr.ucsd.edu/people/Hughes/SecureErase.shtml

Your tax dollars helped pay to develop it, you may as well try it. Boot
from a floppy and call it up, and it does a hardware call directly to
the electronics on the drive, and tells it to lobotomize itself.

--
aem sends...

Stepfann King wrote:
The only reason to be concerned is if you are making copies of your
hairy butt.

What if you have no hair on your butt because toxic farts
have burned it all off?

TDD