What work gloves do you use for repeated immersion in very heavy
impenetrable thickets of poison oak & poison ivy?

I'm covered in black poison urushiol from head to toe!

So far, these are the gloves I've tried (most of which failed miserably)!
- Pics he http://yfrog.com/jc45906740jx
- Album http://img696.imageshack.us/slidesho...d=45906740.jpg

Specifically, what skin is best for repeated washings?
- cowhide? goatskin? deerskin? what skin is best?
And, what gloves are available that are long and durable?
- garden gloves? oxy-welder's gloves? mig welders gloves? (what else?)

Cotton/leather work gloves are wholly unsatisfactory:
- They wash well; but the thin leather is worn out after 1 or two uses;
- They're too short to be of much use in heavy infestations;
- Worse yet, the back cotton allows urushiol to penetrate to the skin!

Leather work gloves are slightly better, but still wholly unsatisfactory:
- They're strong enough to take the wear of a few uses in the chapparal;
- But they're too short so my wrists get covered in the black oil;
- Worse yet, an XL comes out of the wash as an L which is smaller still;
- Yet the leather gets hard as a rock after a few wash cycles!

Cowhide oxy-acetylene welder's gloves are also unsatisfactory:
- They're nicely long so they cover the wrists perfectly;
- And, it's no problem finding an XL size to fit my large hands;
- And they're thick enough not to wear through on the first few uses;
- And they come out of repeated wash cycles as hard as serpentine!
- But they're just too cumbersome to use around power trimming tools!

I just tried the pigskin mig-welding gloves with some success:
- They're nicely long, almost as long as the O2 welder's gloves;
- They're all leather like the leather garden gloves so they're strong;
- And the leather is thinner than gas welder's gloves (nice and nimble);
- And, you can get them in XL sizes which don't seem to shrink too much;
- But they too get hard as a rock after repeated wash cycles!

Next I'm going to try the goatskin mig welding gloves:
- Like the pigskin mig welding gloves, they're long & seemingly durable;
- And, they seem to give a bit more "feel" than the pigskin gloves do;
- Also, I can get them in XL sizes (but I hope they don't shrink too much);
- Mostly, I hope they don't get as rock hard after a few wash cycles.

If the goatskin mig welding gloveds don't work, I'll try the deerskin mig
welding gloves; but there must be someone out there who has worked in heavy
impenetrable thickets of poison oak and/or poison ivy and/or poison sumac
who has solved this problem.

What other gloves can you recommend for protection when cutting through
heavy thickets of poison oak, when you're covered in black urushiol marks
from head to toe?

Requirements a
- Available in size XL (and needs to stay XL after repeated washing!)
- Must be durable (can't have any cloth) and must cover the wrists!
- But can't be so thick as to hinder the use of power tool controls.
- A bonus would be if it stays pliable after repeated machine washings!

On Apr 9, 2:30*pm, Elmo dcdraftwo...@Use-Author-Supplied-
Address.invalid wrote:
What work gloves do you use for repeated immersion in very heavy
impenetrable thickets of poison oak & poison ivy?

I'm covered in black poison urushiol from head to toe!

So far, these are the gloves I've tried (most of which failed miserably)!
- Pics hehttp://yfrog.com/jc45906740jx
- Albumhttp://img696.imageshack.us/slideshow/webplayer.php?id=45906740.jpg

Specifically, what skin is best for repeated washings?
- cowhide? goatskin? deerskin? what skin is best?
And, what gloves are available that are long and durable?
- garden gloves? oxy-welder's gloves? mig welders gloves? (what else?)

Cotton/leather work gloves are wholly unsatisfactory:
- They wash well; but the thin leather is worn out after 1 or two uses;
- They're too short to be of much use in heavy infestations;
- Worse yet, the back cotton allows urushiol to penetrate to the skin!

Leather work gloves are slightly better, but still wholly unsatisfactory:
- They're strong enough to take the wear of a few uses in the chapparal;
- But they're too short so my wrists get covered in the black oil;
- Worse yet, an XL comes out of the wash as an L which is smaller still;
- Yet the leather gets hard as a rock after a few wash cycles!

Cowhide oxy-acetylene welder's gloves are also unsatisfactory:
- They're nicely long so they cover the wrists perfectly;
- And, it's no problem finding an XL size to fit my large hands;
- And they're thick enough not to wear through on the first few uses;
- And they come out of repeated wash cycles as hard as serpentine!
- But they're just too cumbersome to use around power trimming tools!

I just tried the pigskin mig-welding gloves with some success:
- They're nicely long, almost as long as the O2 welder's gloves;
- They're all leather like the leather garden gloves so they're strong;
- And the leather is thinner than gas welder's gloves (nice and nimble);
- And, you can get them in XL sizes which don't seem to shrink too much;
- But they too get hard as a rock after repeated wash cycles!

Next I'm going to try the goatskin mig welding gloves:
- Like the pigskin mig welding gloves, they're long & seemingly durable;
- And, they seem to give a bit more "feel" than the pigskin gloves do;
- Also, I can get them in XL sizes (but I hope they don't shrink too much);
- Mostly, I hope they don't get as rock hard after a few wash cycles.

If the goatskin mig welding gloveds don't work, I'll try the deerskin mig
welding gloves; but there must be someone out there who has worked in heavy
impenetrable thickets of poison oak and/or poison ivy and/or poison sumac
who has solved this problem.

What other gloves can you recommend for protection when cutting through
heavy thickets of poison oak, when you're covered in black urushiol marks
from head to toe?

Requirements a
- Available in size XL (and needs to stay XL after repeated washing!)
- Must be durable (can't have any cloth) and must cover the wrists!
- But can't be so thick as to hinder the use of power tool controls.
- A bonus would be if it stays pliable after repeated machine washings!

Go cheap and just throw them away when you are finished.

On Fri, 9 Apr 2010 11:32:58 -0700 (PDT), jamesgangnc wrote:

http://img696.imageshack.us/g/45906740.jpg/
Go cheap and just throw them away when you are finished.

Cheap would be fine if it also worked (at least once).

But, as shown in the well-annotated pictures here (
http://img696.imageshack.us/slidesho...d=45906740.jpg ) ...

Neoprene or latex or nitrile gloves are cheap, but they tear in seconds
outdoors and they don't cover the wrists from urushiol (still, I wear them
UNDER the leather gloves) ...

Garden gloves are less cheap (about 10 bucks a pair); but they don't work
(too thin, too short, and too permiable too urushiol) ...

Welders gloveds are decidedly not cheap; and they seem to work the best (so
far); but I'm wasting lots of time and money on testing them one by one
(first oxy cowhide, then mig pigskin, and now mig goatskin (next would be
mig deerskin))...

Surely someone other than me has worked in poison oak/ivy before me?

What do outdoor firefighters use for gloves?
What do outdoor field workers use for gloves?

Certainly someone must have the experience & recommendation that I lack for
outdoor gloves that are long, durable, and can be washed repeatedly???

Here are my experiments so far (deerskin mig welding gloves are next):
http://img696.imageshack.us/slidesho...d=45906740.jpg

On Fri, 09 Apr 2010 14:50:16 -0400, wrote:

What work gloves do you use for repeated immersion in very heavy
impenetrable thickets of poison oak & poison ivy? Requirements a
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...temnumber=4468

Interesting.

I was looking for welders or firefighters "skin" glovs (deerskin, goatskin,
kangaroo skin, cowhide, etc.) because of the length (covers the wrists)
durability and impermeability to poison oak urushiol; and I hadn't thought
of rubber gloves.

The rubber gloves meet some requirements (others need to be tested):
- Available in size XL and covers the wrists = It meets this
- Impermeable to poison oak/ivy urushiol = certainly meets this
- Durable in impenetrable poison oak chaparral = maybe meets this
- Remains pliable after repeated washing machine cycles = probably meets
- Pliable enough to allow use of hand cutting tool controls = ???

The only thing that worries me with the rubber gloves idea is that I've
used sand-blasting rubber gloves before and I've used radioative protection
equipment and those thick rubber bloves just don't have much finger feel.

Has anyone used these $7 (Harbor Frieght item 4468-7VGA) blasting rubber
gloves outside in the chaparral that can tell us what the finger feel is
like on typical power tools?
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...temnumber=4468

On 4/9/2010 2:30 PM, Elmo wrote:
What work gloves do you use for repeated immersion in very heavy
impenetrable thickets of poison oak& poison ivy?

I'm covered in black poison urushiol from head to toe!

So far, these are the gloves I've tried (most of which failed miserably)!
- Pics he http://yfrog.com/jc45906740jx
- Album http://img696.imageshack.us/slidesho...d=45906740.jpg

Specifically, what skin is best for repeated washings?
- cowhide? goatskin? deerskin? what skin is best?
And, what gloves are available that are long and durable?
- garden gloves? oxy-welder's gloves? mig welders gloves? (what else?)

Cotton/leather work gloves are wholly unsatisfactory:
- They wash well; but the thin leather is worn out after 1 or two uses;
- They're too short to be of much use in heavy infestations;
- Worse yet, the back cotton allows urushiol to penetrate to the skin!

Leather work gloves are slightly better, but still wholly unsatisfactory:
- They're strong enough to take the wear of a few uses in the chapparal;
- But they're too short so my wrists get covered in the black oil;
- Worse yet, an XL comes out of the wash as an L which is smaller still;
- Yet the leather gets hard as a rock after a few wash cycles!

Cowhide oxy-acetylene welder's gloves are also unsatisfactory:
- They're nicely long so they cover the wrists perfectly;
- And, it's no problem finding an XL size to fit my large hands;
- And they're thick enough not to wear through on the first few uses;
- And they come out of repeated wash cycles as hard as serpentine!
- But they're just too cumbersome to use around power trimming tools!

I just tried the pigskin mig-welding gloves with some success:
- They're nicely long, almost as long as the O2 welder's gloves;
- They're all leather like the leather garden gloves so they're strong;
- And the leather is thinner than gas welder's gloves (nice and nimble);
- And, you can get them in XL sizes which don't seem to shrink too much;
- But they too get hard as a rock after repeated wash cycles!

Next I'm going to try the goatskin mig welding gloves:
- Like the pigskin mig welding gloves, they're long& seemingly durable;
- And, they seem to give a bit more "feel" than the pigskin gloves do;
- Also, I can get them in XL sizes (but I hope they don't shrink too much);
- Mostly, I hope they don't get as rock hard after a few wash cycles.

If the goatskin mig welding gloveds don't work, I'll try the deerskin mig
welding gloves; but there must be someone out there who has worked in heavy
impenetrable thickets of poison oak and/or poison ivy and/or poison sumac
who has solved this problem.

What other gloves can you recommend for protection when cutting through
heavy thickets of poison oak, when you're covered in black urushiol marks
from head to toe?

Requirements a
- Available in size XL (and needs to stay XL after repeated washing!)
- Must be durable (can't have any cloth) and must cover the wrists!
- But can't be so thick as to hinder the use of power tool controls.
- A bonus would be if it stays pliable after repeated machine washings!

A chemical worker would use rubber gloves that are washable. Any
leather is going to be permeable or hard to wash.

On Apr 9, 2:46*pm, Elmo dcdraftwo...@Use-Author-Supplied-
Address.invalid wrote:
On Fri, 9 Apr 2010 11:32:58 -0700 (PDT), jamesgangnc wrote:
http://img696.imageshack.us/g/45906740.jpg/
Go cheap and just throw them away when you are finished.

Cheap would be fine if it also worked (at least once).

But, as shown in the well-annotated pictures here (http://img696.imageshack.us/slidesho...d=45906740.jpg) ...

Neoprene or latex or nitrile gloves are cheap, but they tear in seconds
outdoors and they don't cover the wrists from urushiol (still, I wear them
UNDER the leather gloves) ...

Garden gloves are less cheap (about 10 bucks a pair); but they don't work
(too thin, too short, and too permiable too urushiol) ...

Welders gloveds are decidedly not cheap; and they seem to work the best (so
far); but I'm wasting lots of time and money on testing them one by one
(first oxy cowhide, then mig pigskin, and now mig goatskin (next would be
mig deerskin))...

Surely someone other than me has worked in poison oak/ivy before me?

What do outdoor firefighters use for gloves?
What do outdoor field workers use for gloves?

Certainly someone must have the experience & recommendation that I lack for
outdoor gloves that are long, durable, and can be washed repeatedly???

Here are my experiments so far (deerskin mig welding gloves are next):http://img696.imageshack.us/slidesho...d=45906740.jpg

Lowes has garden gloves in the 2-3$ range.

I kill it off with 24d and wait 6 months or so before trying to clear
it.

Elmo wrote:
What work gloves do you use for repeated immersion in very heavy
impenetrable thickets of poison oak & poison ivy?

I'm covered in black poison urushiol from head to toe!

So far, these are the gloves I've tried (most of which failed miserably)!
- Pics he http://yfrog.com/jc45906740jx
- Album http://img696.imageshack.us/slidesho...d=45906740.jpg

Specifically, what skin is best for repeated washings?
- cowhide? goatskin? deerskin? what skin is best?
And, what gloves are available that are long and durable?
- garden gloves? oxy-welder's gloves? mig welders gloves? (what else?)

Cotton/leather work gloves are wholly unsatisfactory:
- They wash well; but the thin leather is worn out after 1 or two uses;
- They're too short to be of much use in heavy infestations;
- Worse yet, the back cotton allows urushiol to penetrate to the skin!

Leather work gloves are slightly better, but still wholly unsatisfactory:
- They're strong enough to take the wear of a few uses in the chapparal;
- But they're too short so my wrists get covered in the black oil;
- Worse yet, an XL comes out of the wash as an L which is smaller still;
- Yet the leather gets hard as a rock after a few wash cycles!

Cowhide oxy-acetylene welder's gloves are also unsatisfactory:
- They're nicely long so they cover the wrists perfectly;
- And, it's no problem finding an XL size to fit my large hands;
- And they're thick enough not to wear through on the first few uses;
- And they come out of repeated wash cycles as hard as serpentine!
- But they're just too cumbersome to use around power trimming tools!

I just tried the pigskin mig-welding gloves with some success:
- They're nicely long, almost as long as the O2 welder's gloves;
- They're all leather like the leather garden gloves so they're strong;
- And the leather is thinner than gas welder's gloves (nice and nimble);
- And, you can get them in XL sizes which don't seem to shrink too much;
- But they too get hard as a rock after repeated wash cycles!

Next I'm going to try the goatskin mig welding gloves:
- Like the pigskin mig welding gloves, they're long & seemingly durable;
- And, they seem to give a bit more "feel" than the pigskin gloves do;
- Also, I can get them in XL sizes (but I hope they don't shrink too much);
- Mostly, I hope they don't get as rock hard after a few wash cycles.

If the goatskin mig welding gloveds don't work, I'll try the deerskin mig
welding gloves; but there must be someone out there who has worked in heavy
impenetrable thickets of poison oak and/or poison ivy and/or poison sumac
who has solved this problem.

What other gloves can you recommend for protection when cutting through
heavy thickets of poison oak, when you're covered in black urushiol marks
from head to toe?

Requirements a
- Available in size XL (and needs to stay XL after repeated washing!)
- Must be durable (can't have any cloth) and must cover the wrists!
- But can't be so thick as to hinder the use of power tool controls.
- A bonus would be if it stays pliable after repeated machine washings!


NONE of the above. ANYTHING that can absorb the oils is no good.

Visit a fire equipment store and buy a pair of gauntlet style
extrication gloves. These are made for use with power equipment, BUT
they hape a moisture barrier inside them which stops oils, gas, blood,
water from getting though and reaching you.

To protect farther up the arms you could buy a pair of the sleeves sold
there as well.

--
Steve W.
(\___/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

Elmo wrote:
On Fri, 9 Apr 2010 11:32:58 -0700 (PDT), jamesgangnc wrote:

http://img696.imageshack.us/g/45906740.jpg/
Go cheap and just throw them away when you are finished.

Cheap would be fine if it also worked (at least once).

But, as shown in the well-annotated pictures here (
http://img696.imageshack.us/slidesho...d=45906740.jpg ) ...

Neoprene or latex or nitrile gloves are cheap, but they tear in seconds
outdoors and they don't cover the wrists from urushiol (still, I wear them
UNDER the leather gloves) ...

Garden gloves are less cheap (about 10 bucks a pair); but they don't work
(too thin, too short, and too permiable too urushiol) ...

Welders gloveds are decidedly not cheap; and they seem to work the best (so
far); but I'm wasting lots of time and money on testing them one by one
(first oxy cowhide, then mig pigskin, and now mig goatskin (next would be
mig deerskin))...

Surely someone other than me has worked in poison oak/ivy before me?

What do outdoor firefighters use for gloves?
What do outdoor field workers use for gloves?

Certainly someone must have the experience & recommendation that I lack for
outdoor gloves that are long, durable, and can be washed repeatedly???

Here are my experiments so far (deerskin mig welding gloves are next):
http://img696.imageshack.us/slidesho...d=45906740.jpg


Firefighters gloves are BULKY unless you buy the good ones. However as I
said in my other post Extrication gloves would do the job and work well.



--
Steve W.
(\___/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

On Fri, 9 Apr 2010 12:16:39 -0700 (PDT), jamesgangnc wrote:

Here are my experiments so far (deerskin mig welding gloves are next):htt=
http://img696.imageshack.us/slidesho...3D45906740.jpg

Lowes has garden gloves in the 2-3$ range.

I kill it off with 24d and wait 6 months or so before trying to clear
it.

As explained in the pictures, the main problem with "garden gloves" is
they're too short and if they're not 100% leather, they're too permeable to
urishiol oils.

Any web page which doesn't discuss the black stains of urushiol is going to
be suspect because anyone who hasn't seen the black all over their clothes
hasn't really been exposed to poison oak or ivy!

This guy has been exposed ... I can tell by his description of the black
stains on his leather gloves. Unfortunately, he says leather is permeable
to urushiol (I doubt that myself, as long as the leather is thick, in my
experience). He does use what he calls "neoprene gauntlet gloves"
http://www.curtbeebe.com/docs/anecdotes.html

BTW, killing the poison oak does absolutely nothing to the urushiol which
permeats every part of the plant, from the leaves to the stems, to the
roots.

As you can see in the pictures, the stems are from a mm thick to a few
inches in diameter, so, they're chock full of always poisonous black
urushiol even a hundred years after they've been "killed off".
http://img696.imageshack.us/slidesho...3D45906740.jpg

On Fri, 9 Apr 2010 18:46:54 +0000 (UTC), Elmo
wrote:

On Fri, 9 Apr 2010 11:32:58 -0700 (PDT), jamesgangnc wrote:

http://img696.imageshack.us/g/45906740.jpg/
Go cheap and just throw them away when you are finished.

Cheap would be fine if it also worked (at least once).

But, as shown in the well-annotated pictures here (
http://img696.imageshack.us/slidesho...d=45906740.jpg ) ...

Neoprene or latex or nitrile gloves are cheap, but they tear in seconds
outdoors and they don't cover the wrists from urushiol (still, I wear them
UNDER the leather gloves) ...

Garden gloves are less cheap (about 10 bucks a pair); but they don't work
(too thin, too short, and too permiable too urushiol) ...

Welders gloveds are decidedly not cheap; and they seem to work the best (so
far); but I'm wasting lots of time and money on testing them one by one
(first oxy cowhide, then mig pigskin, and now mig goatskin (next would be
mig deerskin))...

Surely someone other than me has worked in poison oak/ivy before me?

What do outdoor firefighters use for gloves?
What do outdoor field workers use for gloves?

Certainly someone must have the experience & recommendation that I lack for
outdoor gloves that are long, durable, and can be washed repeatedly???

Here are my experiments so far (deerskin mig welding gloves are next):
http://img696.imageshack.us/slidesho...d=45906740.jpg
Get the good neoprene impregnated cloth hazmat gloves - they are
built like a rubber boot.

Safety supply should carry them - not cheap.

On Fri, 09 Apr 2010 14:50:16 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 9 Apr 2010 18:30:08 +0000 (UTC), Elmo
wrote:

What work gloves do you use for repeated immersion in very heavy
impenetrable thickets of poison oak & poison ivy?


http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...temnumber=4468

...or similar from elsewhere
That's the 'hazmat" glove type I was thinking of - but many did not
have the textured grip.

On Fri, 09 Apr 2010 15:38:34 -0400, Steve W. wrote:

buy a pair of gauntlet style extrication gloves.
buy a pair of the sleeves sold there as well.

Interesting.

That's the kind of information I didn't have that I was looking for!

Most extrication gloves are over $100 per pair but some are more reasonable
for your average homeowner:
http://www.gomed-tech.com/catalog/mt...ion-gloves.htm
http://www.chibaglovescanada.com/
http://www.hansenfire.com/glovesWildland.htm
http://www.urbanhart.com/shopsite/pr...cuegloves.html

I like the "elastic cuff" and the fact they're available in XL sizes. Some
even have a silica gell over the ulna nerve. I'm wondering if the ample
"kevlar" and "cordura" and "safecut" and "reflex" will keep out the
chemical urushiol oil though ... as they don't seem to use leather or
rubber.

Also, hopefully these expensive but intriguing extrication gloves are
washable as the urushiol is infectious even after a century outside!

So, Elmo, why aren't you just killing these awful plants with
glyphosate? Why bother wrestling with them?

In article , Elmo wrote:
What work gloves do you use for repeated immersion in very heavy
impenetrable thickets of poison oak & poison ivy?

Work gloves? Who needs work gloves? I'm lucky enough to be pretty damn near
immune to the stuff, and I just pull it out with my bare hands. Ask around --
maybe someone you know is like me, and would be willing to pull it for you in
exchange for work on his place, or beer and pizza, or a sawbuck or three...

If you live in the Indianapolis area, maybe we can work something out. Email
doug at milmac dot com.

On Fri, 09 Apr 2010 20:32:26 GMT, Doug Miller wrote:

Work gloves? Who needs work gloves? I'm lucky enough to be pretty damn near
immune to the stuff, and I just pull it out with my bare hands.

Hi Doug,

I'm in the chaparral country, nowhere near the lush forests.

But let me advise you of something important ... there are only two kinds
of people with respect to poison oak/ivy:
- Those who have been sensitized (and therefore who get the rash) ...
- And ... those you have yet to be sensitized (but are never immune)!

The bad news (for you) is that you are never immune to cell mediated
immunities such as that which urushiol causes - you just haven't been hit
with enough oil for your particular immune system to react (lucky you!).

Putting it another way, you just have a "lousy" immune system (luckily for
you), which doesn't react to the doses you have encountered so far in your
life. But, trust me (look it up if you don't believe me), you WILL get
poison oak eventually if you're exposed to the urushiol enough.

Nobody is "immune"; some just haven't gotten a good enough dose to make
their immune system react ... and once it reacts ... it never forgets.

Note: If you're on immunosuppressants, then you might not react even after
having been sensitized.

On Fri, 9 Apr 2010 13:32:25 -0700 (PDT), mike wrote:

So, Elmo, why aren't you just killing these awful plants with
glyphosate? Why bother wrestling with them?

Probably I didn't explain the problem sufficiently.

Maybe these photographs help:
http://img338.imageshack.us/slidesho...hiolchapar.jpg

I hope they show the problem. Basically I'm trying to clear a large area of
the plant. Even when dead, the poison oak plants have shown themselves to
be infectious for a century. All parts of the plant, from the roots to the
stems to the leaves contain the irritating urushiol.
http://yfrog.com/9epoisonoakurushiolchaparjx

So, if I kill them; they're still there. The poison oak thickets are so
congested that a human can not possibly walk through the chaparral. The
chaparral is like a jungle.
http://img338.imageshack.us/g/poison...hiolchapar.jpg

The only way through it is to hack your way through. The vines and bushes
go up maybe twenty feet so what I'm really doing is tunneling a "Cumberland
Gap" through them. Even when you walk on the ground, you're actually on a
foot high crunching mass of old vines, which your feet sink into every few
steps, allowing the poison oak urushiol to get at your ankles and lower
legs.

At first I hacked away with a machete, then I used pruning shears to cut
the inch-thick branches; and then the chain saw to cut through the
non-poison-oak trees and bushes which the poison oak is intertwined with.

I get maybe ten feet an hour but I have acres and acres to complete. I
don't mind the work; actually I enjoy it. But, as with any good adversary,
it pays to protect yourself from its defenses as you work your way through
the thickets.

In summary, unless I'm missing the biodegradation part, killing the plant
does absolutely nothing (well, maybe it eliminates the leaves) when you're
hacking your way through a thicket of vastly intertwined species of stems
that are at times thicker than your wrist.

Maybe I'm wrong, but, killing them won't remove them. They're so thick, and
interwined with good species, that the only way to remove them selectively
is to cut through them.

"jamesgangnc" wrote in message
...
On Apr 9, 2:46 pm, Elmo dcdraftwo...@Use-Author-Supplied-
Address.invalid wrote:
On Fri, 9 Apr 2010 11:32:58 -0700 (PDT), jamesgangnc wrote:
http://img696.imageshack.us/g/45906740.jpg/
Go cheap and just throw them away when you are finished.

Cheap would be fine if it also worked (at least once).

But, as shown in the well-annotated pictures here
(http://img696.imageshack.us/slidesho...d=45906740.jpg) ...

Neoprene or latex or nitrile gloves are cheap, but they tear in seconds
outdoors and they don't cover the wrists from urushiol (still, I wear
them
UNDER the leather gloves) ...

Garden gloves are less cheap (about 10 bucks a pair); but they don't work
(too thin, too short, and too permiable too urushiol) ...

Welders gloveds are decidedly not cheap; and they seem to work the best
(so
far); but I'm wasting lots of time and money on testing them one by one
(first oxy cowhide, then mig pigskin, and now mig goatskin (next would be
mig deerskin))...

Surely someone other than me has worked in poison oak/ivy before me?

What do outdoor firefighters use for gloves?
What do outdoor field workers use for gloves?

Certainly someone must have the experience & recommendation that I lack
for
outdoor gloves that are long, durable, and can be washed repeatedly???

Here are my experiments so far (deerskin mig welding gloves are
next):http://img696.imageshack.us/slidesho...d=45906740.jpg

Lowes has garden gloves in the 2-3$ range.

I kill it off with 24d and wait 6 months or so before trying to clear
it.

That would be my preferred method. I recall, in the days when one could
easily get the stuff that you don't use 24D for brush and poison ivy but the
better chemical is 245T a close but stronger relative. I don't know if you
can even buy the stuff now.

On Apr 9, 1:57*pm, Elmo dcdraftwo...@Use-Author-Supplied-
Address.invalid wrote:
On Fri, 9 Apr 2010 13:32:25 -0700 (PDT), mike wrote:
So, Elmo, why aren't you just killing these awful plants with
glyphosate? *Why bother wrestling with them?

Probably I didn't explain the problem sufficiently.

Maybe these photographs help:http://img338.imageshack.us/slidesho...poisonoakurush...

I hope they show the problem. Basically I'm trying to clear a large area of
the plant. Even when dead, the poison oak plants have shown themselves to
be infectious for a century. All parts of the plant, from the roots to the
stems to the leaves contain the irritating urushiol.http://yfrog.com/9epoisonoakurushiolchaparjx

So, if I kill them; they're still there. The poison oak thickets are so
congested that a human can not possibly walk through the chaparral. The
chaparral is like a jungle.http://img338.imageshack.us/g/poison...hiolchapar.jpg

The only way through it is to hack your way through. The vines and bushes
go up maybe twenty feet so what I'm really doing is tunneling a "Cumberland
Gap" through them. Even when you walk on the ground, you're actually on a
foot high crunching mass of old vines, which your feet sink into every few
steps, allowing the poison oak urushiol to get at your ankles and lower
legs.

At first I hacked away with a machete, then I used pruning shears to cut
the inch-thick branches; and then the chain saw to cut through the
non-poison-oak trees and bushes which the poison oak is intertwined with.

I get maybe ten feet an hour but I have acres and acres to complete. I
don't mind the work; actually I enjoy it. But, as with any good adversary,
it pays to protect yourself from its defenses as you work your way through
the thickets.

In summary, unless I'm missing the biodegradation part, killing the plant
does absolutely nothing (well, maybe it eliminates the leaves) when you're
hacking your way through a thicket of vastly intertwined species of stems
that are at times thicker than your wrist.

Maybe I'm wrong, but, killing them won't remove them. They're so thick, and
interwined with good species, that the only way to remove them selectively
is to cut through them.

No. The irritating oils completely break down in about a year after
death.

Acres of poison ivy infested thicket? Yikes. I'd be tempted to rent
a bulldozer to clear the whole damn thing, and replant from scratch.

EXT wrote:
....

That would be my preferred method. I recall, in the days when one could
easily get the stuff that you don't use 24D for brush and poison ivy but
the better chemical is 245T a close but stronger relative. I don't know
if you can even buy the stuff now.

2,4,5-T was decertified years ago by EPA even for licensed agricultural
use in the US. 2,4-D and 2,4,5-T mix was known as "Agent Orange" and
the indiscriminate use in 'Nam and aerial spraying for attempting to
thwart marijuana plots in proximity to habitation was prime motivation
for the ban.

--

On Fri, 09 Apr 2010 16:12:20 -0400, wrote:

Get the good neoprene impregnated cloth hazmat gloves

BTW, I don't know about neoprene, but poison oak urushiol apparently goes
right through latex gloves!


http://www.curtbeebe.com/docs/beingsmart.html

On Apr 9, 2:18*pm, mike wrote:
Acres of poison ivy infested thicket? *Yikes. *I'd be tempted to rent
a bulldozer to clear the whole damn thing, and replant from scratch.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

P.S. I'd at least want to bulldoze a path so I could use herbicides.

From the stuff I've read, pulling poison ivy from dry soil will not be
very effective. It'll just regrow vigorously from root parts left
behind. You're going to have to find a way to apply herbicides.

On Fri, 9 Apr 2010 14:32:18 -0700, LM
wrote:

On Fri, 09 Apr 2010 16:12:20 -0400, wrote:

Get the good neoprene impregnated cloth hazmat gloves

BTW, I don't know about neoprene, but poison oak urushiol apparently goes
right through latex gloves!


http://www.curtbeebe.com/docs/beingsmart.html
The beuty of neoprene is it is totally resistant and impervious to
oils and alkalis

On Fri, 9 Apr 2010 14:18:37 -0700 (PDT), mike wrote:

The irritating oils completely break down in about a year after
death.

I wish! I really do. If you can find a reliable reference that says that,
I'd love to read it thoroughly as (see below), it has been proven to be
infectius for more than a century after the plants died (dendritic samples
in drawers).

The urushiol is in every part of the plant (even tiny hairs on the stem):
http://www.curtbeebe.com/docs/biochemistry.html

Only a few molecules are needed to cause a rash:
http://www.curtbeebe.com/docs/Urushiol.html)

An amount the size of the tip of a needle can cause a rash:
http://www.technuextreme.com/faq.htm

Some assert urushiol is infectious forever:
http://www.poison-ivy.org/html/faq.htm
"The oil from poison ivy is extremely stable and will stay potent -
essentially forever."

Others show examnples where urushiol infectivity lasts a century:
http://tinyurl.com/ybkublp
"For stability urushiol has few equals-it has been found active in dried
plants that date back more than 100 years."

Yet others assert urushiol is infectious only for a few years:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poison_ivy
"Urushiol oil can remain active for several years, so handling dead leaves
or vines can cause a reaction."

Acres of poison ivy infested thicket? Yikes. I'd be tempted to rent
a bulldozer to clear the whole damn thing, and replant from scratch.

It's way too steep to get a bulldozer or bobcat from what I've been told.
It's hard enough to climb in there on foot, as it is.

On Fri, 9 Apr 2010 17:06:29 -0400, EXT wrote:

I kill it off with 24d and wait 6 months or so before trying to clear
it.

That would be my preferred method.

Mine too! If it would work.

Unfortunately, killing the leaves does nothing to clear the thicket of the
infectious stems and roots.

See these pictures to get an idea of the chaparral we're talking about:
http://img696.imageshack.us/slidesho...3D45906740.jpg

Your feet are a foot off the ground due to the intertwined dead stems which
then go up and over everything to a height greater than twenty feet. It's
almost like a jungle (although I've never been in a real jungle so I can't
say for sure.)

Also see my previous references which claim that a tiny drop the size of a
pin point is infectious months, years, proven cases of a century in samples
stored in archives, and some people say, essentially forever.

This is deep in a valley where you can't even walk through the stuff w/o
hacking away with a machete and/or power cutters. I don't think a bobcat or
bulldozer can get in there either because I have to climb down a rope cut
through the poison oak just to get to the bottom where most of the work
lies.

PREVIOUS REFERENCES:
Only a few molecules are needed to cause a rash:
http://www.curtbeebe.com/docs/Urushiol.html)

An amount the size of the tip of a needle can cause a rash:
http://www.technuextreme.com/faq.htm

Some assert urushiol is infectious forever:
http://www.poison-ivy.org/html/faq.htm
"The oil from poison ivy is extremely stable and will stay potent -
essentially forever."

Others show examnples where urushiol infectivity lasts a century:
http://tinyurl.com/ybkublp
"For stability urushiol has few equals-it has been found active in dried
plants that date back more than 100 years."

Yet others assert urushiol is infectious only for a few years:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poison_ivy
"Urushiol oil can remain active for several years, so handling dead leaves
or vines can cause a reaction."

On Apr 9, 2:42*pm, Elmo dcdraftwo...@Use-Author-Supplied-
Address.invalid wrote:
On Fri, 9 Apr 2010 14:18:37 -0700 (PDT), mike wrote:
The irritating oils completely break down in about a year after
death.

I wish! I really do. If you can find a reliable reference that says that,
I'd love to read it thoroughly as (see below), it has been proven to be
infectius for more than a century after the plants died (dendritic samples
in drawers).

The urushiol is in every part of the plant (even tiny hairs on the stem):http://www.curtbeebe.com/docs/biochemistry.html

Only a few molecules are needed to cause a rash:http://www.curtbeebe.com/docs/Urushiol.html)

An amount the size of the tip of a needle can cause a rash:http://www.technuextreme.com/faq.htm

Some assert urushiol is infectious forever:http://www.poison-ivy.org/html/faq.htm
"The oil from poison ivy is extremely stable and will stay potent -
essentially forever."

Others show examnples where urushiol infectivity lasts a century:http://tinyurl.com/ybkublp
"For stability urushiol has few equals-it has been found active in dried
plants that date back more than 100 years."

Yet others assert urushiol is infectious only for a few years:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poison_ivy
"Urushiol oil can remain active for several years, so handling dead leaves
or vines can cause a reaction."

Acres of poison ivy infested thicket? *Yikes. *I'd be tempted to rent
a bulldozer to clear the whole damn thing, and replant from scratch.

It's way too steep to get a bulldozer or bobcat from what I've been told.
It's hard enough to climb in there on foot, as it is.

Your plants aren't going to be stored inside, dried. They'll be
subject to weather (sun, water, fungus, bugs, bacteria).

Quote: :It usually takes a year or so before the toxic properties
weather away."
Source: http://www.hort.uconn.edu/ipm/homegr.../60poisivy.htm

On Fri, 9 Apr 2010 14:39:00 -0700 (PDT), mike wrote:

P.S. I'd at least want to bulldoze a path so I could use herbicides.

I'd love that too! Unfortunately, the access to the areas I'm clearing is
very steep! I have to climb down a rope that I posted in the ground after
cutting through the tangle of poison oak.

What steepness of a soft hillside can a bulldozer go down?

I'm not sure how to measure the steepness of the access points, but, I'd
say a six-foot tall human is below the lip in about 9 or ten feet. That is,
in only a few steps (about four or so), you're already below where you
started. It's pretty steep.

I'll see if I can snap a picture of the steepness to give you an idea. If a
bobcat can get down a cliff, I'd LOVE to rent one and do it myself!

On Fri, 9 Apr 2010 14:55:07 -0700 (PDT), mike wrote:

http://www.hort.uconn.edu/ipm/homegr.../60poisivy.htm

Hi Mike,
That's a very interesting article, which says urushiol "is very stable, and
dead and dried material is as hazardous to sensitive people as an
actively-growing plant. It is equally active in the dead of winter. Many
people have caught poison ivy from dead poison ivy plants. It usually takes
a year or so before the toxic properties weather away".


Even though the urushiol in poison oak is different than that in poison ivy
(http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jo00215a002), your point is valid,
that the urushiol might "weather away" (whatever that means). I suppose it
oxidizes to something other than urushiol.

Interesting ...

I'm digging in google to try to find what that weathering mechanism might
be as it's mighty interesting because that might actually be a way to
combat it. Maybe we can hasten that 'weathering' to a few days instead of
to a few months or years?????

http://www.japanese-antiquities.com/...ed-birth-bowl/
"Urushiol is an oily substance contained in the sap and when it is exposed
to humidity and warmth, an enzyme is activated that extracts oxygen from
water and supplies it to the urushiol. Then the urushiol solidifies, which
forms a hard film."

The Japanese have mastered a way to make Urushiol non inflammatory:
http://www.pentrace.net/east/wajima/urushi.html

Even so, the thicket is so thick that a human can't walk through it and it
goes over twenty feet high (see the pictures previously posted):
http://img338.yfrog.com/gal.php?g=po...hiolchapar.jpg

So, I'm not sure how I would even think of applying a herbicide to kill
huge amounts plants I can't even get to without hacking my way through
them.

But I do thank you for the idea. So far we've gotten a few good ideas. And,
if we can find a way to inactivate the urushiol from the toxicodendron in
less than a few months' time (i.e., hasten the weathering), we'd all be
doing the world a favor!

On Fri, 09 Apr 2010 17:58:05 -0400, Which Doktor wrote:

Ask your pharmacist about IvyBlock.

I didn't mention it but you can see a bottle of the stuff in the pictures I
posted at
http://img696.imageshack.us/slidesho...d=45906740.jpg

Apparently it's the same bentonite that drillers use.

I didn't mention it (because I was concentrating on the gloves), but I use
layering when I cut tunnels in the chaparral of Western Poison Oak
(Toxicodendron diversilobum or Rhus diversiloba):

1. Ivy Block on my hands and wrists (also face and neck, ankles and feet);
2. Nitrile gloves on my hands
3. Gauntlet style heavy leather work gloves (pig or deerskin mig welding
gloves)

Chemicals alone won't prevent poison oak rash at the huge concentrations
I'm being exposed to.

I can see the oils on my gloves and clothes before it turns black. It takes
a day or so to turn black but you can see the oil it's so thick (and it
takes only a few molecules, the size of a pin point, to give you a rash).

Elmo wrote:
On Fri, 09 Apr 2010 15:38:34 -0400, Steve W. wrote:

buy a pair of gauntlet style extrication gloves.
buy a pair of the sleeves sold there as well.

Interesting.

That's the kind of information I didn't have that I was looking for!

Most extrication gloves are over $100 per pair but some are more reasonable
for your average homeowner:
http://www.gomed-tech.com/catalog/mt...ion-gloves.htm
http://www.chibaglovescanada.com/
http://www.hansenfire.com/glovesWildland.htm
http://www.urbanhart.com/shopsite/pr...cuegloves.html

I like the "elastic cuff" and the fact they're available in XL sizes. Some
even have a silica gell over the ulna nerve. I'm wondering if the ample
"kevlar" and "cordura" and "safecut" and "reflex" will keep out the
chemical urushiol oil though ... as they don't seem to use leather or
rubber.

Also, hopefully these expensive but intriguing extrication gloves are
washable as the urushiol is infectious even after a century outside!


The outer layer offers NO protection other than normal abrasive
resistance. It is the layers under it that stop the oils and other
problem items.

They can be decontaminated for most other things so I would say washing
them isn't a problem.



--
Steve W.
(\___/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

Elmo wrote:
On Fri, 9 Apr 2010 14:39:00 -0700 (PDT), mike wrote:

P.S. I'd at least want to bulldoze a path so I could use herbicides.

I'd love that too! Unfortunately, the access to the areas I'm clearing is
very steep! I have to climb down a rope that I posted in the ground after
cutting through the tangle of poison oak.

What steepness of a soft hillside can a bulldozer go down?

I'm not sure how to measure the steepness of the access points, but, I'd
say a six-foot tall human is below the lip in about 9 or ten feet. That is,
in only a few steps (about four or so), you're already below where you
started. It's pretty steep.

I'll see if I can snap a picture of the steepness to give you an idea. If a
bobcat can get down a cliff, I'd LOVE to rent one and do it myself!

I've taken dozers down some pretty steep grades. How long is the graded
area before it levels off? A dozer with a winch on it would do the job
easily.



--
Steve W.
(\___/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

What steepness of a soft hillside can a bulldozer go down?


A bulldozer can go down a very steep slope. The problems occur when you
want to go back up. However the dozer comes with a blade attached so you
can make a road to the bottom. Some come with winches on the back. The
winch will allow you to manuver up and down the slope as well provided there
is a handy stump to fasten to. Brush cutters can be mounted on excavators.
The excavator will have the ability to reach quite a distance. You need
some machinery to clear the land and then you will need to apply a herbicide
such as Garlon several times to kill the new sprouts.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpYEr0h8f8s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qodc4bKR5gY

On Fri, 09 Apr 2010 18:45:43 -0400, wrote:

Roundup kills the root system, not just the leaves.

I understand. But did you look at the pictures of how thick the chaparral
is? No way will roundup work. Unless I'm missing something critical.
http://img338.imageshack.us/slidesho...hiolchapar.jpg

As in all threads, I can't put all the information in the first post so I
stuck with the relevancy for gloves. But, I did buy the Costco roundup
concentrate which costs IIRC about a hundred bucks.

I haven't been able to use the weed killer yet except on the areas I
already cut because there is no way I can think of to spray the stuff if I
can't even get my arm into the thicket more than a couple of feet.

I have to go hundreds of yards. The roundup can won't spray that far!

So, my plan for the roundup is to keep the path I've cut clear of NEW
poison oak growth.

But, even if the roundup did work, I'd still need good gloves to hack it
all up and carry it away, wouldn't I? Or do you suggest burning it where it
lies or doing some other composting of the poison oak leaves, stems, and
roots?

In article , Elmo wrote:
On Fri, 09 Apr 2010 20:32:26 GMT, Doug Miller wrote:

Work gloves? Who needs work gloves? I'm lucky enough to be pretty damn near
immune to the stuff, and I just pull it out with my bare hands.

Hi Doug,

I'm in the chaparral country, nowhere near the lush forests.

But let me advise you of something important ... there are only two kinds
of people with respect to poison oak/ivy:
- Those who have been sensitized (and therefore who get the rash) ...
- And ... those you have yet to be sensitized (but are never immune)!

Wrong. Some people simply don't react to it (or don't react much). I'm in that
category.

The bad news (for you) is that you are never immune to cell mediated
immunities such as that which urushiol causes - you just haven't been hit
with enough oil for your particular immune system to react (lucky you!).

That's exactly my point. I'm one of the lucky ones whose immune system won't
react unless it gets an almost impossibly high exposure.

Putting it another way, you just have a "lousy" immune system (luckily for
you), which doesn't react to the doses you have encountered so far in your
life. But, trust me (look it up if you don't believe me), you WILL get
poison oak eventually if you're exposed to the urushiol enough.

The point is that for some people, including me, "enough" is a very, very
large amount, much more than it's possible to get.

I once spent an entire day tearing the stuff out of a fenceline, barehanded.
By early afternoon, it had gotten hot enough that I stripped off my shirt. I
took no precautions whatever -- I'd been exposed to it enough as a teenager,
and not reacted, that I had no reason to worry. Shoving the stuff into
trashbags, I had my arms in it up to the shoulders. I was wearing cutoff
jeans, too, BTW, so no protection below mid-thigh, or above the waist.

That's a hell of a dose.

Four days later, I had one dime-sized spot of rash on my chest, and another on
one forearm -- and that was it.

Years later, as I was changing the brakes on our car at the edge of the
driveway (again wearing cutoffs) my wife walked up and asked me if I knew I
was sitting in poison ivy. Looked down -- huh. So I am. Oh, well. She was
surprised I didn't move -- told her I've been sitting on that plant for half
an hour already, so it's too late to make a difference.

No reaction.

I'm 52 years old. The episode with the fenceline is the *only* time in my
life I've ever had *any* reaction to it.


Nobody is "immune";

That simply isn't true.

some just haven't gotten a good enough dose to make
their immune system react ... and once it reacts ... it never forgets.

Neither is that.

My own experience shows that; I *did* react to it, though very, very mildly,
after the day on the fenceline, and, although I *know* I've been in contact
with it since (the brake job, for example, and just last year pulling weeds) I
have never reacted to it again, at all, ever.


Note: If you're on immunosuppressants, then you might not react even after
having been sensitized.

No immunosuppressants here.

On Fri, 09 Apr 2010 18:33:34 -0400, Steve W. wrote:

I've taken dozers down some pretty steep grades. How long is the graded
area before it levels off? A dozer with a winch on it would do the job
easily.

A small golf-cart sized bulldozer WOULD be very nice indeed! The area I'm
clearing is along a brook so all I really need is to bulldoze one side of
the brook for a few hundred yards (maybe about 500 yards in length).

I'm not sure how to measure steepness, but, I can throw a rock and hit the
top of trees at the bottom. I'm guessing that I'm thirty to fifty feet
above the bottom when I'm at the top. I'd say the bottom is about twenty or
thirty feet away from the top in terms of horizontal distance.

Can a small golf-cart sized bulldozer get down that?

Right now, by hand, I can only cut the seasonal stream itself. That is,
while I'm standing in the middle of the foot-wide stream, I can hack
straight above me and cut the poison oak vines enough so that I can walk
down the center of the stream. The opening above the water is about 3 feet
wide.

The banks are so steep, that even on the banks that I've cleared, you only
have a foot or two to place your feet and you constantly have to grab a
tree branch so as to not fall into the channel. I was going to dig at it
with a shovel to cut it away but a bulldozer the size of a golf cart would
be perfect.

The stream is never level but it's pretty flat at the bottom for most of
those 500 yards. I'd say the first 30 or 50 feet are the killer in terms of
steepness. If I can get the golf-cart sized bulldozer down and then back
up, that would be very nice.

I'll check if u-haul rents bulldozers...

On Fri, 09 Apr 2010 18:27:35 -0400, Steve W. wrote:

The outer layer offers NO protection other than normal abrasive
resistance. It is the layers under it that stop the oils and other
problem items.

They can be decontaminated for most other things so I would say washing
them isn't a problem.

Perfect! I'm gonna get me a pair of these extrication gloves!

On Fri, 09 Apr 2010 23:17:24 GMT, Doug Miller wrote:

The bad news (for you) is that you are never immune to cell mediated
immunities such as that which urushiol causes - you just haven't been hit
with enough oil for your particular immune system to react (lucky you!).

That's exactly my point. I'm one of the lucky ones whose immune system won't
react unless it gets an almost impossibly high exposure.

Hi Doug,

I'm glad you don't get a serious reaction to poison oak. You're one of the
lucky ones.

I did base my statements on research, e.g., see this which said almost
exactly what I said:
http://www.knoledge.org/oak/
"There are only two kinds of people: Those who get Poison Oak, and those
who are going to get it."

However, I did read what you wrote which is that you get it very slightly
and that you've been heavily exposed many times. (BTW, if you've seen the
black marks all over your clothes, as if someone attacked you with a black
marker, then you've been heavily exposed, in my opinion.)

Anyway, as I said, I'm very glad you are only slightly reactive to poison
oak urushiol. I hope, as you said, that it's a nearly permanent immunity as
almost all articles say the apparent immunity changes over time:

http://www.mdvaden.com/poison_oak.shtml
"Everybody including the "immune" should be cautious, because "immunity" to
poison oak may change. The term "immune" is a bit figurative, because it's
the immune system that generates the minor and severe rashes from poison
oak."

But, in the end, you probably don't have a whole lot of special effort
T-cells for the poison oak allergen. Lucky for you!
http://waynesword.palomar.edu/ww0802.htm#natural

Unfortunatly for me, and many others, I get it 100% of the time that cut
and visibly oozing poison oak stems come in contact with my skin. My
clothes are covered in black marks (see the pictures I originally posted of
my gloves, for example, which were only used a few times before they were
covered in black marks).
http://img696.yfrog.com/gal.php?g=45906740.jpg

On Fri, 9 Apr 2010 22:14:11 +0000 (UTC), Elmo wrote:

I'm digging in google to try to find what that weathering mechanism might
be as it's mighty interesting because that might actually be a way to
combat it. Maybe we can hasten that 'weathering' to a few days instead of
to a few months or years?????

While digging up, I found another reference to centuries-old "preserved"
specimens causing contact dermititis in people sensitive to urushiol.

Here's the reference said about PRESERVED specimens (i.e., not weathered):
http://www.mdvaden.com/poison_oak.shtml
"The urushiol can remain potent for months, even years. One resource
records that centuries-old preserved specimens of poison oak caused
dermatitis to people sensitive to urushiol. Urushiol can remain active on
dead plants for as much as 5 years, and on unwashed clothing for a year or
two."

I'm surprised the urushiol remained potent far longer on outdoor plants (5
years) than on indoor unwashed clothing (1 or 2 years); but one take away
is that just killing the plant doesn't solve the problem of needing gloves
to remove the huge piles of dead plants blocking access.

But, I'm liking the bulldozer idea more and more as we speak ...

Kat Rabun wrote:
On Fri, 09 Apr 2010 18:45:43 -0400, wrote:

Roundup kills the root system, not just the leaves.

I understand. But did you look at the pictures of how thick the chaparral
is? No way will roundup work. Unless I'm missing something critical.
http://img338.imageshack.us/slidesho...hiolchapar.jpg

No workee...

....

But, even if the roundup did work, I'd still need good gloves to hack it
all up and carry it away, wouldn't I? Or do you suggest burning it where it
lies or doing some other composting of the poison oak leaves, stems, and
roots?

If this is anywhere near any other residential area, whatever you do,
don't try to burn it. It doesn't completely destroy the stuff and
inhaled it's worse internally than simply the external itch/sores...

If it's this bad I'd probably be considering ought to be working in
Tyvek coveralls, etc., treating it as essentially as if it were a
hazardous waste site.

W/o the pictures, etc., of terrain and so on, hard to say, but sounds
almost like need to start w/ the chain saw and just slice 'n dice to get
thru the big stuff.

What are you doing to dispose of it???

--

On Fri, 09 Apr 2010 18:45:43 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 9 Apr 2010 21:50:03 +0000 (UTC), Elmo
wrote:

On Fri, 9 Apr 2010 17:06:29 -0400, EXT wrote:

I kill it off with 24d and wait 6 months or so before trying to clear
it.

That would be my preferred method.

Mine too! If it would work.

Unfortunately, killing the leaves does nothing to clear the thicket of the
infectious stems and roots.


Roundup kills the root system, not just the leaves. There are
different solutions of Roundup. The full strength stuff is about $100
a gallon. I obliterated a large stand of Bamboo that didn't grow back.
Bamboo is a lot harder to get rid of than any poison ivy and poison
oak. Some people claim the only way to get rid of Bamboo permanently
is to remove all the earth and dispose of it elsewhere.
The p[roblem with roundup and poison ivy is the oil on the plant
protects it from the roundup. A friend found adding a couple ounces of
diesel fuel to a gallon of roundup improved the kill-rate on poison
ivy by several hundred percent. It helped the roundup penetrate the
oily defence.

On Fri, 9 Apr 2010 23:55:44 +0000 (UTC), Elmo
wrote:

On Fri, 9 Apr 2010 22:14:11 +0000 (UTC), Elmo wrote:

I'm digging in google to try to find what that weathering mechanism might
be as it's mighty interesting because that might actually be a way to
combat it. Maybe we can hasten that 'weathering' to a few days instead of
to a few months or years?????

While digging up, I found another reference to centuries-old "preserved"
specimens causing contact dermititis in people sensitive to urushiol.

Here's the reference said about PRESERVED specimens (i.e., not weathered):
http://www.mdvaden.com/poison_oak.shtml
"The urushiol can remain potent for months, even years. One resource
records that centuries-old preserved specimens of poison oak caused
dermatitis to people sensitive to urushiol. Urushiol can remain active on
dead plants for as much as 5 years, and on unwashed clothing for a year or
two."

I'm surprised the urushiol remained potent far longer on outdoor plants (5
years) than on indoor unwashed clothing (1 or 2 years); but one take away
is that just killing the plant doesn't solve the problem of needing gloves
to remove the huge piles of dead plants blocking access.

But, I'm liking the bulldozer idea more and more as we speak ...
Whatever you do, don't burn the stuff. The smoke is also "active"
unless you can get it up over something like 1500C, consistently.