On Apr 9, 2:30*pm, Elmo dcdraftwo...@Use-Author-Supplied-
Address.invalid wrote:
What work gloves do you use for repeated immersion in very heavy
impenetrable thickets of poison oak & poison ivy?

I'm covered in black poison urushiol from head to toe!

So far, these are the gloves I've tried (most of which failed miserably)!
- Pics hehttp://yfrog.com/jc45906740jx
- Albumhttp://img696.imageshack.us/slideshow/webplayer.php?id=45906740.jpg

Specifically, what skin is best for repeated washings?
- cowhide? goatskin? deerskin? what skin is best?
And, what gloves are available that are long and durable?
- garden gloves? oxy-welder's gloves? mig welders gloves? (what else?)

Cotton/leather work gloves are wholly unsatisfactory:
- They wash well; but the thin leather is worn out after 1 or two uses;
- They're too short to be of much use in heavy infestations;
- Worse yet, the back cotton allows urushiol to penetrate to the skin!

Leather work gloves are slightly better, but still wholly unsatisfactory:
- They're strong enough to take the wear of a few uses in the chapparal;
- But they're too short so my wrists get covered in the black oil;
- Worse yet, an XL comes out of the wash as an L which is smaller still;
- Yet the leather gets hard as a rock after a few wash cycles!

Cowhide oxy-acetylene welder's gloves are also unsatisfactory:
- They're nicely long so they cover the wrists perfectly;
- And, it's no problem finding an XL size to fit my large hands;
- And they're thick enough not to wear through on the first few uses;
- And they come out of repeated wash cycles as hard as serpentine!
- But they're just too cumbersome to use around power trimming tools!

I just tried the pigskin mig-welding gloves with some success:
- They're nicely long, almost as long as the O2 welder's gloves;
- They're all leather like the leather garden gloves so they're strong;
- And the leather is thinner than gas welder's gloves (nice and nimble);
- And, you can get them in XL sizes which don't seem to shrink too much;
- But they too get hard as a rock after repeated wash cycles!

Next I'm going to try the goatskin mig welding gloves:
- Like the pigskin mig welding gloves, they're long & seemingly durable;
- And, they seem to give a bit more "feel" than the pigskin gloves do;
- Also, I can get them in XL sizes (but I hope they don't shrink too much);
- Mostly, I hope they don't get as rock hard after a few wash cycles.

If the goatskin mig welding gloveds don't work, I'll try the deerskin mig
welding gloves; but there must be someone out there who has worked in heavy
impenetrable thickets of poison oak and/or poison ivy and/or poison sumac
who has solved this problem.

What other gloves can you recommend for protection when cutting through
heavy thickets of poison oak, when you're covered in black urushiol marks
from head to toe?

Requirements a
- Available in size XL (and needs to stay XL after repeated washing!)
- Must be durable (can't have any cloth) and must cover the wrists!
- But can't be so thick as to hinder the use of power tool controls.
- A bonus would be if it stays pliable after repeated machine washings!

WHATEVER YOU DO DONT BURN IT. THE SMOKE IS LETHAL.

Jimmie

In article , Elmo wrote:
On Fri, 09 Apr 2010 23:17:24 GMT, Doug Miller wrote:

The bad news (for you) is that you are never immune to cell mediated
immunities such as that which urushiol causes - you just haven't been hit
with enough oil for your particular immune system to react (lucky you!).

That's exactly my point. I'm one of the lucky ones whose immune system won't
react unless it gets an almost impossibly high exposure.

Hi Doug,

I'm glad you don't get a serious reaction to poison oak. You're one of the
lucky ones.

I did base my statements on research, e.g., see this which said almost
exactly what I said:
http://www.knoledge.org/oak/
"There are only two kinds of people: Those who get Poison Oak, and those
who are going to get it."

However, I did read what you wrote which is that you get it very slightly
and that you've been heavily exposed many times. (BTW, if you've seen the
black marks all over your clothes, as if someone attacked you with a black
marker, then you've been heavily exposed, in my opinion.)

Clothes, hell. I've had them on my skin.

Anyway, as I said, I'm very glad you are only slightly reactive to poison
oak urushiol.

Yeah, me too. :-)

I hope, as you said, that it's a nearly permanent immunity as
almost all articles say the apparent immunity changes over time:

http://www.mdvaden.com/poison_oak.shtml
"Everybody including the "immune" should be cautious, because "immunity" to
poison oak may change. The term "immune" is a bit figurative, because it's
the immune system that generates the minor and severe rashes from poison
oak."

But, in the end, you probably don't have a whole lot of special effort
T-cells for the poison oak allergen. Lucky for you!

Yep! :-)

http://waynesword.palomar.edu/ww0802.htm#natural

Unfortunatly for me, and many others, I get it 100% of the time that cut
and visibly oozing poison oak stems come in contact with my skin. My
clothes are covered in black marks (see the pictures I originally posted of
my gloves, for example, which were only used a few times before they were
covered in black marks).
http://img696.yfrog.com/gal.php?g=45906740.jpg

My younger son, and my sister-in-law, would have both required hospitalization
if they had done what I did. My older son probably would have had much the
same response that I did -- essentially none.

Elmo wrote:
On Fri, 9 Apr 2010 22:14:11 +0000 (UTC), Elmo wrote:

I'm digging in google to try to find what that weathering mechanism might
be as it's mighty interesting because that might actually be a way to
combat it. Maybe we can hasten that 'weathering' to a few days instead of
to a few months or years?????

While digging up, I found another reference to centuries-old "preserved"
specimens causing contact dermititis in people sensitive to urushiol.

Here's the reference said about PRESERVED specimens (i.e., not weathered):
http://www.mdvaden.com/poison_oak.shtml
"The urushiol can remain potent for months, even years. One resource
records that centuries-old preserved specimens of poison oak caused
dermatitis to people sensitive to urushiol. Urushiol can remain active on
dead plants for as much as 5 years, and on unwashed clothing for a year or
two."

I'm surprised the urushiol remained potent far longer on outdoor plants (5
years) than on indoor unwashed clothing (1 or 2 years); but one take away
is that just killing the plant doesn't solve the problem of needing gloves
to remove the huge piles of dead plants blocking access.

But, I'm liking the bulldozer idea more and more as we speak ...

Based on previous threads here, and a few real-world stories- running a
bulldozer anywhere near flowing water is fraught with bureaucratic and
legal peril, leastways if a neighbor gets a burr up their butt about it,
like if you make the water start running muddy, or if the creek supports
any lifeforms. Corps of Engineers, state DNR, state and federal EPA,
local drain district authority, the list is endless.

No, common sense has nothing to do with it.

Just sayin'

--
aem sends...

There are hand creams on the market that you can apply in advance, and wash
off afterward. Mechanics use this type of thing to make hand washing easier
at the end of the day. I understand fire fighters also use this stuff when
they have to go into a burning area with poison oak.

Use nitrile or latex gloves and cover them with leather gloves.
The nitrile is to protect you from the gloves and the gloves from
hard work that tears plastic.

Take leather off and you can spray them down with a soap.

Then wash hands in soapy water (with gloves on) and dry off with
paper towels and throw them away.

Then take off the plastic gloves and run for your life!

We have it all over here - roundup takes it out - but sometimes
it is so big - 1/4" stalk - that it takes several treatments.

Martin

Elmo wrote:
On Fri, 9 Apr 2010 11:32:58 -0700 (PDT), jamesgangnc wrote:

http://img696.imageshack.us/g/45906740.jpg/
Go cheap and just throw them away when you are finished.

Cheap would be fine if it also worked (at least once).

But, as shown in the well-annotated pictures here (
http://img696.imageshack.us/slidesho...d=45906740.jpg ) ...

Neoprene or latex or nitrile gloves are cheap, but they tear in seconds
outdoors and they don't cover the wrists from urushiol (still, I wear them
UNDER the leather gloves) ...

Garden gloves are less cheap (about 10 bucks a pair); but they don't work
(too thin, too short, and too permiable too urushiol) ...

Welders gloveds are decidedly not cheap; and they seem to work the best (so
far); but I'm wasting lots of time and money on testing them one by one
(first oxy cowhide, then mig pigskin, and now mig goatskin (next would be
mig deerskin))...

Surely someone other than me has worked in poison oak/ivy before me?

What do outdoor firefighters use for gloves?
What do outdoor field workers use for gloves?

Certainly someone must have the experience & recommendation that I lack for
outdoor gloves that are long, durable, and can be washed repeatedly???

Here are my experiments so far (deerskin mig welding gloves are next):
http://img696.imageshack.us/slidesho...d=45906740.jpg

On Fri, 09 Apr 2010 22:53:43 -0500, Martin H. Eastburn wrote:

Use nitrile or latex gloves and cover them with leather gloves.

That's good advice and I already wear Costco nitrile gloves under my
pigskin mig-welding gloves.

You can see the box of nitrile gloves in the picture posted previously:
http://yfrog.com/jc45906740jx

However, some say urushiol readily permeates latex )i.e., rubber) so I
wouldn't recommend rubber latex gloves withought further study.

http://www.drreddy.com/poisonivy.html
"urushiol can also penetrate clothes, rubber gloves, and latex gloves.
(Heavy-duty vinyl gloves are impervious to urushiol"

http://beatpsoriasis.com/poison-ivy.htm
"Urushiol can penetrate latex gloves but not rubber gloves."

http://www.infocusnews.net/content/view/38496/1189/
"use precautions such as vinyl gloves because urushiol can penetrate latex
gloves"

http://www.naturalpedia.com/URUSHIOL.html
"If you're going to be pulling weeds, wear heavy-duty vinyl gloves. The
resin may be able to penetrate rubber (latex)"

On Fri, 9 Apr 2010 19:20:17 -0700, Leo Lichtman wrote:

There are hand creams on the market that you can apply in advance, and wash
off afterward.

The use of hand cremes on the knees and ankles might prevent Toxicodendron
dermatitis in those unexpected spots.

I sometimes find when the urushiol is so thick, it leaves black oxidized
marks on my ankles after a few hours tromping around as noted he
http://www.drreddy.com/poisonivy.html

Then, the Rhus Dermititis rash is almost certain to occur.

If I had put a hand creme all over my body, especially my knees and ankles,
maybe it would have prevented these unexpected infections.

"jamesgangnc" wrote in message
...
On Apr 9, 2:30 pm, Elmo dcdraftwo...@Use-Author-Supplied-
Address.invalid wrote:
What work gloves do you use for repeated immersion in very heavy
impenetrable thickets of poison oak & poison ivy?

I'm covered in black poison urushiol from head to toe!

So far, these are the gloves I've tried (most of which failed miserably)!
- Pics hehttp://yfrog.com/jc45906740jx
- Albumhttp://img696.imageshack.us/slideshow/webplayer.php?id=45906740.jpg

Specifically, what skin is best for repeated washings?
- cowhide? goatskin? deerskin? what skin is best?
And, what gloves are available that are long and durable?
- garden gloves? oxy-welder's gloves? mig welders gloves? (what else?)

Cotton/leather work gloves are wholly unsatisfactory:
- They wash well; but the thin leather is worn out after 1 or two uses;
- They're too short to be of much use in heavy infestations;
- Worse yet, the back cotton allows urushiol to penetrate to the skin!

Leather work gloves are slightly better, but still wholly unsatisfactory:
- They're strong enough to take the wear of a few uses in the chapparal;
- But they're too short so my wrists get covered in the black oil;
- Worse yet, an XL comes out of the wash as an L which is smaller still;
- Yet the leather gets hard as a rock after a few wash cycles!

Cowhide oxy-acetylene welder's gloves are also unsatisfactory:
- They're nicely long so they cover the wrists perfectly;
- And, it's no problem finding an XL size to fit my large hands;
- And they're thick enough not to wear through on the first few uses;
- And they come out of repeated wash cycles as hard as serpentine!
- But they're just too cumbersome to use around power trimming tools!

I just tried the pigskin mig-welding gloves with some success:
- They're nicely long, almost as long as the O2 welder's gloves;
- They're all leather like the leather garden gloves so they're strong;
- And the leather is thinner than gas welder's gloves (nice and nimble);
- And, you can get them in XL sizes which don't seem to shrink too much;
- But they too get hard as a rock after repeated wash cycles!

Next I'm going to try the goatskin mig welding gloves:
- Like the pigskin mig welding gloves, they're long & seemingly durable;
- And, they seem to give a bit more "feel" than the pigskin gloves do;
- Also, I can get them in XL sizes (but I hope they don't shrink too
much);
- Mostly, I hope they don't get as rock hard after a few wash cycles.

If the goatskin mig welding gloveds don't work, I'll try the deerskin mig
welding gloves; but there must be someone out there who has worked in
heavy
impenetrable thickets of poison oak and/or poison ivy and/or poison sumac
who has solved this problem.

What other gloves can you recommend for protection when cutting through
heavy thickets of poison oak, when you're covered in black urushiol marks
from head to toe?

Requirements a
- Available in size XL (and needs to stay XL after repeated washing!)
- Must be durable (can't have any cloth) and must cover the wrists!
- But can't be so thick as to hinder the use of power tool controls.
- A bonus would be if it stays pliable after repeated machine washings!

Go cheap and just throw them away when you are finished.


That's what I do...I buy the big bag of brown cheapo gloves at Wal*Mart and
toss them...Works for me and I'm VERY allergic to that stuff...HTH...Why
make it more complicated than it needs to be??

On Sat, 10 Apr 2010 00:47:32 -0400, benick wrote:

I buy the big bag of brown cheapo gloves at Wal*Mart and
toss them...Works for me and I'm VERY allergic to that stuff...

The only problem with that is the typical "work glove" is too short to
cover the wrists as can be seen in the original photos posted at
http://yfrog.com/jc45906740jx
http://img696.imageshack.us/slidesho...d=45906740.jpg

I find my wrists are constantly lacerated by the millions of cut branches,
hence, the need for a gauntlet type work glove (harder to find, and more
expensive).

Also, the urushiol oil easily penetrates most cloth gloves and some say it
can penetrate thin leathers, both of which are likely in el cheapo work
gloves.

Good gloves are necessary given the huge amount of poison oak to be cleared
is an impenetrable jungle as shown in these photos here
http://yfrog.com/9epoisonoakurushiolchaparjx
http://img338.imageshack.us/slidesho...hiolchapar.jpg

BTW, I found this article while searching that suggests powders such as
starch or flour ... interesting ...
http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasc.../chem03357.htm

On Sat, 10 Apr 2010 01:20:01 GMT, Doug Miller wrote:

My younger son, and my sister-in-law, would have both required hospitalization
if they had done what I did. My older son probably would have had much the
same response that I did -- essentially none.

Based on what it says in this web site, you and your older son probably
react onlty to three or more degrees of saturation on the carbon chain
hanging off the urushiol catechol while your son and sinister in law likely
react to the unsaturated chain or one or two degrees of saturation:

See http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Urushiol
"The allergic reaction is dependent on the degree of unsaturation of the
alkyl chain. Less than half of the general population reacts with the
saturated urushiol alone, but over 90% react with urushiol containing at
least two degrees of unsaturation (double bonds)."

aemeijers wrote:

Based on previous threads here, and a few real-world stories- running a
bulldozer anywhere near flowing water is fraught with bureaucratic and
legal peril, leastways if a neighbor gets a burr up their butt about it,
like if you make the water start running muddy, or if the creek supports
any lifeforms. Corps of Engineers, state DNR, state and federal EPA,
local drain district authority, the list is endless.

No, common sense has nothing to do with it.

Just sayin'



Yeah it can get interesting depending on where you are and what you do.
The stream that runs behind my place is a "Class 2 trout habitat" Get
caught in the stream with any machinery (other than a farm tractor
crossing the stream) and the state gets nasty.

So DON'T get CAUGHT!!!!!

--
Steve W.

On Sat, 10 Apr 2010 01:20:01 GMT, Doug Miller wrote:

Clothes, hell. I've had them on my skin.

Anyway, as I said, I'm very glad you are only slightly reactive to poison
oak urushiol.

Yeah, me too. :-)

For your sake though, you should not tramp through the poison oak with
impugnity.

Notice Wayne himself, in Waynesworld, says he used to be immune ... until
....
http://waynesword.palomar.edu/ww0802.htm
"Caution: Cutting and sanding poison oak wood is extremely unwise and
hazardous--even if you think you are immune to its dermatitis. This is how
one of the authors (WPA) was rudely initiated into the ranks of poison oak
sufferers, after tramping through it for decades with impunity."

On Sat, 10 Apr 2010 05:02:57 +0000 (UTC), Elmo
wrote:


Good gloves are necessary given the huge amount of poison oak to be cleared
is an impenetrable jungle as shown in these photos here
http://yfrog.com/9epoisonoakurushiolchaparjx
http://img338.imageshack.us/slidesho...hiolchapar.jpg

BTW, I found this article while searching that suggests powders such as
starch or flour ... interesting ...
http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasc.../chem03357.htm


Oil field gloves are what you want....

http://unitedglove.thomasnet.com/cat...-coated-gloves

http://unitedglove.thomasnet.com/vie...sable-sleeves?

http://unitedglove.thomasnet.com/vie...l-with-collar?

Nearly everyone in my neck of the woods wears rubber oil patch gloves.

Gunner


"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost

Elmo wrote:
What work gloves do you use for repeated immersion in very heavy
impenetrable thickets of poison oak & poison ivy?

I'm covered in black poison urushiol from head to toe!


I'd try welder's gloves (or similar) to keep from getting burned as I
operated the flame-thrower. (Don't forget the ear, eye, nose, throat, and
underarm protection.)

On Sat, 10 Apr 2010 08:37:56 -0500, HeyBub wrote:

What work gloves do you use for repeated immersion in very heavy
impenetrable thickets of poison oak & poison ivy?
I'm covered in black poison urushiol from head to toe!

I'd try welder's gloves (or similar) to keep from getting burned as I
operated the flame-thrower. (Don't forget the ear, eye, nose, throat, and
underarm protection.)

I am currently using arc welders gloves as the flame welder's gloves were
way too thick to operate gas cutting equipment.

The only problem with these mig welding gloves is they don't handle
repeated washings well. http://yfrog.com/jc45906740jx

I'm trying to find which is the best skin for washing:
- deerskin gloves?
- kangaroo skin gloves?
- cowhide gloves?
- pigskin gloves?
- goatskin gloves?

Here is a comparison of the various skins, but not with respect to phenols:
http://www.unitedglove.com/leather.htm

I really like the idea of a flame thrower ... But in the dry chaparral,
not only would the smoke itself be dangerous (urushiol, being a
hydrocarbon, can burn but being an oil, it can also form droplets in the
air which can be inhaled), but the fire itself would need to be contained.

On Fri, 9 Apr 2010 18:30:08 +0000 (UTC), Elmo wrote:

Requirements a
- Available in size XL (and needs to stay XL after repeated washing!)
- Must be durable (can't have any cloth) and must cover the wrists!
- But can't be so thick as to hinder the use of power tool controls.
- A bonus would be if it stays pliable after repeated machine washings!

http://www.unitedglove.com/leather.htm

a) Cowhide dries stiff when it gets wet, becoming hard and losing its
flexibility.
b) Goatskin leather has the highest natural lanolin content, which makes a
very soft and flexible glove that retains its pliability after getting wet.
c) Deerskin gloves do not stiffen after getting wet repeatedly and form to
the hand over time.
d) High lanolin content keeps pigskin leather soft which does not dry out
and crack after repeatedly getting wet.

So, it looks like, for repeated washings, you want:
1) Goatskin
2) Pigskin
3) Deerskin
4) Cowhide

In that order.

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

On Sat, 10 Apr 2010 11:44:13 -0700, Leo Lichtman wrote:

I would try using the cream on hands, forearms and other
areas where you have experienced the problem, and rely on some kind of
coveralls for full body protection.

I didn't mention it but I subscribe to the multi-layer approach with
respect to the whole body.

So I wear long pants and a long-sleeved shirt under my mechanics overalls
(coveralls?). And I wear nitrile gloves under the goatskin gauntlet style
mig/tig welding gloves.

Still, I'm so covered in the urushiol catechols that my wrists have visible
phenolic black marks from scrapes with the oxidized and polymerized
urushiol, especially when it's wet or when I sweat a lot.

So, the hand creme might be a good third layer on my wrists.

About the only part of my body exposed to the elements is my face, neck,
and ears ... but for some reason, they don't seem to get the rash as much
as my wrists, between my fingers, and on my ankles and toes.

On Fri, 9 Apr 2010 18:30:08 +0000 (UTC), Elmo
wrote:

What work gloves do you use for repeated immersion in very heavy
impenetrable thickets of poison oak & poison ivy?


Some folks with Indian blood are immune, you can get them to remove it
for you. Or, apply Roundup, repeat every 2-3 weeks if needed. If I
needed to actually handle it myself I'd use rubber surgery gloves.

On Sat, 10 Apr 2010 22:34:07 -0400, Phisherman wrote:

Or, apply Roundup, repeat every 2-3 weeks if needed. If I
needed to actually handle it myself I'd use rubber surgery gloves.

Everyone keeps suggesting Roundup. Maybe I'm missing something basic here.

Remember, we're talking a JUNGLE of intertwined vines. How am I supposed to
get Roundup a hundred yards from where I can't access, let alone five feet
from the thicket I'm trying to penetrate?

What am I missing that more than one person says Roundup will do the job?

We're talking hedgerow-thick impenetrable chaparral so thick a human can't
get more than a couple of feet into it before being stopped by the vines,
many of which are an inch to two inches thick along with the thinner stuff
as shown in the pictures previously posted.

http://img338.imageshack.us/slidesho...hiolchapar.jpg
http://img696.imageshack.us/slidesho...d=45906740.jpg

Anyone suggesting Roundup either knows something I can't possibly fathom (I
certainly hope so), or, they haven't seen the pictures (which is
understandable).

Maybe they know of a dissemination method that I haven't thought of, being
that there's no way to disburse Roundup a hundred yards from what you can
actually acess, let alone five to twenty feet from where you're standing.

Or is there???? How can Roundup possibly be disseminated thru these
impenetrable thickets (see the pictures)???????????????

On Sun, 11 Apr 2010 05:39:16 +0000 (UTC), Elmo
wrote:

On Sat, 10 Apr 2010 22:34:07 -0400, Phisherman wrote:

Or, apply Roundup, repeat every 2-3 weeks if needed. If I
needed to actually handle it myself I'd use rubber surgery gloves.

Everyone keeps suggesting Roundup. Maybe I'm missing something basic here.

Remember, we're talking a JUNGLE of intertwined vines. How am I supposed to
get Roundup a hundred yards from where I can't access, let alone five feet
from the thicket I'm trying to penetrate?

What am I missing that more than one person says Roundup will do the job?

We're talking hedgerow-thick impenetrable chaparral so thick a human can't
get more than a couple of feet into it before being stopped by the vines,
many of which are an inch to two inches thick along with the thinner stuff
as shown in the pictures previously posted.

http://img338.imageshack.us/slidesho...hiolchapar.jpg
http://img696.imageshack.us/slidesho...d=45906740.jpg

Anyone suggesting Roundup either knows something I can't possibly fathom (I
certainly hope so), or, they haven't seen the pictures (which is
understandable).

Maybe they know of a dissemination method that I haven't thought of, being
that there's no way to disburse Roundup a hundred yards from what you can
actually acess, let alone five to twenty feet from where you're standing.

Or is there???? How can Roundup possibly be disseminated thru these
impenetrable thickets (see the pictures)???????????????

Well..you can use a pressure sprayer and simply hose a few gallons out
there.

But..Id really suggest either a dozer..or fire. Both have risks and
require some planning.

Gunner


"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost

On Sun, 11 Apr 2010 04:47:22 -0700, Gunner Asch wrote:

Or is there???? How can Roundup possibly be disseminated thru these
impenetrable thickets (see the pictures)???????????????

Well..you can use a pressure sprayer and simply hose a few gallons out
there.
But..Id really suggest either a dozer..or fire. Both have risks and
require some

I was thinking helicopter since the canyon sides may be too steep to get a
bulldozer in there ...

Seriously, I do have a pressure washer, but, wouldn't it use a LOT of
Roundup since it feeds from a garden hose? The garden hose is problematic
since there isn't a faucet within 500 yeards of the thicket I'm trying to
hack my way through. Plus, I'm not trying to clear a square area; I'm
cutting a path along the bank of a small stream where the stream itself is
choked with poison ivy so the first pass is the stream, the second pass is
the bank.

Lately I've been using a chain saw as my "light saber", standing in the
center of the stream channel, holding the chain saw high above my head and
slashing down to allow myself forward movement. I only need to cut a
man-sized tunnel so I don't have to get all the vines that are above 7 feet
or so.

I also use the chain saw to slash the ground as there's about a foot of
intertwined dead poison oak vines on the floor of the chaparral canyon on
the sides of the bank - much of which scrapes against my ankles causing
rashes when I am not careful enough.

Likewise, fire seems problematic because I wouldn't know how to keep it in
a straight line and it's dry chaparral besides ... which, if it went up in
flames, could be very dangerous.

Back to the roundup ... I guess I could slash my way through the stream
channel ... and THEN I could apply roundup to the sides of the bank. But
I'd still have to wait a year or so for the urushiol to "weather" out of
the vines (some say it never weathers out, others say it does). And, after
that year has passed, then I can clear off the dead vines.

But, that doesn't seem to be any less work than slashing my way through the
vines with all the cutting tools at my disposal. Or maybe I'm missing a key
point???????

Elmo:

I come very late to this discussion, but have been reading your posts
for years and know you are very determined and usually find a
solution.

In this case, I have worked, lived, played, even had ...hmm, a few
"intimate experiences" unfortunately in and around poison oak.

So, that's some 42 years, if you count from about 8 years old.

The messages saying that the oil disappear after about a year or so,
are true in MY experience. I can't guarantee it for you and your
particular bushes. Maybe you have cream of the crop, top quality
hybrid poison oak and the oils last for centuries.

But for my Oregon poison oak on MY ranch, it lasts a year or so.

Unlucky enough to "get a rash." Zanfel is a wonder drug. Technu makes
a competing product that works just as well and is usually a little
cheaper. But neither are cheap. A small tube of the stuff is $25 or
more, but compared to poison oak misery, it's worth it. Just make
sure if you buy the Technu brand you are NOT buying just their
cleaner.

What you want is Technu EXTREME. You can google both Zanfel and
Technu to read about them.

A trip to the doctor also works, but is even more expensive and then
you get ultra high doses of steroids, which I prefer to avoid.

Finally, you'd be amazed at what a GOOD heavy equipment operator can
do for you, or the suggestions they can make. It wouldn't hurt to call
one to take a look. Pricewise, and misery-wise, you could come out way
ahead

Tim

Elmo wrote:
On Sun, 11 Apr 2010 04:47:22 -0700, Gunner Asch wrote:

Or is there???? How can Roundup possibly be disseminated thru these
impenetrable thickets (see the pictures)???????????????
Well..you can use a pressure sprayer and simply hose a few gallons out
there.
But..Id really suggest either a dozer..or fire. Both have risks and
require some

I was thinking helicopter since the canyon sides may be too steep to get a
bulldozer in there ...

Seriously, I do have a pressure washer, but, wouldn't it use a LOT of
Roundup since it feeds from a garden hose? The garden hose is problematic
since there isn't a faucet within 500 yeards of the thicket I'm trying to
hack my way through. Plus, I'm not trying to clear a square area; I'm
cutting a path along the bank of a small stream where the stream itself is
choked with poison ivy so the first pass is the stream, the second pass is
the bank.

Lately I've been using a chain saw as my "light saber", standing in the
center of the stream channel, holding the chain saw high above my head and
slashing down to allow myself forward movement. I only need to cut a
man-sized tunnel so I don't have to get all the vines that are above 7 feet
or so.

I also use the chain saw to slash the ground as there's about a foot of
intertwined dead poison oak vines on the floor of the chaparral canyon on
the sides of the bank - much of which scrapes against my ankles causing
rashes when I am not careful enough.

Likewise, fire seems problematic because I wouldn't know how to keep it in
a straight line and it's dry chaparral besides ... which, if it went up in
flames, could be very dangerous.

Back to the roundup ... I guess I could slash my way through the stream
channel ... and THEN I could apply roundup to the sides of the bank. But
I'd still have to wait a year or so for the urushiol to "weather" out of
the vines (some say it never weathers out, others say it does). And, after
that year has passed, then I can clear off the dead vines.

But, that doesn't seem to be any less work than slashing my way through the
vines with all the cutting tools at my disposal. Or maybe I'm missing a key
point???????

Dumb question- why do you need access to this creek bed? Simple
contrariness, and a desire to walk wherever you please on your property?
Your best dog keeps getting stuck down there?

Mother nature has clearly labeled that a no-human zone. I'd be inclined
to post a few signs and say the hell with it. A whole lotta work to kill
it and remove it, and keep it from coming back.

--
aem sends...

On Sun, 11 Apr 2010 09:43:04 -0700 (PDT), tim birr wrote:

What you want is Technu EXTREME. You can google both Zanfel and
Technu to read about them.
you'd be amazed at what a GOOD heavy equipment operator can
do for you, or the suggestions they can make.

Hi Tim,

Thanks for the well worded advice. Maximum mysery, for me, seems to occur
three to five days after a heavy exposure to the three-leaved devil. I have
used the prophylactic ivyblock but not the Technu yet (didn't know about
"extreme" ... will check that out). My strategy is to prevent the resinous
catechols from touching my skin, hence the persistent need for
gauntlet-style nimble gloves.

On the topic of the method of clearing, I do think airlifting some heavy
equipment out there might work ... save for the cliff (as yet unknown
whether it's climbable) ... but, truth be told, I actually enjoy the
challenge and the exercise of hand clearing the land for the path along the
ravine brook.

Like you, the neighbors tell me to just hire some of the "day workers"
(they use a slightly different term) who frequent the hardware stores
around here so thickly that you'd think you're the object of adolation, at
least while driving up the driveway to the Home Depot.

I'm told "they are immune" or "don't know better", and for the $10/hour
(cash only for some strange reason) it costs per man, a crew of five would
likely clear the path in a day or three.

However, I do my own work, and enjoy it. The price is always to be paid,
and, in this case, the cost is the learning that must be done to deal with
thine enemy - that resinous sap of the redoubtable Toxicodendron
diversilobum species!

Elmo

On Sun, 11 Apr 2010 12:55:37 -0400, aemeijers wrote:

Dumb question- why do you need access to this creek bed?

Just to enjoy a meandering walk along its banks.

Elmo wrote:
On Sun, 11 Apr 2010 12:55:37 -0400, aemeijers wrote:

Dumb question- why do you need access to this creek bed?

Just to enjoy a meandering walk along its banks.

Okay, that puts it in same class as mountain climbing- 'because it is
there'. Well, unless you kill yourself with the hazmat side effects, I
guess it is cheaper than a gym membership. :^/

Not a flame, mind you. I do understand. No SWMBO with a honey-do list,
on the premises?

--
aem sends....

On Sun, 11 Apr 2010 16:45:33 -0400, aemeijers wrote:

Dumb question- why do you need access to this creek bed?
Just to enjoy a meandering walk along its banks.
Okay, I guess it is cheaper than a gym membership.

I do consider it healthy exercise.

Just climbing out of the ravine gets me huffing and puffing.

Plus it's a few thousand feet up already (I don't know when the air gets
thinner noticably though so the height may not matter).

On Sun, 11 Apr 2010 14:48:48 +0000 (UTC), Elmo
wrote:

On Sun, 11 Apr 2010 04:47:22 -0700, Gunner Asch wrote:

Or is there???? How can Roundup possibly be disseminated thru these
impenetrable thickets (see the pictures)???????????????

Well..you can use a pressure sprayer and simply hose a few gallons out
there.
But..Id really suggest either a dozer..or fire. Both have risks and
require some

I was thinking helicopter since the canyon sides may be too steep to get a
bulldozer in there ...

Seriously, I do have a pressure washer, but, wouldn't it use a LOT of
Roundup since it feeds from a garden hose? The garden hose is problematic
since there isn't a faucet within 500 yeards of the thicket I'm trying to
hack my way through. Plus, I'm not trying to clear a square area; I'm
cutting a path along the bank of a small stream where the stream itself is
choked with poison ivy so the first pass is the stream, the second pass is
the bank.

Lately I've been using a chain saw as my "light saber", standing in the
center of the stream channel, holding the chain saw high above my head and
slashing down to allow myself forward movement. I only need to cut a
man-sized tunnel so I don't have to get all the vines that are above 7 feet
or so.

I also use the chain saw to slash the ground as there's about a foot of
intertwined dead poison oak vines on the floor of the chaparral canyon on
the sides of the bank - much of which scrapes against my ankles causing
rashes when I am not careful enough.

Likewise, fire seems problematic because I wouldn't know how to keep it in
a straight line and it's dry chaparral besides ... which, if it went up in
flames, could be very dangerous.

Back to the roundup ... I guess I could slash my way through the stream
channel ... and THEN I could apply roundup to the sides of the bank. But
I'd still have to wait a year or so for the urushiol to "weather" out of
the vines (some say it never weathers out, others say it does). And, after
that year has passed, then I can clear off the dead vines.

But, that doesn't seem to be any less work than slashing my way through the
vines with all the cutting tools at my disposal. Or maybe I'm missing a key
point???????


Id say standing on the banks and spraying the entire canyon with a
pressure sprayer fed from a 55 gallon drum full of water/Roundup mix is
your only actual logical course of action..or run a dozer down the
center, to clear a path ou can later work from. But it will take you a
year or more to get it cleaned out properly.

Im curious..have you considered talking to the local state or Federal
fire battalion? This would be an excellent "practice burn" for them to
train on and it would solve most of your problems all at the same time
and in a fast fashion.


Gunner, who once had the local fire department burn down a house that
needed to go, as a training situation.




"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost