"bud--" wrote in message
...
wrote:
On Sat, 03 Apr 2010 02:35:22 -0600, bud--
wrote:

Stormin Mormon wrote:
I'd suggest to buy a three bulb tester at the store, and see what that
reads. Something sounds strange, with that set of readings.

The 3 lite tester uses a lot higher current than a digital meter so it
shouldn't show phantom voltage.

But it has its own problems. In particular, it can't test for sure there
is a good ground. As with a digital meter, you should know the
limitations of test equipment.
How can it not indicate there is a good ground? - or by good do
you mean a low resistance ground?If the ground is not connected, the
3 lite will show you.
But you are right - it cannot tell you if the ground is up to the
required standard.

I never had a 3 lite tester until rather recently. The package explicitly
said it would not determine if the ground was good. Also doesn't determine
if hot or neutral are good, but you can tell when you use the outlet.

There are other possibilities. Like if there is no ground and an idiot
wires a receptacle neutral to the ground, and then an idiot - the same or
new - replaces a receptacle upstream and accidentally swaps the hot and
neutral. The 3 lite tester will show the receptacle with a hot ground as
OK. Real unlikely, but ....

--
bud--

Wow. So, bottom line is, an analog meter is the only thing you can really
trust?

Dave wrote:
"bud--" wrote in message
...
wrote:
On Sat, 03 Apr 2010 02:35:22 -0600, bud--
wrote:

Stormin Mormon wrote:
I'd suggest to buy a three bulb tester at the store, and see what that
reads. Something sounds strange, with that set of readings.

The 3 lite tester uses a lot higher current than a digital meter so it
shouldn't show phantom voltage.

But it has its own problems. In particular, it can't test for sure there
is a good ground. As with a digital meter, you should know the
limitations of test equipment.
How can it not indicate there is a good ground? - or by good do
you mean a low resistance ground?If the ground is not connected, the
3 lite will show you.
But you are right - it cannot tell you if the ground is up to the
required standard.
I never had a 3 lite tester until rather recently. The package explicitly
said it would not determine if the ground was good. Also doesn't determine
if hot or neutral are good, but you can tell when you use the outlet.

There are other possibilities. Like if there is no ground and an idiot
wires a receptacle neutral to the ground, and then an idiot - the same or
new - replaces a receptacle upstream and accidentally swaps the hot and
neutral. The 3 lite tester will show the receptacle with a hot ground as
OK. Real unlikely, but ....

--
bud--

Wow. So, bottom line is, an analog meter is the only thing you can really
trust?




I believe there was a trick to make a digital meter NOT show phantom
voltage, but i don't remember what it is. I have a $6 meter in my bag
for house electrical issues. The digital is reserved for the automotive
use.

On 04/04/2010 05:56 PM, Dave wrote:
"Steve wrote in message
...
Dave wrote:
Question for the gurus. I just tested my housewiring (at the wall
outlet) and found that I have 120V AC between the hot and return, only I
can't tell which of the top two "slots" is hot and which is return. They
both show 59.4 VAC with referrence to the third (GND) terminal, on the
bottom. Huh? Anyone have any idea what might be going on with my house
wiring? It's an old house, built in '49 or '50, and has had numerous
pieces added and modified. I was in the attic once, installing the
wiring for a bathroom outlet, and got bit by the *white* wire, which
should have been my first clue something was wrong. When I asked someone
else about that though, was told that it might be normal, depending on
what had been put in place. :/

Any ideas or feedback are welcome. Hoping someone can explain this.
Also hoping I don't have to rewire my house...

Dave



Two things are happening here.
#1. You are using a digital meter, a no no on AC house diagnosis.
#2. Your outlet is not grounded.

Okay, you are correct on both counts. The outlet is not grounded, and I was
using my Fluke, which I trust more than the off-brand. Would an analog
meter give me a different reading from hot-gnd, or neutral-gnd? Hadn't
thought about it, but it probably would, wouldn't it? Have to check that
out. *Thank you*

Dave


yes, if you want to have the "best" meters, you'll have both a digital
Fluke and a Simpson 260. both are appropriate for different projects,
although either one will work in a pinch.

nate


--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 4/4/2010 3:15 PM Steve Barker spake thus:

Dave wrote:

Wow. So, bottom line is, an analog meter is the only thing you can
really trust?

I believe there was a trick to make a digital meter NOT show phantom
voltage, but i don't remember what it is.

Simple: put a large-ish resistance (say, 50-100K ohms) across the
leads to reduce the input impedance. This will shunt any phantom
(induced) voltages away from the meter.

A light bulb is better else you may forever have imprinted on your memory
the smell of a burning resistor.

On 4/4/2010 3:15 PM Steve Barker spake thus:

Dave wrote:

Wow. So, bottom line is, an analog meter is the only thing you can really
trust?

I believe there was a trick to make a digital meter NOT show phantom
voltage, but i don't remember what it is.

Simple: put a large-ish resistance (say, 50-100K ohms) across the leads
to reduce the input impedance. This will shunt any phantom (induced)
voltages away from the meter.


--
You were wrong, and I'm man enough to admit it.

- a Usenet "apology"

Well, you must be an engineer?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"David Nebenzahl"
wrote in message
.com...
A light bulb is better else you may forever have imprinted
on your memory
the smell of a burning resistor.

You're not going to get a burning resistor, Bub.

Do the math. Using Ohm's law, let's say we gots a 100K
resistor. If the
voltage is 120, the current through it is 1.2 mA, and the
power being
dissipated is a little more than 1/8 watt. So use a 1/4 watt
resistor if
you're paranoid. Maybe a 1/2 watt one for up to 240 volt
measurements.


--
You were wrong, and I'm man enough to admit it.

- a Usenet "apology"

On 4/4/2010 5:16 PM HeyBub spake thus:

David Nebenzahl wrote:

On 4/4/2010 3:15 PM Steve Barker spake thus:

Dave wrote:

Wow. So, bottom line is, an analog meter is the only thing you can
really trust?

I believe there was a trick to make a digital meter NOT show phantom
voltage, but i don't remember what it is.

Simple: put a large-ish resistance (say, 50-100K ohms) across the
leads to reduce the input impedance. This will shunt any phantom
(induced) voltages away from the meter.

A light bulb is better else you may forever have imprinted on your memory
the smell of a burning resistor.

You're not going to get a burning resistor, Bub.

Do the math. Using Ohm's law, let's say we gots a 100K resistor. If the
voltage is 120, the current through it is 1.2 mA, and the power being
dissipated is a little more than 1/8 watt. So use a 1/4 watt resistor if
you're paranoid. Maybe a 1/2 watt one for up to 240 volt measurements.


--
You were wrong, and I'm man enough to admit it.

- a Usenet "apology"

On Apr 4, 9:33*pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
Well, you must be an engineer?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
*www.lds.org


That is the biggest problem with engineers, they think they
can "engineer" their way to solving some problem that a
good technician with installation/repair experience can
diagnose almost immediately...

~ Evan

Dave wrote:
"bud--" wrote in message
...
wrote:
On Sat, 03 Apr 2010 02:35:22 -0600, bud--
wrote:

Stormin Mormon wrote:
I'd suggest to buy a three bulb tester at the store, and see what that
reads. Something sounds strange, with that set of readings.

The 3 lite tester uses a lot higher current than a digital meter so it
shouldn't show phantom voltage.

But it has its own problems. In particular, it can't test for sure there
is a good ground. As with a digital meter, you should know the
limitations of test equipment.
How can it not indicate there is a good ground? - or by good do
you mean a low resistance ground?If the ground is not connected, the
3 lite will show you.
But you are right - it cannot tell you if the ground is up to the
required standard.
I never had a 3 lite tester until rather recently. The package explicitly
said it would not determine if the ground was good. Also doesn't determine
if hot or neutral are good, but you can tell when you use the outlet.

There are other possibilities. Like if there is no ground and an idiot
wires a receptacle neutral to the ground, and then an idiot - the same or
new - replaces a receptacle upstream and accidentally swaps the hot and
neutral. The 3 lite tester will show the receptacle with a hot ground as
OK. Real unlikely, but ....

--
bud--

Wow. So, bottom line is, an analog meter is the only thing you can really
trust?

What can you use for shaving, cleaning you clothes and sleeping in?

The secret, IMHO, is to know the limitations of what you are using.

For a meter I would use my digital Fluke (which is category-rated). If I
saw odd low voltages I would check with a light bulb in a pigtail
socket. Fluke has meters that can be switched between high impedance and
lower impedance. You can get a good idea if a ground is good with the
pigtail light bulb. I most often use a neon test light. A 3-lite tester
gives some fast information. A "non-contact" voltage tester is real nice
sometimes. Check what Ralph wrote. Depends on what you want to find out.


What can you use for shaving, cleaning you clothes and sleeping in?
A razor, a brush and pajamas

--
bud--

On Sat, 03 Apr 2010 14:57:09 -0400, Nate Nagel
wrote:

[snip]

Three breakers for the A/C sounds hinky though. You should have one
double breaker for the A/C, period. If you can't figure that one out
yourself, you may wish to call an electrician to look at it - something
ain't right there.

nate

One double breaker (although I've seen 2 singles instead. They should
be next to each other) and another (single) for the blower?

On Fri, 02 Apr 2010 21:14:33 -0400, wrote:

[snip]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phantom_voltage
Or simply put a half meg-ohm or higher resistance across the leads of
your digital meter. It will "kill the Phantom"

It would be a good idea for meters to include such a feature. If the
reading changes, you know you've got a problem.

On Apr 5, 12:10*pm, Gary H wrote:
On Sat, 03 Apr 2010 14:57:09 -0400, Nate Nagel
wrote:

[snip]

Three breakers for the A/C sounds hinky though. *You should have one
double breaker for the A/C, period. *If you can't figure that one out
yourself, you may wish to call an electrician to look at it - something
ain't right there.

nate

One double breaker (although I've seen 2 singles instead. They should
be next to each other) and another (single) for the blower?

yabbut, he said that if any of the breakers were on that it'd work,
that can't possibly be right.

nate

In
,
Evan typed:
On Apr 4, 9:33 pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
Well, you must be an engineer?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org


That is the biggest problem with engineers, they think they
can "engineer" their way to solving some problem that a
good technician with installation/repair experience can
diagnose almost immediately...

~ Evan

Hmm, let's see, who should I trust? The engineer who
intuitively knows and understands what the max wattage will be
and its impact on the resistor? Something he knows
intuitively, BTW, and confirms almost instantly in his mind?
Or, should I trust the experienced one that says to use a
47 ohm resistor but actually only THINKS that's what it was?
Besides, a 47 ohm resistor won't "explode". We had to go all
the way down to a 2.2 1/8 watt before it'd explode the
resistor; that was one surprised tech when he turned his bench
on! Wish I could remember the composition; it wasn't carbon.
In many cases, such as this one, the engineer has MORE
experience in the outcome due to his knowledgable experience
than the "experienced" who simply depends on "it's always been
that way" and has no idea whether he's approaching a cold, a
hot, or a flaming resistor? They both have the experience;
but only one knows for sure it's the applicable experience to
that situation.

No, I'm not an inja-neer. I just understand reality.

HTH,

Twayne`

In ,
Nate Nagel typed:
On 04/04/2010 05:56 PM, Dave wrote:
"Steve wrote in message
...
Dave wrote:
Question for the gurus. I just tested my housewiring
(at the wall outlet) and found that I have 120V AC
between the hot and return, only I can't tell which of
the top two "slots" is hot and which is return. They
both show 59.4 VAC with referrence to the third (GND)
terminal, on the bottom. Huh? Anyone have any idea what
might be going on with my house wiring? It's an old
house, built in '49 or '50, and has had numerous pieces
added and modified. I was in the attic once, installing
the wiring for a bathroom outlet, and got bit by the
*white* wire, which should have been my first clue
something was wrong. When I asked someone else about
that though, was told that it might be normal, depending
on what had been put in place. :/ Any ideas or
feedback are welcome. Hoping someone can
explain this. Also hoping I don't have to rewire my
house... Dave



Two things are happening here.
#1. You are using a digital meter, a no no on AC house
diagnosis. #2. Your outlet is not grounded.

Okay, you are correct on both counts. The outlet is not
grounded, and I was using my Fluke, which I trust more
than the off-brand. Would an analog meter give me a
different reading from hot-gnd, or neutral-gnd? Hadn't
thought about it, but it probably would, wouldn't it? Have
to check that out. *Thank you* Dave


yes, if you want to have the "best" meters, you'll have
both a digital Fluke and a Simpson 260. both are
appropriate for different projects, although either one
will work in a pinch.
nate

And my old Simpson 260 was easier to read from a couple feet
away, too. The mirror made measurement errors due to parallax
almost never happen.

Evan wrote:
On Apr 4, 9:33 pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
Well, you must be an engineer?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org


That is the biggest problem with engineers, they think they
can "engineer" their way to solving some problem that a
good technician with installation/repair experience can
diagnose almost immediately...

~ Evan
Hi,
There are two types of engineers, one is hands-on type like techs
in the field. One is strictly desk bound knowing only theory. There are
many EEs out there who can't even replace a blown fuse on something some
where. I was not one of them.

On 4/5/2010 1:57 AM Evan spake thus:

On Apr 4, 9:33 pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Well, you must be an engineer?

That is the biggest problem with engineers, they think they
can "engineer" their way to solving some problem that a
good technician with installation/repair experience can
diagnose almost immediately...

I'm not an engineer. That was just an ASS-umption on the part of Stormy
in one of his malformed posts.


--
You were wrong, and I'm man enough to admit it.

- a Usenet "apology"

"N8N" wrote in message
...
On Apr 5, 12:10 pm, Gary H wrote:
On Sat, 03 Apr 2010 14:57:09 -0400, Nate Nagel
wrote:

[snip]

Three breakers for the A/C sounds hinky though. You should have one
double breaker for the A/C, period. If you can't figure that one out
yourself, you may wish to call an electrician to look at it - something
ain't right there.

nate

One double breaker (although I've seen 2 singles instead. They should
be next to each other) and another (single) for the blower?

yabbut, he said that if any of the breakers were on that it'd work,
that can't possibly be right.

nate

Hey nate,

Hate to say it, but that is the way it is. If any of those three breakers
is on, the outside compressor comes on when called upon. This is why I said
that whoever wired this house had to be stupid, crazy or on drugs (maybe all
three.) Please tell me why you say it can't possibly be, and help me
understand this mess.

Thanks,

Dave

On Apr 5, 2:25*pm, "Dave" wrote:
"N8N" wrote in message

...
On Apr 5, 12:10 pm, Gary H wrote:

On Sat, 03 Apr 2010 14:57:09 -0400, Nate Nagel
wrote:

[snip]

Three breakers for the A/C sounds hinky though. You should have one
double breaker for the A/C, period. If you can't figure that one out
yourself, you may wish to call an electrician to look at it - something
ain't right there.

nate

One double breaker (although I've seen 2 singles instead. They should
be next to each other) and another (single) for the blower?

yabbut, he said that if any of the breakers were on that it'd work,
that can't possibly be right.

nate

Hey nate,

Hate to say it, but that is the way it is. *If any of those three breakers
is on, the outside compressor comes on when called upon. *This is why I said
that whoever wired this house had to be stupid, crazy or on drugs (maybe all
three.) *Please tell me why you say it can't possibly be, and help me
understand this mess.

Thanks,

Dave

I didn't say it couldn't *be,* I just said it couldn't be *correct.*
And it's not. That's why I suggested you have an electrician check it
out. It sounds like maybe the equipment got inadvertantly connected
to two different circuits somehow, which is a code violation, as there
needs to be a single disconnect for each circuit. Otherwise if you
kill the breaker marked "A/C" and don't subsequently test it, you
could get a nasty surprise.

Since you apparently have a meter, I would do the following: turn off
each breaker one at a time and see if there's voltage on the wire
connected to the output of that breaker. If there is, you got a
problem that ought to be fixed.

nate

"N8N" wrote in message
...
On Apr 5, 2:25 pm, "Dave" wrote:
"N8N" wrote in message

...
On Apr 5, 12:10 pm, Gary H wrote:

On Sat, 03 Apr 2010 14:57:09 -0400, Nate Nagel
wrote:

[snip]

Three breakers for the A/C sounds hinky though. You should have one
double breaker for the A/C, period. If you can't figure that one out
yourself, you may wish to call an electrician to look at it - something
ain't right there.

nate

One double breaker (although I've seen 2 singles instead. They should
be next to each other) and another (single) for the blower?

yabbut, he said that if any of the breakers were on that it'd work,
that can't possibly be right.

nate

Hey nate,

Hate to say it, but that is the way it is. If any of those three breakers
is on, the outside compressor comes on when called upon. This is why I
said
that whoever wired this house had to be stupid, crazy or on drugs (maybe
all
three.) Please tell me why you say it can't possibly be, and help me
understand this mess.

Thanks,

Dave

I didn't say it couldn't *be,* I just said it couldn't be *correct.*
And it's not. That's why I suggested you have an electrician check it
out. It sounds like maybe the equipment got inadvertantly connected
to two different circuits somehow, which is a code violation, as there
needs to be a single disconnect for each circuit. Otherwise if you
kill the breaker marked "A/C" and don't subsequently test it, you
could get a nasty surprise.

Since you apparently have a meter, I would do the following: turn off
each breaker one at a time and see if there's voltage on the wire
connected to the output of that breaker. If there is, you got a
problem that ought to be fixed.

nate

===========


Aah. My misunderstanding. I'll check it out as you describe, with my
analog meter. That will at least point me in the right direction for
isolating the problem, I would think.

Many thanks.

Dave

David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 4/5/2010 11:08 AM Tony Hwang spake thus:

Evan wrote:

On Apr 4, 9:33 pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Well, you must be an engineer?

That is the biggest problem with engineers, they think they
can "engineer" their way to solving some problem that a
good technician with installation/repair experience can
diagnose almost immediately...

There are two types of engineers, one is hands-on type like techs
in the field. One is strictly desk bound knowing only theory. There
are many EEs out there who can't even replace a blown fuse on
something some where. I was not one of them.

It really doesn't matter in this caes: either type of engineer could
*easily* give the correct answer here (what size resistor to use to
eliminate phantom voltage readings and not burn up or explode). In fact,
it doesn't even take an engineer. Lotsa DIY types like myself know Ohm's
law and the formula for power, which are the only two pieces of
information necessary.


Hmmm,
I just ;et my two fingers on my right hand tell.
LOL!

On 4/5/2010 11:08 AM Tony Hwang spake thus:

Evan wrote:

On Apr 4, 9:33 pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Well, you must be an engineer?

That is the biggest problem with engineers, they think they
can "engineer" their way to solving some problem that a
good technician with installation/repair experience can
diagnose almost immediately...

There are two types of engineers, one is hands-on type like techs
in the field. One is strictly desk bound knowing only theory. There are
many EEs out there who can't even replace a blown fuse on something some
where. I was not one of them.

It really doesn't matter in this caes: either type of engineer could
*easily* give the correct answer here (what size resistor to use to
eliminate phantom voltage readings and not burn up or explode). In fact,
it doesn't even take an engineer. Lotsa DIY types like myself know Ohm's
law and the formula for power, which are the only two pieces of
information necessary.


--
You were wrong, and I'm man enough to admit it.

- a Usenet "apology"

On 4/5/2010 12:33 PM Tony Hwang spake thus:

David Nebenzahl wrote:

On 4/5/2010 11:08 AM Tony Hwang spake thus:

There are two types of engineers, one is hands-on type like techs
in the field. One is strictly desk bound knowing only theory. There
are many EEs out there who can't even replace a blown fuse on
something some where. I was not one of them.

It really doesn't matter in this caes: either type of engineer could
*easily* give the correct answer here (what size resistor to use to
eliminate phantom voltage readings and not burn up or explode). In fact,
it doesn't even take an engineer. Lotsa DIY types like myself know Ohm's
law and the formula for power, which are the only two pieces of
information necessary.

Hmmm,
I just ;et my two fingers on my right hand tell.
LOL!

?????????

[I'd laugh if I knew what the joke was]


--
You were wrong, and I'm man enough to admit it.

- a Usenet "apology"

On 04/05/2010 07:50 PM, David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 4/5/2010 12:33 PM Tony Hwang spake thus:

David Nebenzahl wrote:

On 4/5/2010 11:08 AM Tony Hwang spake thus:

There are two types of engineers, one is hands-on type like techs
in the field. One is strictly desk bound knowing only theory. There
are many EEs out there who can't even replace a blown fuse on
something some where. I was not one of them.

It really doesn't matter in this caes: either type of engineer could
*easily* give the correct answer here (what size resistor to use to
eliminate phantom voltage readings and not burn up or explode). In fact,
it doesn't even take an engineer. Lotsa DIY types like myself know Ohm's
law and the formula for power, which are the only two pieces of
information necessary.

Hmmm,
I just ;et my two fingers on my right hand tell.
LOL!

?????????

[I'd laugh if I knew what the joke was]



old school electrician, licks two fingers and places them across two
terminals. "yup, feels like about 120."

seriously, I've seen it.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On Apr 5, 7:11*pm, Nate Nagel wrote:
On 04/05/2010 07:50 PM, David Nebenzahl wrote:



On 4/5/2010 12:33 PM Tony Hwang spake thus:

David Nebenzahl wrote:

On 4/5/2010 11:08 AM Tony Hwang spake thus:

There are two types of engineers, one is hands-on type like techs
in the field. One is strictly desk bound knowing only theory. There
are many EEs out there who can't even replace a blown fuse on
something some where. I was not one of them.

It really doesn't matter in this caes: either type of engineer could
*easily* give the correct answer here (what size resistor to use to
eliminate phantom voltage readings and not burn up or explode). In fact,
it doesn't even take an engineer. Lotsa DIY types like myself know Ohm's
law and the formula for power, which are the only two pieces of
information necessary.

Hmmm,
I just ;et my two fingers on my right hand tell.
LOL!

?????????

[I'd laugh if I knew what the joke was]

old school electrician, licks two fingers and places them across two
terminals. *"yup, feels like about 120."

seriously, I've seen it.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.http://members.cox.net/njnagel

==
Lick fingers, place them across two terminals and then touch GROUND
with other hand and BINGO possible electrocution. Bad enough when it
happens accidentally but to deliberately do it is dumb. I was using an
old BD hand-held saw in a barn once and touched the saw frame on a
stanchion accidentally and it threw me and the saw to the ground in a
flash. Even 110 volts can kill.

==

Roy wrote:
On Apr 5, 7:11 pm, Nate Nagel wrote:
On 04/05/2010 07:50 PM, David Nebenzahl wrote:



On 4/5/2010 12:33 PM Tony Hwang spake thus:
David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 4/5/2010 11:08 AM Tony Hwang spake thus:
There are two types of engineers, one is hands-on type like techs
in the field. One is strictly desk bound knowing only theory. There
are many EEs out there who can't even replace a blown fuse on
something some where. I was not one of them.
It really doesn't matter in this caes: either type of engineer could
*easily* give the correct answer here (what size resistor to use to
eliminate phantom voltage readings and not burn up or explode). In fact,
it doesn't even take an engineer. Lotsa DIY types like myself know Ohm's
law and the formula for power, which are the only two pieces of
information necessary.
Hmmm,
I just ;et my two fingers on my right hand tell.
LOL!
?????????
[I'd laugh if I knew what the joke was]
old school electrician, licks two fingers and places them across two
terminals. "yup, feels like about 120."

seriously, I've seen it.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.http://members.cox.net/njnagel

==
Lick fingers, place them across two terminals and then touch GROUND
with other hand and BINGO possible electrocution. Bad enough when it
happens accidentally but to deliberately do it is dumb. I was using an
old BD hand-held saw in a barn once and touched the saw frame on a
stanchion accidentally and it threw me and the saw to the ground in a
flash. Even 110 volts can kill.

==
Chuckle. Most amusing 110 bite I've had (and there have been several),
didn't actually zap me directly, but I still damn near wet myself. I was
about 15 (Child labor laws? Huh?) and nailing baseboard in a dishwasher
cubbyhole. Swung the hammer back, and saw a flash of light and heard a
big ZAP. Dumb**** electrician had heated the kitchen strings w/o capping
the end of the romex that would feed the dishwasher. Had a few choice
words for him, even at that young age. Figured out which breaker killed
kitchen, pulled it, and then had to saw the cable off my hammer where it
had neatly arc-welded itself. Good thing it was a glass handle, I guess.

--
aem sends...

On 4/5/2010 7:05 PM aemeijers spake thus:

Roy wrote:

On Apr 5, 7:11 pm, Nate Nagel wrote:

On 04/05/2010 07:50 PM, David Nebenzahl wrote:

On 4/5/2010 12:33 PM Tony Hwang spake thus:

Hmmm,
I just ;et my two fingers on my right hand tell.
LOL!

?????????
[I'd laugh if I knew what the joke was]

old school electrician, licks two fingers and places them across two
terminals. "yup, feels like about 120."

seriously, I've seen it.

Lick fingers, place them across two terminals and then touch GROUND
with other hand and BINGO possible electrocution. Bad enough when it
happens accidentally but to deliberately do it is dumb. I was using an
old BD hand-held saw in a barn once and touched the saw frame on a
stanchion accidentally and it threw me and the saw to the ground in a
flash. Even 110 volts can kill.

Chuckle. Most amusing 110 bite I've had (and there have been several),
didn't actually zap me directly, but I still damn near wet myself. I was
about 15 (Child labor laws? Huh?) and nailing baseboard in a dishwasher
cubbyhole. Swung the hammer back, and saw a flash of light and heard a
big ZAP. Dumb**** electrician had heated the kitchen strings w/o capping
the end of the romex that would feed the dishwasher. Had a few choice
words for him, even at that young age. Figured out which breaker killed
kitchen, pulled it, and then had to saw the cable off my hammer where it
had neatly arc-welded itself. Good thing it was a glass handle, I guess.

Well, since we're talking near-electrocutions here, the last shock I got
(couple years ago) was 277 volts. (Had never heard of that voltage
before working on a friend's shop with commercial lighting.) I contacted
hot & neutral with one hand while standing on a stepladder. Zazzed me up
good, but didn't throw me off the ladder. Worst shock I've ever gotten.


--
You were wrong, and I'm man enough to admit it.

- a Usenet "apology"

If I remember right this is the thread that has "phantom voltage" and at
least one person suggested a resistor between the meter leads.

I just got a Fluke toy catalog, and they have a module that plugs into
the meter with the leads plugging into it that does just that:
Fluke SV225 stray voltage adapter
www.fluke.com/stray-voltage
It maintains the Category rating of the meter - which should be of
interest to anyone who is employed (under OSHA) that makes measurements
on power circuits.

--
bud--