On Sun, 14 Mar 2010 20:41:50 -0500, Douglas Johnson
wrote:

" wrote:

On Sun, 14 Mar 2010 19:27:08 -0500, Douglas Johnson
wrote:

" wrote:

On Sun, 14 Mar 2010 18:13:12 -0500, Douglas Johnson
wrote:

Amazing. Left foot braking was what I was taught in driver's ed in Michigan in
the mid-60's.

I don't believe you.

Do you have specific evidence to the contrary? I could be wrong.

Only that NO ONE was teaching such crap in the '60s (though nothing would
surprise me today). Manual transmissions were still the norm and a left foot
on the brake was definitely a no-no.

Really? You tried them all? Berkley High in 1966? The cars we learned on had
automatics. I actually didn't learn to drive a manual until college.

Seriously, I remember being taught left foot braking in driver's ed and I've
done it all my life. I don't know where I would have learned it otherwise. But
it will take more than a statement like that to invalidate my memory. We may
have to decide we can't convince each other.
-- Doug


There is nothing wrong with left foot braking, I've done it all my
life. Apparently some people don't have the skills required to do it
and those people should stick to using just the one foot.

On Sun, 14 Mar 2010 19:50:51 -0700, "Nonny" wrote:

FWIW, I began driving a tractor (clutch) at 10 and cars at 12.
That was in the 50's. I learned to use my left foot for the
clutch and right for brake and throttle. In the 80's, I taught my
kids the same thing-first on a John Deere and then a car. IMHO,
there is no reason, and is a cause for possible harm, to teach a
person to do otherwise. Sure, the Driver Ed-mobiles and many cars
now have autos, but what good does it to to teach a reaction to
kids that could get them killed when they move up to a manual
transmission eventually?


You do know that people who ride motorcycles use their feet (and
hands) differently then when they drive cars? Similarly, people who
fly aircraft use their feet (and arms) differently then people who
drive cars? Yet they all manage to do so safely even when switching
between the various modes of transportation. Or do you think aircraft
pilots are creating a hazard on the roadways as they drive to and from
the airport?

The notion that people can't manage to use two feet in different ways
when driving is silly. Like anything, it's a skill that must be
learned. If you haven't, or are unable, to learn that skill then by
all means continue to let your left foot just flop around on the floor
and use only your right foot while driving an automatic.. Those of use
with the skill to use both feet will continue to do so and be safer
and more refined drivers as a result. Perhaps you ought to give it a
try, and I don't mean for 2 minutes, I mean for a week or two until
it's second nature, you might be surprised at how much smoother and
more effectively you can control your car in traffic. I've driven
(cars [with and without a clutch] and motorcycles) and flown aircraft
and never had a problem with my feet getting confused. It's something
you LEARN, just like the rest of the skills you acquire in life.

On Mar 16, 8:44*am, Ashton Crusher wrote:
On Sun, 14 Mar 2010 19:50:51 -0700, "Nonny" wrote:
FWIW, I began driving a tractor (clutch) at 10 and cars at 12.
That was in the 50's. *I learned to use my left foot for the
clutch and right for brake and throttle. *In the 80's, I taught my
kids the same thing-first on a John Deere and then a car. *IMHO,
there is no reason, and is a cause for possible harm, to teach a
person to do otherwise. *Sure, the Driver Ed-mobiles and many cars
now have autos, but what good does it to to teach a reaction to
kids that could get them killed when they move up to a manual
transmission eventually?

You do know that people who ride motorcycles use their feet (and
hands) differently then when they drive cars? *Similarly, people who
fly aircraft use their feet (and arms) differently then people who
drive cars? *Yet they all manage to do so safely even when switching
between the various modes of transportation. *Or do you think aircraft
pilots are creating a hazard on the roadways as they drive to and from
the airport? *

The notion that people can't manage to use two feet in different ways
when driving is silly. *Like anything, it's a skill that must be
learned. *If you haven't, or are unable, to learn that skill then by
all means continue to let your left foot just flop around on the floor
and use only your right foot while driving an automatic.. Those of use
with the skill to use both feet will continue to do so and be safer
and more refined drivers as a result. *Perhaps you ought to give it a
try, and I don't mean for 2 minutes, I mean for a week or two until
it's second nature, you might be surprised at how much smoother and
more effectively you can control your car in traffic. *I've driven
(cars [with and without a clutch] and motorcycles) and flown aircraft
and never had a problem with my feet getting confused. *It's something
you LEARN, just like the rest of the skills you acquire in life.

==
"Safer and refined"...what b.s. you are peddling...all in your own
mind perhaps.
==

Roy wrote:

The notion that people can't manage to use two feet in different ways
when driving is silly. Like anything, it's a skill that must be
learned. If you haven't, or are unable, to learn that skill then by
all means continue to let your left foot just flop around on the
floor and use only your right foot while driving an automatic..
Those of use with the skill to use both feet will continue to do so
and be safer and more refined drivers as a result. Perhaps you ought
to give it a try, and I don't mean for 2 minutes, I mean for a week
or two until it's second nature, you might be surprised at how much
smoother and more effectively you can control your car in traffic.
I've driven (cars [with and without a clutch] and motorcycles) and
flown aircraft and never had a problem with my feet getting
confused. It's something you LEARN, just like the rest of the skills
you acquire in life.

Unfortunately, many left foot braking drivers rest their left foot on the brake
pedal, and nobody behind them can tell that they press the brake because their
brake light is on all the time.

On Mon, 15 Mar 2010 10:49:16 -0500, Jim Yanik
wrote:

[snip]

IMO,operating differently depending on what car you're using means you
aren't developing the reflex or habit that people revert to under
emergencies.Thus,you could,under pressure,use the wrong foot at a critical
time.

Always use the correct foot. It doesn't matter what pedal you put
pressure on, as long as you use the correct foot :-)

On Mar 15, 11:23*am, Douglas Johnson wrote:
Jim Yanik wrote:
using left foot for braking makes it possible for one to apply both brakes
and throttle at the same time.
In most cases,outside of the track,this is not good.

Agreed. *So don't do it.

Besides,just because a state or states "encourages" something does not make
it right or proper. States are not any authority on driving techniques.
That "encouragement" could merely derive from some bureaucrat of the same
bent as you guys.

By the same authority, it doesn't make it wrong. *I was just using it to confirm
my memory that my Michigan driver's ed taught left foot braking.

IMO,operating differently depending on what car you're using means you
aren't developing the reflex or habit that people revert to under
emergencies.Thus,you could,under pressure,use the wrong foot at a critical
time.

This could be a problem, but hasn't for me. *I own both automatics and manuals.
I move between them regularly. *I brake with the appropriate foot without
thinking about it, even in an emergency. *I've *never* screwed it up.

I'm kind of surprised at the amount of controversy this has stirred up. *It's
clear I'm in the minority here and on the net. *That's OK. *In any case, I'm
done with this topic.

-- Doug

It's not the first time and wont' be the last. It usually shows up in
the driving forums though.

I defy anyone to drive any time at all with their left foot in the air
above the pedal. Whether they are aware of it or not, they _will_
have their foot touching the pedal.

Harry K

On Tue, 16 Mar 2010 11:27:54 -0700, "Bob F"
wrote:

Roy wrote:

The notion that people can't manage to use two feet in different ways
when driving is silly. Like anything, it's a skill that must be
learned. If you haven't, or are unable, to learn that skill then by
all means continue to let your left foot just flop around on the
floor and use only your right foot while driving an automatic..
Those of use with the skill to use both feet will continue to do so
and be safer and more refined drivers as a result. Perhaps you ought
to give it a try, and I don't mean for 2 minutes, I mean for a week
or two until it's second nature, you might be surprised at how much
smoother and more effectively you can control your car in traffic.
I've driven (cars [with and without a clutch] and motorcycles) and
flown aircraft and never had a problem with my feet getting
confused. It's something you LEARN, just like the rest of the skills
you acquire in life.

Unfortunately, many left foot braking drivers rest their left foot on the brake
pedal, and nobody behind them can tell that they press the brake because their
brake light is on all the time.



I don't see 1 out of 10000 drivers do that and I have no idea if it's
because they left foot brake or what the cause is.

On Tue, 16 Mar 2010 09:39:02 -0700 (PDT), Roy
wrote:

On Mar 16, 8:44*am, Ashton Crusher wrote:
On Sun, 14 Mar 2010 19:50:51 -0700, "Nonny" wrote:
FWIW, I began driving a tractor (clutch) at 10 and cars at 12.
That was in the 50's. *I learned to use my left foot for the
clutch and right for brake and throttle. *In the 80's, I taught my
kids the same thing-first on a John Deere and then a car. *IMHO,
there is no reason, and is a cause for possible harm, to teach a
person to do otherwise. *Sure, the Driver Ed-mobiles and many cars
now have autos, but what good does it to to teach a reaction to
kids that could get them killed when they move up to a manual
transmission eventually?

You do know that people who ride motorcycles use their feet (and
hands) differently then when they drive cars? *Similarly, people who
fly aircraft use their feet (and arms) differently then people who
drive cars? *Yet they all manage to do so safely even when switching
between the various modes of transportation. *Or do you think aircraft
pilots are creating a hazard on the roadways as they drive to and from
the airport? *

The notion that people can't manage to use two feet in different ways
when driving is silly. *Like anything, it's a skill that must be
learned. *If you haven't, or are unable, to learn that skill then by
all means continue to let your left foot just flop around on the floor
and use only your right foot while driving an automatic.. Those of use
with the skill to use both feet will continue to do so and be safer
and more refined drivers as a result. *Perhaps you ought to give it a
try, and I don't mean for 2 minutes, I mean for a week or two until
it's second nature, you might be surprised at how much smoother and
more effectively you can control your car in traffic. *I've driven
(cars [with and without a clutch] and motorcycles) and flown aircraft
and never had a problem with my feet getting confused. *It's something
you LEARN, just like the rest of the skills you acquire in life.

==
"Safer and refined"...what b.s. you are peddling...all in your own
mind perhaps.
==


Perhaps it's just in your mind that other people can't do it because
you can't.

On Tue, 16 Mar 2010 13:58:35 -0700 (PDT), Harry K
wrote:

On Mar 15, 11:23*am, Douglas Johnson wrote:
Jim Yanik wrote:
using left foot for braking makes it possible for one to apply both brakes
and throttle at the same time.
In most cases,outside of the track,this is not good.

Agreed. *So don't do it.

Besides,just because a state or states "encourages" something does not make
it right or proper. States are not any authority on driving techniques.
That "encouragement" could merely derive from some bureaucrat of the same
bent as you guys.

By the same authority, it doesn't make it wrong. *I was just using it to confirm
my memory that my Michigan driver's ed taught left foot braking.

IMO,operating differently depending on what car you're using means you
aren't developing the reflex or habit that people revert to under
emergencies.Thus,you could,under pressure,use the wrong foot at a critical
time.

This could be a problem, but hasn't for me. *I own both automatics and manuals.
I move between them regularly. *I brake with the appropriate foot without
thinking about it, even in an emergency. *I've *never* screwed it up.

I'm kind of surprised at the amount of controversy this has stirred up. *It's
clear I'm in the minority here and on the net. *That's OK. *In any case, I'm
done with this topic.

-- Doug

It's not the first time and wont' be the last. It usually shows up in
the driving forums though.

I defy anyone to drive any time at all with their left foot in the air
above the pedal. Whether they are aware of it or not, they _will_
have their foot touching the pedal.

Harry K


Harry, I've done it for years and my foot doesn't press the pedal. Is
your foot really so insensitive that you can't tell the difference
between when you are touching something and pressing something? It's
no different then when someone has their foot on the gas pedal, if
they are moving they are pressing the gas and holding it in a fixed
position. If they are stopped they will merely be touching it and it
won't move yet you can tell you are touching it. it's the same with
the brakes. As I said in the other post, these things are skills that
you learn by doing. If people don't want to learn them it's their
choice, if they learn them poorly, that's their problem, but there is
no doubt that left foot braking can provide shorter reaction times and
smoother driving, all other things being equal, it's just the physics
of the thing.

On Mar 16, 10:25*pm, Ashton Crusher wrote:
On Tue, 16 Mar 2010 09:39:02 -0700 (PDT), Roy
wrote:





On Mar 16, 8:44*am, Ashton Crusher wrote:
On Sun, 14 Mar 2010 19:50:51 -0700, "Nonny" wrote:
FWIW, I began driving a tractor (clutch) at 10 and cars at 12.
That was in the 50's. *I learned to use my left foot for the
clutch and right for brake and throttle. *In the 80's, I taught my
kids the same thing-first on a John Deere and then a car. *IMHO,
there is no reason, and is a cause for possible harm, to teach a
person to do otherwise. *Sure, the Driver Ed-mobiles and many cars
now have autos, but what good does it to to teach a reaction to
kids that could get them killed when they move up to a manual
transmission eventually?

You do know that people who ride motorcycles use their feet (and
hands) differently then when they drive cars? *Similarly, people who
fly aircraft use their feet (and arms) differently then people who
drive cars? *Yet they all manage to do so safely even when switching
between the various modes of transportation. *Or do you think aircraft
pilots are creating a hazard on the roadways as they drive to and from
the airport? *

The notion that people can't manage to use two feet in different ways
when driving is silly. *Like anything, it's a skill that must be
learned. *If you haven't, or are unable, to learn that skill then by
all means continue to let your left foot just flop around on the floor
and use only your right foot while driving an automatic.. Those of use
with the skill to use both feet will continue to do so and be safer
and more refined drivers as a result. *Perhaps you ought to give it a
try, and I don't mean for 2 minutes, I mean for a week or two until
it's second nature, you might be surprised at how much smoother and
more effectively you can control your car in traffic. *I've driven
(cars [with and without a clutch] and motorcycles) and flown aircraft
and never had a problem with my feet getting confused. *It's something
you LEARN, just like the rest of the skills you acquire in life.

==
"Safer and refined"...what b.s. you are peddling...all in your own
mind perhaps.
==

Perhaps it's just in your mind that other people can't do it because
you can't.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

??? So you think you can hold your foot in the air for long periods?

Harry K

On Mar 17, 5:33*am, wrote:
On Tue, 16 Mar 2010 13:58:35 -0700 (PDT), Harry K





wrote:
On Mar 15, 11:23 am, Douglas Johnson wrote:
Jim Yanik wrote:
using left foot for braking makes it possible for one to apply both brakes
and throttle at the same time.
In most cases,outside of the track,this is not good.

Agreed. So don't do it.

Besides,just because a state or states "encourages" something does not make
it right or proper. States are not any authority on driving techniques.
That "encouragement" could merely derive from some bureaucrat of the same
bent as you guys.

By the same authority, it doesn't make it wrong. I was just using it to confirm
my memory that my Michigan driver's ed taught left foot braking.

IMO,operating differently depending on what car you're using means you
aren't developing the reflex or habit that people revert to under
emergencies.Thus,you could,under pressure,use the wrong foot at a critical
time.

This could be a problem, but hasn't for me. I own both automatics and manuals.
I move between them regularly. I brake with the appropriate foot without
thinking about it, even in an emergency. I've *never* screwed it up.

I'm kind of surprised at the amount of controversy this has stirred up.. It's
clear I'm in the minority here and on the net. That's OK. In any case, I'm
done with this topic.

-- Doug

It's not the first time and wont' be the last. It usually shows up in
the driving forums though.

I defy anyone to drive any time at all with their left foot in the air
above the pedal. *Whether they are aware of it or not, they _will_
have their foot touching the pedal.

Harry K

Really? I guess they will need two left feet so they can ride the
clutch as well?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

??? Who rides with their foot above the clutch unless they are about
to use it?

Harry K

On Mar 17, 1:33*am, Ashton Crusher wrote:
On Tue, 16 Mar 2010 13:58:35 -0700 (PDT), Harry K





wrote:
On Mar 15, 11:23*am, Douglas Johnson wrote:
Jim Yanik wrote:
using left foot for braking makes it possible for one to apply both brakes
and throttle at the same time.
In most cases,outside of the track,this is not good.

Agreed. *So don't do it.

Besides,just because a state or states "encourages" something does not make
it right or proper. States are not any authority on driving techniques.
That "encouragement" could merely derive from some bureaucrat of the same
bent as you guys.

By the same authority, it doesn't make it wrong. *I was just using it to confirm
my memory that my Michigan driver's ed taught left foot braking.

IMO,operating differently depending on what car you're using means you
aren't developing the reflex or habit that people revert to under
emergencies.Thus,you could,under pressure,use the wrong foot at a critical
time.

This could be a problem, but hasn't for me. *I own both automatics and manuals.
I move between them regularly. *I brake with the appropriate foot without
thinking about it, even in an emergency. *I've *never* screwed it up..

I'm kind of surprised at the amount of controversy this has stirred up.. *It's
clear I'm in the minority here and on the net. *That's OK. *In any case, I'm
done with this topic.

-- Doug

It's not the first time and wont' be the last. It usually shows up in
the driving forums though.

I defy anyone to drive any time at all with their left foot in the air
above the pedal. *Whether they are aware of it or not, they _will_
have their foot touching the pedal.

Harry K

Harry, *I've done it for years and my foot doesn't press the pedal. Is
your foot really so insensitive that you can't tell the difference
between when you are touching something and pressing something? *It's
no different then when someone has their foot on the gas pedal, if
they are moving they are pressing the gas and holding it in a fixed
position. *If they are stopped they will merely be touching it and it
won't move yet you can tell you are touching it. *it's the same with
the brakes. *As I said in the other post, these things are skills that
you learn by doing. *If people don't want to learn them it's their
choice, if they learn them poorly, that's their problem, but there is
no doubt that left foot braking can provide shorter reaction times and
smoother driving, all other things being equal, it's just the physics
of the thing.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

If you have your left foot on the brake you need to hold the foot up.
Resting the front of your foot on the brake pedal is riding the brakes
on many cars. After hours on the road you will relax those muscles.

On Mar 17, 9:03*am, jamesgangnc wrote:
On Mar 17, 1:33*am, Ashton Crusher wrote:



On Tue, 16 Mar 2010 13:58:35 -0700 (PDT), Harry K

wrote:
On Mar 15, 11:23*am, Douglas Johnson wrote:
Jim Yanik wrote:
using left foot for braking makes it possible for one to apply both brakes
and throttle at the same time.
In most cases,outside of the track,this is not good.

Agreed. *So don't do it.

Besides,just because a state or states "encourages" something does not make
it right or proper. States are not any authority on driving techniques.
That "encouragement" could merely derive from some bureaucrat of the same
bent as you guys.

By the same authority, it doesn't make it wrong. *I was just using it to confirm
my memory that my Michigan driver's ed taught left foot braking.

IMO,operating differently depending on what car you're using means you
aren't developing the reflex or habit that people revert to under
emergencies.Thus,you could,under pressure,use the wrong foot at a critical
time.

This could be a problem, but hasn't for me. *I own both automatics and manuals.
I move between them regularly. *I brake with the appropriate foot without
thinking about it, even in an emergency. *I've *never* screwed it up.

I'm kind of surprised at the amount of controversy this has stirred up. *It's
clear I'm in the minority here and on the net. *That's OK. *In any case, I'm
done with this topic.

-- Doug

It's not the first time and wont' be the last. It usually shows up in
the driving forums though.

I defy anyone to drive any time at all with their left foot in the air
above the pedal. *Whether they are aware of it or not, they _will_
have their foot touching the pedal.

Harry K

Harry, *I've done it for years and my foot doesn't press the pedal. Is
your foot really so insensitive that you can't tell the difference
between when you are touching something and pressing something? *It's
no different then when someone has their foot on the gas pedal, if
they are moving they are pressing the gas and holding it in a fixed
position. *If they are stopped they will merely be touching it and it
won't move yet you can tell you are touching it. *it's the same with
the brakes. *As I said in the other post, these things are skills that
you learn by doing. *If people don't want to learn them it's their
choice, if they learn them poorly, that's their problem, but there is
no doubt that left foot braking can provide shorter reaction times and
smoother driving, all other things being equal, it's just the physics
of the thing.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

If you have your left foot on the brake you need to hold the foot up.
Resting the front of your foot on the brake pedal is riding the brakes
on many cars. *After hours on the road you will relax those muscles.

==
After 60 years of driving, I have never heard of such a ridiculous
claim regarding left foot braking. Ashton must be of a very small
minority who practices "left-foot" braking. I'm sure most of the long-
haul truckers would laugh at his conclusions.
==

On Tue, 16 Mar 2010 22:25:12 -0700, Ashton Crusher
wrote:

On Tue, 16 Mar 2010 09:39:02 -0700 (PDT), Roy
wrote:

On Mar 16, 8:44Â*am, Ashton Crusher wrote:
On Sun, 14 Mar 2010 19:50:51 -0700, "Nonny" wrote:
FWIW, I began driving a tractor (clutch) at 10 and cars at 12.
That was in the 50's. Â*I learned to use my left foot for the
clutch and right for brake and throttle. Â*In the 80's, I taught my
kids the same thing-first on a John Deere and then a car. Â*IMHO,
there is no reason, and is a cause for possible harm, to teach a
person to do otherwise. Â*Sure, the Driver Ed-mobiles and many cars
now have autos, but what good does it to to teach a reaction to
kids that could get them killed when they move up to a manual
transmission eventually?

You do know that people who ride motorcycles use their feet (and
hands) differently then when they drive cars? Â*Similarly, people who
fly aircraft use their feet (and arms) differently then people who
drive cars? Â*Yet they all manage to do so safely even when switching
between the various modes of transportation. Â*Or do you think aircraft
pilots are creating a hazard on the roadways as they drive to and from
the airport? Â*

The notion that people can't manage to use two feet in different ways
when driving is silly. Â*Like anything, it's a skill that must be
learned. Â*If you haven't, or are unable, to learn that skill then by
all means continue to let your left foot just flop around on the floor
and use only your right foot while driving an automatic.. Those of use
with the skill to use both feet will continue to do so and be safer
and more refined drivers as a result. Â*Perhaps you ought to give it a
try, and I don't mean for 2 minutes, I mean for a week or two until
it's second nature, you might be surprised at how much smoother and
more effectively you can control your car in traffic. Â*I've driven
(cars [with and without a clutch] and motorcycles) and flown aircraft
and never had a problem with my feet getting confused. Â*It's something
you LEARN, just like the rest of the skills you acquire in life.

==
"Safer and refined"...what b.s. you are peddling...all in your own
mind perhaps.
==


Perhaps it's just in your mind that other people can't do it because
you can't.
As a mechanic, when doing brake jobs I used to look at the wear on
the break pedal If the pedal was worn on the left side instead of the
right and the customer complained of poor brake life I told them to
stop riding the brake, and to brake with the right foot.

If they wore the pads out early because of left foot braking and
riding the brake they didn't stand a chance.

On Wed, 17 Mar 2010 06:38:38 -0700 (PDT), Harry K
wrote:

On Mar 16, 10:25Â*pm, Ashton Crusher wrote:
On Tue, 16 Mar 2010 09:39:02 -0700 (PDT), Roy
wrote:





On Mar 16, 8:44Â*am, Ashton Crusher wrote:
On Sun, 14 Mar 2010 19:50:51 -0700, "Nonny" wrote:
FWIW, I began driving a tractor (clutch) at 10 and cars at 12.
That was in the 50's. Â*I learned to use my left foot for the
clutch and right for brake and throttle. Â*In the 80's, I taught my
kids the same thing-first on a John Deere and then a car. Â*IMHO,
there is no reason, and is a cause for possible harm, to teach a
person to do otherwise. Â*Sure, the Driver Ed-mobiles and many cars
now have autos, but what good does it to to teach a reaction to
kids that could get them killed when they move up to a manual
transmission eventually?

You do know that people who ride motorcycles use their feet (and
hands) differently then when they drive cars? Â*Similarly, people who
fly aircraft use their feet (and arms) differently then people who
drive cars? Â*Yet they all manage to do so safely even when switching
between the various modes of transportation. Â*Or do you think aircraft
pilots are creating a hazard on the roadways as they drive to and from
the airport? Â*

The notion that people can't manage to use two feet in different ways
when driving is silly. Â*Like anything, it's a skill that must be
learned. Â*If you haven't, or are unable, to learn that skill then by
all means continue to let your left foot just flop around on the floor
and use only your right foot while driving an automatic.. Those of use
with the skill to use both feet will continue to do so and be safer
and more refined drivers as a result. Â*Perhaps you ought to give it a
try, and I don't mean for 2 minutes, I mean for a week or two until
it's second nature, you might be surprised at how much smoother and
more effectively you can control your car in traffic. Â*I've driven
(cars [with and without a clutch] and motorcycles) and flown aircraft
and never had a problem with my feet getting confused. Â*It's something
you LEARN, just like the rest of the skills you acquire in life.

==
"Safer and refined"...what b.s. you are peddling...all in your own
mind perhaps.
==

Perhaps it's just in your mind that other people can't do it because
you can't.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

??? So you think you can hold your foot in the air for long periods?

Harry K
Change the topic to "left foot whiners"

"jamesgangnc" wrote
I defy anyone to drive any time at all with their left foot in the air
above the pedal. Whether they are aware of it or not, they _will_
have their foot touching the pedal.

Harry K

If you have your left foot on the brake you need to hold the foot up.
Resting the front of your foot on the brake pedal is riding the brakes
on many cars. After hours on the road you will relax those muscles.

As a practical matter, you don't hold your foot in the air, nor do you rest
in on the pedal. You keep your foot on the floor just like any other driver.
If you are in a situation where you "may" need the brakes at any time, you
can then elect to move that foot to a ready position, thus the faster
reaction time.

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

"jamesgangnc" wrote
I defy anyone to drive any time at all with their left foot in the air
above the pedal. Whether they are aware of it or not, they _will_
have their foot touching the pedal.

Harry K

If you have your left foot on the brake you need to hold the foot up.
Resting the front of your foot on the brake pedal is riding the brakes
on many cars. After hours on the road you will relax those muscles.

As a practical matter, you don't hold your foot in the air, nor do you
rest in on the pedal. You keep your foot on the floor just like any other
driver. If you are in a situation where you "may" need the brakes at any
time, you can then elect to move that foot to a ready position, thus the
faster reaction time.

"Faster" than using the right foot, which is already there? Left foot
brakers should not be allowed to drive. Period.

"h" wrote in
:


"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

"jamesgangnc" wrote
I defy anyone to drive any time at all with their left foot in the
air above the pedal. Whether they are aware of it or not, they
_will_ have their foot touching the pedal.

Harry K

If you have your left foot on the brake you need to hold the foot
up. Resting the front of your foot on the brake pedal is riding the
brakes on many cars. After hours on the road you will relax those
muscles.

As a practical matter, you don't hold your foot in the air, nor do
you rest in on the pedal. You keep your foot on the floor just like
any other driver. If you are in a situation where you "may" need the
brakes at any time, you can then elect to move that foot to a ready
position, thus the faster reaction time.

Or allowing for confusion and the wrong foot applying pressure to the wrong
pedal.
It also allows pressure to be applied to BOTH pedals at the same time.
(riding the brake;not good for both car and traffic behind it.)

and the reflex HABIT of always using the same foot for the braking task
never gets developed,and in an emergency,confusion can result.

"Faster" than using the right foot, which is already there? Left foot
brakers should not be allowed to drive. Period.

No,just on racetracks.
Maybe the "dead pedal" on auto tranny cars should be a deadman's switch;
remove the foot from it and the engine shuts off.


--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com

On Wed, 17 Mar 2010 10:48:44 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 17 Mar 2010 06:40:33 -0700 (PDT), Harry K
wrote:

On Mar 17, 5:33*am, wrote:
On Tue, 16 Mar 2010 13:58:35 -0700 (PDT), Harry K





wrote:
On Mar 15, 11:23 am, Douglas Johnson wrote:
Jim Yanik wrote:
using left foot for braking makes it possible for one to apply both brakes
and throttle at the same time.
In most cases,outside of the track,this is not good.

Agreed. So don't do it.

Besides,just because a state or states "encourages" something does not make
it right or proper. States are not any authority on driving techniques.
That "encouragement" could merely derive from some bureaucrat of the same
bent as you guys.

By the same authority, it doesn't make it wrong. I was just using it to confirm
my memory that my Michigan driver's ed taught left foot braking.

IMO,operating differently depending on what car you're using means you
aren't developing the reflex or habit that people revert to under
emergencies.Thus,you could,under pressure,use the wrong foot at a critical
time.

This could be a problem, but hasn't for me. I own both automatics and manuals.
I move between them regularly. I brake with the appropriate foot without
thinking about it, even in an emergency. I've *never* screwed it up.

I'm kind of surprised at the amount of controversy this has stirred up. It's
clear I'm in the minority here and on the net. That's OK. In any case, I'm
done with this topic.

-- Doug

It's not the first time and wont' be the last. It usually shows up in
the driving forums though.

I defy anyone to drive any time at all with their left foot in the air
above the pedal. *Whether they are aware of it or not, they _will_
have their foot touching the pedal.

Harry K

Really? I guess they will need two left feet so they can ride the
clutch as well?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

??? Who rides with their foot above the clutch unless they are about
to use it?

Harry K


Same answer holds true for the brake pedal. No one needs to have a
foot hovering over the brake pedal to brake with the left foot.

Then it has *no* advantage over right-foot braking and a lot of disadvantages.

On Wed, 17 Mar 2010 20:42:33 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 17 Mar 2010 19:08:12 -0500, "
wrote:

On Wed, 17 Mar 2010 10:48:44 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 17 Mar 2010 06:40:33 -0700 (PDT), Harry K
wrote:

On Mar 17, 5:33*am, wrote:
On Tue, 16 Mar 2010 13:58:35 -0700 (PDT), Harry K





wrote:
On Mar 15, 11:23 am, Douglas Johnson wrote:
Jim Yanik wrote:
using left foot for braking makes it possible for one to apply both brakes
and throttle at the same time.
In most cases,outside of the track,this is not good.

Agreed. So don't do it.

Besides,just because a state or states "encourages" something does not make
it right or proper. States are not any authority on driving techniques.
That "encouragement" could merely derive from some bureaucrat of the same
bent as you guys.

By the same authority, it doesn't make it wrong. I was just using it to confirm
my memory that my Michigan driver's ed taught left foot braking.

IMO,operating differently depending on what car you're using means you
aren't developing the reflex or habit that people revert to under
emergencies.Thus,you could,under pressure,use the wrong foot at a critical
time.

This could be a problem, but hasn't for me. I own both automatics and manuals.
I move between them regularly. I brake with the appropriate foot without
thinking about it, even in an emergency. I've *never* screwed it up.

I'm kind of surprised at the amount of controversy this has stirred up. It's
clear I'm in the minority here and on the net. That's OK. In any case, I'm
done with this topic.

-- Doug

It's not the first time and wont' be the last. It usually shows up in
the driving forums though.

I defy anyone to drive any time at all with their left foot in the air
above the pedal. *Whether they are aware of it or not, they _will_
have their foot touching the pedal.

Harry K

Really? I guess they will need two left feet so they can ride the
clutch as well?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

??? Who rides with their foot above the clutch unless they are about
to use it?

Harry K


Same answer holds true for the brake pedal. No one needs to have a
foot hovering over the brake pedal to brake with the left foot.

Then it has *no* advantage over right-foot braking and a lot of disadvantages.

I assume you must have a cite for a peer reviewed scientific study
that backs up those assertions...

It's obvious, dummy. If you have to move your foot, either works equally. The
big disadvantage is that each foot can (and will) be on both petals during
emergency stopping (or worse), a time were acceleration isn't wanted.
Right-foot braking removes this possibility.

You couldn't possibly just be pulling this stuff out of your butt,
could you?

No, but that's where your head has always been.

On Wed, 17 Mar 2010 18:50:47 -0400, "Ed Pawlowski"
wrote:


"jamesgangnc" wrote
I defy anyone to drive any time at all with their left foot in the air
above the pedal. Whether they are aware of it or not, they _will_
have their foot touching the pedal.

Harry K

If you have your left foot on the brake you need to hold the foot up.
Resting the front of your foot on the brake pedal is riding the brakes
on many cars. After hours on the road you will relax those muscles.

As a practical matter, you don't hold your foot in the air, nor do you rest
in on the pedal. You keep your foot on the floor just like any other driver.
If you are in a situation where you "may" need the brakes at any time, you
can then elect to move that foot to a ready position, thus the faster
reaction time.
If you are a right-foot braker and you are in a situation where you
might need to brake at any time you take your RIGHT foot off the
accellerator, and while it is still in motion, without having to
command the LEFT foot to do anything, you hit the brakes.

Much faster reaction time, and NO CHANCE that both feet will be down
at the same time on both pedals.

Left foot braking IS dangerous - it doesn't matter how many years YOU
have gotten away with it..

On Mar 17, 7:27*pm, wrote:
On Wed, 17 Mar 2010 18:50:47 -0400, "Ed Pawlowski"



wrote:

"jamesgangnc" wrote
I defy anyone to drive any time at all with their left foot in the air
above the pedal. *Whether they are aware of it or not, they _will_
have their foot touching the pedal.

Harry K

If you have your left foot on the brake you need to hold the foot up.
Resting the front of your foot on the brake pedal is riding the brakes
on many cars. *After hours on the road you will relax those muscles.

As a practical matter, you don't hold your foot in the air, nor do you rest
in on the pedal. You keep your foot on the floor just like any other driver.
If you are in a situation where you "may" need the brakes at any time, you
can then elect to move that foot to a ready position, thus the faster
reaction time.

* If you are a right-foot braker and you are in a situation where you
might need to brake at any time you take your RIGHT foot off the
accellerator, and while it is still in motion, without having to
command the LEFT foot to do anything, you hit the brakes.

Much faster reaction time, and NO CHANCE that both feet will be down
at the same time on both pedals.

Left foot braking IS dangerous - it doesn't matter how many years YOU
have gotten away with it..

==
Exactly.
==

"h" wrote in message
...

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

"jamesgangnc" wrote
I defy anyone to drive any time at all with their left foot in the air
above the pedal. Whether they are aware of it or not, they _will_
have their foot touching the pedal.

Harry K

If you have your left foot on the brake you need to hold the foot up.
Resting the front of your foot on the brake pedal is riding the brakes
on many cars. After hours on the road you will relax those muscles.

As a practical matter, you don't hold your foot in the air, nor do you
rest in on the pedal. You keep your foot on the floor just like any other
driver. If you are in a situation where you "may" need the brakes at any
time, you can then elect to move that foot to a ready position, thus the
faster reaction time.

"Faster" than using the right foot, which is already there? Left foot
brakers should not be allowed to drive. Period.


How can the right foot "already there" when it is on the gas pedal? The
left can be hovering over the brake. I'm not saying it is a better method,
just that under certain limited circumstances it can be faster. That can
happen in say, congested fast moving traffic with on and off ramps where you
may need a bit of extra caution. Certainly not cruising the highway for even
a couple of minutes.

On Mar 17, 4:08*pm, "h" wrote:
"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message

...







"jamesgangnc" wrote
I defy anyone to drive any time at all with their left foot in the air
above the pedal. *Whether they are aware of it or not, they _will_
have their foot touching the pedal.

Harry K

If you have your left foot on the brake you need to hold the foot up.
Resting the front of your foot on the brake pedal is riding the brakes
on many cars. *After hours on the road you will relax those muscles.

As a practical matter, you don't hold your foot in the air, nor do you
rest in on the pedal. You keep your foot on the floor just like any other
driver. If you are in a situation where you "may" need the brakes at any
time, you can then elect to move that foot to a ready position, thus the
faster reaction time.

"Faster" than using the right foot, which is already there? Left foot
brakers should not be allowed to drive. Period.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I notice the aficiandos have backed off from 'riding with the foot
above the pedal' to 'only when one expects to use it'. Seems to shoot
down their 'faster reaction time' seeing that the right foot is not
only _already there_ but even a bit closer to the brake since it is
on the gas pedal and alredy off the floor. Of course if one is in
cruise then there is no time advantage at all to eithef foot.

Harry K

On Mar 17, 7:48*am, wrote:
On Wed, 17 Mar 2010 06:40:33 -0700 (PDT), Harry K





wrote:
On Mar 17, 5:33*am, wrote:
On Tue, 16 Mar 2010 13:58:35 -0700 (PDT), Harry K

wrote:
On Mar 15, 11:23 am, Douglas Johnson wrote:
Jim Yanik wrote:
using left foot for braking makes it possible for one to apply both brakes
and throttle at the same time.
In most cases,outside of the track,this is not good.

Agreed. So don't do it.

Besides,just because a state or states "encourages" something does not make
it right or proper. States are not any authority on driving techniques.
That "encouragement" could merely derive from some bureaucrat of the same
bent as you guys.

By the same authority, it doesn't make it wrong. I was just using it to confirm
my memory that my Michigan driver's ed taught left foot braking.

IMO,operating differently depending on what car you're using means you
aren't developing the reflex or habit that people revert to under
emergencies.Thus,you could,under pressure,use the wrong foot at a critical
time.

This could be a problem, but hasn't for me. I own both automatics and manuals.
I move between them regularly. I brake with the appropriate foot without
thinking about it, even in an emergency. I've *never* screwed it up..

I'm kind of surprised at the amount of controversy this has stirred up. It's
clear I'm in the minority here and on the net. That's OK. In any case, I'm
done with this topic.

-- Doug

It's not the first time and wont' be the last. It usually shows up in
the driving forums though.

I defy anyone to drive any time at all with their left foot in the air
above the pedal. *Whether they are aware of it or not, they _will_
have their foot touching the pedal.

Harry K

Really? I guess they will need two left feet so they can ride the
clutch as well?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

??? *Who rides with their foot above the clutch unless they are about
to use it?

Harry K

Same answer holds true for the brake pedal. No one needs to have a
foot hovering over the brake pedal to brake with the left foot.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

If your foot isn't already there in an emergency, of what benefit is
LFB? If you _expect_ to use it_ and need that extra little bit of
reaction time, perhaps you shouild be looking at your driving habits,
especially how close you are tailgating.

Harry K

On Mar 16, 10:33*pm, Ashton Crusher wrote:
On Tue, 16 Mar 2010 13:58:35 -0700 (PDT), Harry K





wrote:
On Mar 15, 11:23*am, Douglas Johnson wrote:
Jim Yanik wrote:
using left foot for braking makes it possible for one to apply both brakes
and throttle at the same time.
In most cases,outside of the track,this is not good.

Agreed. *So don't do it.

Besides,just because a state or states "encourages" something does not make
it right or proper. States are not any authority on driving techniques.
That "encouragement" could merely derive from some bureaucrat of the same
bent as you guys.

By the same authority, it doesn't make it wrong. *I was just using it to confirm
my memory that my Michigan driver's ed taught left foot braking.

IMO,operating differently depending on what car you're using means you
aren't developing the reflex or habit that people revert to under
emergencies.Thus,you could,under pressure,use the wrong foot at a critical
time.

This could be a problem, but hasn't for me. *I own both automatics and manuals.
I move between them regularly. *I brake with the appropriate foot without
thinking about it, even in an emergency. *I've *never* screwed it up..

I'm kind of surprised at the amount of controversy this has stirred up.. *It's
clear I'm in the minority here and on the net. *That's OK. *In any case, I'm
done with this topic.

-- Doug

It's not the first time and wont' be the last. It usually shows up in
the driving forums though.

I defy anyone to drive any time at all with their left foot in the air
above the pedal. *Whether they are aware of it or not, they _will_
have their foot touching the pedal.

Harry K

Harry, *I've done it for years and my foot doesn't press the pedal. Is
your foot really so insensitive that you can't tell the difference
between when you are touching something and pressing something? *It's
no different then when someone has their foot on the gas pedal, if
they are moving they are pressing the gas and holding it in a fixed
position. *If they are stopped they will merely be touching it and it
won't move yet you can tell you are touching it. *it's the same with
the brakes. *As I said in the other post, these things are skills that
you learn by doing. *If people don't want to learn them it's their
choice, if they learn them poorly, that's their problem, but there is
no doubt that left foot braking can provide shorter reaction times and
smoother driving, all other things being equal, it's just the physics
of the thing.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

And you just _know_ that you never activate the brake lights just how?

Harry K

On Mar 17, 3:40*pm, wrote:
On Wed, 17 Mar 2010 06:38:38 -0700 (PDT), Harry K





wrote:
On Mar 16, 10:25*pm, Ashton Crusher wrote:
On Tue, 16 Mar 2010 09:39:02 -0700 (PDT), Roy
wrote:

On Mar 16, 8:44*am, Ashton Crusher wrote:
On Sun, 14 Mar 2010 19:50:51 -0700, "Nonny" wrote:
FWIW, I began driving a tractor (clutch) at 10 and cars at 12.
That was in the 50's. *I learned to use my left foot for the
clutch and right for brake and throttle. *In the 80's, I taught my
kids the same thing-first on a John Deere and then a car. *IMHO,
there is no reason, and is a cause for possible harm, to teach a
person to do otherwise. *Sure, the Driver Ed-mobiles and many cars
now have autos, but what good does it to to teach a reaction to
kids that could get them killed when they move up to a manual
transmission eventually?

You do know that people who ride motorcycles use their feet (and
hands) differently then when they drive cars? *Similarly, people who
fly aircraft use their feet (and arms) differently then people who
drive cars? *Yet they all manage to do so safely even when switching
between the various modes of transportation. *Or do you think aircraft
pilots are creating a hazard on the roadways as they drive to and from
the airport? *

The notion that people can't manage to use two feet in different ways
when driving is silly. *Like anything, it's a skill that must be
learned. *If you haven't, or are unable, to learn that skill then by
all means continue to let your left foot just flop around on the floor
and use only your right foot while driving an automatic.. Those of use
with the skill to use both feet will continue to do so and be safer
and more refined drivers as a result. *Perhaps you ought to give it a
try, and I don't mean for 2 minutes, I mean for a week or two until
it's second nature, you might be surprised at how much smoother and
more effectively you can control your car in traffic. *I've driven
(cars [with and without a clutch] and motorcycles) and flown aircraft
and never had a problem with my feet getting confused. *It's something
you LEARN, just like the rest of the skills you acquire in life.

==
"Safer and refined"...what b.s. you are peddling...all in your own
mind perhaps.
==

Perhaps it's just in your mind that other people can't do it because
you can't.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

??? *So you think you can hold your foot in the air for long periods?

Harry K

* Change the topic to "left foot whiners"- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -



Harry K

On Wed, 17 Mar 2010 06:38:38 -0700 (PDT), Harry K
wrote:

On Mar 16, 10:25*pm, Ashton Crusher wrote:
On Tue, 16 Mar 2010 09:39:02 -0700 (PDT), Roy
wrote:





On Mar 16, 8:44*am, Ashton Crusher wrote:
On Sun, 14 Mar 2010 19:50:51 -0700, "Nonny" wrote:
FWIW, I began driving a tractor (clutch) at 10 and cars at 12.
That was in the 50's. *I learned to use my left foot for the
clutch and right for brake and throttle. *In the 80's, I taught my
kids the same thing-first on a John Deere and then a car. *IMHO,
there is no reason, and is a cause for possible harm, to teach a
person to do otherwise. *Sure, the Driver Ed-mobiles and many cars
now have autos, but what good does it to to teach a reaction to
kids that could get them killed when they move up to a manual
transmission eventually?

You do know that people who ride motorcycles use their feet (and
hands) differently then when they drive cars? *Similarly, people who
fly aircraft use their feet (and arms) differently then people who
drive cars? *Yet they all manage to do so safely even when switching
between the various modes of transportation. *Or do you think aircraft
pilots are creating a hazard on the roadways as they drive to and from
the airport? *

The notion that people can't manage to use two feet in different ways
when driving is silly. *Like anything, it's a skill that must be
learned. *If you haven't, or are unable, to learn that skill then by
all means continue to let your left foot just flop around on the floor
and use only your right foot while driving an automatic.. Those of use
with the skill to use both feet will continue to do so and be safer
and more refined drivers as a result. *Perhaps you ought to give it a
try, and I don't mean for 2 minutes, I mean for a week or two until
it's second nature, you might be surprised at how much smoother and
more effectively you can control your car in traffic. *I've driven
(cars [with and without a clutch] and motorcycles) and flown aircraft
and never had a problem with my feet getting confused. *It's something
you LEARN, just like the rest of the skills you acquire in life.

==
"Safer and refined"...what b.s. you are peddling...all in your own
mind perhaps.
==

Perhaps it's just in your mind that other people can't do it because
you can't.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

??? So you think you can hold your foot in the air for long periods?

Harry K


I don't know what you consider a long period. I hold my foot in the
air for anywhere from perhaps a few seconds to half a minute. It
moves back and forth between resting next to the pedal and hovering
over the pedal when I want to be ready for braking. It's all just
second nature. If traffic is slowing up ahead my left foot will
shadow the brake without my right foot moving at all and I just
maintain speed. I can easily cut a half second of reaction time if
something happens, which translates to 44 extra feet to stop in at 60
mph and in the process I don't have to jerk the passengers back and
forth taking my right foot off the gas to be ready. If I'm just
cruising on the open road it's just resting on the floor of course.

On Wed, 17 Mar 2010 18:40:24 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 17 Mar 2010 06:38:38 -0700 (PDT), Harry K
wrote:

On Mar 16, 10:25*pm, Ashton Crusher wrote:
On Tue, 16 Mar 2010 09:39:02 -0700 (PDT), Roy
wrote:





On Mar 16, 8:44*am, Ashton Crusher wrote:
On Sun, 14 Mar 2010 19:50:51 -0700, "Nonny" wrote:
FWIW, I began driving a tractor (clutch) at 10 and cars at 12.
That was in the 50's. *I learned to use my left foot for the
clutch and right for brake and throttle. *In the 80's, I taught my
kids the same thing-first on a John Deere and then a car. *IMHO,
there is no reason, and is a cause for possible harm, to teach a
person to do otherwise. *Sure, the Driver Ed-mobiles and many cars
now have autos, but what good does it to to teach a reaction to
kids that could get them killed when they move up to a manual
transmission eventually?

You do know that people who ride motorcycles use their feet (and
hands) differently then when they drive cars? *Similarly, people who
fly aircraft use their feet (and arms) differently then people who
drive cars? *Yet they all manage to do so safely even when switching
between the various modes of transportation. *Or do you think aircraft
pilots are creating a hazard on the roadways as they drive to and from
the airport? *

The notion that people can't manage to use two feet in different ways
when driving is silly. *Like anything, it's a skill that must be
learned. *If you haven't, or are unable, to learn that skill then by
all means continue to let your left foot just flop around on the floor
and use only your right foot while driving an automatic.. Those of use
with the skill to use both feet will continue to do so and be safer
and more refined drivers as a result. *Perhaps you ought to give it a
try, and I don't mean for 2 minutes, I mean for a week or two until
it's second nature, you might be surprised at how much smoother and
more effectively you can control your car in traffic. *I've driven
(cars [with and without a clutch] and motorcycles) and flown aircraft
and never had a problem with my feet getting confused. *It's something
you LEARN, just like the rest of the skills you acquire in life.

==
"Safer and refined"...what b.s. you are peddling...all in your own
mind perhaps.
==

Perhaps it's just in your mind that other people can't do it because
you can't.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

??? So you think you can hold your foot in the air for long periods?

Harry K
Change the topic to "left foot whiners"


It really should be right foot whiners. They are the people whinning
about the world coming to an end. The left footers don't have any
issues.

On Wed, 17 Mar 2010 08:03:40 -0700 (PDT), jamesgangnc
wrote:

On Mar 17, 1:33*am, Ashton Crusher wrote:
On Tue, 16 Mar 2010 13:58:35 -0700 (PDT), Harry K





wrote:
On Mar 15, 11:23*am, Douglas Johnson wrote:
Jim Yanik wrote:
using left foot for braking makes it possible for one to apply both brakes
and throttle at the same time.
In most cases,outside of the track,this is not good.

Agreed. *So don't do it.

Besides,just because a state or states "encourages" something does not make
it right or proper. States are not any authority on driving techniques.
That "encouragement" could merely derive from some bureaucrat of the same
bent as you guys.

By the same authority, it doesn't make it wrong. *I was just using it to confirm
my memory that my Michigan driver's ed taught left foot braking.

IMO,operating differently depending on what car you're using means you
aren't developing the reflex or habit that people revert to under
emergencies.Thus,you could,under pressure,use the wrong foot at a critical
time.

This could be a problem, but hasn't for me. *I own both automatics and manuals.
I move between them regularly. *I brake with the appropriate foot without
thinking about it, even in an emergency. *I've *never* screwed it up.

I'm kind of surprised at the amount of controversy this has stirred up. *It's
clear I'm in the minority here and on the net. *That's OK. *In any case, I'm
done with this topic.

-- Doug

It's not the first time and wont' be the last. It usually shows up in
the driving forums though.

I defy anyone to drive any time at all with their left foot in the air
above the pedal. *Whether they are aware of it or not, they _will_
have their foot touching the pedal.

Harry K

Harry, *I've done it for years and my foot doesn't press the pedal. Is
your foot really so insensitive that you can't tell the difference
between when you are touching something and pressing something? *It's
no different then when someone has their foot on the gas pedal, if
they are moving they are pressing the gas and holding it in a fixed
position. *If they are stopped they will merely be touching it and it
won't move yet you can tell you are touching it. *it's the same with
the brakes. *As I said in the other post, these things are skills that
you learn by doing. *If people don't want to learn them it's their
choice, if they learn them poorly, that's their problem, but there is
no doubt that left foot braking can provide shorter reaction times and
smoother driving, all other things being equal, it's just the physics
of the thing.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

If you have your left foot on the brake you need to hold the foot up.
Resting the front of your foot on the brake pedal is riding the brakes
on many cars. After hours on the road you will relax those muscles.


There seems to be some serious misunderstanding of what left foot
braking is. You don't just put your foot on the brake pedal, or put
your foot over the pedal, and leave it there for the whole time you
are driving. You mostly just have it resting on the floor, just like
you would if you used your right foot. However, when a situation
comes up where you *might* need to brake you get ready to brake by
moving your foot over the pedal, and if you are experienced and
skilled, you might be touching, NOT pressing, the pedal. You might
hold that position for only a few seconds to half a minute. In heavy
traffic you might be moving your foot in and out of that position
several times per mile if the traffic situation warrants. And of
course some of the time you actually apply the brakes. But you don't
just hover your foot over the pedal till your leg goes numb.

On Wed, 17 Mar 2010 19:08:02 -0400, "h"
wrote:


"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
m...

"jamesgangnc" wrote
I defy anyone to drive any time at all with their left foot in the air
above the pedal. Whether they are aware of it or not, they _will_
have their foot touching the pedal.

Harry K

If you have your left foot on the brake you need to hold the foot up.
Resting the front of your foot on the brake pedal is riding the brakes
on many cars. After hours on the road you will relax those muscles.

As a practical matter, you don't hold your foot in the air, nor do you
rest in on the pedal. You keep your foot on the floor just like any other
driver. If you are in a situation where you "may" need the brakes at any
time, you can then elect to move that foot to a ready position, thus the
faster reaction time.

"Faster" than using the right foot, which is already there? Left foot
brakers should not be allowed to drive. Period.


The right foot is not already there, it's pushing on the gas. That's
why LFB is better, you can be PREPARED to brake before you even let
off the gas. If you don't need to brake nothing's been lost.

On Wed, 17 Mar 2010 18:44:53 -0500, Jim Yanik
wrote:

"h" wrote in
:


"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

"jamesgangnc" wrote
I defy anyone to drive any time at all with their left foot in the
air above the pedal. Whether they are aware of it or not, they
_will_ have their foot touching the pedal.

Harry K

If you have your left foot on the brake you need to hold the foot
up. Resting the front of your foot on the brake pedal is riding the
brakes on many cars. After hours on the road you will relax those
muscles.

As a practical matter, you don't hold your foot in the air, nor do
you rest in on the pedal. You keep your foot on the floor just like
any other driver. If you are in a situation where you "may" need the
brakes at any time, you can then elect to move that foot to a ready
position, thus the faster reaction time.

Or allowing for confusion and the wrong foot applying pressure to the wrong
pedal.
It also allows pressure to be applied to BOTH pedals at the same time.
(riding the brake;not good for both car and traffic behind it.)

and the reflex HABIT of always using the same foot for the braking task
never gets developed,and in an emergency,confusion can result.

"Faster" than using the right foot, which is already there? Left foot
brakers should not be allowed to drive. Period.

No,just on racetracks.
Maybe the "dead pedal" on auto tranny cars should be a deadman's switch;
remove the foot from it and the engine shuts off.


It's interesting that the person, you, who has zero skill at left foot
braking holds themselves out as the expert on what will happen to
people who left foot brake. You are completely wrong, not
surprisingly, since you are speaking from a position of ignorance. Why
don't you talk about something you actually know something about,
assuming there is some such subject.

On Wed, 17 Mar 2010 21:21:30 -0700 (PDT), Harry K
wrote:

On Mar 17, 4:08*pm, "h" wrote:
"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message

...







"jamesgangnc" wrote
I defy anyone to drive any time at all with their left foot in the air
above the pedal. *Whether they are aware of it or not, they _will_
have their foot touching the pedal.

Harry K

If you have your left foot on the brake you need to hold the foot up.
Resting the front of your foot on the brake pedal is riding the brakes
on many cars. *After hours on the road you will relax those muscles.

As a practical matter, you don't hold your foot in the air, nor do you
rest in on the pedal. You keep your foot on the floor just like any other
driver. If you are in a situation where you "may" need the brakes at any
time, you can then elect to move that foot to a ready position, thus the
faster reaction time.

"Faster" than using the right foot, which is already there? Left foot
brakers should not be allowed to drive. Period.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I notice the aficiandos have backed off from 'riding with the foot
above the pedal' to 'only when one expects to use it'. Seems to shoot
down their 'faster reaction time' seeing that the right foot is not
only _already there_ but even a bit closer to the brake since it is
on the gas pedal and alredy off the floor. Of course if one is in
cruise then there is no time advantage at all to eithef foot.

Harry K


None of the aficionados has backed off something. It's the people who
don't know what they are talking about who keep saying left foot
brakers drive around "with their foot above the pedal" as if they have
it there the whole time they are driving. LFBers brake with the left
foot by moving their foot in and out of position just like right foot
brakers do, the main difference is that unlike right foot brakers,
they can maintain position and speed on the throttle with their right
foot while using the left foot to prepare to brake thereby driving in
a smoother manner with greater safety all other things being equal.

On Wed, 17 Mar 2010 21:27:04 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 17 Mar 2010 18:50:47 -0400, "Ed Pawlowski"
wrote:


"jamesgangnc" wrote
I defy anyone to drive any time at all with their left foot in the air
above the pedal. Whether they are aware of it or not, they _will_
have their foot touching the pedal.

Harry K

If you have your left foot on the brake you need to hold the foot up.
Resting the front of your foot on the brake pedal is riding the brakes
on many cars. After hours on the road you will relax those muscles.

As a practical matter, you don't hold your foot in the air, nor do you rest
in on the pedal. You keep your foot on the floor just like any other driver.
If you are in a situation where you "may" need the brakes at any time, you
can then elect to move that foot to a ready position, thus the faster
reaction time.
If you are a right-foot braker and you are in a situation where you
might need to brake at any time you take your RIGHT foot off the
accellerator, and while it is still in motion, without having to
command the LEFT foot to do anything, you hit the brakes.

Much faster reaction time, and NO CHANCE that both feet will be down
at the same time on both pedals.

Left foot braking IS dangerous - it doesn't matter how many years YOU
have gotten away with it..


how ridiculous. whatever you can do with your right foot you can do
just as quickly with your left foot. The difference is that you can
pre-position your left foot in situations where you would not be
taking your right foot off the throttle. In doing so you eliminate
about a half second of reaction time should that situation deteriorate
to where you do need to brake. There is nothing dangerous about left
foot braking, to the contrary, it's safer then right foot braking. You
sound like a hysterical old woman.

On Wed, 17 Mar 2010 19:05:29 -0700 (PDT), Roy
wrote:

On Mar 17, 7:27*pm, wrote:
On Wed, 17 Mar 2010 18:50:47 -0400, "Ed Pawlowski"



wrote:

"jamesgangnc" wrote
I defy anyone to drive any time at all with their left foot in the air
above the pedal. *Whether they are aware of it or not, they _will_
have their foot touching the pedal.

Harry K

If you have your left foot on the brake you need to hold the foot up.
Resting the front of your foot on the brake pedal is riding the brakes
on many cars. *After hours on the road you will relax those muscles.

As a practical matter, you don't hold your foot in the air, nor do you rest
in on the pedal. You keep your foot on the floor just like any other driver.
If you are in a situation where you "may" need the brakes at any time, you
can then elect to move that foot to a ready position, thus the faster
reaction time.

* If you are a right-foot braker and you are in a situation where you
might need to brake at any time you take your RIGHT foot off the
accellerator, and while it is still in motion, without having to
command the LEFT foot to do anything, you hit the brakes.

Much faster reaction time, and NO CHANCE that both feet will be down
at the same time on both pedals.

Left foot braking IS dangerous - it doesn't matter how many years YOU
have gotten away with it..

==
Exactly.
==


I bet you are worried the Hadron Collider is going to create a black
hole and the earth will get sucked into it.

On Wed, 17 Mar 2010 21:28:57 -0700 (PDT), Harry K
wrote:

On Mar 16, 10:33*pm, Ashton Crusher wrote:
On Tue, 16 Mar 2010 13:58:35 -0700 (PDT), Harry K





wrote:
On Mar 15, 11:23*am, Douglas Johnson wrote:
Jim Yanik wrote:
using left foot for braking makes it possible for one to apply both brakes
and throttle at the same time.
In most cases,outside of the track,this is not good.

Agreed. *So don't do it.

Besides,just because a state or states "encourages" something does not make
it right or proper. States are not any authority on driving techniques.
That "encouragement" could merely derive from some bureaucrat of the same
bent as you guys.

By the same authority, it doesn't make it wrong. *I was just using it to confirm
my memory that my Michigan driver's ed taught left foot braking.

IMO,operating differently depending on what car you're using means you
aren't developing the reflex or habit that people revert to under
emergencies.Thus,you could,under pressure,use the wrong foot at a critical
time.

This could be a problem, but hasn't for me. *I own both automatics and manuals.
I move between them regularly. *I brake with the appropriate foot without
thinking about it, even in an emergency. *I've *never* screwed it up.

I'm kind of surprised at the amount of controversy this has stirred up. *It's
clear I'm in the minority here and on the net. *That's OK. *In any case, I'm
done with this topic.

-- Doug

It's not the first time and wont' be the last. It usually shows up in
the driving forums though.

I defy anyone to drive any time at all with their left foot in the air
above the pedal. *Whether they are aware of it or not, they _will_
have their foot touching the pedal.

Harry K

Harry, *I've done it for years and my foot doesn't press the pedal. Is
your foot really so insensitive that you can't tell the difference
between when you are touching something and pressing something? *It's
no different then when someone has their foot on the gas pedal, if
they are moving they are pressing the gas and holding it in a fixed
position. *If they are stopped they will merely be touching it and it
won't move yet you can tell you are touching it. *it's the same with
the brakes. *As I said in the other post, these things are skills that
you learn by doing. *If people don't want to learn them it's their
choice, if they learn them poorly, that's their problem, but there is
no doubt that left foot braking can provide shorter reaction times and
smoother driving, all other things being equal, it's just the physics
of the thing.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

And you just _know_ that you never activate the brake lights just how?

Harry K

Because doing so causes my lockup torque converter to unlock and
that's very noticeable.

On Mar 17, 11:13*pm, Ashton Crusher wrote:
On Wed, 17 Mar 2010 06:38:38 -0700 (PDT), Harry K





wrote:
On Mar 16, 10:25*pm, Ashton Crusher wrote:
On Tue, 16 Mar 2010 09:39:02 -0700 (PDT), Roy
wrote:

On Mar 16, 8:44*am, Ashton Crusher wrote:
On Sun, 14 Mar 2010 19:50:51 -0700, "Nonny" wrote:
FWIW, I began driving a tractor (clutch) at 10 and cars at 12.
That was in the 50's. *I learned to use my left foot for the
clutch and right for brake and throttle. *In the 80's, I taught my
kids the same thing-first on a John Deere and then a car. *IMHO,
there is no reason, and is a cause for possible harm, to teach a
person to do otherwise. *Sure, the Driver Ed-mobiles and many cars
now have autos, but what good does it to to teach a reaction to
kids that could get them killed when they move up to a manual
transmission eventually?

You do know that people who ride motorcycles use their feet (and
hands) differently then when they drive cars? *Similarly, people who
fly aircraft use their feet (and arms) differently then people who
drive cars? *Yet they all manage to do so safely even when switching
between the various modes of transportation. *Or do you think aircraft
pilots are creating a hazard on the roadways as they drive to and from
the airport? *

The notion that people can't manage to use two feet in different ways
when driving is silly. *Like anything, it's a skill that must be
learned. *If you haven't, or are unable, to learn that skill then by
all means continue to let your left foot just flop around on the floor
and use only your right foot while driving an automatic.. Those of use
with the skill to use both feet will continue to do so and be safer
and more refined drivers as a result. *Perhaps you ought to give it a
try, and I don't mean for 2 minutes, I mean for a week or two until
it's second nature, you might be surprised at how much smoother and
more effectively you can control your car in traffic. *I've driven
(cars [with and without a clutch] and motorcycles) and flown aircraft
and never had a problem with my feet getting confused. *It's something
you LEARN, just like the rest of the skills you acquire in life.

==
"Safer and refined"...what b.s. you are peddling...all in your own
mind perhaps.
==

Perhaps it's just in your mind that other people can't do it because
you can't.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

??? *So you think you can hold your foot in the air for long periods?

Harry K

I don't know what you consider a long period. *I hold my foot in the
air for anywhere from perhaps a few seconds to half a minute. *It
moves back and forth between resting next to the pedal and hovering
over the pedal when I want to be ready for braking. It's all just
second nature. *If traffic is slowing up ahead my left foot will
shadow the brake without my right foot moving at all and I just
maintain speed. *I can easily cut a half second of reaction time if
something happens, which translates to 44 extra feet to stop in at 60
mph and in the process I don't have to jerk the passengers back and
forth taking my right foot off the gas to be ready. * If I'm just
cruising on the open road it's just resting on the floor of course.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

So in an emergency you LFB is useless as it gains nothing. And in
traffic just adding a few feet following distance avoids the _need_
for it. You make an extremely poor case.

Harry K

On Mar 17, 11:26*pm, Ashton Crusher wrote:
On Wed, 17 Mar 2010 18:44:53 -0500, Jim Yanik
wrote:





"h" wrote in
:

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
om...

"jamesgangnc" wrote
I defy anyone to drive any time at all with their left foot in the
air above the pedal. *Whether they are aware of it or not, they
_will_ have their foot touching the pedal.

Harry K

If you have your left foot on the brake you need to hold the foot
up. Resting the front of your foot on the brake pedal is riding the
brakes on many cars. *After hours on the road you will relax those
muscles.

As a practical matter, you don't hold your foot in the air, nor do
you rest in on the pedal. You keep your foot on the floor just like
any other driver. If you are in a situation where you "may" need the
brakes at any time, you can then elect to move that foot to a ready
position, thus the faster reaction time.

Or allowing for confusion and the wrong foot applying pressure to the wrong
pedal.
It also allows pressure to be applied to BOTH pedals at the same time.
(riding the brake;not good for both car and traffic behind it.)

and the reflex HABIT of always using the same foot for the braking task
never gets developed,and in an emergency,confusion can result.

"Faster" than using the right foot, which is already there? Left foot
brakers should not be allowed to drive. Period.

No,just on racetracks.
Maybe the "dead pedal" on auto tranny cars should be a deadman's switch;
remove the foot from it and the engine shuts off.

It's interesting that the person, you, who has zero skill at left foot
braking holds themselves out as the expert on what will happen to
people who left foot brake. *You are completely wrong, not
surprisingly, since you are speaking from a position of ignorance. Why
don't you talk about something you actually know something about,
assuming there is some such subject.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Hooo boy, are you wrong about his experience!!!

Harry K

On Mar 17, 11:23*pm, Ashton Crusher wrote:
On Wed, 17 Mar 2010 19:08:02 -0400, "h"
wrote:







"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
m...

"jamesgangnc" wrote
I defy anyone to drive any time at all with their left foot in the air
above the pedal. *Whether they are aware of it or not, they _will_
have their foot touching the pedal.

Harry K

If you have your left foot on the brake you need to hold the foot up.
Resting the front of your foot on the brake pedal is riding the brakes
on many cars. *After hours on the road you will relax those muscles..

As a practical matter, you don't hold your foot in the air, nor do you
rest in on the pedal. You keep your foot on the floor just like any other
driver. If you are in a situation where you "may" need the brakes at any
time, you can then elect to move that foot to a ready position, thus the
faster reaction time.

"Faster" than using the right foot, which is already there? Left foot
brakers should not be allowed to drive. Period.

The right foot is not already there, it's pushing on the gas. *That's
why LFB is better, you can be PREPARED to brake before you even let
off the gas. * If you don't need to brake nothing's been lost.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

So just how do you know when an emergecny is going ot occur so you can
put you Left foot over the pedal? You keep harping about reaction
time. That only counts in emergencies when you have you foot on the
floor....unless you consistently tail gate of course.

Harry K

On Mar 18, 5:14*am, wrote:
On Wed, 17 Mar 2010 23:39:54 -0700, Ashton Crusher
wrote:





On Wed, 17 Mar 2010 21:27:04 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 17 Mar 2010 18:50:47 -0400, "Ed Pawlowski"
wrote:

"jamesgangnc" wrote
I defy anyone to drive any time at all with their left foot in the air
above the pedal. *Whether they are aware of it or not, they _will_
have their foot touching the pedal.

Harry K

If you have your left foot on the brake you need to hold the foot up..
Resting the front of your foot on the brake pedal is riding the brakes
on many cars. *After hours on the road you will relax those muscles.

As a practical matter, you don't hold your foot in the air, nor do you rest
in on the pedal. You keep your foot on the floor just like any other driver.
If you are in a situation where you "may" need the brakes at any time, you
can then elect to move that foot to a ready position, thus the faster
reaction time.
*If you are a right-foot braker and you are in a situation where you
might need to brake at any time you take your RIGHT foot off the
accellerator, and while it is still in motion, without having to
command the LEFT foot to do anything, you hit the brakes.

Much faster reaction time, and NO CHANCE that both feet will be down
at the same time on both pedals.

Left foot braking IS dangerous - it doesn't matter how many years YOU
have gotten away with it..

how ridiculous. *whatever you can do with your right foot you can do
just as quickly with your left foot. *The difference is that you can
pre-position your left foot in situations where you would not be
taking your right foot off the throttle. *In doing so you eliminate
about a half second of reaction time should that situation deteriorate
to where you do need to brake. *There is nothing dangerous about left
foot braking, to the contrary, it's safer then right foot braking. You
sound like a hysterical old woman.

The ONLY reason that braking with the right foot is customary is
because cars used to have a third pedal for the clutch. If the first
cars had come equipped with automatic transmissions, NO ONE would use
their right foot for braking. It would be stone cold stupid to do
everything with one foot, unless your other foot had been amputated.

Do these chuckleheads steer with only one hand, because in the olden
days, you needed your other hand for shifting?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Now THAT goes beyond stupid. The only car I know of that had 3 pedals
was the Model T.

Harry K