I'm interested in opinions of the merits of using copper versus cpvc (other
than cost). I recently had a cpvc pipe break inside the wall, and I'm in
the process of replacing all of the in-wall pipes for the bathrooms with
copper. The main feed lines are cpvc and are in the basement and readily
accessible. Repairs to these are quick and easy if necessary. I mostly want
the in-wall stuff that is not easily accessible to be copper, and I can be
easily convinced to leave the cpvc in the basement alone.

Question - am I just unlucky, or does plastic (cpvc) pipe have much higher
breakage incidents? Is there any reason to just replace all of it with
copper, or should it work OK and I should just leave it alone?

Zootal wrote the following:
I'm interested in opinions of the merits of using copper versus cpvc (other
than cost). I recently had a cpvc pipe break inside the wall, and I'm in
the process of replacing all of the in-wall pipes for the bathrooms with
copper. The main feed lines are cpvc and are in the basement and readily
accessible. Repairs to these are quick and easy if necessary. I mostly want
the in-wall stuff that is not easily accessible to be copper, and I can be
easily convinced to leave the cpvc in the basement alone.

Question - am I just unlucky, or does plastic (cpvc) pipe have much higher
breakage incidents? Is there any reason to just replace all of it with
copper, or should it work OK and I should just leave it alone?


Was the pipe in an outside wall and did it break due to freezing temps?
If so, copper can also break when water freezes in them.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

Was the pipe in an outside wall and did it break due to freezing
temps? If so, copper can also break when water freezes in them.


It was in an inside wall. It broke because a book fell off of the back of
the toilet and hit the pipe where it came through the wall.

In . 97.131,
Zootal typed:
I'm interested in opinions of the merits of using copper versus cpvc
(other than cost). I recently had a cpvc pipe break inside the wall,
and I'm in the process of replacing all of the in-wall pipes for the
bathrooms with copper. The main feed lines are cpvc and are in the
basement and readily accessible. Repairs to these are quick and easy
if necessary. I mostly want the in-wall stuff that is not easily
accessible to be copper, and I can be easily convinced to leave the
cpvc in the basement alone.

Question - am I just unlucky, or does plastic (cpvc) pipe have much
higher breakage incidents? Is there any reason to just replace all of
it with copper, or should it work OK and I should just leave it alone?

That would depend on the reason for the breakage. CPVC pipe is reliable as
long as it's not twisted, pushed or pulled to ther e is a constant stress on
it. If it broke due to freezing, copper won't be much of an improvement over
the plastic properly installed.

What was the faiure mechanism, and what is known about causing it?

HTH,

Twayne


--
--
Newsgroups are great places to get assistance.
But always verify important information with
other sources to be certain you have a clear
understanding of it and that it is accurate.

On Feb 8, 1:31*pm, Zootal wrote:
I'm interested in opinions of the merits of using copper versus cpvc (other
than cost). I recently had a cpvc pipe break inside the wall, and I'm in
the process of replacing all of the in-wall pipes for the bathrooms with
copper. The main feed lines are cpvc and are in the basement and readily
accessible. Repairs to these are quick and easy if necessary. I mostly want
the in-wall stuff that is not easily accessible to be copper, and I can be
easily convinced to leave the cpvc in the basement alone.

Question - am I just unlucky, or does plastic (cpvc) pipe have much higher
breakage incidents? Is there any reason to just replace all of it with
copper, or should it work OK and I should just leave it alone?

Have you looked into PEX? If not, you should. If you're planning on
replacing piping, PEX should be seriously considered. It's more
robust that CPVC in many ways, the cost and installation time are both
much better than with copper or CPVC, it handles the occasional
freeze a lot better than either alternative, etc. Couple that, pun
intended!, with some Sharkbite fittings (not cheap, but quick and
secure), or a crimping tool if you're doing a lot.

R

On Feb 8, 2:22*pm, Zootal wrote:
Was the pipe in an outside wall and did it break due to freezing
temps? If so, copper can also break when water freezes in them.

It was in an inside wall. It broke because a book fell off of the back of
the toilet and hit the pipe where it came through the wall.

I certainly would not go thorugh the process of replacing a bunch of
cpvc because a piece was damaged from impact. Sounds like you have
too much time on your hands. How about coming over to my house and
I'll give you some better chores. haha, nothin personal :-)

That would depend on the reason for the breakage. CPVC pipe is
reliable as long as it's not twisted, pushed or pulled to ther e is a
constant stress on it. If it broke due to freezing, copper won't be
much of an improvement over the plastic properly installed.

What was the faiure mechanism, and what is known about causing it?

HTH,

Twayne



My first suspicion was that when the valve was screwed onto the end of the
pipe, it twisted/stressed/cracked the pipe inside of the wall. A book fell
off of the toilet and hit the pipe and finished the job. That shouldn't
have broken the pipe, but it did.

The end result is that it broke, and wouldn't have if it were copper and
I'm still in a I-hate-plastic-replace-it-all-with-copper mood right now :-)

jamesgangnc wrote in
:

On Feb 8, 2:22*pm, Zootal wrote:
Was the pipe in an outside wall and did it break due to freezing
temps? If so, copper can also break when water freezes in them.

It was in an inside wall. It broke because a book fell off of the
back of the toilet and hit the pipe where it came through the wall.

I certainly would not go thorugh the process of replacing a bunch of
cpvc because a piece was damaged from impact. Sounds like you have
too much time on your hands. How about coming over to my house and
I'll give you some better chores. haha, nothin personal :-)


I have to take the wall apart anyhow. If I'm going to all that trouble, I
might as well repalce the plastic while I'm in there.

What I'm mostly curious about is how often plastic actually breaks? I
personally think using plastic in places where it comes through the wall
for a shower head or valve is not a good idea - those are subject to stress
and in my uneducated opinion, they should be copper. Nice and strong metal.

And it's the plastic running through the basement that I'm most concerned
about. I'd hate to hit one with a 2x4 by accident and have it break. My
wood working area has pipes running along the ceiling directly above.

On Feb 8, 2:46*pm, Zootal wrote:
jamesgangnc wrote :

On Feb 8, 2:22*pm, Zootal wrote:
Was the pipe in an outside wall and did it break due to freezing
temps? If so, copper can also break when water freezes in them.

It was in an inside wall. It broke because a book fell off of the
back of the toilet and hit the pipe where it came through the wall.

I certainly would not go thorugh the process of replacing a bunch of
cpvc because a piece was damaged from impact. *Sounds like you have
too much time on your hands. *How about coming over to my house and
I'll give you some better chores. haha, nothin personal :-)

I have to take the wall apart anyhow. If I'm going to all that trouble, I
might as well repalce the plastic while I'm in there.

What I'm mostly curious about is how often plastic actually breaks? I
personally think using plastic in places where it comes through the wall
for a shower head or valve is not a good idea - those are subject to stress
and in my uneducated opinion, they should be copper. Nice and strong metal.

And it's the plastic running through the basement that I'm most concerned
about. I'd hate to hit one with a 2x4 by accident and have it break. My
wood working area has pipes running along the ceiling directly above.

Got it in my house. Never had any of it break. Shower hook up is
metal, cpvc runs up to it. Did it really break that far back into the
wall? I'd make sure I couldn't just enlarge the opening a little and
glue an new section on.

Got it in my house. Never had any of it break. Shower hook up is
metal, cpvc runs up to it. Did it really break that far back into the
wall? I'd make sure I couldn't just enlarge the opening a little and
glue an new section on.


I already have it apart. The pipe comes up through the floor, through an
elbow, and out the wall. It broke at the elbow. At the least I would have
had to cut off the elbow, extend the verticle that comes through the floor,
and replace the elbow and pipe that extends through the wall. I actually
replaced everything from the runner in the basement and up with copper.
That part of the job is done.

On Feb 8, 11:46*am, Zootal wrote:
jamesgangnc wrote :

On Feb 8, 2:22*pm, Zootal wrote:
Was the pipe in an outside wall and did it break due to freezing
temps? If so, copper can also break when water freezes in them.

It was in an inside wall. It broke because a book fell off of the
back of the toilet and hit the pipe where it came through the wall.

I certainly would not go thorugh the process of replacing a bunch of
cpvc because a piece was damaged from impact. *Sounds like you have
too much time on your hands. *How about coming over to my house and
I'll give you some better chores. haha, nothin personal :-)

I have to take the wall apart anyhow. If I'm going to all that trouble, I
might as well repalce the plastic while I'm in there.

What I'm mostly curious about is how often plastic actually breaks? I
personally think using plastic in places where it comes through the wall
for a shower head or valve is not a good idea - those are subject to stress
and in my uneducated opinion, they should be copper. Nice and strong metal.

And it's the plastic running through the basement that I'm most concerned
about. I'd hate to hit one with a 2x4 by accident and have it break. My
wood working area has pipes running along the ceiling directly above.

I have been following the CPVC/PEX/COPPER/GALV discussions sing the
days of DEJA news. Don't ever recall any mentions of CPVC haveing a
problem with failures. My redo in this old house was finished 20
years ago, all is CPVC and I haven't had a failure yet (knock on
wood).

Harry K

On Feb 8, 3:41*pm, Harry K wrote:
On Feb 8, 11:46*am, Zootal wrote:





jamesgangnc wrote :

On Feb 8, 2:22*pm, Zootal wrote:
Was the pipe in an outside wall and did it break due to freezing
temps? If so, copper can also break when water freezes in them.

It was in an inside wall. It broke because a book fell off of the
back of the toilet and hit the pipe where it came through the wall.

I certainly would not go thorugh the process of replacing a bunch of
cpvc because a piece was damaged from impact. *Sounds like you have
too much time on your hands. *How about coming over to my house and
I'll give you some better chores. haha, nothin personal :-)

I have to take the wall apart anyhow. If I'm going to all that trouble, I
might as well repalce the plastic while I'm in there.

What I'm mostly curious about is how often plastic actually breaks? I
personally think using plastic in places where it comes through the wall
for a shower head or valve is not a good idea - those are subject to stress
and in my uneducated opinion, they should be copper. Nice and strong metal.

And it's the plastic running through the basement that I'm most concerned
about. I'd hate to hit one with a 2x4 by accident and have it break. My
wood working area has pipes running along the ceiling directly above.

I have been following the CPVC/PEX/COPPER/GALV discussions sing the
days of DEJA news. *Don't ever recall any mentions of CPVC haveing a
problem with failures. *My redo in this old house was finished 20
years ago, all is CPVC and I haven't had a failure yet (knock on
wood).

Harry K- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yea I used to do copper but the cpvc is way easier to do. I hated
doing copper in the crawl of our 2 story house. It was such a pain to
get the water out so I could solder. Seemed like everytime I starte
dto heat it up here would come just a little more water.

On Feb 8, 12:31*pm, Zootal wrote:
I'm interested in opinions of the merits of using copper versus cpvc (other
than cost). I recently had a cpvc pipe break inside the wall, and I'm in
the process of replacing all of the in-wall pipes for the bathrooms with
copper. The main feed lines are cpvc and are in the basement and readily
accessible. Repairs to these are quick and easy if necessary. I mostly want
the in-wall stuff that is not easily accessible to be copper, and I can be
easily convinced to leave the cpvc in the basement alone.

Question - am I just unlucky, or does plastic (cpvc) pipe have much higher
breakage incidents? Is there any reason to just replace all of it with
copper, or should it work OK and I should just leave it alone?

On Feb 8, 2:22*pm, Zootal wrote:
Was the pipe in an outside wall and did it break due to freezing
temps? If so, copper can also break when water freezes in them.

It was in an inside wall. It broke because a book fell off of the back of
the toilet and hit the pipe where it came through the wall.

Thats a one in a million happening. I would consider bringing CU
through the wall but not rework my whole bathroom. I have Cu or brass
coming through my walls but all of the rest of the plumbing is
plastic. None of my plumbing is where it could be attacked by falling
books but if it were I would do something to protect it no matter of
what it was made.

You should no have such heavy reading in the bathroom.

Jimmie

JIMMIE wrote in
:

On Feb 8, 2:22*pm, Zootal wrote:
Was the pipe in an outside wall and did it break due to freezing
temps? If so, copper can also break when water freezes in them.

It was in an inside wall. It broke because a book fell off of the
back of the toilet and hit the pipe where it came through the wall.

Thats a one in a million happening. I would consider bringing CU
through the wall but not rework my whole bathroom. I have Cu or brass
coming through my walls but all of the rest of the plumbing is
plastic. None of my plumbing is where it could be attacked by falling
books but if it were I would do something to protect it no matter of
what it was made.

You should no have such heavy reading in the bathroom.

Jimmie


PUlease...you would not believe how many books my kids keep in the
bathroom...of course, some of them are mine *ahem*....

It was in an inside wall. It broke because a book
fell off of the back of the toilet and hit the pipe
where it came through the wall.

CPVC plumbing is inexpensive, easy to install and repair, somewhat
flexible, and impervious to acidic or harsh water conditions. Those are
some of the reasons I chose it for my own house.

However, plastic pipe of any kind is not very good at resisting physical
stresses, like yanking on a tight valve, or dropping a book on an exposed
pipe.

In my house, I used solid brass drop-ear "transition elbows". Basically,
it's a brass elbow with little flanges on either side that you screw to
blocking for a solid mounting. Then there's a mechanical coupling on the
bottom with a gasket that joins the CPVC to the brass fitting. There are a
few different variations on the drop-ear transition elbow, but most home
centers should carry at least one of the styles.

Then I used solid brass pipe nipples to extend from the elbow out through
the wall, where I threaded on a metal shut-off valve.

I get all the benefits of the CPVC plumbing, with the rugged benefits of
metal piping where it's exposed to damage.

Anthony

On Feb 9, 10:55*am, HerHusband wrote:

However, plastic pipe of any kind is not very good at resisting physical
stresses, like yanking on a tight valve, or dropping a book on an exposed
pipe.

I'll gladly hit PEX with a hammer and it won't affect it unless I try
to crush it entirely. Lesser blows would destroy any other piping,
metal or plastic, before the PEX showed lasting damage.

PEX has a plastic memory - it returns to shape. No other plumbing
material that I'm aware of has that. It's what makes it so much more
freeze-proof than other piping.

R

On Feb 9, 2:23*pm, RicodJour wrote:
On Feb 9, 10:55*am, HerHusband wrote:



However, plastic pipe of any kind is not very good at resisting physical
stresses, like yanking on a tight valve, or dropping a book on an exposed
pipe.

I'll gladly hit PEX with a hammer and it won't affect it unless I try
to crush it entirely. *Lesser blows would destroy any other piping,
metal or plastic, before the PEX showed lasting damage.

PEX has a plastic memory - it returns to shape. *No other plumbing
material that I'm aware of has that. *It's what makes it so much more
freeze-proof than other piping.

R

Ive had a temporary PEX line freeze several times this winter. Its
about a 30ft line running out to the kennel that I set up just before
the first freeze. I didnt get a chance to bury it and it looks like it
may be a couple of more months before I do.

Jimmie

JIMMIE wrote in
:

On Feb 9, 2:23*pm, RicodJour wrote:
On Feb 9, 10:55*am, HerHusband wrote:



However, plastic pipe of any kind is not very good at resisting
physica
l
stresses, like yanking on a tight valve, or dropping a book on an
expos
ed
pipe.

I'll gladly hit PEX with a hammer and it won't affect it unless I try
to crush it entirely. *Lesser blows would destroy any other piping,
metal or plastic, before the PEX showed lasting damage.

PEX has a plastic memory - it returns to shape. *No other plumbing
material that I'm aware of has that. *It's what makes it so much more
freeze-proof than other piping.

R

Ive had a temporary PEX line freeze several times this winter. Its
about a 30ft line running out to the kennel that I set up just before
the first freeze. I didnt get a chance to bury it and it looks like it
may be a couple of more months before I do.

Jimmie


I think the only thing I don't like about PEX is the connector process. PEX
may last 100 years, but the connectors won't. And even if they did, they
are horribly expensive.

Does anyone here make their own connectors? How much does it cost to do so?
Buying them individually is ridiculous, and is why I stuck with copper
yesterday.

On Tue, 09 Feb 2010 15:58:59 -0600, Zootal
wrote:

I think the only thing I don't like about PEX is the connector process. PEX
may last 100 years, but the connectors won't. And even if they did, they
are horribly expensive.


A crimp ring may cost me $.20 each. (Vanex) PEX connectors for my
system are not "horribly expensive". The sharkbite mentioned are
costly, but not necessary in a PEX systems or repair.

True, connectors are found out to be bad. To much Zinc, when making
the brass caused many law suits, from failure. That is water under the
bridge.

Does anyone here make their own connectors? How much does it cost to do so?
Buying them individually is ridiculous, and is why I stuck with copper
yesterday.

How many copper pieces did you buy? I can make a PEX repair with less
parts, connections and have less chance of leaks....

Use the new expanding connectors without crimp rings, saves money.

On Feb 9, 4:58*pm, Zootal wrote:

I think the only thing I don't like about PEX is the connector process. PEX
may last 100 years, but the connectors won't. And even if they did, they
are horribly expensive.

Does anyone here make their own connectors? How much does it cost to do so?
Buying them individually is ridiculous, and is why I stuck with copper
yesterday.

Make your own connectors? Huh? Why? I'm not sure what connectors
you were pricing, and where you got the prices from, but, what?, a
buck and a half a connection (if you buy only a few at a time) is
'horribly expensive'?

There are also a number of different PEX joining methods, and there
are different crimping tools. I bought a crimping tool on eBay, with
50 each of 1/2" and 3/4" crimp rings, for $60 including shipping, and
the brass barbed fittings work out to about a buck a pop. There are
also a lot fewer fittings in a PEX installation as the pipe is so
flexible and you can snake it to pretty much anywhere.

It took me a long time to move from copper to PEX. There are some
differences in installation, and thermal expansion has to be taken
into account to a greater degree, but once I used the stuff, I didn't
really look back. I'll still use copper on some jobs, but it's kind
of lost it's, ahem, luster.

R

RicodJour wrote in
:

On Feb 9, 4:58*pm, Zootal wrote:

I think the only thing I don't like about PEX is the connector
process. P
EX
may last 100 years, but the connectors won't. And even if they did,
they are horribly expensive.

Does anyone here make their own connectors? How much does it cost to
do s
o?
Buying them individually is ridiculous, and is why I stuck with
copper yesterday.

Make your own connectors? Huh? Why? I'm not sure what connectors
you were pricing, and where you got the prices from, but, what?, a
buck and a half a connection (if you buy only a few at a time) is
'horribly expensive'?

The only 3/4 barrel connectors I found were about 7 bucks. The equivalent
copper was, what, thirty cents? The others for the 1/2 stuff were $3 to $6.
Maybe there are less expensive sources for connectors? The job I'm doing
now requires roughly 15 or so bends and tees, and maybe 12 straight
connectors. There are a couple of places where I can bend the copper (or
PEX) and avoid the usage of an elbow or two.

On Feb 9, 5:44*pm, Zootal wrote:
RicodJour wrote :



On Feb 9, 4:58*pm, Zootal wrote:

I think the only thing I don't like about PEX is the connector
process. P
EX
may last 100 years, but the connectors won't. And even if they did,
they are horribly expensive.

Does anyone here make their own connectors? How much does it cost to
do s
o?
Buying them individually is ridiculous, and is why I stuck with
copper yesterday.

Make your own connectors? *Huh? *Why? *I'm not sure what connectors
you were pricing, and where you got the prices from, but, what?, a
buck and a half a connection (if you buy only a few at a time) is
'horribly expensive'?

The only 3/4 barrel connectors I found were about 7 bucks. The equivalent
copper was, what, thirty cents? The others for the 1/2 stuff were $3 to $6.
Maybe there are less expensive sources for connectors? The job I'm doing
now requires roughly 15 or so bends and tees, and maybe 12 straight
connectors. There are a couple of places where I can bend the copper (or
PEX) and avoid the usage of an elbow or two.

Oh, it seems you were pricing Sharkbite fittings, and, yes, they are
substantially more expensive. For small jobs and repairs, they're
definitely worth it, but for bigger jobs it adds up, and that's where
the much cheaper crimp ring/barbed fitting comes in.

Water distribution with PEX, at least in new construction, or a
complete repiping, is closer to electrical distribution from a panel
board, than the typical water distribution setup. In a PEX manifold
system there's usually only the connection at the manifold and another
at the stubout to the fixture - the lines are all homeruns.

There's a really good PEX manual online - 50 or 100 pages or something
like that - and it covers everything. Download it and check it out.
It's worth the read if you're doing your own plumbing, or planning
some work.

R

On Tue, 9 Feb 2010 13:08:06 -0800 (PST), JIMMIE
wrote:

PEX has a plastic memory - it returns to shape. *No other plumbing
material that I'm aware of has that. *It's what makes it so much more
freeze-proof than other piping.

R

Ive had a temporary PEX line freeze several times this winter. Its
about a 30ft line running out to the kennel that I set up just before
the first freeze. I didnt get a chance to bury it and it looks like it
may be a couple of more months before I do.

Jimmie

So I take it, the pipe didn't burst.

Here is a good ground solution:

http://www.gtglobeindustries.com/ima...thermoflex.jpg

On Feb 9, 4:44*pm, Zootal wrote:
RicodJour wrote :





On Feb 9, 4:58*pm, Zootal wrote:

I think the only thing I don't like about PEX is the connector
process. P
EX
may last 100 years, but the connectors won't. And even if they did,
they are horribly expensive.

Does anyone here make their own connectors? How much does it cost to
do s
o?
Buying them individually is ridiculous, and is why I stuck with
copper yesterday.

Make your own connectors? *Huh? *Why? *I'm not sure what connectors
you were pricing, and where you got the prices from, but, what?, a
buck and a half a connection (if you buy only a few at a time) is
'horribly expensive'?

The only 3/4 barrel connectors I found were about 7 bucks. The equivalent
copper was, what, thirty cents? The others for the 1/2 stuff were $3 to $6.
Maybe there are less expensive sources for connectors? The job I'm doing
now requires roughly 15 or so bends and tees, and maybe 12 straight
connectors. There are a couple of places where I can bend the copper (or
PEX) and avoid the usage of an elbow or two.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

i had a tight space for putting in a shower valve, used pex quick
connects 2 to 4 bucks pricey but worth it no way to get a torch in
there , the reaming tool is exspensive but my dad already had one,
ummm.. can i borrow that

JIMMIE wrote:
On Feb 9, 2:23 pm, RicodJour wrote:
On Feb 9, 10:55 am, HerHusband wrote:



However, plastic pipe of any kind is not very good at resisting
physical stresses, like yanking on a tight valve, or dropping a
book on an exposed pipe.

I'll gladly hit PEX with a hammer and it won't affect it unless I try
to crush it entirely. Lesser blows would destroy any other piping,
metal or plastic, before the PEX showed lasting damage.

PEX has a plastic memory - it returns to shape. No other plumbing
material that I'm aware of has that. It's what makes it so much more
freeze-proof than other piping.

R

Ive had a temporary PEX line freeze several times this winter. Its
about a 30ft line running out to the kennel that I set up just before
the first freeze. I didnt get a chance to bury it and it looks like it
may be a couple of more months before I do.


The sun may have destroyed it by then.

On Feb 9, 8:17*pm, Oren wrote:
On Tue, 9 Feb 2010 13:08:06 -0800 (PST), JIMMIE

wrote:
PEX has a plastic memory - it returns to shape. *No other plumbing
material that I'm aware of has that. *It's what makes it so much more
freeze-proof than other piping.

R

Ive had a temporary PEX line freeze several times this winter. Its
about a 30ft line running out to the kennel that I set up just before
the first freeze. I didnt get a chance to bury it and it looks like it
may be a couple of more months before I do.

Jimmie

So I take it, the pipe didn't burst.

Here is a good ground solution:

http://www.gtglobeindustries.com/ima...thermoflex.jpg

Thats cool.My brother and I ran some1/2 in PVC through a PVC sewer
pipe like that several years back. The galvanized plumbing under the
slab in my dad's house had gone bad so we had to run it through the
attic. Even though we only needed about 15 ft to go from kitchen to
bathroom we extended the sewer pipe the length of the house. The idea
was that should it freeze the water would be allowed to drain outside.
Wish they had PEX back then.

Jimmie

Jimmie

On Feb 10, 12:37*am, "Bob F" wrote:
JIMMIE wrote:
On Feb 9, 2:23 pm, RicodJour wrote:
On Feb 9, 10:55 am, HerHusband wrote:

However, plastic pipe of any kind is not very good at resisting
physical stresses, like yanking on a tight valve, or dropping a
book on an exposed pipe.

I'll gladly hit PEX with a hammer and it won't affect it unless I try
to crush it entirely. Lesser blows would destroy any other piping,
metal or plastic, before the PEX showed lasting damage.

PEX has a plastic memory - it returns to shape. No other plumbing
material that I'm aware of has that. It's what makes it so much more
freeze-proof than other piping.

R

Ive had a temporary PEX line freeze several times this winter. Its
about a 30ft line running out to the kennel that I set up just before
the first freeze. I didnt get a chance to bury it and it looks like it
may be a couple of more months before I do.

The sun may have destroyed it by then.

Only been out about 5 weeks now

On Feb 9, 9:37*pm, "Bob F" wrote:
JIMMIE wrote:
On Feb 9, 2:23 pm, RicodJour wrote:
On Feb 9, 10:55 am, HerHusband wrote:

However, plastic pipe of any kind is not very good at resisting
physical stresses, like yanking on a tight valve, or dropping a
book on an exposed pipe.

I'll gladly hit PEX with a hammer and it won't affect it unless I try
to crush it entirely. Lesser blows would destroy any other piping,
metal or plastic, before the PEX showed lasting damage.

PEX has a plastic memory - it returns to shape. No other plumbing
material that I'm aware of has that. It's what makes it so much more
freeze-proof than other piping.

R

Ive had a temporary PEX line freeze several times this winter. Its
about a 30ft line running out to the kennel that I set up just before
the first freeze. I didnt get a chance to bury it and it looks like it
may be a couple of more months before I do.

The sun may have destroyed it by then.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Dunno about PEX and sun but PVC and sun seem to be okay. I have a
"temporary" PVC line from one hydrant to another that is inoperable -
about 65' total that has been in for .... well, years. The only
repairs I have had to do is replace a few spots that broke from
freezing when I forgot to drain it in time...hmmm....seems I did it
again last fall. Wonder how much will need replacing this time.

Harry K

On Feb 8, 12:49*pm, jamesgangnc wrote:
On Feb 8, 3:41*pm, Harry K wrote:





On Feb 8, 11:46*am, Zootal wrote:

jamesgangnc wrote :

On Feb 8, 2:22*pm, Zootal wrote:
Was the pipe in an outside wall and did it break due to freezing
temps? If so, copper can also break when water freezes in them.

It was in an inside wall. It broke because a book fell off of the
back of the toilet and hit the pipe where it came through the wall..

I certainly would not go thorugh the process of replacing a bunch of
cpvc because a piece was damaged from impact. *Sounds like you have
too much time on your hands. *How about coming over to my house and
I'll give you some better chores. haha, nothin personal :-)

I have to take the wall apart anyhow. If I'm going to all that trouble, I
might as well repalce the plastic while I'm in there.

What I'm mostly curious about is how often plastic actually breaks? I
personally think using plastic in places where it comes through the wall
for a shower head or valve is not a good idea - those are subject to stress
and in my uneducated opinion, they should be copper. Nice and strong metal.

And it's the plastic running through the basement that I'm most concerned
about. I'd hate to hit one with a 2x4 by accident and have it break. My
wood working area has pipes running along the ceiling directly above.

I have been following the CPVC/PEX/COPPER/GALV discussions sing the
days of DEJA news. *Don't ever recall any mentions of CPVC haveing a
problem with failures. *My redo in this old house was finished 20
years ago, all is CPVC and I haven't had a failure yet (knock on
wood).

Harry K- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yea I used to do copper but the cpvc is way easier to do. *I hated
doing copper in the crawl of our 2 story house. *It was such a pain to
get the water out so I could solder. *Seemed like everytime I starte
dto heat it up here would come just a little more water.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Just stuff a piece of bread in there. It disappears when the water is
turned back on.

Harry K

Harry K wrote:
On Feb 9, 9:37 pm, "Bob F" wrote:
JIMMIE wrote:
On Feb 9, 2:23 pm, RicodJour wrote:
On Feb 9, 10:55 am, HerHusband wrote:

However, plastic pipe of any kind is not very good at resisting
physical stresses, like yanking on a tight valve, or dropping a
book on an exposed pipe.

I'll gladly hit PEX with a hammer and it won't affect it unless I
try to crush it entirely. Lesser blows would destroy any other
piping, metal or plastic, before the PEX showed lasting damage.

PEX has a plastic memory - it returns to shape. No other plumbing
material that I'm aware of has that. It's what makes it so much
more freeze-proof than other piping.

R

Ive had a temporary PEX line freeze several times this winter. Its
about a 30ft line running out to the kennel that I set up just
before the first freeze. I didnt get a chance to bury it and it
looks like it may be a couple of more months before I do.

The sun may have destroyed it by then.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Dunno about PEX and sun but PVC and sun seem to be okay. I have a
"temporary" PVC line from one hydrant to another that is inoperable -
about 65' total that has been in for .... well, years. The only
repairs I have had to do is replace a few spots that broke from
freezing when I forgot to drain it in time...hmmm....seems I did it
again last fall. Wonder how much will need replacing this time.

Don't know if this will be readable - it was extracted from a pdf.
Can Zurn PEX be stored and/or installed outdoors?

No. All plastic pipes can break down when exposed to ultraviolet rays

(sunlight) unless they contain certain pigments or stabilizers intended to

prevent the damage. Exposure of unstabilized pipe to ultraviolet rays (UV)

causes the molecular structure to break down and oxidize causing the pipe

to become brittle and eventually rupture. Zurn PEX contains UV stabilizers

that are intended to protect it for 6 months of exposure, which is intended

for protection on the job site in case the project is delayed. Most other PEX

tubing has only 30-60 day protection. If it must be installed outside it must

be sheathed in a protective sleeve. Zurn PEX should not be stored outdoors.

On Feb 10, 8:23*am, "Bob F" wrote:
Harry K wrote:
On Feb 9, 9:37 pm, "Bob F" wrote:
JIMMIE wrote:
On Feb 9, 2:23 pm, RicodJour wrote:
On Feb 9, 10:55 am, HerHusband wrote:

However, plastic pipe of any kind is not very good at resisting
physical stresses, like yanking on a tight valve, or dropping a
book on an exposed pipe.

I'll gladly hit PEX with a hammer and it won't affect it unless I
try to crush it entirely. Lesser blows would destroy any other
piping, metal or plastic, before the PEX showed lasting damage.

PEX has a plastic memory - it returns to shape. No other plumbing
material that I'm aware of has that. It's what makes it so much
more freeze-proof than other piping.

R

Ive had a temporary PEX line freeze several times this winter. Its
about a 30ft line running out to the kennel that I set up just
before the first freeze. I didnt get a chance to bury it and it
looks like it may be a couple of more months before I do.

The sun may have destroyed it by then.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Dunno about PEX and sun but PVC and sun seem to be okay. *I have a
"temporary" PVC line from one hydrant to another that is inoperable -
about 65' total that has been in for .... well, years. *The only
repairs I have had to do is replace a few spots that broke from
freezing when I forgot to drain it in time...hmmm....seems I did it
again last fall. *Wonder how much will need replacing this time.

Don't know if this will be readable - it was extracted from a pdf.
Can Zurn PEX be stored and/or installed outdoors?

No. All plastic pipes can break down when exposed to ultraviolet rays

(sunlight) unless they contain certain pigments or stabilizers intended to

prevent the damage. Exposure of unstabilized pipe to ultraviolet rays (UV)

causes the molecular structure to break down and oxidize causing the pipe

to become brittle and eventually rupture. Zurn PEX contains UV stabilizers

that are intended to protect it for 6 months of exposure, which is intended

for protection on the job site in case the project is delayed. Most other PEX

tubing has only 30-60 day protection. If it must be installed outside it must

be sheathed in a protective sleeve. Zurn PEX should not be stored outdoors.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yeah to the 'brittle' That is what is happening to my 'temporary'
line. When it does freeze it isn't just a small spot but a long crack
now. Used to be just cut out a foot or so, now it is up to 10 ft at a
shot. Still serviceable and I still have a lot of used pipe in the
shed for repairs. Had it running all over back around 30 years ago to
water new tree seedlings.

Harry K

On Feb 11, 1:07*am, Harry K wrote:
On Feb 10, 8:23*am, "Bob F" wrote:



Harry K wrote:
On Feb 9, 9:37 pm, "Bob F" wrote:
JIMMIE wrote:
On Feb 9, 2:23 pm, RicodJour wrote:
On Feb 9, 10:55 am, HerHusband wrote:

However, plastic pipe of any kind is not very good at resisting
physical stresses, like yanking on a tight valve, or dropping a
book on an exposed pipe.

I'll gladly hit PEX with a hammer and it won't affect it unless I
try to crush it entirely. Lesser blows would destroy any other
piping, metal or plastic, before the PEX showed lasting damage.

PEX has a plastic memory - it returns to shape. No other plumbing
material that I'm aware of has that. It's what makes it so much
more freeze-proof than other piping.

R

Ive had a temporary PEX line freeze several times this winter. Its
about a 30ft line running out to the kennel that I set up just
before the first freeze. I didnt get a chance to bury it and it
looks like it may be a couple of more months before I do.

The sun may have destroyed it by then.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Dunno about PEX and sun but PVC and sun seem to be okay. *I have a
"temporary" PVC line from one hydrant to another that is inoperable -
about 65' total that has been in for .... well, years. *The only
repairs I have had to do is replace a few spots that broke from
freezing when I forgot to drain it in time...hmmm....seems I did it
again last fall. *Wonder how much will need replacing this time.

Don't know if this will be readable - it was extracted from a pdf.
Can Zurn PEX be stored and/or installed outdoors?

No. All plastic pipes can break down when exposed to ultraviolet rays

(sunlight) unless they contain certain pigments or stabilizers intended to

prevent the damage. Exposure of unstabilized pipe to ultraviolet rays (UV)

causes the molecular structure to break down and oxidize causing the pipe

to become brittle and eventually rupture. Zurn PEX contains UV stabilizers

that are intended to protect it for 6 months of exposure, which is intended

for protection on the job site in case the project is delayed. Most other PEX

tubing has only 30-60 day protection. If it must be installed outside it must

be sheathed in a protective sleeve. Zurn PEX should not be stored outdoors.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yeah to the 'brittle' *That is what is happening to my 'temporary'
line. *When it does freeze it isn't just a small spot but a long crack
now. *Used to be just cut out a foot or so, now it is up to 10 ft at a
shot. *Still serviceable and I still have a lot of used pipe in the
shed for repairs. *Had it running all over back around 30 years ago to
water new tree seedlings.

Harry K

Oh well, maybe I can get it in the ground in the next couple of weeks,
if not I will replace it when I can bury it if it hasnt cracked before
then.

Jimmie