I now plan to put a pretty big tv antennas in my attic.

1)I won't need an assistent for aiming because I have a co-ax splitter
in the attic, I'll bring a tv up, and I'll have RF remote control for
the DVDR tuner. So: Should I use a color tv, or is a (lighter) B&W
tv just as good?? The B&W is 12 and I think the color is 14 inch. (I
have no stairs, just a hatch in the closet)

2) The roof is not free-standing, but has trusses every 24 inches.
And those trusses include inverted W's, made by 2/4's. On each side
of the antenna, only two pieces of 2x4, more likely only one, are
likely to be in the way.

I'll bring the antenna up still folded, but because of the 2x4's, I
might want to unfold an element a little bit, remove it completely,
and reattach it in the fully unfolded position. Is that possible with
Winegard antennas, or any other brand? (I"m afraid they might be
riveted on, loose enough to open but not more than that.)

3) The truss 2x4's are all at oblibque angles and I can move the
antenna up and down and forward and back, so it's likely I can find a
spot where they all extend, and I'm sure this question is obvious, so
please excuse me, but which is better, an antenna with 36 elements but
where one was permanently removed in order to mount or aim the
antenna, or a smaller one one with 28 elements??? (Or 41 and 36)
IIUC, I might have removed an essential one, but I could probably
remove another for a station I don't receive, move the antenna, and
put the first one back, right??

4) Does it matter if I tighten the F-connector all the way to tight.
Usually, just touching the center wire to the center hole is enough to
get a good and strong picture, without even touching the outer nut to
anything. But with weak signals, like distant channels, does it
matter if the connection is tight?

Thanks.

On Dec 14, 4:30*pm, mm wrote:
I now plan to put a pretty big tv antennas in my attic. *

1)I won't need an assistent for aiming because I have a co-ax splitter
in the attic, I'll bring a tv up, and I'll have RF remote control for
the DVDR tuner. * So: Should I use a color tv, or is a (lighter) B&W
tv just as good?? *The B&W is 12 and I think the color is 14 inch. (I
have no stairs, just a hatch in the closet)

2) The roof is not free-standing, but has trusses every 24 inches.
And those trusses include inverted W's, made by 2/4's. *On each side
of the antenna, only two pieces of 2x4, more likely only one, are
likely to be in the way.

I'll bring the antenna up still folded, but because of the 2x4's, I
might want to unfold an element a little bit, remove it completely,
and reattach it in the fully unfolded position. *Is that possible with
Winegard antennas, or any other brand? *(I"m afraid they might be
riveted on, loose enough to open but not more than that.)

3) The truss 2x4's are all at oblibque angles and I can move the
antenna up and down and forward and back, so it's likely I can find a
spot where they all extend, and I'm sure this question is obvious, so
please excuse me, but which is better, an antenna with 36 elements but
where one was permanently removed in order to mount or aim the
antenna, or a smaller one one with 28 elements??? *(Or 41 and 36)
IIUC, I might have removed an essential one, but I could probably
remove another for a station I don't receive, move the antenna, and
put the first one back, right??

4) Does it matter if I tighten the F-connector all the way to tight.
Usually, just touching the center wire to the center hole is enough to
get a good and strong picture, without even touching the outer nut to
anything. *But with weak signals, like distant channels, does it
matter if the connection is tight?

Thanks.

1. Use the color set if you can as it will be more sensitive to
ghosting
2. Only trying it will tell if you can open it ok.
3. More elements are better, but usually the more elements, the
longer the longest element will be, and you don't need that for DTV
signals as the lowest frequencies, which correspond to the longest
elements, are no longer in use. ALso more elements will be much
harder to open thru your trusses. So, try the smaller number of
elements.
4. Tighten the connector at least to the point of as hard as you can
using your hands. I would then give it a little more pressure using
a small pair of pliers. That way you won't have to crawl back inot
the attic to tighten it again the first time temperature changes.

mm wrote:
I now plan to put a pretty big tv antennas in my attic.

1)I won't need an assistent for aiming because I have a co-ax splitter
in the attic, I'll bring a tv up, and I'll have RF remote control for
the DVDR tuner. So: Should I use a color tv, or is a (lighter) B&W
tv just as good?? The B&W is 12 and I think the color is 14 inch. (I
have no stairs, just a hatch in the closet)

2) The roof is not free-standing, but has trusses every 24 inches.
And those trusses include inverted W's, made by 2/4's. On each side
of the antenna, only two pieces of 2x4, more likely only one, are
likely to be in the way.

I'll bring the antenna up still folded, but because of the 2x4's, I
might want to unfold an element a little bit, remove it completely,
and reattach it in the fully unfolded position. Is that possible with
Winegard antennas, or any other brand? (I"m afraid they might be
riveted on, loose enough to open but not more than that.)

3) The truss 2x4's are all at oblibque angles and I can move the
antenna up and down and forward and back, so it's likely I can find a
spot where they all extend, and I'm sure this question is obvious, so
please excuse me, but which is better, an antenna with 36 elements but
where one was permanently removed in order to mount or aim the
antenna, or a smaller one one with 28 elements??? (Or 41 and 36)
IIUC, I might have removed an essential one, but I could probably
remove another for a station I don't receive, move the antenna, and
put the first one back, right??

4) Does it matter if I tighten the F-connector all the way to tight.
Usually, just touching the center wire to the center hole is enough to
get a good and strong picture, without even touching the outer nut to
anything. But with weak signals, like distant channels, does it
matter if the connection is tight?


If you have a helper, and you each have cell phones (or can yell really
loud), you need not take the TV to the attic.

hr(bob) wrote:
On Dec 14, 4:30 pm, wrote:
I now plan to put a pretty big tv antennas in my attic.

1)I won't need an assistent for aiming because I have a co-ax splitter
in the attic, I'll bring a tv up, and I'll have RF remote control for
the DVDR tuner. So: Should I use a color tv, or is a (lighter) B&W
tv just as good?? The B&W is 12 and I think the color is 14 inch. (I
have no stairs, just a hatch in the closet)

2) The roof is not free-standing, but has trusses every 24 inches.
And those trusses include inverted W's, made by 2/4's. On each side
of the antenna, only two pieces of 2x4, more likely only one, are
likely to be in the way.

I'll bring the antenna up still folded, but because of the 2x4's, I
might want to unfold an element a little bit, remove it completely,
and reattach it in the fully unfolded position. Is that possible with
Winegard antennas, or any other brand? (I"m afraid they might be
riveted on, loose enough to open but not more than that.)

3) The truss 2x4's are all at oblibque angles and I can move the
antenna up and down and forward and back, so it's likely I can find a
spot where they all extend, and I'm sure this question is obvious, so
please excuse me, but which is better, an antenna with 36 elements but
where one was permanently removed in order to mount or aim the
antenna, or a smaller one one with 28 elements??? (Or 41 and 36)
IIUC, I might have removed an essential one, but I could probably
remove another for a station I don't receive, move the antenna, and
put the first one back, right??

4) Does it matter if I tighten the F-connector all the way to tight.
Usually, just touching the center wire to the center hole is enough to
get a good and strong picture, without even touching the outer nut to
anything. But with weak signals, like distant channels, does it
matter if the connection is tight?

Thanks.

1. Use the color set if you can as it will be more sensitive to
ghosting
2. Only trying it will tell if you can open it ok.
3. More elements are better, but usually the more elements, the
longer the longest element will be, and you don't need that for DTV
signals as the lowest frequencies, which correspond to the longest
elements, are no longer in use. ALso more elements will be much
harder to open thru your trusses. So, try the smaller number of
elements.
4. Tighten the connector at least to the point of as hard as you can
using your hands. I would then give it a little more pressure using
a small pair of pliers. That way you won't have to crawl back inot
the attic to tighten it again the first time temperature changes.

Hi,
More number of elements mean sharper angle of beam which is more
directional and higher gain. Will need more precise pointing.

HeyBub wrote:
mm wrote:
I now plan to put a pretty big tv antennas in my attic.

1)I won't need an assistent for aiming because I have a co-ax splitter
in the attic, I'll bring a tv up, and I'll have RF remote control for
the DVDR tuner. So: Should I use a color tv, or is a (lighter) B&W
tv just as good?? The B&W is 12 and I think the color is 14 inch. (I
have no stairs, just a hatch in the closet)

2) The roof is not free-standing, but has trusses every 24 inches.
And those trusses include inverted W's, made by 2/4's. On each side
of the antenna, only two pieces of 2x4, more likely only one, are
likely to be in the way.

I'll bring the antenna up still folded, but because of the 2x4's, I
might want to unfold an element a little bit, remove it completely,
and reattach it in the fully unfolded position. Is that possible with
Winegard antennas, or any other brand? (I"m afraid they might be
riveted on, loose enough to open but not more than that.)

3) The truss 2x4's are all at oblibque angles and I can move the
antenna up and down and forward and back, so it's likely I can find a
spot where they all extend, and I'm sure this question is obvious, so
please excuse me, but which is better, an antenna with 36 elements but
where one was permanently removed in order to mount or aim the
antenna, or a smaller one one with 28 elements??? (Or 41 and 36)
IIUC, I might have removed an essential one, but I could probably
remove another for a station I don't receive, move the antenna, and
put the first one back, right??

4) Does it matter if I tighten the F-connector all the way to tight.
Usually, just touching the center wire to the center hole is enough to
get a good and strong picture, without even touching the outer nut to
anything. But with weak signals, like distant channels, does it
matter if the connection is tight?


If you have a helper, and you each have cell phones (or can yell really
loud), you need not take the TV to the attic.


Hi,
Or Walkie talkie.

hr(bob) wrote:

1. Use the color set if you can as it will be more sensitive to
ghosting

Ghosts and snow don't exist with digital TV. You either have a signal
or you don't. To best aim the antenna you will need a signal strength
meter. Some TVs and converter boxes have them.

mm wrote:
I now plan to put a pretty big tv antennas in my attic.

1)I won't need an assistent for aiming because I have a co-ax splitter
in the attic, I'll bring a tv up, and I'll have RF remote control for
the DVDR tuner. So: Should I use a color tv, or is a (lighter) B&W
tv just as good?? The B&W is 12 and I think the color is 14 inch. (I
have no stairs, just a hatch in the closet)

2) The roof is not free-standing, but has trusses every 24 inches.
And those trusses include inverted W's, made by 2/4's. On each side
of the antenna, only two pieces of 2x4, more likely only one, are
likely to be in the way.

I'll bring the antenna up still folded, but because of the 2x4's, I
might want to unfold an element a little bit, remove it completely,
and reattach it in the fully unfolded position. Is that possible with
Winegard antennas

I can't help you with your questions but for what it's worth, I do know
Randy Winegard of Winegard Antennas in Burlington, IA.

Don

On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 00:02:35 -0600, IGot2P wrote:

mm wrote:
I now plan to put a pretty big tv antennas in my attic.

1)I won't need an assistent for aiming because I have a co-ax splitter
in the attic, I'll bring a tv up, and I'll have RF remote control for
the DVDR tuner. So: Should I use a color tv, or is a (lighter) B&W
tv just as good?? The B&W is 12 and I think the color is 14 inch. (I
have no stairs, just a hatch in the closet)

2) The roof is not free-standing, but has trusses every 24 inches.
And those trusses include inverted W's, made by 2/4's. On each side
of the antenna, only two pieces of 2x4, more likely only one, are
likely to be in the way.

I'll bring the antenna up still folded, but because of the 2x4's, I
might want to unfold an element a little bit, remove it completely,
and reattach it in the fully unfolded position. Is that possible with
Winegard antennas

I can't help you with your questions but for what it's worth, I do know
Randy Winegard of Winegard Antennas in Burlington, IA.

Tell him I said Hello!

Don

On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 05:06:16 -0500, mm
wrote:

On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 00:02:35 -0600, IGot2P wrote:

mm wrote:
I now plan to put a pretty big tv antennas in my attic.

1)I won't need an assistent for aiming because I have a co-ax splitter
in the attic, I'll bring a tv up, and I'll have RF remote control for
the DVDR tuner. So: Should I use a color tv, or is a (lighter) B&W
tv just as good?? The B&W is 12 and I think the color is 14 inch. (I
have no stairs, just a hatch in the closet)

2) The roof is not free-standing, but has trusses every 24 inches.
And those trusses include inverted W's, made by 2/4's. On each side
of the antenna, only two pieces of 2x4, more likely only one, are
likely to be in the way.

I'll bring the antenna up still folded, but because of the 2x4's, I
might want to unfold an element a little bit, remove it completely,
and reattach it in the fully unfolded position. Is that possible with
Winegard antennas

I can't help you with your questions but for what it's worth, I do know
Randy Winegard of Winegard Antennas in Burlington, IA.

Tell him I said Hello!

Don

And ask him when I can call him for answers to my antenna questions.

On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 05:13:26 -0500, mm
wrote:

On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 05:06:16 -0500, mm
wrote:

On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 00:02:35 -0600, IGot2P wrote:

mm wrote:
I now plan to put a pretty big tv antennas in my attic.

1)I won't need an assistent for aiming because I have a co-ax splitter
in the attic, I'll bring a tv up, and I'll have RF remote control for
the DVDR tuner. So: Should I use a color tv, or is a (lighter) B&W
tv just as good?? The B&W is 12 and I think the color is 14 inch. (I
have no stairs, just a hatch in the closet)

2) The roof is not free-standing, but has trusses every 24 inches.
And those trusses include inverted W's, made by 2/4's. On each side
of the antenna, only two pieces of 2x4, more likely only one, are
likely to be in the way.

I'll bring the antenna up still folded, but because of the 2x4's, I
might want to unfold an element a little bit, remove it completely,
and reattach it in the fully unfolded position. Is that possible with
Winegard antennas

I can't help you with your questions but for what it's worth, I do know
Randy Winegard of Winegard Antennas in Burlington, IA.

Tell him I said Hello!

Don

And ask him when I can call him for answers to my antenna questions.

And tell him it has to be before the weekend. I haven't got all day.

I don't know where you live, but if your stations come from the same
transmitter, point the antenna to that general area first, then have a
friend tell you with a phone or with his voice what is the sweet spot.
As the other poster said, most TV's and converter boxes have a
strength meter in their menu.
What kind of antenna do you have?

On Dec 14, 10:46*pm, Bob wrote:
hr(bob) wrote:
1. *Use the color set if you can as it will be more sensitive to
ghosting

Ghosts and snow don't exist with digital TV. *You either have a signal
or you don't. *To best aim the antenna you will need a signal strength
meter. *Some TVs and converter boxes have them.

Agreed, I should have said the color set might be more susceptible to
multipath reflections.

On Mon, 14 Dec 2009 20:46:25 -0800, Bob wrote:

hr(bob) wrote:

1. Use the color set if you can as it will be more sensitive to
ghosting

Ghosts and snow don't exist with digital TV. You either have a signal
or you don't.

No snow or ghosts, but that last thing is NOT true. Maybe you've never
experienced a variable (and SOMETIMES adequate) signal. The picture
becomes a mess of oversize pixels and the audio turns into
"bip....bup....bop......" (erratic semi-vocal noises).

To best aim the antenna you will need a signal strength
meter. Some TVs and converter boxes have them.

Yes, and I hope you don't have to waste too much time fighting the
timeouts.
--
10 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us

"How could you ask me to believe in God when there's
absolutely no evidence that I can see?" -- Jodie Foster

On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 19:20:10 -0600, Mark Lloyd
wrote:

On Mon, 14 Dec 2009 20:46:25 -0800, Bob wrote:

hr(bob) wrote:

1. Use the color set if you can as it will be more sensitive to
ghosting

Ghosts and snow don't exist with digital TV. You either have a signal
or you don't.

No snow or ghosts, but that last thing is NOT true. Maybe you've never
experienced a variable (and SOMETIMES adequate) signal. The picture
becomes a mess of oversize pixels and the audio turns into
"bip....bup....bop......" (erratic semi-vocal noises).

I havne't gotten any noises, but I've certainly gotten checkerboards.

Why do the "authorities" continue to say that the picture is always
good? Don't they ever watch weak stations?

I haven't gotten noises but I get interruptions in picture and sound.

In fact every time I turn one of those transformer-base lamps on OR
off, the sound stops for a split second, and I think the
wall-switch/ceiling fixture does the same thing. I find this quite
amazing.

To best aim the antenna you will need a signal strength
meter. Some TVs and converter boxes have them.

My converter box has that, but it means moving the box around and
plugging the power supply. I'll probably just use the DVDR which
doesn't have it, but as long as I can see which channels work, that
should be enough. (If not, I can do it the other way next.) I see
that I didn't mention this, but all 10 DC stations, of which I now
only get 2, are within 4 degrees of each other, and I think within 10
degrees of the direction of the trusses in my attic. I think there
will be room to turn the antenna 10 degrees, especially if I move the
the mini-mast I'll be hanging from the 2x4 I put between 2 adjacent
trusses.

It may take a lot of spatial imagination. Supposedly I'm good at that,
so that part of it should be fun. Unless it takes too long.

Yes, and I hope you don't have to waste too much time fighting the
timeouts.

Thank you.

On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 03:43:28 -0800 (PST), Mikepier
wrote:


I don't know where you live, but if your stations come from the same
transmitter, point the antenna to that general area first, then have a
friend tell you with a phone or with his voice what is the sweet spot.
As the other poster said, most TV's and converter boxes have a
strength meter in their menu.
What kind of antenna do you have?

Thanks.

I haven't got it yet. The questions were meant to help me choose
which one.

I think it will be either a Winegard HD7694P, 5P, or 6P.

Bear in mind that range is really dependent on loads of things.

HD7694P
Active Elements: 28
UHF Elements: 17
VHF Elements: 11
Estimated Range: 30 miles VHF & 25 miles UHF
Boom Length: 65"
Turning Radius 43"
Vertical Height: ???
Shipping Weight 7 lbs.

HD7695P
Active Elements: 36
UHF Elements: 23
VHF Elements: 19
Estimated Range: 40 miles VHF & 30 miles UHF
Boom Length: 90.25"
Turning Radius 61"
Vertical Height: 19.5"
Shipping Weight 9.5 lbs.

HD7696P
Active Elements: 41
UHF Elements: 26
VHF Elements: 15
Estimated Range: 50 miles VHF & 40 miles UHF
Boom Length: 110.75"
Turning Radius 70.6"
Vertical Height: ???
Shipping Weight 10.8 lbs.

All have:
Maximum Width: 36"
Element Diameter: 3/8"

4P has a height a little below 20 inches
and 6P a little more than 20 inches.

mm wrote:

Why do the "authorities" continue to say that the picture is always
good? Don't they ever watch weak stations?

I haven't gotten noises but I get interruptions in picture and sound.

In fact every time I turn one of those transformer-base lamps on OR
off, the sound stops for a split second, and I think the
wall-switch/ceiling fixture does the same thing. I find this quite
amazing.

You're experiencing what occurs when external interference degrades the
TV signal to a point below the acceptable threshold. With an analog
signal there would have most likely been a pop on the picture or sound,
but would not lose the signal completely. Proper antenna positioning
can minimize or eliminate the interference and also better assure a good
signal in various weather conditions.

mm wrote:
I now plan to put a pretty big tv antennas in my attic.

1)I won't need an assistent for aiming because I have a co-ax splitter
in the attic, I'll bring a tv up, and I'll have RF remote control for
the DVDR tuner. So: Should I use a color tv, or is a (lighter) B&W
tv just as good?? The B&W is 12 and I think the color is 14 inch. (I
have no stairs, just a hatch in the closet)

2) The roof is not free-standing, but has trusses every 24 inches.
And those trusses include inverted W's, made by 2/4's. On each side
of the antenna, only two pieces of 2x4, more likely only one, are
likely to be in the way.

I'll bring the antenna up still folded, but because of the 2x4's, I
might want to unfold an element a little bit, remove it completely,
and reattach it in the fully unfolded position. Is that possible with
Winegard antennas, or any other brand? (I"m afraid they might be
riveted on, loose enough to open but not more than that.)

3) The truss 2x4's are all at oblibque angles and I can move the
antenna up and down and forward and back, so it's likely I can find a
spot where they all extend, and I'm sure this question is obvious, so
please excuse me, but which is better, an antenna with 36 elements but
where one was permanently removed in order to mount or aim the
antenna, or a smaller one one with 28 elements??? (Or 41 and 36)
IIUC, I might have removed an essential one, but I could probably
remove another for a station I don't receive, move the antenna, and
put the first one back, right??

4) Does it matter if I tighten the F-connector all the way to tight.
Usually, just touching the center wire to the center hole is enough to
get a good and strong picture, without even touching the outer nut to
anything. But with weak signals, like distant channels, does it
matter if the connection is tight?

First of all I hope you aren't replacing an analog antenna with a new
"Digital" one. The truth is that there is practically no difference.
If you have the style with wide elements on the far end and they get
smaller the closer it gets to the middle, then the only difference is
that if you wanted to you could break off a few of the widest ones.
Those frequencies aren't used for TV anymore. That's it. That is the
only difference between digital and analog antenna.

The whole idea of opening up an antenna up there doesn't sound like
anything I'd like to try. Most likely the elements will snap into place
and you sometimes need pliers to squeeze the clip before you can fold it
in again.

Also with a person in the attic, your reception will likely change. So
you have to come down each time when you think you are close. Even
people in the next floor below the attic can effect the signal. Most of
it depends on how strong your signal is.

Definitely tighten up the connectors, and use the largest color TV you
have for testing. If you had an antenna, start with the new one
pointing the same direction.

On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 23:57:00 -0500, Tony
wrote:

mm wrote:
I now plan to put a pretty big tv antennas in my attic.

1)I won't need an assistent for aiming because I have a co-ax splitter
in the attic, I'll bring a tv up, and I'll have RF remote control for
the DVDR tuner. So: Should I use a color tv, or is a (lighter) B&W
tv just as good?? The B&W is 12 and I think the color is 14 inch. (I
have no stairs, just a hatch in the closet)

2) The roof is not free-standing, but has trusses every 24 inches.
And those trusses include inverted W's, made by 2/4's. On each side
of the antenna, only two pieces of 2x4, more likely only one, are
likely to be in the way.

I'll bring the antenna up still folded, but because of the 2x4's, I
might want to unfold an element a little bit, remove it completely,
and reattach it in the fully unfolded position. Is that possible with
Winegard antennas, or any other brand? (I"m afraid they might be
riveted on, loose enough to open but not more than that.)

3) The truss 2x4's are all at oblibque angles and I can move the
antenna up and down and forward and back, so it's likely I can find a
spot where they all extend, and I'm sure this question is obvious, so
please excuse me, but which is better, an antenna with 36 elements but
where one was permanently removed in order to mount or aim the
antenna, or a smaller one one with 28 elements??? (Or 41 and 36)
IIUC, I might have removed an essential one, but I could probably
remove another for a station I don't receive, move the antenna, and
put the first one back, right??

4) Does it matter if I tighten the F-connector all the way to tight.
Usually, just touching the center wire to the center hole is enough to
get a good and strong picture, without even touching the outer nut to
anything. But with weak signals, like distant channels, does it
matter if the connection is tight?

First of all I hope you aren't replacing an analog antenna with a new
"Digital" one.

Well of course. But I'm also replacing a 15" diameter, flying saucer
with rod wings amplified antenna whose amplifier seems to have broken
a year ago**, with a 6 to 10 foot long channel 7 to 69 outdoor
antenna, in my attic. (Yes, I know they don't use channels above
51?, anymore, but that's how Winegard labels the antennas.

**Actually I had two identical Radio Shack amplified antennas and
together they lasted about 24 years. They both seemed to break, in
that each stoppped working. Other than verifying that the adpater
still worked, I didn't any time hunting for a a solvable problem with
the first one. I just bought another one, and it worked. Although
what is strange is that the voltage is 12 volts on the second floor
but only 8 or 9 in the attic, while disconnected from the antenna. It
should be the same, right? Yet if the center wire in the co-ax were
broken, it would probably be zero.

The truth is that there is practically no difference.

I certainly know that. Right now I'm using a single strand wire about
7 feet long that I plug into the hole in the co-ax Antenna In
connector on the back of the DVDR/digital tuner. And I hang it across
an radio cabinet from the 30's.

It does very well, since I'm in Baltimore, getting channels in DC,
7.1, 7.2 and 66.1-4 and sometimes channel 9!, which tvfool.com says I
need an attic antenna to get. And this is just a wire. But there are
still 8 channels (not counting any .2 or .3 there might be) that I
can't get in DC, and I'm hoping to get most of them.

If you have the style with wide elements on the far end and they get
smaller the closer it gets to the middle, then the only difference is
that if you wanted to you could break off a few of the widest ones.
Those frequencies aren't used for TV anymore. That's it. That is the

Well, I wasn't going to buy an antenna designed for channels 2 to 6.
I presume that's the ones you mean.

BTW, you're not quite right. IIRC there are 40 stations nationwide
using low VHF. In fact 3 of them are around here but distant enough
that tvfool.com says I have very little chance of getting them even
with a very big antenna designed for low VHF. Plus I"m in a little
valley. I asked here about using a GPS to find out my altitude
compared to the main street a quarter mile from here which runs along
the crest of a small hill, while I'm right next to a small stream at
the bottom of the hill. With the hill between me and DC. tvfool
indicated that I would neeed a 50 foot tall antenna to get more
stations than an attic antenna would get me, and 50 feet is just too
much for me, to get a couple more stations.

only difference between digital and analog antenna.

The whole idea of opening up an antenna up there doesn't sound like
anything I'd like to try. Most likely the elements will snap into place
and you sometimes need pliers to squeeze the clip before you can fold it
in again.

I didn't even ask about that. I assumed I'd be able to get them folded
again. I can use pliers.

Also with a person in the attic, your reception will likely change. So
you have to come down each time when you think you are close. Even
people in the next floor below the attic can effect the signal. Most of
it depends on how strong your signal is.

Definitely tighten up the connectors, and use the largest color TV you
have for testing. If you had an antenna, start with the new one
pointing the same direction.

Good point. I think it faces the same direction. Although it is much
smaller and could easily point any direction, I also pointed it to DC
because those where the stations i wanted.

On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 20:34:43 -0800, Bob wrote:

mm wrote:

Why do the "authorities" continue to say that the picture is always
good? Don't they ever watch weak stations?

I haven't gotten noises but I get interruptions in picture and sound.

In fact every time I turn one of those transformer-base lamps on OR
off, the sound stops for a split second, and I think the
wall-switch/ceiling fixture does the same thing. I find this quite
amazing.

You're experiencing what occurs when external interference degrades the
TV signal to a point below the acceptable threshold. With an analog
signal there would have most likely been a pop on the picture or sound,

I don't I had that, and I have the same lamps etc., but the stations
were probably stronger before the changeover. I think currently this
happens even on local network stations, the strongest signals I get.

but would not lose the signal completely. Proper antenna positioning
can minimize or eliminate the interference and also better assure a good
signal in various weather conditions.

I'm hoping it will be very good.

On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 22:47:55 -0500, mm
wrote:

On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 19:20:10 -0600, Mark Lloyd
wrote:

On Mon, 14 Dec 2009 20:46:25 -0800, Bob wrote:

hr(bob) wrote:

1. Use the color set if you can as it will be more sensitive to
ghosting

Ghosts and snow don't exist with digital TV. You either have a signal
or you don't.

No snow or ghosts, but that last thing is NOT true. Maybe you've never
experienced a variable (and SOMETIMES adequate) signal. The picture
becomes a mess of oversize pixels and the audio turns into
"bip....bup....bop......" (erratic semi-vocal noises).

I havne't gotten any noises, but I've certainly gotten checkerboards.


The noises are actually parts of words, when the signal doesn't stay
on long enough for a whole word.

Why do the "authorities" continue to say that the picture is always
good? Don't they ever watch weak stations?

[snip]

Yes, and I hope you don't have to waste too much time fighting the
timeouts.

Thank you.
--
10 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us

"How could you ask me to believe in God when there's
absolutely no evidence that I can see?" -- Jodie Foster

mm wrote:
On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 23:57:00 -0500, Tony
wrote:

mm wrote:
I now plan to put a pretty big tv antennas in my attic.

1)I won't need an assistent for aiming because I have a co-ax splitter
in the attic, I'll bring a tv up, and I'll have RF remote control for
the DVDR tuner. So: Should I use a color tv, or is a (lighter) B&W
tv just as good?? The B&W is 12 and I think the color is 14 inch. (I
have no stairs, just a hatch in the closet)

2) The roof is not free-standing, but has trusses every 24 inches.
And those trusses include inverted W's, made by 2/4's. On each side
of the antenna, only two pieces of 2x4, more likely only one, are
likely to be in the way.

I'll bring the antenna up still folded, but because of the 2x4's, I
might want to unfold an element a little bit, remove it completely,
and reattach it in the fully unfolded position. Is that possible with
Winegard antennas, or any other brand? (I"m afraid they might be
riveted on, loose enough to open but not more than that.)

3) The truss 2x4's are all at oblibque angles and I can move the
antenna up and down and forward and back, so it's likely I can find a
spot where they all extend, and I'm sure this question is obvious, so
please excuse me, but which is better, an antenna with 36 elements but
where one was permanently removed in order to mount or aim the
antenna, or a smaller one one with 28 elements??? (Or 41 and 36)
IIUC, I might have removed an essential one, but I could probably
remove another for a station I don't receive, move the antenna, and
put the first one back, right??

4) Does it matter if I tighten the F-connector all the way to tight.
Usually, just touching the center wire to the center hole is enough to
get a good and strong picture, without even touching the outer nut to
anything. But with weak signals, like distant channels, does it
matter if the connection is tight?
First of all I hope you aren't replacing an analog antenna with a new
"Digital" one.

Well of course. But I'm also replacing a 15" diameter, flying saucer
with rod wings amplified antenna whose amplifier seems to have broken
a year ago**, with a 6 to 10 foot long channel 7 to 69 outdoor
antenna, in my attic. (Yes, I know they don't use channels above
51?, anymore, but that's how Winegard labels the antennas.

**Actually I had two identical Radio Shack amplified antennas and
together they lasted about 24 years. They both seemed to break, in
that each stoppped working. Other than verifying that the adpater
still worked, I didn't any time hunting for a a solvable problem with
the first one. I just bought another one, and it worked. Although
what is strange is that the voltage is 12 volts on the second floor
but only 8 or 9 in the attic, while disconnected from the antenna. It
should be the same, right? Yet if the center wire in the co-ax were
broken, it would probably be zero.

The truth is that there is practically no difference.

I certainly know that. Right now I'm using a single strand wire about
7 feet long that I plug into the hole in the co-ax Antenna In
connector on the back of the DVDR/digital tuner. And I hang it across
an radio cabinet from the 30's.

It does very well, since I'm in Baltimore, getting channels in DC,
7.1, 7.2 and 66.1-4 and sometimes channel 9!, which tvfool.com says I
need an attic antenna to get. And this is just a wire. But there are
still 8 channels (not counting any .2 or .3 there might be) that I
can't get in DC, and I'm hoping to get most of them.

If you have the style with wide elements on the far end and they get
smaller the closer it gets to the middle, then the only difference is
that if you wanted to you could break off a few of the widest ones.
Those frequencies aren't used for TV anymore. That's it. That is the

Well, I wasn't going to buy an antenna designed for channels 2 to 6.
I presume that's the ones you mean.

BTW, you're not quite right. IIRC there are 40 stations nationwide
using low VHF. In fact 3 of them are around here but distant enough
that tvfool.com says I have very little chance of getting them even
with a very big antenna designed for low VHF. Plus I"m in a little
valley. I asked here about using a GPS to find out my altitude
compared to the main street a quarter mile from here which runs along
the crest of a small hill, while I'm right next to a small stream at
the bottom of the hill. With the hill between me and DC. tvfool
indicated that I would neeed a 50 foot tall antenna to get more
stations than an attic antenna would get me, and 50 feet is just too
much for me, to get a couple more stations.

only difference between digital and analog antenna.

The whole idea of opening up an antenna up there doesn't sound like
anything I'd like to try. Most likely the elements will snap into place
and you sometimes need pliers to squeeze the clip before you can fold it
in again.

I didn't even ask about that. I assumed I'd be able to get them folded
again. I can use pliers.
Also with a person in the attic, your reception will likely change. So
you have to come down each time when you think you are close. Even
people in the next floor below the attic can effect the signal. Most of
it depends on how strong your signal is.

Definitely tighten up the connectors, and use the largest color TV you
have for testing. If you had an antenna, start with the new one
pointing the same direction.

Good point. I think it faces the same direction. Although it is much
smaller and could easily point any direction, I also pointed it to DC
because those where the stations i wanted.

OK, you are in a much better reception area than me. My antenna is
about 9 feet long. Whole different story!

On Wed, 16 Dec 2009 10:42:52 -0500, Tony
wrote:


OK, you are in a much better reception area than me. My antenna is
about 9 feet long. Whole different story!

Absolutely.

On Dec 16, 12:16*pm, mm wrote:
On Wed, 16 Dec 2009 10:42:52 -0500, Tony
wrote:



OK, you are in a much better reception area than me. *My antenna is
about 9 feet long. *Whole different story!

Absolutely.

Your antenna would work about 3 times better outside on a pole than in
your attic.

mm wrote:
On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 19:20:10 -0600, Mark Lloyd
wrote:

On Mon, 14 Dec 2009 20:46:25 -0800, Bob wrote:

hr(bob) wrote:

1. Use the color set if you can as it will be more sensitive to
ghosting
Ghosts and snow don't exist with digital TV. You either have a signal
or you don't.
No snow or ghosts, but that last thing is NOT true. Maybe you've never
experienced a variable (and SOMETIMES adequate) signal. The picture
becomes a mess of oversize pixels and the audio turns into
"bip....bup....bop......" (erratic semi-vocal noises).

I havne't gotten any noises, but I've certainly gotten checkerboards.

Why do the "authorities" continue to say that the picture is always
good? Don't they ever watch weak stations?

I haven't gotten noises but I get interruptions in picture and sound.

In fact every time I turn one of those transformer-base lamps on OR
off, the sound stops for a split second, and I think the
wall-switch/ceiling fixture does the same thing. I find this quite
amazing.
To best aim the antenna you will need a signal strength
meter. Some TVs and converter boxes have them.

My converter box has that, but it means moving the box around and
plugging the power supply. I'll probably just use the DVDR which
doesn't have it, but as long as I can see which channels work, that
should be enough. (If not, I can do it the other way next.) I see
that I didn't mention this, but all 10 DC stations, of which I now
only get 2, are within 4 degrees of each other, and I think within 10
degrees of the direction of the trusses in my attic. I think there
will be room to turn the antenna 10 degrees, especially if I move the
the mini-mast I'll be hanging from the 2x4 I put between 2 adjacent
trusses.

It may take a lot of spatial imagination. Supposedly I'm good at that,
so that part of it should be fun. Unless it takes too long.

Yes, and I hope you don't have to waste too much time fighting the
timeouts.

Thank you.

jamesgangnc wrote:
On Dec 16, 12:16 pm, mm wrote:
On Wed, 16 Dec 2009 10:42:52 -0500, Tony
wrote:



OK, you are in a much better reception area than me. My antenna is
about 9 feet long. Whole different story!
Absolutely.

Your antenna would work about 3 times better outside on a pole than in
your attic.

But outside it will only last 20 to 40 years and inside it will last
100-200 years. ;-) Oh, if inside, I hope you don't have or plan on
having a steel roof!

On Wed, 16 Dec 2009 09:52:15 -0800 (PST), jamesgangnc
wrote:

On Dec 16, 12:16*pm, mm wrote:
On Wed, 16 Dec 2009 10:42:52 -0500, Tony
wrote:



OK, you are in a much better reception area than me. *My antenna is
about 9 feet long. *Whole different story!

Absolutely.

Your antenna would work about 3 times better outside on a pole than in
your attic.

I know it would work better but outside is not an option.

On Wed, 16 Dec 2009 09:52:15 -0800 (PST), jamesgangnc
wrote:

On Dec 16, 12:16*pm, mm wrote:
On Wed, 16 Dec 2009 10:42:52 -0500, Tony
wrote:



OK, you are in a much better reception area than me. *My antenna is
about 9 feet long. *Whole different story!

Absolutely.

Your antenna would work about 3 times better outside on a pole than in
your attic.

Thank you. I know it would work better but outside is not an option.

On Wed, 16 Dec 2009 07:50:06 -0600, Mark Lloyd
wrote:


No snow or ghosts, but that last thing is NOT true. Maybe you've never
experienced a variable (and SOMETIMES adequate) signal. The picture
becomes a mess of oversize pixels and the audio turns into
"bip....bup....bop......" (erratic semi-vocal noises).

I havne't gotten any noises, but I've certainly gotten checkerboards.


The noises are actually parts of words, when the signal doesn't stay
on long enough for a whole word.

Oh, yeah, those noises I have gotten.

Last night again -- this has only been happening for the last two days
-- the picture went out just as the hero and villain had their guns on
each other. Picture came back 3 seconds later and they were still both
alive but running away.