I'm running Romex wire into my panel box. Put in a new breaker. I
know the black wire goes into the breaker. Do the ground (bare) wire
and the neutral (white) BOTH hook into the same bar? There is one on
each side of the panel. These are the only wires in the Romex. Thanks.

"Ed Mc" wrote in message
...
I'm running Romex wire into my panel box. Put in a new breaker. I know the
black wire goes into the breaker. Do the ground (bare) wire and the
neutral (white) BOTH hook into the same bar? There is one on each side of
the panel. These are the only wires in the Romex. Thanks.

If it is the main service panel, the neutrals and grounds go on the same
buss. If it is a sub-panel, there will be separate neutral bars and
equipment ground bars.

RBM wrote:
"Ed Mc" wrote in message
...
I'm running Romex wire into my panel box. Put in a new breaker. I know the
black wire goes into the breaker. Do the ground (bare) wire and the
neutral (white) BOTH hook into the same bar? There is one on each side of
the panel. These are the only wires in the Romex. Thanks.

If it is the main service panel, the neutrals and grounds go on the same
buss. If it is a sub-panel, there will be separate neutral bars and
equipment ground bars.



what he said.

careful messing inside the box, make sure you have the new breaker off
when you connect the wire to it. Be aware that the bus bars that the
breakers snap onto are always hot unless you have the main breaker shut
off, so if you feel in any way nervous about that, shut off the main and
have a helper hold a flashlight while you make final connections. Keep
in mind that even in that case, the two large conductors from the meter
to the box are still hot and are unfused, so stay away from them. Wear
nonconductive shoes, don't lean against anything metal while working in
the box, etc. etc. etc. I know, 99 times out of 100 nothing goes wrong
even without any deliberate safety precautions, but we don't want you to
become a one percenter.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

RBM wrote:
"Ed Mc" wrote in message
...
I'm running Romex wire into my panel box. Put in a new breaker. I
know the black wire goes into the breaker. Do the ground (bare)
wire and the neutral (white) BOTH hook into the same bar? There is
one on each side of the panel. These are the only wires in the
Romex. Thanks.

If it is the main service panel, the neutrals and grounds go on the
same buss. If it is a sub-panel, there will be separate neutral bars
and equipment ground bars.

Caution: The above advise only applies to the area the responder lives in,
in my area there are separate ground and neutral bars to use even in the the
main service panel. Although they are electrically tied together, one is
supposed to use the neutral bar for the white wires and the ground bar for
the ground wires - it also keeps the box neater.

"EXT" wrote in message
anews.com...
RBM wrote:
"Ed Mc" wrote in message
...
I'm running Romex wire into my panel box. Put in a new breaker. I
know the black wire goes into the breaker. Do the ground (bare)
wire and the neutral (white) BOTH hook into the same bar? There is
one on each side of the panel. These are the only wires in the
Romex. Thanks.

If it is the main service panel, the neutrals and grounds go on the
same buss. If it is a sub-panel, there will be separate neutral bars
and equipment ground bars.

Caution: The above advise only applies to the area the responder lives in,
in my area there are separate ground and neutral bars to use even in the
the main service panel. Although they are electrically tied together, one
is supposed to use the neutral bar for the white wires and the ground bar
for the ground wires - it also keeps the box neater.


Nonsense, it applies to anyone in the US following the National Electric
Code, including you. Many panels come with two bars, which can be bonded
together if used in a main service panel, or separated and isolated, if used
as a sub-panel

RBM wrote:
"EXT" wrote in message
anews.com...
RBM wrote:
"Ed Mc" wrote in message
...
I'm running Romex wire into my panel box. Put in a new breaker.
I know the black wire goes into the breaker. Do the ground
(bare) wire and the neutral (white) BOTH hook into the same
bar? There is one on each side of the panel. These are the only
wires in the Romex. Thanks.

If it is the main service panel, the neutrals and grounds go on
the same buss. If it is a sub-panel, there will be separate
neutral bars and equipment ground bars.

Caution: The above advise only applies to the area the responder
lives in, in my area there are separate ground and neutral bars to
use even in the the main service panel. Although they are
electrically tied together, one is supposed to use the neutral bar
for the white wires and the ground bar for the ground wires - it
also keeps the box neater.


Nonsense, it applies to anyone in the US following the National
Electric Code, including you. Many panels come with two bars, which
can be bonded together if used in a main service panel, or separated
and isolated, if used as a sub-panel

I am not in the US, and how do you know the OP is in the US. The internet is
world wide, advise cannot be "carte blanc", it has to be qualified according
to the regulations governing the country/region/locality it applies to.

EXT wrote:

I am not in the US, and how do you know the OP is in the US. The
internet is world wide, advise cannot be "carte blanc", it has to be
qualified according to the regulations governing the
country/region/locality it applies to.

The OP appears to be located in Seattle, Washington, USA.

--
Tony Sivori
Due to spam, I'm filtering all Google Groups posters.

"Tony Sivori" wrote in message
news
EXT wrote:

I am not in the US, and how do you know the OP is in the US. The
internet is world wide, advise cannot be "carte blanc", it has to be
qualified according to the regulations governing the
country/region/locality it applies to.

The OP appears to be located in Seattle, Washington, USA.

--
Tony Sivori
Due to spam, I'm filtering all Google Groups posters.

In Canada,the neutral wire goes to the neutral bus, and the ground wires
connects to the metal frame of the box.

The neutral bus is connected to the grounded box ONLY IN ONE SPOT.

Ray wrote:

In Canada,the neutral wire goes to the neutral bus, and the ground
wires connects to the metal frame of the box.

The neutral bus is connected to the grounded box ONLY IN ONE SPOT.

In Canada, milk comes in bags.

Jon

Jon Danniken wrote:
Ray wrote:
In Canada,the neutral wire goes to the neutral bus, and the ground
wires connects to the metal frame of the box.

The neutral bus is connected to the grounded box ONLY IN ONE SPOT.

In Canada, milk comes in bags.

Jon



Canucks export snow too, eh?

TDD

On Dec 13, 10:08*pm, "Ray" wrote:
"Tony Sivori" wrote in message

news
EXT wrote:

I am not in the US, and how do you know the OP is in the US. The
internet is world wide, advise cannot be "carte blanc", it has to be
qualified according to the regulations governing the
country/region/locality it applies to.

The OP appears to be located in Seattle, Washington, USA.

--
Tony Sivori
Due to spam, I'm filtering all Google Groups posters.

In Canada,the neutral wire goes to the neutral bus, and the ground wires
connects to the metal frame of the box.

The neutral bus is connected to the grounded box ONLY IN ONE SPOT.

Do the panels used in Canada have a dead front over the main lugs even
when the front cover is removed. Someone told me that in homes in
Canada that was required. It sounds like a great idea to me.

--
Tom Horne

On Dec 14, 1:29 am, "Jon Danniken"
wrote:
Ray wrote:

In Canada,the neutral wire goes to the neutral bus, and the ground
wires connects to the metal frame of the box.

The neutral bus is connected to the grounded box ONLY IN ONE SPOT.

In Canada, milk comes in bags.

Jon

Andy comments:

I watch "The Red Green Show", which originates in Canada, to
learn all about electrical hookups...... :)))))

On Dec 14, 7:27*am, Tom Horne wrote:
On Dec 13, 10:08*pm, "Ray" wrote:





"Tony Sivori" wrote in message

news

EXT wrote:

I am not in the US, and how do you know the OP is in the US. The
internet is world wide, advise cannot be "carte blanc", it has to be
qualified according to the regulations governing the
country/region/locality it applies to.

The OP appears to be located in Seattle, Washington, USA.

--
Tony Sivori
Due to spam, I'm filtering all Google Groups posters.

In Canada,the neutral wire goes to the neutral bus, and the ground wires
connects to the metal frame of the box.

The neutral bus is connected to the grounded box ONLY IN ONE SPOT.

Do the panels used in Canada have a dead front over the main lugs even
when the front cover is removed. *Someone told me that in homes in
Canada that was required. *It sounds like a great idea to me.

--
Tom Horne

Yup, the main lugs and the main breaker are in a separate section of
the panel. Removing the cover to work on the breakers doesn't expose
them (does expose the hot bars the breakers grab onto, of course.)
And the neutral and ground bars are separate, connected in one place
with a tie that's removable for subpanel use. And all the screws are
Robertson. This one's typical; see in the right photo how the top part
is still covered: http://tinyurl.com/y8fxdmn (Homedepot.ca). See also
how it's more expensive than what you get in the US even with the
dollar at over 95 cents.

But I gotta tell ya, the milk in bags thing is a losing proposition.
They spill, they flop around in the fridge, they dribble down into the
pitcher...dumb idea.

Chip C
Toronto

Tom Horne wrote:
On Dec 13, 10:08 pm, "Ray" wrote:
"Tony Sivori" wrote in message

news
EXT wrote:
I am not in the US, and how do you know the OP is in the US. The
internet is world wide, advise cannot be "carte blanc", it has to be
qualified according to the regulations governing the
country/region/locality it applies to.
The OP appears to be located in Seattle, Washington, USA.
--
Tony Sivori
Due to spam, I'm filtering all Google Groups posters.
In Canada,the neutral wire goes to the neutral bus, and the ground wires
connects to the metal frame of the box.

The neutral bus is connected to the grounded box ONLY IN ONE SPOT.

Do the panels used in Canada have a dead front over the main lugs even
when the front cover is removed. Someone told me that in homes in
Canada that was required. It sounds like a great idea to me.

--
Tom Horne

It'd make me a lot less twitchy when I have the cover off the box. Maybe
something like in the 19" racks I fuss with at work, clear plexi panels
over all the exposed mains power lugs on the power supplies and UPS
units mounted in the rack. So you can still inspect without touching, etc.

--
aem, who hasn't felt that 110v 60cycle buzz in decades, sends....

EXT wrote:

Caution: The above advise only applies to the area the responder lives
in, in my area there are separate ground and neutral bars to use even in
the the main service panel. Although they are electrically tied
together, one is supposed to use the neutral bar for the white wires and
the ground bar for the ground wires - it also keeps the box neater.

Even so, either white or bare can go on either bar.

On Mon, 14 Dec 2009 21:11:13 -0600, Steve Barker
wrote:

EXT wrote:

Caution: The above advise only applies to the area the responder lives
in, in my area there are separate ground and neutral bars to use even in
the the main service panel. Although they are electrically tied
together, one is supposed to use the neutral bar for the white wires and
the ground bar for the ground wires - it also keeps the box neater.

Even so, either white or bare can go on either bar.
Can, but not legally.

"Steve Barker" wrote in message
...
EXT wrote:

Caution: The above advise only applies to the area the responder lives
in, in my area there are separate ground and neutral bars to use even in
the the main service panel. Although they are electrically tied together,
one is supposed to use the neutral bar for the white wires and the ground
bar for the ground wires - it also keeps the box neater.

Even so, either white or bare can go on either bar.

It is certainly possible that the manufacturer has installed a designated
equipment grounding buss, with an instruction that only equipment grounding
conductors can be installed there. In which case, even by NEC, you would
have to follow the manufacturers instructions

On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 12:33:06 -0800, Ed Mc
wrote:

I'm running Romex wire into my panel box. Put in a new breaker. I
know the black wire goes into the breaker. Do the ground (bare) wire
and the neutral (white) BOTH hook into the same bar? There is one on
each side of the panel. These are the only wires in the Romex. Thanks.


Not enough information. Is this a main?

Steve Barker wrote:
EXT wrote:

Caution: The above advise only applies to the area the responder lives
in, in my area there are separate ground and neutral bars to use even
in the the main service panel. Although they are electrically tied
together, one is supposed to use the neutral bar for the white wires
and the ground bar for the ground wires - it also keeps the box neater.

Even so, either white or bare can go on either bar.


If the ground bar attaches only to the enclosure (as probably all ground
bar "kits" do) the (US) 2008 NEC prohibits connecting a neutral to the
ground bar.

--
bud--

Chip C wrote:
On Dec 14, 7:27 am, Tom Horne wrote:

Do the panels used in Canada have a dead front over the main lugs even
when the front cover is removed. Someone told me that in homes in
Canada that was required. It sounds like a great idea to me.


Yup, the main lugs and the main breaker are in a separate section of
the panel. Removing the cover to work on the breakers doesn't expose
them (does expose the hot bars the breakers grab onto, of course.)
And the neutral and ground bars are separate, connected in one place
with a tie that's removable for subpanel use. And all the screws are
Robertson. This one's typical; see in the right photo how the top part
is still covered: http://tinyurl.com/y8fxdmn (Homedepot.ca). See also
how it's more expensive than what you get in the US even with the
dollar at over 95 cents.


Looks like if you are adding wiring coming in the top you have to remove
the dead front protection. Would be nice to have protection only at the
service wire lugs.

Europe may(?) be way ahead of us in 'touch safe" protection of lugs.

--
bud--

Phisherman wrote:
On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 12:33:06 -0800, Ed Mc
wrote:

I'm running Romex wire into my panel box. Put in a new breaker. I
know the black wire goes into the breaker. Do the ground (bare) wire
and the neutral (white) BOTH hook into the same bar? There is one on
each side of the panel. These are the only wires in the Romex. Thanks.


Not enough information. Is this a main?
Yes, this is the main service panel. There are 2 buss bars running
vertically down both sides of the box. There are BOTH white and bare
wire's hooked to EACH bar. Hence, my confusion.

Ed Mc wrote:
Phisherman wrote:
On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 12:33:06 -0800, Ed Mc
wrote:

I'm running Romex wire into my panel box. Put in a new breaker. I
know the black wire goes into the breaker. Do the ground (bare) wire
and the neutral (white) BOTH hook into the same bar? There is one on
each side of the panel. These are the only wires in the Romex.
Thanks.


Not enough information. Is this a main?

Yes, this is the main service panel. There are 2 buss bars running
vertically down both sides of the box. There are BOTH white and bare
wire's hooked to EACH bar. Hence, my confusion.

Since it is a main and not a subpanel, that is correct -- both white and
bare wires can be (and usually are) connected to each bar.

RBM wrote above saying the same thing:

"If it is the main service panel, the neutrals and grounds go on the same
buss. If it is a sub-panel, there will be separate neutral bars and
equipment ground bars."

And, Nate Nagel wrote that that is correct. Others probably did too, but
I'd have to go back and read all the messages again to check.

But, again, what you wrote ("There are BOTH white and bare wire's hooked to
EACH bar") is correct for a main panel.

et.tnT

On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 16:32:38 -0500, "Jay-T"
wrote:

Ed Mc wrote:
Phisherman wrote:
On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 12:33:06 -0800, Ed Mc
wrote:

I'm running Romex wire into my panel box. Put in a new breaker. I
know the black wire goes into the breaker. Do the ground (bare) wire
and the neutral (white) BOTH hook into the same bar? There is one on
each side of the panel. These are the only wires in the Romex.
Thanks.


Not enough information. Is this a main?

Yes, this is the main service panel. There are 2 buss bars running
vertically down both sides of the box. There are BOTH white and bare
wire's hooked to EACH bar. Hence, my confusion.

Since it is a main and not a subpanel, that is correct -- both white and
bare wires can be (and usually are) connected to each bar.

RBM wrote above saying the same thing:

"If it is the main service panel, the neutrals and grounds go on the same
buss. If it is a sub-panel, there will be separate neutral bars and
equipment ground bars."

And, Nate Nagel wrote that that is correct. Others probably did too, but
I'd have to go back and read all the messages again to check.

But, again, what you wrote ("There are BOTH white and bare wire's hooked to
EACH bar") is correct for a main panel.

et.tnT

Depends where in the world he is. In Canada, there are 2 busses - one
ground (for bare wire) and one neutral (for white wire) - bonded for
main panel and not bonded for sub. - and code requires the neutral and
the safety ground to be installed on their correct Buss.

wrote:
....

Depends where in the world he is. In Canada, there are 2 busses - one
ground (for bare wire) and one neutral (for white wire) - bonded for
main panel and not bonded for sub. - and code requires the neutral and
the safety ground to be installed on their correct Buss.

I'm virtually positive that's what US NEC says, too...

Even if not, it is, imo, poor practice to mix the two.

--

"dpb" wrote in message
...
wrote:
...

Depends where in the world he is. In Canada, there are 2 busses - one
ground (for bare wire) and one neutral (for white wire) - bonded for
main panel and not bonded for sub. - and code requires the neutral and
the safety ground to be installed on their correct Buss.

I'm virtually positive that's what US NEC says, too...

Even if not, it is, imo, poor practice to mix the two.

--
Considering that many, if not most ,main service panels in the US only
have one neutral/ground buss, how do you not mix neutrals and grounds?

"dpb" wrote in message
...
wrote:
...

Depends where in the world he is. In Canada, there are 2 busses - one
ground (for bare wire) and one neutral (for white wire) - bonded for
main panel and not bonded for sub. - and code requires the neutral and
the safety ground to be installed on their correct Buss.

I'm virtually positive that's what US NEC says, too...

Even if not, it is, imo, poor practice to mix the two.

--
Considering that in the US, in a main service panel, the neutral service
feeder and the grounding electrode system are bonded together and attached
to the neutral/ground buss, so how is connecting neutrals and equipment
grounds to the same buss, "poor practice"?

"Chip C" wrote in message
...
On Dec 14, 7:27 am, Tom Horne wrote:
On Dec 13, 10:08 pm, "Ray" wrote:





"Tony Sivori" wrote in message

news

EXT wrote:

I am not in the US, and how do you know the OP is in the US. The
internet is world wide, advise cannot be "carte blanc", it has to be
qualified according to the regulations governing the
country/region/locality it applies to.

The OP appears to be located in Seattle, Washington, USA.

--
Tony Sivori
Due to spam, I'm filtering all Google Groups posters.

In Canada,the neutral wire goes to the neutral bus, and the ground wires
connects to the metal frame of the box.

The neutral bus is connected to the grounded box ONLY IN ONE SPOT.

Do the panels used in Canada have a dead front over the main lugs even
when the front cover is removed. Someone told me that in homes in
Canada that was required. It sounds like a great idea to me.

--
Tom Horne

Yup, the main lugs and the main breaker are in a separate section of
the panel. Removing the cover to work on the breakers doesn't expose
them (does expose the hot bars the breakers grab onto, of course.)
And the neutral and ground bars are separate, connected in one place
with a tie that's removable for subpanel use. And all the screws are
Robertson. This one's typical; see in the right photo how the top part
is still covered: http://tinyurl.com/y8fxdmn (Homedepot.ca). See also
how it's more expensive than what you get in the US even with the
dollar at over 95 cents.

But I gotta tell ya, the milk in bags thing is a losing proposition.
They spill, they flop around in the fridge, they dribble down into the
pitcher...dumb idea.

Chip C
Toronto

Chip, the panel that you linked to, has 2 equipment ground only busses. Is
it Canadian code that a service panel must have them, is this something new,
and can you or could you ever, install equipment grounds on the neutral
buss, as we do in the US?

dpb wrote:
wrote:
...

Depends where in the world he is. In Canada, there are 2 busses - one
ground (for bare wire) and one neutral (for white wire) - bonded for
main panel and not bonded for sub. - and code requires the neutral and
the safety ground to be installed on their correct Buss.

I'm virtually positive that's what US NEC says, too...

Even if not, it is, imo, poor practice to mix the two.

If it does say that, it's a new addition since the installation of the
panel in my house (and/or whoever did it didn't do it to code - but I
would ASSume that one would have pulled a permit for a panel replacement...)

I agree that it seems like a good idea, I just haven't seen it done.

I believe there's something in there about not putting more than one
neutral wire under a single screw, though? You can have more than one
ground under a screw, just no more than the connection is rated for
(e.g. it might be 3x 14AWG, 2x12AWG etc.) but only one neutral. I
assume this is to remove the possibility of opening a neutral on an
energized circuit while trying to service a different circuit.

Yes, I am in the YooEss. Not an electrician, but pretty handy. I do
try to "do things right" but don't pretend to know everything about code.

nate


--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

RBM wrote:
....

Considering that many, if not most ,main service panels in the US only
have one neutral/ground buss, how do you not mix neutrals and grounds?

Any I've seen in the recent past have two. The service-only panels have
the neutral buss also grounded to the cabinet but still have two busbars.

Even my ancient FPE stuff was built that way...

--

"dpb" wrote in message
...
RBM wrote:
...

Considering that many, if not most ,main service panels in the US only
have one neutral/ground buss, how do you not mix neutrals and grounds?

Any I've seen in the recent past have two. The service-only panels have
the neutral buss also grounded to the cabinet but still have two busbars.

Even my ancient FPE stuff was built that way...


There are a number of manufacturers, each makes a pile of panel styles, with
a multitude of neutral/ground buss arrangements. In the US , regardless of
the buss arrangements, if they are attached together, attached to the
service neutral, and the grounding electrode system, you can attach both
neutrals and grounds to them.
There are some panels made, which Bud made reference to, that have an
equipment grounding "only" buss. This buss is attached to the frame of the
panel only, and not to the service neutral conductor except via the steel of
the cabinet. It may be that in Canada, this type of arrangement is what's
required by code
--