Home Depot is hawking a system for recirculating hot water such that
each faucet in the home has instant hot water. Does anyone have any
comments, good or bad, about these?

mcp6453 wrote:

Home Depot is hawking a system for recirculating hot water such that
each faucet in the home has instant hot water. Does anyone have any
comments, good or bad, about these?

I've seen them in other "home improvement" stores too. I get the
impression that they are aimed at people who want everything "right
now." How long does it take for the water to run hot in a house with
well-insulated hot-water pipes? And would it not work only for a
building where the hot-water pipes all run in one direction from the
water heater? Pipes run in both directions away from our water heater?

I can't imagine recovering the cost (through saving a little water) in
less than a decade or two.

Perce

On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 20:36:56 -0500, mcp6453 wrote:

Home Depot is hawking a system for recirculating hot water such that
each faucet in the home has instant hot water. Does anyone have any
comments, good or bad, about these?

The original systems circulated water constantly, or least constantly
during certain times of the day (set by a timer for say, morning and
evening). I feel these waste energy.

I like the systems that require you to press a button when you enter
the bathroom, say. Then it pumps water from the hot side to the cold
side until the temp sensor senses the water is hot and it shuts off.

With that kind of system, you don't waste water, and only a minimal
amount of electricity is used. You can choose to press the button or
not based on what you will be doing in the room.

Very convienent. Saves water but doesn't waste energy.

My $.02

Paul F.

Percival P. Cassidy wrote:
mcp6453 wrote:

Home Depot is hawking a system for recirculating hot water such that
each faucet in the home has instant hot water. Does anyone have any
comments, good or bad, about these?

I've seen them in other "home improvement" stores too. I get the
impression that they are aimed at people who want everything "right
now." How long does it take for the water to run hot in a house with
well-insulated hot-water pipes? And would it not work only for a
building where the hot-water pipes all run in one direction from the
water heater? Pipes run in both directions away from our water heater?

I can't imagine recovering the cost (through saving a little water) in
less than a decade or two.

Perce

I can tell you, mine takes 30 seconds and a full half gallon to get hot
at the kitchen. Not only a waste, but also an extra load on the septic.
It's not about recovering the cost, it's about having hot water
without waiting. When you only need 2 quarts of hot to start a pasta,
why wait whilst 2 quarts go down the drain? I like the chili pepper
product myself. http://www.chilipepperapp.com/

mcp6453 wrote:
Home Depot is hawking a system for recirculating hot water such that
each faucet in the home has instant hot water. Does anyone have any
comments, good or bad, about these?

I have had the Watts system, purchased from Costco, for about a year and
am pleased with it. It saves me time and water by not having to run
cold water doen the drain while waiting for hot water. By setting the
timer to run only when I need it, the additional energy usage is
trivial. The only drawback is some water hammer because of the sensor
valve between the hot and cold lines.

The Watts system places the recirculating pump at the water heater and
the sensor valve at the fixture at the end of the line. Other brands
combine the pump and the sensor valve. One deciding factor is at which
location an electrical outlet is available.

Paul Franklin wrote:
On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 20:36:56 -0500, mcp6453 wrote:

Home Depot is hawking a system for recirculating hot water such that
each faucet in the home has instant hot water. Does anyone have any
comments, good or bad, about these?

The original systems circulated water constantly, or least constantly
during certain times of the day (set by a timer for say, morning and
evening). I feel these waste energy.

I like the systems that require you to press a button when you enter
the bathroom, say. Then it pumps water from the hot side to the cold
side until the temp sensor senses the water is hot and it shuts off.

With that kind of system, you don't waste water, and only a minimal
amount of electricity is used. You can choose to press the button or
not based on what you will be doing in the room.

Very convienent. Saves water but doesn't waste energy.

I didn't realize they made commercial systems like that. It is the way mine
works, without the temp sensor. When I re-plumbed, I ran an extra return line. I
push a button, and the pump by the heater runs for 45 seconds. When you turn the
faucet on after that, it's hot within 2 seconds.
It's really nice.

On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 20:36:56 -0500, mcp6453 wrote:

Home Depot is hawking a system for recirculating hot water such that
each faucet in the home has instant hot water. Does anyone have any
comments, good or bad, about these?

Complex and innefficient.
Best way to have "instant" hot water is to have a small water heater
at the point of use which supplies hot water immediately on demand,
untill the cold water has come through the pipes. You get HOT water
right away, then the temperature drops a little bit if you use more
than the capacity of the small heater as the cold bollus comes
through, then back to hot.

On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 20:55:11 -0600, Steve Barker
wrote:

Percival P. Cassidy wrote:
mcp6453 wrote:

Home Depot is hawking a system for recirculating hot water such that
each faucet in the home has instant hot water. Does anyone have any
comments, good or bad, about these?

I've seen them in other "home improvement" stores too. I get the
impression that they are aimed at people who want everything "right
now." How long does it take for the water to run hot in a house with
well-insulated hot-water pipes? And would it not work only for a
building where the hot-water pipes all run in one direction from the
water heater? Pipes run in both directions away from our water heater?

I can't imagine recovering the cost (through saving a little water) in
less than a decade or two.

Perce

I can tell you, mine takes 30 seconds and a full half gallon to get hot
at the kitchen. Not only a waste, but also an extra load on the septic.
It's not about recovering the cost, it's about having hot water
without waiting. When you only need 2 quarts of hot to start a pasta,
why wait whilst 2 quarts go down the drain? I like the chili pepper
product myself. http://www.chilipepperapp.com/

About 2.25 gallons to get hot water to our bathroom. Heater in the
bottom corner, bathroom opposite top corner of 2 story house. About 55
feet of pipe to the tub.

wrote:
On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 20:36:56 -0500, mcp6453 wrote:

Home Depot is hawking a system for recirculating hot water such that
each faucet in the home has instant hot water. Does anyone have any
comments, good or bad, about these?

Complex and innefficient.
Best way to have "instant" hot water is to have a small water heater
at the point of use which supplies hot water immediately on demand,
untill the cold water has come through the pipes. You get HOT water
right away, then the temperature drops a little bit if you use more
than the capacity of the small heater as the cold bollus comes
through, then back to hot.

Except the small heater will inevitably be electric, which cost significantly
more to run than gas. Pumping a little cold water back to the heater costs next
to nothing, and saves water over running the water.

Plus, the extra heater is one more to fail/replace regularly.

Steve Barker wrote:

I can tell you, mine takes 30 seconds and a full half gallon to get
hot at the kitchen. Not only a waste, but also an extra load on the
septic. It's not about recovering the cost, it's about having hot
water without waiting. When you only need 2 quarts of hot to start a
pasta,
why wait whilst 2 quarts go down the drain? I like the chili pepper
product myself. http://www.chilipepperapp.com/

It's not the best idea to use water from the water heater for human
consumption. Water from the heater can contain a goodly number of dissolved
minerals and metals, including lead from soldered joints. Over the days and
years, all kinds of nastiness from the municipal water supply congregates
and settles in the water heater tank. Further, the 140° of a water heater is
insufficient to kill most bacteria which flourish in the tank. A few years
ago, many at the IRS office in Houston came down with Legionnaire's Disease.
The vector was traced to a bacteria colony in the water heater.

The most ghastly condition is to use hot water from the tap to mix infant
formula!

Bottom line: Do not ingest water that comes from any water heater. Water
heater water is not potable.

My church has 3/4 inch water copper from the instant water
heater (mechanical room over head) to the bathroom faucets.
Takes four minutes to get hot water. I timed it, one cold
winter day.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote in message
...

I've seen them in other "home improvement" stores too. I get
the
impression that they are aimed at people who want everything
"right
now." How long does it take for the water to run hot in a
house with
well-insulated hot-water pipes? And would it not work only
for a
building where the hot-water pipes all run in one direction
from the
water heater? Pipes run in both directions away from our
water heater?

I can't imagine recovering the cost (through saving a little
water) in
less than a decade or two.

Perce

My one set of grand parents had a similar thing. Lived in
second floor of a house, and she would sometimes leave the
water running in the kitchen sink and forget she left it on.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


wrote in message
...

About 2.25 gallons to get hot water to our bathroom. Heater
in the
bottom corner, bathroom opposite top corner of 2 story
house. About 55
feet of pipe to the tub.

I'm going to die!

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"HeyBub" wrote in message
m...

Bottom line: Do not ingest water that comes from any water
heater. Water
heater water is not potable.

On Sat, 12 Dec 2009 08:37:23 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

I'm going to die!

Yes, you are.

On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 20:36:56 -0500, mcp6453 wrote:

Home Depot is hawking a system for recirculating hot water such that
each faucet in the home has instant hot water. Does anyone have any
comments, good or bad, about these?

Yes it works. There are several different ways of doing it.
However how much if any energy that might be saved is questionable.

I have seen versions that constently circulate the water and
some that only circulate it when called on (meaning it still takes a
little time).

I have not bothered. I do have an instant hot water supply in
my kitchen however. Convenient.

Stormin Mormon wrote:
I'm going to die!


Yes... I think we all will.

on 12/12/2009 10:44 AM (ET) Tony wrote the following:
Stormin Mormon wrote:
I'm going to die!


Yes... I think we all will.

I am going to live forever, at least until December 21, 2012. :-)

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

On Dec 12, 10:07*am, Van Chocstraw
wrote:
mcp6453 wrote:
Home Depot is hawking a system for recirculating hot water such that
each faucet in the home has instant hot water. Does anyone have any
comments, good or bad, about these?

Another energy wasting idea from the fuel companies.

What is your basis for the claim, which I find ridiculous, that this
idea or product is in any way connected to any fuel company?

To the OP's question, the systems for recirculating do work. Most
have a timer so that the water is only kept recirculating during
periods when it is likely to be used. They do not deliver it to
every point of use, only those that are modified to recirculate and to
others that share that same flow route. You could also use an X10 or
similar motion sensor to trigger the recirculation to start when
someone walks into the room.

The biggest negative is that unless you rig a seperate return line,
which is usually difficult, they pump the stale hot water back into
the cold water line. That means if you draw what you think is fresh
cold water you often will be getting lukewarm water that came from the
hot water tank and isn;t what you would want to consume. So, if you
want a cold glass of water at night, you're going to have to let it
run long enough to be sure to get fresh water. Or if it's hooked to
the kitchen sink and you want fresh water for cooking, same problem.



What you need is a small 6 gallon point of use tank under the sink.
Gives you instant hot water and uses little energy. If you use enough
hot water the hot water from the main tank reheats the point of use tank
so it doesn't even need to heat the water.

Which solves part of the problem, but doesn't fix waiting for hot
water for a shower, bath, etc.

Bob F wrote:
Paul Franklin wrote:
On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 20:36:56 -0500, mcp6453 wrote:

Home Depot is hawking a system for recirculating hot water such that
each faucet in the home has instant hot water. Does anyone have any
comments, good or bad, about these?
The original systems circulated water constantly, or least constantly
during certain times of the day (set by a timer for say, morning and
evening). I feel these waste energy.

I like the systems that require you to press a button when you enter
the bathroom, say. Then it pumps water from the hot side to the cold
side until the temp sensor senses the water is hot and it shuts off.

With that kind of system, you don't waste water, and only a minimal
amount of electricity is used. You can choose to press the button or
not based on what you will be doing in the room.

Very convienent. Saves water but doesn't waste energy.

I didn't realize they made commercial systems like that. It is the way mine
works, without the temp sensor. When I re-plumbed, I ran an extra return line. I
push a button, and the pump by the heater runs for 45 seconds. When you turn the
faucet on after that, it's hot within 2 seconds.
It's really nice.

This reminds me of the cheap F*ck*ng Sands Casino in Vegas. (I think
it's gone or rebuilt now) With the schedule I kept, I liked to take a
shower in the early afternoon. In large buildings they circulate the
hot water in a loop or it would never make it to your room without
getting cold. It seems to save money they turned of the recirculating
after most people where done taking showers. The first day I let the
*hot* water run for 15 minutes and it was still cold. I called to have
it fixed and they sent a guy up to verify my hot water wasn't hot. Then
he said he would look for the problem. About 1/2 hour later I had hot
water. The next day I checked the water temp earlier, called to
complain earlier, and it was the same scenario but more time elapsed
before I had hot water. Same thing for ? days. On my 2nd last day
there I got an idea. As everyone was checking in I made a loud
complaints about not having hot water every day. I was creating a small
scene, and a few people in line left after I told them they will have
the same problem too. I don't recall all what I said but I was on the
verge of getting kicked out. Not sure if the water ever got hot that
afternoon, but I was OK because I got up early that day to shower. On
the morning I checked out, I stood next to people in line and told them
to ask if hot water is available all day and told them of my experience.
Had a few more people walk out, and some did actually ask if hot
water was available all day. After a few warnings I left before getting
arrested.

"Bob F" wrote:

I didn't realize they made commercial systems like that. It is the way mine
works, without the temp sensor. When I re-plumbed, I ran an extra return line. I
push a button, and the pump by the heater runs for 45 seconds. When you turn the
faucet on after that, it's hot within 2 seconds.
It's really nice.

I have a timer based system installed when the house was built, but would like
to change to a button based system. Water use is just too unpredictable here!
Where did you get your button system?

Tony wrote:

This reminds me of the cheap F*ck*ng Sands Casino in Vegas. (I think
it's gone or rebuilt now) With the schedule I kept, I liked to take a
shower in the early afternoon. In large buildings they circulate the
hot water in a loop or it would never make it to your room without
getting cold. It seems to save money they turned of the recirculating
after most people where done taking showers. The first day I let the
*hot* water run for 15 minutes and it was still cold.

I've stayed at hotels like that, including the Disneyland Hotel. Extremely
annoying.

Van Chocstraw wrote:
mcp6453 wrote:
Home Depot is hawking a system for recirculating hot water such that
each faucet in the home has instant hot water. Does anyone have any
comments, good or bad, about these?

Another energy wasting idea from the fuel companies.

What you need is a small 6 gallon point of use tank under the sink.
Gives you instant hot water and uses little energy. If you use enough
hot water the hot water from the main tank reheats the point of use
tank so it doesn't even need to heat the water.

Van Chocstraw wrote:
mcp6453 wrote:
Home Depot is hawking a system for recirculating hot water such that
each faucet in the home has instant hot water. Does anyone have any
comments, good or bad, about these?

Another energy wasting idea from the fuel companies.

What you need is a small 6 gallon point of use tank under the sink.
Gives you instant hot water and uses little energy. If you use enough
hot water the hot water from the main tank reheats the point of use
tank so it doesn't even need to heat the water.

Which introduces a big waste of energy all the time. The push button pump system
wastes none. It only warms the pipes when you are going to use the hot water
anyway.

Stormin Mormon wrote:
My church has 3/4 inch water copper from the instant water
heater (mechanical room over head) to the bathroom faucets.
Takes four minutes to get hot water. I timed it, one cold
winter day.

That brings up another issue for the recirc pumps. They are unlikely to work
with on-demand water heaters.

Robert Neville wrote:
"Bob F" wrote:

I didn't realize they made commercial systems like that. It is the
way mine works, without the temp sensor. When I re-plumbed, I ran an
extra return line. I push a button, and the pump by the heater runs
for 45 seconds. When you turn the faucet on after that, it's hot
within 2 seconds.
It's really nice.

I have a timer based system installed when the house was built, but
would like to change to a button based system. Water use is just too
unpredictable here! Where did you get your button system?

All you need is the button and a time delay relay to replace the timer you
already have. Your pump should work fine with the new switch.

"Bob F" wrote:

All you need is the button and a time delay relay to replace the timer you
already have. Your pump should work fine with the new switch.

Yes, it's the time delay relay I was interested in locating...

On Sat, 12 Dec 2009 07:56:34 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Dec 12, 10:07Â*am, Van Chocstraw
wrote:
mcp6453 wrote:
Home Depot is hawking a system for recirculating hot water such that
each faucet in the home has instant hot water. Does anyone have any
comments, good or bad, about these?

Another energy wasting idea from the fuel companies.

What is your basis for the claim, which I find ridiculous, that this
idea or product is in any way connected to any fuel company?

To the OP's question, the systems for recirculating do work. Most
have a timer so that the water is only kept recirculating during
periods when it is likely to be used. They do not deliver it to
every point of use, only those that are modified to recirculate and to
others that share that same flow route. You could also use an X10 or
similar motion sensor to trigger the recirculation to start when
someone walks into the room.

The biggest negative is that unless you rig a seperate return line,
which is usually difficult, they pump the stale hot water back into
the cold water line. That means if you draw what you think is fresh
cold water you often will be getting lukewarm water that came from the
hot water tank and isn;t what you would want to consume. So, if you
want a cold glass of water at night, you're going to have to let it
run long enough to be sure to get fresh water. Or if it's hooked to
the kitchen sink and you want fresh water for cooking, same problem.



What you need is a small 6 gallon point of use tank under the sink.
Gives you instant hot water and uses little energy. If you use enough
hot water the hot water from the main tank reheats the point of use tank
so it doesn't even need to heat the water.

Which solves part of the problem, but doesn't fix waiting for hot
water for a shower, bath, etc.
How does it not? Point of use = under bathroom vanity or in linen
closet in bathroom, within FET of the shower. 2 bathrooms?? Two POU
heaters

I think pumping the tepid water into the cold water supply line means
you won't have cold water, assuming the pump is in working order.

I like keeping the cold and hot water supply lines separate. When I was
remodeling the bathroom, and had easy access to the lines, I added a
return line from the far end of the hot water supply line back to the
water heater, forming a supply loop. I put a check valve in the return
line so when flow is high, the return line is disabled. I insulated the
original supply line, and left the return line uninsulated. Through the
magic of gravity (more reliable than a pump, and cheaper) there is a
constant flow of hot water through the loop, so when we crack the
faucet, we get instant hot water. There is no cost for electricity, and
no pump to break. I do use a little more gas for the heater, as there
is a heat loss from the return line, but that is welcome heat into the
house during the cold months.

Installation is not hard if you can get access to the supply lines and a
space for the return line. Operating costs are low, and the system will
run until congress repeals the law of gravity.

mcp6453 wrote:
Home Depot is hawking a system for recirculating hot water such that
each faucet in the home has instant hot water. Does anyone have any
comments, good or bad, about these?

On Sat, 12 Dec 2009 09:10:31 -0800, "Bob F"
wrote:

Van Chocstraw wrote:
mcp6453 wrote:
Home Depot is hawking a system for recirculating hot water such that
each faucet in the home has instant hot water. Does anyone have any
comments, good or bad, about these?

Another energy wasting idea from the fuel companies.

What you need is a small 6 gallon point of use tank under the sink.
Gives you instant hot water and uses little energy. If you use enough
hot water the hot water from the main tank reheats the point of use
tank so it doesn't even need to heat the water.

Which introduces a big waste of energy all the time. The push button pump system
wastes none. It only warms the pipes when you are going to use the hot water
anyway.


Have you ever checked to see how much power is required to keep a well
insulated 5 gallon water heater hot?????? Likely about as much as to
run a circulating pump. And it's a lot easier to retrofit to an
existing house.
You can also put a SWITCH on it, or a TIMER so you only have hot water
in reserve when you are likely to want it.

On Sat, 12 Dec 2009 09:13:07 -0800, "Bob F"
wrote:

Stormin Mormon wrote:
My church has 3/4 inch water copper from the instant water
heater (mechanical room over head) to the bathroom faucets.
Takes four minutes to get hot water. I timed it, one cold
winter day.

That brings up another issue for the recirc pumps. They are unlikely to work
with on-demand water heaters.

Tankless on demand water heaters are a cruel hoax.

mcp6453 wrote:
Home Depot is hawking a system for recirculating hot water such that
each faucet in the home has instant hot water. Does anyone have any
comments, good or bad, about these?
I think putting hot water into the cold
pipe is not good. Just think, you
get up at 3AM and want a drink of water.
You get warm water or you
then must run the cold to purge out the
warm. I would prefer a real loop.

In my new house, everything seems to be
connected with 3/4" PEX. The
faucets are all lower flow than I'm used
to. But, they have made up for
the flow with better aerators. Anyway,
my kitchen sink it right above the
water heater (in the basement). Low
flow, coupled with larger pipes and
a kitchen faucet that has a pull out
hose end, makes for a long wait for hot
water. Also, the bathrooms take
forever. Unfortunately, they are at
opposite ends from the water heater. I
was thinking of gravity loops, but
I know they don't always work well. I
might need 2 pumps to accomplish
this ... or one, with some flow
adjustments.

I keep looking at the subject line and remembering the spoof
ad for Instant Hot Water: Just add water and heat.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On Dec 12, 12:25*pm, wrote:
On Sat, 12 Dec 2009 07:56:34 -0800 (PST), wrote:
On Dec 12, 10:07*am, Van Chocstraw
wrote:
mcp6453 wrote:
Home Depot is hawking a system for recirculating hot water such that
each faucet in the home has instant hot water. Does anyone have any
comments, good or bad, about these?

Another energy wasting idea from the fuel companies.

What is your basis for the claim, which I find ridiculous, that this
idea or product is in any way connected to any fuel company?

To the OP's question, the systems for recirculating do work. * Most
have a timer so that the water is only kept recirculating during
periods when it is likely to be used. * They do not deliver it to
every point of use, only those that are modified to recirculate and to
others that share that same flow route. * You could also use an X10 or
similar motion sensor to trigger the recirculation to start when
someone walks into the room.

The biggest negative is that unless you rig a seperate return line,
which is usually difficult, they pump the stale hot water back into
the cold water line. * That means if you draw what you think is fresh
cold water you often will be getting lukewarm water that came from the
hot water tank and isn;t what you would want to consume. * So, if you
want a cold glass of water at night, you're going to have to let it
run long enough to be sure to get fresh water. * *Or if it's hooked to
the kitchen sink and you want fresh water for cooking, same problem.

What you need is a small 6 gallon point of use tank under the sink.
Gives you instant hot water and uses little energy. If you use enough
hot water the hot water from the main tank reheats the point of use tank
so it doesn't even need to heat the water.

Which solves part of the problem, but doesn't fix waiting for hot
water for a shower, bath, etc.

*How does it not? Point of use *= under bathroom vanity or in linen
closet in bathroom, within FET of the shower. 2 bathrooms?? Two POU
heaters- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Well, I've never actually tried it. But I would think with a 6
gallon tank, you'd get 5 gallons or so of hot water, then the water
would become much cooler as the tank filled with the tepid water in
the lines. After enough water flowed, it would reach the temp of the
running hot water. So, it sounds like you'd get the shower temp set,
only to have it dip, then after you re-adjust to get it comfortable,
you;'d have to again re-adjust to lower it a couple minutes later.
If you had one of the automatic temp valves on the shower, then I
guess it could work.

Also in many cases it would seem difficult to plumb the heater in to
the shower as opposed to placing it under the vanity. My bathroom,
for example, has pedestal style sinks and no easy access to the pipes
going to the shower.

On Sat, 12 Dec 2009 17:46:01 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Dec 12, 12:25Â*pm, wrote:
On Sat, 12 Dec 2009 07:56:34 -0800 (PST), wrote:
On Dec 12, 10:07Â*am, Van Chocstraw
wrote:
mcp6453 wrote:
Home Depot is hawking a system for recirculating hot water such that
each faucet in the home has instant hot water. Does anyone have any
comments, good or bad, about these?

Another energy wasting idea from the fuel companies.

What is your basis for the claim, which I find ridiculous, that this
idea or product is in any way connected to any fuel company?

To the OP's question, the systems for recirculating do work. Â* Most
have a timer so that the water is only kept recirculating during
periods when it is likely to be used. Â* They do not deliver it to
every point of use, only those that are modified to recirculate and to
others that share that same flow route. Â* You could also use an X10 or
similar motion sensor to trigger the recirculation to start when
someone walks into the room.

The biggest negative is that unless you rig a seperate return line,
which is usually difficult, they pump the stale hot water back into
the cold water line. Â* That means if you draw what you think is fresh
cold water you often will be getting lukewarm water that came from the
hot water tank and isn;t what you would want to consume. Â* So, if you
want a cold glass of water at night, you're going to have to let it
run long enough to be sure to get fresh water. Â* Â*Or if it's hooked to
the kitchen sink and you want fresh water for cooking, same problem.

What you need is a small 6 gallon point of use tank under the sink.
Gives you instant hot water and uses little energy. If you use enough
hot water the hot water from the main tank reheats the point of use tank
so it doesn't even need to heat the water.

Which solves part of the problem, but doesn't fix waiting for hot
water for a shower, bath, etc.

Â*How does it not? Point of use Â*= under bathroom vanity or in linen
closet in bathroom, within FET of the shower. 2 bathrooms?? Two POU
heaters- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Well, I've never actually tried it. But I would think with a 6
gallon tank, you'd get 5 gallons or so of hot water, then the water
would become much cooler as the tank filled with the tepid water in
the lines. After enough water flowed, it would reach the temp of the
running hot water. So, it sounds like you'd get the shower temp set,
only to have it dip, then after you re-adjust to get it comfortable,
you;'d have to again re-adjust to lower it a couple minutes later.
If you had one of the automatic temp valves on the shower, then I
guess it could work.

Also in many cases it would seem difficult to plumb the heater in to
the shower as opposed to placing it under the vanity. My bathroom,
for example, has pedestal style sinks and no easy access to the pipes
going to the shower.
Well, you are right to a point. You would get instant hot water which
would then be slightly diluted by the cold water coming in. However,
if it takes 2.5 gallons to get hot water, and you have a 5 gallon
heater on line, as soon as the cold water starts coming in the heater
would come on, tempering the cold water coming in, so the actualhange
in water temperature would not be "shocking". A temperature controlled
chower valve would be the ticket, with one installed you would not
notice any difference from initial turn-on 'till the end of the
shower.

Then again, it IS time Americans learn how to take a shower with 5
gallons of hot water. 5 gallons of 150F water makes for about an 8
gallon shower - which, REALLY, is plenty (3 gallon showers in Africa
were considered extravegant - particularly if YOU had to carry the
water, - and it was generally unheated too!

wrote:
On Sat, 12 Dec 2009 09:10:31 -0800, "Bob F"
wrote:

Van Chocstraw wrote:
mcp6453 wrote:
Home Depot is hawking a system for recirculating hot water such
that each faucet in the home has instant hot water. Does anyone
have any comments, good or bad, about these?

Another energy wasting idea from the fuel companies.

What you need is a small 6 gallon point of use tank under the sink.
Gives you instant hot water and uses little energy. If you use
enough hot water the hot water from the main tank reheats the point
of use tank so it doesn't even need to heat the water.

Which introduces a big waste of energy all the time. The push button
pump system wastes none. It only warms the pipes when you are going
to use the hot water anyway.


Have you ever checked to see how much power is required to keep a well
insulated 5 gallon water heater hot?????? Likely about as much as to
run a circulating pump.

I seriously doubt that. A pump using less than an amp, running for 20 seconds a
couple time a day will use very little power, compared to ANY tank water heater.

On Wed, 23 Dec 2009 16:16:09 -0800, "Bob F"
wrote:

wrote:
On Sat, 12 Dec 2009 09:10:31 -0800, "Bob F"
wrote:

Van Chocstraw wrote:
mcp6453 wrote:
Home Depot is hawking a system for recirculating hot water such
that each faucet in the home has instant hot water. Does anyone
have any comments, good or bad, about these?

Another energy wasting idea from the fuel companies.

What you need is a small 6 gallon point of use tank under the sink.
Gives you instant hot water and uses little energy. If you use
enough hot water the hot water from the main tank reheats the point
of use tank so it doesn't even need to heat the water.

Which introduces a big waste of energy all the time. The push button
pump system wastes none. It only warms the pipes when you are going
to use the hot water anyway.


Have you ever checked to see how much power is required to keep a well
insulated 5 gallon water heater hot?????? Likely about as much as to
run a circulating pump.

I seriously doubt that. A pump using less than an amp, running for 20 seconds a
couple time a day will use very little power, compared to ANY tank water heater.

But most of the systems are NOT push-button on-demand circulators.
And the non-push-button-on-demand systems not only draw constant power
running the circulating pump, they also lose heat from the entire
circulation loop constantly, meaning the water heater needs to run
more.

They are definitely a convenience, but they most certainly are NOT an
energy saver.

The push button type? Yes. But the complexity of the required plumbing
for a retrofit is significant. The aditional small volume heater is a
simple install, and NOT a huge energy waste. - and CAN be set up to
run on a timer so you have hot water at , say, bath time.