Not being an electrician, I often find it difficult dressing wires to
electrical outlets in boxes. In particular, it is hard to get two #14 or
#12 around the same outlet screw reliably. Recently I found the Cooper
BR20V outlet that has compression type fittings for the wires. It is a
dream to wire.

Here is my dumb question: Is there a code problem with using a 20A
socket in a 15A circuit? I assume not, but I thought I would ask.

These things are about $3 each. Does anyone know of a cheap source?

"Wayne Whitney" wrote in message
...
On 2009-11-30, mcp6453 wrote:

In particular, it is hard to get two #14 or #12 around the same
outlet screw reliably.

That's because you are only supposed to terminate one wire at an
outlet screw. If you need to terminate two wires, you either use both
screws with one wire each, or you pigtail.

Recently I found the Cooper BR20V outlet that has compression type
fittings for the wires. It is a dream to wire.

Yes, I highly recommend the compression plate type backwire
receptacles.

Here is my dumb question: Is there a code problem with using a 20A
socket in a 15A circuit? I assume not, but I thought I would ask.

If by 20A socket you mean a receptacle that accepts a 20A plug, then
yes, that would be a violation, unless it is a single receptacle that
is the only receptacle on the circuit.

Cheers, Wayne

You're thinking 15 amp receptacle, on 20 amp circuit. OP wants 20 amp
receptacle on 15 amp circuit

On 2009-11-30, RBM wrote:

"Wayne Whitney" wrote in message

If by 20A socket you mean a receptacle that accepts a 20A plug, then
yes, that would be a violation, unless it is a single receptacle that
is the only receptacle on the circuit.

You're thinking 15 amp receptacle, on 20 amp circuit. OP wants 20 amp
receptacle on 15 amp circuit

Oddly, if you have an individual branch circuit with only a single
receptacle on it, the only NEC restriction is that the receptacle
rating matches or exceeds the branch circuit rating, as per
210.21(B)(1). Only if there is more than one receptacle on the
circuit (or a duplex receptacle) do the requirements of 210.21(B)(3)
kick in, which prohibts a 20A receptacle on a 15A branch circuit.

Cheers, Wayne

"Wayne Whitney" wrote in message
...
On 2009-11-30, RBM wrote:

"Wayne Whitney" wrote in message

If by 20A socket you mean a receptacle that accepts a 20A plug, then
yes, that would be a violation, unless it is a single receptacle that
is the only receptacle on the circuit.

You're thinking 15 amp receptacle, on 20 amp circuit. OP wants 20 amp
receptacle on 15 amp circuit

Oddly, if you have an individual branch circuit with only a single
receptacle on it, the only NEC restriction is that the receptacle
rating matches or exceeds the branch circuit rating, as per
210.21(B)(1). Only if there is more than one receptacle on the
circuit (or a duplex receptacle) do the requirements of 210.21(B)(3)
kick in, which prohibts a 20A receptacle on a 15A branch circuit.

Cheers, Wayne

Correctamundo, I read it three times, as I was sure I must be misreading it.
It does seem strange that they would allow you to underrate a receptacle.
Certainly no danger, just a matter of perception. To me, it would make sense
that a 50 amp receptacle should be expected to power a 50 amp appliance, and
not be connected to a 15 amp circuit

Chip C wrote:
On Nov 30, 12:49 pm, mcp6453 wrote:
Not being an electrician, I often find it difficult dressing wires to
electrical outlets in boxes. In particular, it is hard to get two #14 or
#12 around the same outlet screw reliably. Recently I found the Cooper
BR20V outlet that has compression type fittings for the wires. It is a
dream to wire.

I'm pretty sure screw terminals generally are designed to take only
one wire under each screw, with the occasional well-marked exception.
So what you're finding difficult, you're not supposed to be doing.

One way (the best way? the code-compliant way?) around this is to
"pigtail" your wires with a wirenut inside the box, and connect only
one black and one white wire to the outlet. Yes, this does take more
space in the box. The idea is that if one outlet connection becomes
loose, it doesn't make the whole downstream part of the circuit flaky;
and you can replace an outlet in the future without disturbing the
wiring that feeds the rest of the circuit.

It *may* be code-compliant (unsure about how much codes vary from
place to place within the US and Canada) to connect one wire under
each of the two screws on the outlet, so that the downstream load
passes through the outlet side plate. Obviously, doesn't work if
you're branching off to two downstream legs.

I agree that back-wired outlets, in which the screws are used to
compress plates that you've inserted the wires into, are brilliant. I
try to use them exclusively.

Here is my dumb question: Is there a code problem with using a 20A
socket in a 15A circuit? I assume not, but I thought I would ask.

There is a big code problem with using a 5-20 type outlet on a circuit
wired with 14-ga wire. You gotta stick with 5-15-type outlets (and of
course 15-A breakers) on 14-ga wiring.

Luckily, your new favourite outlet has a little brother, the BR15. See
http://www.cooperwiringdevices.com/p...br20v&keyword=

These things are about $3 each. Does anyone know of a cheap source?

You can get commercial-grade backwired Cooper outlets for 3 bucks?
Dang!

Call around some electrical supply places out of the Yellow Pages and
see what you can get a box of 10 for.

I just finished a living room reno in which I used a different Cooper
outlet, with plastic guards that cover the terminals, in case your
kids slide something in under a loose cover plate. I think I paid like
CAD $12 each for them, box of 10.

It's well worth the extra bucks for a commercial-grade device, not
only for the back wiring but it'll keep a better grasp on plugs even
after long heavy use. Considering your own time, your investment in
tools, your bashed knuckles (is that only me?), going for the 49¢
outlet really makes no sense.

Chip C
Toronto

I found the 15s at Lowes for $1.89 each, so I bought a pack of 10. I really like
these outlets. Now to get some prior messes cleaned up.

While I was there, I also bought some green grounding wire nuts, with the hole
in the top. That seems like a neat idea.

Wayne Whitney wrote:
On 2009-11-30, RBM wrote:

"Wayne Whitney" wrote in message

If by 20A socket you mean a receptacle that accepts a 20A plug, then
yes, that would be a violation, unless it is a single receptacle that
is the only receptacle on the circuit.
You're thinking 15 amp receptacle, on 20 amp circuit. OP wants 20 amp
receptacle on 15 amp circuit

Oddly, if you have an individual branch circuit with only a single
receptacle on it, the only NEC restriction is that the receptacle
rating matches or exceeds the branch circuit rating, as per
210.21(B)(1). Only if there is more than one receptacle on the
circuit (or a duplex receptacle) do the requirements of 210.21(B)(3)
kick in, which prohibts a 20A receptacle on a 15A branch circuit.

Cheers, Wayne

Seems odd that a single 20A receptacle on a 15A ckt is not covered in
those sections. It is covered in 406.3-A. A single 20A receptacle on a
15A ckt is a violation.

There appears to still be a hole in that if there is no ground you can
replace a single receptacle on a 15A circuit with a 20A receptacle with
no ground. It is a much more limited hole. The intent is clearly that
this not be done.

--
bud--

On 2009-12-01, bud-- wrote:

Seems odd that a single 20A receptacle on a 15A ckt is not covered
in those sections. It is covered in 406.3-A. A single 20A receptacle
on a 15A ckt is a violation.

Thanks for the pointer! Wayne

"bud--" wrote in message
.. .
Wayne Whitney wrote:
On 2009-11-30, RBM wrote:

"Wayne Whitney" wrote in message
If by 20A socket you mean a receptacle that accepts a 20A plug, then
yes, that would be a violation, unless it is a single receptacle that
is the only receptacle on the circuit.
You're thinking 15 amp receptacle, on 20 amp circuit. OP wants 20 amp
receptacle on 15 amp circuit

Oddly, if you have an individual branch circuit with only a single
receptacle on it, the only NEC restriction is that the receptacle
rating matches or exceeds the branch circuit rating, as per
210.21(B)(1). Only if there is more than one receptacle on the
circuit (or a duplex receptacle) do the requirements of 210.21(B)(3)
kick in, which prohibts a 20A receptacle on a 15A branch circuit.

Cheers, Wayne

Seems odd that a single 20A receptacle on a 15A ckt is not covered in
those sections. It is covered in 406.3-A. A single 20A receptacle on a 15A
ckt is a violation.

There appears to still be a hole in that if there is no ground you can
replace a single receptacle on a 15A circuit with a 20A receptacle with no
ground. It is a much more limited hole. The intent is clearly that this
not be done.

--
bud--

Thanks Bud, that makes more sense, strange that it isn't indicated in 210

"bud--" wrote in message
.. .
Wayne Whitney wrote:
On 2009-11-30, RBM wrote:

"Wayne Whitney" wrote in message
If by 20A socket you mean a receptacle that accepts a 20A plug, then
yes, that would be a violation, unless it is a single receptacle that
is the only receptacle on the circuit.
You're thinking 15 amp receptacle, on 20 amp circuit. OP wants 20 amp
receptacle on 15 amp circuit

Oddly, if you have an individual branch circuit with only a single
receptacle on it, the only NEC restriction is that the receptacle
rating matches or exceeds the branch circuit rating, as per
210.21(B)(1). Only if there is more than one receptacle on the
circuit (or a duplex receptacle) do the requirements of 210.21(B)(3)
kick in, which prohibts a 20A receptacle on a 15A branch circuit.

Cheers, Wayne

Seems odd that a single 20A receptacle on a 15A ckt is not covered in
those sections. It is covered in 406.3-A. A single 20A receptacle on a 15A
ckt is a violation.

There appears to still be a hole in that if there is no ground you can
replace a single receptacle on a 15A circuit with a 20A receptacle with no
ground. It is a much more limited hole. The intent is clearly that this
not be done.

--
bud--

Thanks Bud, that makes more sense, strange that it isn't indicated in 210