I live in an old lowrise apartment that doesn't have any
proper electrical grounding, although several outlets are 3 pronged. I
want to use an air conditioner in the summer, but I'm concerned about
the potential safety hazard.

For personal safety, you can replace the non grounded outlets with GFCI
outlets. They may come with a sticker to attach to the plate that marks them
as ungrounded


"Jeff Sapocinik" wrote in message
ups.com...
I live in an old lowrise apartment that doesn't have any
proper electrical grounding, although several outlets are 3 pronged. I
want to use an air conditioner in the summer, but I'm concerned about
the potential safety hazard.

"Jeff Sapocinik" wrote in message
ups.com...
I live in an old lowrise apartment that doesn't have any
proper electrical grounding, although several outlets are 3 pronged. I
want to use an air conditioner in the summer, but I'm concerned about
the potential safety hazard.

More important is the current rating of the outlet and the current demand of
the air conditioner.

depending on your insulation in the walls and your climate, your choice
of air conditioner for a window could be as low as 5 amps for a 5000btu
air conditioner. an energy star rating gives you more cooling per
dollar of electricity. your outlet is probably one of several that
share a 15 amp circuit. why not explore this by opening the
breaker/fuse panel and see how they are numbered, then number each
outlet and switchplate in your apartment. this way you will know not to
run a microwave on the toaster circuit and not to make coffee when the
air conditioner is running on that same circuit, for example.
consult the air conditioner installation instructions/manual; large air
conditioners want to be on their own circuit as does any major
appliance. do not buy a 110volt air conditioner that won't fit in the
window opening. don't buy a 20 amp air conditioner if your fusebox only
has 15 amp breakers. talk to someone else in your apartments with the
same sun exposure who has an air conditioner: do they like it, does it
cool the room on the hottest day, what size would they buy next time,
if it cools down the room in 15 minutes on a hot day or if it takes 2
hours for its size.

Jeff Sapocinik wrote:
I live in an old lowrise apartment that doesn't have any
proper electrical grounding, although several outlets are 3 pronged. I
want to use an air conditioner in the summer, but I'm concerned about
the potential safety hazard.

what good is a gfci that is ungrounded
it won't even trip the damn thing
stop giving useless advice.




"RBM" rbm2(remove wrote in message
...
For personal safety, you can replace the non grounded outlets with GFCI
outlets. They may come with a sticker to attach to the plate that marks
them as ungrounded


"Jeff Sapocinik" wrote in message
ups.com...
I live in an old lowrise apartment that doesn't have any
proper electrical grounding, although several outlets are 3 pronged. I
want to use an air conditioner in the summer, but I'm concerned about
the potential safety hazard.

install a ground wire "pigtail" to the metal box
and check to see if the panel is grounded.


"Jeff Sapocinik" wrote in message
ups.com...
I live in an old lowrise apartment that doesn't have any
proper electrical grounding, although several outlets are 3 pronged. I
want to use an air conditioner in the summer, but I'm concerned about
the potential safety hazard.

electrical inspector wrote:
what good is a gfci that is ungrounded
it won't even trip the damn thing
stop giving useless advice.

Bull****

Personally I tire of hearing about ungrounded outlets. Reality check;
my bet is that well over half of the dwellings in the U.S. have
ungrounded outlets, and people have lived long full lives in them. I'll
also bet that your chances of actually having a fatal or even
debilitating shock are up there with winning the lottery and getting
struck by lightning. This is all just hype, part of the lowest common
denominator, lets idiot proof everything thing. I say lets thin out the
gene pool, why let idiots live to reproduce more idiots.

Eric in North TX wrote:
electrical inspector wrote:
what good is a gfci that is ungrounded
it won't even trip the damn thing
stop giving useless advice.

Bull****


Yeah, amazing too when the guy uses the name "electrical inspector",
which he obviously isn;t. Of course a GFCI will work and trip in an
ungrounded outlet. In fact a GFCI will make what was an ungrounded
outlet safer than a regular grounded outlet without GFCI.

I also agree with the other advice given, ie to figure out the current
rating of the circuit, what else is on it, etc, as that may present a
bigger issue.

wrote in message
ups.com...

Eric in North TX wrote:
electrical inspector wrote:
what good is a gfci that is ungrounded
it won't even trip the damn thing
stop giving useless advice.

Bull****


Yeah, amazing too when the guy uses the name "electrical inspector",
which he obviously isn;t. Of course a GFCI will work and trip in an
ungrounded outlet. In fact a GFCI will make what was an ungrounded
outlet safer than a regular grounded outlet without GFCI.

I also agree with the other advice given, ie to figure out the current
rating of the circuit, what else is on it, etc, as that may present a
bigger issue.



what a knob of coarse it will trip
the question is are you trippin?

Actually, with a GFCI you don't HAVE to have a ground wire. In fact,
according to the National Electrical Code, you can use a GFCI to replace a
two wire outlet, so long as you label it as such. It will protect the
outlet from lethal shocks but it will not provide a ground connection at the
third prong.


you have to watch these imbeciles in ahr
it is like a meeting of the mindless.

Eric in North TX wrote:
Personally I tire of hearing about ungrounded outlets. Reality check;
my bet is that well over half of the dwellings in the U.S. have
ungrounded outlets, and people have lived long full lives in them. I'll
also bet that your chances of actually having a fatal or even
debilitating shock are up there with winning the lottery and getting
struck by lightning. This is all just hype, part of the lowest common
denominator, lets idiot proof everything thing. I say lets thin out the
gene pool, why let idiots live to reproduce more idiots.

well over the years I have haD SOME APPLIANCES INTERNALLY SHORT TO
GROUND, PRIMARILY WIRES BURNING OFF AND HITTING THE FRAME

anyhow if these werent grounded someone could of gotten a lethal
shock......... children and elderly are espically at risk.

I also see this in my business I repair offce machines primarily roll
laminators. At least once a month a wire burns off a switch or
similiar.

ground has indeed saved lives

Thanks for your advice!

Eric in North TX wrote:
Personally I tire of hearing about ungrounded outlets. Reality check;
my bet is that well over half of the dwellings in the U.S. have
ungrounded outlets, and people have lived long full lives in them. I'll
also bet that your chances of actually having a fatal or even
debilitating shock are up there with winning the lottery and getting
struck by lightning. This is all just hype, part of the lowest common
denominator, lets idiot proof everything thing. I say lets thin out the
gene pool, why let idiots live to reproduce more idiots.

"Eric in North TX" wrote in message
ups.com...

Personally I tire of hearing about ungrounded outlets. Reality check;
my bet is that well over half of the dwellings in the U.S. have
ungrounded outlets, and people have lived long full lives in them. I'll
also bet that your chances of actually having a fatal or even
debilitating shock are up there with winning the lottery and getting
struck by lightning. This is all just hype, part of the lowest common
denominator, lets idiot proof everything thing. I say lets thin out the
gene pool, why let idiots live to reproduce more idiots.


Because then there would be no one left to post some of the more entertaining questions to
alt.home.repair....

GFCI devices do not need to be attached to a grounding conductor to work,
and I'm sure, as an "electrical inspector" (lol) you are aware on NEC
406.3-D 3(B), which specifically allows them as replacements for non
grounded receptacles


"electrical inspector" wrote in message
...
what good is a gfci that is ungrounded
it won't even trip the damn thing
stop giving useless advice.




"RBM" rbm2(remove wrote in message
...
For personal safety, you can replace the non grounded outlets with GFCI
outlets. They may come with a sticker to attach to the plate that marks
them as ungrounded


"Jeff Sapocinik" wrote in message
ups.com...
I live in an old lowrise apartment that doesn't have any
proper electrical grounding, although several outlets are 3 pronged. I
want to use an air conditioner in the summer, but I'm concerned about
the potential safety hazard.

Eric in North TX wrote:
Personally I tire of hearing about ungrounded outlets. Reality check;
my bet is that well over half of the dwellings in the U.S. have
ungrounded outlets, and people have lived long full lives in them.
I'll also bet that your chances of actually having a fatal or even
debilitating shock are up there with winning the lottery and getting
struck by lightning. This is all just hype, part of the lowest common
denominator, lets idiot proof everything thing. I say lets thin out
the gene pool, why let idiots live to reproduce more idiots.

You're right! But, won't there be ANYONE who will miss you when you're
gone? Poor tadpole!

Pop`

wrote:
Eric in North TX wrote:
Personally I tire of hearing about ungrounded outlets. Reality check;
my bet is that well over half of the dwellings in the U.S. have
ungrounded outlets, and people have lived long full lives in them.
I'll also bet that your chances of actually having a fatal or even
debilitating shock are up there with winning the lottery and getting
struck by lightning. This is all just hype, part of the lowest common
denominator, lets idiot proof everything thing. I say lets thin out
the gene pool, why let idiots live to reproduce more idiots.

well over the years I have haD SOME APPLIANCES INTERNALLY SHORT TO
GROUND, PRIMARILY WIRES BURNING OFF AND HITTING THE FRAME

anyhow if these werent grounded someone could of gotten a lethal
shock......... children and elderly are espically at risk.

I also see this in my business I repair offce machines primarily roll
laminators. At least once a month a wire burns off a switch or
similiar.

ground has indeed saved lives

"could of"? could have
"espically"? especially
"business I"? business. I
"office"? office
"ground"? Ground

YOU have a "business offce"? Wow!

Your main concern here I would say should be the size air conditioner you
are planning on plugging in and the other loads on the circuit that your air
conditioner will be on the line with. Chances are that the circuit will be
confined to your apartment and not shared with another so you should have
control over what is on at the same time. That said the circuit is most
likely 15 Amp however you might check to see for sure and don't use so large
an air conditioner that it will tax your wiring.

As far as grounding is concerned many older homes lack good grounding and it
hasn't caused a problem. The GFCI outlet is a good idea also as the GFCI
monitors the current on the Hot and Neutral lines and if there is an
imbalance in the current between the two wires (Hot & Neutral) as small as 4
to 5 milliamps imbalance then it trips the circuit. This protects you if
there is a shock situation where part of the return current seeks to pass
through your body back. What is dangerous is when you have someone that
doesn't know about electricity wire from outlet to outlet and reverse wires
in the process. When one outlet is wired with Hot and Neutral reversed to
the next outlet setting up an electrocution potential if say you touched a
lamp while touching the Air Conditioner at the same time. In circuits that
are grounded the Neutral and Ground are tied together at the Breaker Box and
therefore are at the same potential, for 110 or 115 VAC circuits. If a
three prong outlet is wired correctly and you take a voltmeter you should
read no voltage from the ground hole (round hole) to the Neutral hole which
is the longer or larger of the two vertical slots. The smaller vertical
slot or shorter slot in the plug should be tied to the Hot wire and from
either neutral (longer vertical slot) to shorter slot (Hot) you should read
your 110 Volts or from the Ground Lug (round hole) to the shorter vertical
slot the same 110 Volts... That is when you have a properly grounded plug.


On 12/21/06 5:52 PM, in article
, "Jeff Sapocinik"
wrote:

I live in an old lowrise apartment that doesn't have any
proper electrical grounding, although several outlets are 3 pronged. I
want to use an air conditioner in the summer, but I'm concerned about
the potential safety hazard.