Our 55 year-old house still runs on fuses . We have never upgraded to
a circuit breaker . We hardly ever blow fuses (it's been years
actually). We even run our heater and air conditioner off an
individual fuse box installed 25 years ago. We have an electrician
coming out to give us an estimate to upgrade to a circuit breaker, but
since we've made the appointment we've heard from two people who say
fuses are better and why bother spending the money if we don't have
any problems. Thoughts ?

Jeffy3 wrote:
Our 55 year-old house still runs on fuses . We have never upgraded to
a circuit breaker . We hardly ever blow fuses (it's been years
actually). We even run our heater and air conditioner off an
individual fuse box installed 25 years ago. We have an electrician
coming out to give us an estimate to upgrade to a circuit breaker,...

OK, _WHY_ did you do this, then?

Unless you're intending or needing to upgrade service from (say) 100 to
200A in view of an impending remodeling or other anticipated increased
loading or also replacing a 2-wire system w/ 3, what's the point?

--

On Nov 2, 10:12*am, Jeffy3 wrote:
Our 55 year-old house still runs on fuses . We have never upgraded to
a circuit breaker . We hardly ever blow fuses (it's been years
actually). We even run our heater and air conditioner off an
individual fuse box installed 25 years ago. We have an electrician
coming out to give us an estimate to upgrade to a circuit breaker, but
since we've made the appointment we've heard from two people who say
fuses are better and why bother spending the money if we don't have
any problems. *Thoughts ?

"we've heard from two people who say fuses are better"

Did they say why or was it just a statement that you didn't challange?

I'm not saying they're wrong, but I would certainly have asked them
for their reasoning.

On Nov 2, 10:20*am, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Nov 2, 10:12*am, Jeffy3 wrote:

Our 55 year-old house still runs on fuses . We have never upgraded to
a circuit breaker . We hardly ever blow fuses (it's been years
actually). We even run our heater and air conditioner off an
individual fuse box installed 25 years ago. We have an electrician
coming out to give us an estimate to upgrade to a circuit breaker, but
since we've made the appointment we've heard from two people who say
fuses are better and why bother spending the money if we don't have
any problems. *Thoughts ?

"we've heard from two people who say fuses are better"

Did they say why or was it just a statement that you didn't challange?

I'm not saying they're wrong, but I would certainly have asked them
for their reasoning.

Ive never seen a fuse fail to blow when it was supposed to, I have
never seen a fuse leave a circuit hot when I pulled it. I wish I could
say the same was true of breakers. I ve never seen anyone put a penny
behind a breaker either so they both have their advantages and
disadvantages.

Jimmie.

dpb wrote:
Jeffy3 wrote:
Our 55 year-old house still runs on fuses . We have never upgraded
to a circuit breaker . We hardly ever blow fuses (it's been years
actually). We even run our heater and air conditioner off an
individual fuse box installed 25 years ago. We have an electrician
coming out to give us an estimate to upgrade to a circuit
breaker,...

OK, _WHY_ did you do this, then?

Unless you're intending or needing to upgrade service from (say) 100
to 200A in view of an impending remodeling or other anticipated
increased loading or also replacing a 2-wire system w/ 3, what's the
point?

Agreed. Unless your fuse panel is failing, rusting, has broken parts, or
lack of capacity, I would vote to stay with it. I don't think new fuse
panels are made, so any replacement would have to be a circuit breaker
panel.

EXT wrote:
....
... I don't think new fuse panels are made, ...

Yeah, I was astounded to recently discover that appears to be the case
that there are apparently _none_ other than for very large industrial
applications any longer available. (I wasn't needing/wanting
particularly, just curious after somebody else had made the comment and
thought surely they could be had still even though not used much in new
construction.)

--

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...
On Nov 2, 10:12 am, Jeffy3 wrote:
Our 55 year-old house still runs on fuses . We have never upgraded to
a circuit breaker . We hardly ever blow fuses (it's been years
actually). We even run our heater and air conditioner off an
individual fuse box installed 25 years ago. We have an electrician
coming out to give us an estimate to upgrade to a circuit breaker, but
since we've made the appointment we've heard from two people who say
fuses are better and why bother spending the money if we don't have
any problems. Thoughts ?

"we've heard from two people who say fuses are better"

Did they say why or was it just a statement that you didn't challange?

I'm not saying they're wrong, but I would certainly have asked them
for their reasoning.

I'm not going to jump on any bandwagon one way or other, but what I will say
is that his old fuse box probably contains a high quality copper bus, and
most likely the replacement that he would end up with these days would not.
I sure some of you have seen loose fitting breakers corroding at the bus
because of the crappy materials and manufacturing shortcuts used too often
these days. But I could say that about a good many things besides
fuse/breaker boxes..................................

On the other hand, if he ever goes to sell, he will wish he had kept up
with some of the modernizing that almost everyone has done over the
years.....................

How's that for undecided?
:-?

Lefty

On Nov 2, 10:20*am, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Nov 2, 10:12*am, Jeffy3 wrote:

Our 55 year-old house still runs on fuses . We have never upgraded to
a circuit breaker . We hardly ever blow fuses (it's been years
actually). We even run our heater and air conditioner off an
individual fuse box installed 25 years ago. We have an electrician
coming out to give us an estimate to upgrade to a circuit breaker, but
since we've made the appointment we've heard from two people who say
fuses are better and why bother spending the money if we don't have
any problems. *Thoughts ?

"we've heard from two people who say fuses are better"

Did they say why or was it just a statement that you didn't challange?

I'm not saying they're wrong, but I would certainly have asked them
for their reasoning.

Both were told that by their electrician so it was second hand. They
couldn't specifically state the reason. We're not planning on selling
so maybe I'll leave things be. I appreciate everyone's thoughts.

\

Unless you're intending or needing to upgrade service from (say) 100 to
200A in view of an impending remodeling or other anticipated increased
loading or also replacing a 2-wire system w/ 3, what's the point?

--

Most people in our neighborhood switched over so I just assumed there
was a good reason for it, i.e. safety.

Jeffy3 wrote:
Our 55 year-old house still runs on fuses . We have never upgraded to
a circuit breaker . We hardly ever blow fuses (it's been years
actually). We even run our heater and air conditioner off an
individual fuse box installed 25 years ago. We have an electrician
coming out to give us an estimate to upgrade to a circuit breaker, but
since we've made the appointment we've heard from two people who say
fuses are better and why bother spending the money if we don't have
any problems. Thoughts ?
Hi,
Fuse or breaker there are many different kinds. Only difference is you
can reset a breaker. You can't with fuse. Once it's blown, you replace it.

On Nov 2, 11:24*am, dpb wrote:
EXT wrote:

...

... I don't think new fuse panels are made, ...

Yeah, I was astounded to recently discover that appears to be the case
that there are apparently _none_ other than for very large industrial
applications any longer available. *(I wasn't needing/wanting
particularly, just curious after somebody else had made the comment and
thought surely they could be had still even though not used much in new
construction.)

--

"I was astounded ...thought surely they could be had still even
though not used much in new construction."

I, on the other hand, am not in the least suprised.

If I look at this from a supply and demand perspective, I can't see
enough demand to justify the cost of maintaining a manufacturing line
and/or storage facility for fuse boxes.

If there is an alternative device available (i.e. the circuit breaker
box) that will fit both new construction and upgrades/add-on
situations, it's cheaper to manufacture and store just the one device.

dpb wrote:

Jeffy3 wrote:
Our 55 year-old house still runs on fuses . We have never upgraded to
a circuit breaker . We hardly ever blow fuses (it's been years
actually). We even run our heater and air conditioner off an
individual fuse box installed 25 years ago. We have an electrician
coming out to give us an estimate to upgrade to a circuit breaker,...

OK, _WHY_ did you do this, then?

Unless you're intending or needing to upgrade service from (say) 100 to
200A in view of an impending remodeling or other anticipated increased
loading or also replacing a 2-wire system w/ 3, what's the point?

--

Possibly because they aren't blowing fuses since someone has already
overfused the old panel and it's a fire waiting to happen? A single 30A
edison base fuse feeding several 14ga circuits isn't exactly uncommon on
some old panels.

DerbyDad03 wrote:
....

"I was astounded ...thought surely they could be had still even
though not used much in new construction."

I, on the other hand, am not in the least suprised.
....
Well, I'm happy for you...

"astounded" was over the top to describe actual discovery
undoubtedly--"somewhat surprised" more nearly.

While your market analysis is generally true, I figured there would be a
continuing-enough demand there would have been _somebody_ still making
them....

--

Jeffy3 wrote:
Our 55 year-old house still runs on fuses . We have never upgraded to
a circuit breaker . We hardly ever blow fuses (it's been years
actually). We even run our heater and air conditioner off an
individual fuse box installed 25 years ago. We have an electrician
coming out to give us an estimate to upgrade to a circuit breaker, but
since we've made the appointment we've heard from two people who say
fuses are better and why bother spending the money if we don't have
any problems. Thoughts ?

An alternative is to install a breaker-box yourself. You can get everything
you need at the box store and, with an afternoon's* work, you should be able
to swap out the fuse box for a 200 Amp service.

Should cost about $300.

----
* Depending on how far you are from the hardware store for forgotten
items...

On Nov 2, 12:27*pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
Jeffy3 wrote:
Our 55 year-old house still runs on fuses . We have never upgraded to
a circuit breaker . We hardly ever blow fuses (it's been years
actually). We even run our heater and air conditioner off an
individual fuse box installed 25 years ago. We have an electrician
coming out to give us an estimate to upgrade to a circuit breaker, but
since we've made the appointment we've heard from two people who say
fuses are better and why bother spending the money if we don't have
any problems. *Thoughts ?

An alternative is to install a breaker-box yourself. You can get everything
you need at the box store and, with an afternoon's* work, you should be able
to swap out the fuse box for a 200 Amp service.

Should cost about $300.

----
* Depending on how far you are from the hardware store for forgotten
items...

Man, WTF is up with you and bad advice? Is this some childish attempt
to be funny?

The OP has fuses. The odds of him having 200 amp service is remote.
You have no idea of his service, you have no idea of his capabilities,
he already mentioned that he was having an electrician to come out and
give a price for changing the panel - so, what exactly are you doing
besides ignoring his question and running off at the mouth?

Stop it. It's dangerous. Pick some question that is more up your
alley and doesn't have life-threatening consequences. Maybe painting
barn scenes on hand saw blades or making clocks out of circular saw
blades.

R

HeyBub wrote:

An alternative is to install a breaker-box yourself. You can get
everything you need at the box store and, with an afternoon's* work,
you should be able to swap out the fuse box for a 200 Amp service.

Should cost about $300.

Around here, as I suspect is the case in most areas, that would mean having
the utility come out to disconnect main power and then come back out to
reconnect it, and they won't reconnect it without a licensed electrician
signing off on the work.

Those three charges would need to be added to your $300 estimate.

Jon

Jeffy3 wrote:

Both were told that by their electrician so it was second hand. They
couldn't specifically state the reason. We're not planning on selling
so maybe I'll leave things be. I appreciate everyone's thoughts.

You mean the guy making money for doing the job said that giving him work is
the best solution?

Jon

On Nov 2, 12:38*pm, RicodJour wrote:
On Nov 2, 12:27*pm, "HeyBub" wrote:





Jeffy3 wrote:
Our 55 year-old house still runs on fuses . We have never upgraded to
a circuit breaker . We hardly ever blow fuses (it's been years
actually). We even run our heater and air conditioner off an
individual fuse box installed 25 years ago. We have an electrician
coming out to give us an estimate to upgrade to a circuit breaker, but
since we've made the appointment we've heard from two people who say
fuses are better and why bother spending the money if we don't have
any problems. *Thoughts ?

An alternative is to install a breaker-box yourself. You can get everything
you need at the box store and, with an afternoon's* work, you should be able
to swap out the fuse box for a 200 Amp service.

Should cost about $300.

----
* Depending on how far you are from the hardware store for forgotten
items...

Man, WTF is up with you and bad advice? *Is this some childish attempt
to be funny?

The OP has fuses. *The odds of him having 200 amp service is remote.
You have no idea of his service, you have no idea of his capabilities,
he already mentioned that he was having an electrician to come out and
give a price for changing the panel - so, what exactly are you doing
besides ignoring his question and running off at the mouth?

Stop it. *It's dangerous. *Pick some question that is more up your
alley and doesn't have life-threatening consequences. *Maybe painting
barn scenes on hand saw blades or making clocks out of circular saw
blades.

R- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

"making clocks out of circular saw blades."

I've got one of those!

I set my alarm clock for 1:59 AM Sunday morning so I could set my
clocks back at the correct hour, stumbled into the shop all groggy and
cut myself on the clock.

The stiches come out in a week or so.

On Nov 2, 12:46*pm, "Jon Danniken"
wrote:
Jeffy3 wrote:

Both were told that by their electrician so it was second hand. They
couldn't specifically state the reason. We're not planning on selling
so maybe I'll leave things be. I appreciate everyone's thoughts.

You mean the guy making money for doing the job said that giving him work is
the best solution?

Jon

Re-read the OP. Both of those people were told that *fuses* were
better therefore the electrician was suggesting that they *don't* do
the swap.

At least that's how I put those 2 items together...

On Nov 2, 1:06*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Nov 2, 12:46*pm, "Jon Danniken"
wrote:

Jeffy3 wrote:

Both were told that by their electrician so it was second hand. They
couldn't specifically state the reason. We're not planning on selling
so maybe I'll leave things be. I appreciate everyone's thoughts.

You mean the guy making money for doing the job said that giving him work is
the best solution?

Jon

Re-read the OP. Both of those people were told that *fuses* were
better therefore the electrician was suggesting that they *don't* do
the swap.

At least that's how I put those 2 items together...

That is exactly what it is. And the electrician was a cousin of my
friend and he wasn't looking to do work that he didn't feel was
needed.

On Mon, 02 Nov 2009 09:39:10 -0700, Tony Hwang wrote:
Fuse or breaker there are many different kinds. Only difference is you
can reset a breaker. You can't with fuse. Once it's blown, you replace it.

Nah, you cut it open and solder a bit of wire across the break.

(Sad to say, I've seen it done - and the aftermath. But only with consumer
electronics luckily)

Jon Danniken wrote:

HeyBub wrote:

An alternative is to install a breaker-box yourself. You can get
everything you need at the box store and, with an afternoon's* work,
you should be able to swap out the fuse box for a 200 Amp service.

Should cost about $300.

Around here, as I suspect is the case in most areas, that would mean having
the utility come out to disconnect main power and then come back out to
reconnect it, and they won't reconnect it without a licensed electrician
signing off on the work.

Those three charges would need to be added to your $300 estimate.

Jon

The places I'm familiar with, an electrical permit and inspection by the
local building inspector are what is required. Nowhere is there a
requirement for a licensed electrician, and the utility does not charge
for the disconnect or reconnect.

wrote:

On Mon, 2 Nov 2009 07:12:55 -0800 (PST), Jeffy3
wrote:

Our 55 year-old house still runs on fuses . We have never upgraded to
a circuit breaker . We hardly ever blow fuses (it's been years
actually). We even run our heater and air conditioner off an
individual fuse box installed 25 years ago. We have an electrician
coming out to give us an estimate to upgrade to a circuit breaker, but
since we've made the appointment we've heard from two people who say
fuses are better and why bother spending the money if we don't have
any problems. Thoughts ?

If the fuses are properly sized they are safer than breakers because
they fail "open". A breaker can fail closed and provide no protection
(Google Federal Pacific and read the stories)
If you have the proper sized type S adapters and Type S fuses they
fully comply with the 2008 code. You could install one tomorrow in new
construction ... if someone made the panel.
Unfortunately a home inspector would flag fuses as a defect, but most
HIs are generally clueless when it comes to code and they state that
in their contract disclaimer.

Where do you find the necessary AFCI fuses for the bedroom circuits?

On Nov 2, 3:46*pm, "Pete C." wrote:
Jon Danniken wrote:

HeyBub wrote:

An alternative is to install a breaker-box yourself. You can get
everything you need at the box store and, with an afternoon's* work,
you should be able to swap out the fuse box for a 200 Amp service.

Should cost about $300.

Around here, as I suspect is the case in most areas, that would mean having
the utility come out to disconnect main power and then come back out to
reconnect it, and they won't reconnect it without a licensed electrician
signing off on the work.

Those three charges would need to be added to your $300 estimate.


The places I'm familiar with, an electrical permit and inspection by the
local building inspector are what is required. Nowhere is there a
requirement for a licensed electrician, and the utility does not charge
for the disconnect or reconnect.

Well, it's different around here. It's exactly the reverse, except
you could "forget" to pull a building permit and not get popped. The
electric company is quite specific in their requirements.

4.2 CHANGE OF SERVICE PROCEDURES
In recognition of the timing and coordination problems involved in the
disconnect and reconnect of simple single phase residential overhead
services, where modifications or upgrading of existing service
entrances are involved, the procedure known as LIPA CONNECTS is to be
used. The purpose of LIPA CONNECTS is to minimize the licensed
electrical contractor’s time and effort while affording them a measure
of protection by authorization to handle specific LIPA facilities
without fear of prosecution for tampering or diversion of current. It
will also provide the LIPA with a control mechanism and minimize the
estimating of unmetered consumption (Forms in front of
book).

It is entirely possible that your power company has a requirement that
is not enforced by your local building department, and thus you might
not be aware of it.

R

DerbyDad03 wrote:
Re-read the OP. Both of those people were told that *fuses* were
better therefore the electrician was suggesting that they *don't* do
the swap.

At least that's how I put those 2 items together...

Ah, gotcha, that makes more sense now.

Jon

Our 55 year-old house still runs on fuses . We have never upgraded to
a circuit breaker . We hardly ever blow fuses (it's been years
actually). We even run our heater and air conditioner off an
individual fuse box installed 25 years ago. We have an electrician
coming out to give us an estimate to upgrade to a circuit breaker, but
since we've made the appointment we've heard from two people who say
fuses are better and why bother spending the money if we don't have
any problems. Thoughts ?


*Circuit breakers are more convenient to reset than fuses. You may have
limited space for additional electrical circuits. You can install ground
fault or arc fault protection in a circuit breaker panel. The perception
that the electrical system is old and faulty by potential buyers. Even if
you have no immediate plans to sell, at some point your house will be put on
the market if not by you then your heirs. If no improvements have been made
over the years the property may just be purchased for land value only and a
new house will be erected.

A house built in the fifties may not have a grounded system of wiring. Two
prong receptacles are very outdated.

On Nov 2, 4:08*pm, "John Grabowski" wrote:
Our 55 year-old house still runs on fuses . We have never upgraded to
a circuit breaker . We hardly ever blow fuses (it's been years
actually). We even run our heater and air conditioner off an
individual fuse box installed 25 years ago. We have an electrician
coming out to give us an estimate to upgrade to a circuit breaker, but
since we've made the appointment we've heard from two people who say
fuses are better and why bother spending the money if we don't have
any problems. *Thoughts ?

*Circuit breakers are more convenient to reset than fuses. *You may have
limited space for additional electrical circuits. You can install ground
fault or arc fault protection in a circuit breaker panel. *The perception
that the electrical system is old and faulty by potential buyers. *Even if
you have no immediate plans to sell, at some point your house will be put on
the market if not by you then your heirs. *If no improvements have been made
over the years the property may just be purchased for land value only and a
new house will be erected.

A house built in the fifties may not have a grounded system of wiring. *Two
prong receptacles are very outdated.

I replaced the only fuse in my 50 year old house with a pushbuttton
fuse. It is in a little box on the power feed to my furnace, right
above the actual furnace. My local hardware store had pushbutton plug-
in breakers to replace various size fuses. But, I agree that unles
you are planning to sell your house, I would leave the fuses alone,
they are safer in my opinion.

Jon Danniken wrote:
HeyBub wrote:

An alternative is to install a breaker-box yourself. You can get
everything you need at the box store and, with an afternoon's* work,
you should be able to swap out the fuse box for a 200 Amp service.

Should cost about $300.

Around here, as I suspect is the case in most areas, that would mean
having the utility come out to disconnect main power and then come
back out to reconnect it, and they won't reconnect it without a
licensed electrician signing off on the work.

Those three charges would need to be added to your $300 estimate.


So true. I keep overlooking some (most?) live in benighted areas.

In my town, the sequence is:

* Call the power company to remove the meter seal. They will respond within
six hours.
* Do your stuff*
* Call the power company to return and restore the seal. They will respond
within twelve hours.

-------
* No permits, inspections, plans, approvals, or licensed anybody are
required.

wrote:

On Mon, 02 Nov 2009 15:46:55 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


wrote:

On Mon, 2 Nov 2009 07:12:55 -0800 (PST), Jeffy3
wrote:

Our 55 year-old house still runs on fuses . We have never upgraded to
a circuit breaker . We hardly ever blow fuses (it's been years
actually). We even run our heater and air conditioner off an
individual fuse box installed 25 years ago. We have an electrician
coming out to give us an estimate to upgrade to a circuit breaker, but
since we've made the appointment we've heard from two people who say
fuses are better and why bother spending the money if we don't have
any problems. Thoughts ?

If the fuses are properly sized they are safer than breakers because
they fail "open". A breaker can fail closed and provide no protection
(Google Federal Pacific and read the stories)
If you have the proper sized type S adapters and Type S fuses they
fully comply with the 2008 code. You could install one tomorrow in new
construction ... if someone made the panel.
Unfortunately a home inspector would flag fuses as a defect, but most
HIs are generally clueless when it comes to code and they state that
in their contract disclaimer.

Where do you find the necessary AFCI fuses for the bedroom circuits?

In that mythical "device" type AFCI that 210.12(B) ex1 alludes to.

... and that is virtually all receptacles now.

AFCI, not GFCI.

210.12(b) clearly states an AFCI circuit breaker listed to provide
protection to the *entire branch circuit*. A receptacle could never fill
that requirement.

RicodJour wrote:
On Nov 2, 12:27 pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
Jeffy3 wrote:
Our 55 year-old house still runs on fuses . We have never upgraded
to a circuit breaker . We hardly ever blow fuses (it's been years
actually). We even run our heater and air conditioner off an
individual fuse box installed 25 years ago. We have an electrician
coming out to give us an estimate to upgrade to a circuit breaker,
but since we've made the appointment we've heard from two people
who say fuses are better and why bother spending the money if we
don't have any problems. Thoughts ?

An alternative is to install a breaker-box yourself. You can get
everything you need at the box store and, with an afternoon's* work,
you should be able to swap out the fuse box for a 200 Amp service.

Should cost about $300.

----
* Depending on how far you are from the hardware store for forgotten
items...

Man, WTF is up with you and bad advice? Is this some childish attempt
to be funny?

The OP has fuses. The odds of him having 200 amp service is remote.
You have no idea of his service, you have no idea of his capabilities,
he already mentioned that he was having an electrician to come out and
give a price for changing the panel - so, what exactly are you doing
besides ignoring his question and running off at the mouth?

Stop it. It's dangerous. Pick some question that is more up your
alley and doesn't have life-threatening consequences. Maybe painting
barn scenes on hand saw blades or making clocks out of circular saw
blades.


Sorry I set you off.

First, I started my post with "An ALTERNATIVE is..."

Second, I suggested a 200 Amp service because the incremental cost between
that and a 60 Amp or 100 Amp service is trivial. Might as well have excess
capacity.

Third, it's NOT dangerous. Or complicated. Union people do it every day.

Fourth, while you are correct that I have no idea as to the OPs
capabilities, I presumed his hand would fit a screwdriver (which is the
extent of the skill-set that's required). If I erred in this assumption, I
apologize.

It IS up my alley inasmuch as I've done it. The first one I did, I had no
experience but the job was as straightforward as changing a ti cut the
power, remove the old apparatus, install the new, turn the power back on and
see if anything smokes. It took me and my son about five hours, what with
frequent beer breaks and all.

(Just kidding about the booze - although we DID have a beer when we
finished; sort of a celebration in saving about $1000 over what an
electrical company bid.)

"BQ340" wrote in message
...
Jeffy3 wrote:
Our 55 year-old house still runs on fuses . We have never upgraded to
a circuit breaker . We hardly ever blow fuses (it's been years
actually). We even run our heater and air conditioner off an
individual fuse box installed 25 years ago. We have an electrician
coming out to give us an estimate to upgrade to a circuit breaker, but
since we've made the appointment we've heard from two people who say
fuses are better and why bother spending the money if we don't have
any problems. Thoughts ?


Is/was there ever a fusebox that was larger than a 60 amp main?


*I have a customer with a Cutler Hammer circuit breaker panel that has 200
amp fuses as the main.



If it is working now & sized properly then it shouldnt be an issue till
you sell the house.

MikeB

HeyBub wrote:

RicodJour wrote:
On Nov 2, 12:27 pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
Jeffy3 wrote:
Our 55 year-old house still runs on fuses . We have never upgraded
to a circuit breaker . We hardly ever blow fuses (it's been years
actually). We even run our heater and air conditioner off an
individual fuse box installed 25 years ago. We have an electrician
coming out to give us an estimate to upgrade to a circuit breaker,
but since we've made the appointment we've heard from two people
who say fuses are better and why bother spending the money if we
don't have any problems. Thoughts ?

An alternative is to install a breaker-box yourself. You can get
everything you need at the box store and, with an afternoon's* work,
you should be able to swap out the fuse box for a 200 Amp service.

Should cost about $300.

----
* Depending on how far you are from the hardware store for forgotten
items...

Man, WTF is up with you and bad advice? Is this some childish attempt
to be funny?

The OP has fuses. The odds of him having 200 amp service is remote.
You have no idea of his service, you have no idea of his capabilities,
he already mentioned that he was having an electrician to come out and
give a price for changing the panel - so, what exactly are you doing
besides ignoring his question and running off at the mouth?

Stop it. It's dangerous. Pick some question that is more up your
alley and doesn't have life-threatening consequences. Maybe painting
barn scenes on hand saw blades or making clocks out of circular saw
blades.


Sorry I set you off.

First, I started my post with "An ALTERNATIVE is..."

Second, I suggested a 200 Amp service because the incremental cost between
that and a 60 Amp or 100 Amp service is trivial. Might as well have excess
capacity.

Third, it's NOT dangerous. Or complicated. Union people do it every day.

Fourth, while you are correct that I have no idea as to the OPs
capabilities, I presumed his hand would fit a screwdriver (which is the
extent of the skill-set that's required). If I erred in this assumption, I
apologize.

It IS up my alley inasmuch as I've done it. The first one I did, I had no
experience but the job was as straightforward as changing a ti cut the
power, remove the old apparatus, install the new, turn the power back on and
see if anything smokes. It took me and my son about five hours, what with
frequent beer breaks and all.

(Just kidding about the booze - although we DID have a beer when we
finished; sort of a celebration in saving about $1000 over what an
electrical company bid.)

I've done 8 or 9 panel replacement / upgrades so far, and in most cases
it is indeed quite easy. I've also done a quick panel upgrade 101 class
for a friend who subsequently replaced his panel without any issues.

It certainly isn't for everyone, but most people with some mechanical
aptitude and ability to read and comprehend reference material can do it
just fine.

Hmm, I think those qualification excluded 95% of the last couple
generations...

John Grabowski wrote:

"BQ340" wrote in message
...
Jeffy3 wrote:
Our 55 year-old house still runs on fuses . We have never upgraded to
a circuit breaker . We hardly ever blow fuses (it's been years
actually). We even run our heater and air conditioner off an
individual fuse box installed 25 years ago. We have an electrician
coming out to give us an estimate to upgrade to a circuit breaker, but
since we've made the appointment we've heard from two people who say
fuses are better and why bother spending the money if we don't have
any problems. Thoughts ?


Is/was there ever a fusebox that was larger than a 60 amp main?

*I have a customer with a Cutler Hammer circuit breaker panel that has 200
amp fuses as the main.

Interesting, is it actual 200A main fuses in the breaker panel, or is it
a 200A fused disconnect feeding a main lug breaker panel?



If it is working now & sized properly then it shouldnt be an issue till
you sell the house.

MikeB

Overall, I'd stay with the fuses, unless some big reason to
upgrade. Undecided? Maybe. I'll get back to you on that.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Lefty" wrote in message
...


I'm not going to jump on any bandwagon one way or other, but
what I will say
is that his old fuse box probably contains a high quality
copper bus, and
most likely the replacement that he would end up with these
days would not.
I sure some of you have seen loose fitting breakers
corroding at the bus
because of the crappy materials and manufacturing shortcuts
used too often
these days. But I could say that about a good many things
besides
fuse/breaker boxes..................................

On the other hand, if he ever goes to sell, he will wish he
had kept up
with some of the modernizing that almost everyone has done
over the
years.....................

How's that for undecided?
:-?

Lefty

On Nov 2, 9:12*am, Jeffy3 wrote:
Our 55 year-old house still runs on fuses . We have never upgraded to
a circuit breaker . We hardly ever blow fuses (it's been years
actually). We even run our heater and air conditioner off an
individual fuse box installed 25 years ago. We have an electrician
coming out to give us an estimate to upgrade to a circuit breaker, but
since we've made the appointment we've heard from two people who say
fuses are better and why bother spending the money if we don't have
any problems. *Thoughts ?

I grew up in a house with a fuse box, and it function just fine. The
exception being that my dad was a cabinet maker with a full shop in
the basement, so an occasional blown fuse was normal, and expected.
The main thing that made breaker boxes more desirable was the time you
blow more fuses than expected and have to trudge out to get more.
Murphy's law dictates that; it will only happen when it is raining or
snowing and after hours of most places that sell such.

On Nov 2, 6:03*pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
RicodJour wrote:
On Nov 2, 12:27 pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
Jeffy3 wrote:
Our 55 year-old house still runs on fuses . We have never upgraded
to a circuit breaker . We hardly ever blow fuses (it's been years
actually). We even run our heater and air conditioner off an
individual fuse box installed 25 years ago. We have an electrician
coming out to give us an estimate to upgrade to a circuit breaker,
but since we've made the appointment we've heard from two people
who say fuses are better and why bother spending the money if we
don't have any problems. Thoughts ?

An alternative is to install a breaker-box yourself. You can get
everything you need at the box store and, with an afternoon's* work,
you should be able to swap out the fuse box for a 200 Amp service.

Should cost about $300.

----
* Depending on how far you are from the hardware store for forgotten
items...

Man, WTF is up with you and bad advice? *Is this some childish attempt
to be funny?

The OP has fuses. *The odds of him having 200 amp service is remote.
You have no idea of his service, you have no idea of his capabilities,
he already mentioned that he was having an electrician to come out and
give a price for changing the panel - so, what exactly are you doing
besides ignoring his question and running off at the mouth?

Stop it. *It's dangerous. *Pick some question that is more up your
alley and doesn't have life-threatening consequences. *Maybe painting
barn scenes on hand saw blades or making clocks out of circular saw
blades.

Sorry I set you off.

First, I started my post with "An ALTERNATIVE is..."

Second, I suggested a 200 Amp service because the incremental cost between
that and a 60 Amp or 100 Amp service is trivial. Might as well have excess
capacity.

Third, it's NOT dangerous. Or complicated. Union people do it every day.

Fourth, while you are correct that I have no idea as to the OPs
capabilities, I presumed his hand would fit a screwdriver (which is the
extent of the skill-set that's required). If I erred in this assumption, I
apologize.

It IS up my alley inasmuch as I've done it. The first one I did, I had no
experience but the job was as straightforward as changing a ti cut the
power, remove the old apparatus, install the new, turn the power back on and
see if anything smokes. It took me and my son about five hours, what with
frequent beer breaks and all.

(Just kidding about the booze - although we DID have a beer when we
finished; sort of a celebration in saving about $1000 over what an
electrical company bid.)- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Fourth, while you are correct that I have no idea as to the OPs
capabilities, I presumed his hand would fit a screwdriver (which is
the extent of the skill-set that's required). If I erred in this
assumption, I apologize.

I think the error in your assumption is that all it takes is a
screwdriver and the associated skill set.

When I had my 60 amp fused service upgraded to a 150 amp breaker panel
a bunch of years back, it required a new service cable from the bugs
at the top of the house through the meter and then to the panel. I
don't recall if it required new wires from the pole to the bugs.

I don't think it safe to "assume" that all the OP needs is a breaker
box and a screwdriver to upgrade to 200 amps.

On Nov 2, 6:03*pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
RicodJour wrote:
On Nov 2, 12:27 pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
Jeffy3 wrote:
Our 55 year-old house still runs on fuses . We have never upgraded
to a circuit breaker . We hardly ever blow fuses (it's been years
actually). We even run our heater and air conditioner off an
individual fuse box installed 25 years ago. We have an electrician
coming out to give us an estimate to upgrade to a circuit breaker,
but since we've made the appointment we've heard from two people
who say fuses are better and why bother spending the money if we
don't have any problems. Thoughts ?

An alternative is to install a breaker-box yourself. You can get
everything you need at the box store and, with an afternoon's* work,
you should be able to swap out the fuse box for a 200 Amp service.

Should cost about $300.

----
* Depending on how far you are from the hardware store for forgotten
items...

Man, WTF is up with you and bad advice? *Is this some childish attempt
to be funny?

The OP has fuses. *The odds of him having 200 amp service is remote.
You have no idea of his service, you have no idea of his capabilities,
he already mentioned that he was having an electrician to come out and
give a price for changing the panel - so, what exactly are you doing
besides ignoring his question and running off at the mouth?

Stop it. *It's dangerous. *Pick some question that is more up your
alley and doesn't have life-threatening consequences. *Maybe painting
barn scenes on hand saw blades or making clocks out of circular saw
blades.

Sorry I set you off.

First, I started my post with "An ALTERNATIVE is..."

Second, I suggested a 200 Amp service because the incremental cost between
that and a 60 Amp or 100 Amp service is trivial. Might as well have excess
capacity.

Third, it's NOT dangerous. Or complicated. Union people do it every day.

Fourth, while you are correct that I have no idea as to the OPs
capabilities, I presumed his hand would fit a screwdriver (which is the
extent of the skill-set that's required). If I erred in this assumption, I
apologize.

It IS up my alley inasmuch as I've done it. The first one I did, I had no
experience but the job was as straightforward as changing a ti cut the
power, remove the old apparatus, install the new, turn the power back on and
see if anything smokes. It took me and my son about five hours, what with
frequent beer breaks and all.

(Just kidding about the booze - although we DID have a beer when we
finished; sort of a celebration in saving about $1000 over what an
electrical company bid.)- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

"Third, it's NOT dangerous. Or complicated. Union people do it
every day."

That oughta endear you to the "union people".

wrote:

On Mon, 02 Nov 2009 17:54:12 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


wrote:

On Mon, 02 Nov 2009 15:46:55 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


wrote:

On Mon, 2 Nov 2009 07:12:55 -0800 (PST), Jeffy3
wrote:

Our 55 year-old house still runs on fuses . We have never upgraded to
a circuit breaker . We hardly ever blow fuses (it's been years
actually). We even run our heater and air conditioner off an
individual fuse box installed 25 years ago. We have an electrician
coming out to give us an estimate to upgrade to a circuit breaker, but
since we've made the appointment we've heard from two people who say
fuses are better and why bother spending the money if we don't have
any problems. Thoughts ?

If the fuses are properly sized they are safer than breakers because
they fail "open". A breaker can fail closed and provide no protection
(Google Federal Pacific and read the stories)
If you have the proper sized type S adapters and Type S fuses they
fully comply with the 2008 code. You could install one tomorrow in new
construction ... if someone made the panel.
Unfortunately a home inspector would flag fuses as a defect, but most
HIs are generally clueless when it comes to code and they state that
in their contract disclaimer.

Where do you find the necessary AFCI fuses for the bedroom circuits?

In that mythical "device" type AFCI that 210.12(B) ex1 alludes to.

... and that is virtually all receptacles now.

AFCI, not GFCI.

210.12(b) clearly states an AFCI circuit breaker listed to provide
protection to the *entire branch circuit*. A receptacle could never fill
that requirement.

Read it again, particularly exception 1
Where does it say "breaker"?
Ex 1 says essentially
You can come off your fuse panel in a metal raceway to a box with a
device type AFCI (similar to the device GFCI) then on to your
protected circuits.

That would be new since my NEC2002 book, including the expansion to
rooms other than bedrooms. The NEC2002 had no such exception and
specifically indicated protection for the "entire branch circuit". Since
I live in an area with no code, permits or inspections, NEC2002 is quite
sufficient for my needs.


from the book;
210.12 Arc-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection.
(A) Definition: Arc-Fault Circuit Interrupter (AFCI). A device
intended to provide protection from the effects of arc faults by
recognizing characteristics unique to arcing and by functioning to
de-energize the circuit when an arc fault is detected.
(B) Dwelling Units. All 120-volt, single phase, 15- and 20-ampere
branch circuits supplying outlets installed in dwelling unit family
rooms, dining rooms, living rooms, parlors, libraries, dens, bedrooms,
sunrooms, recreation rooms, closets, hallways, or similar rooms or
areas shall be protected by a listed arc-fault circuit interrupter,
combination-type, installed to provide protection of the branch
circuit.
FPN No. 1: For information on types of arc-fault circuit interrupters,
see UL 1699-1999, Standard for Arc-Fault Circuit Interrupters.
FPN No. 2: See 11.6.3(5) of NFPA 72®-2007, National Fire Alarm Code®,
for information related to secondary power supply requirements for
smoke alarms installed in dwelling units.
FPN No. 3: See 760.41(B) and 760.121(B) for power-supply requirements
for fire alarm systems.
Exception No. 1: Where RMC, IMC, EMT or steel armored cable, Type AC,
meeting the requirements of 250.118 using metal outlet and junction
boxes is installed for the portion of the branch circuit between the
branch-circuit overcurrent device and the first outlet, it shall be
permitted to install a combination AFCI at the first outlet to provide
protection for the remaining portion of the branch circuit.

Jules wrote:
On Mon, 02 Nov 2009 09:39:10 -0700, Tony Hwang wrote:
Fuse or breaker there are many different kinds. Only difference is you
can reset a breaker. You can't with fuse. Once it's blown, you replace it.

Nah, you cut it open and solder a bit of wire across the break.

(Sad to say, I've seen it done - and the aftermath. But only with consumer
electronics luckily)


Hi,
Do you do things like that?

DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Nov 2, 6:03 pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
RicodJour wrote:
On Nov 2, 12:27 pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
Jeffy3 wrote:
Our 55 year-old house still runs on fuses . We have never upgraded
to a circuit breaker . We hardly ever blow fuses (it's been years
actually). We even run our heater and air conditioner off an
individual fuse box installed 25 years ago. We have an electrician
coming out to give us an estimate to upgrade to a circuit breaker,
but since we've made the appointment we've heard from two people
who say fuses are better and why bother spending the money if we
don't have any problems. Thoughts ?

An alternative is to install a breaker-box yourself. You can get
everything you need at the box store and, with an afternoon's*
work, you should be able to swap out the fuse box for a 200 Amp
service.

Should cost about $300.

----
* Depending on how far you are from the hardware store for
forgotten items...

Man, WTF is up with you and bad advice? Is this some childish
attempt to be funny?

The OP has fuses. The odds of him having 200 amp service is remote.
You have no idea of his service, you have no idea of his
capabilities, he already mentioned that he was having an
electrician to come out and give a price for changing the panel -
so, what exactly are you doing besides ignoring his question and
running off at the mouth?

Stop it. It's dangerous. Pick some question that is more up your
alley and doesn't have life-threatening consequences. Maybe painting
barn scenes on hand saw blades or making clocks out of circular saw
blades.

Sorry I set you off.

First, I started my post with "An ALTERNATIVE is..."

Second, I suggested a 200 Amp service because the incremental cost
between that and a 60 Amp or 100 Amp service is trivial. Might as
well have excess capacity.

Third, it's NOT dangerous. Or complicated. Union people do it every
day.

Fourth, while you are correct that I have no idea as to the OPs
capabilities, I presumed his hand would fit a screwdriver (which is
the extent of the skill-set that's required). If I erred in this
assumption, I apologize.

It IS up my alley inasmuch as I've done it. The first one I did, I
had no experience but the job was as straightforward as changing a
ti cut the power, remove the old apparatus, install the new, turn
the power back on and see if anything smokes. It took me and my son
about five hours, what with frequent beer breaks and all.

(Just kidding about the booze - although we DID have a beer when we
finished; sort of a celebration in saving about $1000 over what an
electrical company bid.)- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Fourth, while you are correct that I have no idea as to the OPs
capabilities, I presumed his hand would fit a screwdriver (which is
the extent of the skill-set that's required). If I erred in this
assumption, I apologize.

I think the error in your assumption is that all it takes is a
screwdriver and the associated skill set.

When I had my 60 amp fused service upgraded to a 150 amp breaker panel
a bunch of years back, it required a new service cable from the bugs
at the top of the house through the meter and then to the panel. I
don't recall if it required new wires from the pole to the bugs.

I don't think it safe to "assume" that all the OP needs is a breaker
box and a screwdriver to upgrade to 200 amps.

Oh. Right. What I meant to imply was that he could put in a 200 Amp service
panel even if he is currently hooked-up with only 60 Amp service from the
power company.