I have a property that has an outdoor concrete stairway that leads to a
basement entrance. The steps run down below grade along the back wall of
the basement to a landing, and then by turning right one can enter the
basement through a door in the back wall. The landing is about 18 inches
above the basement floor level, so after entering the basement door, there
are 2 or 3 steps down to the basement floor.

What I would like to do is add a few more steps down along the back basement
wall, beginning at the end of the first landing (where the existing door
is), and then create a second landing that is about 18 inches lower than the
first landing. Where the new landing will be, I would like to add a second
entrance to the basement.

The present concrete steps and landing are bordered by a concrete block
wall -- one along the side of the steps, and one at the end of the existing
landing at the bottom of the steps. The new design will require knocking
out the concrete block wall at the end of the existing landing to continue
the new run of steps down to the new (second) entrance to the basement.

The existing landing has a floor drain that I think goes to a French drain
type of setup under the basement floor. It doesn't go to any sewer line.
What I think I would like to do is have the existing floor drain and the new
floor drain for the new landing go to a similar French drain type of setup
under the basement floor which also can drain into a new sump pump pit that
I will have installed.

If it's a straight-forward job, I may just go ahead and do it myself with
the help of a friend. Or, I could get some estimates from concrete
contractors and see what they say needs to be done. If the concrete
contractors know what they are doing and it doesn't cost too much, I may
just have them do it -- but I have a hunch that they will want a lot more
than I would want to pay when I could do it myself for a lot less.

The part of all of this that I don't know about is how the new landing and
new added concrete block surrounding and retaining wall should be built. In
other words, is there a certain type or amount of footing that needs to go
under the new section of retaining wall? And, is there anything special
that needs to go under the new landing, other than a stone base underneath?
Is rebar required anywhere?

On Oct 10, 11:52*am, "Beta-42" wrote:
I have a property that has an outdoor concrete stairway that leads to a
basement entrance. *The steps run down below grade along the back wall of
the basement to a landing, and then by turning right one can enter the
basement through a door in the back wall. *The landing is about 18 inches
above the basement floor level, so after entering the basement door, there
are 2 or 3 steps down to the basement floor.

What I would like to do is add a few more steps down along the back basement
wall, beginning at the end of the first landing (where the existing door
is), and then create a second landing that is about 18 inches lower than the
first landing. *Where the new landing will be, I would like to add a second
entrance to the basement.

The present concrete steps and landing are bordered by a concrete block
wall -- one along the side of the steps, and one at the end of the existing
landing at the bottom of the steps. *The new design will require knocking
out the concrete block wall at the end of the existing landing to continue
the new run of steps down to the new (second) entrance to the basement.

The existing landing has a floor drain that I think goes to a French drain
type of setup under the basement floor. *It doesn't go to any sewer line.
What I think I would like to do is have the existing floor drain and the new
floor drain for the new landing go to a similar French drain type of setup
under the basement floor which also can drain into a new sump pump pit that
I will have installed.

If it's a straight-forward job, I may just go ahead and do it myself with
the help of a friend. *Or, I could get some estimates from concrete
contractors and see what they say needs to be done. *If the concrete
contractors know what they are doing and it doesn't cost too much, I may
just have them do it -- but I have a hunch that they will want a lot more
than I would want to pay when I could do it myself for a lot less.

The part of all of this that I don't know about is how the new landing and
new added concrete block surrounding and retaining wall should be built. *In
other words, is there a certain type or amount of footing that needs to go
under the new section of retaining wall? *And, is there anything special
that needs to go under the new landing, other than a stone base underneath?
Is rebar required anywhere?

Depends where you are and your local codes and weather conditions.
Call up the contractors and get some prices and advice.

R

RicodJour wrote:
On Oct 10, 11:52 am, "Beta-42" wrote:
I have a property that has an outdoor concrete stairway that leads
.................,
The part of all of this that I don't know about is how the new
landing and new added concrete block surrounding and retaining wall
should be built. In other words, is there a certain type or amount
of footing that needs to go under the new section of retaining wall?
And, is there anything special that needs to go under the new
landing, other than a stone base underneath? Is rebar required
anywhere?

Depends where you are and your local codes and weather conditions.
Call up the contractors and get some prices and advice.

I should have added, I am in New Jersey near Philadelphia, PA.

"Beta-42" wrote in message
...
I have a property that has an outdoor concrete stairway that leads to a
basement entrance. The steps run down below grade along the back wall of
the basement to a landing, and then by turning right one can enter the
basement through a door in the back wall. The landing is about 18 inches
above the basement floor level, so after entering the basement door, there
are 2 or 3 steps down to the basement floor.

What I would like to do is add a few more steps down along the back
basement wall, beginning at the end of the first landing (where the
existing door is), and then create a second landing that is about 18
inches lower than the first landing. Where the new landing will be, I
would like to add a second entrance to the basement.

The present concrete steps and landing are bordered by a concrete block
wall -- one along the side of the steps, and one at the end of the
existing landing at the bottom of the steps. The new design will require
knocking out the concrete block wall at the end of the existing landing to
continue the new run of steps down to the new (second) entrance to the
basement.

The existing landing has a floor drain that I think goes to a French drain
type of setup under the basement floor. It doesn't go to any sewer line.
What I think I would like to do is have the existing floor drain and the
new floor drain for the new landing go to a similar French drain type of
setup under the basement floor which also can drain into a new sump pump
pit that I will have installed.

If it's a straight-forward job, I may just go ahead and do it myself with
the help of a friend. Or, I could get some estimates from concrete
contractors and see what they say needs to be done. If the concrete
contractors know what they are doing and it doesn't cost too much, I may
just have them do it -- but I have a hunch that they will want a lot more
than I would want to pay when I could do it myself for a lot less.

The part of all of this that I don't know about is how the new landing and
new added concrete block surrounding and retaining wall should be built.
In other words, is there a certain type or amount of footing that needs to
go under the new section of retaining wall? And, is there anything
special that needs to go under the new landing, other than a stone base
underneath? Is rebar required anywhere?


What can you do for a lot less? This is a very physical job and also
requires some skill and experience.

In NJ plans would have to be submitted to the building department indicating
the below the frost line footings as well as the lintel or other means to
support the building above the new doorway. They don't like uncoated rebar
in the footings here. I suggest that you check with your building
department as requirements vary from state to state.

On Oct 10, 8:52*am, "Beta-42" wrote:
I have a property that has an outdoor concrete stairway that leads to a
basement entrance. *The steps run down below grade along the back wall of
the basement to a landing, and then by turning right one can enter the
basement through a door in the back wall. *The landing is about 18 inches
above the basement floor level, so after entering the basement door, there
are 2 or 3 steps down to the basement floor.

What I would like to do is add a few more steps down along the back basement
wall, beginning at the end of the first landing (where the existing door
is), and then create a second landing that is about 18 inches lower than the
first landing. *Where the new landing will be, I would like to add a second
entrance to the basement.

The present concrete steps and landing are bordered by a concrete block
wall -- one along the side of the steps, and one at the end of the existing
landing at the bottom of the steps. *The new design will require knocking
out the concrete block wall at the end of the existing landing to continue
the new run of steps down to the new (second) entrance to the basement.

The existing landing has a floor drain that I think goes to a French drain
type of setup under the basement floor. *It doesn't go to any sewer line.
What I think I would like to do is have the existing floor drain and the new
floor drain for the new landing go to a similar French drain type of setup
under the basement floor which also can drain into a new sump pump pit that
I will have installed.

If it's a straight-forward job, I may just go ahead and do it myself with
the help of a friend. *Or, I could get some estimates from concrete
contractors and see what they say needs to be done. *If the concrete
contractors know what they are doing and it doesn't cost too much, I may
just have them do it -- but I have a hunch that they will want a lot more
than I would want to pay when I could do it myself for a lot less.

The part of all of this that I don't know about is how the new landing and
new added concrete block surrounding and retaining wall should be built. *In
other words, is there a certain type or amount of footing that needs to go
under the new section of retaining wall? *And, is there anything special
that needs to go under the new landing, other than a stone base underneath?
Is rebar required anywhere?

Conceptually this is a pretty straightforward job but the devil is in
the details.

Visualizing the desired the result is only the first step (a first
that that many cannot get right). You seem to have a good handle on
it.

But then you start asking questions that indicate a total lack of
understanding of the details"
how to build the new wall & landing
footing design & construction
footing base
rebar

Get a couple guys out to look at the job. I think you;re going to get
major "sticker shock".

Where are oyu located? Oregon? Texas? New Jersey? Arizona?

The cost & the effort to do this.........is it really worth doing just
to eliminate those extra steps inside the basement?


cheers
Bob

fftt wrote:
On Oct 10, 8:52 am, "Beta-42" wrote:
I have a property that has an outdoor concrete stairway that leads

But then you start asking questions that indicate a total lack of
understanding of the details"
how to build the new wall & landing
footing design & construction
footing base
rebar

Get a couple guys out to look at the job. I think you;re going to get
major "sticker shock".

Where are oyu located? Oregon? Texas? New Jersey? Arizona?

The cost & the effort to do this.........is it really worth doing just
to eliminate those extra steps inside the basement?


I am in New Jersey, near Philadelphia, PA.

I do expect sticker shock, but I guess I'll just have to get a few
contractors out there to look at it and give me the low-down. I do have
someone who can do the work and "mostly" knows what he is doing. He can do
the dig out by machine, and he knows how to do most concrete and concrete
block work, but I don't have confidence that he knows the "details" that I
was asking about.

The two-door idea is for a different reason than just to elimnate the extra
steps in the basement. The building is a rental property and the "basement"
is actually a lower level finished apartment. I want to add a second door
that will be an outside entrance that would lead to the heater room so it
can be accessed directly from the outside without having to go into the
lower level apartment.

Beta-42 wrote:
I have a property that has an outdoor concrete stairway that leads to
a basement entrance. The steps run down below grade along the back
wall of the basement to a landing, and then by turning right one can
enter the basement through a door in the back wall. The landing is
about 18 inches above the basement floor level, so after entering the
basement door, there are 2 or 3 steps down to the basement floor.

What I would like to do is add a few more steps down along the back
basement wall, beginning at the end of the first landing (where the
existing door is), and then create a second landing that is about 18
inches lower than the first landing. Where the new landing will be,
I would like to add a second entrance to the basement.

The present concrete steps and landing are bordered by a concrete
block wall -- one along the side of the steps, and one at the end of
the existing landing at the bottom of the steps. The new design will
require knocking out the concrete block wall at the end of the
existing landing to continue the new run of steps down to the new
(second) entrance to the basement.
The existing landing has a floor drain that I think goes to a French
drain type of setup under the basement floor. It doesn't go to any
sewer line. What I think I would like to do is have the existing
floor drain and the new floor drain for the new landing go to a
similar French drain type of setup under the basement floor which
also can drain into a new sump pump pit that I will have installed.

If it's a straight-forward job, I may just go ahead and do it myself
with the help of a friend. Or, I could get some estimates from
concrete contractors and see what they say needs to be done. If the
concrete contractors know what they are doing and it doesn't cost too
much, I may just have them do it -- but I have a hunch that they will
want a lot more than I would want to pay when I could do it myself
for a lot less.
The part of all of this that I don't know about is how the new
landing and new added concrete block surrounding and retaining wall
should be built. In other words, is there a certain type or amount
of footing that needs to go under the new section of retaining wall? And,
is there anything special that needs to go under the new
landing, other than a stone base underneath? Is rebar required
anywhere?

You will need to ensure that the existing footings of the house, or change
the footings of the house so that they are below the frost line in your
area, you will find that this also applies horizontally so that when frost
enters the stairway wall it will freeze the ground in all directions, left,
right and down. For example if you have a 4 foot frost level you will need
the house and any permanent stair walls to have footings 4 feet below the
bottom landing and for 4 feet on each side of the stairway opening, as well
as below the angled portion of the decending stairs of they run beside the
house foundation wall.

EXT wrote:
Beta-42 wrote:
I have a property that has an outdoor concrete stairway that leads to
a basement entrance. The steps run down below grade along the back
wall of the basement to a landing, and then by turning right one can
enter the basement through a door in the back wall. The landing is
about 18 inches above the basement floor level, so after entering the
basement door, there are 2 or 3 steps down to the basement floor.

What I would like to do is add a few more steps down along the back
basement wall, beginning at the end of the first landing (where the
existing door is), and then create a second landing that is about 18
inches lower than the first landing. Where the new landing will be,
I would like to add a second entrance to the basement.

The present concrete steps and landing are bordered by a concrete
block wall -- one along the side of the steps, and one at the end of
the existing landing at the bottom of the steps. The new design will
require knocking out the concrete block wall at the end of the
existing landing to continue the new run of steps down to the new
(second) entrance to the basement.
The existing landing has a floor drain that I think goes to a French
drain type of setup under the basement floor. It doesn't go to any
sewer line. What I think I would like to do is have the existing
floor drain and the new floor drain for the new landing go to a
similar French drain type of setup under the basement floor which
also can drain into a new sump pump pit that I will have installed.

If it's a straight-forward job, I may just go ahead and do it myself
with the help of a friend. Or, I could get some estimates from
concrete contractors and see what they say needs to be done. If the
concrete contractors know what they are doing and it doesn't cost too
much, I may just have them do it -- but I have a hunch that they will
want a lot more than I would want to pay when I could do it myself
for a lot less.
The part of all of this that I don't know about is how the new
landing and new added concrete block surrounding and retaining wall
should be built. In other words, is there a certain type or amount
of footing that needs to go under the new section of retaining wall?
And, is there anything special that needs to go under the new
landing, other than a stone base underneath? Is rebar required
anywhere?

You will need to ensure that the existing footings of the house, or
change the footings of the house so that they are below the frost line
in your area, you will find that this also applies horizontally so that
when frost enters the stairway wall it will freeze the ground in all
directions, left, right and down. For example if you have a 4 foot frost
level you will need the house and any permanent stair walls to have
footings 4 feet below the bottom landing and for 4 feet on each side of
the stairway opening, as well as below the angled portion of the
decending stairs of they run beside the house foundation wall.

So how do they install all the precast outside basement stairwells I see
sitting at the concrete plant on the way to work every morning? Or do
they consider those a window well, since they aren't really attached to
the house?

--
aem sends, genuinely curious....

"aemeijers" wrote in message
...
EXT wrote:

You will need to ensure that the existing footings of the house, or
change the footings of the house so that they are below the frost line in
your area, you will find that this also applies horizontally so that when
frost enters the stairway wall it will freeze the ground in all
directions, left, right and down. For example if you have a 4 foot frost
level you will need the house and any permanent stair walls to have
footings 4 feet below the bottom landing and for 4 feet on each side of
the stairway opening, as well as below the angled portion of the
decending stairs of they run beside the house foundation wall.

So how do they install all the precast outside basement stairwells I see
sitting at the concrete plant on the way to work every morning? Or do they
consider those a window well, since they aren't really attached to the
house?

Interesting. I hadn't thought or heard about precast basement stairs. I
just did a Google search and found these links:

http://video.bobvila.com/m/21320387/...a-bulkhead.htm



http://www.careyprecast.com/permentry.htm



http://en.allexperts.com/q/Home-Impr...lar-egress.htm



Although all of these show typical "Bilco"-style basement entrance steps,
and not the kind of stairways that I want that run parallel to the wall, I
didn't see anything on any of them calling for footings, frost line issues,
etc.

On Oct 10, 10:16*am, "Beta-42" wrote:
fftt wrote:
On Oct 10, 8:52 am, "Beta-42" wrote:
I have a property that has an outdoor concrete stairway that leads

But then you start asking questions that indicate a total lack of
understanding of the details"
how to build the new wall & landing
footing design & construction
footing base
rebar

Get a couple guys out to look at the job. *I think you;re going to get
major "sticker shock".

Where are oyu located? *Oregon? Texas? New Jersey? * *Arizona?

The cost & the effort to do this.........is it really worth doing just
to eliminate those extra steps inside the basement?

I am in New Jersey, near Philadelphia, PA.

I do expect sticker shock, but I guess I'll just have to get a few
contractors out there to look at it and give me the low-down. *I do have
someone who can do the work and "mostly" knows what he is doing. *He can do
the dig out by machine, and he knows how to do most concrete and concrete
block work, but I don't have confidence that he knows the "details" that I
was asking about.

The two-door idea is for a different reason than just to elimnate the extra
steps in the basement. *The building is a rental property and the "basement"
is actually a lower level finished apartment. *I want to add a second door
that will be an outside entrance that would lead to the heater room so it
can be accessed directly from the outside without having to go into the
lower level apartment.

How often do you need to access this heater room? How about an
adjacent "well" next to the existing one & drop in a prefab spiral
stair?

cheers
Bob

fftt wrote:
On Oct 10, 10:16 am, "Beta-42" wrote:
fftt wrote:
On Oct 10, 8:52 am, "Beta-42" wrote:
I have a property that has an outdoor concrete stairway that leads
But then you start asking questions that indicate a total lack of
understanding of the details"
how to build the new wall & landing
footing design & construction
footing base
rebar
Get a couple guys out to look at the job. I think you;re going to get
major "sticker shock".
Where are oyu located? Oregon? Texas? New Jersey? Arizona?
The cost & the effort to do this.........is it really worth doing just
to eliminate those extra steps inside the basement?
I am in New Jersey, near Philadelphia, PA.

I do expect sticker shock, but I guess I'll just have to get a few
contractors out there to look at it and give me the low-down. I do have
someone who can do the work and "mostly" knows what he is doing. He can do
the dig out by machine, and he knows how to do most concrete and concrete
block work, but I don't have confidence that he knows the "details" that I
was asking about.

The two-door idea is for a different reason than just to elimnate the extra
steps in the basement. The building is a rental property and the "basement"
is actually a lower level finished apartment. I want to add a second door
that will be an outside entrance that would lead to the heater room so it
can be accessed directly from the outside without having to go into the
lower level apartment.

How often do you need to access this heater room? How about an
adjacent "well" next to the existing one & drop in a prefab spiral
stair?

cheers
Bob

Pretty hard getting a new water heater or furnace down a spiral staircase...

--
aem sends...

On Oct 11, 4:20*am, aemeijers wrote:
fftt wrote:
On Oct 10, 10:16 am, "Beta-42" wrote:
fftt wrote:
On Oct 10, 8:52 am, "Beta-42" wrote:
I have a property that has an outdoor concrete stairway that leads
But then you start asking questions that indicate a total lack of
understanding of the details"
how to build the new wall & landing
footing design & construction
footing base
rebar
Get a couple guys out to look at the job. *I think you;re going to get
major "sticker shock".
Where are oyu located? *Oregon? Texas? New Jersey? * *Arizona?
The cost & the effort to do this.........is it really worth doing just
to eliminate those extra steps inside the basement?
I am in New Jersey, near Philadelphia, PA.

I do expect sticker shock, but I guess I'll just have to get a few
contractors out there to look at it and give me the low-down. *I do have
someone who can do the work and "mostly" knows what he is doing. *He can do
the dig out by machine, and he knows how to do most concrete and concrete
block work, but I don't have confidence that he knows the "details" that I
was asking about.

The two-door idea is for a different reason than just to elimnate the extra
steps in the basement. *The building is a rental property and the "basement"
is actually a lower level finished apartment. *I want to add a second door
that will be an outside entrance that would lead to the heater room so it
can be accessed directly from the outside without having to go into the
lower level apartment.

How often do you need to access this heater room? * How about an
adjacent "well" next to the existing one & drop in a prefab spiral
stair?

cheers
Bob

Pretty hard getting a new water heater or furnace down a spiral staircase....

--
aem sends...

That would be kinda hard. I was figuring on the "new access" being
used on a weekly or monthly basis and the "old access" being used for
the major stuff; water heater / furnace replacement"

Unfortunately the OP's desires & requirements are not fully disclosed.

cheers
Bob

btw...not that I'm suggesting it........ but you might be surprised
what can go up & down a spiral or curved stair.

"fftt" wrote in message
...
How often do you need to access this heater room? How about an
adjacent "well" next to the existing one & drop in a prefab spiral
stair?

cheers
Bob

--------------------

Thanks for the suggestion. The heater room has 3 gas-fired baseboard heater
units and 3 gas hot wanter heater units. It's a 3-unit apartment building.
I have considered various other designs and layouts but, at least for now,
I'm trying to find out more about what the design I have in mind would
involve.

On Oct 11, 1:29*pm, "Beta-42" wrote:
"fftt" wrote in message

...
How often do you need to access this heater room? * How about an
adjacent "well" next to the existing one & drop in a prefab spiral
stair?

cheers
Bob

--------------------

Thanks for the suggestion. *The heater room has 3 gas-fired baseboard heater
units and 3 gas hot wanter heater units. *It's a 3-unit apartment building.
I have considered various other designs and layouts but, at least for now,
I'm trying to find out more about what the design I have in mind would
involve.

Before you move forward on any design (even getting guys out to bid)
you need to determine what you this change to accomplish.

Getting construction guys out to the site with nothing more in mind
than picking their brains and then doing the work yourself is why
construction guys (typically) give quick & dirty estimates (or are
unwilling to come out at all).

Of course with the economy slow it should be easy to get them to come
out but in reality it will probably not result in work for any of
them

I suggested the "extra stair well" because it requires less demo,
results in less disruption to the existing stairwell & the same new
construction.

If the new stair way is not just human access but machines as
well.....then oyu need to stick with the stairway modification.

cheers
Bob

"JayTKR" wrote in message
...
Oops. JayTKR = Beta-42. I posted this from a different computer which
has my JayTKR username set up instead of my Beta-42 username.

"JayTKR" wrote in message
...
"aemeijers" wrote in message
...
EXT wrote:

You will need to ensure that the existing footings of the house, or
change the footings of the house so that they are below the frost line
in your area, you will find that this also applies horizontally so that
when frost enters the stairway wall it will freeze the ground in all
directions, left, right and down. For example if you have a 4 foot
frost level you will need the house and any permanent stair walls to
have footings 4 feet below the bottom landing and for 4 feet on each
side of the stairway opening, as well as below the angled portion of
the decending stairs of they run beside the house foundation wall.

So how do they install all the precast outside basement stairwells I see
sitting at the concrete plant on the way to work every morning? Or do
they consider those a window well, since they aren't really attached to
the house?

Interesting. I hadn't thought or heard about precast basement stairs. I
just did a Google search and found these links:

http://video.bobvila.com/m/21320387/...a-bulkhead.htm



http://www.careyprecast.com/permentry.htm



http://en.allexperts.com/q/Home-Impr...lar-egress.htm



Although all of these show typical "Bilco"-style basement entrance steps,
and not the kind of stairways that I want that run parallel to the wall,
I didn't see anything on any of them calling for footings, frost line
issues, etc.



Those are for regular single family homes and may not be legal for all
areas...It doesn't matter though because you have a commercial building....A
whole different ball of wax...Especially in NJ...LOL...

On Oct 11, 6:17*pm, "benick" wrote:
"JayTKR" wrote in message

...



Oops. *JayTKR = Beta-42. *I posted this from a different computer which
has my JayTKR username set up instead of my Beta-42 username.

"JayTKR" wrote in message
...
"aemeijers" wrote in message
om...
EXT wrote:

You will need to ensure that the existing footings of the house, or
change the footings of the house so that they are below the frost line
in your area, you will find that this also applies horizontally so that
when frost enters the stairway wall it will freeze the ground in all
directions, left, right and down. For example if you have a 4 foot
frost level you will need the house and any permanent stair walls to
have footings 4 feet below the bottom landing and for 4 feet on each
side of the stairway opening, as well as below the angled portion of
the decending stairs of they run beside the house foundation wall.

So how do they install all the precast outside basement stairwells I see
sitting at the concrete plant on the way to work every morning? Or do
they consider those a window well, since they aren't really attached to
the house?

Interesting. *I hadn't thought or heard about precast basement stairs. *I
just did a Google search and found these links:

http://video.bobvila.com/m/21320387/...-concrete-base....

http://www.careyprecast.com/permentry.htm

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Home-Impr.../cellar-egress....

Although all of these show typical "Bilco"-style basement entrance steps,
and not the kind of stairways that I want that run parallel to the wall,
I didn't see anything on any of them calling for footings, frost line
issues, etc.

Those are for regular single family homes and may not be legal for all
areas...It doesn't matter though because you have a commercial building.....A
whole different ball of wax...Especially in NJ...LOL...

Another good point...I missed NJ as the job location. All bets are
off.

But maybe a spiral would be ok since its access to a "non-occupied"
space.....like a utility room in a commercial building?

cheers
Bob