How about getting rid of all those batteries in various devices in the home
and connecting the battery connections to one central battery?

That is to run separate wires when wiring a home and these would carry say
12 volts DC. There would be a central large battery and battery charger like
the type used in a computer UPS.

Then at each electronic gizmo which needs a battery, use a "battery
eliminator" along with a voltage regulator to supply it with the correct
voltage. And plug this into a nearby 12 volts DC "outlet".

This could provide battery power to smoke detectors, carbon monoxide
detectors, HVAC thermostat, security system, clocks, digital thermometers,
computer UPS, phone answering machine, etc.

Then only ONE battery to worry about...

A 9 volt battery eliminator picture...
http://www.wirelessmicrocolorcam.com... 7a77410624ea

On Sep 28, 11:52*am, "Bill" wrote:
How about getting rid of all those batteries in various devices in the home
and connecting the battery connections to one central battery?

That is to run separate wires when wiring a home and these would carry say
12 volts DC. There would be a central large battery and battery charger like
the type used in a computer UPS.

Then at each electronic gizmo which needs a battery, use a "battery
eliminator" along with a voltage regulator to supply it with the correct
voltage. And plug this into a nearby 12 volts DC "outlet".

This could provide battery power to smoke detectors, carbon monoxide
detectors, HVAC thermostat, security system, clocks, digital thermometers,
computer UPS, phone answering machine, etc.

Then only ONE battery to worry about...

Single point of failure. Probably not a good idea.

Cindy Hamilton

On Sep 28, 10:52*am, "Bill" wrote:
How about getting rid of all those batteries in various devices in the home
and connecting the battery connections to one central battery?

That is to run separate wires when wiring a home and these would carry say
12 volts DC. There would be a central large battery and battery charger like
the type used in a computer UPS.

Then at each electronic gizmo which needs a battery, use a "battery
eliminator" along with a voltage regulator to supply it with the correct
voltage. And plug this into a nearby 12 volts DC "outlet".

This could provide battery power to smoke detectors, carbon monoxide
detectors, HVAC thermostat, security system, clocks, digital thermometers,
computer UPS, phone answering machine, etc.

Then only ONE battery to worry about...

A 9 volt battery eliminator picture...http://www.wirelessmicrocolorcam.com....php?pID=47&os...

If I am not mistaken, at low (12v) voltages, there is substantial
voltage loss in longer cable runs. Also, many DC devices operate on
other voltages, like 9V, 6V, 19V, 20V, etc. There is also not a
universal DC power outlet, unless you think of the car lighter type
plug, but I've seen other outlets in airplanes, etc.

So all in all I don't think it is feasible.

"Bill" wrote in message
...
How about getting rid of all those batteries in various devices in the
home and connecting the battery connections to one central battery?

That is to run separate wires when wiring a home and these would carry say
12 volts DC. There would be a central large battery and battery charger
like the type used in a computer UPS.

Then at each electronic gizmo which needs a battery, use a "battery
eliminator" along with a voltage regulator to supply it with the correct
voltage. And plug this into a nearby 12 volts DC "outlet".

This could provide battery power to smoke detectors, carbon monoxide
detectors, HVAC thermostat, security system, clocks, digital thermometers,
computer UPS, phone answering machine, etc.

Then only ONE battery to worry about...

A 9 volt battery eliminator picture...
http://www.wirelessmicrocolorcam.com... 7a77410624ea

Would not work for my flashlight. WW

On Sep 28, 11:14*am, "WW" wrote:


A 9 volt battery eliminator picture...
http://www.wirelessmicrocolorcam.com....php?pID=47&os....

Would not work for my flashlight. WW

That URL resized my Firefox Browser window! Not cool.

MikeB wrote:
On Sep 28, 10:52 am, "Bill" wrote:
How about getting rid of all those batteries in various devices in
the home
and connecting the battery connections to one central battery?

That is to run separate wires when wiring a home and these would
carry say 12 volts DC. There would be a central large battery and
battery charger like
the type used in a computer UPS.

Then at each electronic gizmo which needs a battery, use a "battery
eliminator" along with a voltage regulator to supply it with the
correct
voltage. And plug this into a nearby 12 volts DC "outlet".

This could provide battery power to smoke detectors, carbon monoxide
detectors, HVAC thermostat, security system, clocks, digital
thermometers,
computer UPS, phone answering machine, etc.

Then only ONE battery to worry about...

A 9 volt battery eliminator
picture...http://www.wirelessmicrocolorcam.com....php?pID=47&os...

If I am not mistaken, at low (12v) voltages, there is substantial
voltage loss in longer cable runs. Also, many DC devices operate on
other voltages, like 9V, 6V, 19V, 20V, etc. There is also not a
universal DC power outlet, unless you think of the car lighter type
plug, but I've seen other outlets in airplanes, etc.

That means my camera, TV remote controls and many other items would revert
to "wired", each with a wire running to a plug!!!!!!!! No way!!!!!!!!

On Mon, 28 Sep 2009 08:52:38 -0700, Bill wrote:

How about getting rid of all those batteries in various devices in the home
and connecting the battery connections to one central battery?

That is to run separate wires when wiring a home and these would carry say
12 volts DC. There would be a central large battery and battery charger like
the type used in a computer UPS.

When I was thinking about this, I was going to put a bank of inexpensive
(relatively) car/truck batteries in a dedicated vented area out behind my
workshop and potentially move to 24VDC rather than 12 due to the losses
involved in low-voltage DC appls over any kind of distance (initially
testing just for the workshop, and if successful wiring the house, too).

Charging / supplemental power could be via all sorts of means, of course.

Then at each electronic gizmo which needs a battery, use a "battery
eliminator" along with a voltage regulator to supply it with the correct
voltage. And plug this into a nearby 12 volts DC "outlet".

The problem is that you'll either have the inefficiency of running DC-DC
convertors all over the place, or in hacking your devices to better match
them to the available power (lots of stuff does the regulation on-board
rather than in the wall-wart).

Personally I was thinking along the lines of doing it to power some of
the lighting and things like my laptop which can be easily adapted, but
it wouldn't be possible to completely switch off the AC supply at present
- but maybe one day there'll be a standard for low-voltage DC outlets and
devices will be available that'll just use them.

cheers

Jules

On Sep 28, 1:23�pm, Stuart wrote:
In article
,
� �MikeB wrote:

If I am not mistaken, at low (12v) voltages, there is substantial
voltage loss in longer cable runs.

You need lots of copper.

Also, many DC devices operate on other voltages, like 9V, 6V, 19V, 20V,
etc. �There is also not a universal DC power outlet, unless you think of
the car lighter type plug, but I've seen other outlets in airplanes, etc.

Now lets see - there's my torch, my mobile 'phone, my camera, the remote
controls for our TV, VCR, HDD recorder, CD recorder, digibox....

Not sure I want those hard-wired to a central battery -|

The only other battery operated devices I can think of are the smoke and
CO2 alarms. Not worth the effort.

feds should mandate a wall wort standard, the wide variety of them
clogging the landfills is very wasteful. all wall wart devices could
be designed to accept a standard voltage.,....... same for a cell
phone charger standard to cut down on trash

On Mon, 28 Sep 2009 15:24:01 -0700, bob haller wrote:
feds should mandate a wall wort standard, the wide variety of them
clogging the landfills is very wasteful. all wall wart devices could
be designed to accept a standard voltage.,....... same for a cell
phone charger standard to cut down on trash

One for cell phones is happening - see:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2...-phone-charger

On Mon, 28 Sep 2009 08:52:38 -0700, "Bill"
wrote:

How about getting rid of all those batteries in various devices in the home
and connecting the battery connections to one central battery?

That is to run separate wires when wiring a home and these would carry say
12 volts DC. There would be a central large battery and battery charger like
the type used in a computer UPS.

Then at each electronic gizmo which needs a battery, use a "battery
eliminator" along with a voltage regulator to supply it with the correct
voltage. And plug this into a nearby 12 volts DC "outlet".

This could provide battery power to smoke detectors, carbon monoxide
detectors, HVAC thermostat, security system, clocks, digital thermometers,
computer UPS, phone answering machine, etc.

Then only ONE battery to worry about...

A 9 volt battery eliminator picture...
http://www.wirelessmicrocolorcam.com... 7a77410624ea

Hmm, I generally use batteries for *PORTABLE* devices. The stuff that
sits in one place is all AC operated. I think your idea needs work.

"krw" wrote in message

This could provide battery power to smoke detectors, carbon monoxide
detectors, HVAC thermostat, security system, clocks, digital thermometers,
computer UPS, phone answering machine, etc.

Then only ONE battery to worry about...

A 9 volt battery eliminator picture...
http://www.wirelessmicrocolorcam.com... 7a77410624ea

Hmm, I generally use batteries for *PORTABLE* devices. The stuff that
sits in one place is all AC operated. I think your idea needs work.


His idea may need work, but I still have plenty non portable things with
battery power or battery backup. Both thermostats have AA cells. My light
timer and clock radio use batteries for backup. Telephone memory has 4
cells, a caller ID unit has a 9V. Some of those items have plug in
adapters, some don't. I have one smoke/co detector that is battery
operated, the others are had wired.

EVERYONE COMFY ?


I AM PROTEUS

There is already a trend, in the free market. Lets encourage
them (as consumers). The last thing the USA needs is more
federal regulation.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"bob haller" wrote in message
...

feds should mandate a wall wort standard, the wide variety
of them
clogging the landfills is very wasteful. all wall wart
devices could
be designed to accept a standard voltage.,....... same for a
cell
phone charger standard to cut down on trash

"bob haller" wrote in message

...all wall wart devices could be designed to accept a standard
voltage.,....... same for a cell phone charger standard to cut down on
trash


That is another interesting idea!

Many "wall warts" provide DC to all these electronic gizmos. So perhaps
connect these to the DC system - do away with the "wall warts".

So the central battery would provide battery backup AND DC power to
electronic gizmos (instead of using wall warts).

This could help to solve another problem which is voltage surges. The "whole
house" DC electronic power supply in the home could be well protected from
voltage surges, thus you don't need surge protectors at every outlet where
an electronic device is plugged in.

Also these electronic gizmos would continue to work during power outages.

As to voltage drop, make the main supply 24 volts DC if necessary. That
should give you over 12 volts DC at the end of the line.

On Mon, 28 Sep 2009 23:02:18 -0400, "Ed Pawlowski"
wrote:


"krw" wrote in message

This could provide battery power to smoke detectors, carbon monoxide
detectors, HVAC thermostat, security system, clocks, digital thermometers,
computer UPS, phone answering machine, etc.

Then only ONE battery to worry about...

A 9 volt battery eliminator picture...
http://www.wirelessmicrocolorcam.com... 7a77410624ea

Hmm, I generally use batteries for *PORTABLE* devices. The stuff that
sits in one place is all AC operated. I think your idea needs work.


His idea may need work, but I still have plenty non portable things with
battery power or battery backup.

Most have none ;maybe an old clock radio.

Both thermostats have AA cells.

Nope. None here. Both powered off the heat pumps. It doesn't take
much of a battery to keep a clock going. A button cell should last
the life of the clock.

My light timer and clock radio use batteries for backup. Telephone memory has 4
cells, a caller ID unit has a 9V. Some of those items have plug in
adapters, some don't.

See above. You bought junk.

I have one smoke/co detector that is battery
operated, the others are had wired.

Wired is a requirement now.

"Bill" writes:

"bob haller" wrote in message

...all wall wart devices could be designed to accept a standard
voltage.,....... same for a cell phone charger standard to cut down on
trash


That is another interesting idea!

Many "wall warts" provide DC to all these electronic gizmos. So perhaps
connect these to the DC system - do away with the "wall warts".

So the central battery would provide battery backup AND DC power to
electronic gizmos (instead of using wall warts).

One problem whigh you might ecounter when powering devices from
one DC power supply: Ground loop. If you feed everythign with
one power supply, is is very asy to get noise problems to system
if those parts were originally designed t work with their wall warts
what provide isolated power. Then worst case would be if one equipment
would have - side grounded to case and other one + connected to case...

This could help to solve another problem which is voltage surges. The "whole
house" DC electronic power supply in the home could be well protected from
voltage surges, thus you don't need surge protectors at every outlet where
an electronic device is plugged in.

There are whole house surge protectors that plug to main electrical
panel. The DC power distribution system on the other hand could have
it's own surges when things are plugged in and out...

Also these electronic gizmos would continue to work during power outages.

As to voltage drop, make the main supply 24 volts DC if necessary. That
should give you over 12 volts DC at the end of the line.

24V distributed around and locally converted to 12V or whatever needed
is a working idea. A suitable switch mode power supply circuit could do
that (and provide isolation if needed). The problem here is that you
need that small converter box near the outlet.. not much different from
small switch mode type wall wart in size. If you plan to hide those
things inside wall electrical box, then it would not be much different
than having the wall warts hidden somewhere inside the wall
(many same problems).


--
Tomi Engdahl (http://www.iki.fi/then/)
Take a look at my electronics web links and documents at
http://www.epanorama.net/

? "Tomi Holger Engdahl" ?????? ??? ??????
...
"Bill" writes:

"bob haller" wrote in message

...all wall wart devices could be designed to accept a standard
voltage.,....... same for a cell phone charger standard to cut down on
trash


That is another interesting idea!

Many "wall warts" provide DC to all these electronic gizmos. So perhaps
connect these to the DC system - do away with the "wall warts".

So the central battery would provide battery backup AND DC power to
electronic gizmos (instead of using wall warts).

One problem whigh you might ecounter when powering devices from
one DC power supply: Ground loop. If you feed everythign with
one power supply, is is very asy to get noise problems to system
if those parts were originally designed t work with their wall warts
what provide isolated power. Then worst case would be if one equipment
would have - side grounded to case and other one + connected to case...

This could help to solve another problem which is voltage surges. The
"whole
house" DC electronic power supply in the home could be well protected
from
voltage surges, thus you don't need surge protectors at every outlet
where
an electronic device is plugged in.

There are whole house surge protectors that plug to main electrical
panel. The DC power distribution system on the other hand could have
it's own surges when things are plugged in and out...

Also these electronic gizmos would continue to work during power outages.

As to voltage drop, make the main supply 24 volts DC if necessary. That
should give you over 12 volts DC at the end of the line.

24V distributed around and locally converted to 12V or whatever needed
is a working idea. A suitable switch mode power supply circuit could do
that (and provide isolation if needed). The problem here is that you
need that small converter box near the outlet.. not much different from
small switch mode type wall wart in size. If you plan to hide those
things inside wall electrical box, then it would not be much different
than having the wall warts hidden somewhere inside the wall
(many same problems).
Indeed. Many things have proprietary wall warts anyway, with ferrite stubs
(like my turntable/RIAA preamp compo, each came with its own 16 V wall
wart;the preamp, a Cambridge Audio (www.cambridgeaudio.com) 540 PP moving
magnet preamp, 16 V with a ferrit stub, the turntable, a Pro-ject
(www.project-audio.com_ )Debut III with a physically (and probably
electrically) same 16 V wall wart, with the same male jack, but without a
ferrit stub). The only place I've seen that has a dc grid, is a 300 MW steam
power station, fossil fired with brown coal, but I have forgotten the
details, since it's been 15 years or so. It's in Kozani, west macedonia (not
the country, province of Greece). They needed it for the excitation circuits
of the main alternators. While large AC trasformers have a very high
efficiency (99% at full load) wall warts have a much lower, 50% IIRC. And if
they're DC/DC it needs more advanced technology. Not mentioning needing
probably #4 wires for the DC grid of a residence....



--
Tzortzakakis Dimitrios
major in electrical engineering
mechanized infantry reservist
hordad AT otenet DOT gr

On Mon, 28 Sep 2009 08:52:38 -0700, "Bill"
wrote:

How about getting rid of all those batteries in various devices in the home
and connecting the battery connections to one central battery?



Remember that 9 volts will loose voltage in a short run. By
the time you get it trough a wire from one end of the house to
another, you might be down to 7 volts and that might not work too
well.

MikeB wrote:
On Sep 28, 11:14 am, "WW" wrote:

A 9 volt battery eliminator picture...
http://www.wirelessmicrocolorcam.com....php?pID=47&os...
Would not work for my flashlight. WW

That URL resized my Firefox Browser window! Not cool.


Look at the URL, it's for a popup window.

TDD

Bill wrote:
How about getting rid of all those batteries in various devices in the home
and connecting the battery connections to one central battery?

That is to run separate wires when wiring a home and these would carry say
12 volts DC. There would be a central large battery and battery charger like
the type used in a computer UPS.

Then at each electronic gizmo which needs a battery, use a "battery
eliminator" along with a voltage regulator to supply it with the correct
voltage. And plug this into a nearby 12 volts DC "outlet".

This could provide battery power to smoke detectors, carbon monoxide
detectors, HVAC thermostat, security system, clocks, digital thermometers,
computer UPS, phone answering machine, etc.

Then only ONE battery to worry about...

A 9 volt battery eliminator picture...
http://www.wirelessmicrocolorcam.com... 7a77410624ea



My suggestion would be for a 48 volt DC system. Plain
old telephone service uses 48 volts DC for battery and
PoE, power over Ethernet is usually 48 volts DC. The
wire size could be smaller than that for a lower voltage
system and the 78xx type regulators are very inexpensive
and come in a variety of wattage ratings for stepping
down the voltages. The technology to pull it off is not
exotic and can be done with all off the shelf parts.
Solar and wind power could integrate quite easily with
such a system.

TDD

On Sep 28, 11:52*am, "Bill" wrote:
How about getting rid of all those batteries in various devices in the home
and connecting the battery connections to one central battery?

That is to run separate wires when wiring a home and these would carry say
12 volts DC. There would be a central large battery and battery charger like
the type used in a computer UPS.

Then at each electronic gizmo which needs a battery, use a "battery
eliminator" along with a voltage regulator to supply it with the correct
voltage. And plug this into a nearby 12 volts DC "outlet".

This could provide battery power to smoke detectors, carbon monoxide
detectors, HVAC thermostat, security system, clocks, digital thermometers,
computer UPS, phone answering machine, etc.

Then only ONE battery to worry about...

A 9 volt battery eliminator picture...http://www.wirelessmicrocolorcam.com....php?pID=47&os...

THIS DOES'NT MAKE MUCH SENSE

IT IS DOABLE BUT WHY ?

I AM PROTEUS

THIS DOES'NT MAKE MUCH SENSE
IT IS DOABLE BUT WHY ?


In my case, basically for higher reliability of some electronic gizmos. Also
to have pretty much maintenance free electronic gizmos so far as battery
replacement goes.

I live in a rural area and the electricity goes out at least twice a
month...

And I've had problems with phone answering machines which need to have the
time reset each time the power goes out. Or other models the batteries wear
out quickly during a power outage. So my phone answering machine needs
constant attention!

Then I have about 7 battery operated clocks (due to power outages), 6
battery electronic thermometers for temperature monitoring because I have a
wood stove and want to keep an eye on the temperatures when I am in other
rooms of the house, then about 6 battery smoke detectors / CO detectors
everywhere (again for wood stove monitoring).

Basically I frequently need to replace a battery in something. It would be
nice to have just one central battery and not worry about it except once
every several years!

"Bill" wrote in message
And I've had problems with phone answering machines which need to have the
time reset each time the power goes out. Or other models the batteries
wear out quickly during a power outage. So my phone answering machine
needs constant attention!

Are you sure? Mine will re-set on the first incoming call.

On Sat, 03 Oct 2009 00:22:41 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

Bill wrote:
How about getting rid of all those batteries in various devices in the home
and connecting the battery connections to one central battery?

That is to run separate wires when wiring a home and these would carry say
12 volts DC. There would be a central large battery and battery charger like
the type used in a computer UPS.

Then at each electronic gizmo which needs a battery, use a "battery
eliminator" along with a voltage regulator to supply it with the correct
voltage. And plug this into a nearby 12 volts DC "outlet".

This could provide battery power to smoke detectors, carbon monoxide
detectors, HVAC thermostat, security system, clocks, digital thermometers,
computer UPS, phone answering machine, etc.

Then only ONE battery to worry about...

A 9 volt battery eliminator picture...
http://www.wirelessmicrocolorcam.com... 7a77410624ea



My suggestion would be for a 48 volt DC system.

Think "transformer".

Plain
old telephone service uses 48 volts DC for battery and
PoE, power over Ethernet is usually 48 volts DC.

The maximum "safe" voltage. There is a reason power transmission is
in the hundreds of KV. AC.

The
wire size could be smaller than that for a lower voltage
system and the 78xx type regulators are very inexpensive
and come in a variety of wattage ratings for stepping
down the voltages.

You really want to waste power, don't you?

The technology to pull it off is not
exotic and can be done with all off the shelf parts.
Solar and wind power could integrate quite easily with
such a system.

Not everyone wants to waste ten times the power they use.

On Sat, 3 Oct 2009 04:35:59 -0700, "Bill"
wrote:

[snip]

And I've had problems with phone answering machines which need to have the
time reset each time the power goes out. Or other models the batteries wear
out quickly during a power outage. So my phone answering machine needs
constant attention!


New ones usually support caller ID. With that, the time is set
automatically with each call.

[snip]
--
83 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us

"How could you ask me to believe in God when there's
absolutely no evidence that I can see?" -- Jodie Foster

krw wrote:
On Sat, 03 Oct 2009 00:22:41 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

Bill wrote:
How about getting rid of all those batteries in various devices in the home
and connecting the battery connections to one central battery?

That is to run separate wires when wiring a home and these would carry say
12 volts DC. There would be a central large battery and battery charger like
the type used in a computer UPS.

Then at each electronic gizmo which needs a battery, use a "battery
eliminator" along with a voltage regulator to supply it with the correct
voltage. And plug this into a nearby 12 volts DC "outlet".

This could provide battery power to smoke detectors, carbon monoxide
detectors, HVAC thermostat, security system, clocks, digital thermometers,
computer UPS, phone answering machine, etc.

Then only ONE battery to worry about...

A 9 volt battery eliminator picture...
http://www.wirelessmicrocolorcam.com... 7a77410624ea


My suggestion would be for a 48 volt DC system.

Think "transformer".

Plain
old telephone service uses 48 volts DC for battery and
PoE, power over Ethernet is usually 48 volts DC.

The maximum "safe" voltage. There is a reason power transmission is
in the hundreds of KV. AC.

The
wire size could be smaller than that for a lower voltage
system and the 78xx type regulators are very inexpensive
and come in a variety of wattage ratings for stepping
down the voltages.

You really want to waste power, don't you?

The technology to pull it off is not
exotic and can be done with all off the shelf parts.
Solar and wind power could integrate quite easily with
such a system.

Not everyone wants to waste ten times the power they use.

Do you have the slightest clue of what the discussion
is about? It's a hypothetical discussion about a DC power
distribution system for a home. I neither seek to impose
a standard or ridicule the ideas of others. I do have about
four decades of experience with all things electrical and
electronic but sadly, I don't know everything. I wish I did.

TDD

Bill wrote:
How about getting rid of all those batteries in various devices in the home
and connecting the battery connections to one central battery?

That is to run separate wires when wiring a home and these would carry say
12 volts DC. There would be a central large battery and battery charger like
the type used in a computer UPS.

Then at each electronic gizmo which needs a battery, use a "battery
eliminator" along with a voltage regulator to supply it with the correct
voltage. And plug this into a nearby 12 volts DC "outlet".

This could provide battery power to smoke detectors, carbon monoxide
detectors, HVAC thermostat, security system, clocks, digital thermometers,
computer UPS, phone answering machine, etc.

Then only ONE battery to worry about...

A 9 volt battery eliminator picture...
http://www.wirelessmicrocolorcam.com... 7a77410624ea


Pretty impractical because there is a single point of failure.

You can consolidate a lot of it for a good start. For example in our
house we have an alarm panel which powers all of the smoke and CO alarms
and of course the security system.

What does a phone answering machine do?

The Daring Dufas wrote:
krw wrote:
On Sat, 03 Oct 2009 00:22:41 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

Bill wrote:
How about getting rid of all those batteries in various devices in
the home and connecting the battery connections to one central battery?

That is to run separate wires when wiring a home and these would
carry say 12 volts DC. There would be a central large battery and
battery charger like the type used in a computer UPS.

Then at each electronic gizmo which needs a battery, use a "battery
eliminator" along with a voltage regulator to supply it with the
correct voltage. And plug this into a nearby 12 volts DC "outlet".

This could provide battery power to smoke detectors, carbon monoxide
detectors, HVAC thermostat, security system, clocks, digital
thermometers, computer UPS, phone answering machine, etc.

Then only ONE battery to worry about...

A 9 volt battery eliminator picture...
http://www.wirelessmicrocolorcam.com... 7a77410624ea



My suggestion would be for a 48 volt DC system.

Think "transformer".

Plain
old telephone service uses 48 volts DC for battery and
PoE, power over Ethernet is usually 48 volts DC.

The maximum "safe" voltage. There is a reason power transmission is
in the hundreds of KV. AC.

The
wire size could be smaller than that for a lower voltage
system and the 78xx type regulators are very inexpensive
and come in a variety of wattage ratings for stepping
down the voltages.

You really want to waste power, don't you?

The technology to pull it off is not
exotic and can be done with all off the shelf parts.
Solar and wind power could integrate quite easily with
such a system.

Not everyone wants to waste ten times the power they use.

Do you have the slightest clue of what the discussion
is about? It's a hypothetical discussion about a DC power
distribution system for a home. I neither seek to impose
a standard or ridicule the ideas of others. I do have about
four decades of experience with all things electrical and
electronic but sadly, I don't know everything. I wish I did.

TDD

I am guessing his point was that linear regulators such as the 78xx
series are quite inefficient.

George wrote:

The Daring Dufas wrote:
krw wrote:
On Sat, 03 Oct 2009 00:22:41 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

Bill wrote:
How about getting rid of all those batteries in various devices in
the home and connecting the battery connections to one central battery?

That is to run separate wires when wiring a home and these would
carry say 12 volts DC. There would be a central large battery and
battery charger like the type used in a computer UPS.

Then at each electronic gizmo which needs a battery, use a "battery
eliminator" along with a voltage regulator to supply it with the
correct voltage. And plug this into a nearby 12 volts DC "outlet".

This could provide battery power to smoke detectors, carbon monoxide
detectors, HVAC thermostat, security system, clocks, digital
thermometers, computer UPS, phone answering machine, etc.

Then only ONE battery to worry about...

A 9 volt battery eliminator picture...
http://www.wirelessmicrocolorcam.com... 7a77410624ea



My suggestion would be for a 48 volt DC system.

Think "transformer".

Plain
old telephone service uses 48 volts DC for battery and
PoE, power over Ethernet is usually 48 volts DC.

The maximum "safe" voltage. There is a reason power transmission is
in the hundreds of KV. AC.

The
wire size could be smaller than that for a lower voltage
system and the 78xx type regulators are very inexpensive
and come in a variety of wattage ratings for stepping
down the voltages.

You really want to waste power, don't you?

The technology to pull it off is not
exotic and can be done with all off the shelf parts.
Solar and wind power could integrate quite easily with
such a system.

Not everyone wants to waste ten times the power they use.

Do you have the slightest clue of what the discussion
is about? It's a hypothetical discussion about a DC power
distribution system for a home. I neither seek to impose
a standard or ridicule the ideas of others. I do have about
four decades of experience with all things electrical and
electronic but sadly, I don't know everything. I wish I did.

TDD

I am guessing his point was that linear regulators such as the 78xx
series are quite inefficient.


and have a 35 volt limit on the input voltage. Even if one could
handle 48 VDC at the input, a 7805 with a 1 amp load would waste 43
watts as heat just to power a 5 watt load.

--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!

My suggestion would be for a 48 volt DC system. Plain
old telephone service uses 48 volts DC for battery and
PoE, power over Ethernet is usually 48 volts DC. The
wire size could be smaller than that for a lower voltage
system and the 78xx type regulators are very inexpensive
and come in a variety of wattage ratings for stepping
down the voltages. The technology to pull it off is not
exotic and can be done with all off the shelf parts.
Solar and wind power could integrate quite easily with
such a system.

TDD



And what would be the advantage? The 78xx series are linear regulators,
they are in effect a regulated resistor that burns up the excess voltage
in the form of heat. On top of that, they max out at 37V input at which
point a substantial heatsink is required to dissipate the heat. The end
result is FAR less efficient than even the lousy iron class II
transformers found in most wall warts and small appliances.

You could use a switchmode regulator to get decent efficiency, but once
you've gone that route, you may as well just use 120V or 240VAC since
the additional components required are trivial.

Solar and wind power can easily integrate with the existing grid, with
the additional advantage of being able to sell excess capacity back to
the utility. The cost of the special inverter is low compared to what
the panels cost, and dropping all the time. This proposed DC system is
just reinventing the wheel with something inferior to what we already have.

On Sat, 03 Oct 2009 16:51:51 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

krw wrote:
On Sat, 03 Oct 2009 00:22:41 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

Bill wrote:
How about getting rid of all those batteries in various devices in the home
and connecting the battery connections to one central battery?

That is to run separate wires when wiring a home and these would carry say
12 volts DC. There would be a central large battery and battery charger like
the type used in a computer UPS.

Then at each electronic gizmo which needs a battery, use a "battery
eliminator" along with a voltage regulator to supply it with the correct
voltage. And plug this into a nearby 12 volts DC "outlet".

This could provide battery power to smoke detectors, carbon monoxide
detectors, HVAC thermostat, security system, clocks, digital thermometers,
computer UPS, phone answering machine, etc.

Then only ONE battery to worry about...

A 9 volt battery eliminator picture...
http://www.wirelessmicrocolorcam.com... 7a77410624ea


My suggestion would be for a 48 volt DC system.

Think "transformer".

Plain
old telephone service uses 48 volts DC for battery and
PoE, power over Ethernet is usually 48 volts DC.

The maximum "safe" voltage. There is a reason power transmission is
in the hundreds of KV. AC.

The
wire size could be smaller than that for a lower voltage
system and the 78xx type regulators are very inexpensive
and come in a variety of wattage ratings for stepping
down the voltages.

You really want to waste power, don't you?

The technology to pull it off is not
exotic and can be done with all off the shelf parts.
Solar and wind power could integrate quite easily with
such a system.

Not everyone wants to waste ten times the power they use.

Do you have the slightest clue of what the discussion
is about? It's a hypothetical discussion about a DC power
distribution system for a home.

DO you have the *slightest* clue about electronics? No, I didn't
think so. To answer your question, yes, I can read and understand
your post quite well. ...well enough to know you're clueless.

I neither seek to impose
a standard or ridicule the ideas of others.

Think before posting in an electrical engineering (science) group.

I do have about
four decades of experience with all things electrical and
electronic but sadly, I don't know everything. I wish I did.

You clearly haven't and don't.

The short story is that linear regulators waste tremendous power,
particularly in this application (large voltage drops), making your
idea worthy of ridicule.

There is a very good reason AC is used to transmit power. Thinking
that your brainchild throws out a hundred years of practice is another
reason it's worthy of ridicule.

Michael A. Terrell wrote:
George wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote:
krw wrote:
On Sat, 03 Oct 2009 00:22:41 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

Bill wrote:
How about getting rid of all those batteries in various devices in
the home and connecting the battery connections to one central battery?

That is to run separate wires when wiring a home and these would
carry say 12 volts DC. There would be a central large battery and
battery charger like the type used in a computer UPS.

Then at each electronic gizmo which needs a battery, use a "battery
eliminator" along with a voltage regulator to supply it with the
correct voltage. And plug this into a nearby 12 volts DC "outlet".

This could provide battery power to smoke detectors, carbon monoxide
detectors, HVAC thermostat, security system, clocks, digital
thermometers, computer UPS, phone answering machine, etc.

Then only ONE battery to worry about...

A 9 volt battery eliminator picture...
http://www.wirelessmicrocolorcam.com... 7a77410624ea



My suggestion would be for a 48 volt DC system.
Think "transformer".

Plain
old telephone service uses 48 volts DC for battery and
PoE, power over Ethernet is usually 48 volts DC.
The maximum "safe" voltage. There is a reason power transmission is
in the hundreds of KV. AC.

The
wire size could be smaller than that for a lower voltage
system and the 78xx type regulators are very inexpensive
and come in a variety of wattage ratings for stepping
down the voltages.
You really want to waste power, don't you?

The technology to pull it off is not
exotic and can be done with all off the shelf parts.
Solar and wind power could integrate quite easily with
such a system.
Not everyone wants to waste ten times the power they use.
Do you have the slightest clue of what the discussion
is about? It's a hypothetical discussion about a DC power
distribution system for a home. I neither seek to impose
a standard or ridicule the ideas of others. I do have about
four decades of experience with all things electrical and
electronic but sadly, I don't know everything. I wish I did.

TDD
I am guessing his point was that linear regulators such as the 78xx
series are quite inefficient.


and have a 35 volt limit on the input voltage. Even if one could
handle 48 VDC at the input, a 7805 with a 1 amp load would waste 43
watts as heat just to power a 5 watt load.


I was thinking about the 35 volt limit and the fact that the
78xx regulators are linear regulators but for low power needs
what's a power resister and a 78xx regulator going to waste?
DC to DC converters are a lot cheaper than they used to be
and for a heavy load like a laptop I would use something like
that. A "greenish" home with things like LED lighting and
thermoelectric refrigeration could be an interesting use for
a 48 volt DC system in a home. An LCD TV, a surround sound
system and all manner of the electronic gizmos that we can't
live without these days could be adapted to a 48 volt DC
system. I don't remember the part numbers but I remember a
line of controllers made by Linear Technology Corporation
that have input voltages that can range up to 60 volts DC
and provide a constant DC output regardless of the varying
DC input. There are some interesting developments with thermo-
electric air conditioning and I think that a 48 volt DC power
source would be great for that. For someone living off the
grid, a 48 volt system could use 12-2 Romex instead of a large
wire size needed for a 12 volt system to carry the increased
current. I find it an interesting concept.

TDD

krw wrote:
On Sat, 03 Oct 2009 16:51:51 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

krw wrote:
On Sat, 03 Oct 2009 00:22:41 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

Bill wrote:
How about getting rid of all those batteries in various devices in the home
and connecting the battery connections to one central battery?

That is to run separate wires when wiring a home and these would carry say
12 volts DC. There would be a central large battery and battery charger like
the type used in a computer UPS.

Then at each electronic gizmo which needs a battery, use a "battery
eliminator" along with a voltage regulator to supply it with the correct
voltage. And plug this into a nearby 12 volts DC "outlet".

This could provide battery power to smoke detectors, carbon monoxide
detectors, HVAC thermostat, security system, clocks, digital thermometers,
computer UPS, phone answering machine, etc.

Then only ONE battery to worry about...

A 9 volt battery eliminator picture...
http://www.wirelessmicrocolorcam.com... 7a77410624ea


My suggestion would be for a 48 volt DC system.
Think "transformer".

Plain
old telephone service uses 48 volts DC for battery and
PoE, power over Ethernet is usually 48 volts DC.
The maximum "safe" voltage. There is a reason power transmission is
in the hundreds of KV. AC.

The
wire size could be smaller than that for a lower voltage
system and the 78xx type regulators are very inexpensive
and come in a variety of wattage ratings for stepping
down the voltages.
You really want to waste power, don't you?

The technology to pull it off is not
exotic and can be done with all off the shelf parts.
Solar and wind power could integrate quite easily with
such a system.
Not everyone wants to waste ten times the power they use.
Do you have the slightest clue of what the discussion
is about? It's a hypothetical discussion about a DC power
distribution system for a home.

DO you have the *slightest* clue about electronics? No, I didn't
think so. To answer your question, yes, I can read and understand
your post quite well. ...well enough to know you're clueless.

I neither seek to impose
a standard or ridicule the ideas of others.

Think before posting in an electrical engineering (science) group.

I do have about
four decades of experience with all things electrical and
electronic but sadly, I don't know everything. I wish I did.

You clearly haven't and don't.

The short story is that linear regulators waste tremendous power,
particularly in this application (large voltage drops), making your
idea worthy of ridicule.

There is a very good reason AC is used to transmit power. Thinking
that your brainchild throws out a hundred years of practice is another
reason it's worthy of ridicule.


Well professor, I would only use the damn things for low
power applications. For any kind of load, a DC-DC converter
would be the way to go. Remember, it's just a discussion
about possibilities. Good grief, 78xx regulators are very
inexpensive and DC-DC controllers are getting that way too.
Ridicule bothers me not because as a small boy I had Irish
nuns for teachers. That's also why I have no fear of terrorists.
I'll take Tesla's power distribution system over Edison's any
day. Darn, now I'm gonna have to go out in the back yard and
try to build one of those power transmitting towers that
Nikola used to play around with. Do you scream at your TV
too?

TDD

James Sweet wrote:


My suggestion would be for a 48 volt DC system. Plain
old telephone service uses 48 volts DC for battery and
PoE, power over Ethernet is usually 48 volts DC. The
wire size could be smaller than that for a lower voltage
system and the 78xx type regulators are very inexpensive
and come in a variety of wattage ratings for stepping
down the voltages. The technology to pull it off is not
exotic and can be done with all off the shelf parts.
Solar and wind power could integrate quite easily with
such a system.

TDD



And what would be the advantage? The 78xx series are linear regulators,
they are in effect a regulated resistor that burns up the excess voltage
in the form of heat. On top of that, they max out at 37V input at which
point a substantial heatsink is required to dissipate the heat. The end
result is FAR less efficient than even the lousy iron class II
transformers found in most wall warts and small appliances.

You could use a switchmode regulator to get decent efficiency, but once
you've gone that route, you may as well just use 120V or 240VAC since
the additional components required are trivial.

Solar and wind power can easily integrate with the existing grid, with
the additional advantage of being able to sell excess capacity back to
the utility. The cost of the special inverter is low compared to what
the panels cost, and dropping all the time. This proposed DC system is
just reinventing the wheel with something inferior to what we already have.

I was thinking about it as an off the grid system. I would
imagine that a single high current DC to AC converter in the
battery room putting out standard AC power to a home would
be more practical than trying to reinvent all the appliances
and gadgetry. Tesla won the battle for the power distribution
system and I'm glad of it. There are those very high voltage
DC power transmission lines. I'm going to have to read up on
them and find out why they're using DC. It's been 20 years
since I worked on any high voltage power distribution systems.
Have you ever used a wooden hot stick? Make sure it's dry.

TDD

On Sun, 04 Oct 2009 03:31:58 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:
George wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote:
krw wrote:
On Sat, 03 Oct 2009 00:22:41 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

Bill wrote:
How about getting rid of all those batteries in various devices in
the home and connecting the battery connections to one central battery?

That is to run separate wires when wiring a home and these would
carry say 12 volts DC. There would be a central large battery and
battery charger like the type used in a computer UPS.

Then at each electronic gizmo which needs a battery, use a "battery
eliminator" along with a voltage regulator to supply it with the
correct voltage. And plug this into a nearby 12 volts DC "outlet".

This could provide battery power to smoke detectors, carbon monoxide
detectors, HVAC thermostat, security system, clocks, digital
thermometers, computer UPS, phone answering machine, etc.

Then only ONE battery to worry about...

A 9 volt battery eliminator picture...
http://www.wirelessmicrocolorcam.com... 7a77410624ea



My suggestion would be for a 48 volt DC system.
Think "transformer".

Plain
old telephone service uses 48 volts DC for battery and
PoE, power over Ethernet is usually 48 volts DC.
The maximum "safe" voltage. There is a reason power transmission is
in the hundreds of KV. AC.

The
wire size could be smaller than that for a lower voltage
system and the 78xx type regulators are very inexpensive
and come in a variety of wattage ratings for stepping
down the voltages.
You really want to waste power, don't you?

The technology to pull it off is not
exotic and can be done with all off the shelf parts.
Solar and wind power could integrate quite easily with
such a system.
Not everyone wants to waste ten times the power they use.
Do you have the slightest clue of what the discussion
is about? It's a hypothetical discussion about a DC power
distribution system for a home. I neither seek to impose
a standard or ridicule the ideas of others. I do have about
four decades of experience with all things electrical and
electronic but sadly, I don't know everything. I wish I did.

TDD
I am guessing his point was that linear regulators such as the 78xx
series are quite inefficient.


and have a 35 volt limit on the input voltage. Even if one could
handle 48 VDC at the input, a 7805 with a 1 amp load would waste 43
watts as heat just to power a 5 watt load.


I was thinking about the 35 volt limit and the fact that the
78xx regulators are linear regulators but for low power needs
what's a power resister and a 78xx regulator going to waste?
DC to DC converters are a lot cheaper than they used to be
and for a heavy load like a laptop I would use something like
that. A "greenish" home with things like LED lighting and
thermoelectric refrigeration could be an interesting use for
a 48 volt DC system in a home. An LCD TV, a surround sound
system and all manner of the electronic gizmos that we can't
live without these days could be adapted to a 48 volt DC
system. I don't remember the part numbers but I remember a
line of controllers made by Linear Technology Corporation
that have input voltages that can range up to 60 volts DC
and provide a constant DC output regardless of the varying
DC input. There are some interesting developments with thermo-
electric air conditioning and I think that a 48 volt DC power
source would be great for that. For someone living off the
grid, a 48 volt system could use 12-2 Romex instead of a large
wire size needed for a 12 volt system to carry the increased
current. I find it an interesting concept.

TDD


My house has outlets all around that do not use any power at all unless
I attach a device to one, and then it only uses what that device needs to
operate.

Your long line, low voltage "idea" is wasteful from the get go,
regardless of the regulation device you should choose. Since you are
unable to grasp why it is wasteful, you are unable to handle any of the
advice you get about it here, and you are ridiculed, by your own hand.

Your "idea" is an old one, and the facts were ironed out decades ago.
So take your idea and use it to stuff the obviously vast empty space
between your ears.

On Oct 3, 5:35 am, "Bill" wrote:
THIS DOES'NT MAKE MUCH SENSE
IT IS DOABLE BUT WHY ?

In my case, basically for higher reliability of some electronic gizmos. Also
to have pretty much maintenance free electronic gizmos so far as battery
replacement goes.

I live in a rural area and the electricity goes out at least twice a
month...

And I've had problems with phone answering machines which need to have the
time reset each time the power goes out. Or other models the batteries wear
out quickly during a power outage. So my phone answering machine needs
constant attention!

Then I have about 7 battery operated clocks (due to power outages), 6
battery electronic thermometers for temperature monitoring because I have a
wood stove and want to keep an eye on the temperatures when I am in other
rooms of the house, then about 6 battery smoke detectors / CO detectors
everywhere (again for wood stove monitoring).

Basically I frequently need to replace a battery in something. It would be
nice to have just one central battery and not worry about it except once
every several years!

Many items in the home can run off of DC; some can't. The big problem
with DC systems is excessive current draw and the corresponding
voltage drop. In order to use existing house wiring (12 and 14 ga),
the DC voltage would have to be much higher than 48V. At 48 volts the
current draw for any AC device would be more than double. Watts =
volts times amps. If your toaster draws 1000W and your voltage supply
s 48VDC, then you need over 20 amps to run the toaster. Standard
outlets are rated for 15A. Then theres the problem of motors (fans,
heater blower, refrigerator compressor, jacuzzi pump, etc). An AC
motor can not work on DC. However, many motors in the home are what
are called "universal" motors. These motors work for AC and DC. Most
power tools and small kitchen appliances use universal motors. For
example, a coffee grinder will run on DC, although it needs about
40-50V to get started.

And yet there is another problem of electric generation, and that's
another can of worms altogether. 100 years ago this country struggled
over the AC/DC concept for the electrical grid. Edison was a
proponent of the DC system, and Westinghouse was a proponent of the AC
system. There's a great book called "The Empires of Light" which
describes the technological and political wars related to this
struggle.

Having said all this, if I lived in a rural area, far from services, I
would have a DC battery storage system in my house/garage.

AG

On Sun, 04 Oct 2009 03:31:58 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:
George wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote:
krw wrote:
On Sat, 03 Oct 2009 00:22:41 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

Bill wrote:
How about getting rid of all those batteries in various devices in
the home and connecting the battery connections to one central battery?

That is to run separate wires when wiring a home and these would
carry say 12 volts DC. There would be a central large battery and
battery charger like the type used in a computer UPS.

Then at each electronic gizmo which needs a battery, use a "battery
eliminator" along with a voltage regulator to supply it with the
correct voltage. And plug this into a nearby 12 volts DC "outlet".

This could provide battery power to smoke detectors, carbon monoxide
detectors, HVAC thermostat, security system, clocks, digital
thermometers, computer UPS, phone answering machine, etc.

Then only ONE battery to worry about...

A 9 volt battery eliminator picture...
http://www.wirelessmicrocolorcam.com... 7a77410624ea



My suggestion would be for a 48 volt DC system.
Think "transformer".

Plain
old telephone service uses 48 volts DC for battery and
PoE, power over Ethernet is usually 48 volts DC.
The maximum "safe" voltage. There is a reason power transmission is
in the hundreds of KV. AC.

The
wire size could be smaller than that for a lower voltage
system and the 78xx type regulators are very inexpensive
and come in a variety of wattage ratings for stepping
down the voltages.
You really want to waste power, don't you?

The technology to pull it off is not
exotic and can be done with all off the shelf parts.
Solar and wind power could integrate quite easily with
such a system.
Not everyone wants to waste ten times the power they use.
Do you have the slightest clue of what the discussion
is about? It's a hypothetical discussion about a DC power
distribution system for a home. I neither seek to impose
a standard or ridicule the ideas of others. I do have about
four decades of experience with all things electrical and
electronic but sadly, I don't know everything. I wish I did.

TDD
I am guessing his point was that linear regulators such as the 78xx
series are quite inefficient.


and have a 35 volt limit on the input voltage. Even if one could
handle 48 VDC at the input, a 7805 with a 1 amp load would waste 43
watts as heat just to power a 5 watt load.


I was thinking about the 35 volt limit and the fact that the
78xx regulators are linear regulators but for low power needs
what's a power resister and a 78xx regulator going to waste?

The same as the ratio of the voltages. For a 5V device, you're
wasting 7 times as much as you use. Most people don't consider that
smart.

DC to DC converters are a lot cheaper than they used to be
and for a heavy load like a laptop I would use something like
that. A "greenish" home with things like LED lighting and
thermoelectric refrigeration could be an interesting use for
a 48 volt DC system in a home. An LCD TV, a surround sound
system and all manner of the electronic gizmos that we can't
live without these days could be adapted to a 48 volt DC
system. I don't remember the part numbers but I remember a
line of controllers made by Linear Technology Corporation
that have input voltages that can range up to 60 volts DC
and provide a constant DC output regardless of the varying
DC input. There are some interesting developments with thermo-
electric air conditioning and I think that a 48 volt DC power
source would be great for that. For someone living off the
grid, a 48 volt system could use 12-2 Romex instead of a large
wire size needed for a 12 volt system to carry the increased
current. I find it an interesting concept.

Could be smart.

On Sun, 04 Oct 2009 03:51:51 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

krw wrote:
On Sat, 03 Oct 2009 16:51:51 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

krw wrote:
On Sat, 03 Oct 2009 00:22:41 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

Bill wrote:
How about getting rid of all those batteries in various devices in the home
and connecting the battery connections to one central battery?

That is to run separate wires when wiring a home and these would carry say
12 volts DC. There would be a central large battery and battery charger like
the type used in a computer UPS.

Then at each electronic gizmo which needs a battery, use a "battery
eliminator" along with a voltage regulator to supply it with the correct
voltage. And plug this into a nearby 12 volts DC "outlet".

This could provide battery power to smoke detectors, carbon monoxide
detectors, HVAC thermostat, security system, clocks, digital thermometers,
computer UPS, phone answering machine, etc.

Then only ONE battery to worry about...

A 9 volt battery eliminator picture...
http://www.wirelessmicrocolorcam.com... 7a77410624ea


My suggestion would be for a 48 volt DC system.
Think "transformer".

Plain
old telephone service uses 48 volts DC for battery and
PoE, power over Ethernet is usually 48 volts DC.
The maximum "safe" voltage. There is a reason power transmission is
in the hundreds of KV. AC.

The
wire size could be smaller than that for a lower voltage
system and the 78xx type regulators are very inexpensive
and come in a variety of wattage ratings for stepping
down the voltages.
You really want to waste power, don't you?

The technology to pull it off is not
exotic and can be done with all off the shelf parts.
Solar and wind power could integrate quite easily with
such a system.
Not everyone wants to waste ten times the power they use.
Do you have the slightest clue of what the discussion
is about? It's a hypothetical discussion about a DC power
distribution system for a home.

DO you have the *slightest* clue about electronics? No, I didn't
think so. To answer your question, yes, I can read and understand
your post quite well. ...well enough to know you're clueless.

I neither seek to impose
a standard or ridicule the ideas of others.

Think before posting in an electrical engineering (science) group.

I do have about
four decades of experience with all things electrical and
electronic but sadly, I don't know everything. I wish I did.

You clearly haven't and don't.

The short story is that linear regulators waste tremendous power,
particularly in this application (large voltage drops), making your
idea worthy of ridicule.

There is a very good reason AC is used to transmit power. Thinking
that your brainchild throws out a hundred years of practice is another
reason it's worthy of ridicule.


Well professor, I would only use the damn things for low
power applications.

So you're going to add another level of wiring into homes. Real
smart.

For any kind of load, a DC-DC converter
would be the way to go.

Why not stay with the AC distribution we have and use a small power
supply for those things that need low power. Oh, that's what we are
doing.

Remember, it's just a discussion
about possibilities. Good grief, 78xx regulators are very
inexpensive and DC-DC controllers are getting that way too.

They're *very* wasteful too. I don't want my power bills to go up 7x.

Ridicule bothers me not because as a small boy I had Irish
nuns for teachers. That's also why I have no fear of terrorists.
I'll take Tesla's power distribution system over Edison's any
day. Darn, now I'm gonna have to go out in the back yard and
try to build one of those power transmitting towers that
Nikola used to play around with. Do you scream at your TV
too?

IOW, you're simply stupid as a stone.

Remember, it's just a discussion
about possibilities. Good grief, 78xx regulators are very
inexpensive and DC-DC controllers are getting that way too.

They're *very* wasteful too. I don't want my power bills to go up 7x.



In all fairness, DC-DC converters can exceed 95% efficiency, and 85% is
common. They're really not too bad.

The class II transformers used to power most small stuff are down around
50%. It's one reason switchmode power supplies have become popular for
those applications. A SMPS is nothing but a DC-DC converter that first
rectifies the AC line to DC.

krw wrote:
On Sun, 04 Oct 2009 03:51:51 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

krw wrote:
On Sat, 03 Oct 2009 16:51:51 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

krw wrote:
On Sat, 03 Oct 2009 00:22:41 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

Bill wrote:
How about getting rid of all those batteries in various devices in the home
and connecting the battery connections to one central battery?

That is to run separate wires when wiring a home and these would carry say
12 volts DC. There would be a central large battery and battery charger like
the type used in a computer UPS.

Then at each electronic gizmo which needs a battery, use a "battery
eliminator" along with a voltage regulator to supply it with the correct
voltage. And plug this into a nearby 12 volts DC "outlet".

This could provide battery power to smoke detectors, carbon monoxide
detectors, HVAC thermostat, security system, clocks, digital thermometers,
computer UPS, phone answering machine, etc.

Then only ONE battery to worry about...

A 9 volt battery eliminator picture...
http://www.wirelessmicrocolorcam.com... 7a77410624ea


My suggestion would be for a 48 volt DC system.
Think "transformer".

Plain
old telephone service uses 48 volts DC for battery and
PoE, power over Ethernet is usually 48 volts DC.
The maximum "safe" voltage. There is a reason power transmission is
in the hundreds of KV. AC.

The
wire size could be smaller than that for a lower voltage
system and the 78xx type regulators are very inexpensive
and come in a variety of wattage ratings for stepping
down the voltages.
You really want to waste power, don't you?

The technology to pull it off is not
exotic and can be done with all off the shelf parts.
Solar and wind power could integrate quite easily with
such a system.
Not everyone wants to waste ten times the power they use.
Do you have the slightest clue of what the discussion
is about? It's a hypothetical discussion about a DC power
distribution system for a home.

DO you have the *slightest* clue about electronics? No, I didn't
think so. To answer your question, yes, I can read and understand
your post quite well. ...well enough to know you're clueless.

I neither seek to impose
a standard or ridicule the ideas of others.
Think before posting in an electrical engineering (science) group.

I do have about
four decades of experience with all things electrical and
electronic but sadly, I don't know everything. I wish I did.
You clearly haven't and don't.

The short story is that linear regulators waste tremendous power,
particularly in this application (large voltage drops), making your
idea worthy of ridicule.

There is a very good reason AC is used to transmit power. Thinking
that your brainchild throws out a hundred years of practice is another
reason it's worthy of ridicule.

Well professor, I would only use the damn things for low
power applications.

So you're going to add another level of wiring into homes. Real
smart.

For any kind of load, a DC-DC converter
would be the way to go.

Why not stay with the AC distribution we have and use a small power
supply for those things that need low power. Oh, that's what we are
doing.

Remember, it's just a discussion
about possibilities. Good grief, 78xx regulators are very
inexpensive and DC-DC controllers are getting that way too.

They're *very* wasteful too. I don't want my power bills to go up 7x.

Ridicule bothers me not because as a small boy I had Irish
nuns for teachers. That's also why I have no fear of terrorists.
I'll take Tesla's power distribution system over Edison's any
day. Darn, now I'm gonna have to go out in the back yard and
try to build one of those power transmitting towers that
Nikola used to play around with. Do you scream at your TV
too?

IOW, you're simply stupid as a stone.

You still don't get it, it's only an exercise in what's
possible. Look at all the replies on how and why this or
that won't work. That's what a discussion is all about.
Good grief, you've no idea what the term "thought provoking"
means. You get your pointy little head tweaked and result
to name calling? You point out what's wrong with an idea
and that's a good thing. When I ran a crew on a project,
I would deliberately tell them to do something that was
wrong. After having to stop them a few times, the really
smart ones caught on and challenged me. I told them that if
they even had a feeling something was wrong, speak up but
be prepared to explain why. A crew like that can save a
company a lot of money. I once installed a Halon fire
suppression system in a mission control center and the
prints I was given made no sense to me. I argued with the
HMFIC and was told it's on the print, DO IT. The prints
had been prepared by my employer not The Core of Engineers.
The cost of a mistake like that falls on those who supply
the prints. When the manufacturer's rep arrived, he exclaimed,
"These prints are wrong! It's a good thing you didn't go by
this!". Even though I saved the company a great deal of
money, it put a bug up the tailpipe of the HMFIC. Something
about loss of face. Being an agent provocateur is a lot of
fun, keep those ideas coming.

TDD