Hi,

How hard can it be to build something like this:

http://www.radiatorshowroom.co.uk/al...-radiator.html

as a DIY project!? (I'm not talking about achieving the look and
feel.)


My plan is take 1/2 copper tubing (the smaller the diameter the
better, I assume) and weave it back and forth with 90 degree elbows.
Then I will buy a sheet of copper and attach (somehow) to my mesh of
tubing.

Is this idea doomed from the beginning?

If NOT, I would like to get some ideas on:

1. What to make the overall frame out of? I presume it needs to be
quite strong. Perhaps steel welded together?

2. How to attach tubing to the sheet of copper? I can think of copper
brackets with copper bolts. But maybe there is a better way, like some
kind of heat transfer plates and heat conducting glue.

That's good for starters...

Thanks,

Aaron

On Sep 21, 10:54*am, Aaron Fude wrote:
Hi,

How hard can it be to build something like this:

http://www.radiatorshowroom.co.uk/al...-radiator.html

as a DIY project!? (I'm not talking about achieving the look and
feel.)

My plan is take 1/2 copper tubing (the smaller the diameter the
better, I assume) and weave it back and forth with 90 degree elbows.
Then I will buy a sheet of copper and attach (somehow) to my mesh of
tubing.

Is this idea doomed from the beginning?

If NOT, I would like to get some ideas on:

1. What to make the overall frame out of? I presume it needs to be
quite strong. Perhaps steel welded together?

2. How to attach tubing to the sheet of copper? I can think of copper
brackets with copper bolts. But maybe there is a better way, like some
kind of heat transfer plates and heat conducting glue.

That's good for starters...

Thanks,

Aaron

Is this a hot water or steam system?

Yes, it is doable.

but your first assumption is (imo) incorrect and will send oyu in the
wrong direction.

you need to know how much heat you need out of the unit.....
undersize, it wont be able to deliver enough heat
oversize, (you can always throttle the water flow) you waste money on
materials & fabrication..

I wouldn't bolt it together...too clunky. I'd sweat (torch) the plate
onto the pipes or have the assembly furnace brazed

do you want the flat plat look or is the ladder look ok? If the
ladder look is ok...I'd do 1" or 3/4" uprights with 1/2" (5/8 od) or
smaller "rungs".

since oyu're probably going to make a couple mods to your prototype
before it works (I assume you cant do heat transfer calcs?)

....I suggest you keep it simple & build the easiest way for your
skills & experience and build with the thought that you;re going to
modify it.

Give a try & then modify as needed.

cheers
Bob

on 9/21/2009 1:54 PM (ET) Aaron Fude wrote the following:
Hi,

How hard can it be to build something like this:

http://www.radiatorshowroom.co.uk/al...-radiator.html

as a DIY project!? (I'm not talking about achieving the look and
feel.)


My plan is take 1/2 copper tubing (the smaller the diameter the
better, I assume) and weave it back and forth with 90 degree elbows.
Then I will buy a sheet of copper and attach (somehow) to my mesh of
tubing.

Is this idea doomed from the beginning?

If NOT, I would like to get some ideas on:

1. What to make the overall frame out of? I presume it needs to be
quite strong. Perhaps steel welded together?

2. How to attach tubing to the sheet of copper? I can think of copper
brackets with copper bolts. But maybe there is a better way, like some
kind of heat transfer plates and heat conducting glue.

That's good for starters...

Thanks,

Aaron

I hope it doesn't get too hot being right next to the stairs where
someone may put their hand on it to steady their self.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

"Aaron Fude" wrote in message
...
Hi,

How hard can it be to build something like this:

http://www.radiatorshowroom.co.uk/al...-radiator.html

as a DIY project!? (I'm not talking about achieving the look and
feel.)


My plan is take 1/2 copper tubing (the smaller the diameter the
better, I assume) and weave it back and forth with 90 degree elbows.
Then I will buy a sheet of copper and attach (somehow) to my mesh of
tubing.

Is this idea doomed from the beginning?

If NOT, I would like to get some ideas on:

1. What to make the overall frame out of? I presume it needs to be
quite strong. Perhaps steel welded together?

2. How to attach tubing to the sheet of copper? I can think of copper
brackets with copper bolts. But maybe there is a better way, like some
kind of heat transfer plates and heat conducting glue.

Hanging on the wall that high will waste heat by over warming the ceiling.

On Sep 21, 3:16*pm, willshak wrote:


Aaron

* I hope it doesn't get too hot being right next to the stairs where
someone may put their hand on it to steady their self.

- Show quoted text -

You are assuming facts not yet in evidence.

We don't know yet whether he intends to heat or cool with this
radiator.

Granted, heating is more usual, but they are used both ways, and cold
plates are becoming more common.

In article
,
Aaron Fude wrote:

Hi,

How hard can it be to build something like this:

http://www.radiatorshowroom.co.uk/al...-radiator.html

as a DIY project!? (I'm not talking about achieving the look and
feel.)


My plan is take 1/2 copper tubing (the smaller the diameter the
better, I assume) and weave it back and forth with 90 degree elbows.
Then I will buy a sheet of copper and attach (somehow) to my mesh of
tubing.

Is this idea doomed from the beginning?

If NOT, I would like to get some ideas on:

1. What to make the overall frame out of? I presume it needs to be
quite strong. Perhaps steel welded together?

2. How to attach tubing to the sheet of copper? I can think of copper
brackets with copper bolts. But maybe there is a better way, like some
kind of heat transfer plates and heat conducting glue.

That's good for starters...

Thanks,

Aaron


Is cost an issue? Checking MSC I see a sheet of .125" x 24 x 48 copper
is running right around $900.

-Frank

--
Here's some of my work:
http://www.franksknives.com/

I'd suggest Wirsbo, or some other tubes in the floor design.
That could be made, but a lot of work and bother.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Aaron Fude" wrote in message
...
Hi,

How hard can it be to build something like this:

http://www.radiatorshowroom.co.uk/al...-radiator.html

as a DIY project!? (I'm not talking about achieving the look
and
feel.)


My plan is take 1/2 copper tubing (the smaller the diameter
the
better, I assume) and weave it back and forth with 90 degree
elbows.
Then I will buy a sheet of copper and attach (somehow) to my
mesh of
tubing.

Is this idea doomed from the beginning?

If NOT, I would like to get some ideas on:

1. What to make the overall frame out of? I presume it needs
to be
quite strong. Perhaps steel welded together?

2. How to attach tubing to the sheet of copper? I can think
of copper
brackets with copper bolts. But maybe there is a better way,
like some
kind of heat transfer plates and heat conducting glue.

That's good for starters...

Thanks,

Aaron

Aaron Fude wrote:
Hi,

How hard can it be to build something like this:

http://www.radiatorshowroom.co.uk/al...-radiator.html

as a DIY project!? (I'm not talking about achieving the look and
feel.)


My plan is take 1/2 copper tubing (the smaller the diameter the
better, I assume) and weave it back and forth with 90 degree elbows.
Then I will buy a sheet of copper and attach (somehow) to my mesh of
tubing.

Is this idea doomed from the beginning?

If NOT, I would like to get some ideas on:

1. What to make the overall frame out of? I presume it needs to be
quite strong. Perhaps steel welded together?

2. How to attach tubing to the sheet of copper? I can think of copper
brackets with copper bolts. But maybe there is a better way, like some
kind of heat transfer plates and heat conducting glue.

That's good for starters...

Thanks,

Aaron

I was thinking something involving the front six inches of a '32 Ford...
the good news is that repro grille shells are available

nate

(there's probably a reason why there's a standing rule in my house about
all design ideas having to go through final review before implementation...)

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

on 9/21/2009 1:54 PM (ET) Aaron Fude wrote the following:
Hi,

How hard can it be to build something like this:

http://www.radiatorshowroom.co.uk/al...-radiator.html

as a DIY project!? (I'm not talking about achieving the look and
feel.)


My plan is take 1/2 copper tubing (the smaller the diameter the
better, I assume) and weave it back and forth with 90 degree elbows.
Then I will buy a sheet of copper and attach (somehow) to my mesh of
tubing.

Is this idea doomed from the beginning?

If NOT, I would like to get some ideas on:

1. What to make the overall frame out of? I presume it needs to be
quite strong. Perhaps steel welded together?

2. How to attach tubing to the sheet of copper? I can think of copper
brackets with copper bolts. But maybe there is a better way, like some
kind of heat transfer plates and heat conducting glue.

That's good for starters...

Nice looking heaters.

I have a couple of thoughts. Copper is a good heat conductor. Take a look
at some of the systems used for radiant floor heat. They are a serpentine of
plastic tubing backed up by foam insulation. Take a look at the panels on
this page
http://www.crete-heat.com/

You run the tubing in the panels, then adhere the panel to the back of the
copper sheet for good transfer and radiation. Pex requires a lower
temperature than many hot water systems run, about 140 or so.

With a good backing, you don't need much of a frame to support the copper
sheet as this will give it a lot of rigidity. Sort of like a moncoque
construction. You do want to have a frame about 1/4" or more just to avoid
sharp edges. You could also have a metal shop bend a return on the edges to
make it appear thick and add rigidity also.

I saw a couple of negative posts. They are incorrect. The temperature of
the panel will not reach high enough temperatures to burn anyone. The water
may be 140 in the tube, but it is going to be distributed over a large
surface, thus lowering the overall temperature. As for heating the ceiling,
that would only occur if the panel was insulating and you had an updraft
moving the heat. With this design, the heat is radiated outward
horizontally, line of sight.

Once plumbed in place, it will be a rather good looking way to heat the
area. I hope you post some photos of it once completed, and perhaps some of
the progression of how it was done.

Aaron Fude wrote:
Hi,

How hard can it be to build something like this:

http://www.radiatorshowroom.co.uk/al...-radiator.html

I believe the ones on the web site are electric, probably with a
thermostat to keep people from burning themselves on it.


as a DIY project!? (I'm not talking about achieving the look and
feel.)


My plan is take 1/2 copper tubing (the smaller the diameter the
better, I assume) and weave it back and forth with 90 degree elbows.
Then I will buy a sheet of copper and attach (somehow) to my mesh of
tubing.

Is this idea doomed from the beginning?

If NOT, I would like to get some ideas on:

1. What to make the overall frame out of? I presume it needs to be
quite strong. Perhaps steel welded together?

If you get this far, I would make it all copper so it all has
approximatly the same expansion rate.



2. How to attach tubing to the sheet of copper? I can think of copper
brackets with copper bolts. But maybe there is a better way, like some
kind of heat transfer plates and heat conducting glue.

Sweat them on with solder, that should conduct heat better than any glue
and you can take it apart again if needed.


That's good for starters...

OK, if you say so! Good luck!

"Aaron Fude" wrote in message
...
Hi,

How hard can it be to build something like this:

http://www.radiatorshowroom.co.uk/al...-radiator.html

as a DIY project!? (I'm not talking about achieving the look and
feel.)


My plan is take 1/2 copper tubing (the smaller the diameter the
better, I assume) and weave it back and forth with 90 degree elbows.

Use soft copper tubing and get a bender, Each elbow causes friction in the
line costing you more to pump.

You might consider a pair of aluminum plates to sandwitch the copper tubing
between. Aluminum is a whole lot cheaper than copper and paint will change
the color to what ever you want.

I would use some sort of stand offs to hold the assembly away from the wall
an inch or two.

--

Roger Shoaf

About the time I had mastered getting the toothpaste back in the tube, then
they come up with this striped stuff.



Then I will buy a sheet of copper and attach (somehow) to my mesh of
tubing.

Is this idea doomed from the beginning?

If NOT, I would like to get some ideas on:

1. What to make the overall frame out of? I presume it needs to be
quite strong. Perhaps steel welded together?

2. How to attach tubing to the sheet of copper? I can think of copper
brackets with copper bolts. But maybe there is a better way, like some
kind of heat transfer plates and heat conducting glue.

That's good for starters...

Thanks,

Aaron

Roger Shoaf wrote:
"Aaron Fude" wrote in message
...
Hi,

How hard can it be to build something like this:

http://www.radiatorshowroom.co.uk/al...-radiator.html

as a DIY project!? (I'm not talking about achieving the look and
feel.)


My plan is take 1/2 copper tubing (the smaller the diameter the
better, I assume) and weave it back and forth with 90 degree elbows.

Use soft copper tubing and get a bender, Each elbow causes friction in the
line costing you more to pump.

You might consider a pair of aluminum plates to sandwitch the copper tubing
between. Aluminum is a whole lot cheaper than copper and paint will change
the color to what ever you want.

I would use some sort of stand offs to hold the assembly away from the wall
an inch or two.

Thanks Roger (and everyone else who responded).

So I really like your ideas. The one thing that I am not quite imagining
is how to make the whole structure stiff? Seems like copper sandwiched
between aluminum sheets is not very stiff.

Also, what kind of shop would carry sheets of aluminum and something
that can act as stand offs? What should I look for, a metal shop?

Thanks again,

Aaron

On Sep 22, 2:37*pm, Aaron Fude wrote:
Roger Shoaf wrote:
"Aaron Fude" wrote in message
...
Hi,

How hard can it be to build something like this:

http://www.radiatorshowroom.co.uk/al...-radiator.html

as a DIY project!? (I'm not talking about achieving the look and
feel.)

My plan is take 1/2 copper tubing (the smaller the diameter the
better, I assume) and weave it back and forth with 90 degree elbows.

Use soft copper tubing and get a bender, Each elbow causes friction in the
line costing you more to pump.

You might consider a pair of aluminum plates to sandwitch the copper tubing
between. *Aluminum is a whole lot cheaper than copper and paint will change
the color to what ever you want.

I would use some sort of stand offs to hold the assembly away from the wall
an inch or two.

Thanks Roger (and everyone else who responded).

So I really like your ideas. The one thing that I am not quite imagining
is how to make the whole structure stiff? Seems like copper sandwiched
between aluminum sheets is not very stiff.

Also, what kind of shop would carry sheets of aluminum and something
that can act as stand offs? What should I look for, a metal shop?

Thanks again,

Aaron- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I'll bet the back of those is a second sheet of copper that is bent to
form channels.

In article ,
Aaron Fude wrote:

Also, what kind of shop would carry sheets of aluminum and something
that can act as stand offs? What should I look for, a metal shop?

A raw materials distributor. You can buy from eBay or McMaster-Carr, or
call a few machine shops in the area and ask them where they buy metals.
Most machine shops will sell you a small scrap piece of virtually
anything they have, but your requirements are obviously for something
much larger.

I hope you're satisfied with the results of your efforts, but frankly
I'm skeptical.

On Sep 21, 1:54*pm, Aaron Fude wrote:
Hi,

How hard can it be to build something like this:

http://www.radiatorshowroom.co.uk/al...-radiator.html

as a DIY project!? (I'm not talking about achieving the look and
feel.)

My plan is take 1/2 copper tubing (the smaller the diameter the
better, I assume) and weave it back and forth with 90 degree elbows.
Then I will buy a sheet of copper and attach (somehow) to my mesh of
tubing.

Is this idea doomed from the beginning?

If NOT, I would like to get some ideas on:

1. What to make the overall frame out of? I presume it needs to be
quite strong. Perhaps steel welded together?

2. How to attach tubing to the sheet of copper? I can think of copper
brackets with copper bolts. But maybe there is a better way, like some
kind of heat transfer plates and heat conducting glue.

That's good for starters...

Thanks,

Aaron

Check out in floor heating. There are metal panels built to be a snap
fit to the pipe that are basically snap on radiators. These should be
useful for fastening the pipe to the panels.


Jimmie

On Sep 22, 12:54*pm, Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,
*Aaron Fude wrote:

Also, what kind of shop would carry sheets of aluminum and something
that can act as stand offs? What should I look for, a metal shop?

A raw materials distributor. You can buy from eBay or McMaster-Carr, or
call a few machine shops in the area and ask them where they buy metals.
Most machine shops will sell you a small scrap piece of virtually
anything they have, but your requirements are obviously for something
much larger.

I hope you're satisfied with the results of your efforts, but frankly
I'm skeptical.

I'm a bit skeptical as well ........... as to whether you can cost
effectively build something that will work.

I'm positive that you will learn a lot in the process but this is a
pretty ambitious project using expensive materials.

cheers
Bob

Aaron Fude wrote:
Roger Shoaf wrote:
"Aaron Fude" wrote in message
...
Hi,

How hard can it be to build something like this:

http://www.radiatorshowroom.co.uk/al...-radiator.html

as a DIY project!? (I'm not talking about achieving the look and
feel.)


My plan is take 1/2 copper tubing (the smaller the diameter the
better, I assume) and weave it back and forth with 90 degree elbows.

Use soft copper tubing and get a bender, Each elbow causes friction in
the
line costing you more to pump.

You might consider a pair of aluminum plates to sandwitch the copper
tubing
between. Aluminum is a whole lot cheaper than copper and paint will
change
the color to what ever you want.

I would use some sort of stand offs to hold the assembly away from the
wall
an inch or two.

Thanks Roger (and everyone else who responded).

So I really like your ideas. The one thing that I am not quite imagining
is how to make the whole structure stiff? Seems like copper sandwiched
between aluminum sheets is not very stiff.

So you are still planning on making a hot water version of an electric
radiator, or are you using electric heating elements?

"Tony" wrote in message
...
Aaron Fude wrote:
Roger Shoaf wrote:
"Aaron Fude" wrote in message
...
Hi,

How hard can it be to build something like this:

http://www.radiatorshowroom.co.uk/al...-radiator.html


So you are still planning on making a hot water version of an electric
radiator, or are you using electric heating elements?

What makes you think it is electric? Surely, not the fact that they give
watts as a means of expressing power. Check out International System of
Units.

Look at their other hydronic products
http://www.radiatorshowroom.co.uk/ne...-radiator.html

On Sep 23, 10:56*am, "Ed Pawlowski" wrote:
"Tony" wrote in message

...

Aaron Fude wrote:
Roger Shoaf wrote:
"Aaron Fude" wrote in message
....
Hi,

How hard can it be to build something like this:

http://www.radiatorshowroom.co.uk/al...-radiator.html

So you are still planning on making a hot water version of an electric
radiator, or are you using electric heating elements?

What makes you think it is electric? Surely, not the fact that they give
watts as a means of expressing power. Check out International System of
Units.

Look at their other hydronic productshttp://www.radiatorshowroom.co.uk/new-clasico-radiator.html

Something like this could work well with a solar collector.

Jimmie

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
"Tony" wrote in message
...
Aaron Fude wrote:
Roger Shoaf wrote:
"Aaron Fude" wrote in message
...
Hi,

How hard can it be to build something like this:

http://www.radiatorshowroom.co.uk/al...-radiator.html


So you are still planning on making a hot water version of an electric
radiator, or are you using electric heating elements?

What makes you think it is electric? Surely, not the fact that they give
watts as a means of expressing power. Check out International System of
Units.

Look at their other hydronic products
http://www.radiatorshowroom.co.uk/ne...-radiator.html

Well I'lllll be! Guess I'm still alive cause I'm still learning.

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
"Tony" wrote in message
...
Aaron Fude wrote:
Roger Shoaf wrote:
"Aaron Fude" wrote in message
...
Hi,

How hard can it be to build something like this:

http://www.radiatorshowroom.co.uk/al...-radiator.html


So you are still planning on making a hot water version of an electric
radiator, or are you using electric heating elements?

What makes you think it is electric? Surely, not the fact that they give
watts as a means of expressing power. Check out International System of
Units.

Look at their other hydronic products
http://www.radiatorshowroom.co.uk/ne...-radiator.html

Well I'lllll be! Guess I'm still alive cause I'm still learning.