I was watching a BBC show called "Light Fantastic" Part of the show
shows how Edison was trying to build a market for electricity. It
showed many appliances such as the vacuum cleaner, kitchen mixer and
the phonograph.

They then showed a logo sign that read.........Don't kill your wife
with work! Let electricity do it.

On Jun 20, 10:57�pm, Metspitzer wrote:
I was watching a BBC show called "Light Fantastic" �Part of the show
shows how Edison was trying to build a market for electricity. �It
showed many appliances such as the vacuum cleaner, kitchen mixer and
the phonograph.

They then showed a logo sign that read.........Don't kill your wife
with work! �Let electricity do it.

Edison believed DC was safer. Westinghouse was his BIG competitor.

When the country moved from hanging to electrocution for prisoners
sentenced to death........

Edison called it westinghousing them........

AC still won out as the power for the nation

"bob haller" wrote in message
...
On Jun 20, 10:57?pm, Metspitzer wrote:
I was watching a BBC show called "Light Fantastic" ?Part of the
show
shows how Edison was trying to build a market for electricity. ?It
showed many appliances such as the vacuum cleaner, kitchen mixer
and
the phonograph.

They then showed a logo sign that read.........Don't kill your
wife
with work! ?Let electricity do it.

Edison believed DC was safer. Westinghouse was his BIG competitor.

When the country moved from hanging to electrocution for prisoners
sentenced to death........

Edison called it westinghousing them........

AC still won out as the power for the nation

________________________________________
You are right that it was a Westinghouse / Edison battle, but in
reality, the man
behind pushing for AC (who was robbed by Westinghouse, in some
people's view)
was Tesla.

Bob-tx

bob haller wrote:

Edison believed DC was safer. Westinghouse was his BIG competitor.

When the country moved from hanging to electrocution for prisoners
sentenced to death........

Edison called it westinghousing them........

AC still won out as the power for the nation

Edison was a hack. Westinghouse had the induction and polyphase generation
patents from Nikola Tesla in his pocket, which established a superior system
of electrical power generation and distribution, which we are still using to
this day.

Jon

Jon Danniken wrote:
bob haller wrote:
Edison believed DC was safer. Westinghouse was his BIG competitor.

When the country moved from hanging to electrocution for prisoners
sentenced to death........

Edison called it westinghousing them........

AC still won out as the power for the nation

Edison was a hack. Westinghouse had the induction and polyphase generation
patents from Nikola Tesla in his pocket, which established a superior system
of electrical power generation and distribution, which we are still using to
this day.

Jon


Edison and Tesla were inventors. Westinghouse was a con artist marketer
who porked Tesla.

DC makes a lot more sense in some cases. They just didn't have the
technology back then. Ask yourself why so many new high power/high
voltage long distance lines are DC.

George wrote:
Edison and Tesla were inventors. Westinghouse was a con artist
marketer who porked Tesla.

Edison was a hack inventor who relied on his underlings for ideas and
products. Tesla came up with his inventions as the product of his own
intellectual ability.

DC makes a lot more sense in some cases.

In what cases?

They just didn't have the technology back then. Ask yourself why so many
new high power/high
voltage long distance lines are DC.

No, why don't you tell me, or at least provide an example of what exactly
you are talking about.

Jon

In article , "Jon Danniken" wrote:

Edison was a hack. Westinghouse had the induction and polyphase generation
patents from Nikola Tesla in his pocket, which established a superior system
of electrical power generation and distribution, which we are still using to
this day.

The superiority of AC over DC for power transmission is due solely to these
two facts:
a) the higher the voltage, the lower the losses in transmission.
b) AC can drive a transformer, but DC cannot.

Thus, it's possible to step AC voltage up arbitrarily high for transmission to
minimize losses, then step it back down for distribution. This can't be done
with DC.

Jon Danniken wrote:
George wrote:
Edison and Tesla were inventors. Westinghouse was a con artist
marketer who porked Tesla.

Edison was a hack inventor who relied on his underlings for ideas and
products. Tesla came up with his inventions as the product of his own
intellectual ability.

DC makes a lot more sense in some cases.

In what cases?

They just didn't have the technology back then. Ask yourself why so many
new high power/high
voltage long distance lines are DC.

No, why don't you tell me, or at least provide an example of what exactly
you are talking about.

Jon


http://lmgtfy.com/?q=high+voltage+dc+transmission+lines

George wrote:
Jon Danniken wrote:
bob haller wrote:
Edison believed DC was safer. Westinghouse was his BIG competitor.

When the country moved from hanging to electrocution for prisoners
sentenced to death........

Edison called it westinghousing them........

AC still won out as the power for the nation

Edison was a hack. Westinghouse had the induction and polyphase
generation patents from Nikola Tesla in his pocket, which established
a superior system of electrical power generation and distribution,
which we are still using to this day.

Jon

Edison and Tesla were inventors. Westinghouse was a con artist marketer
who porked Tesla.

DC makes a lot more sense in some cases. They just didn't have the
technology back then. Ask yourself why so many new high power/high
voltage long distance lines are DC.

My guess is by using DC you won't have inductive coupling
problems. The capacitive and inductive reactance would be
minimized and perhaps impedance wouldn't be a big problem.
You wouldn't have to worry about keeping the frequency of
the power supplied right on 50/60 hz. I'm no rocket surgeon
but there are things about AC power that can make it a pain
in the butt to deal with sometimes. I know that the magnetic
field of the Earth can induce current on long lines. Perhaps
a mad scientist or angry engineer could chime in and explain
it all.

TDD

Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "Jon Danniken" wrote:

Edison was a hack. Westinghouse had the induction and polyphase generation
patents from Nikola Tesla in his pocket, which established a superior system
of electrical power generation and distribution, which we are still using to
this day.

The superiority of AC over DC for power transmission is due solely to these
two facts:
a) the higher the voltage, the lower the losses in transmission.
b) AC can drive a transformer, but DC cannot.

Thus, it's possible to step AC voltage up arbitrarily high for transmission to
minimize losses, then step it back down for distribution. This can't be done
with DC.

W/ a passive transformer that's true but solid-state devices mean can
now effectively build DC voltage step-up/down devices that couldn't
(practically) before.

AFAIK there aren't yet any long-distance DC grid transmission lines in
the existing US grid but there are at least some on/in the planning (and
maybe construction by now, been nearly 10(!!??!!) years since retired
and had direct contact w/ the particular utilities involved) so not sure
exact status. There are plans for some new lines from various
large-scale wind farms and if they're ever built in all likelihood any
lines from offshore wind will be DC.

Back when still working, studies in EPRI indicated something otoo 100
miles was about the breakeven point between AC losses and the extra cost
of DC installations for general transmission. For dedicated facilities
it could be much shorter, say 10, maybe.

--

wrote:
On Sun, 21 Jun 2009 09:03:45 -0700, "Jon Danniken"
wrote:

DC makes a lot more sense in some cases.

In what cases?

Equipment that runs off of solar PV arrays. ?

That is one case, but we were talking about large scale power distribution
over non trivial distances.

Jon

Edison was a hack. Westinghouse had the induction and polyphase
generation patents from Nikola Tesla in his pocket, which established a
superior system of electrical power generation and distribution, which we
are still using to this day.

Jon

And true to corporate greed screwed Tesla, paying him very little, and
letting him die in obscurity and poverty.

Steve

SteveB wrote:
Edison was a hack. Westinghouse had the induction and polyphase
generation patents from Nikola Tesla in his pocket, which
established a superior system of electrical power generation and
distribution, which we are still using to this day.

Jon

And true to corporate greed screwed Tesla, paying him very little, and
letting him die in obscurity and poverty.

Well, George Westinghouse was a strict capitalist, and was the one who gave
him the job in the first place. While he did indeed profit immeasurably
from the work of Nikola Tesla, the relative levels of fame and wealth
possessed by Mr. Tesla at the time of his death were not the responsibility
of Mr. Westinghouse.

That doesn't mean I don't think Mr. Tesla deserved a better end to his life,
mind you, but sometimes it happens that great men die deaths unbefitting
their legacy.

Jon

On Sun, 21 Jun 2009 19:27:45 -0700, "Jon Danniken"
wrote:



Well, George Westinghouse was a strict capitalist, and was the one who gave
him the job in the first place. While he did indeed profit immeasurably
from the work of Nikola Tesla, the relative levels of fame and wealth
possessed by Mr. Tesla at the time of his death were not the responsibility
of Mr. Westinghouse.

If you don't count Tesla letting Westinghouse off the hook.

http://flyingmoose.org/truthfic/tesla.htm
The agreements between Westinghouse and Tesla called for the
businessman to pay the inventor a royalty of two dollars and fifty
cents - for every horsepower of AC equipment sold. Even a century ago,
the royalties would be enough to make Tesla one of the wealthiest men
in the world. (Were such royalties to be paid on equipment in use
today, the royalties on AC generators alone would be worth more than
seven and a half billion dollars.)
-----
Like many geniuses Tesla wasn't playing with a full deck. The guy
wanted to marry a pigeon.

Metspitzer wrote:
On Sun, 21 Jun 2009 19:27:45 -0700, "Jon Danniken"wrote:

Well, George Westinghouse was a strict capitalist, and was the one
who gave him the job in the first place. While he did indeed profit
immeasurably from the work of Nikola Tesla, the relative levels of
fame and wealth possessed by Mr. Tesla at the time of his death were
not the responsibility of Mr. Westinghouse.

If you don't count Tesla letting Westinghouse off the hook.

http://flyingmoose.org/truthfic/tesla.htm
The agreements between Westinghouse and Tesla called for the
businessman to pay the inventor a royalty of two dollars and fifty
cents - for every horsepower of AC equipment sold. Even a century ago,
the royalties would be enough to make Tesla one of the wealthiest men
in the world. (Were such royalties to be paid on equipment in use
today, the royalties on AC generators alone would be worth more than
seven and a half billion dollars.)
-----
Like many geniuses Tesla wasn't playing with a full deck. The guy
wanted to marry a pigeon.

And the complementary passage from your link above:

"Westinghouse came to Tesla and described the situation. Tesla replied with
these words:
"Mr. Westinghouse, you have been my friend, you believed in me when others
had no faith; you were brave enough to go ahead... when others lacked
courage; you supported me when even your own engineers lacked vision... you
have stood by me as a friend...

"Here is your contract, and here is my contract. I will tear both of them to
pieces, and you will no longer have any troubles from my royalties. Is that
sufficient?""

Possibly not the most practical decision, but you can't blame Westinghouse
for him doing it.

Jon