I received a form from my car insurance company asking for the odometer
readings of our 3 cars.

My concern is that this is not going to be representative of our future
driving distance. My wife's car has a lot of mileage because she was
finishing college two years ago, and she had to drive 35 miles each way. So
she has a lot of mileage on her relatively new car, but since she finished
school she doesn't drive much; her work is now within 10 miles of home.

If the insurance company takes the odometer reading and divides it by the
number of years since the car was purchased, then this will not accurately
predict how much she will drive this year.

If I don't return the odometer form, are they going to give us the
opportunity to provide maintenance records from the past year, or
documentation showing the distance of her current work location from home?

Because using the odometer reading doesn't make sense... that makes too
many assumptions and people don't always drive the same amount from
year-to-year. This is the very first time they would have our odometer
readings so I can only assume that they would average it over all the years
since the car was purchased.

------

California Considering New Mileage Verification Rules
May 31, 2006

Insurance brokers and agents could be required to verify odometer readings
for new and renewal automobile insurance policies under amendments the
California Department of Insurance (CDI) has proposed to its personal
automobile rating factor regulations.

CDI has proposed amending Section 2632.5, of the California Code of
Regulations, to specify how insurers may-and may not-verify estimated annual
mileage. Under Prop. 103, annual mileage is second in importance only to
driving safety record in the weight insurers may assign in establishing
personal auto insurance rates.

Under the CDI proposal, new applicants would be required to estimate their
annual mileage and provide insurers "reasonable information necessary to
support the estimate." "Reasonable information" would be defined to mean,
"the location of the applicant's workplace if the vehicle is used for
commute purposes, the number of days per week the vehicle is used for
commuting, an estimate of the number of miles driven for pleasure or other
purposes, the approximate total number of miles driven the previous year,
and the reason for any differences in the estimate for the upcoming year and
the miles driven the previous year."

Insurers would be permitted to require applicants to provide their current
odometer reading, or to obtain the last odometer reading from the California
Department of Motor Vehicles smog certification program.

The proposed regulation further states, however, that "If an insurer markets
using an independent or captive agency system, and an applicant meets with
an agent in connection with the insurance application, the insurer may
require the agent to verify the odometer reading of the vehicle to be
insured under the policy, and the applicant shall allow the agent to do so."

If an applicant fails to provide or permit an agent to verify the odometer
reading, if the insurer has no other means reasonably to estimate annual
mileage, and if the insurer has clearly indicated the consequences of not
providing that information, the insurer may issue the policy using a
"default annual mileage figure, which has been filed with and approved by
the Commissioner."

Insurers would be prohibited from changing the mileage estimate provided
without notifying the applicant of that change and providing at least 15
days from mailing that notice, to challenge the insurer's determination
under the proposed regulations. Insurers could request, but not require, an
applicant to provide prior documentation, such as prior vehicle maintenance
records or prior smog certificates. Insurers could not require an applicant
to provide information from a prior insurer to confirm mileage estimated or
driven.

A conference call workshop was held May 25, in which insurers argued for
greater flexibility in deciding whether and how frequently to request
documentation for mileage estimates. IBA West will be providing testimony on
the proposal at a public hearing, June 13, at CDI offices in San Francisco
at 45 Fremont Street.

A copy of the proposed regulations appears below:

STATE OF CALIFORNIA
DEPARTMENT OF INSURANCE
45 Fremont Street, 21st Floor
San Francisco, CA 94105
RH06091489 April 14, 2006
PROPOSED REGULATION TEXT1
Mileage Verification
Section 2632.5 Rating Factors.

(c) An insurer's class plan, and all rates and premiums determined in
accordance therewith, shall utilize the following rating factors (the
"Mandatory Factors") for bodily injury liability, property damage liability,
medical payments, uninsured motorist, collision, and comprehensive
coverages:

(1) ....
(2) "Second Mandatory Factor" as used in Subchapter 4.7, is the number of
miles he or she drives annually, per California Insurance Code Section
1861.02(a)(2). This factor means the estimated annual mileage for the
insured vehicle during the 12 month period following the inception of the
policy. Insurers may not retroactively adjust premiums based on actual miles
driven unless notice is provided to the policy holder prior to the effective
date of the policy. Estimated annual mileage shall be determined only as
follows:
(A) For new business:
(i) At the inception of a policy, an insurer shall require an applicant to
provide the miles he or she expects to drive the insured vehicle during the
12 month period following policy inception, and reasonable information
necessary to support the estimate. "Reasonable information" consists of the
location of the applicant's workplace if the vehicle is used for commute
purposes, the number of days per week the vehicle is used for commuting, an
estimate of the number of miles driven for pleasure or other purposes, the
approximate total number of miles driven the previous year, and the reason
for any differences in the estimate for the upcoming year and the miles
driven the previous year. Except as otherwise set forth in this section, an
insurer shall use the applicant's estimated annual mileage;
(ii) To substantiate the estimated annual mileage, an insurer may require
all applicants to provide, at policy inception, the current odometer reading
of the vehicle to be insured or the insurer may obtain the odometer reading
from the California Department of Motor Vehicles smog certification program;
(iii) If an insurer markets using an independent or captive agency system,
and an applicant meets with an agent in connection with the insurance
application, the insurer may require the agent to verify the odometer
reading of the vehicle to be insured under the policy, and the applicant
shall allow the agent to do so;
(iv) If an applicant does not provide the information set forth in (i) and
(ii) above, and the insurer has no other means reasonably to estimate the
miles to be driven during the 12 month period following inception of the
policy, and the insurer has clearly indicated the consequences of not
providing that information, the insurer may issue the policy using a default
annual mileage figure, which has been filed with and approved by the
Commissioner. Upon receipt of the information set forth in (i) and (ii)
above, the policy shall be rated using that information. The insurer may
choose to re-rate all policies as of the date it receives the information,
or as of policy inception. However, an insurer shall apply the same method
for every policy.
(v) All mileage rating rules that direct the selection of a mileage rating
relativity shall be filed with and approved by the Commissioner. This
includes use of multiple mileage rating bands and use of default and/or
average mileage rating relativities.
(vi) In no event shall an insurer rate a policy unilaterally changing the
mileage estimate provided without notifying the applicant of that change and
providing the applicant a reasonable opportunity, no less than fifteen days
from the date of mailing of that notice, to challenge the insurer's
determination.
(vii) An insurer may request but shall not require an applicant to provide
prior documentation, such as prior vehicle maintenance records or prior smog
certificates, in order to confirm mileage driven because, for a variety of
reasons, applicants may not have access to this documentation.
(viii) In no event shall an insurer require an applicant to provide
information from a prior insurer to confirm mileage estimated or driven.
(B) For renewal business:
(i) Prior to policy renewal, an insurer shall require a policyholder to
provide the miles he or she expects to drive the insured vehicle during the
12 month period following policy inception, and reasonable information
necessary to support the estimate. "Reasonable information" consists of the
location of the applicant's workplace if the vehicle is used for commute
purposes, the number of days per week the vehicle is used for commuting, an
estimate of the number of miles driven for pleasure or other purposes, the
approximate total number of miles driven the previous year, and the reason
for any differences in the estimate for the upcoming year and the miles
driven the previous year. Except as otherwise set forth in this section, an
insurer shall use the policyholder's estimated annual mileage;
(ii) To substantiate the estimated annual mileage, an insurer may require
all policyholders to provide, at policy renewal, the current odometer
reading of the vehicle to be insured or the insurer may obtain the odometer
reading from the California Department of Motor Vehicles smog certification
program;
(iii) If an insurer markets using an independent or captive agency system,
and a policyholder meets with an agent in connection with policy renewal,
the insurer may require the agent to verify the odometer reading of the
vehicle insured under the policy, and the policyholder shall allow the agent
to do so;
(iv) If a policyholder does not provide the information set forth in (i) and
(ii) above and the insurer has no other means reasonably to estimate the
miles to be driven during the 12 month period following renewal of the
policy, and the insurer has clearly indicated the consequences of not
providing that information, the insurer may renew the policy using a default
annual mileage figure, which has been filed with and approved by the
Commissioner. Upon receipt of the information set forth in (i) and (ii)
above, the policy shall be rated using that information. The insurer may
choose to re-rate all policies as of the date it receives the information,
or as of policy inception. However, an insurer shall apply the same method
for every policy.
(v) All mileage rating rules that direct the selection of a mileage rating
relativity shall be filed with and approved by the Commissioner. This
includes use of multiple mileage rating bands and use of default and/or
average mileage rating relativities.
(vi) In no event shall an insurer rate a policy unilaterally changing the
mileage estimate provided without notifying the policyholder of that change
and providing the policyholder a reasonable opportunity, no less than
fifteen days from the date of mailing of that notice, to challenge the
insurer's determination.
(vii) An insurer may request but shall not require a policyholder to provide
prior documentation, such as prior vehicle maintenance records or prior smog
certificates, in order to confirm mileage driven because, for a variety of
reasons, policyholders may not have access to this documentation.
(viii) In no event shall an insurer require a policyholder to provide
information from a prior insurer to confirm mileage estimated or driven.

Authority cited: Section 1861.02, Insurance Code; and CalFarm Insurance
Company v. Deukmejian (1989) 48 Cal.3d 805. Reference: Sections 1861.02,
1861.05, 11628 and 11628.3, Insurance Code.

Find this article at:
http://www.insurancejournal.com/news...5/31/68968.htm

"ddbean" wrote in message


Because using the odometer reading doesn't make sense... that makes too
many assumptions and people don't always drive the same amount from
year-to-year. This is the very first time they would have our odometer
readings so I can only assume that they would average it over all the
years since the car was purchased.

You are making too many assumptions. Why not get facts? Call the insurance
company. One reading tells you nothing, only the second reading since you
owned the car so they may just record the number this time around. It may
have been purchased used with very high or very low miles.

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

"ddbean" wrote in message


Because using the odometer reading doesn't make sense... that makes too
many assumptions and people don't always drive the same amount from
year-to-year. This is the very first time they would have our odometer
readings so I can only assume that they would average it over all the
years since the car was purchased.

You are making too many assumptions. Why not get facts? Call the
insurance company. One reading tells you nothing, only the second reading
since you owned the car so they may just record the number this time
around. It may have been purchased used with very high or very low miles.


They have been doing this in NY for many years. The insurance company wants
to know how many miles a year you drive. The more miles you drive the more
the risk of accident. They also want the mileage in the event your car is
stolen or totalled so that they can determine the value of the car.

On May 19, 6:38*am, "Sanity" wrote:
"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message

...



"ddbean" wrote in message

Because using the odometer reading doesn't make sense... *that makes too
many assumptions and people don't always drive the same amount from
year-to-year. *This is the very first time they would have our odometer
readings so I can only assume that they would average it over all the
years since the car was purchased.

You are making too many assumptions. *Why not get facts? *Call the
insurance company. *One reading tells you nothing, only the second reading
since you owned the car so they may just record the number this time
around. *It may have been purchased used with very high or very low miles.

They have been doing this in NY for many years. *The insurance company wants
to know how many miles a year you drive. The more miles you drive the more
the risk of accident. They also want the mileage in the event your car is
stolen or totalled so that they can determine the value of the car.

Yes, I wouldn't get all worked up over it either. The insurance
company, like everyone else, knows you can't base how many miles
someone drives by simply taking one mileage reading and dividing it by
how old the car is. Lots of people buy a car with 100K miles on it
that they had no part in driving.

However, if you tell them this year it has 100K on it and next year
that it has 110K on it, then they have something they could check to
verify if you're fibbing. Sounds like a good idea to me. Part of
the risk profile is how many miles a year you drive and I'm sure
plenty of people lie about that to try to get lower rates.

On May 19, 1:28*am, "ddbean" wrote:
I received a form from my car insurance company asking for the odometer
readings of our 3 cars.

My concern is that this is not going to be representative of our future
driving distance. *My wife's car has a lot of mileage because she was
finishing college two years ago, and she had to drive 35 miles each way. *So
she has a lot of mileage on her relatively new car, but since she finished
school she doesn't drive much; her work is now within 10 miles of home.

If the insurance company takes the odometer reading and divides it by the
number of years since the car was purchased, then this will not accurately
predict how much she will drive this year.

If I don't return the odometer form, are they going to give us the
opportunity to provide maintenance records from the past year, or
documentation showing the distance of her current work location from home?

Because using the odometer reading doesn't make sense... *that makes too
many assumptions and people don't always drive the same amount from
year-to-year. *This is the very first time they would have our odometer
readings so I can only assume that they would average it over all the years
since the car was purchased.

------

California Considering New Mileage Verification Rules
May 31, 2006

Insurance brokers and agents could be required to verify odometer readings
for new and renewal automobile insurance policies under amendments the
California Department of Insurance (CDI) has proposed to its personal
automobile rating factor regulations.

CDI has proposed amending Section 2632.5, of the California Code of
Regulations, to specify how insurers may-and may not-verify estimated annual
mileage. Under Prop. 103, annual mileage is second in importance only to
driving safety record in the weight insurers may assign in establishing
personal auto insurance rates.

Under the CDI proposal, new applicants would be required to estimate their
annual mileage and provide insurers "reasonable information necessary to
support the estimate." "Reasonable information" would be defined to mean,
"the location of the applicant's workplace if the vehicle is used for
commute purposes, the number of days per week the vehicle is used for
commuting, an estimate of the number of miles driven for pleasure or other
purposes, the approximate total number of miles driven the previous year,
and the reason for any differences in the estimate for the upcoming year and
the miles driven the previous year."

Insurers would be permitted to require applicants to provide their current
odometer reading, or to obtain the last odometer reading from the California
Department of Motor Vehicles smog certification program.

The proposed regulation further states, however, that "If an insurer markets
using an independent or captive agency system, and an applicant meets with
an agent in connection with the insurance application, the insurer may
require the agent to verify the odometer reading of the vehicle to be
insured under the policy, and the applicant shall allow the agent to do so."

If an applicant fails to provide or permit an agent to verify the odometer
reading, if the insurer has no other means reasonably to estimate annual
mileage, and if the insurer has clearly indicated the consequences of not
providing that information, the insurer may issue the policy using a
"default annual mileage figure, which has been filed with and approved by
the Commissioner."

Insurers would be prohibited from changing the mileage estimate provided
without notifying the applicant of that change and providing at least 15
days from mailing that notice, to challenge the insurer's determination
under the proposed regulations. Insurers could request, but not require, an
applicant to provide prior documentation, such as prior vehicle maintenance
records or prior smog certificates. Insurers could not require an applicant
to provide information from a prior insurer to confirm mileage estimated or
driven.

A conference call workshop was held May 25, in which insurers argued for
greater flexibility in deciding whether and how frequently to request
documentation for mileage estimates. IBA West will be providing testimony on
the proposal at a public hearing, June 13, at CDI offices in San Francisco
at 45 Fremont Street.

A copy of the proposed regulations appears below:

STATE OF CALIFORNIA
DEPARTMENT OF INSURANCE
45 Fremont Street, 21st Floor
San Francisco, CA 94105
RH06091489 April 14, 2006
PROPOSED REGULATION TEXT1
Mileage Verification
Section 2632.5 Rating Factors.

(c) An insurer's class plan, and all rates and premiums determined in
accordance therewith, shall utilize the following rating factors (the
"Mandatory Factors") for bodily injury liability, property damage liability,
medical payments, uninsured motorist, collision, and comprehensive
coverages:

(1) ....
(2) "Second Mandatory Factor" as used in Subchapter 4.7, is the number of
miles he or she drives annually, per California Insurance Code Section
1861.02(a)(2). This factor means the estimated annual mileage for the
insured vehicle during the 12 month period following the inception of the
policy. Insurers may not retroactively adjust premiums based on actual miles
driven unless notice is provided to the policy holder prior to the effective
date of the policy. Estimated annual mileage shall be determined only as
follows:
(A) For new business:
(i) At the inception of a policy, an insurer shall require an applicant to
provide the miles he or she expects to drive the insured vehicle during the
12 month period following policy inception, and reasonable information
necessary to support the estimate. "Reasonable information" consists of the
location of the applicant's workplace if the vehicle is used for commute
purposes, the number of days per week the vehicle is used for commuting, an
estimate of the number of miles driven for pleasure or other purposes, the
approximate total number of miles driven the previous year, and the reason
for any differences in the estimate for the upcoming year and the miles
driven the previous year. Except as otherwise set forth in this section, an
insurer shall use the applicant's estimated annual mileage;
(ii) To substantiate the estimated annual mileage, an insurer may require
all applicants to provide, at policy inception, the current odometer reading
of the vehicle to be insured or the insurer may obtain the odometer reading
from the California Department of Motor Vehicles smog certification program;
(iii) If an insurer markets using an independent or captive agency system,
and an applicant meets with an agent in connection with the insurance
application, the insurer may require the agent to verify the odometer
reading of the vehicle to be insured under the policy, and the applicant
shall allow the agent to do so;
(iv) If an applicant does not provide the information set forth in (i) and
(ii) above, and the insurer has no other means reasonably to estimate the
miles to be driven during the 12 month period following inception of the
policy, and the insurer has clearly indicated the consequences of not
providing that information, the insurer may issue the policy using a default
annual mileage figure, which has been filed with and approved by the
Commissioner. Upon receipt of the information set forth in (i) and (ii)
above, the policy shall be rated using that information. The insurer may
choose to re-rate all policies as of the date it receives the information,
or as of policy inception. However, an insurer shall apply the same method
for every policy.
(v) All mileage rating rules that direct the selection of a mileage rating
relativity shall be filed with and approved by the Commissioner. This
includes use of multiple mileage rating bands and use of default and/or
average mileage rating relativities.
(vi) In no event shall an insurer rate a policy unilaterally changing the
mileage estimate provided without notifying the applicant of that change and
providing the applicant a reasonable opportunity, no less than fifteen days
from the date of mailing of that notice, to challenge the insurer's
determination.
(vii) An insurer may request but shall not require an applicant to provide
prior documentation, such as prior vehicle maintenance records or prior smog
certificates, in order to confirm mileage driven because, for a variety of
reasons, applicants may not have access to this documentation.
(viii) In no event shall an insurer require an applicant to provide
information from a prior insurer to confirm mileage estimated or driven.
(B) For renewal business:
(i) Prior to policy renewal, an insurer shall require a policyholder to
provide the miles he or she expects to drive the insured vehicle during the
12 month period following policy inception, and reasonable information
necessary to support the estimate. "Reasonable information" consists of the
location of the applicant's workplace if the vehicle is used for commute
purposes, the number of days per week the vehicle is used for commuting, an
estimate of the number of miles driven for pleasure or other purposes, the
approximate total number of miles driven the previous year, and the reason
for any differences in the estimate for the upcoming year and the miles
driven the previous year. Except as otherwise set forth in this section, an
insurer shall use the policyholder's estimated annual mileage;
(ii) To substantiate the estimated annual mileage, an insurer may require
all policyholders to provide, at policy renewal, the current odometer
reading of the vehicle to be insured or the insurer may obtain the odometer
reading from the California Department of Motor Vehicles smog certification
program;
(iii) If an insurer markets using an independent or captive agency system,
and a policyholder meets with an agent in connection with policy renewal,
the insurer may require the agent to ...

read more »

You worry to much about nothing, and I didnt even read 95% of your to
long posting.

Soon every vehicle will have a on line GPS tracking recording device
where and when you go, automatically sending tickets for seeding etc.
attempting to disable the device will put the vehicle out of
operation.

the device will report in as you drive by local data collection
points, so many there will be no avoiding them.

ahh bob spends time in crime areas, car insurance rate up, he tends to
speed just thats another increase........

isnt technology wonderful?

ddbean wrote:
I received a form from my car insurance company asking for the
odometer readings of our 3 cars.

My concern is that this is not going to be representative of our
future driving distance. My wife's car has a lot of mileage because
she was finishing college two years ago, and she had to drive 35
miles each way. So she has a lot of mileage on her relatively new
car, but since she finished school she doesn't drive much; her work
is now within 10 miles of home.
If the insurance company takes the odometer reading and divides it by
the number of years since the car was purchased, then this will not
accurately predict how much she will drive this year.

If I don't return the odometer form, are they going to give us the
opportunity to provide maintenance records from the past year, or
documentation showing the distance of her current work location from
home?
Because using the odometer reading doesn't make sense... that makes
too many assumptions and people don't always drive the same amount
from year-to-year. This is the very first time they would have our
odometer readings so I can only assume that they would average it
over all the years since the car was purchased.

------

You might be getting screwed, but someone else will be getting a bargain.

It averages out.

bob haller wrote:

Soon every vehicle will have a on line GPS tracking recording device
where and when you go, automatically sending tickets for seeding etc.
attempting to disable the device will put the vehicle out of
operation.

the device will report in as you drive by local data collection
points, so many there will be no avoiding them.

ahh bob spends time in crime areas, car insurance rate up, he tends to
speed just thats another increase........

isnt technology wonderful?

Most large truck already have them but govmint is not going after them.
Morons that steal these trucks are easy to catch.
I understand in Europe trucks are required to keep a recorder chart log
that recalls time on road and speed. A cop can check it and issue a
speeding ticket for exceeding the speed limit at any time on chart.
This was 20 years ago and I assume they have modernized practice.

For OP, DE gives discounts for low mileage although the sob's are
increasing rates for those over 70 years old. Us old people drive less
but pay more. Bottom line - insurance company is going to screw you.

On Tue, 19 May 2009 08:59:26 -0400, Frank wrote:
For OP, DE gives discounts for low mileage although the sob's are
increasing rates for those over 70 years old. Us old people drive less
but pay more. Bottom line - insurance company is going to screw you.

old people cause more accidents hence the higher rates. There's a
point when a person is no longer safe to drive at all but too many
people in such a state continue to drive anyway.

Frank wrote:
bob haller wrote:

Soon every vehicle will have a on line GPS tracking recording device
where and when you go, automatically sending tickets for seeding etc.
attempting to disable the device will put the vehicle out of
operation.

the device will report in as you drive by local data collection
points, so many there will be no avoiding them.

ahh bob spends time in crime areas, car insurance rate up, he tends to
speed just thats another increase........

isnt technology wonderful?

Most large truck already have them but govmint is not going after them.
Morons that steal these trucks are easy to catch.
I understand in Europe trucks are required to keep a recorder chart log
that recalls time on road and speed. A cop can check it and issue a
speeding ticket for exceeding the speed limit at any time on chart.
This was 20 years ago and I assume they have modernized practice.

For OP, DE gives discounts for low mileage although the sob's are
increasing rates for those over 70 years old. Us old people drive less
but pay more. Bottom line - insurance company is going to screw you.

Its based on statistical risk. Stats say young and old are more likely
to cause accidents.

And this relates to home repair, how?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"ddbean" wrote in message
...
I received a form from my car insurance company asking for
the odometer
readings of our 3 cars.

In article ,
"Stormin Mormon" wrote:

And this relates to home repair, how?

He uses the car to go Home Depot?

--
"Distracting a politician from governing
is like distracting a bear from eating your baby."

--PJ O'Rourke

ddbean wrote:
I received a form from my car insurance company asking for the odometer
readings of our 3 cars.

My concern is that this is not going to be representative of our future
driving distance. My wife's car has a lot of mileage because she was
finishing college two years ago, and she had to drive 35 miles each
way. So she has a lot of mileage on her relatively new car, but since
she finished school she doesn't drive much; her work is now within 10
miles of home.

If the insurance company takes the odometer reading and divides it by
the number of years since the car was purchased, then this will not
accurately predict how much she will drive this year.

If I don't return the odometer form, are they going to give us the
opportunity to provide maintenance records from the past year, or
documentation showing the distance of her current work location from home?

Because using the odometer reading doesn't make sense... that makes too
many assumptions and people don't always drive the same amount from
year-to-year. This is the very first time they would have our odometer
readings so I can only assume that they would average it over all the
years since the car was purchased.

------

California Considering New Mileage Verification Rules
May 31, 2006

Insurance brokers and agents could be required to verify odometer
readings for new and renewal automobile insurance policies under
amendments the California Department of Insurance (CDI) has proposed to
its personal automobile rating factor regulations.

CDI has proposed amending Section 2632.5, of the California Code of
Regulations, to specify how insurers may-and may not-verify estimated
annual mileage. Under Prop. 103, annual mileage is second in importance
only to driving safety record in the weight insurers may assign in
establishing personal auto insurance rates.

Under the CDI proposal, new applicants would be required to estimate
their annual mileage and provide insurers "reasonable information
necessary to support the estimate." "Reasonable information" would be
defined to mean, "the location of the applicant's workplace if the
vehicle is used for commute purposes, the number of days per week the
vehicle is used for commuting, an estimate of the number of miles driven
for pleasure or other purposes, the approximate total number of miles
driven the previous year, and the reason for any differences in the
estimate for the upcoming year and the miles driven the previous year."

Insurers would be permitted to require applicants to provide their
current odometer reading, or to obtain the last odometer reading from
the California Department of Motor Vehicles smog certification program.

The proposed regulation further states, however, that "If an insurer
markets using an independent or captive agency system, and an applicant
meets with an agent in connection with the insurance application, the
insurer may require the agent to verify the odometer reading of the
vehicle to be insured under the policy, and the applicant shall allow
the agent to do so."

If an applicant fails to provide or permit an agent to verify the
odometer reading, if the insurer has no other means reasonably to
estimate annual mileage, and if the insurer has clearly indicated the
consequences of not providing that information, the insurer may issue
the policy using a "default annual mileage figure, which has been filed
with and approved by the Commissioner."

Insurers would be prohibited from changing the mileage estimate provided
without notifying the applicant of that change and providing at least 15
days from mailing that notice, to challenge the insurer's determination
under the proposed regulations. Insurers could request, but not require,
an applicant to provide prior documentation, such as prior vehicle
maintenance records or prior smog certificates. Insurers could not
require an applicant to provide information from a prior insurer to
confirm mileage estimated or driven.

A conference call workshop was held May 25, in which insurers argued for
greater flexibility in deciding whether and how frequently to request
documentation for mileage estimates. IBA West will be providing
testimony on the proposal at a public hearing, June 13, at CDI offices
in San Francisco at 45 Fremont Street.

A copy of the proposed regulations appears below:

STATE OF CALIFORNIA
DEPARTMENT OF INSURANCE
45 Fremont Street, 21st Floor
San Francisco, CA 94105
RH06091489 April 14, 2006
PROPOSED REGULATION TEXT1
Mileage Verification
Section 2632.5 Rating Factors.

(c) An insurer's class plan, and all rates and premiums determined in
accordance therewith, shall utilize the following rating factors (the
"Mandatory Factors") for bodily injury liability, property damage
liability, medical payments, uninsured motorist, collision, and
comprehensive coverages:

(1) ....
(2) "Second Mandatory Factor" as used in Subchapter 4.7, is the number
of miles he or she drives annually, per California Insurance Code
Section 1861.02(a)(2). This factor means the estimated annual mileage
for the insured vehicle during the 12 month period following the
inception of the policy. Insurers may not retroactively adjust premiums
based on actual miles driven unless notice is provided to the policy
holder prior to the effective date of the policy. Estimated annual
mileage shall be determined only as follows:
(A) For new business:
(i) At the inception of a policy, an insurer shall require an applicant
to provide the miles he or she expects to drive the insured vehicle
during the 12 month period following policy inception, and reasonable
information necessary to support the estimate. "Reasonable information"
consists of the location of the applicant's workplace if the vehicle is
used for commute purposes, the number of days per week the vehicle is
used for commuting, an estimate of the number of miles driven for
pleasure or other purposes, the approximate total number of miles driven
the previous year, and the reason for any differences in the estimate
for the upcoming year and the miles driven the previous year. Except as
otherwise set forth in this section, an insurer shall use the
applicant's estimated annual mileage;
(ii) To substantiate the estimated annual mileage, an insurer may
require all applicants to provide, at policy inception, the current
odometer reading of the vehicle to be insured or the insurer may obtain
the odometer reading from the California Department of Motor Vehicles
smog certification program;
(iii) If an insurer markets using an independent or captive agency
system, and an applicant meets with an agent in connection with the
insurance application, the insurer may require the agent to verify the
odometer reading of the vehicle to be insured under the policy, and the
applicant shall allow the agent to do so;
(iv) If an applicant does not provide the information set forth in (i)
and (ii) above, and the insurer has no other means reasonably to
estimate the miles to be driven during the 12 month period following
inception of the policy, and the insurer has clearly indicated the
consequences of not providing that information, the insurer may issue
the policy using a default annual mileage figure, which has been filed
with and approved by the Commissioner. Upon receipt of the information
set forth in (i) and (ii) above, the policy shall be rated using that
information. The insurer may choose to re-rate all policies as of the
date it receives the information, or as of policy inception. However, an
insurer shall apply the same method for every policy.
(v) All mileage rating rules that direct the selection of a mileage
rating relativity shall be filed with and approved by the Commissioner.
This includes use of multiple mileage rating bands and use of default
and/or average mileage rating relativities.
(vi) In no event shall an insurer rate a policy unilaterally changing
the mileage estimate provided without notifying the applicant of that
change and providing the applicant a reasonable opportunity, no less
than fifteen days from the date of mailing of that notice, to challenge
the insurer's determination.
(vii) An insurer may request but shall not require an applicant to
provide prior documentation, such as prior vehicle maintenance records
or prior smog certificates, in order to confirm mileage driven because,
for a variety of reasons, applicants may not have access to this
documentation.
(viii) In no event shall an insurer require an applicant to provide
information from a prior insurer to confirm mileage estimated or driven.
(B) For renewal business:
(i) Prior to policy renewal, an insurer shall require a policyholder to
provide the miles he or she expects to drive the insured vehicle during
the 12 month period following policy inception, and reasonable
information necessary to support the estimate. "Reasonable information"
consists of the location of the applicant's workplace if the vehicle is
used for commute purposes, the number of days per week the vehicle is
used for commuting, an estimate of the number of miles driven for
pleasure or other purposes, the approximate total number of miles driven
the previous year, and the reason for any differences in the estimate
for the upcoming year and the miles driven the previous year. Except as
otherwise set forth in this section, an insurer shall use the
policyholder's estimated annual mileage;
(ii) To substantiate the estimated annual mileage, an insurer may
require all policyholders to provide, at policy renewal, the current
odometer reading of the vehicle to be insured or the insurer may obtain
the odometer reading from the California Department of Motor Vehicles
smog certification program;
(iii) If an insurer markets using an independent or captive agency
system, and a policyholder meets with an agent in connection with policy
renewal, the insurer may require the agent to verify the odometer
reading of the vehicle insured under the policy, and the policyholder
shall allow the agent to do so;
(iv) If a policyholder does not provide the information set forth in (i)
and (ii) above and the insurer has no other means reasonably to estimate
the miles to be driven during the 12 month period following renewal of
the policy, and the insurer has clearly indicated the consequences of
not providing that information, the insurer may renew the policy using a
default annual mileage figure, which has been filed with and approved by
the Commissioner. Upon receipt of the information set forth in (i) and
(ii) above, the policy shall be rated using that information. The
insurer may choose to re-rate all policies as of the date it receives
the information, or as of policy inception. However, an insurer shall
apply the same method for every policy.
(v) All mileage rating rules that direct the selection of a mileage
rating relativity shall be filed with and approved by the Commissioner.
This includes use of multiple mileage rating bands and use of default
and/or average mileage rating relativities.
(vi) In no event shall an insurer rate a policy unilaterally changing
the mileage estimate provided without notifying the policyholder of that
change and providing the policyholder a reasonable opportunity, no less
than fifteen days from the date of mailing of that notice, to challenge
the insurer's determination.
(vii) An insurer may request but shall not require a policyholder to
provide prior documentation, such as prior vehicle maintenance records
or prior smog certificates, in order to confirm mileage driven because,
for a variety of reasons, policyholders may not have access to this
documentation.
(viii) In no event shall an insurer require a policyholder to provide
information from a prior insurer to confirm mileage estimated or driven.

Authority cited: Section 1861.02, Insurance Code; and CalFarm Insurance
Company v. Deukmejian (1989) 48 Cal.3d 805. Reference: Sections 1861.02,
1861.05, 11628 and 11628.3, Insurance Code.

Find this article at:
http://www.insurancejournal.com/news...5/31/68968.htm

Hi,
Where I live reporting about mileage is not mandatory. I think you worry
TOO much. Anything else you worry like this? As long as you keep good
driving record, what matters?

On May 19, 6:53*am, wrote:
Yes, I wouldn't get all worked up over it either. * The insurance
company, like everyone else, knows you can't base how many miles
someone drives by simply taking one mileage reading and dividing it by
how old the car is. * Lots of people buy a car with 100K miles on it
that they had no part in driving.

The replacement value of a car is also partially determined by how
many miles are on it.

On Tue, 19 May 2009 08:47:14 -0600, Tony Hwang wrote:
ddbean wrote:
I received a form from my car insurance company asking for the odometer
readings of our 3 cars.
snip
Find this article at:
http://www.insurancejournal.com/news...5/31/68968.htm

Hi,
Where I live reporting about mileage is not mandatory. I think you worry
TOO much. Anything else you worry like this? As long as you keep good
driving record, what matters?

you needed to quote 225 lines just to provide context for your comment?
sheesh, learn how to trim!

On Mon, 18 May 2009 23:28:32 -0700, against all advice, something
compelled "ddbean" , to say:

Because using the odometer reading doesn't make sense... that makes too
many assumptions and people don't always drive the same amount from
year-to-year. This is the very first time they would have our odometer
readings so I can only assume that they would average it over all the years
since the car was purchased.



Won't your agent answer this question?




--

Real men don't text.

On May 19, 6:38*am, "Sanity" wrote:
"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message

...



"ddbean" wrote in message

Because using the odometer reading doesn't make sense... *that makes too
many assumptions and people don't always drive the same amount from
year-to-year. *This is the very first time they would have our odometer
readings so I can only assume that they would average it over all the
years since the car was purchased.

You are making too many assumptions. *Why not get facts? *Call the
insurance company. *One reading tells you nothing, only the second reading
since you owned the car so they may just record the number this time
around. *It may have been purchased used with very high or very low miles.

They have been doing this in NY for many years. *The insurance company wants
to know how many miles a year you drive. The more miles you drive the more
the risk of accident. They also want the mileage in the event your car is
stolen or totalled so that they can determine the value of the car.

Sanity is right. In NYS the state collects that info every year as
part of an inspection. According to the blub you provided, it appears
that CA does the same as part of the smog inspection -- and it says
the insurance company can use it if they want.

Think of it this way, you are scared because your wife drove a lot in
the past and little now, so your rates will increase. That's just
fair turn-around for when she drove a lot and had artificially low
rates because you didn't report it.

Besides, 35 miles a day (or even one way) really isn't much. Around
here, the average commute is over 20 miles.

Stormin Mormon wrote:
And this relates to home repair, how?

Bashing California, cats, and HOAs are usually appropriate side-topics.

With the new laws, mileage will have a much greater impact on the price of
the policy.

By law, the mileage now becomes a higher priority mandatory factor.

I'm just trying to figure out how the insurance co. will compute this based
on the odometer reading. Are they going to take the current reading I give
them and average it over all the years since the car was purchased (bad way
of doing it), or are they going to wait until next year when I fill out a
second form so they can see the actual difference (makes more sense, but
then the insurance co. must wait another year). So far no one has been able
to confirm which of these two techniques are used... and this is going to
adjust everyone's rates in California real soon.

On May 19, 2:40*pm, "ddbean" wrote:
With the new laws, mileage will have a much greater impact on the price of
the policy.

By law, the mileage now becomes a higher priority mandatory factor.

I'm just trying to figure out how the insurance co. will compute this based
on the odometer reading. *Are they going to take the current reading I give
them and average it over all the years since the car was purchased (bad way
of doing it), or are they going to wait until next year when I fill out a
second form so they can see the actual difference (makes more sense, but
then the insurance co. must wait another year). *So far no one has been able
to confirm which of these two techniques are used... * and this is going to
adjust everyone's rates in California real soon.



Quit stressing about this and just pick up the phone and call your
insurance agent/insurance company.

In article ,
"ddbean" wrote:

"Bob M." wrote in message
. ..
This is a -proposal- and worse yet, it's a proposal that's 3 years old,
and you're getting all worked up over something that may not have gone
anywhere?

Maybe that's why the insurance co. mailed me (and everyone else) the
odometer form to fill out, sign, and return.

Just throw it away, with your jury duty notice. They don't have the
manpower to go around looking for scofflaws who ignore forms.

On May 19, 12:28*am, "ddbean" wrote:
I received a form from my car insurance company asking for the odometer
readings of our 3 cars.

My concern is that this is not going to be representative of our future
driving distance.

Don't worry, they will ask you again next year. I get a huge discount
on insurance for one vehicle because it is driven less than 7000 miles
per year. I have enjoyed the discount for about 15 years now, but
starting about 3 years ago the insurance company wants an odometer
reading each year.

If you expect your wife to drive her car very little this year, you
can ask the insurance company right now to lower the rate on her car.

Pologirl

Finally, a useful answer, thanks Pologirl.

I post here so that everyone can benefit from the responses. If I just go
straight to my insurance company with the question then it won't benefit
anyone else. By posting here, we share the knowledge.

"Smitty Two" wrote in message
news
Just throw it away, with your jury duty notice. They don't have the
manpower to go around looking for scofflaws who ignore forms.

What are you talking about. I'm asking about how the insurance company
forecasts the annual mileage based on the odometer reading. Reading your
sarcasm wasted 2 minutes of my life.

In article ,
"ddbean" wrote:

"Smitty Two" wrote in message
news
Just throw it away, with your jury duty notice. They don't have the
manpower to go around looking for scofflaws who ignore forms.

What are you talking about. I'm asking about how the insurance company
forecasts the annual mileage based on the odometer reading. Reading your
sarcasm wasted 2 minutes of my life.

It took you two minutes to read two sentences? Man, you need some
remedial reading classes for starters. And then some logic skills, too.

ddbean wrote:
I received a form from my car insurance company asking for the odometer
readings of our 3 cars.

My concern is that this is not going to be representative of our future
driving distance. My wife's car has a lot of mileage because she was
finishing college two years ago, and she had to drive 35 miles each
way. So she has a lot of mileage on her relatively new car, but since
she finished school she doesn't drive much; her work is now within 10
miles of home.

If the insurance company takes the odometer reading and divides it by
the number of years since the car was purchased, then this will not
accurately predict how much she will drive this year.

If I don't return the odometer form, are they going to give us the
opportunity to provide maintenance records from the past year, or
documentation showing the distance of her current work location from home?

Because using the odometer reading doesn't make sense... that makes too
many assumptions and people don't always drive the same amount from
year-to-year. This is the very first time they would have our odometer
readings so I can only assume that they would average it over all the
years since the car was purchased.

------

California Considering New Mileage Verification Rules
May 31, 2006

Insurance brokers and agents could be required to verify odometer
readings for new and renewal automobile insurance policies under
amendments the California Department of Insurance (CDI) has proposed to
its personal automobile rating factor regulations.

CDI has proposed amending Section 2632.5, of the California Code of
Regulations, to specify how insurers may-and may not-verify estimated
annual mileage. Under Prop. 103, annual mileage is second in importance
only to driving safety record in the weight insurers may assign in
establishing personal auto insurance rates.

Under the CDI proposal, new applicants would be required to estimate
their annual mileage and provide insurers "reasonable information
necessary to support the estimate." "Reasonable information" would be
defined to mean, "the location of the applicant's workplace if the
vehicle is used for commute purposes, the number of days per week the
vehicle is used for commuting, an estimate of the number of miles driven
for pleasure or other purposes, the approximate total number of miles
driven the previous year, and the reason for any differences in the
estimate for the upcoming year and the miles driven the previous year."

Insurers would be permitted to require applicants to provide their
current odometer reading, or to obtain the last odometer reading from
the California Department of Motor Vehicles smog certification program.

The proposed regulation further states, however, that "If an insurer
markets using an independent or captive agency system, and an applicant
meets with an agent in connection with the insurance application, the
insurer may require the agent to verify the odometer reading of the
vehicle to be insured under the policy, and the applicant shall allow
the agent to do so."

If an applicant fails to provide or permit an agent to verify the
odometer reading, if the insurer has no other means reasonably to
estimate annual mileage, and if the insurer has clearly indicated the
consequences of not providing that information, the insurer may issue
the policy using a "default annual mileage figure, which has been filed
with and approved by the Commissioner."

Insurers would be prohibited from changing the mileage estimate provided
without notifying the applicant of that change and providing at least 15
days from mailing that notice, to challenge the insurer's determination
under the proposed regulations. Insurers could request, but not require,
an applicant to provide prior documentation, such as prior vehicle
maintenance records or prior smog certificates. Insurers could not
require an applicant to provide information from a prior insurer to
confirm mileage estimated or driven.

A conference call workshop was held May 25, in which insurers argued for
greater flexibility in deciding whether and how frequently to request
documentation for mileage estimates. IBA West will be providing
testimony on the proposal at a public hearing, June 13, at CDI offices
in San Francisco at 45 Fremont Street.

A copy of the proposed regulations appears below:

STATE OF CALIFORNIA
DEPARTMENT OF INSURANCE
45 Fremont Street, 21st Floor
San Francisco, CA 94105
RH06091489 April 14, 2006
PROPOSED REGULATION TEXT1
Mileage Verification
Section 2632.5 Rating Factors.

(c) An insurer's class plan, and all rates and premiums determined in
accordance therewith, shall utilize the following rating factors (the
"Mandatory Factors") for bodily injury liability, property damage
liability, medical payments, uninsured motorist, collision, and
comprehensive coverages:

(1) ....
(2) "Second Mandatory Factor" as used in Subchapter 4.7, is the number
of miles he or she drives annually, per California Insurance Code
Section 1861.02(a)(2). This factor means the estimated annual mileage
for the insured vehicle during the 12 month period following the
inception of the policy. Insurers may not retroactively adjust premiums
based on actual miles driven unless notice is provided to the policy
holder prior to the effective date of the policy. Estimated annual
mileage shall be determined only as follows:
(A) For new business:
(i) At the inception of a policy, an insurer shall require an applicant
to provide the miles he or she expects to drive the insured vehicle
during the 12 month period following policy inception, and reasonable
information necessary to support the estimate. "Reasonable information"
consists of the location of the applicant's workplace if the vehicle is
used for commute purposes, the number of days per week the vehicle is
used for commuting, an estimate of the number of miles driven for
pleasure or other purposes, the approximate total number of miles driven
the previous year, and the reason for any differences in the estimate
for the upcoming year and the miles driven the previous year. Except as
otherwise set forth in this section, an insurer shall use the
applicant's estimated annual mileage;
(ii) To substantiate the estimated annual mileage, an insurer may
require all applicants to provide, at policy inception, the current
odometer reading of the vehicle to be insured or the insurer may obtain
the odometer reading from the California Department of Motor Vehicles
smog certification program;
(iii) If an insurer markets using an independent or captive agency
system, and an applicant meets with an agent in connection with the
insurance application, the insurer may require the agent to verify the
odometer reading of the vehicle to be insured under the policy, and the
applicant shall allow the agent to do so;
(iv) If an applicant does not provide the information set forth in (i)
and (ii) above, and the insurer has no other means reasonably to
estimate the miles to be driven during the 12 month period following
inception of the policy, and the insurer has clearly indicated the
consequences of not providing that information, the insurer may issue
the policy using a default annual mileage figure, which has been filed
with and approved by the Commissioner. Upon receipt of the information
set forth in (i) and (ii) above, the policy shall be rated using that
information. The insurer may choose to re-rate all policies as of the
date it receives the information, or as of policy inception. However, an
insurer shall apply the same method for every policy.
(v) All mileage rating rules that direct the selection of a mileage
rating relativity shall be filed with and approved by the Commissioner.
This includes use of multiple mileage rating bands and use of default
and/or average mileage rating relativities.
(vi) In no event shall an insurer rate a policy unilaterally changing
the mileage estimate provided without notifying the applicant of that
change and providing the applicant a reasonable opportunity, no less
than fifteen days from the date of mailing of that notice, to challenge
the insurer's determination.
(vii) An insurer may request but shall not require an applicant to
provide prior documentation, such as prior vehicle maintenance records
or prior smog certificates, in order to confirm mileage driven because,
for a variety of reasons, applicants may not have access to this
documentation.
(viii) In no event shall an insurer require an applicant to provide
information from a prior insurer to confirm mileage estimated or driven.
(B) For renewal business:
(i) Prior to policy renewal, an insurer shall require a policyholder to
provide the miles he or she expects to drive the insured vehicle during
the 12 month period following policy inception, and reasonable
information necessary to support the estimate. "Reasonable information"
consists of the location of the applicant's workplace if the vehicle is
used for commute purposes, the number of days per week the vehicle is
used for commuting, an estimate of the number of miles driven for
pleasure or other purposes, the approximate total number of miles driven
the previous year, and the reason for any differences in the estimate
for the upcoming year and the miles driven the previous year. Except as
otherwise set forth in this section, an insurer shall use the
policyholder's estimated annual mileage;
(ii) To substantiate the estimated annual mileage, an insurer may
require all policyholders to provide, at policy renewal, the current
odometer reading of the vehicle to be insured or the insurer may obtain
the odometer reading from the California Department of Motor Vehicles
smog certification program;
(iii) If an insurer markets using an independent or captive agency
system, and a policyholder meets with an agent in connection with policy
renewal, the insurer may require the agent to verify the odometer
reading of the vehicle insured under the policy, and the policyholder
shall allow the agent to do so;
(iv) If a policyholder does not provide the information set forth in (i)
and (ii) above and the insurer has no other means reasonably to estimate
the miles to be driven during the 12 month period following renewal of
the policy, and the insurer has clearly indicated the consequences of
not providing that information, the insurer may renew the policy using a
default annual mileage figure, which has been filed with and approved by
the Commissioner. Upon receipt of the information set forth in (i) and
(ii) above, the policy shall be rated using that information. The
insurer may choose to re-rate all policies as of the date it receives
the information, or as of policy inception. However, an insurer shall
apply the same method for every policy.
(v) All mileage rating rules that direct the selection of a mileage
rating relativity shall be filed with and approved by the Commissioner.
This includes use of multiple mileage rating bands and use of default
and/or average mileage rating relativities.
(vi) In no event shall an insurer rate a policy unilaterally changing
the mileage estimate provided without notifying the policyholder of that
change and providing the policyholder a reasonable opportunity, no less
than fifteen days from the date of mailing of that notice, to challenge
the insurer's determination.
(vii) An insurer may request but shall not require a policyholder to
provide prior documentation, such as prior vehicle maintenance records
or prior smog certificates, in order to confirm mileage driven because,
for a variety of reasons, policyholders may not have access to this
documentation.
(viii) In no event shall an insurer require a policyholder to provide
information from a prior insurer to confirm mileage estimated or driven.

Authority cited: Section 1861.02, Insurance Code; and CalFarm Insurance
Company v. Deukmejian (1989) 48 Cal.3d 805. Reference: Sections 1861.02,
1861.05, 11628 and 11628.3, Insurance Code.

Find this article at:
http://www.insurancejournal.com/news...5/31/68968.htm


It could be a sneaky, devious way for the California
Commies to get the mileage information on the people
to use for taxation purposes. It would be much easier
for the government to get the insurance companies to
collect this information because a private company
can do it much more efficiently and accurately than
any government agency saddled with Affirmative Action
morons. If you can tax someone, you can control them.
The California Commies want to control the peoples
ability to move about and travel long distances. I
can see mileage rationing for California citizens as
the next move of the Commies.

TDD