Hi All,

For whatever energy saving get from my "double pane"
windows, it can not make up for the expense of having
to replace them every ten years or so.

Are there any single pane replacements for failed
double pane windows? Anything close to the energy savings
with out all the repair costs?

Many thanks,
-T

Todd wrote:
Hi All,

For whatever energy saving get from my "double pane"
windows, it can not make up for the expense of having
to replace them every ten years or so.

Are there any single pane replacements for failed
double pane windows? Anything close to the energy savings
with out all the repair costs?

Many thanks,
-T
Hi,
Doulbe pane is two single pane. Both are broken? You must live in very
mild climate. We need double pane minimu, triple pane usually.

On Jan 25, 10:59�pm, Todd wrote:
Hi All,

� � For whatever energy saving get from my "double pane"
windows, it can not make up for the expense of having
to replace them every ten years or so.

� � Are there any single pane replacements for failed
double pane windows? �Anything close to the energy savings
with out all the repair costs?

Many thanks,
-T

locally a glass company replaces the 2 pane sealed units. you take the
assembly frame and glass in by 8 am, pick up after 3 pm. 80 bucks for
a large picture window, half of a double hung 65 bucks.

are you replacing the entire window every time a pane leaks?

wrote:
On Jan 25, 10:59�pm, Todd wrote:
Hi All,

� � For whatever energy saving get from my "double pane"
windows, it can not make up for the expense of having
to replace them every ten years or so.

� � Are there any single pane replacements for failed
double pane windows? �Anything close to the energy savings
with out all the repair costs?

Many thanks,
-T

locally a glass company replaces the 2 pane sealed units. you take the
assembly frame and glass in by 8 am, pick up after 3 pm. 80 bucks for
a large picture window, half of a double hung 65 bucks.

are you replacing the entire window every time a pane leaks?

No, can't afford it. They look like crap with all the condensation
between the two windows. I figure that when I get embarrassed
enough by the way they look, I will finally do something about it.
I was thinking if there was a single pane solution, I'd just
get it done once and be done with it.

-T

Tony Hwang wrote:
Todd wrote:
Hi All,

For whatever energy saving get from my "double pane"
windows, it can not make up for the expense of having
to replace them every ten years or so.

Are there any single pane replacements for failed
double pane windows? Anything close to the energy savings
with out all the repair costs?

Many thanks,
-T
Hi,
Doulbe pane is two single pane. Both are broken? You must live in very
mild climate. We need double pane minimu, triple pane usually.

Just look like hell. I was thinking maybe some genius had
come up with a special material that had the effect.

On 1/25/2009 7:59 PM Todd spake thus:

For whatever energy saving get from my "double pane"
windows, it can not make up for the expense of having
to replace them every ten years or so.

Are there any single pane replacements for failed
double pane windows? Anything close to the energy savings
with out all the repair costs?

Yes. I assume you're talking about window sashes he if they're fixed
windows, you'll have to have the glass people come out to your house.

Take the sash to a door and window place and have it single-glazed. Simple.

There's not a hell of a lot of difference in the R-values between single
and double-glazed windows. Every little bit helps, of course, but it's
not as if your house is going to turn into a freezer (or an oven) if you
use single glazing. I actually think double-glazing is highly overrated.


--
Made From Pears: Pretty good chance that the product is at least
mostly pears.
Made With Pears: Pretty good chance that pears will be detectable in
the product.
Contains Pears: One pear seed per multiple tons of product.

(with apologies to Dorothy L. Sayers)

David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 1/25/2009 7:59 PM Todd spake thus:

For whatever energy saving get from my "double pane"
windows, it can not make up for the expense of having
to replace them every ten years or so.

Are there any single pane replacements for failed
double pane windows? Anything close to the energy savings
with out all the repair costs?

Yes. I assume you're talking about window sashes he if they're fixed
windows, you'll have to have the glass people come out to your house.

Take the sash to a door and window place and have it single-glazed. Simple.

There's not a hell of a lot of difference in the R-values between single
and double-glazed windows. Every little bit helps, of course, but it's
not as if your house is going to turn into a freezer (or an oven) if you
use single glazing. I actually think double-glazing is highly overrated.


spoken like a guy who's never had a double paned window.... There IS a
difference. a HUGE difference.

s

On 1/25/2009 8:45 PM Steve Barker TB spake thus:

David Nebenzahl wrote:

On 1/25/2009 7:59 PM Todd spake thus:

For whatever energy saving get from my "double pane"
windows, it can not make up for the expense of having
to replace them every ten years or so.

Are there any single pane replacements for failed
double pane windows? Anything close to the energy savings
with out all the repair costs?

Yes. I assume you're talking about window sashes he if they're fixed
windows, you'll have to have the glass people come out to your house.

Take the sash to a door and window place and have it single-glazed. Simple.

There's not a hell of a lot of difference in the R-values between single
and double-glazed windows. Every little bit helps, of course, but it's
not as if your house is going to turn into a freezer (or an oven) if you
use single glazing. I actually think double-glazing is highly overrated.

spoken like a guy who's never had a double paned window.... There IS a
difference. a HUGE difference.

I didn't say it doesn't make *any* difference: read what I wrote.

Here's a site with comparative R-values for various window types:
http://www.progress-energy.com/custs...y/BUILD001.asp

Here's the relevant info from that site:

type winter summer
--------------------------------
Single-pane 0.9 0.96
Double-pane
.25" air space 1.72 1.64
.5" air space 2.04 1.78
Triple-pane
.25" air space 2.56 2.27
.5" air space 3.22 2.56

The good thing is that double-glazing *almost* doubles the window's
R-value, and triple-glazing almost triples it.

The bad thing is that the R-value is low in any case. Windows, even
triple-glazed ones, are heat-losers (or non-keepers-out in summer).
Compare these R-values to that of an insulated wall, for example, which
will typically be anywhere from R-16 to R-22.

So maybe not that big a deal after all.


--
Made From Pears: Pretty good chance that the product is at least
mostly pears.
Made With Pears: Pretty good chance that pears will be detectable in
the product.
Contains Pears: One pear seed per multiple tons of product.

(with apologies to Dorothy L. Sayers)

On 1/25/2009 9:00 PM David Nebenzahl spake thus:

type winter summer
--------------------------------
Single-pane 0.9 0.96
Double-pane
.25" air space 1.72 1.64
.5" air space 2.04 1.78
Triple-pane
.25" air space 2.56 2.27
.5" air space 3.22 2.56

The good thing is that double-glazing *almost* doubles the window's
R-value, and triple-glazing almost triples it.

I should have said almost doubles/triples in summer, slightly more than
doubles/triples in winter.


--
Made From Pears: Pretty good chance that the product is at least
mostly pears.
Made With Pears: Pretty good chance that pears will be detectable in
the product.
Contains Pears: One pear seed per multiple tons of product.

(with apologies to Dorothy L. Sayers)

On Jan 25, 11:00*pm, David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 1/25/2009 8:45 PM Steve Barker TB spake thus:







David Nebenzahl wrote:

On 1/25/2009 7:59 PM Todd spake thus:

* * For whatever energy saving get from my "double pane"
windows, it can not make up for the expense of having
to replace them every ten years or so.

* * Are there any single pane replacements for failed
double pane windows? *Anything close to the energy savings
with out all the repair costs?

Yes. I assume you're talking about window sashes he if they're fixed
windows, you'll have to have the glass people come out to your house.

Take the sash to a door and window place and have it single-glazed. Simple.

There's not a hell of a lot of difference in the R-values between single
and double-glazed windows. Every little bit helps, of course, but it's
not as if your house is going to turn into a freezer (or an oven) if you
use single glazing. I actually think double-glazing is highly overrated.

spoken like a guy who's never had a double paned window.... * There IS a
difference. *a HUGE difference.

I didn't say it doesn't make *any* difference: read what I wrote.

Here's a site with comparative R-values for various window types:http://www.progress-energy.com/custs...efficiency/CA/...

Here's the relevant info from that site:

* *type * * * * * * winter summer
--------------------------------
* *Single-pane * * * *0.9 * 0.96
* *Double-pane * * * * *
* * *.25" air space *1.72 * 1.64
* * *.5" air space * 2.04 * 1.78
* *Triple-pane * * * * *
* * *.25" air space *2.56 * 2.27
* * *.5" air space * 3.22 * 2.56

The good thing is that double-glazing *almost* doubles the window's
R-value, and triple-glazing almost triples it.

The bad thing is that the R-value is low in any case. Windows, even
triple-glazed ones, are heat-losers (or non-keepers-out in summer).
Compare these R-values to that of an insulated wall, for example, which
will typically be anywhere from R-16 to R-22.

So maybe not that big a deal after all.

--
Made From Pears: Pretty good chance that the product is at least
mostly pears.
Made With Pears: Pretty good chance that pears will be detectable in
the product.
Contains Pears: *One pear seed per multiple tons of product.

(with apologies to Dorothy L. Sayers)- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Research payback and energy savings the numbers are there, air
infiltration is something you have not considered. If you figure
LowEargon its much higher. You want real insulation, look at Alpen or
Loewen R 7 windows.

In article m,
David Nebenzahl wrote:



Here's a site with comparative R-values for various window types:
http://www.progress-energy.com/custs...y/CA/library/B
UILD001.asp

Here's the relevant info from that site:

type winter summer
--------------------------------
Single-pane 0.9 0.96
Double-pane
.25" air space 1.72 1.64
.5" air space 2.04 1.78
Triple-pane
.25" air space 2.56 2.27
.5" air space 3.22 2.56

The good thing is that double-glazing *almost* doubles the window's
R-value, and triple-glazing almost triples it.

The bad thing is that the R-value is low in any case. Windows, even
triple-glazed ones, are heat-losers (or non-keepers-out in summer).
Compare these R-values to that of an insulated wall, for example, which
will typically be anywhere from R-16 to R-22.

So maybe not that big a deal after all.

Well, this is very interesting. What do you think this means from a
heating/cooling cost perspective? If walls are so good that the heat
transfer through them is negligible, then most of the energy devoted to
climate control in the home goes to combat window losses. So, doubling
the R value, would halve the heating or cooling costs.

Now before you literalists start abusing your keyboards, I'm just
thinking aloud, chewing on the logic, and *intentionally*
oversimplifying for the sake of reason. I know there is heat loss
through walls, floors, ceilings, the opening of doors, and that window
you leave cracked in the bathroom.

But how big of a role do windows really play, and does going from a tiny
little R1 to a tiny little (but still double) R2 matter much, or not,
and why?

(As for the OP replacing windows every ten years due to condensation,
maybe buy a better brand. Good ones should last forever if you don't
break them.)

On 1/25/2009 11:08 PM Smitty Two spake thus:

In article m,
David Nebenzahl wrote:

Here's a site with comparative R-values for various window types:
http://www.progress-energy.com/custs...y/CA/library/B
UILD001.asp

Here's the relevant info from that site:

type winter summer
--------------------------------
Single-pane 0.9 0.96
Double-pane
.25" air space 1.72 1.64
.5" air space 2.04 1.78
Triple-pane
.25" air space 2.56 2.27
.5" air space 3.22 2.56

The good thing is that double-glazing *almost* doubles the window's
R-value, and triple-glazing almost triples it.

The bad thing is that the R-value is low in any case. Windows, even
triple-glazed ones, are heat-losers (or non-keepers-out in summer).
Compare these R-values to that of an insulated wall, for example, which
will typically be anywhere from R-16 to R-22.

So maybe not that big a deal after all.

Well, this is very interesting. What do you think this means from a
heating/cooling cost perspective? If walls are so good that the heat
transfer through them is negligible, then most of the energy devoted to
climate control in the home goes to combat window losses. So, doubling
the R value, would halve the heating or cooling costs.

That depends, of course, on the number and size of windows, and the
proportion of window area to wall area in your house. (Well, plus window
orientation, prevailing wind direction, etc., but let's keep it simple.)

If your house was all windows, then yes, you might come close to halving
heating or cooling costs by going from single to double-glazed windows.

If a room is mostly wall, then ... you get the idea.

(As for the OP replacing windows every ten years due to condensation,
maybe buy a better brand. Good ones should last forever if you don't
break them.)

Recently replaced a client's Marvin double-glazed window whose seals had
failed and were badly clouded. So no, they don't last forever.


--
Made From Pears: Pretty good chance that the product is at least
mostly pears.
Made With Pears: Pretty good chance that pears will be detectable in
the product.
Contains Pears: One pear seed per multiple tons of product.

(with apologies to Dorothy L. Sayers)

In article m,
David Nebenzahl wrote:

On 1/25/2009 11:08 PM Smitty Two spake thus:



Well, this is very interesting. What do you think this means from a
heating/cooling cost perspective? If walls are so good that the heat
transfer through them is negligible, then most of the energy devoted to
climate control in the home goes to combat window losses. So, doubling
the R value, would halve the heating or cooling costs.

That depends, of course, on the number and size of windows, and the
proportion of window area to wall area in your house. (Well, plus window
orientation, prevailing wind direction, etc., but let's keep it simple.)

If your house was all windows, then yes, you might come close to halving
heating or cooling costs by going from single to double-glazed windows.

If a room is mostly wall, then ... you get the idea.



But, if my suggestion: "If walls are so good that the heat transfer
through them is negligible, then most of the energy devoted to climate
control in the home goes to combat window losses" is true, then the
window to wall ratio doesn't matter so much.

Well, this is very interesting. What do you think this means from a
heating/cooling cost perspective? If walls are so good that the heat
transfer through them is negligible, then most of the energy devoted
to
climate control in the home goes to combat window losses. So,
doubling
the R value, would halve the heating or cooling costs.

There is also the ceiling. Heat rises which is why requirements for
ceiling
insulation are so much higher than for walls. If most of the heat is
lost
through ceilings then walls and windows don't matter that much.
Anyone
know what percentage is lost through ceilings?

Our house was built during the "energy crisis" of the late '70s. It
was
common in this area to reduce the number of windows. One consequence
is the need for more artificial lighting to offset the lost natural
light. Also,
window blankets were sold to cover your windows at night to reduce
heat
flow. I'm sure they are still available.

Gary

On Jan 26, 12:04*am, David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 1/25/2009 9:00 PM David Nebenzahl spake thus:

* *type * * * * * * winter summer
--------------------------------
* *Single-pane * * * *0.9 * 0.96
* *Double-pane * * * * * *
* * *.25" air space *1.72 * 1.64
* * *.5" air space * 2.04 * 1.78
* *Triple-pane * *
* * *.25" air space *2.56 * 2.27
* * *.5" air space * 3.22 * 2.56

The good thing is that double-glazing *almost* doubles the window's
R-value, and triple-glazing almost triples it.

I should have said almost doubles/triples in summer, slightly more than
doubles/triples in winter.


And that equates to "not a hell of a lot of difference in R values?
I agree with Steve. Perhaps thouguh it explains some of your other
bizarre views.




--
Made From Pears: Pretty good chance that the product is at least
mostly pears.
Made With Pears: Pretty good chance that pears will be detectable in
the product.
Contains Pears: *One pear seed per multiple tons of product.

(with apologies to Dorothy L. Sayers)

On Jan 25, 8:04*pm, Tony Hwang wrote:
Todd wrote:
Hi All,

* *For whatever energy saving get from my "double pane"
windows, it can not make up for the expense of having
to replace them every ten years or so.

* *Are there any single pane replacements for failed
double pane windows? *Anything close to the energy savings
with out all the repair costs?

Many thanks,
-T

Hi,
Doulbe pane is two single pane. Both are broken? You must live in very
mild climate. We need double pane minimu, triple pane usually.

I replaced two somewhere around 20 years ago and haven't had them fail
yet. One failed the first year but they replaced it at no charge.

Harry K

On Jan 26, 10:20�am, Harry K wrote:
On Jan 25, 8:04�pm, Tony Hwang wrote:





Todd wrote:
Hi All,

� �For whatever energy saving get from my "double pane"
windows, it can not make up for the expense of having
to replace them every ten years or so.

� �Are there any single pane replacements for failed
double pane windows? �Anything close to the energy savings
with out all the repair costs?

Many thanks,
-T

Hi,
Doulbe pane is two single pane. Both are broken? You must live in very
mild climate. We need double pane minimu, triple pane usually.

I replaced two somewhere around 20 years ago and haven't had them fail
yet. �One failed the first year but they replaced it at no charge..

Harry K- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

my double pane windows are at least 15 years old and only 3 have failed

On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 20:35:58 -0800, David Nebenzahl
wrote:

On 1/25/2009 7:59 PM Todd spake thus:

For whatever energy saving get from my "double pane"
windows, it can not make up for the expense of having
to replace them every ten years or so.

Are there any single pane replacements for failed
double pane windows? Anything close to the energy savings
with out all the repair costs?

Yes. I assume you're talking about window sashes he if they're fixed
windows, you'll have to have the glass people come out to your house.

Take the sash to a door and window place and have it single-glazed. Simple.

There's not a hell of a lot of difference in the R-values between single
and double-glazed windows. Every little bit helps, of course, but it's
not as if your house is going to turn into a freezer (or an oven) if you
use single glazing. I actually think double-glazing is highly overrated.


Not where it gets down to zero F on a regular basis. If you go single
pane you WILL need storm windows..

Get quality double glazed replacement units and they will last a lot
longer than 10 years. The good stuff uses a thermal break spacer
instead of the aluminum that was common in the past, and uses a
triple mastic seal. 3 different kinds of "glue" if you will, to seal
the glass units. Minimum of 2. he old sealed units just used one,
which had a tendancy to fail after a few years of
expansion/contraction from temperature changed. Vibration or use of a
pressure washer to clean the windows sped up the deterioration.

On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 20:13:44 -0800, Todd wrote:

wrote:
On Jan 25, 10:59?pm, Todd wrote:
Hi All,

? ? For whatever energy saving get from my "double pane"
windows, it can not make up for the expense of having
to replace them every ten years or so.

? ? Are there any single pane replacements for failed
double pane windows? ?Anything close to the energy savings
with out all the repair costs?

Many thanks,
-T

locally a glass company replaces the 2 pane sealed units. you take the
assembly frame and glass in by 8 am, pick up after 3 pm. 80 bucks for
a large picture window, half of a double hung 65 bucks.

are you replacing the entire window every time a pane leaks?

No, can't afford it. They look like crap with all the condensation
between the two windows. I figure that when I get embarrassed
enough by the way they look, I will finally do something about it.
I was thinking if there was a single pane solution, I'd just
get it done once and be done with it.

-T
Call a window company. They measure the glass accurately and order new
sealed units, which they change in less than half an hour each, with
the window in place.

You can get low E2 Argon for a very small premium over standard
glazing - and the good thermal units will last a LONG time.

On Jan 26, 1:09�pm, wrote:
On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 20:13:44 -0800, Todd wrote:
wrote:
On Jan 25, 10:59?pm, Todd wrote:
Hi All,

? ? For whatever energy saving get from my "double pane"
windows, it can not make up for the expense of having
to replace them every ten years or so.

? ? Are there any single pane replacements for failed
double pane windows? ?Anything close to the energy savings
with out all the repair costs?

Many thanks,
-T

locally a glass company replaces the 2 pane sealed units. you take the
assembly frame and glass in by 8 am, pick up after 3 pm. 80 bucks for
a large picture window, half of a double hung 65 bucks.

are you replacing the entire window every time a pane leaks?

No, can't afford it. �They look like crap with all the condensation
between the two windows. �I figure that when I get embarrassed
enough by the way they look, I will finally do something about it.
I was thinking if there was a single pane solution, I'd just
get it done once and be done with it.

-T

Call a window company. They measure the glass accurately and order new
sealed units, which they change in less than half an hour each, with
the window in place.

You can get low E2 Argon for a very small premium over standard
glazing - and the good thermal units will last a LONG time.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

yeah my old single pane windows would get covered by ice indoors
often.

R value of them must have been zero

On 1/26/2009 6:12 AM spake thus:

On Jan 26, 12:04 am, David Nebenzahl wrote:

On 1/25/2009 9:00 PM David Nebenzahl spake thus:

type winter summer
--------------------------------
Single-pane 0.9 0.96
Double-pane
.25" air space 1.72 1.64
.5" air space 2.04 1.78
Triple-pane
.25" air space 2.56 2.27
.5" air space 3.22 2.56

The good thing is that double-glazing *almost* doubles the window's
R-value, and triple-glazing almost triples it.

I should have said almost doubles/triples in summer, slightly more than
doubles/triples in winter.

And that equates to "not a hell of a lot of difference in R values?
I agree with Steve. Perhaps thouguh it explains some of your other
bizarre views.

So you think R-2 is an impressive insulation value? Compared to typical
wall insulation?

You must be one of those people who also think that trading derivatives
creates "wealth", judging by your handle.


--
Made From Pears: Pretty good chance that the product is at least
mostly pears.
Made With Pears: Pretty good chance that pears will be detectable in
the product.
Contains Pears: One pear seed per multiple tons of product.

(with apologies to Dorothy L. Sayers)