My house is about 20 years old and in excellent condition, including windows
and patio doors.

These are narrow frame black anodized aluminum sashes. I would like to
replace these window frames with dual-pane windows in order to save energy
(money).

The outside of the house is stucco and the flanges of the window sash are
underneath the stucco.

What is the cheapest DIY approach to replace single pane with dual pane
windows without ripping out the old frames.

I do not like the wide, white plastic frames. They take up space, make the
rooms darker and look cheap.

Thanks for any input


Walter
www.rationality.net
-

What is the cheapest DIY approach to replace single pane with dual pane
windows without ripping out the old frames.

I do not like the wide, white plastic frames. They take up space, make the
rooms darker and look cheap.

Thanks for any input


You probably can't, with true double-glaze, because the panes are
too thick. You MIGHT be able to replace the glass with laminated
(glass/plastic/glass) glass, which would give you some
improvement.

I looked into this many years ago. My plan was to buy double pane insulated
glass, which I could get relatively cheaply, and replace the exisitng single
panes. There was just enough room for the insulated glass if I routed out
the rabbits to make them deeper. I abandoned the idea after I did some
calculations and realized that there was no way I'd recover the costs with
reduced heating bills even though I live in Minnesota and energy
efficiencies can save a lot of money.

The fundamental problem is that the R value of the window goes from about a
1 to a 2 when you switch to insulated glass which isn't very much when you
consider the wall is about a 10. The decrease in heat transfer for the
total square footage of glass gave me a 20 year payback at natural gas
prices of the time. It isn't enough of an improvement to bother unless of
course you need to replace the window sash anyway.

I've concluded the best value is to make sure the exisitng windows and
storms are in good shape, weather stripped, and caulked.

Tom



"Walter R." wrote in message
...
My house is about 20 years old and in excellent condition, including
windows and patio doors.

These are narrow frame black anodized aluminum sashes. I would like to
replace these window frames with dual-pane windows in order to save energy
(money).

The outside of the house is stucco and the flanges of the window sash are
underneath the stucco.

What is the cheapest DIY approach to replace single pane with dual pane
windows without ripping out the old frames.

I do not like the wide, white plastic frames. They take up space, make the
rooms darker and look cheap.

Thanks for any input


Walter
www.rationality.net
-

Dual pane Low E argon are apx R 3.3 and tri-pane R 5. that along with
much less wind infiltration. Your figures are way off on payback also.
Windows are only one part of a complete system, wait till your new Ng
bills come.

"m Ransley" wrote in message
...
Dual pane Low E argon are apx R 3.3 and tri-pane R 5. that along with
much less wind infiltration.

That's ticket. heat loss comes in two forms leakage (cracks, opening doors)
and conductive losses. The big benefit of modern windows (from the
perspective of a guy who owns a 140 YO home) is getting a tighter window.
Reducing conductive losses is just icing on the cake.

YMMV

"m Ransley" wrote in message

Dual pane Low E argon are apx R 3.3 and tri-pane R 5.

For how long?

Nick

Nick what do you mean "for how long", new windows increase a houses
value, save winter and summer in utilities from R value and less air
infiltration, and the UV reduction saves everything inside from damage.
Warranties of 15 years are normal, with the new sealants introduced in
the last few years condensation may not occur for 30 years. Payback
keeps getting less as utilities go up, I see no reason to keep old
glass, unless you can`t afford new glass or it is architectural.

m Ransley wrote:

Nick what do you mean "for how long"...

How long does the argon stay in the window? I've heard as little as 5 years.

Warranties of 15 years are normal...

Covering loss of argon?

Nick

With old sealers maybe 5-20 years, who knows now how long, even so
considering all the other benefits, low E, dual pane, higher R, Uv
protection, air infiltration etc etc new is still the way to go

m Ransley wrote:

With old sealers maybe 5-20 years, who knows now how long...

People who read guarantees or outfit their windows with Schraeder valves.

Nick

(m Ransley) wrote in news:1583-435BEFF4-960@storefull-
3134.bay.webtv.net:

With old sealers maybe 5-20 years, who knows now how long, even so
considering all the other benefits, low E, dual pane, higher R, Uv
protection, air infiltration etc etc new is still the way to go



With all of those features comes a higher price. You have to figure that
in when calculating payback. In many cases the windows never pay for
themselves (in money), because they fail and have to be replaced before
the energy savings pay for the extra cost. The added comfort thogh can
be priceless.

Brad

Do a Google search under

"Marvin Tilt Pac window-sash replacement kit"

Instead of replacing the whole unit you replace the sashes.

It's your best bet.

BTW Argon stays at least 15 years unless the seals fail. It is larger
and denser than air.